I’m learning more from the University of KZread than any college I’ve ever attended in my life! Well... those college experiences got me to this realization.

valar

17 күн бұрын

Everything valuable I learned in college, I did not learn in class lol

raja babu

2 ай бұрын

Because your university didn't have great minds like Roger Penrose to enlighten you this way...

Antonio Brown

2 ай бұрын

true

Mark Compton

5 ай бұрын

@David Lloyd-Jones I'd be wary in how much credit I give some of these 'social-network' monoliths. There are many questionable ethics and 'knowledge' being aggressively pushed by non-critical echo chambers. P.S. KZread can be equally dangerous for a curious and developing mind, it just pales in comparison to the level of corruption within the education sector. 😉See what I did here?

Joseph Hall

5 ай бұрын

@Looking Up You can generally tell. Listen for things like "I believe" or "it's my opinion" versus "this is how the fuck she goes boys" or something like that. LmO

So incredible to see Professor Penrose win the Nobel Prize. One of the greatest minds.

Kelly Swenson

8 ай бұрын

As true as what we’ve just listened to

M D

Жыл бұрын

@S To math is not a category. But you can abuse me all you like. Chemistry is almost entirely mathematical these days, but it is still awarded for Chemistry.

S To

Жыл бұрын

@M D You have no idea what you are talking about. Many physicists won specifically "Noble Prize" because they provided the math supporting it's theory. Alfred Nobel never specifically said his wealth is subjected to "math" alone, but that is utterly silly to say that noble prices was not given due to the math provided supporting physics. "E=MC2"

I hope Penrose lives many years more, he is a gift for humanity :)

Léovani Payseur

10 ай бұрын

@GB3770 what about "mind?" where would mind fit into that for you?

책사TV

Жыл бұрын

Me too

David Thorbjørnsen

Жыл бұрын

@Science Revolution Seems like they did a fucking good job with the science regarding the device you are using for internet, also electricity, optics etc.

I love that this guy draws his own visuals. He doesn't need any flash... and is astounding. What a treasure.

Absolute genius. Once in a century mind.

책사TV

Жыл бұрын

Yes

Alexander Abrashev

Жыл бұрын

@Tommy Kvammen :DD

Tommy Kvammen

Жыл бұрын

@Frank DiMeglio You're a bot, aren't you.

Sedit T

Жыл бұрын

@Frank DiMeglio Frank, do you just have a bunch of premade stuff you regularly copy paste? We have had this same exact discussion letter for letter... misspelling for misspelling, multiple times on the internet. IF you were right, and you're not because you literally do not know what you are talking about and just make up shit from absolute surface level knowledge of the subjects where is your Nobel prize frank? No one is stopping you dude, go get it. Post your "work" to peer review and let them shut your nonsense down. Your gibberish means absolutely nothing to me because it is utter word salad.

If only this information was available when I studied psychology and philosophy in college 20 years ago. This is the most exciting and compelling theory I've ever seen.

Gerard Jones

Жыл бұрын

the information was available, I've been reading Penrose since the 1980's.

*Penrose* 0:00:05 New Physics to understand consciousness 0:00:28 1) Views about consciousness 0:01:40 2) Aspects of consciousness: understanding, intelligence, awareness 0:02:43 3) Chess: difference between computation & understanding *Hameroff* 0:46:51 Neurobiology of the _Orch OR_ theory of consciousness

Sir Roger is brilliant. Dr Hameroff gives surprisingly clear explanations.

I only have a gcse in mathematics but I find this fascinating. I like the way roger penrose explains concepts instead of just baffling you with maths language I would never be able to understand. Stuart hameroff is amazing!

David T

2 ай бұрын

You have to be smart to understand some things, but it takes a genius to explain them well.

Fantastic to see these two together. I think their Orch-OR theory is the only one that that makes consciousness something we can experiment with and study. Of course, it leads in directions that many scientists are unhappy with, because it definitively ties consciousness to the nature of the universe, and some neurologists and physicists fear where that takes us. But I believe that what Orch-OR offers us is not only the explanation (at least in part) for consciousness, but also for the nature of reality itself. It may well be that once we find the answer to "what is consciousness?" it might bring us answers to some of the fundamental questions about the wider universe.

Peri Urban

2 жыл бұрын

@Gene Whitman I think these questions fall under the remit of philosophy rather than broader science. Philosophy is where the human mind goes in the absence of knowledge. If we knew that the mind was contained in the microtubules, then we might be able to look there and see what we find, and then the answer as to how it all works might be revealed.

Gene Whitman

2 жыл бұрын

Consciousness being fundamental tothe universe vs being a 'byproduct' of life on this planet seems to be a real dividing line for scientists.

"Life is a Quantum process" Stuart Hameroff nailed it.Love from Sweden

Tadesan

Жыл бұрын

That's the same statement as "life is a chemical process".

Max Headroom

Жыл бұрын

Consciousness certainly seems to be. I think the Buddha nailed it. LIFE is "Dukkha" lol.

Dr. Penrose is brilliant and one of the few physicists looking in right direction.

Loren Youngren

Жыл бұрын

@Broken Hill Man he makes sense. When l read The Emperor's New Mind l found one who was explaining my views on consciousness not being computation.

Broken Hill Man

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know he is looking in the "right direction"?

L. G. A.

2 жыл бұрын

He is trying BUT lots of lecturing but he HAS to do his own experiments and proofs and so far.... we are still looking... but I don't think so... time is running out. he is getting too old.

Amazing, he even said about psychedelics enhancing counsciousness and that it can be detected with quantum experiments. Amazing,

Having these 2 together on this topic is awesome!!

