Thanks for this video. I've been really hitting the bike a lot more this season than I have in the past and am looking forward to really focusing on doing some Zwift traning plans over the coming winter. My current set-up is a Kurt Kinetic RM 2 with an InRide Sensor, HRM and AppleTV running Zwift. In years past on Zwift I was just out riding the varius routes and trying to get all the route badges and just to say "saddle ready" come spring (it really does make a huge difference). But, with my renewed focus this year, I was really thinking I needed to get a "smart" trainer and was looking at a Tacx Neo 2 (LBS still has one for $1100). After reading this, it sounds like I really won't get that much added benefit for the $1100 investment of the Tacx. Seems like maybe I should try my hand at some of these training plans over the winter with my current set-up and see how it goes and decide later if the "smart" trainier is really worth it...for the ERG, etc. Thoughts? Any other hardware I need with my current set up or should I be good to go based on the above? Thanks!

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hey! Yeah so from my perspective, your use case is basically EXACTLY why I made the video. I'm not shy in saying I love Kurt fluid trainers; I think they've got excellent road feel, they last forever, they're cheap (esp used), and paired with an InRide sensor you get pretty damn accurate power data indoors. I'd first ask: do you have a power meter on your bike? I'm guessing not, since you mentioned the InRide for indoor power. Not every cyclist needs a PM for outdoor riding. If you're just going on rides with friends or group rides or whatever, you're not going to be riding 'by power,' you're going to be riding at your friends/groups' paces. That said, if you're getting into racing, or you want to start doing structured outdoor training, or you want to start using power to guide your effort levels on longer rides, then a PM is very very valuable. To that end if the second use case is you, I would absolutely take half of the $1100 you would spend on the Tacx and buy a power meter; dual sided Favero Assiomas are a popular pick. If the second use case is you, I think having a PM outdoors is valuable because then you can best leverage all that fitness you gain inside on the Kurt over winter. Okay so lets move on from there and say that you don't care about using a PM outdoors as much (or maybe you do and money isn't a factor,) and lets just get into "should you buy the tacx." to which I say... somewhere between "eh" and "sure." Undoutedly, erg mode is 'nice.' I like that I can just zone out, listen to music, whatever, and my trainer is keeping me honest and making me do the prescribed work. But like I said in the video, it's not like a 250W interval in erg mode makes you stronger than a 250w interval in resistance mode. So all that's to say: I think you should give it 3-6 weeks and see how you like training while matching power manually. You're going to have to shift and you might encounter times where you wish you could spin faster or slower a small amount and can't due to the gearing / power targets, but I wouldn't say that's a huge deal. It's an occasional annoyance. Erg mode (and a direct drive trainer in general) totally has some nice little advantages over the Kurt (no tire wear, super consistent power [though less of a factor if you don't change the resistance knob and keep your tire the same psi] and the perks of erg, but is it worth $1,100? That's a tall ask. I ultimately plunked down for the Kickr and I'm generally happy with it, but it's not life changing. 90% of your gains simply come from getting on the bike and doing the work; don't miss the forest for the trees. :)

@bashconsole

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Virtual Power Meter does same

@Ematuresco

Ай бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Hi Justin, is there an indoor bike which you recommend that has automatically adjustable difficulty ?I'd like to ride in cardio-zones without thinking about "screwing" the magnet-knob.

Thank you for the thoughtful, thorough video. I appreciate that you kept on topic, no feeble attempts at humor and made it very informative!

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Fantastic review, Justin. Thanks for posting.

Nice and honest video. Helpful for somone like me who is just getting into training with a powermeter

Thanks for this video. Very helpful and informative. I have a fluid2 and was also thinking of getting a power meter so I can also use and benefit from it outdoors.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

That's an ideal combo!

Excellent video and I went for the solution that you sugested and haven't regretted it - a luid ("dumb, non-ERG mode) trainer for "feel", and then power meter pedals. I tried two smart trainers that have electromagnetic resistance (Tacx Neo and Saris H3) and couldn't stand them, they felt terrible in comparison

Plain and simple just as how everyone likes it. Honest and helpful great work 👍 many thanks!

Great video! Very informative. I bought a Kickr Snap a few years ago. Mostly because it was a smart trainer and a lot less expensive than the wheel off smart trainers. I love it and can't imagine spending the cake to upgrade to a wheel off smart trainer. I think the best trainer you can buy is the one that you will consistently use. Keep up the great content my friend.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

The snap is so good! I alllllmost got into the wheel-on/wheel-off discussion but figured it was a bit of a reach, but yeah, totally right. A lot of people act like "If it's not a Neo 2T, it's worthless," and that's just silly. Wheel on trainers can be plenty good

The best unbiased presentation I’ve seen to date. Thank you.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it!

What a concept! Someone who has real knowledge of something without all the fluff. I just started using a trainer when I can't ride due to rain (which is quite rare in SoCal). Thanks for the timely tips as rain is off and on till end of month.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! I used to be afraid of coming across as boring, but I think there's value in not screaming at you all while talking about fluid bike trainers. 🤣

I'm training with Trainerroad and I do almost all workouts in ERG mode, so I can hit cadence targets and I feel that this way I have more quality workouts. And one thing you didn't mention is that I think that direct drive trainers are nicer to your bike than wheel on trainers. This is how I felt when switched from Tacx Vortex to Elite Suito. Btw, great channel.

Thanks Justin. I purchased my Tacx smart trainer this winter tho I still MTN bike in winter with studs. I've never ridden less...... Advice on how to motivate oneself indoors would be amazing. Nothing beats a proper bush ride with friends..... obviously that's suboptimal to coordinate as is mother nature.

Thanks Justin! Think this is what I really needed to hear. Especially the bit about spending more money doesn't make you a better athlete. Just starting to get back in to cycling and I think I'm going to go snag a cycleops fluid 2 so I can get in a good workout while I'm home with the kiddo.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Nice! I've heard great things about the Fluid2. And they're not (super) loud, good for dad-mode training. 🙂

So glad I found you/your channel/this video! We bought a Fluid 2 for indoor lockdown use and I’ve been regretting not spending more on a smart trainer. No longer! Armed with speed and cadence sensors I’m about to sign up for Zwift. Still getting my head around how to use gears with hills and the trainers variable resistance (guess I need to try it to understand) and also how to pedal out of the saddle (think it’s about being smooth which also means I need to clip in)

@axelslingerland9920

3 жыл бұрын

I have a City Cruiser type bicycle. It's a 24 speed, which means it has three gears on the crank and 8 on the cluster on the rear wheel. I use the smallest gear in the front and all of the gears in the back for hills, the middle gear in the front and all of the gears in the back for normal terrain and moderate speeds, and the largest gear in the front and all of the gears in the back for downhill and higher speeds. I can't even think about trying to keep up with bike racers, but then again I don't need to... Before my health forced me to think about a trainer, I just opened Google Maps and figured out what would be the best way to ride around the edges of the town I live in and once I did that, I rode around that route daily about 80% of the time, and the rest I would put my bike in the back of my truck and my girlfriend and I would go up the coast and have a picnic somewhere, then she would drive home and I would ride home on the coast highway. That's the best way to spend a day in my opinion!

Well Said. I’ve collected / used lots of trainers (mag, fluid & ‘smart’) over the years and the advice to use real power meter data that’s not derived via mathematical algorithms based of power curves is spot on. The Kurt Kinetic is a great trainer. (Yes I have one) The Tacx Boost is good for low cadence high resistance ‘strength’ training. (Yes I have one) Ultimately the best thing to do is ride your bike… Trainer or real life??? It doesn’t matter to me as long as I’m on my bike.

