I load mine with hens teeth. Since they have been easier to find than a can of trailboss.

@mattfleming86

11 ай бұрын

I feel lucky. Found a few cans at a crusty old pawn shop middle of the... times. Love my "22 magnum" AR load for critter dispatch. I usually keep one in my pocket when running the farm to pop in the chamber.

@Johnsormani

9 ай бұрын

I think they even stopped making it!

@vicroc4

8 ай бұрын

They haven't restarted the production line for it yet. Think they said another two years before they've settled the contract they halted the production line for.

@sivaratnamasabaratnam8946

3 ай бұрын

​@@JohnsormaniDoes the muzzle velocity increases above 2000 by using smokeless with19gram slug ? If no then it is hopeless rather stick to BP

@azartoorani

3 күн бұрын

چرا با متر در ثانیه نشان نمیدهی قابل فهم تر است

My first thought was with that light powder load, the bullet wouldn't have made it out the barrel. Really surprised how well it worked.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Yesterday I tested some loads with 10gr of unique and 22gr of 5744. They are a little faster but only by 100fps

"It depends", my favorite answer for everything

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Ethan, what are you doing watching breechloader content?!?! Should I be worried about you?

@Bobbycat115

2 ай бұрын

Depends???? Maybe you are onto a new Carbon source

@ILoveMuzzleloading

2 ай бұрын

@@Everythingblackpowder Gotta keep an eye on you heathens

I think that the reason that we went with the "you must never" approach on things like this is because its easier to manage from the Nanny State approach. I have run with many sticks and am just fine.

@Michael-rg7mx

11 ай бұрын

So many people are just kids who got older. They don't want to be responsible for their own decisions, so they want big government to tell them what to do all of the time. So we get an entire generation sitting in their apartment in their underwear wired into a virtual reality, singing how they want to be an Oscar Meyer weiner. Be well!!!

@KevinSmith-yh6tl

11 ай бұрын

That's for sure, That's for DANG sure!

@carlericvonkleistiii2188

11 ай бұрын

More likely, it's because most people are too stupid to understand this stuff.

@ChicanoSteve

10 ай бұрын

Always enjoy your videos Jake👍 Very informative for future projects we might do... God bless and GodSpeed!...👍👊😎

@keithmoore5306

10 ай бұрын

it's self protection from the lawyers who figured out how to sue gas can makers and win for dumb ass drunks pouring gas on a lit bonfire!!

With my .50-70 Sharps Carbine, which is a newer gun. I was using a light charge of Unique which is in most reloading manuals, and work well for the Lyman 450 grain bullet I was getting from Montana Bullet Works. I didn't have a chronograph at the time to measure it, but I can tell you that the from the recoil and shooting it, the smokeless Unique load is tame compared to a case with even only 62 grains of FFG Goex in it. The nice thing about that tame Unique .50-70 load in my Sharps is that at 100 yards it drops the bullet right in nicely on the target consistently and I doubt a deer would really know the difference exactly how fast that bullet smacks him when that 450 grain load gets there. One of the things I do when I load a case with smokeless powder each and every round since I don't load in huge volumes and I have done this for years for my own piece of mind is that I weigh all the components, the bullet, the primed case and of course the powder. I have that number written down so that when the cases are loaded, I weigh the loaded case. If that case somehow got undercharged or overcharged, it will show up there and then. Since I rarely load more than 20 cases or at the most, 50 at a time, this may take some time away from loading to do this, but it's a darn good way to make sure those cases are loaded correctly.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Excellent

I load both smokeless and BP in 45-70. I use 405 grain polymer coated bullets (SNS) in both and shoot in my 1880s Trapdoor. For smokeless, I use Accurate 5744 powder and get about 1240 fps using load data for the Trapdoor. For BP, I use my own powder (which I learned to make using your videos!) and get about 1330 fps.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it

@aaaht3810

2 ай бұрын

I also load .45-70 for my trapdoor and.50-70 for my 1871 Springfield rolling block with the Accurate 5744. Works great.

