My hypothesis is that it is burning relatively speaking fast enough to get a full burn. In the rifle you are getting a full burn prior to the bullet leaving the barrel and possibly possibly slowing down.

@jacobwilbert1018

4 ай бұрын

That was my thought as well. The powder has consumed itself, expended all of its energy n as the pressure curve is falling the rest of the barrel is creating drag. I dont know, thats just my reloaders guess at first glance

@aaronsantics1470

4 ай бұрын

Somewhere between the revolver barrel and the rifle barrel is a ideal length for that specific charge.

@TiglathPileser3

4 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same.

@jamescooper2618

4 ай бұрын

I believe this could be the answer. I was thinking the same.

@grannypanties4214

4 ай бұрын

I’m of the same mind

The key to understand is average pressure along barrel. Faster nitro powder raises pressure much faster, so peak pressure is closer to the breech end and in shorter barrel it provides more gain in total energy transfer from hot gases to the bullet. If we draw an graph pressure vs X, where X is bullet coordinate (0 = breech, max = muzzle), the area below this line is work of hot gases providing kinetic energy to the bullet. If we rise pressure faster in shorter barrel we'll have bigger advantage.

My only thought is that maybe in the rifle, the powder has completely burned long before the bullet has reached the end the barrel, and drag from the bullet has caused it to slow down. I've seen this happen in smokeless loads. As the barrel gets longer, the speed increases until the length reaches a certain point, and then the velocity starts to decrease. This is just a guess. Too bad you don't have access to a trapper levergun in 45 colt 16" barrel, then you see if this has any credence.

Keith was truly, one of a kind. Great info. Thanks.

As in several other comments, I think the powder is burned before the bullet is leaving the barrel. What I didn't see others mention, is that usually results in a very accurate load. That's why a lot of old target rifles had 24" to 30" barrels on them. It allowed some of the harmonics to settle down before the bullet exits the barrel. I'm anxious to see some of the targets from this load. Very impressed with your results from the pistol!

Jake makes his channel the most interesting to watch and learn from The TP experiment was top notch 😊

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Deminishing returns. Faster powder (smokeless) helps with igniting all powder more completely and suddenly which explains the bump in performance in the revolver, but when there is 4 times as much barrel it isn’t necessarily as much of an advantage. I think it’s less like a mixture of powders and more like a supercharged primer.

In physics, I often observed in the last year as I started studying Chemistry, that in most real world applications you wont see a linear relation between two dimensions across your whole measurement. You can often observe a proportional relationship within a certain range and in that range you can just use your linear model and expect to observe the results you calculate, beyond that range you cannot make any predictions. What I hypothesize is that at least one rate of change during the firing process (maybe the powder burning itself, or the Volume or temperature) is exponential or logarithmic so that the rate at which pressure is built or the maximum pressure is achieved isn't quite linear which isn't as obvious for shorter barrel lenghts but at some point the deviation from linear is greater than the standard error.

These duplex loads are one fascinating can of worms! Especially with such a versatile cartridge as .45 colt. Looking forward to more testing!

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Very much enjoy your clips. Years ago I loaded duplex BPRC with slow rifle powder (3031 imr) in a 10%to full charge BP loads (GOEX) simply to keep a clean bore for repeated shots as long as I cared to shoot. Mine were never intended for more power as I usually shot vintage firearms and wanted to preserve the gun. In Alaska I hunted with my duplex loads and the cleanliness for immediate reloads was paramount to saving ones butt at times. Anyhow keep up the good work and I'll keep watching. Nope don't want to "go make my own damn video" 😂

@christiandore7518

4 ай бұрын

Helping to keep a clean burn in large volume BPC was my understanding of duplex loads, not for more power.

I am glad I found this channel. The shorts really are paying off when it comes to new, hopefully like-minded viewers. Ready to see that 100k line crossed.

I love that it dont matter what "people say" you like to see things for yourself. My kinda people 👍👍👍

I’m scratching my head on the velocity of the rifle, being a lil slower than i expected as well. Still, its an improvement, and cleaner than the all bp assembled rnds. I was impressed with the ruger velocities! Thank you for your experiments and testing! Great videos!

@davefellhoelter3299

4 ай бұрын

I was thinking similar. "I Think?" it's a Lead metallurgy and barrel length "thing" as 1300ish looks to be the limits of history and Lead projos. thats at or above MACH 1depending.

