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@JohnLloydScharf

9 күн бұрын

WHY SHOULD ALL REVIEWERS NOT DO THE DROP TEST!!!!!!!! INDIANA STATE POLICE FORENSIC FIREARMS IDENTIFICATION UNIT TEST METHODS - Page 19 6.8.2. As part of this method, an examiner should perform an “Impact” test on the firearm utilizing a primed cartridge case. An “Impact” test should consist of the of the following steps: 6.8.2.1.Ensure that the firearm is unloaded. 6.8.2.2.Load a primed cartridge case into the chamber of the firearm .6.8.2.3.Holding the muzzle away, strike the firearm forcibly with a rubber mallet on the top, bottom, right side, left side, back of the firearm. 6.8.2.4.The examiner should strike these areas a minimum of ten (10) times per side. 6.8.2.5.The examiner should repeat these strikes while the firearm is in various operating stages i.e.; single-action, double action, safety on, safety off, and any other possible combinations as such, www.in.gov/isp/labs/files/Firearms%20and%20Toolmarks%20Test%20Methods%20Version%2018%2003-28-17.pdf

@JohnLloydScharf

9 күн бұрын

www.in.gov/isp/labs/files/Firearms_Test_Methods_10-02-2023.pdf INDIANA STATE POLICE FORENSIC FIREARMS IDENTIFICATION UNIT IMPACT TEST AS OF 10/02/2023 6.8.2. As part of this method, an examiner should perform an “Impact” test on the firearm utilizing a primed cartridge case. An “Impact” test should consist of the of the following steps: 6.8.2.1. Ensure that the firearm is unloaded. 6.8.2.2. Load a primed cartridge case into the chamber of the firearm. 6.8.2.3. Holding the muzzle away, strike the firearm forcibly with a rubber mallet on the top, bottom, right side, left side, back of the firearm. 6.8.2.4. The examiner should strike these areas a minimum of ten (10) times per side. 6.8.2.5. The examiner should repeat these strikes while the firearm is in various operating stages i.e.; single-action, double action, safety on, safety off, and any other possible combinations as such.

@gregorholmes1837

9 күн бұрын

I know a guy who went to SDI. We call him the vice grip gunsmith. Ya he uses vice grips on guns. That’s Sdi screening process. Scam institute

@deminybs

9 күн бұрын

was it a bad batch or something?? I did the drop test multiple times with my old m18 I recently traded in, never had any issue, strange also mine had a trigger safety so not sure if that matters

@Minuteman4Jesus

9 күн бұрын

It can't be 'user error', a lady cop (among others) set her issued P320 down (gently) on a table, and not immediately but a few minutes later the pistol went off on its own. SIG has been dishonest in their representations about the P320, and I think it's a QC issue because as you said, there's a lot of people who had no problems with it. I love the idea of modular pistols with the internals being the serialized firearm, but because of this I'm sticking to Springfield Armory. I'm gonna get their new Echelon which also has the serialized internals in what they call COG (Central Operating Group).

THIS is what a suit concerning guns should be about. NOT what the people do with the gun. ❤️👍🇺🇲

@raymondpearson4268

9 күн бұрын

I can't get behind that well said

@RivenRock300

9 күн бұрын

You must be from Boston , Massachusetts. Only someone from that area would make such a statement.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

@@terridi1880No the issue is indeed from the manufacturer’s end. They discovered the flaw during the MHS trials and then fixed it, but didn’t fix it for the civilian guns until the discharges started.

@Batmann_

9 күн бұрын

@@terridi1880 The only operator error is regarding whomever is operating your KB. If you think an arm should go off whilst NOT depressing the trigger...you probably voted for the current pres and believe all sorts of other things

@justnana2256

9 күн бұрын

@@RivenRock300 Absolutely not. I'm from a free state. Why would you think that me saying a gun suit should be about the safety of the gun and not about what a person does with a gun means I'm from a place like Mass? Those people mostly think having a gun turns you into a bad person who does criminal things and not that a criminal was going to be a criminal with or without a gun.

can we sue hollywood for misrepresenting guns and how they work ?

@Cannamaniac84

9 күн бұрын

And the media.

@ranger178

9 күн бұрын

@@Cannamaniac84 yeah basically anything that comes from the television

@Barskor1

9 күн бұрын

You could just stop watching their crap.

@ranger178

9 күн бұрын

@@Barskor1 i stopped cable don't subscribe to any video services that push this stupid left-wing agenda i just watch old movies and tv when it was good

@notchagrandpa8875

9 күн бұрын

Yes, yes you can

This is going to open a whole new agenda of suing gun manufacturers, which is what they want to begin with.

@SpenstarUndercover

7 күн бұрын

Suing a company for a defective product is nothing new.

@Mr-Bogs

7 күн бұрын

So we should be happy and just accept that the 320 has plenty of documented cases regarding the gun going off without a pull of the trigger?

@Garebare1

7 күн бұрын

Not it isnt…

Well, if the jury found Sig culpable, they should be able to specify what the defect is.

@joshuathomas8529

9 күн бұрын

I would vote to repeal the NFA. I would aloso vote to ban the P320. I have seen videos of these firing when dropped.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

If you are in the firearms community you should know the defect it discharged when dropped from multiple mangled because the trigger is so light and the slide so heavy.

@gabrielf1911

9 күн бұрын

The defect is that they can go off by a firm smack to the back of the slide. Cause? Probably lack of a effective firing pin safety. Considering it can go off without being dropped and only by being hit on the back of the slide with a rubber hammer. You can watch a video that's on KZread of them doing exactly that. Just have to care enough to actually look it up.

@stephenh4129

9 күн бұрын

@@gabrielf1911 Then don't hit it with a rubber hammer

@concord14

9 күн бұрын

@@gabrielf1911 Okay, cool, that should be specified in the court document!

