Public school teacher here. I listened to the entire video. I’ve worked at 3 districts almost all grade levels. I choose home school every day more than ever…

@rebeccainspiringhope4357

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for speaking up. He chose homeschool as well.

@karashiveford

Жыл бұрын

Same. I teach in the public school, but my son is homeschooled - and we live in a very rural area in the heart of the Bible Belt.

Public school teacher here, 1st grade. This experience has definitely shown me that I do NOT want to send my children to public school. Agree 1000% with Voddie Baucham that the curriculum we often teach is not “neutral”, but truly anti-Christian, as I am having to DAILY sift out truth from error so my students will know the Truth. Let alone the anti-Christian ethics being covertly taught that are NOT curriculum based. Education in America is both explicitly taught and implicitly taught, and kids don’t always have the ability to recall the implicit teachings that take root in their heart. Kids are being discipled morally, emotionally, spiritually, as well as academically in these places, which is a LOT to deconstruct after the fact. They need a strong foundation before they are tasked to enter into and reach an anti-Christian world. Won’t be teaching in public-ed for much longer 😞 hope this helps someone.

@allisontroy12

Жыл бұрын

@@rayd9639 Hello, thank you for the reply. In regards to your initial question, "What parts of the curriculum is anti-Christian?", I can provide two tangible examples (though there are more) of the curriculum we use to help with this question. In first grade, we teach units on the origin of the universe and the Earth and species. The curriculum does endorse the idea of the 'Big Bang' theory, Darwinian evolutionary theory (which is now being redacted by modern scientists and previous supporters of the theory). I do not need to go into detail as to why this teaching is problematic for Christian parents of 6 and 7-year-olds who send their child to receive public education. Secondly, the curriculum we use teaches an overview of world religions. In our lesson on Christianity, I have found that unfortunately, students are being taught and shown an inaccurate representation of the Jesus of the Bible. A quote from our read-aloud depicts Jesus as "a prophet who lived long ago", and that Christians merely try to live our lives by the Ten Commandments (only partly true, but falls short of the whole truth). I have found that I need to bring clarity to my students about who Jesus really was and is in order for their misconceptions to be properly addressed. A great deal of my students are either Catholic or have never been to church, so it is important that I present the RIGHT Jesus to them above what the curriculum says. As for the other things that you have stated, I do not think I understand what you are trying to communicate. These are not principles being taught, but explicit teachings that are perpendicular to the Bible. I hope that these examples will shed light to the truth that anti-Christian teachings that are indeed being taught in public schools.

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

Same, I quit and moved out of state to be home with my children. Home girl gets it wrong

@MeganGantt22

Жыл бұрын

God bless you for trying to make a difference and thank you for your honesty! ❤

@allisontroy12

Жыл бұрын

@@MeganGantt22 thank you!

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

@@allisontroy12 Christians are real fragile if they think their kids are endangered learning about basic beliefs of other religions. “Jesus was a prophet from long ago” is a perfectly valid belief for anyone who wants to live in the US and go to public schools. This neutrality you speak of doesn’t take away from you and your kid’s ability to practice Christianity, it prevents Christians from having power over everyone in this country. One’s faith is not strong if simple facts like: Jews believing Jesus was just a prophet, is threatening.

Her point about how our decisions not to put our children in public school creates a vacuum. I would just like to say I am not responsible for other children but I do have a duty to raise mine! I can't make my decision based on others but the conviction God gives me!

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

AMEN

@jannad3406

Жыл бұрын

Exactly my thoughts too!

@neilwhitaker6284

Жыл бұрын

agree, I'm not going to throw my children to the wolves because somebody else is worried about a vacuum. I can't fix the school system but I can love, nurture and protect my children.

Homeschool is the safest place for your kid. Period. This woman says that if she had homeschooled, there would have been a homicide. I know she is joking, but that is exactly why it would have been good for her to homeschool. With all her Bible teaching, etc she never learned how to deal with the frustrations and pressures of being around her kids 24/7 and teaching them? That says a lot to me. When you homeschool your kids, you have to depend on God every minute for His grace to do the job. And that is one of the best reasons to homeschool--it changes us, not just our children.

@rdnugent1

Жыл бұрын

Far be it from me to side with Jen Wilkin, but she does have a point. Not every home is safe for homeschooling. For instance, there is a high rate of sexual abuse in homeschooling families, especially when there are a lot of kids and adolescents in the home. Of course, nobody likes to talk about this, because we uphold families with a lot of children that homeschool as the gold star standard for Christian life, and if anyone ever points out the flaws, they're automatically branded as homeschooling haters or against large families (neither are true.) But there are serious and often complicated problems with this idea that every family should be homeschooling, regardless the family situation. I'm not a proponent of public school at all, but I think all churches who are serious about keeping children out of public schools should get serious about financially aiding families so that they can afford Christian school (or better yet - start their own Christian school.)

@rebeccainspiringhope4357

Жыл бұрын

She’s got a lot of spiritual growth that she failed to grow…

@phyllissmith2538

Жыл бұрын

@@rdnugent1 I'd like to see your supporting evidence of this. I suspect it is a very small percentage. Christian schools can abuse too. But it is not the norm.

@rdnugent1

Жыл бұрын

@@phyllissmith2538 As far as evidence goes, I have only anecdotal. Our former church did an entire conference on sexual abuse in the church, and it is much more rampant than people would like to acknowledge. While abuse CAN happen anywhere (including Christian schools), the particular that makes abuse in the home is that it is insular. It's easier to keep secrets and cover up things in an individual home with one "head" than it is in a large building with hundreds of kids and a swath of adults with some semblance of accountability. If a family's ideology is that the husband/father is the head, that appearances of being a "good, Christian family" is paramount, and that there is even a tight firewall between the family and any thing on the outside, it's a petri dish for secrecy, no accountability, and sometimes, abuse. Our pastor and his wife have seen countless examples of this, as they have been called upon by other churches across the country to come and help whenever a church discovers there is sexual abuse in a family within their congregation. I could go on much longer, giving other reasons, but I'll stop at this point.

“We cannot continue to send our children to Caesar for their education and be surprised when they come home as Romans” - Voddie Baucham

@anonymousmouse505

Жыл бұрын

Don't quote that guy here, you'll get banned 😂

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

You do realize the United States is still a very Christian nation right? Sending your kids to public school still means kids are around a lot of Christians. It’s just that they are different kinds of Christians and a few non-ones of course. Should be alright though because Jesus walked among poor and different people right? If anything you have it the exact opposite. Sending kids to private school is sheltering them in the most affluent settings with the wealthy. Their status and beliefs as wealthier people are maintained which is like exactly what the Roman Empire was to the poor people in the Middle East during Jesus’s time.

@jacobbrown4201

Жыл бұрын

This comment is so ignorant of the climate of public school

@awilson8521

Жыл бұрын

​@@rayd9639 The United States is very much secular. There is no prayer or scripture in public schools taught as the Truth.

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

@@awilson8521 Would a Jew be correct in saying the US is secular because the Torah/Talmud isn’t taught as the truth in public schools? What are your views on the freedom on religion in the first amendment?

I find it unbalanced that this debate is by two parents who are virtually empty nesters with college graduates..The state of public education has drastically changed in the last 5 years which also varies from state to state and that wasn't really addressed.

@valerieedwards9536

Жыл бұрын

Not only that but the fact that there is no diversity here. When trying to include different experiences, you must include diversity in the people you interview.

@nykka3

Жыл бұрын

@@valerieedwards9536in what way?

@ahandfuloffun

Жыл бұрын

@nykka3 Possibly because there were no parents who currently have school aged children at home that are in public school, private school and who are homeschooled?

@crystals6609

3 ай бұрын

Soooo true

Id like to see Jen and Voddie have a discussion on this topic 😊

@Furen

Жыл бұрын

I think the difficulty with that one is that the debaters are asked to present their case with good faith towards the others, and I (personally, anyway) haven't see much, if any, charity from Baucham. Certainly not from the overwhelming majority (or loud minority, which is just as likely) of his constituent. Even if he does have better points (or at least equal points) to Wilkin's position, there is an ethos in conversations like this which seems to be ignored around this topic with the crowd that follows him, and I suspect he has a part to play in that.

@mktay2067

Жыл бұрын

Do you think there is good faith in saying we need to push back on parents who homeschool?

@Furen

Жыл бұрын

@@mktay2067 are you asking me?