The 50-70 is a fine old timer. Elmer Keith spoke well of it, and its reliablilty for putting meat on the table. One of the biggest disadvantages to using smokles powder in antique arms intended for traditional black is, it tends to throw the sights off. I almost always get the best accuracy using black powder and loads that replicate original load data. Trail boss is a fine powder and can be tweaked a little bit for higher velocity. However, traditional black is generally much safer to use in antiques. Another great video, keep up the good work.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

@blueduck9409

11 ай бұрын

@@Everythingblackpowder I have to give thanks to you. Lots of crap on you tube, but everything black piwder is not crap!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

@@blueduck9409 thanks again

@larryward1082

3 ай бұрын

Yeah you do a very good approach to everything black powder I'm 73 years old and since I was like 10 11 years old I've been experimenting with black powder and things I shouldn't have been experimenting with but anyway I'm still alive to this day I have burned away about half of my hair once upon a Time with some black powder and that was interesting eyebrow on the right side was gone right side of my head to all the hair was gone but I survived the glasses are smoked up a little bit but anyway I learned my lessons and and I've made it to 73

@larryward1082

3 ай бұрын

And I make my own black powder

A addendum to reloading with smokeless in antique cartridge guns is to NEVER use jacketed bullets. Only use lead bullets. Jacketed bullets produce a different pressure curve that will possibly/probably result in a very bad day.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

That too

@TexasLeverGunner

11 ай бұрын

It's not that they produce a different pressure curve. It's that 9/10 they're severely undersized and allow a lot of hot gasses to escape by and it starts etching the edges of the lands in a hurry.

@PBVader

10 ай бұрын

​@@TexasLeverGunnerSeverely disagree. Ever slug a barrel? Try it with a jacketed projectile. Pressure rises more rapidly like a barrel obstruction till the jacket is swaged and moving. The reloading manuals even have hotter loads for comparable weight lead as long as it's not pushing extremes like 1300fps non gas checked or 1600fps gas checked.

@TexasLeverGunner

10 ай бұрын

@@PBVader I've been handloading and casting for over 15 years, and I shoot BPCR competitively. I'm well aware of how pressure works, and even though what you said is true, that's still not why it is not advisable to fire jacketed smokeless ammunition out of an original black powder rifle. The correct reason, is the reason I stated.

@PBVader

10 ай бұрын

@@TexasLeverGunner You could have simply said "beware of cheap steel gas cutting" and I would have been OK with that. Agree to disagree.

Great video! I use unique and 2400 in a lot of reduced, cast bullet rifle loads. (38-55, 45-70, 30-30 etc.) Although they were published loads in 50+ years ago they aren't recommended now. I think that's to compensate for careless reloaders more than anything else. The old loads shoot great.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

I’ve noticed that too. That’s why I have a lot of old reloading manuals

I'm glad that it worked out well. As for me, every time I save enough money to buy a trapdoor, the prices go up so sadly, I guess I'll never get to try this. ☹

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Don’t give up hope

Fun video to watch! Back in the 1980s-90s, for about 10 years or so, I had a Springfield contract 50-70 rolling block. The thing had an over-size bore as compared to what the bore was supposed to be. It would keyhole a bullet sized at .515 with a full load of black powder. I slugged the bore and I think it came out at .520 or so. I tried duplex loads that I got from a magazine back then, and I shot slow loads with IMR4198, SR4759, and with Unique, both of those loads were less than starting loads from the old 46th edition Lyman reloading manual. The slow loads didn't keyhole. According to my old notes, I also shot a fair amount of Pyrodex through it. I made the mistake of selling the rifle in the mid 1990s, still kick myself about that mistake.

Thank you. There are still people who have not forgotten how to use their brains.

I have a Martini-Henry MkIV that was converted to .50-70 I believe as a smith school project. The barrel is a cut down and thinned down M2 . Im able to give .50-70 the same spicy smokeless treatment the .45-70 got!

@Everythingblackpowder

8 ай бұрын

Interesting

I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge sharing. I have learnt a lot from your channel already. I admit that when I started watching this video, I got a little nervous because I thought you were going to talk about how “safe” Trailboss is. Thankfully, you didn’t go there. We have guys at our local club raving about how “SAFE” it is to use in old guns. Look at the reloading tables from ADI (the Australian manufacturer ) and you soon see that their charges of Trailboss are limited by PRESSURE not VELOCITY. For cartridges like 30/30 ( that are built for it) you can achieve considerably higher velocity from less pressure by using a slower powder. Trailboss is an extremely fast burning powder. IMO it is good for reduced power ( velocity) loads and you can get away with using it in old guns if you know what you are doing and understand how it works. You are using a very small amount of propellant which’s burns very fast to generate a safe amount of pressure but not a lot of gas ( not much chemical equals not much gas) Compare this with black powder which uses a lot of propellant, producing lots of gas but it’s slow so the pressure stays low as the bullet moves down the bbl. Also beware that you could easily double charge ( or worse) a cartridge with Trailboss. I think about it like this, those air cannon bowling ball launchers dump a ton of air behind the ball but it’s only 100 psi. It’s pushing all the way to the end of the bbl. A baseball bat delivers a heap of pressure to the ball in the blink of an eye but once it’s hit, there’s no more push. Constant gentle push vs impulse. Thanks for your work, I love your channel.

