Really nice summary guys. I agree that “a well rounded grappler should be able to do both”.

EVERYONE should learn falling in the proper way! It can save your bones and joints (maybe even your life) in almost all other sports or when you have an accident (e.g. slipping on ice, falling down the stairs). So just training for stupid IBJJF rules isn´t a good excuse for not training breakfalls. There are some grappling rulesets whre the guard pulling person gets minus points or the other one gets the takedown score. Being able to decide where the fight takes place is never a disadvantage and takedown training is physical very demanding, so you get more stamina and more strength due to it.

@marcelozerbini5411

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed! I'm pro takedown training as well, and I commented on this video thinking about fights, but your first statement dominates this whole argument. EVERYONE should know how to fall, and when I trained Judo as a kid the teacher would say the very first lesson is to know how to fall and pick yourself up. Even, or i might say, SPECIALLY a hobbiest that only trains once or twice a week

Without takedowns bjj turns from one of the most effective martial arts into one of the least effective ones.

@jimmyalderson1639

6 жыл бұрын

peter pan it'sashame, ylu see Rickson do seminars and he shows very insightful nagewaza, but nobody ever learns them or if they do they don't practice them at all

My school and I are completely against pulling guard, to an extent that we are discussing changing the competition rules to avoid it. The only reason why one should pull guard is if one's facing an accomplished judoka or an adversary who is much better at takedowns, in that case pulling the guard will KINDA deny their advantage. Other than that, a takedown is the first act of the fight and it sets the stage for the ground fight. *Any* takedown will surprise your opponent and put you in an advantageous position is the ground fight. A well applied take down will disorient the bloke AND you will end up at least in side mount, maybe even on his back. On the "bad judo" argument, there are two ways of addressing bad judo: either avoid it all together by pulling the guard OR LEARN GOOD JUDO Summing up, to each its own and i do get the pulling guard advocates, but me and my BJJ scholl, we invest a lot in takedowns.

Thank you for this video- Been working a guard pull into a sweep for my first comp! This video definitely is helping this white belt feel good about my guard pull to my SLX sweep-

Little bit harsh of people with time constraints, work is a thing. Everyone should be respected regardless of how often they train..... "sorry you can't learn takedowns because your not committed enough" gash.

Great discourse, loved the ideas being thrown about

@guitarfan84

6 жыл бұрын

Please do a further tutorial series!

Break falls (front, back, side) are part of a daily warm up routine for everyone at our dojo. Also, usually proper throws don't result in too much injury (In a respectful gym). You have clearance and time to breakfall. A lot of injuries happen close to the ground, with hips on knees or reaps. Judo reaps/hooks are a lot scarier than sweeps or hip throws imho.

I like using a body lock and tani otoshi as a simple but effective takedown. But I think of training judo as a more self defense oriented motif for me even though it will come in handy during a bjj competition.

Nice video.keep going on guys

In a real fight, the person getting the worst of it will clinch and try to rabbit punch or eye gouge. This is the perfect time for a suplex or one leg.

Trying to break each other’s joints and choke one another is as dangerous if not more dangerous than training throws and takedowns.

I think it is a bit funny to be at a high level of BJJ and to have this super cautious attitude on takedowns. Take ONE judo class and the first thing you learn is to breakfall, by 2nd or 3rd class you will be thrown and throw someone else. If you can achieve even blue belt in BJJ, you should be able to work standing game, even if you are a 'hobbyist'

i mean.. you should learn first how to fall: otherwise bjj cant claim to be for selfdefence at all (or be the best like a lot of people say) after this, basic takedowns shouldent be a problem. if you cant train them easy i would never let you do a armbar on me, because the risk to damage my arm for ever is highter, then is you do a basic takedown. (not to mention even worse submissions, putting force on my spine/neck, knee, ..) for competition: use what you get, play your game, diffrent story

You just convinced me to stop my kid BJJ training and start judo classes instead

Thanks for explaining this. I was watching a video of a JuJitsu tourney. The man ( a white belt) narrating his fight pulled guard very early in the fight. He spent most of the time on the bottom and was surprised to lose. As more of an mma style fighter, I couldn't understand how he could have expected to win from only guard with no successful submission.