@hannahrees9272

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

@Furen

Жыл бұрын

I think there needs to be pushback on the rhetoric as a whole. Parents who choose to homeschool after deciding for themselves that homeschool is the most God-honouring thing to do (for them, or even for others), they should wholeheartedly homeschool. Those who see public school as the best option should too honour God with their wholehearted devotion through their stewardship. And both sides should advocate why they want their side to win out, but not condemn the other side in ways unfairly representative of the opposing view. So, no. I don't think we should push back on homeschooling or people who choose to homeschool, so long as this isn't a lazy decision, just as we should not of public school as long as it isn't a lazy decision.

It's more important for our kids to get to heaven than it is to get them to Harvard. Homeschooling is the right choice for us.

@joshuaclaibourn9847

Жыл бұрын

That’s so good. Heaven over Harvard. Or Heaven > Harvard. I can see the homeschool t-shirts now.

@dorothyclark8680

Жыл бұрын

LOVE THIS!!!

@jimmycliftonartist

Жыл бұрын

amen

@jbourne2013

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

@jaimeraleigh4568

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

As a former public school teacher, I agree. There is so much wasted time in the classroom and so much that goes on that parents are unaware of and unable to parent their children through. I homeschool 9 children 5 of our own and 4 of my deceased friend’s children. This requires many financial sacrifices, but our children are worth it. We are active in our community and serve inside and outside of our church in a variety of ways. I have a dream of starting a school down the road to give other children these opportunities. Allowing the secular (at best) state to decide what’s best for children educationally seems counterintuitive.

@modelingmotherhood

Жыл бұрын

Bless your heart for stepping up and homeschool a friends children. I’m sure that mama is so so grateful. ❤️❤️❤️

@momofmany6619

Жыл бұрын

@@modelingmotherhood ♥️♥️♥️

@laurenlong2077

Жыл бұрын

O😢p

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Excellent.

I was a public school educator for 14 years in 2 different districts and I recently resigned to be with my young children ( 2 and 4) and I WILL NOT be sending my kids to public school. It is such a discouraging environment. Most parents don’t know what really goes on at school, because If they did they wouldn’t send them to it.

@homeschoolmom779

Жыл бұрын

Same. I was a teacher aide. I quit and pulled my kids out of school and I now work part time.

@person6768

Жыл бұрын

If you want to make a difference start talking to your local church about providing classes in the school the five days it's closed. Somebody has got to start providing other options and it should be the church since we can't seem to get legislation on school choice.

@shieldoffaith8798

Жыл бұрын

amen. the ladies at my church are asleep because they're all a much older generation. they don't see how times have changed

I graduated over 10 years ago now and I got a decent sampling of public school having attended 9 different elementary, 2 middle schools and 1 HS. Even I vowed to NEVER send my kids to public school and I was an atheist who vowed to abort my babies. I was subtly taught to challenge my parents, that Marxism was good, God was bad, motherhood was abhorrent, etc, etc. Praise God I didn't abort, but was rather saved by our Lord & Savior after becoming a mother. Took some convincing my husband, but after 2020 he got totally on board with the idea of homeschooling. Lol. Now with our 4th on the way, we are still going to homeschool all our our kids, praise God.

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Praise God!

@marshahester4498

Жыл бұрын

Thank you and God bless you and your sweet family.

@gabriel-1957

Жыл бұрын

What a testimony you have,🙏🙏🙏

@leajohnson10

Жыл бұрын

❤❤

I’ve been a youth pastor in 2 different cultural contexts. I’ve had public school, home school and Christian school families. Students walking with the Lord during their school years and post graduation predominantly come from home school families, some come from Christian school families and almost none come from public school families. I was a staunch public school kid when I got married. I wouldn’t even consider home school. But after a decade of being a student pastor it’s almost not even a conversation that homeschool was the best option for our family in discipling our kids.

@joshuaquinn2650

Жыл бұрын

I have taught in two different public schools so I am not sure where you are working but some of the best young Christians I have met came from public schools. I have met far less really strong Christians ready to be a part of the kingdom from private Christian schools. As a matter of fact I have seen a lot of racism, pride and bullying in Christian schools.

@Bnasst

Жыл бұрын

Interesting... I worked in Columbus and Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty much had the same experience in both places. Parents play the biggest role in the student walking with the Lord post-graduation. But from my experience, parents who sent their kids to public school had the least involvement in their student's education; they seemed more concerned about athletics and extracurricular. I'm not saying there are no outliers. I worked for 2 years at a private Christian school as well, and I would agree with your assessment.

@rfulop

Ай бұрын

I see the opposite in youth ministry: our homeschool and Christian school kids tend to be more cliquey and exclusionary. Our public school kids are more steadfast and kind. That said, I think a parent/guardian's involvement in their kid's life is the most important factor, especially in the later teenage years. This is in the Bible Belt though (Rural Eastern Kentucky). Most teachers are likely sympathetic to Christianity, if not following Christ themselves.

I seriously question her discernment after watching this video.

@warringwomenofzion3427

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

@GiaMiller-qu2xd

10 ай бұрын

Why?

It’s not selfish to homeschool your babies. To have an opportunity to pour into our kids on a daily basis in order to help create humans who are critical thinkers, empathic, smart, God fearing, caring people will heavily effect society in a very positive way. To choose to homeschool does not mean we neglect society. Improving society starts at home with our babies. Also: Is “homework time” considered positive family time together?

@sdlorah6450

Жыл бұрын

Conscientious, loving parents pour themselves out to provide a quality education and rich home life for their children in a homeschooling scenario. A mother who reads and discusses quality books with her children has given them so much! This was a staple of our homeschool through to graduation. Homeschoolers can let their children feast on the Bible and classic stories and books that nourish their minds and hearts. I once tutored a young girl in elementary school in the public school system. Her 'reading list' featured a number of dystopian books. As I scanned the list, I saw nothing beautiful, meaningful, or 'meaty.' Mothers busy with careers or who have chosen to delegate their children's education to others likely have little time or interest in researching quality books and reading them to their children.

@joshuaclaibourn9847

Жыл бұрын

I’d actually argue that choosing not to homeschool is selfish. You are delegating your God given responsibility to raise your child to the state.

@J_a_k_e388

9 ай бұрын

YES!!

So sad to hear another mom ignore the longing God placed in her heart to be with her children.

This was not a "debate" on whether Christians "should" send their kids to public school. Thhis was a discussion of the pragmatics and personal opinions in regards to two narrowly defined forms of education. A debate over "should" Christian kids attend public education revolves solely around whether or not the education model is Biblical and whether what these children are taught is glorifying to God.

@blindspotmillennial9053

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. This was a huge miss. In addition, I don't think they properly defined education. They defined learning subjects in different settings. Education is the process of taking a child to adulthood through transferring a lifestyle. For the Christian, it is enculturating them in what it means to be a Christian in EVERYTHING. How do we LOVE the Lord with our mind? Are there "secular" subjects? By no means! Teaching anything apart from the authority of Christ is ignoring that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.

@Reformed1

Жыл бұрын

This is the only comment I’ve read that tracked back to the Lord’s Word as the ultimate guide for the church. Praise the Lord

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@peachrachel5066

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, she divided "education" from "Christian formation." The Bible does not do this.

We homeschool our 3 for several reasons. 1) We know we can educate them better than public school. 2) We don't want them to be raised by their peers. 3) It's our responsibility to disciple them, and we do that as we teach, imparting a Biblical worldview into education. 4) We want the freedom to say, "we control our schedule, not a school district,' so, we go on vacation when places aren't crowded and such. 5) Socialization is much more natural in a homeschool environment. When else in life, besides school, are you surrounded by ONLY people your age? 6) We started out as the typical 8-5 family who only spent a couple of rushed hours a day with our kids. That didn't seem to be good for any of us. So, we changed it.

@candacew-s2936

Жыл бұрын

Point #2 "We don't want them to be raised by their peers" - absolutely an important point. Remembering my teaching years, that was an unexpected observation, the remarkable power and influence of the peer group. I taught first in a Christian school, then in a secular private school. My last years of teaching were in public education. I was surprised that the peer influence in public education was so much stronger and mostly negative. I think home education, done well, is the best option if you can pull it off.

@threearrows2248

Жыл бұрын

We love homeschooling!! Such freedom and the joy of spending time together as a family, which I never knew we missed until COVID hit and I got my babies back.