Such BS. Can't define the actual defect, but found guilty because of Blue Haired fee fees.

This news should make Alec Baldwin happy because he'll now say that he was holding a sig 320 when accidental discharge occurred on the rust set.

@dgunearthed7859

9 күн бұрын

Lol sig just started making wheelguns lol

@ogk9com

9 күн бұрын

I think you're terribly wrong on this matter. He would likely say his gun identifies as a Sig320. 😂

@hoghunter6872

9 күн бұрын

lol now that’s funny shit right there

@BassWhoopinFishingTeam

9 күн бұрын

Except he wasnt.

@GD-tn3ez

8 күн бұрын

In a western movie 😂

I've been carrying my p320 for over 2 years and it hasn't shot my wallet yet.

@jacobsteger4662

9 күн бұрын

Your one of those small of the back carry people arnt you?

@geec5636

9 күн бұрын

@@jacobsteger4662 yes

@Wraith_of_Storm

9 күн бұрын

No, but I'm sure it burned a hole in it when you first bought it. 🤣🤣

@testing2741

9 күн бұрын

I don't own a 320 and I never will. But does anyone honestly believe they're magically going off spontaneously with the number of internal safeties that would have fail, simultaneously, for that to happen? ...multiple internal safeties failing at once, really? To me it is clear as day that it's an ND caused by obstructions in the common bucket style retention holsters used by LEAs, and happens due to the lack of a safety dingus. When you buy a duty tool for holstering daily, that doesn't have a safety dingus, you better check every single time that your holster doesn't have something in it... When most LEO go go the range once or twice a year to qualify, they should know better than to buy something without a dingus.

@MrDoverfield

9 күн бұрын

@@testing2741 I agree I’m Glock fan and I’m buying this bs

All of these discharges were because the trigger was touched in some type of way. Too many p320 in circulation with not many of these discharges. Math not mathing. Several videos show the owners touching the trigger and the weapon firing. Female officer with a p320 in her purse with no holster and you wonder why it discharges

@Hanibul_Lecktor

8 күн бұрын

False, drop test shows it can go off. Several videos of police getting in our out of their cruiser, while holstered they went off. You can literally KZread search P320 drop test, willfully ignorant or denial?

@SpenstarUndercover

7 күн бұрын

Look up the video of a p320 going off in a cop's holster when it was hit while he was trying to subdue a suspect. Look up the vids that prove that the p 320 is not drop safe as it fires after being dropped or being hit in the back of the slide. Not all are user error. And the fact that Sig didn't do a mandatory recall of their defective product speaks volumes.

@carter1431

7 күн бұрын

@@SpenstarUndercover dont like sig striker pistols. But the first incident you speak of was determined to have not been seated in the officers holster by video footage. After the trigger was replaced by sig there hadnt been noted drop safe issues.

@SpenstarUndercover

7 күн бұрын

@carter1431 even if it was unseated, it still shouldn't discharge from getting tapped and that still doesn't change the fact that Sig released a defective product. So my point still holds true.

@frankopanklaric

Күн бұрын

"Math not mathing." I fucing hate you redditors with a burning passion.

My Comment is this: The 320 in Question should be Examined by a Professional Gunsmith with No Skin in the game to see if it is Defective

@thomasgiglia6260

9 күн бұрын

The 320 has been examined by many gunsmiths include some KZreadrs. The 320 has a firing pin block that gets actuated by a lifter under the block. The blade gets pushed up when you start pulling the trigger (the Glock is similar, however it is actuated by the blade safety on the trigger). If you or something else (like a bad fitting holster) depresses the trigger enough the firing pin block gets pushed out of the way. Then (like any striker fired gun) the striker can hit the firing pin if enough inertia is applied to get the striker to move forward. There are videos on KZread that illustrate this. In addition the striker on the 320 is pre-charged 80% when you rack the slide (on a STOCK glock its 50%) A solution is M17/M18 that the military uses. It has a external safety. The military has not has any of these problems (with the exception of the problem they found during acceptance testing and Sig fixed).

@Wraith_of_Storm

9 күн бұрын

I concur.

@MinimumSpeedOperator

9 күн бұрын

@@thomasgiglia6260exactly! The jury in this case is actually correct. I couldn’t agree with you more. If you want a 320 get the military models with manual safety. The regular pistol simply has to light a trigger to be safely carried without having a serious potential for AD.

@GrayHatterSociety

6 күн бұрын

​@@thomasgiglia6260I haven't seen this happen in any video without them intentionally breaking or inserting things into the slide that could never get there without doing so.

@GrayHatterSociety

6 күн бұрын

Also Walthers, Caniks, and newer S&W are more cocked than the 320 striker, and no accusations there in recent years. Perhaps the lack of "dingus" is the cause of something impending on the trigger inside the holsters. To me that is the most likely cause. Pretending both internal safeties would be overridden, especially after the drop fix, by nothing happening to the trigger is absurd IMO.

If they can go after guns for unintentional accidents, why can't they go after big pharma for jab harm that they KNEW would happen? No one is asking that question.

@b0lbi

5 күн бұрын

The govt granted them immunity in the emergency order for the vaccine.

@666devilknight

5 күн бұрын

The government gave them protections against law suits. That’s why. It’s corrupt government.

I have 320 with safety. If it goes off with safety on , I will be concerned.

@chaos-jp7nt

2 күн бұрын

Same here

I own several P320's, I have also instructed firearms safety with many students who owned and used the P320 in my classes. I have also competed with and against men and women in USPSA and IDPA who have used the P320 in many different configurations. I have yet to see one unintentionally discharge on its own. I won't say it hasn't happened, but why can it not be replicated?.

New slogan idea: SIG - Never let them get the drop on you.