@jb-xc4oh

4 ай бұрын

I never shoot fast burning powders in my guns for the exact reasons you indicated.

The trapdoor action is actually really strong, the army converted some of them to .30-40 as a control rifle when trialing for a new rifle.

I always load for the weekest gun. So i end up with alot of 38s&w top break loads and 4570 trap door loads. That way i know i can stuff them in anything on the shelf. Also if you get hit by a bus the family doesn't have a time bomb

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Not a bad idea at all

I used to have an 1868 trapdoor 50-70, and I used IMR 4198 behind a Lyman 425 gr bullet. The old formula was 30% for black, which comes out to 20 grs. I used 20 grs and never experienced any problems. The recoil was lighter than BP, and it gave satisfying low boom.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Excellent

WOW what a blast form the past.......... I bought a trap door at a garage sale back in the early 80's and shot black powder and it worked just fine but when looking threw very old reloading books I found some data (1920-1940) and here it is /// IMR 3031 @ 36 grains with a 405 grain single grove flat point . I have been shooting this load since 1983 and about 5000+ rounds later still going strong about 1200 /1250 FPS Alan Thomas

@Everythingblackpowder

6 ай бұрын

Excellent! I’ve noticed that the older the load data the hotter the load.

@Sman7290

4 ай бұрын

If that for .45-70 or .50-70?

@gracewthomas

4 ай бұрын

45/70 @@Sman7290

I’m withholding comment as I sit back and listen to the faint sound of heads exploding over this video’s title.

Trail Boss! Love the stuff, I use it all the time. Fudds are rolling over in their graves whenever you put out a new video and I love that too! haha Excellent!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Saw an interesting video about the first smokeless powder, gun cotton, firearm. Not the label. It was an Austrian muzzle loader in the mid 1860's. They did it by putting a rod in the back of the bullet as a spacer. The gun cotton, nitro cellulose, was a fabric wrapped around the stick behind the bullet. The "cartridge" was one unit. Slide it down the barrel. Fires with a percussion cap. Worked very well and it was safe. The project was dropped when a small magazine, think bunker, blew up. They were still learning how to make it stable. I'm thinking a sabo with a rod on the back for spacing and you could have a smokeless muzzle loader.

@nevisstkitts8264

11 ай бұрын

The problem with guncotton was poor long term stability under environmental conditions. That and the Austrians hadn't figured out the thing about not storing experimental propellants in the same bunker with service propellants.

@sbreheny

11 ай бұрын

@@nevisstkitts8264 Modern single base smokeless powder is mostly nitrocellulose, which is also the main component of guncotton. Nitrocellulose is a high explosive which can detonate (which is not what you want for propelling a bullet). The trick is using additives to prevent detonation. Diphenylamine is one of the most common in modern smokeless powder. One of the first kind used was petroleum jelly (vaseline). I suspect that early guncotton had a lot of the un-nitrated cotton still present which may have retained some of the nitric+sulfuric acid mixture which was used to nitrate it, which would accelerate decomposition in storage, which in turn could make it more likely to detonate.

@nevisstkitts8264

11 ай бұрын

@@sbreheny DPA has been used since at least 1901 when "Poudre 3NBF" was developed by France. It stabilizes nitrocellulose formulations by scavenging the decomposition products generated over time. Paul Vieille invented the first smokeless powder by controlling the esterification level and thus the burn rate and reaction linearity. However, his "Poudre B" also became unstable over time because the volatile stabilizer would evaporate. This resulted in several iterations of powder formulations leading toward 3NBF. Smokeless powder still becomes unstable once sufficient DPA has been scavenged and the original powder had high nitrogen content. IMO 2NDPA provides better stabilization than DPA over long periods, but this requires a diligent design process for any specific formulation. The French avoided double base and triple base propellants and therefore were not forced to use 2NDPA for their single base approach. A great many single base propellants simply continued to use DPA, as a result.

I saw so many smokeless old revolver way weaker than a Peacemaker ,and I was thinking " what a bullshit"

Man that consistency is great, also gotta love subsonic acoustics.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

I’ve heard 22s that were louder

Good video Jake I enjoyed watching y'all plinking thank you sir

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Great stuff and thanks for taking the time to try this. Those SDs you were getting are GREAT given the fact that that little pinch of powder is rolling around in that huge case. 12 grains of Unique is what I use in 45-70 under a 400 or 535 gr 1-20 bullet. I don’t get as good an SD as you got though. Maybe I’ll have to try Trailboss.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

I had the same issue with unique

I agree with you, and have done so in mine without issue, with mostly cream of wheat filler, but very low pressure and obviously very safely.