@GiaMiller-qu2xd

10 ай бұрын

Formerly homeschooled here - what you’re saying does sound okay but it assumes that your should be the only power/control/influence in your kid’s lives. I know many formerly-homeschooled kids and let me tell you, the results long-term can be disastrous. It’s not how society is meant to function. Even with loving, well-meaning parents, you just don’t give your kids the tools they need to enter the real world. I dearly love and respect my parents but I don’t know if any formerly homeschooled kids who now would choose to do the same. It has a lot more to do with parental pride than it does what’s best for the kids - otherwise more proem would be asking out opinion instead of jumping in assuming they know what’s best. many of my peers did not turn out to be able to function in the works well, and many had no idea how to have strong faith in the real world. The work force in includes many different types of people. Controlling your own schedule, your kid’s schedules, every single thing they learn, every kid they know - it’s just not healthy and doesn’t lean into trusting God. Remember, even Jesus lived in Egypt for a time. I understand the desire to homeschool but I dislike that people think its better. It’s not better (I understand it could be in some very broken school systems) it’s simply alternative.

Homeschool parents still have to pay full taxes to schools even though they get absolutely no resources if their students are not enrolled. So for Jen to say that homeschooling is selfish because we’re not thinking of our community, that’s pretty ridiculous. On top of that, by homeschooling, we are also decreasing class sizes and demands on teachers (thereby bettering the education of the students enrolled), all the while sacrificing half of our family income and still giving money yearly to the public schools. Ugh, it’s just really frustrating to hear her frame homeschoolers and selfish and not “loving our neighbors.” Homeschooling is not selfish!

@Kendall.S

Жыл бұрын

👏👏👏👏👏

It blows my mind that she is totally fine with the wasted time in the public school system and with the fact that her kids spent “every minute” after school doing more school work.

How in the world did this woman become the primary teacher/influencer of women ministries in our churches? How? Every time I hear her speak or skim read her bible study material, I end up dumbfounded, asking this question again.

@mrscynthia

Жыл бұрын

Amen amen amen.

@standingonthepromises285

Жыл бұрын

Amen amen amen amen, I've never heard of her but I'll pass

@warringwomenofzion3427

Жыл бұрын

Me too! 😮

My question is "why does TGC want Christian parents to send their kids to be taught by a godless society?"

If you didn’t want to homeschool before, listening to her arguments for public school might push you that way 😊 In all seriousness, this was NOT a debate. She basically admits that she couldn’t handle homeschooling (she joked about a homicide occurring) and that her mom had a horrible experience in a christian school. So she didn’t choose to public school as much as she chose to NOT be at home with her kids or pay for them to have a bad experience at a christian school. Also, all of her arguments were about the good of other kids. The only benefit she really noted was that her kids are around kids of a diverse socio economic background and special needs kids.

@hannahrees9272

Жыл бұрын

Yes, agreed!

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, you don’t need to go to public school to be around SED children. You could go with your children and serve in a soup kitchen, organize a toy drive or any other meaningful engagement that isn’t simply sitting there next to a child who is SED and four grade levels below in ELA.

@jasonmason066

Жыл бұрын

It wasn’t even a debate, she slayed him

@sugarspice7768

Жыл бұрын

but were her kids around diverse groups? schools reflect the neighborhood your living in. so not much diversity there. And as for special needs kids--- they are usually segregated from the "typical" kiddos. Much of her language really points to how much her thinking is saturated in worldly thinking. I heard she is some sort of Bible teacher---- that was surprising because there is little of God's Word in her argument. She is the next Beth Moore I'm guessing.

@sugarspice7768

Жыл бұрын

​@@jasonmason066 🤣

Overall, Jen's statements were a stronger argument for pulling your kids out of public school than anything Jonathan said. And I must say, it's remarkable how much she knows about what isn't being taught in public schools now, with all of her kids not having been in those schools for 4 or more years, in one school in one district of a relatively conservative state.

@gokupepper

Жыл бұрын

Not only is she in a conservative state, but she also lives in one of the most affluent areas of the state. Even so, she has no idea how much underhanded indoctrination takes place in a public school.

I really hate it when I hear Christians joke along the lines of “there might have been a homicide” or “I’m gonna kill ___” but all the more awful to say “if I had had my kids around me all the time and tried to teach them… I might have killed them. 1st of all… no you probably wouldn’t. 2nd of all its not a joke, as anyone actually touched by homicide knows. But it shouldn’t take personal experience for this to be acknowledged.

@eurekahope5310

Жыл бұрын

If you can't parent 24 hours a day, it is parenting that needs work not the necessity of sending them off for 8 hours.

@warringwomenofzion3427

Жыл бұрын

This grieves my heart too 😢

Homeschool mom here (first year!) and I mentor a 5th grader at our local inner city school. I love that Jen mentions supporting our local schools while doing what is best for our family and children. To us, the benefits of homeschool outweigh public school, but that doesn't mean we step out of serving the local school. Additionally, I think Jen lives in Texas, which is a much different public school environment than here in Michigan. Additionally, I think it's important to note that Jen admits she has had a bad experience with private schools. That makes sense that she pushes public school for her own family. Lastly, we werent ALLOWED in the school for two years due to Covid- so being involved has been taken from us.

@shelbyputnam2354

Жыл бұрын

agree i’m in MI too and I get this!!

@humz403

Жыл бұрын

Did you watch the whole discussion? Jen literally said that we "ought not be doing what's best for our family". But instead, adopt the Marxist tripe of doing what's best for the whole (as if supporting public education accomplished that).

@elizabethconyers5179

Жыл бұрын

Public school teacher & parent here. Thank you for your support! We're not in competition

@chaeliackerman1394

Жыл бұрын

Thank YOU for pouring into students. You guys are the real heroes. Can I ask a question? Does it feel hurtful towards your profession when you hear of a parent homeschooling? I would hate for that to be the case because I truly want wonderful public schools and want to support them.

@youkennybtube

4 ай бұрын

These comments are scary. As Christians it baffles me how we can slander and malign other Christians. Feel free to disagree with her, but discounting her ministry and even discounting the scripture she used and instead calling her marxist is wild. There are many Christians that dont have the ability to homeschool. These comments could leave those Christians to feel shame and even judged. Lets be more Christian while maintaining your convictions.

This was fantastic. My main follow-up question is whether all their children are still Christian or not? Not that we can perfectly execute a plan to "grow" Christians, but I think that's a factor I'd love to know.

@graceb710

Жыл бұрын

Me too!

As a Public schooled student I gotta say I hated it there, for many reasons mainly for stifling my curiosity and boring me to death with their approach to teaching. Not to mention the teachers- most of whom were not good examples and the kids even more so. After working in public schools for 5 years, I decided to quit and become a homeschooling mom. It’s a sacrifice and we are not as well off as our peers but I would not have it another way. We love our days learning and exploring and most importantly God and the Bible are in every subject and part of every lesson.

I was so frustrated watching this. It’s like they hand-picked somebody who wouldn’t give a real robust defense against Jen Wilkin. I appreciate her. I’ve been to the Village Church. I’ve read her books. She’s a very good apologist for public education. She’s not shy about it, so why can’t they find somebody to debate her who’s not willing to be shy about it on the other side. Throw an arrow in the room of 100 homeschooling mothers who’s homeschool their children K through 12 and they could probably give a better defense. The gentleman was nice enough and nothing against him, but it wasn’t really in my opinion a true debate . She lives in (as she states ) a very good school district. Probably one of the top in Texas. She was able to be super involved and had a family member that is part of the school system. That’s something that 99% of people could not replicate in this country. So the debate seemed kind of one-sided, but also for the wrong reasons. 

@haleeburch

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Can you imagine Jen debating Voddie on the topic of education? Or Nicki Truesdale?

@TheRicoBellChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@haleeburchoh she would never debate them. She would get demolished in that debate. I pray she gets the opportunity to find a actual debate

@mandybeth6175

Жыл бұрын

Amen to that. I think a lot of homeschool mothers would love an opportunity to respond to this “debate”.

@bethanykmyers

Жыл бұрын

100%

@bryarpatch170

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, unfortunately it seemed like this guys version of “good faith debate” was more like “I’m so sorry I disagree with you, will you forgive me?”

Are the Christian teachers actually being vilified and maligned by their Christian friends OR is the reality of the rot of public school being talked about and the Christian teachers assume that means them too? I support Christian teachers being missionaries in the public school. I think most Christians do too. That doesn’t equate to needing to have our kids discipled for 8 hours a day by people who aren’t always Christians. Some who are actively looking to subvert parents, despite the naivety that Jen seems to have on this issue.

@lindsaybarlow7946

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the public school teacher aspect is a completely separate issue not even worth mentioning in this video.

@laurastone6776

Жыл бұрын

Great points

@hannahrees9272

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@graceb710

Жыл бұрын

Great point.