Thank you Jake. Love your videos. keep them coming.

Outstanding as usual 👍

Hypothesis: You're getting a fast spike from the smokeless followed by the BP pressure curve. In the pistol, the projectile accelerates and is out of the barrel quickly with both DB and BP loads, so it takes great advantage of that initial pressure curve. In the rifle, there's much more dwell so the BP curve tailing off can have it's full effect on projectile acceleration, so the initial smokeless spike is less influential on the muzzle velocity. I'll put it another way... it's all about area under the curve. Since the curve is cut short quicker with the short barrel, the smokeless component's initial curve is a larger percentage of the area under the pressure curve, so it shows more effect.

Learn more and more from you. Thanks Jake.

Great video, I love seeing these experiments.

Exactly the video I was looking for!!! I asked in regards to pistol loads and here it is

extremely compelling! very grateful to you and your crew for doing the heavy lifting for us so we can get the idea mills churning even more!! maybe a cosrser granulation of BP in the rigle duplex would yeold different results with the longer barrel?

The results in the Ruger were amazing. Also puzzled over the rifle results. I've been using duplex loads in BP ctg. rifles since the early 70's.

Thank-You!

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Very impressive results! I use 4227 at 12% max and have never had any unburned powder problems, I think the smoke trails were probably burning over powder wads or burning lube, I sometimes get tracer trails all the way to the target using full smokeless loads from wad/lube. Stay safe! Chris B.

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thanks Chris

So I am currently researching how to make late 18th early 19th century French powder and I came across a section on making brown powder like the French did during the revolution when they invaded Great Britain (and failed miserably) and they said they used straw for charcoal just food for thought in case you might be looking into making some trashy brown powder in the future lol

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Is it the straw that makes it trashy powder or something else?

@Real11BangBang

4 ай бұрын

I think it's a combination of the straw and the ratio of which the components are mixed in (79% niter, 3% sulfur and 18% charcoal) which evidently worked great for artillery. Not so much for muskets that and the fact that they were using Canon powder instead of the standard musket powder (1F) in their paper cartridges and Also in 1793 one of their biggest powder mills in France mysteriously exploded and they lost access to their roller presses for several years so it was also non-compressed​@@Everythingblackpowder

@Real11BangBang

4 ай бұрын

But it was very well documented to be pretty bad lol

I’m loving these videos on duplex loads and how to safely load smokeless!🙏

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it

Not sure how I missed this but I did I'm glad I found it, thank you thank you thank you

@Everythingblackpowder

3 ай бұрын

Thank you

Great video Sir. I’m definitely going to be trying a duplex load for my 44-40’s now.

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Great content as always. 👌

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Very cool.

I agree with mathewfox3468. Your marlin barrel may also be just long enough to run out of pressure an inch or so early allowing drag from the rifling.

Very interesting results, and method in general. You’ve caught my interest with this, and I’m gonna read into it some more. Sizing those 45/70 bullets down has my interest for general loading. Looks like it has a pretty wide meplat, so I’m curious now how well they do over smokeless powder. Good stuff!

I don't know what the significance of it will be, but its important to know that smokeless and BP burn fundamentally differently. burning BP spreads through the powder stack by hot particles blowing off the surface of one grain and igniting the next. Smokeless burns by the hot hot gasses rushing through the case. Having those gasses running through the case and not being choked by crumpling powder or having to play combustion ping-pong to light all the powder means its all lighting at once and burning together. I bet you could see huge improvements in something like 45-70 (or maybe 45-100) if you had been using 3f powder, where the powder stack is "tall"/"long" compared to the size of the grains. If you have a gun that can handle some extra pressure, That's what I would try next. edit: also you could try 1f, 2f, 3f, 4f powder in said .45-70 and see if there is a difference in the velocities. PPS: I bet slow powder works worst and fast powder works better. PPPS: Actually this is all coming together in my mind. What the fast powder is doing is heating up the case. Its burning super fast and heating the whole case up because its pressurizing it. Its like a fire piston except instead of trying to make the air's volume smaller, you are cramming a bunch more air (or in this case gasses from the combustion of the smokeless powder) into the piston and its being held more or less in the same volume so it gets very very hot. That is likely the mechanism that is needed to light and burn all the powder. I wish I was home so I could try this. I've got an 1895 and reload it, but I am traveling until April. Heres what the test would look like: If this is true, you should get pretty much the same velocity with all powder types in a rifle or pistol (as in there will be a rifle velocity and a pistol velocity and it won't be different using 1f or 4f).