Penrose has lain bare countless scientific threads to pursue in our understanding of how this all ties together. Just amazing.

These guys are awesome. I bet it'd be great to research with them

Thanks lot to great work done by Sir Roger Penrose & Dr. Stuart Hameroff

Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff: Thank you for being awesome! Thank you for keeping an example of academia that is kind and true. There's great love for you from so many who are starved. God bless.

Transparencies in a Power Point. Fantastic. I am pleased with the additional entropy increase in the universe required to pull that off.

Penrose presentation slides, like his book illustrations, are fantastic.

Summarizing my take away: Consciousness is fundamental and the brain, through micro-tubuli connects to it, right? Consciousness as a fundamental field? Very, very interesting to listen to these two top scientists. Even if one day science will be able to explain consciousness, the mystery of life will be even more amazing and the question will probably be: How is it possible that all this came into play? From nothing, by coincidence? Excellent session even for laymen like me.

the legend

17 күн бұрын

​@5 Fold Understanding but you forgot that the universe has organization as one of its most important laws, everything is connected and interconnected as if they were threads forming a fabric. organization exists, the difference is that orch or theory explains it in the correct way different from religion.

yarn

8 ай бұрын

​@Michelle Hettinger getting beyond one's arrogance of intellect is both tough and easy. rooting for you.

Michelle Hettinger

8 ай бұрын

@yarn you should write a book about because you ain't contributing anything as is

yarn

8 ай бұрын

@Michelle Hettinger which doesn't at all answer or speak to his point, and actually just further proves it

Dr. Penrose's transparencies are my reasons for living.

Thank you. You have confirmed so much for me . Amazingly beautiful talk

Since the lockdown started I've been waiting for a new Penrose lecture ,thanks for sharing .

Legal Fiction Natural Fact

Жыл бұрын

Ok dr bronner. :) But really, i agree that gravity can now be dumped in favor of electromagnetism.

Frank DiMeglio

2 жыл бұрын

WHY HABITUAL AND SELFISH LIARS SUCH AS BRIAN GREENE, SABINE HOSSENFELDER, AND DAVID SPERGEL ARE PART OF A MUCH WIDER AND SINISTER NIGHTMARE THAT IS RAPIDLY UNFOLDING: We always begin with typical, common, and ordinary experience in establishing physical FUNDAMENTALS/truths. LIFE is about living. TEACH REAL PHYSICS. E=mc2 IS F=ma. The truth is the way. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. Modern physics is BIG BUSINESS that is far more concerned with making money than it is with making sense and TRULY helping people IN GENERAL. THINK. They have their business equipment (telescopes, rockets, war making/destructive devices, nuclear power, nuclear pollution/waste, particle colliders, satellites, microscopes, etc.) and their other business practices (e.g., courses, books, tuition, "peer" "review") that they use to "corner the market" on what they then sell and present to you as legitimate and "ESSENTIAL" business products and "truths". They make ENORMOUS amounts of MONEY by changing experience from what is natural. In other words, to a very disturbing and significant extent, they are FABRICATING reality and the "truth" along with it. HOWEVER, TRUTH, reality, AND nature/natural experience go hand in hand. FACT. Indeed, if we walk away from reality, reality walks away from us. (STOP watching television.) In fact, the big picture is ESSENTIAL. It is called having common sense. The INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. INDEED, the big question is who is TRULY and actually "BENEFITTING" from all of this; and for what reasons? For example, are our tax dollars actually being utilized WISELY? Indeed, is being a BILLIONAIRE actually and truly representative or constitutive of philanthropy !!? NO, IT IS NOT. Climate change/environmental destruction IS VERY REAL, and it is absolutely catastrophic. Stop the rip-offs, the lies/liars, the delusional nonsense, the speculative fantasies, wasteful environmental destruction, the fear mongering, the escapist hysteria, the clowning around, and OUR BEING DELIBERATELY AND DECEITFULLY DUMBED DOWN REGARDING WHAT IS OUR PRECIOUS AND TRULY PRICELESS PHYSICS/PHYSICAL EXPERIENCE. By Frank DiMeglio

A Kumar

2 жыл бұрын

@Frank DiMeglio Can I politely suggest you sett up your own utube channel to share your views, I think it is overbearing to send such a long thread, I doubt many people will read what you have written,thanks Bud .

Frank DiMeglio

2 жыл бұрын

THE CLEAR, BALANCED, AND UNDENIABLE PROOF OF THE FACT THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA: E=mc2 IS F=ma. With the MIDDLE DISTANCE in/of SPACE AND the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE in fundamental equilibrium AND BALANCE, a given PLANET (INCLUDING WHAT IS THE EARTH) necessarily sweeps out EQUAL AREAS in equal times in accordance with perpetual motion AND the UNIVERSAL fact that E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is then CLEARLY proven to be gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE. Importantly, BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. TIME CLEARLY necessitates and proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR. The BALANCE of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. What is THE EYE is ALSO the body ON BALANCE. Objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great !!! The EARTH/ground CLEARLY constitutes what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE. Now consider what is the blue sky. The Earth is ALSO BLUE as water. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. GREAT. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Now, VERY CAREFULLY consider what is BALANCED BODILY/VISUAL EXPERIENCE. Great !!!! Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution; AND the Moon is necessarily fixed or basically constant in it's form and shape.) "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/AS what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE.) E=MC2 IS F=ma as what is the middle distance in/of SPACE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. So, gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. Beautiful. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great. THEREFORE: E=MC2 AS F=MA CLEARLY PROVES (ON BALANCE) WHY AND HOW THE PROPER AND FULL UNDERSTANDING OF TIME (AND TIME DILATION) UNIVERSALLY ESTABLISHES THE FACT THAT ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY: A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Indeed, the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA. Great. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. I have mathematically unified physics/physical experience, as I have CLEARLY proven that E=mc2 IS F=ma in what is a truly universal and BALANCED fashion. By Frank DiMeglio