The whole argument about takedowns being dangerous is invalid, I have seen many Judo practitioners still being alive and healthy despite a long carreer in Judo tournaments. The problems are the BJJ rules, takedowns should give an enormous point advantage and learning how to break a fall and how to successfully defend against takedowns is essential if your BJJ game should have any self defense value. I have seen way too many YT videos of BJJ tournament matches where senseless a..holes basically jump into guard, hanging in the air having their legs and arms pretzeled around their opponents body, when the opponent goes to the ground slightly faster than in slowmotion, all the YT idiot shitposters go:" that was a slam!!!" I would change the rules that slamming occures only after actively lifting an opponent up! Whenever an opponent is so dumb as to climb onto you, you should slam him/her for stupidity! I really find it boring and idiotic (the ruleset) that fighters can start on their ass. Both should be standing at the beginning. But that is, was and remains a problem of the ruleset... Which is why I despise "tournament only " BJJ practitioners...

Learn take downs or judo!

@StephanKesting

6 жыл бұрын

While I agree with you in general (especially when it comes to self defense or becoming well rounded in the art) I think that if your focus is BJJ competition the answer isn't quite so simple. Can you please give the video a watch and let me know if the perspectives in it seem to make sense?

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

6 жыл бұрын

Every white belt should know at least 2 takedowns

@oreocarlton3343

6 жыл бұрын

your perspective makes a lot of sense Stephan. If you are competing and dragging ass on the matt you should only hate the game, not the player. BJJ is suffering from extreme sportification. I cant say is it a bad thing, since all sports in the end get sportified, but in the end I dont like it - you should know basic judo and wrestling takedowns.

@AsadAli-zn8sd

6 жыл бұрын

Stephan Kesting when he mentioned that most takedown result in you ending up in the opponents guard, I really don't think that's true. A smooth ankle pick, head and arm throw, or fire man carry can put you in a very advantageous position.

@graciederangementsyndrome3669

6 жыл бұрын

Judo doesn't do takedowns, only throws.

If you don't like pulling guard, then why participate on an ibjj tournament? there are many other rule sets that you should go for instead, some people just like the sport and aren't into the real fight thing of bjj, so they take it as a sport, and how you win in a sport? By scoring, if you are stronger on the guard, then obviously you will pull guard, it's that simple.

Pulling guard in a bar!!! Not the best idea.

@af4396

Жыл бұрын

Why not? If they're untrained, you can do a lot of damage from guard. Off balance immediately and go for sweeps or go for arm/leg attacks. If they try to lift you up you can easily lumberjack sweep (not hold onto the guard, obviously). Unless you're fighting someone trained in BJJ, it won't be a worse option than trying to engage in takedowns (something people naturally defend quite well). Also, you can't use the "they'll have friends" argument. If someone has friends, it doesn't matter what position you have, and MOST of the time it doesn't matter what martial art you know. You're f***ed. At least if you're on the bottom you can use the guy on top as a body shield against knives while choking him out :P

My school does takedowns from the jump alongside your ground stuff so that neither is lacking that much by the time ur a blue belt imo

Guard pullers don’t go to Valhalla

I don't know why we would cut out half the martial art to favor guard pulling. Why do tournaments start on the feet if so many people are going to just sit down. That's like cutting out armbars or chokes. Jiujitsu then becomes just a game and in sport it is but I sure don't want to neuter a grappling art because people never learn how to break posture and take someone to the ground. You should be able to force the fight to the ground if the whole art is about grappling. I think Jiujitsu practitioners think that take downs are just singles and doubles which require alot of energy but there alot of low energy, low risk upper body takedowns that can be done. The only time I advocate guard pulling is when a takedown has already been successfully applied to you and now your options are HOW you land.