@rwally192

9 күн бұрын

😂😂 Yes

@colt10mmsecurity68

9 күн бұрын

Sig also needs to avoid advertising a catchy phrase Like: “Sig just DROPPED a new P320 variant…”. It could be taken the wrong way. 😅

@Watchlist_Nominee

9 күн бұрын

LMAO

@2A_Chicano_Califas

9 күн бұрын

Pure GOLD

@Minuteman4Jesus

9 күн бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Flawless! You win the internet!

I carry my M17 in a shoulder holster with 1 in the chamber. I have for years. I have trained with it extensively, and in fact, used it during my qualification test for The People's Republic of Maryland CCW range test. Zero issues.

@volkskrieg8735

9 күн бұрын

have u actually checked to c if it is drop safe or did u trust the word of sig?

@jlotto1814

9 күн бұрын

Why would he drop it? Who drops a weapon?

@volkskrieg8735

9 күн бұрын

@@jlotto1814 I do lol. I drop test any gun I plan on carrying.

@afternoondelight6322

9 күн бұрын

​@@volkskrieg8735 smart

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

​@@volkskrieg8735done that since I started carrying in the 80's.

Is the military having p320s discharges???

I was going to get a p320 and the whole dropsafe issue drove me away, Even though I love the "in hand feel". I ended up getting a g19. When you want to carry everyday, being 100% confident in your tool is top priority. NC here. Thank you Jared, appreciate your service.

@joshuarichard6827

9 күн бұрын

Be confident 100% in NOTHING made by man

@agentjohnson3973

9 күн бұрын

That got fixed years ago though

@robertkeller9828

9 күн бұрын

G19 is a G19..AND most of its clones are too. Trust it/them.

@hatchetjack1031

8 күн бұрын

I've seen G19s drop the magazine on firing! I've seen them nose dive the top round in the mag when jarred. Seen them light hammer strike! Nothing is 100% but if you want to approach 100% ...revolver! Baldwin has no defense!

@garrettlundy3959

8 күн бұрын

SIG has sold a lot of Glocks! 😂

Everyone hates on Glock but dang son, I wouldn’t carry a Sig.

I’m old enough to remember when Glock was accused of “going off on its own” as well. Pepperidge Farm remembers

@chasecarter8848

9 күн бұрын

I'm that old too, but there weren't dozens of videos of glocks fireing themselves in holsters like there are of the SIG. I'd agree the Glock Leg issue was training, but I've seen the SIG do its trick, there is a problem with the gun.

@justevil100

9 күн бұрын

The difference here is those pistols really will go off without pulling the trigger. Yes it requires an impact but, it happens none the less.

@railfanningpoints2.045

9 күн бұрын

​@@chasecarter8848 Got links? Evidence?

@railfanningpoints2.045

9 күн бұрын

It was never a problem with Glocks.

@Slay_No_More

9 күн бұрын

I also remember them being called "glocknades"

I've carried an M17 EVERY SINGLE DAY for 4 years and I have NEVER had an accidental discharge.

@evocati6523

9 күн бұрын

You don't need every gun to ND all the time for a problem to exist, you just got lucky... so far

@MinimumSpeedOperator

9 күн бұрын

You have a manual safety you are good.

@PropsandWings

8 күн бұрын

​@@MinimumSpeedOperator just because you have a manual safety doesn't mean you're in the clear. Yes it's good to have them and I use it on my carry but it may not work 100% all the time. Any safety device can fail.

@GD-tn3ez

8 күн бұрын

Yet 🤞

@MinimumSpeedOperator

8 күн бұрын

@@PropsandWings I’m specifically talking about the common issues had with the 320. The manual safety models are not exhibiting the problem like the LEO non safety models. IE I would only carry one with a safety as far as 320s are concerned

Thank you 🙏🏼 Guns and gadgets!!!! ❤

Guy admitted he pulled the trigger and sued over the trigger being too easy to pull. Definition of a frivolous lawsuit

@ljrlimited9490

6 күн бұрын

wrong, he said his finger was not on the trigger

@cagneybillingsley2165

3 күн бұрын

he said his finger was NOT on the trigger. you and the 14 guys who upvoted you are why participation on social media is in dire need of an iq requirement

I bought a P320, a law enforcement trade-in but in excellent condition. It had been through the voluntary upgrade before I bought it. I've never had any issue with it, but I recently sent it to Sig to add manual safety at a lower cost than purchasing the conversion kit. I chose to do this just in case there is something to the claim of the P320 discharging on its own. I have grown up with manual safety, and all my other Sigs have manual safety. So, adding it to my P320 just made sense to me, and I can use the muscle memory that I built up after a lifetime of using manual safety.

@volkskrieg8735

9 күн бұрын

the manual safeties get a lot of shit but i also train with a manual safety. it just opens up a lot more carry options like pocked carry. My shield has a great safety that is not easily flipped off unless u intend to hit it.

@hk_4014

9 күн бұрын

I was just at sig and I asked them about putting a manual safety on a 320 for my wife and they said it wasn't a thing they did. Do u have a link or something of where u sent it off to to do that?

@scottmiller4516

9 күн бұрын

@@hk_4014 The Komifornia models come that way so, yes it is possible

@thomasgiglia6260

9 күн бұрын

@@hk_4014 AB Prototype does it.

@brucecole4907

9 күн бұрын

​​@@hk_4014I started with customer support (CS) on their webpage. I ended up calling Sig's CS phone number and talking with Tim O. and he walked me through the change details and set up everything for me to ship to them for the work to be done and then ship it back to me.