Imgay Asheck

2 жыл бұрын

You and me both :)

Outstanding. This is the best collection of supporting data from Penrose and Hameroff in one place. Really beautiful post. Thank you.

the legend

17 күн бұрын

​@Nickolas Gaspar the quantum vacuum is the biggest mystery in the universe, without it nothing would exist and even if something did exist it would be finite and would probably die within a period of time, but what is clear is that the quantum vacuum creates matter out of absolute nothingness and that when an atom dies it returns to this quantum vacuum becoming nothing again, just the fact that there is a quantum vacuum instead of simply nothing is already supernatural.

Nickolas Gaspar

2 жыл бұрын

@Frank DiMeglio yes we know that this is what you interpret....the questions are a. why b. why do you write this on youtube and not in a physics journal. c. what does that has to do with the biological phenomenon of consciousness...... if you answer by repeating your claims....you will verify my guess (that you are suffering some type of brain damage)

Frank DiMeglio

2 жыл бұрын

"Mass"/ENERGY are linked AND balanced, as gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND balanced; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves balanced inertia/inertial resistance, as ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy IS gravity. E=mc2 IS F=ma. By Frank DiMeglio

Nickolas Gaspar

2 жыл бұрын

@Frank DiMeglio I always believed that in KZread's comments some day I would find a Nobel winning essay.........lol

Frank DiMeglio

2 жыл бұрын

THE CLEAR, BALANCED, AND UNDENIABLE PROOF OF THE FACT THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA: E=mc2 IS F=ma. With the MIDDLE DISTANCE in/of SPACE AND the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE in fundamental equilibrium AND BALANCE, a given PLANET (INCLUDING WHAT IS THE EARTH) necessarily sweeps out EQUAL AREAS in equal times in accordance with perpetual motion AND the UNIVERSAL fact that E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is then CLEARLY proven to be gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE. Importantly, BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. TIME CLEARLY necessitates and proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR. The BALANCE of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. What is THE EYE is ALSO the body ON BALANCE. Objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great !!! The EARTH/ground CLEARLY constitutes what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE. Now consider what is the blue sky. The Earth is ALSO BLUE as water. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. GREAT. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Now, VERY CAREFULLY consider what is BALANCED BODILY/VISUAL EXPERIENCE. Great !!!! Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution; AND the Moon is necessarily fixed or basically constant in it's form and shape.) "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/AS what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE.) E=MC2 IS F=ma as what is the middle distance in/of SPACE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. So, gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. Beautiful. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great. THEREFORE: E=MC2 AS F=MA CLEARLY PROVES (ON BALANCE) WHY AND HOW THE PROPER AND FULL UNDERSTANDING OF TIME (AND TIME DILATION) UNIVERSALLY ESTABLISHES THE FACT THAT ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY: A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Indeed, the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA. Great. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. I have mathematically unified physics/physical experience, as I have CLEARLY proven that E=mc2 IS F=ma in what is a truly universal and BALANCED fashion. By Frank DiMeglio

I have thoroughly enjoyed the work of Roger Penrose, Stuart Hameroff, and Anirban Bandyopadhyay. The condensed matter question was interesting. Why lattices structures?

Brilliant. Thank you for sharing. The need for a theory of quantum measurement that collapses the wave function is the central crisis of physics. (The many-worlds theory just restates the crisis in a different form) Listening to them was a privilege. It’s amazing to hear how they are applying the most advanced understanding of basic physics and neurophysiology to something so extraordinary as consciousness. I don’t know that they have the right answer but what they have put forward is more coherent and grounded than anything else I have come across. The only weak part for me was the chess game analogy. Surely the best chess AI could be presented with that game? Couldn’t Penrose have got this tested? I can’t see why an advanced chess algorithm will sacrifice the bishop since a losing position is worse than a draw. But Penrose is correct that we know things that aren’t computable with a Turing machine. AI has no answer for that. That doesn’t mean, however, that good AI systems won’t be superior to humans in many activities. Where AI is cheaper it will displace human labour as the logic of production for profit is our system of social organisation.

M Frusciante

6 ай бұрын

That last sentence is a worry no? In the long run won't most everything will be cheaper through ai? And those with the capability to utilize it will win, therefore be at the top of almost every industry? So won't every industry seek to eliminate as many humans as possible from the operating costs. So if those with ai (places we depend on for essential and non-essential products/services) are extracting money from consumers through the cheaper costs, or just total dominance of their marketplace, mostly eliminate having to pay the human worker, how will consumers get money back? Is our money taking a one way trip? Is optimizing for profits eventually leading to failure of the whole system? Or it's maximizing the imbalance of money and all the things it represents? Sorry if a stupid question. Haven't looked a lot but I haven't really heard many people talk about this, so suspecting/hoping I just don't understand something, or I'm being cynical. (Am I overestimating ai's/robots impact?)

Sener Zen

Жыл бұрын

About the chess example: He did mention that a sufficiently powerful chess program can see the draw. The reason chess programs of today sacrifice the bishop is to prevent the 30 move rule taking effect. He showed it as a simplified example to the difference between computation and understanding. A human can understand it is a draw by simply looking a bit for a few seconds. Yet a computer has to make long calculations to arrive at the same conclusion if it ever arrives at it.