This is really cool great video for my work break thanks man👍😁

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Some 25-30 years ago Ross Sefreid wrote into an article smokeless Reloader 15 at 30% or such of the black powder load for a given cartridge and fill the rest of the case with kapok stuffing. Lube and card the bullet. This was for large rifle cartridges. I'm just remembering so don't use that as a formula.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

I’ve read something about that too.

You are a pretty good marksman. You are also on the mark when you suggest that accountability is lacking in the current age. If the gun explodes, it is likely that the loader overloaded the cartridge. Thank you for putting together such fine content.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Thank you

1:44 "using black powder like God intended" If not so, then why did Francis Bacon give us black powder? Excellent video!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

You guys seem to have a really good time. That is some pretty country you shoot in.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Subscribed! I’m more impressed that you got all 70 grains of black powder in there. I think I get about 55 grains (by volume) of 2f and you can really hear the powder crunch down. I also just posted my 1866 trapdoor in 50-70 video on my shorts feed!

@Everythingblackpowder

9 ай бұрын

Excellent

It looks like a great deal of fun!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

It sure is

Tin star powder works great for big early bp cartridges and so does buckhorn 209 meant for muzzleloaders

From the shot to the impact reminded me of shooting my bow that far lol. Awesome video

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Thank you

Loved the video.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Thank you

Nice Video and nice consistency there with Trailboss. I was quite surprised how low you could go with the powder weight and how it remained accurate in your (probably 1:42 twist). I Used 15 grains in my M1867 Rolling Block and that was real accurate but I'll slow it down a lot more thanks to your 9.5grain experience and I want to conserve my Trailboss because, as you said, they don't make it any longer. A tub of Trailboss will cost you $1000 here in Australia compared to the pre-madness price of about $130. Blackpowder is unobtainable so it is strictly a home-made proposition where I come from. As for the maker of Trailboss (ADI), I wrote them and they claimed that they WOULD make it again but they screwed up their own manufacturing plant due to gross incompetence and it might be a few more years but they also screwed up the manufacturing of all pistol and shotgun powders and at the same time America had some supply issues and now won't sell powder to Australia so local importers are slowly swapping over to importing European powders like Vectan. In the meanwhile we buy cases of 12 gauge cartridges to extract the powder for pistols and also experiment with the lowest loads we can manage so your very nice video came at a good time and I hope others will use it. I personally swapped my main Cowboy cartridges from 44WCF to 32WCF so I only use about half the powder and I really like that little cartridge.

About not wearing ear plugs……. Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say. I remember when I visited my grandmother in town, and she dropped some serious wisdom on me. She said, “Grandson, one day some people will waste their time reading your comment.” Today is that day.

I have a couple smokeless loads for 45-70, and the one performs sub moa in my 1884, which was a pleasant surprise. I did a lot of research and interacted with the old timers at castboolit forum before I worked them up. I also use Alox on top of regular lube in the grooves just because I'm ocd about it. For a BP substitute I'm running Triple 7, dropping the charge 15%. It performs well enough if I want the smoke effects. It's plenty available and does better than Pyrodex I found.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Excellent

Awesome video. I use 10 grains of unique behind the lee 500 grain cast lead lubed with white label xlox (same as alox just cheaper and thicker so it covers easier) in a second allin trapdoor... giving me 950 fps. It's a sweetheart of a load and pretty accurate.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

I tried 10gr of unique with the Lee 450gr bullet. It worked well

Great Video! I have been playing around with smokeless in my original Marlin Ballard Pacific in 50-70. I am finding that the smokeless load I have developed is far more accurate then my best black powder load out to 300 yards. You are correct the speed of the bullet is far less in smokeless, but the fun and accuracy level is right there in shorter distances. If I was shooting at 1000 yard target, I would use black in my rifle. Keep up the good work!

@Everythingblackpowder

6 ай бұрын

Thank you

I like shooting Rolling blocks. Mine are proofed for smokeless (up to a point). I find shooting a round of smokeless after a BP session gets most of the fouling out

As long a you keep the pressure down where it belongs, preferably with a pressure curve more similar to gunpowder. They'll recoil a lot less than an equivalent BP load. As always, don't be dumb, and you'll not die from having a gun explode in your hands.