I rode a Kurk Kinetic trainer for years and loved it, but now the Kickr Core and Zwift is what I use daily. It’s accurate, smooth and as quiet as a mouse. Shifting and fan noise is really the only sound I hear. I also use the ERG mode most rides unless I’m going for a climb. I’ve improved my FTP by 13% in a short time. I don’t think I would have had the self discipline to do that on a fluid trainer simply because they’re so boring. I ride much more often and much harder on the smart trainer. The smart trainer keeps my attention as you really have to stay engaged in the game. As you pointed out, you can’t rest in ERG mode. You either turn the requested watts or get off.

Nice video, dude!! Thanks a lot!!

Great information!! Thanks

Thanks for making the video. My fluid 2 trainer mostly sat in the house as there is plenty of hills, nearby mountains and good riding outside where I live on and off road. Started Zwift due to covid-19, fires/smoke, heatwaves, local roads getting worse with traffic, and bad unsafe riding conditions of pavement in critical areas. Back On fluid 2 now since Sep. and love it for zwift but want to back outside on the dirt roads/trails IRL still, paved roads not so much. Have to get a smart trainer due zwift racing and some events will not recognize my results or dock me points which hurts my team that I joined. Have felt like the fluid two is mostly accurate enough with out the grade simulation or erg mode. Want to get power pedals as there cheaper and multi use instead but some zwift event rules will still dock me points and results depending on event or race for not being on a smart trainer. In one non race event some was surprised they dropped me, the only zpower rider, when I was doing a steady pace to finish the event. So now have to buy a smart trainer or my team gets docked next month when ZRL racing begins. Plan is to go with the budget friendly tacx flow by then and get power meter pedals. Zwift needs to adjust the zpower setting to allow accurate older trainers like the two you mentioned not to be the reason riders are docked points or results in events. As the budget smart trainers are not much better or tie or less accurate then the two dumb trainers with zpower you mentioned.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Spot on!

I think you may have missed the psychological aspect of a smart trainer. I don't consider myself an athlete. I cycle for general exercise and for fun. When I had a dumb trainer, I couldn't stay motivated to ride more than 20 minutes on the thing. Even watching a movie didn't help. Once I picked up a kickr core and zwift it was easy to hit those 1+ hour rides. I even did an indoor metric century. The psychology of having to react to the resistance generated by the program in regards to the terrain shown allowed me to put myself into the ride I was seeing on the screen and stay motivated to keep going.

🙋‍♂️yup! I’m that person who does not have a trainer, but doing my research. I definitely want to maintain during the rainy season. Thank you for the informative video 👍

@MK-rn2hm

3 жыл бұрын

I tossed around buying a Wahoo Snap and ended up buying a Rogue Echo Air Bike in the end. What helped me decide was determining that my goal would be to retain my strength during the winter months and continuing an exercise regime based on cycling. I also read many negative comments on the Net about smart trainers from people that had bought and been using them about their ineffectiveness in giving them a feeling of realism. In the end, it is just a matter of a few months before summer arrives and we can be outdoor again. So spend wisely.

This is a great vid. There is so much misunderstanding around non-interactive trainers. I've been Zwifting for almost 4 years using an Elite Chrono fluid trainer and not only does it feel pretty realistic to me, but when I compared a Zwift session to a real-world track session which is the closest thing to Zwift in real life, the distance and speed data was remarkably similar. I think as long as you get a half decent fluid or similar trainer, which is natively supported in Zwift and get your sensors (wheel size etc) and in-game weight configured correctly, then it's a very close to real-world experience and doesn't have to cost the world.

@crabbostabbo278

Жыл бұрын

I want to buy one, and, I've heard that fluid trainers destroy ur tires super quick, is that true?

@slumlordfromhell

8 ай бұрын

@@crabbostabbo278not super quick but way faster than road riding.

I enjoy ERG mode only because as a new rider, it really forces me to follow the structure and hit the targets that I need. ERG along with a structured plan (TR or SF) makes up for lack of experience. With the price of direct drives coming down, like the Core, they are an investment. I saved my pennies and got a Kickr Core and love it. In the end, as long as you are making circles, there is no replacement for time in the saddle no matter how you are making it happen. Interesting video.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I like erg quite a lot. It might be fun for you to throw it in RES mode every so often just to experience holding steady power, but yeah, overall I think erg has a lot of benefits. It's also good for those workouts that have steady little increases over 60s or whatever; there were some TR workouts I would just skip because I knew I wouldn't enjoy it on my Kinetic. Not a lot though.

Great Video and information. I'm using a dumb trainer currently with Wahoo Cadence and Speed sensors but I want to track my power. I've been looking at a smart budget friendly trainer but watching your video I might just get power pedals. I'm not looking to become a pro rider but I do like to get a really good workout in with stats I can track to better myself.

Nice video Justin. We share similar thoughts on the various turbo options on the market. I work with Wattbike and have many clients on their Pro and Atoms. Still similar issues but bottom line is doing the work and whatever metrics you get from session - you must be able to use them. Hopefully get to chat to you some time.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I try pretty hard to not put out an image that if you're not spending thousands and thousands of dollars, you're wasting your time. Dave Scott and Mark Allen were far better than I'll ever be on bikes that you could pick up from a 2nd-hand shop!

Great honest video. Recently purchased a smart trainer this winter, after years of outdoor riding/racing and occasionally riding an old dumb trainer during the winter. Also have been riding with power for a long time, and already had a power meter on the bike, which I used with Zwift. I’m a small person, and just found the interactive experience really lacking in any kind of real road feel. The resistance signal sent to the trainer is not proportional to body weight inputted (so I learned)...it’s the same for all riders..what changes is the speed you move up the hill vs a larger rider...this just isn’t real life, and in order to make the hills feel normal, I had to dial down the trainer difficulty to about 40%, which basically meant I used about 3 gears the entire ride, whether going 10mph uphill or 45mph down..again, not real life..and thanks for the explanation on drafting, because I thought I was crazy for not being able to tell I was drafting..was thinking the resistance would go down..it apparently does not..again, not real life. I guess there are technical problems with sending a resistance signal to the trainer which is proportional to weight, and sending a different resistance signal if you are drafting. And regarding ERG mode, I get it, but I’ve stared at power meters on a dumb trainer, and basically have been doing intervals in “manual ERG mode”. Which as you mentioned, is more “real life”. And the last thing I’ll mention is if smart trainer companies really want to create something with realistic road feel, I would suggest two mag “pieces”...a negative one to create resistance and positive one to create momentum...not sure how you really simulate 40+mph down a hill and how fast you really need to pedal without somehow simulating the force of gravity...a fly wheel just isn’t going to cut it. Even at 100% trainer difficulty I never got near my 53x12 on the steep downhills. I ended up returning the trainer I bought. $1K is just too much for what it offered. I agree with the final conclusion in this video.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Without diving wayyyy too deep into the trainer difficulty thing... It seems like a lot of people love to talk about smart trainers being SO LIFELIKE and how you can FEEL THE ROAD, but then 1) aren't on that high of a TD, and 2) Isn't that what your gears are for? lol. I ride real roads thousands of miles; the whole POINT of gears is that you're not doing insane high force at 55rpm up a hill. I guess my point is, like you said, you sorta end up using the same gears. If Trainer Difficulty was renamed something like "Shift Realism," people wouldn't argue about it nearly as much. Changing topics, I heard a story once (and it could be wrong) that an early electronic trainer company actually figured out a great way to simulate momentum and feel in a smart trainer, patented it, and then went out of business. That definitely could be wrong, but I find that interesting.