T S

2 жыл бұрын

definitly!

Roger Penrose is incredible. I have to say, of course, so is Stuart Hameroff. How a guy like Roger can bridge to this world and facilitate this step is beyond me. I think he has something though - remarkably, both physics and maths (OMG) are unable to make the next step because they are dependant upon how human consciousness works.

I watched this while I'm reading The Entropy Law and the Economic Process by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen. There has to be some synthesis between these two concepts. One of GRs points is about the non-computabity of thermodynamic systems and the need for novel mutations in genomes for organisms to be able to adapt to a qualitatively changing environment. He then extends this to economics trying to model them thermodynamically similar to ecological systems. Gonna finish reading that and then watch this lecture a few more times. I feel like understanding and evolution might share a non-computable origin. If anyone else is interested in talking with me about this leave me a comment. Everyone should read GRs book regardless.

GekkoBear

Жыл бұрын

@Tadesan I'm sure you wouldn't understand it anyway 😊

Tadesan

Жыл бұрын

Not very interested in reading a book on economics written by a jew.

Kirstin Strand

Жыл бұрын

@GekkoBear just getting old, and paying attention helps too; but yes, short cuts could result in time for additional explorations of fields of interest. However, Meditation and Mushrooms, in the same breath? Dreams and Mushrooms, medicine - they each have their unique role.

Kirstin Strand

Жыл бұрын

@Gene Whitman human behavior can be predicted. Not moment to moment, but definitely longer term. Some people have a better ability to make human predictions, however.

NAGESH H

Жыл бұрын

@Gene Whitman It's another gimmick to confine it.. Behaviour predictions can be a derivative not computational as the required mathematics exceeds current limitations.

Fantastic lecture; Penrose' mathematics was quite hard to follow at times (not my strong point to be fair), but the Neuroscience aspect was fascinating. Worked in Alzheimer's research for my Masters, and microtubule dysfunction through mTau hyperphosphorylation was my main interest. Very interesting to see how microtubules could directly control information storage (possibly short-term memory formation) through Quantum processes, and leads to a strong possibility that it's Tau and microtubule dysfunction, not amyloid-mediated synaptic degeneration, that could regulate short term memory loss in Alzheimers.

His contribution is very unique. He picks up the points other scientists most likely discard. ー godlikenessー

valar

2 жыл бұрын

As he talks, he takes leaps in thought that are like a challenge to others to follow.

It's interesting how many physicists go after Penrose's collaborator Stuart Hameroff, the anaesthesiologist, in debates, but none (to my knowledge) will challenge Penrose himself. He is so intimidating that everyone is scared of him. I think he's the finest mind in physics today, and I hope he lives to 100 to continue spreading his ideas.

An interesting point for me comes at the 1:30:20 mark where Dr Hameroff says that "knowing is feeling, and that's consciousness". This helps me to make connections between these ideas about quantum consciousness and the work of Antonio Damasio' work on embodied consciousness and the vital role of the body within the formation of the brain, the mind, and consciousness. And that occurs across all species.

Consciousness, Mind and Thought, the 3 principles in life. Without one the other two would not exist

I hope they both live long lives, Penrose & Hammeroff.

This is so interesting thank you Dr. Hameroff and Dr. Penrose.

Is possible that Sir Roger Pence are going to get a Nobel Prize one more time.I beleaved that Leonard Susskin are going to get a Nobel Prize,very soon and it seems like this amazing american proffesor Stuart Hameroff is a candidat for a nobel price too. Love from Sweden!

Thank you Professor Penrose on a fascinating lecture! I was going to correct your 30 move To 50 move chess drawing rule but I am 6 months tardy as a gifted Grandmaster in the audience already beat me to it! Curious that you might be related to the great British Grandmaster Jonathan Penrose?

Preston Westenbarger

10 ай бұрын

Roger and Jonathan are in fact related! The entire family is full of amazingly talented people. Look up Jonathan's Wiki and scroll down to "personal life".

I am a follower of Tom Campbell but I do see parallels within this research, that is truly compelling. Campbell states that this experience we call life may actually be a soul training entropy reductor!

In a world of PowerPoint presentations, one man stands alone...

Bubo Sibiricus

Жыл бұрын

if it can't be said with pen on acetate, don't bother saying it -- paraphrasing the founder of sun microsystems

bruce hobbs

Жыл бұрын

@Brennan Noble l

blondwiththewind 2

Жыл бұрын

LOL 😆.....ecellent!!!

blondwiththewind 2

Жыл бұрын

😂

Troy Berecz

Жыл бұрын

@Voidisyinyang Voidisyinyang Bingo.

Oh, wow...! I forgot how much I loved Penrose's hand drawn slides! He is so cool!

Found delight to hear Professor Penrose's Nobel lecture.