Buffalo rifle by shooters world is a great substitute for black, all one needs to do is keep velocities similar to black, and you are fine. I use home made cards and cotton to fill the gap in the smokeless 50/70 rounds I have made and shot a lot of in my 1866.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Excellent

50-70 is an awesome cartridge. Hopefully the brass starts becoming more available.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Definitely

@frankambruso70

10 ай бұрын

Starline .50 AE

that was AWESOME long distance shooting while standing, my biggest weakness is standing prone, keep ur powder dry😁

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Great video thank you 👍👍

@Everythingblackpowder

9 ай бұрын

Thank you

TrailBoss is the beginning cowboy shooter's choice. The best thing about it is it is fluffy so you have a hard time double charging it in a 45 colt or 38 special. It is intended to keep cowboy reloaders safe. Good powder for its intended use.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Yep

It's strange to me that people use very fast powder in antique firearms. You would think a higher charge of some nice slow burning powder between h110 and 8208xbr would be ideal

@billythekidd623

Ай бұрын

im lazy so i just buy triple 7 3f in bulk and make paper carts for my 44 and 50 cal rifle and drink beer while not getting a aheadache over reloading XD

450 grain bullet at the speed is still pretty nice. Basically a .45 ACP with nearly 2x the bullet weight. Black powder is best for performance in these old guns though, smokeless powder didn't even exist when that rifle was made.

Wonderfully consistent and accurate smokeless load! If one wanted reduced recoil and fouling using a powder that is low-pressure & safe in original BP firearms, APP is a viable choice. I normally shy away from subs, but in a pinch, I have used it and been pleased with the results. I load 44WCF for a friend with a late 19th century Colt Frontier Six-Shooter using Trail Boss...just over 720 FPS with a 200 grain bullet, so that is right in line with what you got in your 50-70. I use 5744 in my "Quigley" Sharps 45-70...great powder in large capacity cases, as it isn't position-sensitive, gives small ESs, even with starting loads, and it's easy to match original BP velocities (important on guns with sights regulated for the "old loads").

@sandroventania782

10 ай бұрын

Do you believe that our friend, owner of this wonderful channel, has never heard of the APP? I already told him to test it... they even say it works with flint.

@noahmercy-mann4323

10 ай бұрын

@@sandroventania782 A lot of people have only seen it sold as Shockey's Gold, but it's the same stuff. I've seen folks use it in rock locks, and it seems to work well as long as they're using real BP in the pan.

TrailBoss load sheet says IF you don’t compress it then it’s safe for all cartridges. Says it right on the sheet. I haven’t had good results with TrailBoss yet as in haven’t hit an accuracy node with anything I’ve tried it in. Doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist I just haven’t found it for that powder, bullet, primer, cartridge and firearm combination I’ve tried it in. I have learned to be cautious sharing load data and don’t share my data with everyone instead when possible which manual I got it from and the published range from that manual. I figure there’s a reason they’ve cut data back from older manuals by same companies. If I share my load it’s with someone who can realize if it’s not at start they need to work up looking for what load suits their firearm and components best.

I love all the engineers here! It wasn't designed for it

The trailers was keeping your velocity under Mach which makes it most accurate... predictable and delivering death to buffs at your range

I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers and other black powder guns for years. I recently got a conversation cylinder for one of my revolvers. I have been using some factory loaded cowboy cartridges, and now I have a bunch of empty shells. So, I decided to start reloading with smokeless powder. I was surprised to find how little smokeless powder per grains you use compared to black powder or any of the substitutes. I can see if you use 25 to 30 grains of smokeless powder in a black powder revolver, you will blow it up. With the powder that I am using, it takes between 5 and 6.2 grains for a .45 Colt cartridge. I loaded some up using a Lee dipper, and they fired way too hot for my gun. So I weighed out how much powder that scoop measured, and it was between 7.5 and 8.5 grains. Lessen learned weigh your powder.

@redtra236

5 ай бұрын

You should always weigh smokeless powder but measuring black powder by volume is generally ok

If you like Lee Liquid Alox trying mixing it with Johnson Paste Waste and Mineral Spirits 45: 45: 10. For a small batch like yours I like to dip lube. I heat some lube in a small cat food tin, get the bullets warm and dip them with plyers. It will fill the groves and lot leave much excess if your boolits are warm.

Thanks for sharing suprizing consistensy

I use Trail Boss in my 45-70s if i am deer hunting with them and need to travel . Otherwise I prefer using Black Powder. I don't want the bores to rust if I stay in a motel and can't clean them.