Thank you for the excellent video. I'm in the north part of Canada so at least 75% of my riding is indoors and currently the vector power pedals and the fluid2 has gotten me this far on trainerroad - but it is time for a little more interaction. This video helped me A LOT and I have a better understanding of what I'm buying for the money. Thank you! The gain for a tacx flux s is marginal, but the kids don't need the inheritance money anyway....

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Good, happy to help! And hey, what's a better inheritance than an amazing pain cave? 🙃😅

Great vid and advice

I bought that trainer a speed sensor and cadence sensor. The gen 3 sensor works but I do think it is registering low. I love the feel, very realistic. My conditioning has a long way to go.

Thanks for the strait forward advice. My needs are simple, and I don't need any of that smart stuff at all. I'm diabetic and just need to peddle to keep my strength up. But I have arthritis in my hands so I can't ride my bike anymore. So I'm looking at a Saris Fluid2 and I have two Cateye Enduro 8 bike computers, one of which I have set up normally and the other is set up in an unconventional way. Instead of setting it up with the censor on the front wheel like you would normally, I put the sensor on the left side on the bar that goes from the crank to the mounts for the rear wheel, and I put the magnet on the crank so it passes the sensor and the only thing that I use it for is to keep track of how long the crank is turning. My Doctor says 30 minutes a day on moderate difficulty should do it. And if I ever manage to get my arthritis under control, I have 70 miles to go to hit 30,000 miles... And I want to finish those 70 miles, even if it's one mile at a time!!!

Great advise with getting a power meter.

@bashconsole

3 жыл бұрын

Try Virtual Power Meter

Great and helpful review. I grew up in racing not having any of this tech. Not that I’m anti tech, rather I’ve not been fiscally compelled. l appreciate the review

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

I think that's a pretty similar approach to my own; I'm not about being anti-tech at all either, but moreso having a bit of skepticism that these improvements are 'automatically' better than the old way just because it's 5x the cost and has a computer in it.

Love my kurt kinetic, picked it up 2nd hand for £70, added the Bluetooth sensor for £30. Ride 5 times a week using Trainerroad. Always keep the pressure in the tyre at 100 psi and always calibrate before a ride. Added 40 Watts in the last few months.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah, gainsssss 💪

I like this video, it’s very unbiased. I just bought a Saris Fluid2 that comes with a sensor. It isn’t clear to me how to make it interactive and maybe I can’t. How does one interact with the online software, the resistance is only going to change with what gear I’m in. Thanks. I hope you have a chance to respond. The KICKR Snap was twice as expensive and I’m trying to save for a bike trip.

Had a Kinetic trainer and went to wahoo Kickr, but kept the fluid trainer as a backup. Thankfully I didnt sell it because the Kickr has had serious issues with noise and I'm on my 2nd trainer in two years with the same issue (replaced once by Wahoo). I'm now back to the fluid Kinetic and feel it's a great trainer that's reliable, cheaper,.and overall a better option than the expensive smart trainer that breaks down easily.

Wow this has really changed my opinion on trainers. I was saving up for a budget smart trainer. But you have made me re-assess my priorities. So i have 2 bikes and that's it. I now realise that what is important to me is 'feel'. i would rather have a realistic road feel than just have the machine put on more resistance automatically and feel like i am not cycling. So i can buy a really good fluid trainer like the JETBLACK Z1 PRO (reviews are superb) for £250 GBP. I am going to get a speed and cadence sensor for now (probably Magene) and I will be on Zwift for less than £290 GBP total. I am not really concerned with the accuracy of the speed sensors for power data and just want to enjoy riding when weather is bad etc. I will look at the iQ2 power meter if i ever comes out. thanks for this video.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Steve, spot on! Fluids are great. Definitely be careful with those IQs... I wouldn't put up and of my own money, personally. 😬

I agree 100%. Owned the Wahoo Kickr. Sold it and went back to my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine with a power meter. Super road feel, Less shifting and super reliable. Don't even need a power meter if you have the InRide sensor installed.

@donvape336

Жыл бұрын

I just got the road machine two days ago. I was so worried about this.

@trailzrock2

Жыл бұрын

@@donvape336 what do you think of the fill? I really like my road.machine

Great advice, as usual! By the way, the links to Instagram and Subscribe in the description are broken.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

HA I am so bad at KZread. Looks like they've been broken for months on a ton of videos #NailedIt. Thanks

Thank you 🙏🏽 you just safe me $$$

Another good video IMO. I use an Elite Suito with RGT and really love it: that combination really works for me. I understand the point about the non interactive trainer being able to give the same training effect and, while that’s certainly true (I’m sure), I found using a non interactive trainer while waiting for my Elite Suite to arrive, the experience was VERY boring to me. I watched in person videos of riding interesting place; however, it was just not satisfying. Just a personal perspective. Have you tried Drafting in RGT? I think you’ll find it’s different from what it is in Zwift.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

I have tried exactly one race in RGT, ha. You're right, it's way different and the actual race dynamics are interesting vs "Hold threshold for the duration of the race." That said, I think holistically I just don't engage with virtual racing. Might be the same thing that makes me not like video games. Nothing against it, just not super fun for me.

Great video and great info! I settled on a road machine with the inride sensor. Found them used for a good price online. I ended up buying a spare wheel to use as a dedicated training wheel so I didnt have to change tires everytime i wanted to ride outside. Again, picked up a wheel for $70. So all in i have about $300 invested after getting my training tire online for another $30. I just didnt have $1000 to spend on a trainer. I have yet to set it up, but not sure how it calculates cadence?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's a hell of a setup for $300! That's basically a GREAT way of doing it. The InRide can measure cadence through the power impulses of the pedal strokes (the little micro moments of additional power when you actually drive down). It works... functionally well. I find that it reads a little low for me (about 5rpm) and it has a bit of a delay (2-4s) vs a magnet. Also, when you go from very high power to very low power very quickly and are sort of 'free pedaling' as the fluid unit catches up, it'll very briefly show 0rpm. None of these are big enough issues to make it a real problem. I ended up getting a dedicated cadence pod just so I'd also have it outdoors, but give it a go without one for a while to see if it meets your needs. I'd say it's 'good enough,' but if you want to have better data for $40, you have that option too. Happy training!

Very good tips.

Hey Justin. I got really into cycling during the pandemic and have been using an 80s peugeot with downtube shifters. Now that its colder and Im slowly putting weight back on I really want to get back on the bike. I ordered a tacx boost bundle and when I put it together realized it was not compatible with my bike at all. It has 27 1/4 inch wheels. What would be your suggestion on an indoor trainer for me? I'd like to stay around the $700 range if possible. But if something has payment plan options then I'm willing to spend a bit more. Thank you so much. Once I'm going I hope to see you on ZWIFT. Hopefully, next year Ill upgrade my bike too :D

Great video! I have the fluid 2 trainer, and was considering getting the garmin speed sensor. Would you recommend? Thanks!

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

Any of the speed sensors should work! I have a friend using the Garmin sensor with her phone and she's had no complaints. The Fluid2 is really solid. It's known for taking about 10-15 minutes to warm up, and then once it warms up, it actually gets abruptly more difficult (this is counter to how a lot of fluid trainers behave as they often get easier when warm.) Are you planning on Zwift or TR? Either way, the Fluid2 is ZPower supported and fully supported in TrainerRoad. You're basically the exact upgrade path I was envisioning: You've got a good fluid trainer. Eventually, buy a power meter, then if you want, buy a direct drive smart trainer. The ooooonly way I'd switch that around is if you REALLY want erg mode for training. Even if your power numbers are a little bit innacurate, they should be consistent. Just keep your trainer tire inflated to the same PSI, turn the knob the same number of turns, and do a callibration after warmup.