What do military say . Aren't they the ones who use them the most

I carry a 320 daily and have for years. Hollows over nuts everyday. I'm very active, ie hiking, mountain biking, playing with my 3 kids, playing basketball in the driveway, and more, I've never had an issue. I've even dropped one once and luckily the only thing that happened was i got a ding in the slide. Personally i believe that these accidental discharges are being caused by the pistols being loose in their holsters and serpa holsters not fitting properly. It seems 75% of them are serpa holsters of which they could be having fitment issues and the locking mechanism is possibly bumping the trigger. Several of the videos I've seen the person is actively drawing the pistol and they could possibly be bumping the trigger on some portion of the interior of the holster on the draw. Just my 2¢

@fiveowaf454

7 күн бұрын

I'd still be nervous to carry any firearm that has such a small margin for error. I was looking at the Sig 320, but decided against it, even more so because I planned to use my 10mm in the back country where there are more opportunities for debris and twigs/sticks to get in and around the trigger. I have other Sigs but rightly, or wrongly, couldn't see what advantage the P320 had over other similar pistols from other brands, that aren't having the problems that keep getting reported.

My p320 has zero rounds. The most reliable firearm ever. Never had a hiccup. But just a sample size of one. Sig for the win!

@superrad1659

9 күн бұрын

Ah yes, going with the whole "you win 100% of the fights you're never in" philosophy lol

I've always had reservations about such a relatively light trigger pull without a trigger dingus. Those trigger safeties prevents inertia, but also unintentional pull trough of the trigger if an obstruction is present.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

Yep there is a reason Glocks have those. Namely one of the trial requirements was to make it drop safe.

@fiveowaf454

7 күн бұрын

While the trigger safeties obviously add a degree of safety, something getting in the trigger guard can still defeat it. Glock has had no shortage of negligent discharges despite the feature. I think the rush there has been towards lighter, shorter trigger pulls, combined with the striker action has just made it so much easier for mistakes to happen, compared to the days when double action handguns ruled.

My browning high power has two safety's on it. Thumb safety and a rear spur , no way have I ever come close to an accidental discharge.

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

Browning P-35 "High-Power" has a thumb safety, and a magazine safety. It also has a half cock notch on the hammer/sear. Not really a safety.

I think the real problem with the 320's is that the sear holds the striker back at full cock. This allows a very light trigger pull but because the sear is in the grip frame....ANY play in the slide to frame rails means the sear surfaces are moving relative to one another. They have very little purchase so just a small movement can let the striker slip off the sear. There is a striker safety in the slide meant to catch it should it accidentally be released, but this is tiny with a very weak spring and can easily be defeated with a little dirt or lint. I won't carry a striker gun that holds it fully cocked. Glock and most others only partially cock the striker and rely on the long trigger press to pull it back to full cock before release. This is MUCH safer design IMHO.

@superrad1659

9 күн бұрын

You sound like you might be able to answer a question or 2 for me,...Do the internals of the 365 models function identically to the 320? And if equipped w/a manual safety, would this still be of concern?

@chriscarnes87

9 күн бұрын

Exactly.

@shazmodeus2795

9 күн бұрын

@@superrad1659 the 365 and 320 are similar but not identical, think of the 320 as version 1 and the 365 as version 2. The manual safety puts a physical block in the mechanism that prevents the trigger and striker from moving.

@melissasmess2773

9 күн бұрын

@@superrad1659they are different fire control units, check pictures on their website. 365 has no known issues with safety.

@recoilrob324

9 күн бұрын

@@superrad1659 This video shows the safety install and function very nicely: kzread.info/dash/bejne/f3uawZhtmazUnLg.html This will make the gun much safer to carry...but it's still relying on the sear holding the striker and as mentioned earlier...any play in the slide to frame rails will be moving the sear surfaces relative to one another. Many of the AD's had guns in holsters that firmly held the slide...then they fired when the grip was struck or pushed sideways. This prying action will move the sear away from the striker even if the trigger sear doesn't move because it's locked by the manual safety. To carry either 320 or 365 safely I'd make sure there was VERY little play in the slide to frame rails and if you are in a dept. with an armorer...make him/her keep them tight.

So Sig leg is a thing now too? 😂

I wouldn't buy a Sig. Aside from their problems with the 320, their customer service is the worst in the insustry. I wouldn't want the headache, or the torn muscle tissue.

For years I have EDC my 320s in different calibers. I sent one back for the trigger upgrade. We do "spirited driving" in the Blue Ridge mountains, with it on my hip, so it's getting jostled. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.

Thank You Jared 👍😎👍

I remember when you initially covered the P320 issue. You have always been fair in your coverage of these pistols.

Funny how the military is not reporting all the issues. Tons of issues.

@phildore46

8 күн бұрын

The pistols issued to the military have a manual safety.

@user-du8tg4wh3k

8 күн бұрын

Yes I know, I said issues not discharges even though NDs are common , but that would go for any platforms issued to military.

Thanks for the update.

I love mine. Not one single time has it gone off by itself. I guilt mine through buying all the parts because the completed model wasn't available at the time. I made sure that I bought the redesigned FCU. I say again, it has never gone off without my pulling of the trigger.

Such a mystery. I tend to think it is user error. But I'm also afraid to risk carrying it appendix.

My "duty" sidearm is a SIG P320 VTAC R2, i have had zero issues, but like said, it is something that I keep in mind. Personally I would like to see SIG do a trigger shoe safety, or for my personal liking a grip safety, like the SA XDMs had.

I just mailed my P320 xTen back to Sig with four mags due to an issue with malfunctions with the mags feeding. They have been very forthcoming in helping solve this issue but it's frustrating being without my regular duty handgun. I have multiple Sig products as well and have been very happy with them. I do train with them hard and the issues I have had are using Speer Gold Dot JHP ammo only. I will keep watching to see where this all goes. Thanks Jared

I carry a P320 on duty, and have carried it for several years. NO issues with mine AT ALL.... but then again I make sure that there is nothing in my trigger guard when I holster it or draw it. Proficiency is a thing.

I've ran my 320 xcarry legion for multiple classes and know the sig sauer academy instructors use the 320 and have never had or seen issues. I've taken the factory armorer course for the 320 and they discuss this in the course. There's 3 internal safeties that work in unison to ensure the pistol only goes off when the trigger is pulled.