I definitely don’t think Jen’s experience is normal. As someone currently in BC Canada who has a school board in our town with 5/8 school board members who are trans/gay etc we are in a loosing battle. The number of poor graphic and sexual books being encouraged to be in our libraries is unreal. The fact Jen has access to what curriculum is being taught is not normal. Our school district has actually band parents from knowing whT is being taught. Again her exerpienece isn’t the normal public school experience. We pulled our kids 2 years ago after 5 years of extreme bullying in public school we opted for a Christian private school and the bullying carried over there. Our kids are not sacrifices. I whole heartedly disagree with Jen’s poi my of view that we shouldn’t be looking at what’s best for our family but the community. Again I’ll repeat, at what cost?!? Should our children’s mental health suffer and the just allow them to be bullied to the point of wanting to commit suicide? Jen’s experience is not normal for public school at all. Interesting her kids were not involved in extra curriculars. I think homeschool students absolutely have constant connect with kids of all socio and economic backgrounds - homeschool groups, extra curriculars, church, neighbors - being in contact with all of the above gives your kids access and experience with kids of all ages and backgrounds.

@haleeburch

Жыл бұрын

I thought that those comments about community over family sounded like she has been indoctrinated by the public school system into socialism. As the church, yes, the church should be acting that way within itself. But… the government? I don’t think that’s taught in scripture.

@humz403

Жыл бұрын

I think you need to ask yourself, is Jen actually this naive or is there a level of subversion here? I know some public teachers who are Christians trying to remain firm and faithful, and they all acknowledge how hard it has become (and becoming). The idea that someone can answer this question "Yes", without very careful qualification is absurd. And almost everything she said was not justified or based on emotion.

@User873x0

Жыл бұрын

What do you mean the bullying carried over? How would the new school deal with it?

@kariwhitehead3952

Жыл бұрын

Were in BC as well and I fully agree with what you said.

@User873x0

Жыл бұрын

Did the bullying stop in the Christian school? I’m thinking of sending my daughter to our local one.

I would love to hear from their children about their individual perspectives on their education experiences. That would be super enlightening as well. Great discussion.

@jefftube58

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's one thing to hear her version of things, but ask the kids !

Another former public school teacher turned homeschooler here. We are a growing community.

“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.” -Vladimir Lenin

Something we as parents must always remember is that children are not a distraction from ministry. They are the greatest ministry that God has given us. Just imagine the impact raising just one Godly child could have on the world. Society and public schools have changed drastically in just the last few years-and not for the better. This is something Jen has been privileged to avoid. Choosing to send kids to public school is gambling. You never 100% know what they are being taught, even if you’re a teacher in the next class over. Personally, I’ve seen the village and I don’t want it raising my kids.

@TheRuckFarm

Жыл бұрын

So well said!

@GuidoDeBres-kg2bx

Жыл бұрын

Amen, not only do I not want the “Village” raising my children, I don’t want them attending the Village church either lol.

@J_a_k_e388

9 ай бұрын

No flack towards her by any means, it is important to note Dallas is a little Bible belt. Even if there is some liberalism in part.

@J_a_k_e388

9 ай бұрын

Love you brother, the Village is a wonderful church. Jesus died for His Bride, let us love each other with the same love.@@GuidoDeBres-kg2bx

Jen's experience sounds much like mine. The problem comes with the generational slide. Parents assume that school now can't be that much different than their experience. This world and it's beliefs are marching ever onward toward Godlessness unless guarded or, when needed, reformed. Remember that at a time in these United States nearly all major educational institutions were Christian in orthodoxy and orthopraxy. What public education in the US once was, was a blessing from it's founding. Where it still flourishes is a testament to inherited blessing from submission to God and His law. There is a time to abandon it. There is a time where we're throwing our kids in the deep end... often times assuming they'll learn to swim or the water isn't so deep as it actually is. Where I live it tends to be the case often that our kids in the public educational institutions are abandoning their faith. They are catechized into the secular world view faster than we can raise the flag of caution.

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

I’m young and grew up Christian. I’ve never understood this common point on how the culture is corrupting kids so much. American culture and history is dominated by Puritan Christian values and it still is. We are still a very Christian nation so all the cultural complaints you have can be caused by the ideology you want to defend. And people like you often connect critical race theory to part of this decline, like learning about Afro-American history and culture, but Black people have some of the MOST Christian beliefs out of any demographic. If anything theirs is more genuine. They are more likely to focus on the love and liberation side of Jesus while white Christians in America are rampant with greed, materialism, and pride.

For the many parents signing the praises of homeschooling on here, I understand your hearts from from a place of love. However, few consider voices like mine (formerly homeschooled). I believe that most people, even well-meaning , good parents who homeschool do it more for themselves. It is done out of anxiety and a need for control and total influence over their kids lives. How can we be prepared for the real world if we haven’t even interacted with it daily? How can we enter a workforce full of non-Christians with wisdom and integrity if we haven’t had any practice along with parental guidance? I do not feel it’s necessarily wrong to homeschool but there is no educational hierarchy. There are pros and cons to both. Having been homeschooled (and yes, it was done fairly well) and known dozens and dozens of homeschooled families, I would never homeschool my own kids. Key point: I’ve seen the long-term outcomes, not the short-term ones. I have seen too many family relationships damaged by Homeschooling. I think it is quite prideful to assume that, as parents, we are the best/only teacher for our kids and should be the only influence. Others may have different and better perspectives than we do. Having our beliefs challenged is okay. We should give our kids some credit. Also, as for other homeschooled kids (as adults) some are Christian, some are not. Many are extremely liberal after entering the real world. Homeschooling is no guarantee for having a child grow up to be a disciple of Jesus. In society we are not meant to be just living our own lives in our own homes while sending our kids out to a group a couple times a week/month for some socialization. We are meant to be in community together. I do not mean to malign anyone but I think that homeschool families should think hard about why they are doing it and what they expect the outcome to be of being the only teacher in their child’s lives. And also looking at our own pride (including myself as well - I know I don’t have the answers!) and pray and ask God to show us His heart. As I said, there is no moral heirarchy in education. Let’s none of us assume we are at the top of one.

I challenge everyone who thinks this is a “nice” debate: does it actually, honestly reflect the real dilemmas in today’s education, or is it just one side completely validating itself with another side weakly pushing back?

@br.m

Жыл бұрын

While listening to this woman speak I kept wondering where does she live? What planet is she from because I don't know any public school on earth that pleases me as much as she is pleased. Something must be wrong with her. I agree with you but I felt like there was no "other side". They were all speaking on behalf of public school. I think we just watched a paid advertisement for public schools.

@outboardprsnlstndup

Жыл бұрын

@@br.m you nailed it

@amberphillips9059

Жыл бұрын

She lives in a more affluent suburb of DFW

@outboardprsnlstndup

Жыл бұрын

@@amberphillips9059 makes complete sense. Of course she does. Having grown up in one of those, she meets all the criteria

@vivamoyer7822

Жыл бұрын

From what I have seen of TGC debates, that is the intent. "Good Faith" doesn't mean use nice voices...it means don't be manipulative and deceitful. Which is exactly what they are doing. They set it up to make Jen Wilkin look like the Victor and promote their liberal, woke, and man centered Christianity. Happy to see from the comments that their plan didn't go so wll

There are many ways to care for your neighbor and city than throw your children into the lion's den.

I wish they would have not just talked about the moral issue in the public school but also the TIME waster issues. Endless performances, dress up days, parties, sooo many things that WASTE teachers time rather than just being able to do what they love…teach. Oh and underpaid. The common parent has NO idea how many ridiculous HOOPs teachers have to jump through. The school system is broken. As much as I love Jen (currently walking through Abide) I wish they would have addressed schedules, and how they rob the children of simple things like PLAY and being outside.

They talk about people who can't homeschool, single moms etc, and Jen's concern about ALL the kids getting a good education and loving our neighbor through being active in the public schools...but what if we as neighbors and friends of these people opened our homes to homeschooling those kids? Formed neighborhood co-ops, so to speak. We would be actively involved in helping our neighbor and being active members of our community. I think it's a myth that homeschooled kids don't socialize and aren't involved in the community. On another note, in our small town, our church is not homogeneous...our kids interact with plenty of kids from different backgrounds. Because I will say as a former public school teacher that education has been turned into a business...it's all about money. It's not about great teachers or bad teachers, it's about kids in seats so the school gets money.

@TheZMom_Emmelia

Жыл бұрын

In my state it’s not legal to homeschool other peoples kids. I am currently opening a private school with extremely low tuition to try to make up for this law.

I have a feeling that TGC wanted Jen’s involvement badly in this discussion but she only agreed to come if she had input in who would be arguing the other side of this “debate”. Therefore, TGC opted to bring along a close family friend to discuss this subject with her and therefore grant her the path of least resistance as she pontificates. If this assumption is actually true, it’s not only saddening but this discussion is as fake as a reality TV show.