LOL, I'm still on rollers wth minimal resistance, on my fixed gear, with WahooRoam for feedback. Occasionally ride the family Peloton for loads more feedback [minimizing the coaching , riding my time trial]. .

Absolutely agree with all points. Had a fluid 2 for 2-3 years and finally got a kickr for about 2 months now. I absolutely love the kickr, but when i think about it, i would never NOT suggest a dumb trainer as well. The fluid 2 feels just as great and did my indoor rides wonder. A roller in the other hand, scared the jeebus out of me so i gave that to a friend.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hahah exactly! Actually that would be a pretty solid set too... Fluid for general use, electronic mode for sim or when you really want erg mode, and rollers for bike handling! But yeah, I don't like rollers for fitness training... Too much conscious effort when I just want to work out lol

Hi Justin! First of all, I kicked into your channel, because I am very new to Zwift, cycling and so on. I am riding a nice canyon gravel and thinking about to use that for, too. There is so much information out there… It makes me scared ^^ You gave me hope … a lot, that I don’t have to spend all my money for powermeters and so on. So the only question is: if I buy the fluid kinetic trainer, do I need any membership @ kinetic ? The delivered quick release should for to my gravel, shouldn’t it? Does it measure speed cadence and watts? Or would it help to add a cadence sensor also ? Sorry for my noob questions, but hopefully I get an answer here 🙏🏼 Thanks a lot for sharing the information mate 🤜🏻🤛🏻

Hi! I’ve watched this video multiple times and so glad to have followed your advice! I have been riding for 2 years now. Beginning of this year changed to a Merida Reacto SRAM Force edition. Been thinking of getting a trainer and/or power meter for awhile now, until I watched this video. So I got myself a 2nd hand Omnium Over-driver Trainer (US$260). And then a SRAM Spider Power Meter! I’m on Zwift now but still figuring out all these power figures. I don’t do any races, group rides on weekends. But just generally wanna improve. Any advice what I can do to train and be stronger now that I have a dumb trainer but a power meter on my bike? I’ve been trying to find a follow up video to this so hope you can shed some light! Thanks for this video and thanks in advance for your reply!

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hey man! Happy to hear that you found it so useful! I try not to make any ‘repeat’ videos that anyone else has already covered, and I was surprised I couldn’t find a succinct “Here’s all the real differences.” I’ve got some strong opinions against people who think that if you’re not on a $1200 trainer you’re wasting your time, lol. That’s a nice bike! Merida always has some cool lines. You’ve got a couple options, and they all center around raising your FTP. Coincidentally I was live streaming tonight and talked about this too. Think about it like this: If all you do is just go ‘ride your bike,’ eventually you’ll plateau. Adding structured training helps you overcome that and forces you to grow in ways that ‘just riding along’ doesn’t. That applies to indoor riding as well; Zwift is good for ‘getting you on the bike,’ but if all you do is just get on, ride, and get off, that’s no different than doing it outdoors: infinitely better than nothing, but not the most efficient. Structured training is the key here. Since you’re already in Zwift, you shouldd definitely give their training plans a look. They’re not AMAZING, but you’re already paying for Zwift, so give them a go! If you’re looking for more granular control over your training, check out TrainerRoad. That’s the basis of my training personally, and I just did a (very long, lol) video about it. Ultra short version: it’s kinda boring, but it’s effective. One perk for TR that could work for you too, you can use their workouts outside with your power meter! Not practical on group rides, but great if it’s sunny and you wanna get out for 90min but still have some structure. Anyway, hope that helps a bit!

@derekyap6443

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Thanks Justin, sure will give those structured plans on zwift a go. Appreciate your reply. I am in Singapore and just so you know, many cyclists here watch your videos! So keep doing what you are doing! Cheers!

Hey man, thanks for the video. I am not sure to get a Snap or a Core but your video has definitely helped a lot. I want to train in order to improve my climbing skills and obviously on the store they tell me that if I don't choose the Core, I won't be able to practice steeper grades (+13%). Being honest, both trainers will help me achieve my goal right.? Like I guess what I'm missing would be like "road feel" and not necessary features or I am losing a lot with chosing the Snap?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hey there! Sorry for the slow reply; wanted to take a few min and give you some thoughts because there's a few points to unpack here. So first thing's first, I want you to go read the ZwiftInsider article linked at the end of this comment, because it unpacks an important topic on the subject of incline grade. The super short version is that 'incline' is actually somewhat of a complex thing to measure, and the amount of power that requires changes depending on your weight and speed. Now that said though, yes, you're right that both trainers will help you. Because most of your training for climbing is really about improving your power to weight ratio (raising your FTP and/or reducing your bodyweight.) The path to an improved FTP might / likely will include some high force efforts, but you're not going to spend most of your time trying to climb a virtual 17% grade; you're gonna be doing things like sweet spot efforts, maybe some sprints, over/unders, that sort of thing, and either trainer is going to accommodate that. And if we're honest... Neither trainer has great 'road feel.' The Kickr is fine, but ride it back to back vs a good fluid trainer and you'd pick the fluid trainer in a blind test. The big factors that I really see with Snap vs Core basically comes down to wheel-on vs. direct drive. Direct drive is really just nicer all around; you never have tire slip, you never have tire wear, they're quieter, and potentially more accurate (as it removes the tire inflation from being a factor.) DD trainers are a nicer experience than wheel-on trainers. I'd put your thought into that more than focusing on the hypothetical max gradient, especially if your stated goal is outdoor performance. Either trainer + TrainerRoad (or another system) is going to get you fitter if you use it consistently. zwiftinsider.com/how-much-trainer-resistance-do-you-really-need/#:~:text=The%20Kickr%20is%20advertised%20with,is%20a%20function%20of%20power).

Good video, I am in the market for an indoor trainer, and have being weighing up the cost vs benefit scenarios, I am new to road cycling but will never been a racer, its more for fitness & weight loss, I have, one question i do have is though is can you use a smart fluid trainer with something like zwift without it being fully interactive? I have a cadence & speed sensor on my bike as well as a HR monitor

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the sport! Absolutely you can, and there's actually some real pros even ignoring price. Fluid trainers (Like the Kurt Kinet Road Machine or Cyclops Fluid 2) have great 'road feel.' You may not care about it feeling very similar to the real world, but even ignoring that, they just feel 'nice' to ride. Very smooth. They won't be interactive (like you guessed) but honestly that's not a huuuuuge deal. Basically just shift in reverse if you want to feel something different; Zwift shows up a hill and you want to feel more resistance? Shift into a harder gear, and reverse for downhill. A fluid trainer paired with a cadence/speed sensor, especially if you have a ZPower trainer (like either of the aforementioned) is actually decently accurate and repeatable, too. All that's to say: Yep, you're good :)

great video Justin, i was offer $250 off a smart trainer for my dumb trainer recently but going to wait as waiting on my gravel bike build

@JustinDoesTriathlon

2 жыл бұрын

Nice! That'll be fun.