@willardspicer1086

4 ай бұрын

^best comment here imo

It seems that Red Dot speeds up the burn rate of the black powder without much increasing the energy of the mix. That has it reach peak pressure sooner, which is why you got higher revolver velocities. It probably caused the burn rate in the rifle to be too fast. I would suggest duplexing the .303 British load with a magnum revolver cartridge like H110 or IMR 4227. Maybe even a slower burn rate smokeless.

Should be a good topic. We'll see if your results compare with mine! 👍

This is a interesting subject and want to get to know more about it. My hypothesis is that the black powder being a fast flash powder, and the Red Dot being more of a slow burning powder is why we see the performance being quite good in the revolver. And because the rifle has an extended time in the barrel, it has time to get its full burning potential out of the powder. Therefore if a Guy is could try shooting a gun of variable lengths. He could figure out exactly what the optimum length would be for a particular load. I like your idea of putting the card or wad behind the bullet so as to advert the leading of your barrel. I have learned a lot about Black powder from watching your channel. Cheers Buddy!

Interesting vid. 👍

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

My guess and just a guess is that the red-dot being a fast burning powder is really helping to overcome the launch velocity in the bisley. The longer barrel, however, the initial gain of the red-dot starter is being overcome by friction from the longer bearing surface. I'm going to try some with Unique, because I have many pounds of that. lol

Great video

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

Great video jake. Man I would love to see what going on with pressure and burn rate. One of these days love to get one of those Extremely fast slow motion cameras. I would love to see what's going on with these duplex loads

Here is a thought. In a long barrel, the burn rate (explosions) inside the barrel cancel each other out to some degree due to the burn rate difference from one to the other. Where in the short barrel the explosions complement each other before they can have a negative effect. Hence the rate of burn on variety of smokeless powder can be tested in conjunction with your black powder to see if you can sequence the explosion frequency to compound the explosion effect to that particular barrel length.

For future experiments with smokeless powder, I recommend those made by Vihtavuori as they make some really good stuff. Their N500 series of powders actually have nitroglycerin added to them for additional energy content, so they go BANG really hard.

@vicroc4

4 ай бұрын

N500 powders are all rifle burn rates, though. If they made a N510 or 520, that might work in a big magnum pistol case but not .45 Colt. N530 or 540 could be good in .303 though

The possible answer comparing the revolver against the rifle is that in straight black powder the revolver is not able to burn all the powder but when you add red dot you are getting better combustion of the black powder. In the rifle there is less difference because with the longer barrel you have time to burn all the black powder and when you add smokeless you get a small increase due to the smokeless contribution

Might have something to do with how the bullet fits the bore. Back in the 70's&80's gun mags used to say that Marlin rifling didn't like cast bullets...I don't know how true that was but my 1894 in .44mag liked em @.431. It might be worth experimenting

The addition of smokeless powder to black powder was/is to speed up the combustion of the black. Going to a slower powder wont be a great idea, you want a faster pistol powder to flash the black as fast as possible. The reason duplex loads are working better in the pistol is that black likes a longer barrel to burn completely and the small charge of smokeless is helping it combust much faster. The reason the rifle wasn't seeing proportionate gains is that it had 24'' to make use of the black in the first place so it wasn't as critical to its success as the 4-5/8 ruger. The "tracer" coming off the 303 I'm wondering if it wasnt your cardstock or else bullet lube flying off. That one as me scratching my head.