This is truly an amazing presentation and really getting my gears turning gonna be thinking about this while playing csgo after work lol

I'm interested in panpsychism and found this comparison of interest. Said by Dr. Stuart Hameroff from 59:55 - 1:00:16 "Orchestration idea is that as Roger said the proto conscious that are occurring in the atmosphere randomly, ubiquitously all the time which seems bizarre until you compare it to panpyschism which is even more bizarre because that is a permanent state whereas this would be a process, a sequence of events"

One of the most brilliant minds humanity has produced. May you still have a long life and stay with us for many more years Sir,

Interesting as it all was, it felt like going deeply into the chemical structure and compound of each brushstroke in Van Gogh's Starry Night (to use an analogy). The analysis only amplifies the mysterious relationship, if any, between the chemical structure and the majesty of the painting as experienced by the art lover. In some sense, the constellations of the chemical structures are necessary to the painting's existence, but the analysis says nothing about the experience of that picture, or the various possible feelings/emotions/associations /meanings the painting evokes. There's still no clear connection between chemical composition/structure AND meaning, or how meanings are generated. (The "WHEN such-and-such is/are present" should not be conflated with a HOW.) How is it that Van Gogh's painting has moved and inspired many people? Can you explain that in terms of the colors' chemical constituents? Moreover, while the painting is awesome, a detailed analysis of its colors' chemical structure is rather dry, tedious, and over-technical by comparison. These guys did a fantastic job - but the fruit of their analysis, while clarifying some things, deepens the mystery of consciousness at the same time.

Rob Ellis

Жыл бұрын

What were you looking for here? It's a science seminar.

watcher215

2 жыл бұрын

Very well stated. Thanks.

Christopher Jones

2 жыл бұрын

I think that painting sucks.

Harry "Nic" Nicholas

2 жыл бұрын

i get what you mean, but i think you're over doing it, you have to be pretty cold not to like starry night or sunflowers, but AI is beginning to do just what you're saying, i don't say it's good, i don't say it's bad, jus sayin.

Knowing where you end and something else begins Consciousness seems to me to be the constant observation and shearing of boundaries when knowingly or unknowingly acting upon any one or another notion of one's self and or others in any given situation Or not We've been made into placeholders for tables at which we will never sit much less eat Completely out of ignorance of what is being made to be a busy agenda for some reason And for that reason all are laced into a train of thought Or not So then... What coloring book did you get to be given And have you thrown it away yet??? I guess when you stub your toe on purpose it's not the same as when you do it on accident Or is it??? Dunt dunt DUUUUUNNNNNNNN WE MAY NEVER KNOW OOOHHH THE HUMANITY Someone is thinking is your thinker thinking about thinking yet? Noooooo... Should we be damned to just channel surf instituted trends and narratives forever now? You're one of my favorite thinkers Great work

A peaceful sense of satisfaction and joy to get a peek into the mind of our higher consciousness manifesting into space time but my bet is .. originating from hyper space. Life itself, an expression of the intelligence - read organised data processing of spending that resides beyond space-time and yet totally computable to create the reality we all know.

Such amazing gentlemen. 1:39:30 haha. And Penrose is really, REALLY heavy stuff, I tried to read his book "The Road to Reality" and was flabbergasted, lol

Incredible work

just LOVE the way he has prepared his slides

Amanda Morriss

Жыл бұрын

stick with physics -

I Am an idiot but

Жыл бұрын

Artist

I am wondering if your 30 move rule in chess somehow applies to t.o.e. which einstein tried and failed. Loved you comments appraising using infinite properties which obviously our brain does with ease in calculus. Just define the new computational goal is an "infinite Computing machine ". Beyond those comments I believe as you and Hameroff on quantum (Repulsive) gravity in life and cns. Powerful ideas. Finally using monopoles in soliton physics can be a wave and. . , soliton objects or particle at same time in magnetic fields. It jumps in the boundaries of s w e. In a vacuum of consciousness presumably. You and stuart did very good here . I went to u of a Tucson 1964 my uncle was on board of regents then. I did a patent of something like this in 2002. So don't copy my patent.

Penrose is a scientist of surreal brilliance.

Man that dude is super fast in communication. That's kind of why I commute to compute, or indeed use my voice as a choice to object or be agreed , on where we're being led, time will surely tell, going round in circles or a circus wishing well.

Never seen the two of them together, following OrchOR for almost a decade now!

Blitz Analysis

Жыл бұрын

@Sam Rowbotham you should have mentioned poincare's recurrence.

Ryan Armasu

Жыл бұрын

@Nickolas Gaspar p

Nickolas Gaspar

2 жыл бұрын

@valar well I agree, that theory does need the supernatural assumption. The problem is that if a theory has to assume a causal mechanism (supernatural or not) then it's not longer a theory but an unjustified speculation! In order to justify supernatural causality in a descriptive framework, the causal mechanism needs to be described , not assumed. So anyone who feels the need to propose a scietific theory for our brain properties and include a supernatural explanation , he will first need to prove the supernatural realm and then describe the mechanism by which this realm Interacts with our world and causes the phenomenon. What brilliant minds in science say is nothing more than a fallacious argument from authority. Introducing unfalsifiable realms in our descriptive theories of science....is not a "new science" but pseudo Philosophy. Now what you think about my rational objections is irrelevant. Arguments should rise and fall on their own merits independent if what we think. The fact is that the supernatural has zero explanatory not descriptive power mainly because we don't have methodologies capable to verify and quantify it. So a theory that needs the supernatural as a cause to explain a phenomenon is indistinguishable to the claim "magic did it". Again that is not science and can never become "new science". Take care mate!

valar

2 жыл бұрын

@Nickolas Gaspar You just watched a presentation on a theory of mind that has attracted furious criticism partly because it leaves the door open for parapsychological phenomena. One of the most brilliant minds in science said that we probably need a new science to explain consciousness. So I think you are not in a strong position to act cocky about smashing people's existential hopes. Just because something eases people's existential anxieties does not make it wrong :P

47:00 - Bookmark for self, immunoflourescence stain of a neurone, constituents outlined by Dr Stuart Hameroff. 1:08:33 - Potency of anaesthetics at select pressures, when compared with Olive oil at 37 degrees.