I was a public school teacher in CA and I quit my job and rearranged my life and priorities completely, in order to stay home with my two children and raise them and train them in the Lord. I wouldn’t trade it for anything! I grew up in the immoral training of the public school system and I was thrown into a cesspool of evils that I wish I had been protected from. You do not need to be a teacher to homeschool, you have been chosen to raise your children, God will give you all you need as you depend on him. I encourage anyone considering homeschooling to ask your Heavenly Father for direction and leading, he will guide your path ❤

Wilkins personal experience doesn’t make an argument. Its irrelevant to what the majority of public schools are teaching. Secondly, public school by its nature is anti-Christian since it doesn’t teach from a Christian worldview or use the Bible as an ultimate source of authority. In the words of Van Til, there is no neutrality. Our presuppositions about the world, reason, etc are totally different than the non christian.

I worked in the public schools and I will never send my kids there Lord willing 🙏

Imagine if these good faith debates actually tackled these issues biblically…

@laurastone6776

Жыл бұрын

Yes exactly!!! Where is the passion for wanting to educate your children in a biblically foundational way and where is the theological discussion about that? That is what I was hoping to see more of

@TheMrsMegapig

Жыл бұрын

@@laurastone6776 exactly! None of the main reasons most Christians homeschool weren’t even discussed 😂 classic TGC

@joshuaquinn2650

Жыл бұрын

You didn’t listen closely. She mentioned exactly why because you don’t exist in a vacuum. But as Phil said there are those in your community to also support. You could also use Paul’s I am everything to all people argument. My kids aren’t salt and light but they sure do understand a lot about non believers so they know how to talk to them.

@CH-xt4cr

Жыл бұрын

AMEN. As if the Bible has nothing to say on these issues. It's just their experiences and their so called wisdom.

@CH-xt4cr

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuaquinn2650 Yeah sorry, Paul was a grown man. The disciples were trained men who were sent out. Not young kids, adolescent children. The audience of the letter to the Hebrews are rebuked because "they ought to have been teachers, but they needed to be taught themselves again". Grown men and women, who were not yet ready to be teachers, to be disciple makers. And yet, we think children can "go make disciples'. Wrong. Children are the MISSION FIELD, not missionaries. And the secular world understands this, somehow Christians have forgotten in our day. But go back and most of Church history, the Church knew this. They didn't let Caesar educate their children.

Blessed is the parent who puts his child in the counsel of the wicked, in the way of sinners, and in the seat of scoffers; - Psalm 1:1 Jen Wilkin Version

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

Internet win of the day

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Scary 😬😬

@The Gospel Coalition Thank you for this conversation. This question/comment is for Jen. Firstly, my wife and I deeply appreciate your work and incredible Bible teaching. We just finished up your Genesis study and the first half of Exodus and are constantly blown away at the depths of study you provide. Thank you for what you do! We live in more of a politically progressive part of the country. Our own school district has very actively implemented a number of pretty radical policies/pedagogical approaches. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are teachers and administrators in the local public school system (both Christians and non-Christians) that have clearly communicated serious concerns about what is happening on-the-ground in our own local schools and that the environment is becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity as a whole. This includes very specific examples such as gender transitions (without parental knowledge) in 1st grade and an in-school drag queen story hour, during school hours, in a 4th grade classroom, to name a few. When I hear fellow Christians describe parental concerns as "fear mongering" it hurts because our experience has been one of wrestling deeply with these very real concerns. We really struggled with the idea of keeping our children in the local public schools as a way to seek the flourishing of our city, but there came a time when we felt as though the social pressures and secular worldview being foisted on our children on a daily basis were deeply unhealthy in their spiritual and educational development, thus we made the financial sacrifice and began sending our three young girls to a private Christian school. Our family does not want to flee, or use the public school as a punching bag by any means, but we also have seen some really gnarly and unnecessary pressures being placed on our young girls by those deemed authority figures in their lives. In a situation like ours, when we have seen first-hand some of the more extreme examples, how does a Christian healthily engage a system that has become quite hostile to a Christian worldview? Would you please consider not using the phrase "fear mongering" in these conversations? While it may be so for some in certain locations and cultural contexts, there are parents being aggressively confronted with these issues on a daily basis, and many of us feel entirely written off by this particular framing. Personally, when I hear this phrase used, it creates a hurdle for me to hear much else about what you are saying, since it demonstrates that you are clearly speaking into a very different context than what we are experiencing. Again, thank you for what you do! Your brother in Christ!

@candacew-s2936

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your well thought out comment. I hope JW reads it. Public Ed may be sufficient and safe in Bible-belt Texas where JW lives, but in most of the US and Canada (where I live), Public Ed is openly hostile to Christians and the Christian worldview. There is no 'neutrality', and children from Christian homes are in no way able to be 'salt and light' in the current progressive school culture. And secondary to moral and spiritual issues, the educational standards and outcomes are low compared to private schools and UK/EU countries. You cannot trust the progressive Public Ed system to give your children a proper foundation in reading, maths, and sciences, unless you are willing to heavily supplement at home, have a regular tutor, or go to a tutoring center summer program. There is plenty for Christians to fear, so I agree JW should refrain from using "fear mongering" in this discussion. I'm glad there are still a few places where Public Ed is a decent option for Chrtisians, but it is rare. I stand by that. I have teaching experience in secular private, Public Ed, and Christian school. My children went to private and then a Christian school up until high school. No regrets despite the personal costs and financial sacrifices. Dear Christians, I would absolutely try to find a way to educate your children outside of the Public Ed system.

@jmeyering11

Жыл бұрын

@@candacew-s2936 I think one point is that JW did specifically say "I did not send my kids to public school to be 'salt and light' I sent them to get a world class education". Obviously each school district is different, but the idea of our kids being "missionaries" is not one that JW espouses.

@jmeyering11

Жыл бұрын

JW's comment on "fear mongering" was not a call to ignore the stances of public school districts. Her direct comments are "I know what OUR school district is and isn't teaching and what I see happening now around this conversation is a great deal of misinformation and fear-mongering. ... Some of the things parents will say ARE being taught I know are NOT being taught and what I think is happening is people read an article about something that happened somewhere else or they hear a story and there's a lot of hearsay that travels around about what is or isn't going on and because we live in a time where fear is something that is leveraged at every turn it takes root and they end up making a fear-based decision instead of an educated decision. ... There are legitimate things to be concerned about with a public school education but whether your district is actually the one that is implementing those things or not is something that you should get first-hand information on not have heard about from someone else" So I believe her comment is definitely accurate and she is encouraging parents to actually have first hand experience of THEIR SPECIFIC district and make a decision accordingly, but not fall into fear of the "public school system" generally. And I think we can all agree that those fears have definitely been stoked in the absence of personal due-diligence

@StumblingThroughItAll

Жыл бұрын

@@jmeyering11 I agree with you. I do not think Jen is making a bad faith argument here and I know that drumming up emotional responses based on fear is a powerful tool that many of us use or fall prey to all the time. That said, I do find a number of very influential Christian leaders who will use the label of "fear mongering" to deny entire issues and claim that other Christians are simply operating out of fear and/or political idolatry. There is this sense from some of "that isn't actually happening" which leaves a number of us in a really weird spot who actually have been doing our own due diligence and have seen some intense stuff. I want to hopefully bring awareness to the fact that this is indeed actually happening in certain places right here and now and Christian parents are having to wrestle with it and make some really big life-altering decisions accordingly. Our family did. I also think there is a trajectory, that even if your district isn't dealing with it now, it won't be long. Christians should be unsurprised and prepared on how they are going to address this when it comes their way. I find that in this conversation, Jen kind of left of at the point of saying "this isn't happening at our school, and the educations is good, so that's how I come to my stance." But what if, as in many places, it is happening and the education is actually quite poor? I would love for her to engage that question a bit more head on, because it is a reality for many.

@candacew-s2936

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I did note her comment about not having her kids there as "missionaries." I should have specified that the 'salt and light' argument is one I have heard many, many times in convos with Christians who fervently argue that Christians should have their children in public ed. They also argue, as JW does here, that public education is a common good, and as Christians, we should support our communities' families by not 'abandoning ship' but by remaining in the school system because it benefits the community through our presence and participation in Home and School, school board, committees, volunteering etc. I understand that viewpoint both as a Christian parent and retired public ed teacher, and agree that there was a time when Christians could and did make a difference by their presence and participation. That time is long over, in my opinion. No doubt there are some 'good schools', in high income and more 'religious' areas, but it is not the norm. Recent books I'd recommend: re the North American public ed academic decline - 'The Knowedge Gap' by Natalie Wexler. Also, on the moral/spiritual consequences of public education and why Christians should get out, check out 'The Benedict Option' - Rod Dreher.