Great info, Jake! I've been tempted to try Trail Boss in some of my antique cartridge firearms, but since you mention that it's no longer in production, I suppose the point is moot. In my very early Winchester 1894, I have used IMR 3031 in reduced loads with a 255 grain hard cast bullet, and with delightful success. Very pleasant to shoot, and accurate as well. I once harvested a grouse at 55 paces with a shot to its head, LOL ! (Lyman tang peep sight, factory original.) Thanks for the video!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Excellent!

@Mis-AdventureCH

11 ай бұрын

IMR 3031 is excellent. It's the most accurate load in my M1884 by far. Sub MOA at 100 with standard Buffington rear sight. I replaced the original front sight with a higher blade from S&S in NY. Took about 1mm off the top with a file and she was bang on.

@kbjerke

11 ай бұрын

@@Mis-AdventureCH I use it in almost all of my rifle calibers when I don't need absolute maximum velocities. For pistol calibers I like "flammable dirt" aka Unique.

@Mis-AdventureCH

11 ай бұрын

@@kbjerke I like that, Flammable Dirt. Too true, LOL. Same here. 3031 for the long guns, Unique for the 45 colts.

Nice shooting! Nive to see someone who can think outside the box when it come to shooting smokeless powder in a black powder handgun or rifle. And everything you said was spot om on how the pressure of smokeless powder vs. Black powder work. I and my dad accidentally load black powder in 243 Winchester. Surprisingly they were super accurate. But we knew it right away when we got the poof of smoke out the end of the barrel. So we ended up pulling the bullets and reloading them with 4895. My dad and I learned learned a big lesson from this also, make sure you label the can if you put something others than what it says in it. 😂😂😂 no it not a laughing matter. But if you can't laugh about it, your not living. Love the video. Wish i would have kept my allen conversation 50/70 everytime I see one of your videos. Awesome shooting!

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Grandad always said “if you can’t laugh at yourself you can’t laugh at anyone”

@jsharp1776

10 ай бұрын

@@Everythingblackpowder agreed!

I had a cousin that would use smokeless in his 1873 Springfield trapdoor and he always loaded it a bit hot.

@denisdegamon8224

11 ай бұрын

And your cousin is still around....?

A potential danger with using smokeless powder is that it only takes a moment of distraction to double charge a case. One time in a thousand is all it takes for disaster. I have a collection of antique rifles and use Pyrodex RS in loading for them. It uses a full case of powder like black powder, is more available, and not quite as dirty or volatile. The gun still requires a good cleaning though. If you want to use smokeless, I recommend weighing the finished round to see if one is much heavier than the rest. It could indicate an overload.

@redtra236

5 ай бұрын

With trail boss powder a double charge would still usually overfill the case to the point of running over. But with many smokeless powders you are right. As far as weighing finished rounds with light smokeless powder loads there will likely be enough variance in brass weight that this is not effective.

@davidgardner863

5 ай бұрын

@@redtra236 , With rifle calibers and using the same brand of brass, the difference should be noticeable.

@redtra236

5 ай бұрын

@@davidgardner863 With a lot yeah, but we're talking about a 450 grain bullet that may have some variance in weight and probably cases fabricated from other types of cases when it comes to .50-70.

I use IMR-3031 in the 1873 springfield trapdoor under a 405gr jacketed flat point.

By gum I got a good chuckle this morning. A fad was good. My only critique if you want to call it that is, you lost the opportunity for a great punch line. Part of the fun of cleaning BP is the added spice in your life when you're significant other first detect the hint of sulfur in the air. Good video Mountain man

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Dang, I hate missed opportunities! Thanks mountain man.

I have seen others do similar with the.44 and .36 I know it can be done Still awesome 😮

Thank you.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

That reminds me of a load a bubby of mine developed for his 257 Roberts. He could hunt squirrel with it and not tear the crap out of them. It would just go pop, if you could call something like that cute. Well maybe not but it was fun as hell.

I agree 100% on your statement about people and taking responsibility :)

Even though its lighter load than a full power load it seems to still pack quite a punch, over 600 ftp. Could be great load for varmints like coyotes.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Agreed

Same boat. It can be done safely and regularly. However, most people are too lazy to do the work and get it what is called the right way

That Trail Boss might be turtle slow, but seems really consistent in both speeds and hits.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Definitely

@Jeff-sl8xz

10 ай бұрын

I don't like the trail boss powder I think it's a dirty powder and so is unique

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

@@Jeff-sl8xz They are both clean burning compared to black powder.

@reachvictoria3386

10 ай бұрын

@@Everythingblackpowder😂that’s the truth!

@nunyabidniz2868

10 ай бұрын

"Turtle slow?" Trail Boss is a fast powder, just very bulky...