I hope that more research into the nature of consciousness is done. I think it isn't studied as much as it should be, and I think that better understanding of it would be beneficial to civilization at large.

Jararaca Voadora

Жыл бұрын

It seems better to understand memory and other processes thay may produce what we call consciousness

Jararaca Voadora

Жыл бұрын

Im skeptical because consciousness is so subjective

This is what prime time network television should look like. (Edit: Should have looked like)

brenda williams

11 ай бұрын

@Shaun Graham I listen to stay focused to my own interest. Wonderful lecture.

Stephen Thompson Thompson

Жыл бұрын

Hear hear

Trump one

Жыл бұрын

You'll take " the view" and like it

Kirstin Strand

Жыл бұрын

@Antisocial Atheist PBS is also Corporate sponsored. Just subtle. But they do influence.

Kirstin Strand

Жыл бұрын

@Spiritual Psychotherapy Services I found your KZread channel, but there are many introductory videos. I only want the name of the book referenced in penrose video. This. My story the past 20 years is the enactment of a 45 year old dream. And now, I forgot where I left off, in my original post. I'll look for it now. Thank you.

This video, filmed in 2020, is a breath of fresh air for those who have been trying to keep up with the views of these authors over their long and oft-contested evolution. Neuropsychologists have tried to find the basis of consciousness for three decades. One of the great physicists, Oxford Professor Roger Penrose, demonstrates that it may begin in proto-conscious. That brings it down to a physical level, since proto-conscious elements may be arising all the time in dynamic physical systems, like the atmosphere. Penrose and Stuart Hameroff, M.D., argue that this shows something is wrong with quantum theory. To solve what's wrong, they say you must go back to the Schrödinger equation, à la the half-dead/half-alive cat. Schrödinger conjured up his familiar fictional feline to show this is untenable, rendering his own theory absurd. Prof. Penrose believes that QM isn't just incomplete, it needs a good stiff fix.

I’d love to have an afternoon drinking with these two and after 6 pints, get their real thoughts on science and it’s relationship with consciousness studies

Where science meets spirituality (jmho). I love the study about microtubule....and it`s only gaining momentum. The whole quantum consciousness idea is awesome, I believe it can solve the problem of people using religion to fight wars. This gives me hope for our planet 😃 How awesome would it be if we had a planet where the first thing a person would think when she or he met someone new they would think; "what can I learn from you ?" Thank you very much for the amazing upload. Peace 😃

JD Kingsley

2 жыл бұрын

Using religion to fight wars? How if anything this further proves the lies of a god or any deity for that matter. This disarms it all.

Both of them have really outstanding minds. But Roger Penrose's is even more so. Hard to find words appropriate to qualify his mental capacities.

I was so happy to see Roger Penrose get the Nobel Prize. There is no more wide-ranging intellect than his in the world today.

Schmetter Ling

Жыл бұрын

It's true that he deserved it, but it came a little too late. The Penrose who did all of that work is long gone.

What a marvellous lecture! Just one small technicality: at 4:27 it is a 50 move rule, not 30.

a random guy on the internet

8 ай бұрын

@Scott Young he is his brother

Scott Young

Жыл бұрын

Quite so GM! I wonder if Dr. Penrose is any relation to our great Jonathan?

Thank you for this content!

Love Penrose he's a real genius,

Frank DiMeglio

Жыл бұрын

Compare Penrose to DiMeglio. He is political. He's weak. WHY ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS UNIFIED AND BALANCED WITH/AS WHAT IS GRAVITY: Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY are LINKED AND BALANCED opposites, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Therefore, Einstein's equations and Maxwell's equations are unified (given the addition of a fourth spatial dimension); AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma; AS TIME DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ACCORDINGLY, Einstein's equations predict that SPACE is expanding OR contracting in and with TIME; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT !!! (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Accordingly, the rotation of the Moon MATCHES it's revolution. "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent WITH/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Accordingly, objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course); AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. THE SUN purely exemplifies time DILATION. INSTANTANEITY is FUNDAMENTAL. Time DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT !!! The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. Let's compare this directly with BOTH a falling object AND the speed of light (c). Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND describes what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Time DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma. INSTANTANEITY is FUNDAMENTAL to the FULL and proper understanding of physics/physical experience. Ultimately and truly, TIME is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The ultimate unification of physics/physical experience combines, BALANCES, AND includes opposites, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. It ALL makes perfect sense. THINK !!! The Earth that undergoes time DILATION IS thus represented (ON BALANCE) as what is A POINT in the night sky, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. (So, notice that the BLUE SKY IS no longer visible. Think.) E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is FULLY proven. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Alas, the INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. I have truly, CLEARLY, AND MATHEMATICALLY unified physics/physical experience. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. (Notice the black space of THE EYE, AND the DOME of a person's eye is ALSO visible.) THE EARTH is ALSO blue. Again, E=mc2 IS F=ma. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. Time dilation proves that E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma, AS electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. It ALL makes perfect sense. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. By Frank DiMeglio

it's sort of interesting how the dipole oscillations have a common mode peak around the blue light region, which is the color of the sky during the day, i wonder if we might find structural difference between diurnal and nocturnal animals that points us to that kind of resonant frequency not being present in nocturnal creatures.

Great discussion. You are the creator of your own reality and destiny. Law of Attraction. My book is coming out soon.

I enjoyed this presentation. Have you ever heard about "the sun book" by hyslop? The book is over a hundred years old and talks about the same material.

So I wonder what consciousness actually IS. We all know, but can we define it? This is excellent btw.