This wasn't a debate. This was a nice mediated conversation. No cross examination? That's the best part of a debate!

@thereadingtree6288

Жыл бұрын

Dictionary Defnition of the word Debate - "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward". Looks like a debate to me.

I love how most of the comments are so pro-homeschool! I agree with many commenters that her arguments for the public school are not compelling and instead sound like excuses for her decision to not homeschool her children. I am disappointed by the supposed advocate for homeschooling; he seemed rather apologetic for being there to promote homeschool. Although not a Protestant Christian, Matt Walsh makes a great case for homeschooling and would probably dismantle her arguments in short order. As for me and for my house… we will train up our children in the ways of God. We will bear the burden of their education and more importantly, their spiritual formation. My children have been entrusted to me and my wife by God, and it is our responsibility to protect them from evil, and to train them up in righteousness. We firmly believe that homeschooling is the best way to do this. Public schools on the other hand, have no interest in teaching my children any of the values I uphold and would actively try to undo everything I teach for 40 hours a week.

I'm surprised at the volume of comments lambasting public school. Whether you choose to attend or not, these are YOUR schools. You have a civic duty to see that they are properly stewarded and should seek to improve them. What about the millions of children who do not even have a choice? Do Christians vacate the institution out of fear of the lion's den or do we put on the whole armor of God and go do our duty!! I have experienced homeschooling, private school (Baptist), and public school. They all have pros and cons, but at the end of the day I find it hard to honor the call to "go out and make disciples of all nations" if we shrink back from the public sphere.

11:25 Every parent needs to do what is best for their family. That is called being a parent. Nobody would turn their own into a homeless shelter endangering their children and claim, Oh well, I don't need to do what is best for my family but the community by in large. Worst still, what is best for your family is what is best for the society by in large. It is a false dichotomy.

@alainabecerra2243

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!! When she brought this up I wanted to scream. When the scriptures instruct us to care for others it's always within the church. Paul is clear to note this within the scriptures . The public school system and most of the people in it are not part of the church. I'm not sacrificing my children in the name of "community". She's leaning progressive on that.

@exploringtheologychannel1697

Жыл бұрын

@@alainabecerra2243 I will never sacrifice my children on the altar of anything. I am convinced many people are sacrificing their children on the altar of convince, worldliness, wordily success, respectability, sports, etc.

@seth.bryant89

Жыл бұрын

@@alainabecerra2243 When the Scriptures instruct us to care for others, is it always within the church? Is Paul the only one who wrote of how we should care for others in the Scriptures? There is no doubt that there are instances when he is specifically addressing how we love and care for one another within our community of faith

@GuidoDeBres-kg2bx

Жыл бұрын

Loving one’s neighbor should never be done at the sacrifice of their families needs and best interests. I guess in the best interest of others I should start frequenting the local strip club to be salt and light to the dancers. Lol

Our Children attended a publically funded Charter School that was excellent. They were openly attacked for their faith as early as 2nd grade by peers who were atheist and Jewish. One boy in third grade attended school in a dress. My daughter persuaded him to use attire otherwise and remained his friend for years. She had one if her peers believe that she was neither male or female smd this delusion was re-inforced by openly atheist parents. We are very glad they attend a Classicsl Christian education today. Glad for this multi-natiional, multi-ehnic socially amd economically diverse Christiam educational setting in Princeton, NJ. So glad, no regrets.

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

Some Christian people today think being told to respect other’s religions is bullying and oppression.

@johntobey1558

Жыл бұрын

Other religions, or alternate reality?

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

@@johntobey1558 Other religions

I’m a second generation public school teacher who taught 7th grade language arts. I quit because I felt like a social worker and not an educator. (Every teacher complained about it yet was powerless to do anything meaningful.) After becoming a mom and experiencing the infamous lockdown, I saw the social emotional learning (SEL) was actually in every district, not just my former one. Then the Marxist brainwashing that spanned over two generations wore off. Either homeschool or try a Classical Christian school (or both depending on your child) as alternatives. It won’t be easy; however, nothing worth doing typically is... 😊

I would like to know if Jen Wilkin still is involved in her local school in any way. She stated that it was so important for Christians to do this but seemed to imply that it’s while you are raising your own children. I would think that when your children are grown it’s an ideal time to volunteer, attend school board meetings, tutor children who need extra help, etc.

You never 100% know what is being taught in your public schools. What an incredibly naive statement. It doesn’t matter if you are a teacher yourself. How could you presume to always know what the teacher in the class next door is teaching? If you are not in each of the classrooms you just don’t know.

@dancingintherain2493

Жыл бұрын

Facts 💯

The main argument for not sending our kids to public schools should NOT be to just protect them from woke ideology (thought that is still a great reason!). Instead, we should strive to give them a CHRISTIAN education and Biblical worldview, which you're not going to get in a secular institution.

I am not seeing a "debate" here, good faith or otherwise. This seems like we are just saying, homeschoolers stop shaming Christian teachers / parents who utilize public school. Shouldn't debate be making a case for and against a thing? I only came away with the its ok to send your kids to public school. It seems like they don't actually get into the issues, just "for us, this worked." Really frustrated when the guy says "we would not be comfortable sending our kids to the local public school for a number of reasons.." Then not articulating the reasons! comfort is the primary argument?

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

She absolutely made a point to gaslight all parents with valid concerns

@GuidoDeBres-kg2bx

Жыл бұрын

The art of rhetoric isn’t taught in public schools anymore. It would mean discriminating between ideas and advocating one idea is correct over against another.

Well, this sealed it for me. TGC is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Lol

@warringwomenofzion3427

Жыл бұрын

😂

For me it’s not just the secular culture of the school, the pedagogy, the method that public education approaches education is counter to how I want my kids to be educated. One cannot look at all the data and believe that a public school education even meets the bare minimum in most cases.

Shouldn’t we be prioritizing our family?? I understand that it’s important to consider your community as well but it shouldn’t be at the expense of your children

God also put Christian teachers at my school too (public school). It gave me the impetus to seriously consider Christianity as a worldview. EDIT: I had leftist teachers, Republican teachers, and everything in between. Today, however, I think, non-woke educators (I hate the word "woke," because those who describe themselves this way are not woke, but soiritually asleep) wouldnt feel the same freedom to openly share their worldviews in a public school setting. Today we have trans-affirming policies in the name of anti-bullying.

@User873x0

Жыл бұрын

How long ago did you go to school?

@whobeyou5342

Жыл бұрын

As a mother with grown children and as a current mental health therapist contracted to teach in today's public schools, i would offer that public school isnt the same beast it once was. There's a difference between exposure to different ideas- and indoctrination of those ideas.

@User873x0

Жыл бұрын

@@whobeyou5342 yes I agree. There’s sooo many differences in schools now. I attended from 05-17 and there was never any worries of “gender identity” now it’s being indoctrinated, boys dressing like girls, pronouns, and so much more being pushed on kids now. Whatever is being accepted in the world now ( on social media, ads/commercials) is being accepted in schools

We are definitely in the minority but we are sending our kids to our neighborhood school at least for elementary. Private school is not a financial option for us and we do not want to homeschool. I think Jen makes a lot of good points. -- Everyone wants their kid to have a good education. - not just christians.

@dmbsituation

Жыл бұрын

Can your household afford it’s standards of living with only 1 of your incomes? I’ve found finances moreso than conviction are why many households are using public education. The church needs to work on this specific need that many households have where both incomes are required for the household to function and they means private school is cost-prohibitive.

@aflowerforophelia

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for this comment, I feel like the comments on this video are very biased and its uncommon to hear Christians' support their local school, I appreciate your comment!

@user-lj8yl7ts9x

11 ай бұрын

Right there with ya. My kids are also in Elementary. Private school is too expensive. We also have a child with HFA. Which most private Christian schools aren't equipped to handle. Even if we could make it work financially. My wife has no interest in home schooling. I tried to do both Homeschooling and work during lockdown. It was not a positive experience. Teaching is not something I am gifted in.

@cescruz4776

10 ай бұрын

There’s nothing wrong with that. We are sending our children as well. If we raise them right, we should not fear of the school system changing their beliefs. It’s ridiculous that Christian’s look down on working moms, and now if you send them to public school. Sometimes we don’t have a choice, we should support each other regardless in what decisions we make.