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

There was no card wad in the 303 and I was using a jacketed bullet

@snipersl270

4 ай бұрын

Now I'm scratching my head even harder.@@Everythingblackpowder

Outstanding video. I love seeing other shooters delving into the vagaries of duplex loading. All of my experience has been in the .45-70, .45-90, .45-100, and .40-70 Sharps straight. All significantly longer rifle cases. I've never tried it in any revolver rounds, although most of my .45 Colt shooting is done with black powder. As you have discovered, the chief advantage is just how relatively "clean" they shoot. This can be an advantage in the field when hunting. After all, who is going to blow tube or wipe their single shots when after game? And isn't it nice to get more than a couple of accurate shots out of a lever gun, without accuracy going to hell even before the magazine is empty? Now that you have mentioned it, I can see the same advantages in the revolver. With modern smokeless era Colts being fitted somewhat tighter than the black powder era guns, their cylinders tend to start to drag and tie up after a few cylinders full. I can see where duplex loads would help with that. Just one thing to make clear, although I'm sure you already know this (this is for the benefit of your faithful viewers). Duplex loads do not relieve us of the chore of cleaning our guns, and our cartridge cases, just as if we had used straight black powder. We are still faced with all of those issues. Duplexing only serves to make our time at the range a little less messy. Once we get home, the same cleaning procedures we suffer with straight black are still a requirement.

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

OH, I have been going to make this comment for a while now. It's great how you always smirk at the end of each video when you say "make your own damned video" ! :): ) :)

another great presentation and good stuff to think on i think @LexsLavrov1 is on track , i couldn't put it into words , my thought was after initial nitro powder pressure as the volume of barrel space starts to increase the further the weighty projectile travels the increased volume in barrel allows the pressure to start dropping , it may be more noticeable in an even longer barrel , cheers big ears from down under

Jake I have no idea what is happening in the combustion chamber and can offer no assistance in that regard. But I would like to give you three more suggestions for wood for making charcoal 1. Bamboo 2. Basswood 3. Paulownia, both Basswood and Paulownia are very light and have almost no resins or gums in them and Bamboo of course is a type of grass. It could be very interesting.

Maybe the red dot ignited a lot more of the bp in a shorter time making it burn more of it before exiting the short barrel. With the rifle length barrel, more of the bp is given a chance to ignite before the bullet leaves in a standard bp load

nice id love a .45 lever to go with my vaquero ... you got all the cool toys .. great video

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

Greetings from Apacheria in the Arizona Territories Ahe'hye'e

If you get a chance, try the same duplex formula but substitute Green Dot, and then Blue Dot, and check the difference.

My uneducated guess is that in the revolver the addition of the smokeless powder and the faster burn get the bullet up to speed with a more complete burn in the limited length of the revolver while in the rifle the addition of the smokeless there’s not as much added velocity because the rifle gets a more complete burn to begin with.

It would be interesting to see this with different bullet to powder ratios, considering this was 40 to 300 and the previous was 50 to 200 ish it could be moving the bullet early (based on smokeless to bullet ratio) and making the black powder burn better both decreasing and increasing velocity

I have been thinking about this for a while and consider I have a reasonably good reason for your surprise with .45 Colt Duplex velocity gains in Revolver versus Rifle loads / reloads… In your rifle the 3f black powder has pretty much completely burned through even in the standard black powder loads and your small(ish) velocity increase with the duplex load is down to the slightly higher pressures due to the nitro powder content. Where your short(ish) barrelled revolver is concerned however, the initial pure b.p. loads are not consuming all of that powder fully (or at least it isn’t being able to give the full pressure of it burning completely) before the projectile has left the barrel. With the Duplex Load the increase in pressures (and temperatures) in the cartridges is burning up MORE of the available black powder that isn’t being burnt up completely in the b.p. only loads, and that higher temp is giving you more immediate pressure because of this behind the bullets, hence higher velocities…. The higher pressure &?temps in particular in your Duplex Loadings is the Key here I feel….

I was traveling today and just got a chance to watch this. I think what you are seeing is that the rifle barrel is long enough to pass the point of diminishing returns. You are achieving full burn in a relatively short portion of the barrel and after that point friction begins to diminish the return you are getting by using a longer barrel. If you had a lot of money to burn you could buy guns with a bunch of different lengths between the length of that pistol and the length of that rifle and figure out what is the optimal length for that charge. I saw an article one time where they cut off a really long barrel one inch at a time and figured out the optimal length for their load. I don't have that kind of money though and there is no way I would cut up one of my guns even if I did.

Now this is going to be fun.

Fast powders like red dot will show better velocity performance in a short barrel because they burn fast and complete before exit. Slower powders will preform better than faster powders in long barrels because the barrel gives them time to complete burn before exit.