Lucas Heijdeman

Жыл бұрын

Conciousness is if there is something like to be something. There is nothing that is like being a table. But there is something that is like being a cow.

Giedrius Misiukas

Жыл бұрын

@Albert Ralph interesting point

Albert Ralph

2 жыл бұрын

Well I think they nailed it by saying that life is a quantum process, and that even non-living things are a result of consciousness, just SLOWER. He didn't say, "due to architecture," but it would seem to be implied. This theory is the closest I have seen to reality given the literature in so many fields.

His transparencies somehow encapsulate Penrose's playful brilliance

Phumgwate Nagala

Жыл бұрын

He is holding up the whole projector/transparency industry on his shoulders

8 minutes in and I'm watching a 20 minute explainer of a slide. This might take a while. Also could we purchase Dr. Penrose a clip-on microphone? :)

T S

2 жыл бұрын

YES

Consciousness is quantum, not sure why it took us so long to realize this. It makes so much sense.

Jay S

Жыл бұрын

@riten enlighten me.

riten

Жыл бұрын

@Jay S don't act smarter then u are please

Jay S

Жыл бұрын

@JD Kingsley who is "we"? lol

JD Kingsley

Жыл бұрын

@Jay S we know little.

'Consciousness' is the evolving faculty of thinking. In thinking about thoughts, 'consciousness' becomes more acutely aware of itself. This in itself is how we can determine its necessarily emergent nature.. In other creatures we can see the actions brought about by thoughts. We can observe the process and deduce the necessities of the situation. In Humans, the process has simply moved on to another stage, the 'thinking about thoughts', which we call 'consciousness'..

My 'neural network' is a bit different as it's a physical network model with each-to-every subnet, themselves joined in an each-to-every network, as recursively layered or flat as you like, with whatever cardinallity you want.... Each node is a processor and the connectors can read, write and transmit data. Each connector is shared between 2 nodes. The memory to processor size ratio scales well for a super computer.

Pure Consciousness. ...

"Consciousness goes all the way down to the structure of the universe." That would certainly explain a great many things, wouldn't it? My next thought though is "It's a shame intelligence doesn't seem to do the same." 😬 "I'm sure if a potato can do it our brains can do it." Not a wager I would make with some of the people I've met over the years. lol

Gene Whitman

2 жыл бұрын

@raushan kumar Different people in different parts of the world discovered this as well. Some before Buddha.

Guard Dog

2 жыл бұрын

As I'm sure someone else probably did before him, and another before that one, and so forth back to the beginning of the human race. People have the tendency to forget what has already been learned, and have to learn it all over again. A real shame, that.

raushan kumar

2 жыл бұрын

Buddha discovered these things 2500 years ago.

I am currently working on a Stark Theory of Everything using experimentation to prove my theory which will be quicker and more useful than use to prove it mathematically or theoretically. I agree that the tortoise bring us back to 0 at a cellular level also.

interesting because recently ive been using vibrations to treat the throbbing in my knee from arthritis and inflamation. It works as in the throbbing stops leaving just a small ache which then the ache disappears for a while. So once twice a day i give it some vibrations and dont take pain killers.

Dogsbollox

2 жыл бұрын

I've got a sore bollock were do I buy the contraption.😂😂

Harry "Nic" Nicholas

2 жыл бұрын

pleasure travels faster than pain, the signals from pain move along the nerves at a lower speed than pleasure signals (or they cover a greater distance - i'm doing this from memory) , it's why you rub you foot when you stub your toe, it eases the pain.

Seth Horras

2 жыл бұрын

@Green Light Lol nice

Yes, we need new physics and new maths for defining and simulating consciousness.

I listened to this in my sleep last night and had the craziest lucid dream in my life.

Giedrius Misiukas

Жыл бұрын

:)

Penrose just seems to be more credible than most.

Read an article in the tome-like magazine World, in which Penrose seemed to state that in a certain experiment they detected people reacting to a stimulus before it occurred.

Is the phenomena of phantom limbs at all relevant to this conversation? During their presentation the question was asked if consciousness also exists in the peripheral nervous system. Anyone who has just watched this presentation can warm their hands by a fire and experience the feeling that that heat is acting at that distant location (their hands). A common answer to this would be that the feeling is not actually happening at your hands but in your brain, and that perception that what you believe is happening at your hands is in a sense a illusion. Simultaneously we are forced to see that this is all a carefully constructed and essential illusion (it would be disastrous if the perception that we experience on our hands were crossed with the perception that we experience on our feet [nevertheless cases of this sort of thing have happened in the past] ). My question about phantom limbs is to ask that perhaps not only locality/distance is something that is currently beyond our understanding when consciousness is considered, but perhaps also time. And my example is this: someone loses their leg in an accident, and they experience the common phenomena of a phantom limb. They may experience pain or a variety of other sensations in that limb which no longer exists. The neurons in their brain which once received sensations from that leg in their skull still exist. So they may continue to experience sensations of that leg for some time and often forget that they no longer have that leg. Although I have been trying to understand Penrose for more than 10 years I must still admit I understand very little of what he is saying as I have no appreciable physics or mathematics background. So let me just go ahead and ask this question likely simultaneously revealing how little of any of this I really understand: Is it fair to say that the sensation that the individual feels with the phantom limb, would Penrose proffer, that the phantom limb which now “exists” is quantum entangled with the limb that in the past existed?! A more broad, relevant and profound question is that of memory in general. Are our experiences of memory in general a live quantum entanglement with events that are happening in the past? This seems difficult to believe as our memories are often corrupted and we cannot remember something , or we might remember in a particular way something inaccurately. I think it is fair to say that I do not understand quantum entanglement or where to apply it, but if someone out there does understand please explain it to me.