@GiaMiller-qu2xd

10 ай бұрын

As someone who was homeschooled, don’t feel guilty - it’s not necessarily better, just another option. I and my homeschooled peers missed out on a lot.

I must firmly disagree with the idea that we shouldn't want/seek for our public schools to become Christian schools. We should! That would be the power of Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel if that did happen.

@joshuaclaibourn9847

Жыл бұрын

Get out of here with that Christian Nationalism. /s haha. I agree.

@jacobkoder4903

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuaclaibourn9847 when you know what it means it really loses it's scare factor, right?

@eurekahope5310

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuaclaibourn9847 The alternative is evil, pagan culture. In fact, Catholic schools started since public schools were really protestant Christian schools. Neutrality is a myth.

@marebear09

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

@misssara9913

Жыл бұрын

Was just about to comment this !!! That statement surprised me so much

Jen has older children. Her youngest is 22 years old.. I also come from a very large family of public school teachers/principals and I beg to differ. Public school is NOT what it was even 5-10 years ago. I think this woman would have a different point of view if she had children currently in the public school system……

@kristya355

Жыл бұрын

I completely agree!

@dmbsituation

Жыл бұрын

And if she lived somewhere different than her current location. A fairly well-off suburb of Dallas VS inner-city education.

@salberthal88

Жыл бұрын

@@dmbsituation Exactly!

I think as parents, we clearly need to know, “is my child feeling socially disconnected, emotionally discouraged, or in a cycle of academic failure” in their current educational setting? If the answers to these questions fall in the negative categories, then prayer needs to be covering the situations that may lead to a change for the next school year. One firstborn, extroverted child with no neurodivergence may thrive in public school- whereas an introverted, free-spirited second born with ADHD (🙋‍♀️) may need a more structured learning environment. Bottom line- prayer works! God will lead you to the answer and the providence for each kid. See the Old Testament story of Ishmael for proof of this.

@elizabethconyers5179

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

I can tell by a lot of these comments that people did not actually pay attention or listen to all sides of the debate discussion. I thought this was a very good conversation with good thought provoking statements. What works for one family may not work for another. Nobody should be telling anybody that only one way is best because of their own biased opinions.

52:00 I went to public school. There is no question that there is a lot of wasted time. We have to be honest. No kid left behind means no kid left behind i.e. everyone waits for the slowest kid to finish.

@joshuaclaibourn9847

Жыл бұрын

No Kid Left Behind also pushes kids who are not ready forward, causing them to continue to struggle and then fall behind academically. My wife teaches 3rd grade and some of them still can’t read. So she spends time teaching them the basic of how to read.

@exploringtheologychannel1697

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuaclaibourn9847 Very very sad. Parents need to be honest and wake up to these realities.

Start making christian school affordable, I would love for my child to go to a private christian school.

Apparently, a “Good Faith Debate” is one in which two people who basically agree with each other either argue for or conciliate to the more liberal position, all in the name of niceness.

This discussion needs to be founded upon the clear commands that god places upon his people. Eph 6:4b; Deu 6:4-9; Lev 18:3; etc. Also we need to take into consideration the historic emphasis of the church on providing Christian education for our children. I spent many years working in public schools and the woke ideology and secular humanism is pervasive. To add to the problem pastors have failed to teach what the Bible clearly teaches on this subject, which has allowed for confusion on this topic.

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

Amen amen amen. Pastors refuse to touch the subject and churches provide no support in shepherding the next generation.

As a graduate of Pennington's school and someone who chose homeschooling and private school for my own kids, I still have to admit that Wilkins had more and stronger reasons for her position in this particular discussion. You can tell that's the case by the closing statements - Wilkins concedes the practical schedule benefits of homeschooling, but Pennington actually conceded the spiritual and social benefit of public school as often the main way families connect with their communities. From personal experience, my family does feel less connected to my community because we don't attend the school of our neighbors. I'm otherwise impressed with the spirit of this video, as this models the freedom and conviction each unique family should practice in their unique circumstance, and how to celebrate and support other families who choose other options. My church has every education method represented, and i think that's a net positive.

My kids go to public school. I have 4 But when then the youngest two get out of preschool we would be interested on homeschooling with a Christian based curriculum. Like classical conversions. But no matters what happens I know that if Gods draws them to himself that there is nothing that can separate them from him. It’s about the world view that they push. I can’t guarantee that saints of old would send their children to secular schools. You make good argument. But everyone has their own preferences. I have to answer to a holy God at some point.

@eurekahope5310

Жыл бұрын

We made the switch and we love it! I definitely recommend getting involved with a co-op (you mentioned Classical Conversations). The accountability and encouragement is amazing while providing children with social opportunities and specialization.

I love her Bible studies and book Women of the Word. However, Jen gets it very wrong in this debate. Former PS teacher here--failing schools failing our students while inundated with humanist propaganda-one would expect better discernment from her.

I didn't like that 6-year-olds spent so much time on computers. Not just for learning, but screen time was a reward, too.

I have always wondered how you could believe that a "State" school would be better than a Christian based type of education. I am not sorry that I did without some things that enabled my children to go to mostly Christian schools. When I went to public schools, it was in the Bible Belt and many of my teachers were Christian and even Pastor's wives. It was a different time. But I will say, being a teen in the 1960's in public school was very influential in my life and like many others, I had to come back to what I believed and renew my Faith as an adult. Surround your vulnerable children with as much of God as you can.

"Well- rounded people can come out of home-schooling" - Jen Wilkin - Does she realise how many weirdos come out of public school? Sorry, but that's such a condescending statement from her.

@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. She seemed shocked that any “normal” people come out of homeschooling. A lot of respect was lost for her from this “debate,” and her condescending tone

@keekp678

Жыл бұрын

Agreed 👍🏻 my kids have been homeschooled their entire lives and can speak to anyone about a variety of topics. They have manners, look people in the eye when they're speaking to them, aren't obsessed with devices or social media and are creative and critical thinkers. I'm sorry but I do not see those traits in the majority of public school kids and I've worked in YMCA programs, Awana and other children programs. It's like talking to brain-dead kids that cannot function without a screen in hand. Public school is the worst place in the world for kids unless you want them to be indoctrinated Marxists that hate what is good and love what is evil.

This was overall a thought provoking discussion. The one big issue I wish they would have spent more time on was addressing how to raise our children in a biblically literate way and in the grace and admonition of the Lord if you are consistently sending them into a system that at the very worst hates God/religion and at best wants to even minimize the Christian foundational idea of this being God's world/his law/his order. I wanted to hear them both discuss how much we as parents must value developing our children as a whole/virtuous person in a rigorous Christian based environment. And honestly at the end of the day that should matter more for us parents, particularly in today's school culture than anything else.

If she wants them exposed to different views, why not a Catholic school? Or Muslim? Or Buddhist?

I love the positives that you are pointing out. My kids are in public school and I’ve taught in public school for years. And we fully believe and are devoted to Christ.

@User873x0

Жыл бұрын

Yeah no negatives. Strange and lies.

It’s hard to take her seriously when I know the school district she is talking about. Jen, if you are going to preach to us about sending our kids to PS for the funding then you should have sent your kids to an inner city school instead of the plush suburban school so that they could have received the funding instead.

Authors not to read: Jen Wilkin Sending your children to public school reflects loving your neighbor? Where did she come up with that. Your kids are gone from your home for 8 hours a day and you believe world views will come from home? Oh child. Homeschool your kids. I promis you, Christian or not, your children will be much better off. Signed a homeschool mom of three.

@kariwhitehead3952

Жыл бұрын

I completely disagree with her on this as well but if the books iv read by her they are great. Not sure where this point of view came from but I have yet to find something so off in any of her other stuff. Always good to decern though!

We had our children in public school but changed after: 1. I personally witnessed a child hurl a desk across the room. Because he has an IEP, he was back the next day 2. A child on our school bus route brought a gun on the bus. The parents did not know about it but I learned from those in leadership. 3. I personally witnessed a child fall asleep and play video games in class. I was warned by teacher not to wake him or he would become aggressive. 4. As a substitute teacher I was hit, kicked, and nearly bitten by a child. When the office arrived they did not remove the child, they removed the class and myself so we could finish class while they "reasoned" with the violent student for more than 45 minutes. 5. The curriculum has changed to make parent assistance difficult. Having tutored honors math, I am quite competent in mathematics. My third grade daughter came home with common core math that required Google searches to figure out what they were asking. Imagine my shock when typing in the question proved it was a very popular search. Other parents were in the same boat. This is part of the equity push that says children should not have homework since parent assistance is inequitable. The social studies curriculum is also very biased. The answer to problems was government. Immigration was always presented as positive without considering that illegal entry and large influxes can cause hardships for natives and immigrants alike. Rather than presenting facts and timelines, there was a constant theme of oppressor/oppressed (critical theory). Now I wonder why it took so long to pull them out. I think we feel like Jen Wilkinson that we could be light in school. But as we hardly had time with them at home, it became apparent that they spent more of their waking time in darkness than sitting with us pouring in the light of truth, God's love, and Scripture. And I have yet to meet someone in the homeschool community opposed to Christian's teaching in public school so I wonder where Mrs. Wilkinson got this perspective.