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

Yet they just lost a lawsuit.....

@immikeurnot

9 күн бұрын

@@charlessalmond7076 Juries are full of dumb people.

@RikkiTikkiTavi290

8 күн бұрын

You're saying Sig instructors use the 320 and never report issues? 😂 3 internal safeties and yet all these problems.

Did they ever think it might be only certain serial numbers or manufacture dates with the defect is why some are not having a problem.

I’ve trained with my 320’s I’ve competed with them, and one has a lighter than factory trigger. The only time they have gone off was when I intended to fire a shot. No one can produce evidence that the people who allegedly had one go off were using proper equipment. The lady who had one go off in her purse wasn’t even using a holster. Carry what you want. I’ll keep mine in rotation.

I have 2 P320's. The first had a problem, but not as described. First time I used (bought used) it didn't pull the round out after firing. Had to pull out and saw it was not fully in chamber. Called them and they said try different ammo. I did, and after 3 rounds the gun had loud malfunction and extractor and ejector flew out. I found them and called Sig. I will say the rep that answered was more worried than first and asked "are you OK, do I need to get help there". first. They did a warranty fix, and I have not had an issue with it in years.

It happened to ruger and they still fix the blackhawk. For free

In the past 5 years, I have yet for my Sig P-320 pop off a round on its own 😂😂😂

I have a 320 and have experienced no problems related to pulling the weapon from its holster. The one concession I follow is not chambering a round while carrying my 320, and train with it to compensate for my choice. You cannot be lazy with handling any weapon, especially one without a thumb lock. Training with this weapon is an absolute essential.

I have carried two X series on-duty for 5+ years now. I have dropped them, been in ground restrains with them and have never had one discharge on it's own.

@fuckjoebiden1435

9 күн бұрын

lucky you. i saw the police in car camera video of the 320 discharging while holstered while the officer is casually driving down the street

I have 11 different versions of the 320 I have carried them. Never had any of MINE go off by themselves. A few stay loaded in the safe, too.

@matthewconnor5483

9 күн бұрын

The issue that comes up several times is when they are dropped and the drop safety not being so drop safe.

@squidly2112

9 күн бұрын

@@matthewconnor5483 - This issue that Jared is discussing has nothing to do with the "drop safety" issue.

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

A gambling man, I like it.

@matthewconnor5483

9 күн бұрын

@@squidly2112 but the law suit the Huston PD filed against Sig was about the drop safety.

@SAR0311

7 күн бұрын

What do you do for a living?

I have an unmodified early 45acp 320 that has NEVER gone off without my express intent and it has been carried regularly. These clowns that claim the 320 goes off by itself are just too vain to admit they screwed up.

The p320 had a drop issue not a fire in the holster issue. Sig and a 3rd party investigation team said holster discharges are from the holster not the firearm.

So did the P-320 used in the lawsuit have the old trigger or the new currently produced trigger??

Younger models of both men and guns are known for "unintentional discharges". Common, being born in 2014, the P320 isn't even yet a teenager :)

I had one of the first releases of the 320 with the metal trigger. Took a trainning class with it. Dropped it, knocked it into shit, it got banged up and full of debris throughout the class. I also shot about 900 + rounds through it that day and through all that, it had 0 malfunctions, and never discharged unless I pulled the trigger. The 320, even in its original versions is a good pistol. This is all user negligence of basic gun safety rules.

You cant convince me to carry ANYTHING appendix. NEVER point your weapon at anything you don't want destroyed...even in the holster.

@Skinman366

8 күн бұрын

When you hit 50 it don’t work anymore

@corran100

8 күн бұрын

@@Skinman366 I beg to differ. It works, just not like it used to. Still don't wanna blow it off, accidentally or otherwise.

@GrayHatterSociety

6 күн бұрын

Appendix without a dingus or manual safety is not smart. But with one or both its perfectly fine, and proven as safe at this point.

@corran100

6 күн бұрын

@@GrayHatterSociety carry how you want, but the groin is not the only thing that is flagged with appendix carry. Two major arteries run down the inside of your leg. Either one can be deadly if hit.

I find it hard to believe that just taking it out of a holster would cause it to fire, unless there was something in the holster that triggered it.

Asking for everyone in California has there ever been a discharge with a p320 that has a thumb safety?

p320 is a redesigned p250 (which was hammer fired). p320 was never truly designed from the ground up

@gabrielf1911

9 күн бұрын

Exactly, same reason alot of glocks in 40sw explode after reaching a high round count. That size glock wasn't designed for 40sw, it was designed for 9mm. The gen 5 glock 23 is designed for 40sw and thus it's wider than the traditional 9mm frame. Now sig is just having potentially deadly failures because of their design negligence.

@yourface3154

9 күн бұрын

Nope, it's designed from the hip to the ground. Hehe.

@Pb_Slinger

9 күн бұрын

The FCU’s are completely different though. There are some cross compatible magazines and maybe grip mods but that’s it.

@PaulAmerican

9 күн бұрын

But it was a "redesigned" for the military with a thumb safety. The thumb safety stops the trigger from moving. Sig removing the thumb safety for the civilian marker made the firearm have a drop issue but not a fire in the holster issue.

SIG, FINGER OFF TRIGGER.

@oldgysgt

9 күн бұрын

If the cop was really shot by his holstered P320 while exiting his vehical, how could this be a "finger on the trigger" issue?

@Slay_No_More

9 күн бұрын

@@terridi1880 lol

@colt10mmsecurity68

9 күн бұрын

…AND IT STILL GOES (((BANG!))) (Completed your sentence for ya).

@Hudson_Hawk2024

9 күн бұрын

@@oldgysgt foreign material in his holster, or his holster itself(if leather) found its way into the trigger guard and had enough force to depress the trigger.