I load both trailboss and 5744, but not why you think. 45 colt 6.5gr of trailboss pushing a 225gr RNFP to 750fps in a SAA clone and 900fps in a carbine keeps the leading down. 5744 is so versatile it can load ruger only 45, high speed115 and 168gr 308, and do a reduced or workup load in whatever. 5744 is slower than trailboss, but heavy pills need that for timing. It even helped me develop my 45 mongo.

Some pretty impressive shooting. I love shooting the trapdoor.👍🏻

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

In my mind it's all about pressure not powder, therefore 5 grains of smokeless Winchester is the same as 25 grains-ish of black powder......... Back around 09 I was shooting 45 colt reloads loaded by a Lee reloading machine in my 1858 Rem with conversion cylinder when one shot split my cylinder and broke the gun, one lesson learned is always stand behind someone shooting a revolver........ Another lesson learned was no more reloading with smokeless Winchester powder unless one has a top of the line reloader that will NOT accidently double charge a shell. Trouble is I cant afford a 5k reloader so the next best way to prevent double charge of powder in 45 colt is Trail Boss, now it's impossible to double charge a shell. So I bought two big jugs back then and still have most of it today, good thing to because like you say they dont make it anymore......................... Now since they no longer make Trail Boss smokeless powder, and one day I do run out of TB, and have to go back to Winchester powder, and accidently double charge another shell, and blow my gun up again...... I will sue the the gun powder industry for not making TB powder for all damages and hurt feelings, I will also sue Everything Black Powder for not giving me some TB powder and I will also blame Trump.................. Now the question is, how long will Trail Boss powder last or what is the shelf life of Trail Boss powder when it is kept in broken fridge in basement????????

The chemistry of Trail Boss is interesting, and not well known in the shooting community. It is sort of a hybrid of smokeless and black powder type chemistry. It is based on "semi-smokeless" powder chemistry developed shortly after the turn of the 19th century, IIRC it is comprised of nitrocellulose, charcoal, and a mixture of nitrates (barium nitrate sounds right to me), I don't remember is any sulfur is added but it would not surprise me. There is nothing new under the sun right? The original purpose of semi-smokeless was to control the corrosiveness of smokeless powder (the corrosiveness was actually due to corrosive primers, but it was not realized at the time. Corrosive percussion caps worked fine with black powder because the corrosive oxides were diluted by black powder residue, the semi-smokeless worked to reduce corrosion, after a fashion, for the same reason). There is an expensive black powder substitute that advertises clean burning which is similar technology to Trail Boss - its manufacturer keeps well hidden the fact that it burns clean because it is based on smokeless powder chemistry, ie it is on a fundamental level smokeless powder, in the same way that Trail Boss is.

Man, I wish there was a pound of trailboss to buy for love or money.

@user-sq6ml9ws5t

11 ай бұрын

I have 2 unopened bottles

@user-sq6ml9ws5t

11 ай бұрын

100$ a piece 😀

@rre9121

11 ай бұрын

@@user-sq6ml9ws5t 12oz?

Trail Boss is good stuff and works in a ton of different cartridges. Ever try it in a muzzleloader, probably too hard to ignite.

@KevinTownsend-hw5ih

11 ай бұрын

I forgot Trail Boss shouldn't be compressed so ignore the muzzleloader comment.

I shoot smokeless hot loads in my 1887 Winchester 12g as the action is bullet proof and the barrels are the same as on the 1893 and 1897 just have 2 more revolutions of threath and diffent cut out for the extractors. Plus i always use 70mm 2 3/4th shells without a issue.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

What’s your load?

Excellent shooting BTW! Those 50/79’s are fun to shoot, but they burn up the lead!

@karsonbranham3900

11 ай бұрын

^^^^50/70^^^^^

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Thank you

Absolutely you can use smokeless, but you’re really missing out if you do so. Takes about 80% of the fun out of shooting these old rifles. I have had two Sniders that were shot quite a bit with smokeless, and it did cause some damage to the Mk. III. The breechblock was battered to the point it jammed the locking pin in the block.

But imagine getting hit with one of those big bullets traveling at 800 fps.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

I’m sure it would be effective

unfortunately Trail Boss is no longer available but i have used a lot and it is a very good low pressure powder. Hodgdon shows data on their reloading data site.

@bunkstagner298

11 ай бұрын

P.S. good shooting very good shooting congratulations. My question is how accurate is the load no matter how fast it goes?