My guess is that it has something to do with the different pressure curves of smokeless versus black powder. Smokeless (like most explosives) burns faster the higher the pressure (which comes from confinement). Black powder, almost uniquely, does not. So, when you put black powder over smokeless in a short barrel, the smokeless (which burns first) creates an initial spike in pressure and a sharp initial impulse. This gets you a substantial performance gain in a short barrel, but the effect is less pronounced in a long barrel (where you want a slower ramp-up in burn). My idea also comes with a simple way to test it - load the smokeless over the black powder instead. This should then shift the pressure spike to later in the burn (but also lower the total pressure, as the smokeless is less confined), resulting in less performance out of the revolver and equivalent or better performance out of the rifle.

First of all, this is some of the most interesting gun content on KZread.. No idea why you don’t have a million subscribers… Black powder rookie question… what if you mixed up the powders instead of layered?

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you, we tried that with the 303 British we will have a video on it in a couple weeks

I know I have made many black powder loads with many modern cartridges to see the results, but never made a duplex load. Might be a fun video. 100 grains of FFG and 20 grains of titegroup should be fine in a muzzleloader lmao

Interesting, I assumed the exact opposite. I've read that during the second world war 20 mm Borsig cases often had little baggies of black powder to aid in the ignition of the smokeless main propellant charge.

0:11, me, immediately looked for the link to .303 British duplex black powder load link! OK, I'm back. I won't be using duplex loads in any of my .303's, but that was interesting. Now back to the 45 Colt Duplex Load show.

Love the vid. No chickens around here. We have to remember primers and most other flatten at a certain pressure not flatten when over pressure. We get used to cartridges having almost the same peak pressures. Most pistol cartridges max pressures wont flatten at all.

Defligration velocity. The smokeless burns faster than the black powder and moves the pistol bullet faster. However, the rifle, with the extra barrel length, can only benefit marginally from the initial higher speed burning 🔥

In the revolver you light up the Black Powder and Quickly set of by the Black. That is why you wind up with the powder almost consumed before the end of the barrel. In the Rifle you have burned the Powder and you have several more inches of barrel left for it (the bullet) to travel and slow slightly. At least that is what I have seen.

38/357? It is very interesting how different the results are in the 45. There are a lot of variables though. Larger bore, straight v.s. bottleneck, and case aspect ratio (length to diameter). There are a lot of factors to explore. Might be nice for DA revolvers.

Black Powder has a faster flame speed than smokeless hence its use in artillery shells and naval powder bags. It’s not unburned powder flying downrange.

Very interesting! Although I’m gonna be thinking on this for a while, being the amateur chemist I am, I wonder if certain smokeless powders are oxygen positive or negative when they decompose? Out of the rifle, the idea of potentially increasing the burn speed of the good ol stuff with excess oxygen around provided by the smokeless, thus consuming the entire charge prematurely and hampering its exodus to the outside world…..? Or maybe weighing the black by volume and the smokeless by weight?😂😂😂 ya I just had to throw that in again. Dang it, gonna make me start screwing around with duplex loads now and I hardly have time to tie my shoes anymore. Great job! Keep it up! By the way…… the only person allowed to use the word, “significant,” when comparing velocities is Paul Harrell😁

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Paul will have to trust me using the word significant

Just a theory, but one based in the timing calc we all do as reloaders. Bigger heat kernel faster, heavy for caliber holding ignition just a touch longer. This will support a faster burn, not necessarily a longer one. At least you weren't getting 950 from the carbine. That would be lead city.

I’d agree with several previous commenters that the smokeless accelerates combustion and significantly improves % burned powder in the 4” pistol barrel. When you go to an 18-20” barrel, you already have the real estate for all of the black powder to consume itself enhance the lowered increase in velocity is just from adding the extra energy from the smokeless powder load. I believe this to basically be the same thing. The others have stated. I have no idea why the 303 did what it did.

It would be cool to see how slower burning rifle powders would work in a rifle. The higher pressure of that smokeless may be positively effecting the cleaning

As others have pointed out, I think your 24 inch barrel may actually be too long. You may have a full combustion by 15 to 20 inches and those big 300 grain bullets with a large bearing surface may be just coasting and not gaining velocity in the 24 inch barrel. I would like to see these loads fired out of a 16 or 20 inch barrel, and even a 7 to 10 revolver to see where the point of diminishing returns lies. Keep up the good work.