@oldgysgt

6 күн бұрын

@@terridi1880; OK, "I stepped out of my patrol car, and my holstered Sig discharged, striking me in the leg". That is what one cop claimed, and if he's telling the truth, what "operator error" did he commit?

I have a P320 and even sent it back on the voluntary trigger fix. I have carried it IWB, but mostly, it serves as my bedside gun. I have no problems with it, but when these cases come up, it makes you think about the potential of a problem just might exist.

I own a P320, but if I'm wanting to carry it I choose my DAO Sig P250 instead because it's a safer design. For anyone who doesn't know, the Sig P250 is basically the same as the Sig P320. They both use the same magazines, grip modules and a few other parts. The only difference is the Sig P250 is a hammer fired DAO pistol.

@kevinallies1014

9 күн бұрын

Let me get this straight, in your mind a hammer fired DAO gun is “basically the same” as a fully cocked striker fired gun? I am definitely not taking any recommendations for anything from you.

@slopsec2358

9 күн бұрын

Basically the same, except they aren't.

@Prepare2Survive

9 күн бұрын

@@kevinallies1014 The platform that the P320 uses comes directly from the older P250. They are essentially the same in that regard. I wasn't talking about the firing mechanism where one relies on a spring powered hammer to strike the firing pin and one relies on a spring powered striker. I'm talking about the platform itself. That's why the magazines, grip modules and some internal parts like the trigger return spring are the same. You can essentially take apart the fire control unit of the P250 and turn it into the fire control unit of the P320 because at it's core they are basically the same.

@davem4193

9 күн бұрын

​@Prepare2Survive I wish Sig had kept making the P250. They have the nicest DAO trigger I've ever fired. Very accurate too and they only fire when you want them to.

@lenholt7419

9 күн бұрын

Thinking about picking up a 250. I can't bring myself to own anything with SIG on it though. The P250 was is s good design.

I don't know it seems like too much of a coincidence that there's no issue.....

@volkskrieg8735

9 күн бұрын

there absolutley is an issue. I have personaly drop tested both a p320 and an m17 and both wernt drop safe. both got sent back to sig and came back drop safe. They know what the issue is but wont admit there is an issue.

@Slay_No_More

9 күн бұрын

It's not a coincidence, it's a well known thing.

@Yourmommyisbusy

9 күн бұрын

Maybe its your blind bias is showing???? Soliders, police, and even private citizens all had issues with the p320 and some have been fatal.

@calholli

9 күн бұрын

Everyone knows the issue. lol.. It doesn't have a safety.. and neither does the p365. Every other striker fired pistol on the market has some sort of safety built in. Such as the tab trigger like glock.. or the pivot trigger like the M&P.. or at least a grip safety, like an XD.. (or a manual safety). Sig has no trigger safety whatsoever.. Which they didn't' need to for the military pistols, (m17 and M18)/ because those have manual safety's.. This is been a known issue from the start.. So much that they already had a recall on it to lighten the trigger to try to keep it from failing a drop test. It was never really an adequate fix

@SNBI2A

8 күн бұрын

Sarcasm people, sarcasm.

The Sig 320, as issued to the US military (m-17 and m-18) are both equipped with a manual safety.

There is a good video of a Sig P320 that went off in the holster during a competition by youtuber Gunghis, with multiple witnesses. The title of the video is "My Sig P320 fired on its own in the holster and tried to shoot me!". (P320 X-Five)

So it's just the 320 owners that keep shooting self. The 365 owners are NOT as stupid

@rudrashakti108

9 күн бұрын

police officers use the bigger gun, not the tiny one. It's mainly police that seems to have the issue.

@battalion151R

8 күн бұрын

45 IQ points.

I appendix carry a P320 daily. I sure hope this isn’t true. Please keep us informed!!!

With following the 4 rules, many that own the 320, will likely never have a discharge. For those that carry it as their job, the question still remains.

My p320 spectre carry is a beast no accidental discharge in all my training from running up mountain side to sliding in the desert sand!! No issues to report, but I keep my baby clean from all dirt or build up after all training I do, and still carry appendix with it chambered. Going on 2 yrs with same pistol. Sig rocks!!

@gabrielf1911

9 күн бұрын

Ever firmly tapped the back of the slide with a firm rubber hammer? That's the real test lol

Could they get that same pistol to misfire?

@jamesdavison7171

9 күн бұрын

Great question

@TisiphonesShadow

8 күн бұрын

IIRC, the Defense (SIG) never got to examine the pistol in question.

Thanks!

@GunsGadgets

9 күн бұрын

THANK YOU

Thanks Jared

I’ve owned a couple of 320’s and still own a 226… I have video forage of my discharge when trying to holster my 320 with my finger straight and off the trigger. When I sent it in to Sig they insisted that there was something in the holster, or that the holster was not specifically designed for the 320. It was a custom Kydex holster.

@azcompetitiveshooter

9 күн бұрын

do you have a link to the video?

@SAR0311

7 күн бұрын

What brand holster was it?

@user-di2kq9jh7t

14 сағат бұрын

Can you post a link to the vid?

M18 with a safety is my version.

I've been daily carrying a P320 Nitron Carry for 6 years. It's been to the range, concealed carried in about 3 or 4 different holsters, (sometimes) open carried, stuffed under the front seat, etc. etc. ... always in a proper holster that was made for the model I have. It has *never* fired without me wanting it to fire. Not saying it's not possible due to all the stories I've heard about, that's just not my story.

It’s a good thing they won those military contracts.

There was an issue years ago where they were not drop safe, but that has all been fixed with a recall and with all future manufactured Sig P320’s. As far as the law enforcement discharges while in the holster, that was ruled that they were using holsters not designed for the P320.

@chriscarnes87

9 күн бұрын

It’s happened to people with newer versions in kydex holsters.