Very nice video! I love it I have favero pedals ( one side only) Kurt kinnetic fluid trainer. This vinter i have used zwift traning plans, first ftp builder now i am on Build me up, I dont care for races i zwift, but i think its hard to hit the right watt especially in short interval like 30 or 25 sec. So your video was just the input i nedded. Only thing is that the trainer i am looking for ( elite suito) is very easy to bring when i visit min son in law. (He has got one) I has being very disapointed abot the feel of drag in Zwift on this current setup, and i kind of hoped that it would be much better on a smarttrainer. I very much like to be on some one tire irl 😜🥵🤣 Its always nice to by new stuff, but many times you get disappointed, you really got me thinking 🤔 Thanks again Peter

@JustinDoesTriathlon

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent! Happy to hear that

Riding the Flux S using erg mode all the time. Actually hadn't thought about the smoothness when it comes to riding back outdoors but you re right! Maybe I should mix things up a bit :)

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's worth switching things up every so often! And erg has a con that I didn't put in this video specifically too: Yes, with erg you can always do little drills of cadence, but it's also possible that you might spend your entire workout at EXACTLY your preferred cadence. That doesn't happen in the real world, and it's definitely beneficial to be able to work at a variety of cadences too.

@user-tn8jw3vp3b

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon you re absolutely right! Well I try to be around my preferred cadence so at least I avoid one mistake :) thanks for your answer!

Hi, so I currently have a 20 inch bike and a classic trainer for 20 inch bikes. I recently bought a bluetooth speed and cadence sensor to start on zwift, but i found out the power should be way off from what I am cycling outside. What should iI do?

Sold my Kinetic and bought a wahoo Kickr. Love Erg mode

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Awesom!

I have an Elite Power Mag "classic" trainer with Powertap pedals. What I like about this magnetic trainer is that it has 8 resistance levels. With the resistance dialed up, the wheel speed is pretty low. My quiet squirrel-cage fan is louder than the trainer. You'll still be putting out 250 watts... in 5th gear. Even at this low wheel speed, the road feel is pretty realistic.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

And that's a great setup too, especially with PowerTaps. Best of both worlds. That's a smart use of keeping the wheel speed low; that's a factor on DD trainers too, even. Noise was the single biggest reason I bought a DD trainer, actually; even still, I tend to stay small ring just to really keep that speed (and noise) down.

Been riding north of 30 years. Used the the kurt for many of them in the off season. Switched to the Tacx Neo 2T (On Zwift) about 18 months ago. The single best thing Iv'e ever done in my cycling life. Worth every penny. 60 minutes used to be a real chore on the Kurt. 4 hours on the Neo on Zwift is acutally fun. And he hit's the nail on the head with regard to erg mode for training. I don't think much of Zwift's pre-programmed training, but it does allow you to easily program your own interval sessions. Roll your own and hit it in erg mode...it's the most disciplined work out you will ever get. The one negative? I've definitely become more of a weather wimp.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha man indoor training has made me so soft 🤣🥶

I bought a Kickr and after a number of product issues went back to using rollers and my old Minoura turbo trainer with Assioma power pedals. Saved £1000 by coming to my senses.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Nice!

I have been weighing in as to which trainer to buy interactive or non-interactive. Thanks. Your video answered a lot of questions that I had. I have one more question unanswered. I want to get a feel of the famous cycling routes like the Tour de France, on Zwift or similar apps. Will i be able to achieve my goal with a non-interactive trainer? If not, which is the most value for money interactive trainer which will help me achieve it?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

No, in that case you'll need a smart trainer that can accurately simulate grade, and then you can shift like you normally would outdoors using your gears. The Elite Suito and Kickr Core are two of the best sweet-spot-for-value trainers right now; Kickr Core can simulate up to a 16% grade, and the Suito to 15%. I have the Core and generally enjoy it.

Essentially I reached your same conclusion: I wish I had seen this video an year ago, it would have saved me a lot of thinking... on a slighlty unrelated note: what are your thoughts re: favero uno VS favero duo?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, happy to help if late. re: Uno or Duo, it depends on how much you actually need / want accurate power. And the important word here is ‘accurate,’ because even the Uno is consistent, and it’s consistency that matters for training. Most people do have a small imbalance, but it’s not massive. Typically just a few percent. But for the sake of example, let’s just say you have a CRAZY huge power imbalance, like… 80/20. Whichever side your PM is going to have a very ‘wrong’ power number vs the actual amount of power you’re producing. But does it matter? If all you’re doing is setting zones to work in TrainerRoad on, and/or using your power number outside for pacing, then it actually really doesn’t matter at all, because the zones and power numbers are still consistent and valid. Yes, your FTP in this case (my 80/20 example) might be crazy high or low, but so are the associated zones. Now, if you’re doing something like Zwift racing where you want accurate power data, then sure, you’re going to want the duo (or I suppose, the uno on your stronger leg. 🙃 ) Having dual sided power also lets you work on correcting imbalances and such, but again, most people are just a scosche off. A decade ago when PMs were super rare and very expensive anyway, most people used hub power. Now it’s true that hub PM is the combined L+R, so the accuracy is still there on a hub, but we didn’t have LR then either. Now the only other thing is: For the cost, if you feel like you might want a duo in the future, you pretty much have to get it now, I think. It’s like $450 for the upgrade vs 250 for the duo at purchase. But I gotta say, I think a lot of people would be served just fine with the Uno, especially if your needs are things where ultimate accuracy matters less than consistency.

That’s exactly what I do for the last 1 year, Basic minoura trainer with favero assioma

If I use a dumb trainer with swift on steep climbs e.g. 10%. I assume I need to pedal faster than someone with erg mode to hit the same power. Will this power translate to more power on a real hill where cadence would be lower?

As a 40+ year cycling veteran (My racing age is 60 this year) and someone who lives in an area where I end up spending 4 months of the year on a trainer, plus I have a demanding job that precludes doing many of the weekday group rides I'd like to do, what I consider at the top priority is the "boredom factor". In order to become a stronger cyclist, there is no substitute for hours on the saddle. Lots and lots of hours. Winter base miles are key. I own rollers, 3 dumb trainers and 3 smart trainers. (There are 4 of us that cycle in my family.) I've used Zwift, Trainer Road, Sufferfest and Rouvy, plus tried a few others. I think the bottom line is what can you do that makes you somewhat look forward to getting on a trainer. None of us like it; it's a means to an end. I'd rather be out on the road or on a trail with my comrades. The interactive solution that feeds back a real world resistance forcing you to pay attention to your gears and allows you to look at and ride real courses (like Rouvy) or be an interactive game (like Zwift) are a godsend to this end. But with a dumb trainer and just my power meter for feedback, they are nowhere near as "real" and I get bored pretty quickly. If a dumb trainer works for you then great. But after doing this for a long as I have done it, then a smart trainer is the way to go IMHO. I'd rather get beaten than to use a dumb trainer for more than the occasional workout. I used to do it all the time or go to group workouts with the team on dumb trainers, but no more. (I do a dumb trainer in hotel rooms when I travel on business and can't get on the road.) And for the record, I've grown to detest the ERG mode on trainer road and other similar apps with I'm solo. I just lose motivation, but that is me.

At last a review of what is worth it and not rather than just spend more get more. I have Garmin power pedals on my Triathlon bike but no indoor trainer. I always use a wattbike at the GYM but as thats now off the cards and it's dark and wet outside I need an indoor solution. A friend has a surplus TACX Satori that he is willing to send me so I'll use that. Thanks @JustinDoesTriathlon you just saved me some cash..

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Happy to! Yeah, I think I've accidentally become the "old man yells at clouds" of triathlon content, haha. Expensive gear can be great, but cheap gear can be great too, and most importantly, more expensive doesn't automatically equal better. Pedals and a nice fluid trainer are a great combo.

I think a smart trainer gamafying training would take the monotony out of training in the winter and early spring. Having a way to keep motivated to train in itself makes training more effective

I’m looking for immersion rather than any kind of health tracking. My dilemma is that I have a campy record ten speed circa 2002 and I’m not willing to do a drivetrain swap to make it work. Are there smart fluid trainers which make a compromise? I simply want it to work in zwift and have interactive resistance.