For the only bjj competition point of view too much Judo, or nage waza if you prefer, can result in bad habits due to the different rule sets, and the other way around to much bjj or ne waza can be bad if you want to go full competition in Judo, however cross training in both, if you, like me, are not focused on competition just self defense and fitness, it's great and it's the "full Japanese" grappling experience as i see it, I'm no one, but for me today judo and bjj should be more together and not that "vs" thing that it's usually on the internet, this usually comes from people that doesn't practice judo or bjj.

@oreocarlton3343

6 жыл бұрын

Both IBJJF and Judo are pretty dull to watch that is why ADCC is fluorishing - I advise making a hibrid Gi jiu-jitsu sport of Judo and BJJ that give more points on takedowns and allows more groundwork unlike in Judo under current rules. Both sports could profit, even higher BJJ belts suck at takedown and Judo newaza of a black belt is comparable to that of a basic BJJ blue belt. Having a hibrid sport of Judo and BJJ might reverse the sportification of both.

@Sr.D

6 жыл бұрын

Oreo Carlton as a practicioner of both i would love that rule set, but then it would be truly impossible to separate both

@oreocarlton3343

6 жыл бұрын

also, I think it would better BJJ tremendously and we would see more Roger Gracie simple style BJJ - by that I mean less decorative, more MMA and self-defense applicable BJJ.

@Sr.D

6 жыл бұрын

Oreo Carlton i can't agree more with you sir, everything every point you made.

oss

Stand up and takedowns worth it? two words: TRAVIS STEVENS

I’m 38 years old blue blt, tall and lanky, never did Wresting in high school or college but my school is very wrestling takedown based and it’s frustrating at times. BJJ is ground fighting and the way I see it, if I can get it to the ground one way or another it shouldn’t matter, if I can’t get the take down I’m pulling. End of story. I’m open to it all though

@af4396

Жыл бұрын

That's the right attitude. If you CAN'T get the takedown, and you're realizing your energy level is going down rapidly, do a proper guard pull that sets up advantageous position and grips for you. I generally like trying takedowns on equal weight/smaller guys, but if I'm 30secs into a match with a bigger guy and I'm not getting anywhere, guard pull. 1) I don't want to get taken down, I'd much rather have my hips on theirs and 2) I want to train BJJ, not gas out in 5 minutes of violent rollercoaster rides on the feet.

I never pull guard get it to ground the judo way

@marcelozerbini5411

2 жыл бұрын

The Judo way is the way.

Is that guy a coral belt?

@jordanthompson7243

6 жыл бұрын

PEDOBEAR489 no. Black belts just have red bars

The answer is no

single and double leg takedowns are a regular skill in Krav Maga. We train them often. The purpoose for them in Krav is totally different then for BJJ. We train for survival - not sport. However since I have been training in Krav since 2010 - we do more and more JJ train.

Then I should be able to slam you for pulling guard and/or if you pull guard and points are being awarded I get 2 points. Let us all know what real fight is focused totally on the ground? This playing the rules is what has ruined many a martial art competition. sigh.....

@oreocarlton3343

6 жыл бұрын

Kn P it is what it is, ibjjf rules are like that

@oreocarlton3343

6 жыл бұрын

Kn P it is what it is, ibjjf rules are like that

@Augustin54

6 жыл бұрын

Look at boxing. How many real fights are actually just punching and don’t end up on the ground at all? Sigh...

@highsoflyify

6 жыл бұрын

+asud915 Yeah look at boxing again and you will see two clinching fighters every 20-30 seconds. If they were able or willing to go the ground, they could do it in almost every clinch. To take someone down at will is one of the most important skills in fighting

@Augustin54

6 жыл бұрын

highsoflyify thanks for proving my point. Imagine if i could strike someone every time I got to mount or even in someone’s guard. That’s just the rules

Takedowns are more dangerous than submissions. What ridiculous nonsense. I have no idea why this is an attitude in bjj.

Pulling guard is overrated as fuckkkk....im so glad that ADCC deduct points for pulling guard

Osoto gari is too easy to conter throw

@jimmyalderson1639

6 жыл бұрын

César Alves hahahhahaha funny one mate

@josenildo6558

6 жыл бұрын

Only if you do in slow motion