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

There was a video of one of those Factory Fixed 320s going off when dropped from like three and a half feet.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

It wasn’t a recall they made it voluntary to turn in the guns so models with the original issue are still in the wild.

@gabrielf1911

9 күн бұрын

Everyone keeps mentioning the keys or unfitted holster by a leo. The original version of that video would agree with your view but the updated video by the same creator does not and he corrects alot of mistakes he made in thinking keys were stuck in the holster. In fact there were no keys in the holster and the suspected obstruction in the video was just a hood built in the holster to cover optics. New conclusion from that particular video is that the sig pistol failed to restrain the firing pin and went off when the officer hit the slide with his elbow

👉 this is my safety. People who don't know how to handle/use firearms should get training 1st. Cops included. Worked at a gun store for years and had several cops come in looking for a pistol and it was like talking to a 10yr old.

If this is a design problem Sig should fix it! I carried a 226 on duty for 25 years with no issues. Off duty I’ve carried the 1911 platform, cocked & locked for over 50 years w/o an incident.

I've been carrying a p320 for almost 3 years and I've never had any discharges and the one time I was riding a dirt bike and wrecked with it on me and it didn't go off.

weird its always cops

@yeredfarias7662

9 күн бұрын

Also heard of a competition shooter that went off in a holster.

@corycarlson8712

9 күн бұрын

Definitely not just cops. Military has had a bunch of problems. I posted just a few of the videos I remember that I've seen recently. The big guntubers are just terrified to talk about it.

@Redslayer86

9 күн бұрын

More likely to own them in mass, so more likely to have a issue

@MrDoverfield

9 күн бұрын

Strange how most of those people were lying to cover there own negligence

@KennyRodgers930

9 күн бұрын

@@MrDoverfield Have you not seen the multiple videos of it happening exactly as described?

Own 2 P320's and have dropped them with no issues

@DISOPtv

9 күн бұрын

Maybe stop dropping your guns

@HozelRocket

9 күн бұрын

@@DISOPtv : Roger that !

@Dave-xd8lc

9 күн бұрын

I've dropped both of mine, no issue. 1st was a 2017, it fell out of cheap holster (thats entirely on me😮) it landed on concrete and impacted right rear side beaver tail. Left a nasty mark on the beaver tail. NO DISCHARGE.

@tim4883

9 күн бұрын

How long have you had them? It was a few years ago atleast when this started happening. My buddie had one and it did fire when dropped. He sent it in and I belive they sent a new one. I wish ruger would fix the max 9 . It does soft primer hits with no discharge. Scary lol

@melissasmess2773

9 күн бұрын

And how did that make your guns feel? 🧐

TY G&G

In the 80’s-90’s, my Kawasaki shop maintained the KZ-1000’s for 27 local PD’s in So-Cal. The cops would often have us install thicker foam handgrips because the stock ones were hard rubber. One motor-cop called back to say his left grip was getting loose a few weeks after it was installed. We told mim to come right in and we’d install a new pair. He never brought it back in. A few months later he said it slipped off and caused him to crash on a rainy day. He and the City were threatening to sue my dealership. I met with the Chief and the City Manager and the cop. I said, “If your Glock’s trigger wore out and your armorer told you to bring it in for repair 2 months ago, who’s fault would it be when your toe got shot off? The 3 men looked at each-other and apologized. They dropped the case and remained customers.

I have to agree we’re there’s smoke there often fire. To many people having this issue for it to all be user error.

@kevinallies1014

9 күн бұрын

Guns are inherently dangerous for stupid people.

I had no issues with my M18 p320. Been very ruff with it sticking it in the mud,sand,water what ever and still is no issues. I am good here.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

The M18 had the fix applied after the problem was discovered during trials.

I had my p320 for 6 years no safety and it dropped from 6ft ledge no problems! And no discharge

Great video and very informative.

I know someone involved in these cases and there are more settlements and NDAs not known about. He advised me to never use a 320 and has proven why they go off and how. But they must be holstered for this to occur. I would not buy one at all, at least not for carry without a thumb trigger.

@charlessalmond7076

9 күн бұрын

Thumb safety?

If there's video footage proving the plaintiff is either lying about pulling the trigger or is CLEARLY mishandling the gun in a way that could set it off, the court needs that footage YESTERDAY.

@brownro214

9 күн бұрын

That’s not the way it works. The plaintiff has to prove by the preponderance of the evidence that the gun fired on its own. The only evidence is the plaintiff’s statement so very hard to meet the burden of proof.

@ColtonRMagby

9 күн бұрын

@@brownro214 Which is where the video evidence comes in. Then again, an independent firearms expert could give their verdict after examining the gun.

@4schitzangiggles

9 күн бұрын

There's a video of a sig 320 going off in the sallyport when the officer had both hands on a suspect. So how did he fire it? He didn't, the gun is so good it fires itself

@ColtonRMagby

9 күн бұрын

@@4schitzangiggles Trigger must've got caught on something. I don't know what, but it's the only explanation I can think of.

It’s crazy that when there was an actual, provable flaw in the Cross, Sig recalled them immediately. It’s also crazy that as per Sig, Lang basically admitted in his original statement that he pulled the trigger and then back tracked. Hopefully Sig wins this appeal no matter what you think of the company because it’s a disastrous precedent for firearms manufacturers if a court can deem a company is liable with zero evidence because they don’t like the design.

The lack of a trigger safety is why I don't carry a sig. Maybe I don't know much but I don't see how it's drop safe.

Reminds me of Remington shotgun safety issue

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

No Remington never had to payout and didn’t change the military models.

@mathewlmathison2712

9 күн бұрын

I know that it involved safety on the shotgun, had problems with design ​@emberfist8347

@mathewlmathison2712

9 күн бұрын

They were sued and I know they didn't have any military models, but it goes back to the trigger mechanism

@mathewlmathison2712

9 күн бұрын

@@emberfist8347 it was on the Remington 700 rifle, trigger issue not shotgun

@immikeurnot

9 күн бұрын

@@mathewlmathison2712 And the part nobody got to hear was all the 700 rifles with the problem had modified triggers.