@Bungle2010

Жыл бұрын

Could get a Zwift Hub? They're cheap and if you jump on Strava right now you can earn a £50 voucher with a bit of hard work. You'd need to change the freehub to put a Campy cassette on it though. It does come with a cassette (8-12 speed options) but it's for Shimano.

With a Kinetic trainer (the green one with fluid resistance) my back wheel doesn't seem to enough grip. I love the trainer, but when I really get the power down (30 second reps over 500 watts) I hear a squeaky noise from the back wheel and it's clearly not gripping the metal roller enough. What's the solution?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I've had that problem when doing really high effort, short duration sprints, and the solution was to spin up a little bit slower. Four other things I'd hit, in order: 1) Make sure you're doing two full turns of the adjustment knob. 2) clean the drum and wheel with isopropyl alchohol. 3) Lower your pressure slightly (5-10 psi) this may make the power number a tiny bit lower than reality, fyi, and 4) consider getting a really sticky tire. If you're using a cheap, hard compound tire, it'll have less grip than one made out of a softer rubber.

Thanks for saving me $$ I have the Kurt kinetic already.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

It's a great trainer!

i'm not going to spend any more money to switch smart trainers.. but i'm contemplating between continuing to use my kinetic smart control power unit T-6000 or putting the road machine liquie resistance unit back onto the trainer that I already have.. any thoughts on the subject would be welcome. (i ride all my endurance and recovery rides on tempus fugit in zwift with power/cadence/hr hidden, and I do all my vO2 max stuff in dumb trainer mode.. only time i think about ERG is for hitting over-unders, tempo, and FTP intervals) BUT IDK if it's worth it.. maybe i could just sell the smart resistance unit and end up really happy with my liquid resistance unit?! one thing i do know is that swapping back and forth with the smart trainer and liquid trainer is not time i'm willing to spend routinely. PS. I do use favero assioma power pedals..

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Man to me you're like the primary candidate for using a KK fluid unit with power pedals and calling it a day. If the vast majority of your stuff is Tempus Fugit, etc, then having power control is even less relevant. Even a lot of people with direct-drive smart trainers prefer resistance mode for short (15s stuff) VO2 because Erg is too slow to respond. If you already have the T6000 I suppose it's pess of a factor, but do you prefer the feel of the fluid? I haven't ridden on a t6000, but I love how the KK fluid feels. Don't blame you at all for not wanting to switch units all the time, that would drive me crazy. For me, I'd optimize for whatever you do the most or care about that most. To me, that would be all the Tempus Fugit kind of stuff. I've done a lot of over/unders on fluid; you do have to watch it more carefully, and you lose the ability to seamlessly change cadence by just a few RPM... But I mean, that's also how IRL works; there's value in learning to work at a range of cadences. Just my 2c, I'd do the fluid.

@isaacyoung1868

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks!!! i'm definitely going to give the liquid trainer a try for a few weeks then.. I've compared my t6000 to a tacx neo 2 (for a demo ride) and i'll say the neo ERG makes power sooo smooth while the t6000 will have me wobbling back and forth above and below target for no apparent reason. I did TR rides comparing them (both measured using favero assioma pedals and both in ERG mode). The neo is able to nearly perfectly follow the trace of the TR prescription while the t6000 looks much more erratic. I wouldn't recommend it but I haven't tried any other wheel on ERG trainers for comparison.

Hi, thanks for this video. I have a basic fluid trainer that's not smart. I don't have any sensors. Are there any training videos or video subscriptions that are oriented to me?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

There are! You're going to want to look up "RPE cycling workouts" and you should be able to find a ton. RPE stands for Rate of Perceived Exertion; essentially, it's just riding by feel for certain times. It'll take you a little while to dial in what a 4 vs a 6 feels like, or a 9 vs a 10, or a 7 vs 8, but once you do, you'll be fine. GCN has some good ones.

@wesleyaardahl7278

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Thanks much! Found a good GCN 30 min. workout for starters and will try it this morning.

Love my Kinetic, Just a question, Any Ideas why Power readings are 20-30 watts lower on Zwift than in TrainerRoad?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

That's strange, I've not experienced that. Are you running them at the same time? Zwift smoothes the power a bit differently than TR, so if things are ramping or changing in TR, Zwift can lag. If you're holding steady power in TR, zwift should show the same. Are you using the same power source for both TR and Zwift (Like, pedals transmitting in both ANT + BT) and watching the power at the same time, or? But yeah, strange, they should show the same as they just report what they're given.

@kiksdealba

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon no, I have been using TR for several years doing structure training and also use my Garmin just to check speed with the Garmin sensor, I know that my Road Machine puts 220W @ 30k/hr. I start using for variety during the lockout Zwift this last couple of months and notice that it cost me more to produce power so I measure the speed with my Garmin sensor and compare the watts indicated on Zwift and they are always 20W less @ 30K ( measure with sensor as with TR ). Zwift speeds are different as you know., I did a Zwift ramp test as well as on TR with the same difference.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

@@kiksdealba Oh! Gotcha, yeah that makes sense. I think TR and Zwift calculate the curves a little differently

@kiksdealba

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon TR use the Kinetic power Curve, it matches perfectly... as always it hurts to see your FTP go down specially if you cannot produce the same W/Kg.to play on Zwift Jaja

@kiksdealba

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon sorry to continue on this topic, I read that Z-Power in Zwift and TR use the power curve from the manufacturer, in this case Kurt Kinetic, any ideas why can be the reason for the 20 w or so difference between Z-Power and TR? ( to compare apples to apples I used the speed from a Garmin speed sensor to see the power output at same speeds in both Apps.)

I'm pretty Meh on the need for smart trainers. HR monitor is enough data for trainer workouts. Road time is where you become a stronger, smarter, resilient athlete. Same way brick workouts help work out the bugs in transition. For me, knowing how many minutes until I feel like a runner is enough info to be patient and stay out of my head while racing.

off-subject, but what eye glasses frames are you wearing in this video? T y

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Warby Parker; James. 🤓

“Need” or “Want”. Nobody “needs” anything, but if you are training, or riding many many hours indoors. There is nothing like a direct drive top of the line smart trainer. Life is all about compromises and priorities. As for ERG mode, yes, for structured training, it completely takes all of the ‘thinking’ out of the equation during your training.

I have'nt read all comments, so maybe it has been mentioned? Is there complete disregard of single leg training (on rest days) now? Single legging pretty much has to be done on a stationary bike, w a foot rest bar. ie: The Stages bike seems to have a nice rest spot. (I don't work for Stages, and I don't have any training bikes. Further, I just gave my nice rollers away (mistake:)

@022100bmlotus

Жыл бұрын

Would love to win something:) and appreciate sincerity, but lack of trust in the digital world:( No way Im giving out my phone#. Single leg

@JustinDoesTriathlon

Жыл бұрын

Those are spam comments, not from me! Don't send them anything. I'm trying to block them all. Your suspicion is correct!

I am not sure why but I have a Kinetic Road Machine and while on Zwift I could be pedaling as fast as I can and my rider will just pull off the road and stop. I have a garmin speed and cadence sensor that will still be registering but my rider just stops. It sucks.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, that's odd... When you say registering, you mean Zwift is showing watts and rpm, but the rider just outright stops? That's super weird, never heard of that before. If it shows -- under watts, that's a connection dropout. Unfortunately, dropouts are a perma-issue for me too. Nothing is ever extremely reliable.