Wow that's smoking fast

Excellent! I would like to try a double or triple 357 load with the 75gr Lyman 358101

The answer to your question; why proportionally better performance in short vs long barrel? Alliant is a double based powder. That is a mixture of stabilized nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose. Red dot should be about 20% nitroglycerin. By contrast bullseye is about 40%. And 2400 is maybe 4%. I’ve not looked at an MSDS in years. So this from memory. And since the sale of Alliant formulations may have changed. Interior ballistic theory. Double based powders are in essence “duplex” concoctions from the factory. While single based are just that, only nitrocellulose. Roughly speaking nitroglycerine determines relative “burn rate” or speed of the powder. The more nitroglycerin the faster the powder. Thus bullseye is faster than red dot which is faster than 2400. Burn flame front progression of nitroglycerin is a function of volumetric containment. The higher the instantaneous containment the faster the flame front progression. So. You have in essence concocted a triplex load. The 20-80 mix of nitroglycerine-nitrocellulose in the red dot. Under your black powder charge. Under a heavier than typical bullet. I’d suspect that the nitroglycerin in that charge is basically consumed before the bullet even move from the case. With resultant case head pressures which are high, but not excessive. Then the nitrocellulose and black powder burn as the bullet moves from the case and down the barrel. With resultant increasing volume as the burn continues. I’d suspect that the black powder provides the bulk of the energy in what is essentially a secondary burn in the barrel. So basically you seem to have stumbled upon a very efficient concoction suited to a shorter barrel. As opposed to the longer barrel. If you had an intermediate barrel length, say 7-8 inches, you might be able to confirm this with your chronograph. Keep in mind your dealing with some complex interior ballistics of pressure and expanding volume as it effects the burn characteristics of three disparate compounds. But your only method of measure is the velocity produced in the external ballistic. Put that load on target and you add precision from the terminal ballistic to your analysis. Theoretically, as much as I understand this subject, using something like bullseye should push observed “efficiency” even more toward the short barrel…. But you may also begin to see signs of excess pressure. As Elmer did testing the molecular integrity of the steels in his revolver cylinders upon occasion. Do be careful. I find myself looking forward to you next experiment. Please don’t thwart my entertainment by spontaneous disassembly. Fox out

The pressure impulse makes a difference in the short barrel .Powder burn rateakes the difference

what's probably going on is the smokeless is giving a more complete ignition on the blackpowder over just the primer giving you a pressure boost from a more complete powder burn in the shorter barrel kicking the velocity up where the rifle barrel the volume of the barrel length is canceling out the boost!

I think that the fast buring smokeless is causing the black powder to burn much faster than normal.

Great video, how about an updated video on making antique muzzle loading propellent.

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Working on it

Maybe the difference between the two is the rate of burn? The black powder could be getting burned up differently in a shorter barrel vs a longer one. All because of the smokeless powder addition acts as a propellant and not an explosive like black powder.

I wish I had the knowledge to make an an informed comment about the pressures and burn speed but alas, I do not. I would be interested in knowing if blending the two powders would affect the speed. I noticed that the smokeless was on the bottom, with the black powder added to the top.

It would be interesting to try a barrel in between the lengths you used.

I don't think I'll ever use duplex loads, but it is very interesting.

The red dot increases the burn speed of the 3f . So it's the speed of the combustion.

Elmer Keith would know the answer. He forgot more than all of us together will ever learn.

Interesting to see a video on this subject. I've heard of Elmer Keith doing it with the 333 OKH wildcat (30-06 necked up version) with 275 or 300 grain bullets. i honestly feel his claim of 2300 fps is a little optimistic especially with a 300 grain bullet

Maybe the cleanliness Is caused by the expansive wave of the smokeless push the residue of the BP out of the barrel, the gain un speed in the revolver Is really impressive compares to the rifle, my theory with this duplex load in longer barrel behaves like that it's maybe because the initial speed of the bullet when smokeless hits pushes fast but then speed decreases after few noches inside barrel, then the second wave of pressure from the slower buen BP starts to increase again of the bullet in the last length of the barrel, if the duplex load can be loaded safely puting first BP and over that the smokeless to see how clean it burns and how speed behaves, compared to first smokeless then BP. Maybe another test mixing both, if it's safe mixing together. As always the best !