As usual an interesting, informative and educational video - I'm glad to say that, now I don't have to go make my own damn video! 😁

I REALLY LIKE Your Channel 😁😁😁/ U make some P. . . 🤯💨 😎🤙

I've been sitting on a 1/4 jug of trailboss for 2 years. It's sad

Great video as always Sir!! For myself, I just see that these old guns should just be shot with true black for the nostalgic purpose, but if one wants to run smokeless loads through their old gun, that’s their business, but just do it with reduced low pressure loads so as to keep your fingers and face where they currently are. When I first got my 1884 Trapdoor, I myself loaded a few reduced smokeless loads from load data for a trapdoor and they ran just fine. But today, I prefer the Black Stuff. 👍

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it

@Jeff-sl8xz

10 ай бұрын

You realize that the standard 45-70 you can buy off the shelf or could they are loaded with the old trapdoor in mind so it's loaded down because people are stupid I personally don't have a problem with a good load stupid should come with a price if you have a old gun that's questionable put it on the wall it's not worth losing any body parts

@millcreekrange

10 ай бұрын

@@Jeff-sl8xz son, I haven’t bought off the shelf ammo in many years now. Buying off the shelf ammo is for beginners anyway.

@Jeff-sl8xz

10 ай бұрын

@@millcreekrange son I have to thank you for that reference I was drafted into the Marines and sent to Vietnam people's republic of I did eight tours over there in the Highlands I arrived there in 66 so I thank you for the son comment that makes me feel good

@millcreekrange

10 ай бұрын

@@Jeff-sl8xz and Thank You Sir for your service to this Republic!!! 🇺🇸

Good video, personally I will take the more powerful BP loads over the wimpy smokeless loads. Great firearm.

I run plinking loads with trailboss in my Webley RIC 442's. Works great. But sadly, the TB has become unobtanium.

@Everythingblackpowder

6 ай бұрын

More Smokeless 50-70 Options For Trapdoors kzread.info/dash/bejne/p5mFkqaweNTJgM4.html

Trail Boss is smokeless with the umpf taken out of it. I heard if you spin the can clockwise it takes some of the umpf away and spinning it counter-clockwise adds nothing.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

😂

With these smokeless load on the long range target you can hear the hiss of the bullet as it flies away LOL!

WTH!! Dang, Im down to 4 cans of T.B. The last can that I purchased was $17.99. P.S. nice shoot'n.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

It’s too bad they don’t make it anymore

With that load of Trail Boss you have duplicated a .50 Cal pellet rifle. To my best recollection, the world's most powerful .50 cal pellet rifle was about 800 ftlbs, you may be a little south of that, depending on bullet wt.

@Everythingblackpowder

10 ай бұрын

Lol I’m not sure if that’s good or bad.

It should not be an issue for the tight lock up of 1868 trapdoor. Any gun with small moving parts or strange headspace methods will almost always fail over time.

I can hear the Keyboards just pounding away from this video. This is a very interesting subject. I agree, I am just waiting for this smokeless fad to pass, and everyone going back to black powder. Wow, the consistency of those loads. Just like you said. Taking responsibility is a thing that is rare these days. Why do I feel the crisco kid is going to be in the comments soon. 😂

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

😂

@Jeff-sl8xz

10 ай бұрын

Well this old nam vet has no desire to go back in time I don't fool around with shooting BP and have no interest in doing so but I have shot some old bp cartridges with smokeless

My gut says RUN! or WHY? But then again "I" still want one Bad!

trail boss is good but it has to be done right, Ive done 455 webley mk1 cases 50-90 sharps, 38 s&w not special, 303 british was interesting.

Lol yup i am Eagerly awaiting the return of our lord and savior the holy black that will come back to this earth and save us from the pride and arrogance of smokeless powder. Ps you are running that ol trapddoor like a champ

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Lol thank you

Is it safe? Safer than going near San Francisco with that mustache! But BP has a maximum pressure. It doesn't exactly level up, but it stops at 14,000 psi. A light load is almost near that. Steel has a tensile strength requiring 60,000 psi to tear it. Big safety margin. Smokeless powder does not have a flat pressure curve. What!!! It means that if you start with 20, then go to 22 and it goes a little faster. You go to 24 it goes a lot faster. 26 goes fast enough to blow it up. Smokeless builds an enormous pressure with very little change. It makes way more pressure then it takes to tear steel.

@Everythingblackpowder

11 ай бұрын

Yep.

Please make cork wood black powder, I want to see how it compares to balsa wood black powder in terms of burn rate, cleanliness and whether it's cheaper than balsa.

@Everythingblackpowder

9 ай бұрын

We’re working on it

👍👍👌👌