I live my Kickr snap

I wish I'd watched this video 3 years ago before I got my Tacx Neo. It's great but I got it for racing in zwift and some of the info here just wasn't well advertised back then. Specifically the lack of drafting feel. I mean that seems to be the most important thing (get into the draft and the trainer reduces resistance) and they didn't even implement it. But yeah a non-interactive fluid resistance unit and a crank powermeter would have been much better buy.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Galen! Man I think no one explains the lack of drafting feel. I think that's (one of) the reasons I don't really like Zwift racing. It doesn't feel like a race to me, it's just a long threshold effort with the results (mostly) sorted by w/kg. And then don't even get me started on how the Trainer Difficulty setting makes people lose their minds, lol. But hey, the Neo is still a great trainer, and Erg is awesome for workouts. I use it 90%+ of the time.

@galenkehler

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon the neo is indeed a great trainer, and my GF definitely loves how it works. Now that I have a crank power meter, I'm going to build my own resistance unit, as I still like the idea of a wheel-off trainer without the brains.

Great video and info. I have a old mag trainer from Aldis. I tried smart one the kicker. Nice as hell but 1300 for trainer that you seem to need an app to use is not for me. I think fluid trainer seems the best route for when it’s 20 f out side lol.

Hi, As someone who wants to start cycling to complete in triathlon but don't have safe roads near, do you think make 90% of training in door will be sufficient enough to complete outside of course?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

In terms of fitness, 100% possible. In fact, I think if you only trained indoors on structured training, you'd be fitter than if you just rode around a bunch outside. That said, there's more to it than just fitness. If you're new to cycling, then you really need to get confident on the bike and get comfortable handling your bike in a wide variety of situations. If the weather allows, here's what I'd do: use indoor structured training (like TrainerRoad) during the weekdays, and then do your long weekend ride outdoors. That way you'll get the benefits of indoor structure + get more comfortable and confident on the bike. It'll also help you ensure your bike position is sustainable on the road, etc.

@boryahL

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Thanks! Yes I'm new to cycling, searching for a indoor setup now. Btw great channel happy i found it.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome! Cycling is what got my into tri initially. I love running and swimming, but man when you're confident on the bike and can just go rock out 60-100mi in a sunny day, best thing in the world

@boryahL

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Thanks 😊

What do you think? What's the best option/trainer? 🚴

@jared7586

4 жыл бұрын

JustinDoesTriathlon I would say for someone who is somewhat familiar with the indoor training and all that get a wheel on smart trainer. I started with a cyclops but just went to the smart trainer kickr snap a few years ago, best bang for your buck smart trainer. Tacx has some cheaper wheel ons too. Great vid I agree with all your points.

@jared7586

4 жыл бұрын

This video is gonna help a lot of people.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

Second mention of the Snap in here; it's darn good. I think there's a bit of an unfounded fear of wheel-on trainers just destroying tires instantly too. It can happen, but tires are way cheaper than DD trainers! I used a soft tire on my Kinetic for a long time, almost no wear I can see...🤷‍♂️

@kokoyhawaii

4 жыл бұрын

Spin bike and throw Assioma pedals on from your road bike.

I have a kirk kinetic smart trainer. Love the machine but the software just plain fails. Constantly crashes to the point of being worthless. I've worked multiple times with customer service, re-starts, changed batteries, tried my laptop, phone computer, no bueno. For feel and noise level, it's great but I wish I wouldn't have bought a smart trainer that gives me no data and just gone old school with a dogleg work around!

I prefer electric trainer and acoustic trainer thank you

The winter months, rollers on a fixed track bike watching a movie, Fat & cross bike bike on hilly trails in the woods and power lines no more then 1hr. its off season to me and train other stuff. Also I don't race and I fall in the 70 percent of better riders on Strava.

I use an old wind trainer that I bought in the 70's and rollers. For me, buying a smart trainer and all the add on do-hickeys amounts to becoming a slave to data-gathering rather than riding the bike for fun and adventure. K.I.S.S. is my motto here.

My dilemma is I commute on my only road bike daily so swapping a training tyre over on my rear wheel isn't time convenient but direct drive trainers are too expensive. What would your suggestion be?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hmm.... Couple options: You could buy a cheapo wheel and use that on the trainer; just swap the wheels each day. You can get something pretty cheap and basic on Craigslist if you get lucky. That's probably the ideal. Not all trainers eat tires though... I've found that a decent tire (that's clean, use iso alchohol to wipe it) shouldn't really slip with a wheel on trainer. I got many months out of my tires 3-5days/week.

@willjolliffe2814

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon thank you for your reply. I'll keep that in mind.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah good luck. It's weird, some people report wheel on trainers destroying tires in just a few rides, others go many months. I haven't seen any conclusions as to why. I totally understand not wanting to deal with the annoyance of swapping stuff all the time.

Wich trainingapp, and additional hardware would you recommend for an old school Tackx Satori?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Do you have the old one, that doesn't broadcast power? There are two versions of it. If you've got the old one and don't want to go up to full power meter pedals, then a bluetooth speed sensor paired to TrainerRoad or Zwift would estimate power.

@steflodewyckx4336

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon The old one, with 10 strenghtlvl's. Wich speed sensor you recommend? I was planning the wahoo speed sensor and then go for sufferfest app.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

@@steflodewyckx4336 Gotcha. So each app should tell you which res level to use. From what I have read in the past, most people say the Satori should be set to level 4, with a few people saying 5 is the right number. Honestly, if you're not racing, it's kinda a moot point. For Sufferfest, what matters is consistency moreso than absolute accuracy. All BT speed sensors are basically the same! Wahoo, Garmin, just get whatever's available and cheapest. I have a Wahoo cadence sensor, works fine. I slightly lean Wahoo because their customer service is so good.

@steflodewyckx4336

3 жыл бұрын

​@@JustinDoesTriathlon Haha, and what if you got a garmin watch to monitor the heartrate etc.? Are you able to connect it to sufferfest + the speedsensor?or does the app's dont care for heartrate? It's feeling to get patchwork/crossover to train indoor :D!

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

@@steflodewyckx4336 Haha, the WHOLE thing is a patchwork, yes! It's doable! Here's a DCRainMaker article about it. Depends on the watch you have: www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/04/quick-how-to-garmin-wearable-heart-rate-broadcasting-to-apps.html

2 very happy men in my house fighting over this Super product

HI Justin. I want a bike trainer budget friendly, but the most quiet or silent possible. I could put a cadence and speed sensor as well. Which do you recommend? The mist important is to be quiet as I live in an apartment and I am in lockdown for the situation of the virus. Cheers from Australia

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Hey, sorry for the super slow reply on this, life has been crazy. This is a problem I relate a lot to, as I was in an apt with a loud trainer for a long time. Honestly, there's no great answer. Kurt Kinetic Road Machines and Cyclops Fluid 2s are cheapish, have accurate power numbers with a speed sensor due to their very predictable power curves, and are decently quite *but* they vibrate a lot. On a non first-floor apartment, they'll make a ton of resonant vibration. If you built an isolation platform for it, maybe you could get away with it, but it’s iffy…. The truly quiet option is the 4iiii Flight trainer that uses magnets to affect your wheel, *but* it’s not that powerful. DCrainmaker says if your FTP is north of 200, it’s not a great option. So it’s silent, but then there’s other limits. It’s also not that cheap at $600USD. Direct drive trainers are quiet, but expensive. Honestly, apartment indoor training is really crappy all around. The Kickr is the only one I felt comfortable using indoors on my upper floor, and even then I stayed mostly in erg mode. With smart trainers, the noise comes from the flywheel speed, so if you’re in erg mode in a lower gear (small ring up front) it’ll stay quieter. Sorry I don’t have a great answer, but I empathize.