So red dot is pistol powder because how fast it burns under pressure. You literally blow your load in faster. There is a magic sweet spot for matching the speed a powder burns to barrel length. The red dot will be done building pressure in under 10" of bullet bump. Most rifles reloading manuals, at least for the cartridges I load like 7mm mag 30/30 444 243 all publish data and pressure from a 20 inch barrel and provide rifle powders. It's a little confusing to think of using a "slower" powder to increase velocity but that's what is happening. The longer you can keep 50,000 psi pushing a bullet down a barrel the faster it exits the muzzel. Hodgedon web site has a powder burn rate chart listed. Curiosity has me wondering if the rifle 45 colt would have been better if red dot was loaded on top of 3f. Maybe it would burn a little later?

I have both the Ruger and Marlin. In my experience , drop the smokeless and up black to 35 gr. and compress. Use magnum primers. It'll be a more complete burn and cleaner.

I think, in the longe barrel needs large grains powder , then you will get high velocity

Oh, excellent video, didn't suck.

Duplex loads are a thing of the past. Triplex is what all the cool guys are doing nowadays.\

Hey could you make some duplexes duplex long colt where do you use duplex powder load with a two balls also curious will a white hot powder pellet fit into a 45lc casing if you do try to use it in a room to new army with a cartridge conversion cylinder either way I think you're a videos are incredible I appreciate your hard work

Hi guys always nice to see new videos I am kinda new to the black powder community but learning fast, I want to get into reenactment soon and I’m looking for a place to buy bag molds for a 50 , 54 , 45, 36 cal flintlock muzzleloader can’t seem to find any online I don’t know if you guys have any contacts Please let me know thank you

Great video. Could the difference be in the guns themselves? Different bore diameters and different rifling?

I use flat based bullets wherever possible I find I have significant more leading with bevel based and it doesn't seem to matter what lube gets used. It would be interesting to see the results in a smaller capacity case like a 38 special. As for the velocity spread that is definitely something that is odd. Definitely scrolling the comments to see everyone's theories

This one is easy. It's safe to say the .45 colt is operating at normal pistol pressure with this load. Well, most standard pressure .45 colt loads only get 1200 ish FPS out of a 20 inch barrel, regardless of what powder or combination thereof is used. The primary reason is barrel friction. If you can get your hands on Quickload and setup long barrel friction, you can see the how the velocity down the barrel is not a straight line. It curves and even starts to droop toward the end. The secondary reason is caliber size interacts with gas expansion. Basically, as the bullet moves down the barrel, the area the gas has to expand into increases. This expansion reduces its pressure. You need a minimum amount of pressure behind the bullet in order to overcome the friction of the barrel. Due to how geometry works, when you double the size of a circle, its area quadruples. So a big bore like .44 doesn't need twice as much gas behind it as a .22, it needs 4 times as much gas to maintain that pressure. .45 colt just can't stuff enough powder inside it to produce enough gas to maintain enough pressure to get a bullet down a 20 inch barrel before it starts losing speed. You could chop 10 inches off that barrel and lose no FPS at all.

I you want to check unburned powder you can try shooting through a hole throw multiple sheets of white paper glued to cardboard. See what kind of gunk sticks to the sheets.

So would you like to hear my theory on the rifle? Ah I guess I should have viewed the entire video first, as you asked. So at the danger of being incorrect here's my thoughts. To start with I will refer back to the percussion cap versus the modern day center fire primer heat/energy output.. so in the case of red dot it is an easy to light higher energy fast burning powder. Again 3 f also easy lite, and 30 grains max load. What I suspect is happening is complete consumption of powder with in the 7-10" range. Losing to the lack of expanding gases and friction in the What think you said was a 24" barrel. It is a high energy starter. Again I could be sticking my neck here a bit but that's my thoughts. Now a way to test it is a follow up with test loads of 2, 1.5, and 1 fg, but could be minimal change due to the lack of volume/weight of bp. Great pistol load ! Now on a different subject I took possession of my 45-55 walker this week. So it is a uberti/ kirst conversion. It one of three platforms I have chambered for it. The walker bp only, thompson center contender 10" I will load similarly to my old 12" 45-70. And an 18" 12ga to 45-55 walker barrel sleeve. The case is a .460 smith and wesson magnum case shortened by .030. I too think Jeremy's results were disappointing, however I do think I can do better. That's to be seen. The bullet of choice is going to be the same 270+ grain Mukwa bullet Jeremy tested. Mountain man

@Everythingblackpowder

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the input. I’m interested to see how your 45-55 Walker does.