I got lung cancer from a Sig. No, seriously, a Sig bit my sister. Then I got skin cancer, brain cancer, and self-inflicted wounds (with extra cancer). Then I got diabeetus. True story.

@user-ru6mf6wc2c

8 күн бұрын

Lmfao! Your comment is Gold, I love it! 😂

@Rdctd6969

8 күн бұрын

Cringe boomer is cringe.

Right,never had a problem with mine

Thanks, I own a P320C and purchased it because of its history. Looked dangerous and it is, safety first with firearms at all times. It was my choice to have it and know the dangerous involved, maybe a new era for weapons and safety. It happened to cars after the seat belt.

This should be the only example of a good reason for a manufacturer to be sued. If any product on the market has repeatedly malfunctioned, that manufacturer has a responsible to address the issue! If it cost them thousands of dollars to do so, oh well, they should have put in more product testing before releasing that product.

@emberfist8347

9 күн бұрын

They did. The fix they issued (voluntarily it wasn’t a recall like most manufacturers do) was out so quickly because it was found during the Modular Handgun System trails for the military. They didn’t bother putting in the civilian models for some reason prior to the lawsuits and exposure of the flaw. I expect there is going to be a Pinto Memo moment where it is revealed a SIG bean counter figured it would be cheaper to settle these lawsuits than fix the issue.

@freeatleast

8 күн бұрын

@@emberfist8347 unfortunately you’re probably right, and perfect analogy with the pinto.

Anybody else remember the safety and trigger issue with the Remington 700 that they said wasn't an issue for how many years

First of all, I never leave mine in Condition 1 unless I am in a high threat environment. It is not much of an extra action to feed the thing into your support hand and rack the slide in the same motion you draw with. The speed difference is only a fraction of a second but if you are one of these people who just has to have that extra .5 of a second or have a good reason not to want to telegraph to people your weapon is now charged, then fine, carry with one in the pipe. I got two M18s and one M17 only because the local shop ran out of the M18s. When I did so, I took each of them one by one and put a dummy round in them, racked them and placed them inside of a strong box alone for a week, came back and checked the state: pressed the trigger and the firing pin dropped. It wouldn't have done that if it had already done so. I did the same test with the safety on, again after one week the pin still dropped. Next I did this by placing the dummy round in the chamber with slide racked, locked the strong box and just knocked the hell out of the box while the gun bounced around inside like a tennis ball. The strong box is high density plastic so there were no scratches and such but I wouldn't care about scratches if the thing isn't safe to carry. for Gods sake we have to stop worshipping these things as much as we like them. Bang them up, beat the shit out of them. What, are we going to go to work with one and stop suddenly before taking cover and say "I don't want to scratch the finish..." really? Beat the hell out of the thing so you know it will serve you when it counts. Nope. No discharge after knocking them both around pretty violently inside a strong box. Did the same thing and this time tossed it on the bed at different angles and made sure it landed on corners and different locations. Nothing Dropped them both from different heights on a firm but carpeted floor. Nothing. Waist height, shoulder height, nothing. Feed lips not bent, pin still under tension and press the trigger *click* I did stuff like this for a couple of weeks after we bought ours for both the M18s and then the M17. Nothing. This guy, or his Attorney is of the shit-sucking gold Digger variety clearly looking for his Cash Cow to profit from and he's probably a Gun control fanatic as well. Add to that I bet he's one of those guys who go in front of cameras whining about the Military Industrial complex and how it is mandatory that we defund our Armed Forces...while half the world wants a piece of us. My bet is that this is totally fake horse shit used as publicity stunts to cause reasonable doubt and get people not to trust their equipment. I'm not and never was a Soldier but something needs to be pointed out: It is a frequent propaganda tactic to attempt to get people to question and not trust their equipment to undermine Morale, cause hesitation and create problems for decision makers. When the Beretta M9 was issued in the 80s I heard all kinds of crap: the slides were flying off and killing Soldiers by hitting them between the eyes, the guns were exploding, etc. Reminds me of the stuff people said about the M16 in Vietnam. I encourage everyone reading this to ignore the horse shit and if it really bothers you, design a test and find out yourself. Recordd it on video and if something fails take it up with the company and get a refund or replacement. We as Consumers have this idiotic entitled attitude that we have to be served and everything has to be just perfect on delivery...which means we are trusting our lives to the decisions and mistakes of total strangers we've never met. Nonsense. test it yourself and then adapt your methods so you can't fail if the technology does. We are hearing more about this because Sig won the contract and its good old fashioned Industrial Espionage. For the record I"m an M&P fanboy and the only thing I really don't like about Sig is that they are more expensive than necessary and the magazines rattle more than my M&Ps when fully seated. I don't like how the left side of the thumb safety has wiggle room and I just roll my eyes when people say that Sig is far superior to M&P because all of mine fit like precision engineered machines but the Sig is a fine pistol. I'm not sorry I got these for my family and I will be the one in charge of Q&A around here so I'm not worried about this. Who knows? Maybe if you leave it loaded and under tension all the time and never handle it to unload and check it or clean it or whatever, then no shit Brainiac all mechanical devices will eventually fail under stress. I don't trust these reports at all.

@immikeurnot

9 күн бұрын

Carrying with an empty chamber is dumb. You might as well not even carry. But you do you, I guess.

One of my law enforcement friends was shot in the leg and foot when his sig p320 discharged when he put it in the duty holster. I was there when it happened. Bad situation.

@mauricemaurice123

9 күн бұрын

Send pics

@immikeurnot

9 күн бұрын

Discharge while going into a holster is pretty much always something snagging the trigger, and isn't something that can only happen to P320s or striker fired pistols.