@albertorincon2549

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks a lot for your answer! . I live in a first floor and the building is sort concrete on floors and ceilings so maybe can the noise in control. Thanks heaps !

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

@@albertorincon2549 Oooh, that's a big difference! In that case, I'd start with a fluid trainer. You could prooooobably get away with it. They don't have the super loud whine that a lot of standard trainers have, just that big vibration. With a concrete floor on the 1st floor, I bet you get away with it. It's where I'd start at least.

So what if you have a smart wheel on trainer? Is it worth it to upgrade to direct drive (Wahoo Kickr Core?) That’s where I stand. I ride my Kickr Snap 5 days a week and at least 5 hrs a week. My riding is 80/20 indoor/ outdoor. I do have a second bike with a PM for my outdoor riding. Thanks! By the way, I love ERG mode. 😂

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

I need to have a macro that just types out, "Well, it depends," because that's how I start every thought lately. 🤣 Well, it depends! Wheel-ons run the risk of being a touch less accurate due to variations in wheel tightness and pressure. If you moved your PM over to your trainer bike, that would be moot. It's also easily-ish solved by ensuring a consistent pressure / wheel tightness. Wheel-ons also have wear on the tire and don't handle sprints (particularly sudden ones) as well, because the tire can slip. Typically, they are louder than wheel-off trainers (though quieter than wheel on fluid/mag trainers). But overall though, pretty darn solid. I think if you're unsatisfied by noise/accuracy/maintenance/slippage, then sure, DD trainers are 'better,' but if you're currently content, I wouldn't stress much. It's a classic case of, "Better, but does it matter? maybe." Just my 2c as someone who has a DD.

@Raptors0524

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon Thank you for responding. This is good information. I like to ask level headed people what they would do. Since you have a Kickr Core, could you see yourself moving back to a wheel on trainer? Were the differences you experience worth the extra cost? Thank you

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, happy to help. So my needs were atypical; basically: I loved my Kurt, and lived in an apartment at the time. I rode by carrying my trainer to the apt gym and setting up each time I wanted to ride, because it was very loud / vibrates a lot, and I didn't want to bother my neighbors. Once covid hit, and my gym shut down, I had to train in my apt, so I needed a silent trainer. The silence was actually the amin reason I bought a DD trainer. Now I have a house and can make more noise, but still use my Core. I don't think I'll go back, just because I do like DD trainers / erg mode quite a lot, but I also REALLY don't think they're required. Like, yes, they *are* nicer, but it's not a huge deal. Especially if you used your PM indoors, that would eliminate any consistency issues. And even if you don't, just keeping your tire the same and the knob the same keeps things pretty darn close. But I do still use my Kurt every so often, and I actually love having a 'dumb' trainer vs fighting with connection issues (seems like I'm always having wireless problems here and there.) I guess the short version is: I *had* to get a DD smart trainer, but if not, I may or may not have. They're nice, but not world changing.

@Raptors0524

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon this is great! Thanks for your explanation and reasoning. You went into detail and it really helped me out. See, I have my house and really no need to upgrade from the Kickr Snap. I only wanted to upgrade because of the larger flywheel and the better road feel with more accurate sprints. I will keep the snap until it breaks or I outgrow it with my fitness Thank again.

Smart trainers are better due to removing the thought process of training intervals. My Tacx Vortex set up was almost identical to my cyclops fluid 2 in price, but when I only had the cyclops I did get stronger following Robbie Ventura DVDs and going his “feel-o-meter” resistance approach. 😂

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

HOLY CRAP, you just blew my mind. What a trip remembering those Feel o Meter DVDs. Ha, that's straight out of what... 2009? That's awesome. And very true @ removing the thought process, especialyl when you're RIGHT on the edge

I wanna do zwift and do it acurracy I want to know if I upgrade to a smart trainer or get a sensor for 50 on my classic fluid trainer I currently use

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

What's the trainer?

@danieldunstone6128

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon a classic trainer

@danieldunstone6128

3 жыл бұрын

A classic trainer old fashion spin around that wears the tyres out

@danieldunstone6128

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon like a old jet-black where you tie it tighter to tighten resistance

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Gotcha, yeah. The Fluidpro Z1 or 2 are both zpower, so if you got the sensor it should be decently accurate. Zpower is commonly confused to mean "any power estimate,' but that's not really the case. Anyway, Zpower is accurate-ish, but if you want really good power, you'll want a power meter on that trainer. If you don't like the trainer in general (and yeah tire wear is annoying) a smart trainer would fix all that

Hey guys, I don't necessarily need a smart trainer, I just need a quiet one so my neighbors don't kill me, does that mean I still have to go for a smart one because "dumb" ones are just noisy as f?

Why do so many people who ride bikes not look "fit". Bit rude but I dont get how they dont burn so many calories. Or they do but their body doesnt look fit like runners?. Is running harder? I run alot but dont think running is harder than cycling but everyone I see who cycles for cardio just dont look fit at all despite doing it regularly?

but what if I don't have a bike either? what should I get?

@bluechelo3968

Жыл бұрын

Wahoo kickr bike

@johnja9017

Жыл бұрын

@@bluechelo3968 Thanks, ended up just getting the Bike Direct Gravel V for 300 bucks and the Saris H3 for 600

I ride outside. rain snow, outside.

Whoa ! What about a fat sixty year old guy who pretty much only bikes on level rail trails and fairly flat streets ! I have zero interest in competitive speed. What trainer is suitable for me for the winter?😂

Thank you. Lots of good information however pls slow down when you speak.

Can i race with a dumb trainer? Someone said u need a heart monitor and some bluetooth stuff?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

4 жыл бұрын

It depends. If you're using an unsupported trainer (one in which Zwift doesn't have a calibration for,) you'll be limited to 400W maximum, and the accuracy of that number will be pretty hit or miss. You'll need a bluetooth speed sensor, at the least. If you use a supported trainer or Zpower trainer, you'll be limited to 1200W max. Ideally, if you can find a Zpower supported trainer (like the Kurt Road Machine or Cyclops Fluid2,) the power data can actually be pretty reasonably accurate. You'll still need a BT speed sensor to transmit your data to your device. You can absolutely race with a supported trainer, though some users (rightfully or not) may discount your results as inaccurate. I don't think that's QUITE fair personally, because some trainers (like the ZPower trainers) can be pretty decently accurate, but there's no way to know for sure. If you're a Cat A rider looking to be properly competitive, people won't really 'trust' your results if you don't have a real power meter. If you're just looking to ride around Zwift or race in lower catagories, I wouldn't worry about it too much. As for the HR monitor, in more competitive races, some require a HR monitor for your results to be 'official.' There's a third party website called ZwiftPower that tracks race results, and in those races, riders without a HRM are DQd from the 'official' results. Again, this is more for the A and some B rides. And if you just don't care about 'official' results, that's fine too, Zwift isn't going to boot you from the race. Here's a link to look at the supported wheel-on dumb trainers, ideally you get one that says ZPower in the notes: support.zwift.com/en_us/wheel-on-trainers-r1B5nQWxS

@miker5624

4 жыл бұрын

@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks for the detailed answer and link it helps a lot! I don't know if I'll race alot but if I'm gonna buy stuff i want it as an option.

Is the lifeline tt-02 fluid trainer smart?

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

No, that would be considered a 'dumb' trainer, as it just uses fluid to provide resistance. For accurate power data, you'd need a power meter of some kind.

@JustinDoesTriathlon

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! Dcrainmaker did testing on it. Surprisingly close