Does it make sense to say: Consciousness or awareness is the response of an agent to the environment (constraint)it is in. In quantum mechanics the response to the constraints are quantified by applying boundary conditions to the wave function. Behavior of the agent in its environment is manifested by the selections of its wave function following the boundary conditions. This starts from most basic agent in nature such as elementary particles. Therefore, consciousness is expected to have a nonzero ground state. More complex systems are expected to have higher levels of the consciousness than the ground states.

Alan Malcheski

7 ай бұрын

Of course it makes sense, you're suggesting that consciousness is a local phenomena, inherent in space and inanimate matter as well as complex biological creatures. It is just not a popular idea. Neither is the idea that space has density and is connected to a system of limitless energy. Do you think DNA all looks so similar only because it is all evolved from one kind to another? That is a popular idea. Not the correct idea, but very popular.

Thanks Locating consciousness beyond science

Gene Whitman

2 жыл бұрын

Sir Roger thinks science will eventually show the way. It will be a new, as yet known science, that is.

Guy Nouri

2 жыл бұрын

That is.. beyond quantum

Consciousness; The amassed perpetual resonance of each unique spark...

Congrats to Penrose!!!!!

Penrose drew the illustrations I assume...quite impressive ...shows vivid imagination

Consciousness is time.

I admire Sir Roger Penrose. Human capacity is immense but it dwindles to almost nothing when we fill our selves with hate and ill will. Our Hinduism & yoga shastras have repeatedly advised us so. But our present many national do not think so.

A question: whether the anesthesia is really turning-off the consciousness, or its just turning-off/dampening the tubules, thereby just restricting the `access' (of the consciousness) to trigger the neurons ? And the so called consciousness is very much intact..

Piggypoo

Жыл бұрын

Like sleep mode on a pc? And dreams are the screen savers 🤣

I wish they assessed the quantum mechanism dysfunction in people who get “locked in” and remain conscious but physically immobile under anesthetics

All consciousness and awareness of living things seems to include having a kind of "will", and, for humans at least, a sensation of its being "my" will and a "free" will. Whether it really is a free will is a separate question. If the Schroedinger probabilties are modified by a distinctive free nonphysical self, then it is a free will. If they are synchronized in a physically observable but Schroedinger-inexplicable way, then they are presumably evidence of a distinctive free nonphysical something that does this, and that feels itself to be a distinctive self Althought the distinctiveness could still be an optical illusion, or rather a sensation illusion; it could just be a local bit of a larger hive self or a universal self.

Consciousness is a reflection of light through oxygen between 2 mirrors, like when a doctor looks for Consciousness in a patient's eyes

Archangel Raphael

11 ай бұрын

so many of ye sheeple have 'consciousness' all figured out ... amazing

14:07 Lol happens to me all the time. That's why I'm glad there's KZread where I can rewind ~30 seconds anytime I need.

Resonance, reflection, relationship, reality. Consciousness is expressed through matter, but is not within matter. It is a resonant phenomenon. Coherent standing waves.

Max Headroom

Жыл бұрын

I enjoy the way you put that. Thank you for being an amazing co-creator and I hope people realize the profound implications of this statement. Especially when its a particle of incoherency only moments before it is observed. Such is Polarity and the collapse of the wave function from superposition is in a polarity of waves or particles. Rather than waves AND particles. A perhaps subtle, but none the less important distinction.

So basically, if understand this correctly, the universe contains quantum entangled consciousness as an underlying property and the tubulin structures allow us to access it and create coherent moments in what we perceive as time. That sounds about right.

Existence University

6 ай бұрын

@feastron Other way round, the tubule form consciousness. The primacy of existence is important.

feastron

2 жыл бұрын

Yes you got everything right but We don't "access" consciousness, consciousness is using micro tubulins to express and experience this world.

Halloween approaches and so we think of various kinds of horror. One of the most horrifying things I can imagine is what might go on in the awakened mind of an average fellow if during the night while he was sleeping a team of doctors surreptitiously severed every neuron that connects his sense organs to his brain. The lecturers gave me the impression that they believe the victim should be perfectly conscious of the world around him regardless of his total lack of sensory input.

REDPUMPERNICKEL

8 ай бұрын

@a random guy on the internet "what is the "magical thinking leap" That sub atomic whatevers have a quantum of consciousness seems to me pretty much equivalent to asserting there exist souls, ghosts, angels, etc.

a random guy on the internet

8 ай бұрын

@REDPUMPERNICKEL and what is the "magical thinking leap"

REDPUMPERNICKEL

8 ай бұрын

@a random guy on the internet Mine is not a computational theory. To put a name to it, perhaps 'Analogical Theory' might fit best. At the heart of Orch OR theory I see a leap that is generally regarded as 'magical thinking' and so I put it on the sidelines. I know it's wrong because I know mine is right and not only right but explainable.

a random guy on the internet

8 ай бұрын

@REDPUMPERNICKEL ok, so you are with a computational theory of the mind and your argument against Orch OR is that it says consciousness works in a diferendt way from your theory ?

Does the expectation, of where in brain cells the quantum states give rise to proto-conscious, have implications for temperature and pressure ranges outside of which life cannot be conscious? Also is there proto-consciousness in plants or amoebae, or do they not have micro-tubules?

Zac Crisp

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps you don't need microtubules you just need something that cause the same interactions to occur, with a. Kind of pathway through reality and an influence over its possibilities. My layman guess