Two biblical teachers, that are supposed to live their lives according to what the bible teaches and barely a mentioned of the bible and what God has ordained for the family. They both have published books, they are both biblical scholars and all we got was their opinions. Trust not in your own understanding! Read your bible, Genesis to Revelation and figure out for yourself what God would have you do. Here is a hint, nowhere in the bible does it say that you should send your children to Caesar for their education, otherwise as Voddie Baucham said, you will get Romans back. Any biblical teacher, that tries to tell you what you should do and does not have a biblical context to back it up you should wonder how much really do they read their own bibles. For instance when Jen sent her kids to school all of this woke stuff was barely on the radar, now it is everywhere. However the bible does not change, the word of God does not change. Trust only God for how you are to raise your children.

Wisdom from both sides. Love you Jen Wilkins!!!

I’ve taught in the public school system and can guarantee you that I will never send my boy there. I teach in a “conservative” rural district and we still see all kinds of weird things parents just wouldn’t even know about unless they asked.

I honestly don’t know how I feel completely about this “debate”. I know Jen’s experience is somewhat special and not normal due to family members roles/positions w/in the public school system. Someone also brought up the question in the comments about how their children’s current walk with the Lord as adults is not mentioned. This would be nice to know. The following is just me sharing my experience… Being raised in public school 1-12, I can say the “social” aspect sucked. As an adult I often use to tell my mom if you took out the social part of growing up in public school, I really enjoyed my teachers and most of what I learned. The time left over after school (I got involved with extracurriculars so I could stay away from home longer for "independence") even while being in a Christian home was not spent training and teaching me God’s Word outside of church (Sundays & Wednesdays) unless I was in trouble for something. No one sat down and taught me how to read and study the Bible, etc. I didn’t start doing this until almost 10yrs ago. I just knew I didn’t believe in evolution, and I would always tell my mom that was a horrible lesson and a test was coming up for it. I knew nothing else was wrong in what I was taught honestly in regards to worldview. I just had a conversation last week with my oldest after watching the KKK episode of Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, that I remember a boy coming to school who happily boasted about a KKK group in the next county who was trying to recruit him. My son was surprised to hear that. Not to mention the influences around me from peers--only cared about what we wore & clicks, drugs (thankfully I was convicted enough to not try any), sex, alcohol, sneaking around, lying to my parents, etc. We also have personal reasons and convictions. I originally started homeschooling to “get a year back” where I sent my oldest to school full time in pre-k, while I worked full time at a private school. Plus I knew we would move eventually and I didn’t want to go to multiple different schools in the meantime. My husband's work schedule only allowed him to be home in the evenings 1 hr or less before it was bedtime M-Sat. That was a rough year emotionally for all of us and that wasn’t even at public school. I have grown the most as a believer in the years I have been homeschooling. I can’t imagine all of that energy and effort being applied somewhere else after so many years into this. My children are flourishing. My oldest still can’t believe how little I knew about what the Bible says until the past decade. I tell him, “That’s why I’m teaching you guys now because I want you to know. I want you to make decisions based on what God’s Word says.” Plus I noticed Biblical and secular worldviews in what’s being taught wasn’t addressed really. Jen just mentioned having access to what’s being taught in their “great” schools, etc and a “world class education” from the public school system. I’m glad the 15,000 hrs children are away from their homes was brought up. The messages and phone calls I have received since 2020 is very sad pertaining to what parents are finding out from their children or faculty in our local public schools and libraries. I love being home with my family and so do my children. They can’t imagine being away from home as long as other children are. They often see the bus go by our home, and each time are grateful to be home. My oldest, most importantly, is grateful to be learning about God throughout his courses. He said it would be very difficult to learn in an environment w/o God in it. I could say more, but this is already pretty long.

@exploringtheologychannel1697

Жыл бұрын

Yes, why how many children walk with the Lord was not asked or answered is a shocking admission.

@joshuaclaibourn9847

Жыл бұрын

You are so right. Negative Exposure, especially Social, is incredibly damaging to children. When you send your kids to school, you increase the risk of that significantly. You have no clue as a parent what they experience through out the day with the interactions of other kids unless they tell you. My middle school years were terrible, and I was exposed to so many things at a premature age that I was not ready for. Don’t let people tell you they need social interaction from Public School to develop social skills. There are so many opportunities, you should be plugged into a church with other children and families, there are homeschool co-ops, homeschool sports and arts.

I appreciated this debate. I just hope that Jonathan Pennington takes this as an opportunity to learn his childrens’ ages 😂

This wasn't a debate at all. It was more of a dialogue; a conversation. No opening statements, no rebuttals, no cross examination, no closing statements.

Jen's take on extracurricular is interesting to me not because I disagree, but because I agree, however, she doesn't view the public education piece through the same lens.

No one answered or asked, "Where are your kids with the Lord now." What good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul? This idea in relation to your own kids is totally missing in this conversation and it's not a good thing. The proof is in the pudding folks, and the pudding is getting worse every passing year (more kids raised in the church and public school are walking away).

@blindspotmillennial9053

Жыл бұрын

Yes. What a huge miss. The POINT of education isn't primarily if they end up good at math. The point is to love the Lord with the heart, soul, and MIND!

Great debate, thanks!

Would love to see a good faith debate between 2 parents of elementary school aged children

This woman is making me NOT SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOL! Her stance is too "allow" my child exposed to violent children and those struggling academically! My son is slowed down daily by these children. I had to make a stance and put my child first.

Pretty impressive how Jen can have such thick blinders on. She made a whole lot of claims that were never supported (and are refutable): -That opposition to public schools is fear based (people aren't scared, they're trying to be biblically faithful) -That it's world class (in many jurisdictions, public schools perform worse than private, Christian, catholic or charter). -That public school incorporates kids with disabilities (so does private and Christian) -That you ought not make decisions that are beat for your family (because somehow that harms the greater good?) -That because people point out the evil and sin being promoted by the public system, that it's somehow an attack on individual Christian teachers in the public system (it's not). The public college education that is being taught to students who want to become teachers - has been almost entirely taken over influenced by critical theory over the last decade. So it's not surprising that the vast majority of public school educators are now pushing much of the woke nonsense in society and are full-time activists. Jen's kids are all adults now, so how is she so certain who district isn't corrupted? She also lives in a Conservative state, not indicative of the rest of the country or world. I'm not sure if this is an incredible naiveté or she's being submersive to advance more of a Marxist worldview.

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

It’s so obvious people like you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to “critical theory” “Marxism” and wokeness. The slightest study of history and conversation you have in public school debunks these conservative talking points that are fed to you.

@humz403

Жыл бұрын

@Rayd That's a whole lot of assertions. Care to justify any of them?

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

@@humz403 when critical theory is mentioned in a conservative talking point context, one usually just means Afro-American history. Unfortunately, as it seems for you, the mainstream history presented to affluent white Americans is very incomplete and focuses on one feeling good and patriotic, not objective to the messiness of human history. Learning about the difficult Afro-American history challenges people and I believe the real snowflakes in society are the ones that can’t face these truths. If racism is anything today, it’s thinking history is subservient to you at the expense of suppressing the stories of the less fortunate. I know so many public school teachers. And they certainly are not malicious like you think. They are quite smart, admirable, and humble for going into a job that’s so difficult and underpaid for what they do. I’d also be happy to discuss why you seem to mistake what Marxism is.

@humz403

Жыл бұрын

@Rayd That was one big strawman, your critiques are not my position.

@rayd9639

Жыл бұрын

@@humz403 I said “one usually means” to leave you room to not fit into this common idea. I’m glad you’re not falling for the common talking points and beliefs I went through then. So are you okay with public schools teaching history in a more inclusive way like telling the stories of Black Americans? Because when people like DeSantis speak about bad critical theory, they’re trying to tell you that learning more about Jim Crow, the blocking of reconstruction, black history in general is a threat to people’s lives. I’d also ask what you mean by critical theory?

Are they teaching our children creation, or a big bang/evolution/millions of years theory? Are they teaching our children that we come from monkeys or that we are created in God's image? What are the statistics of Christian families that send their children to public school, and the kids end up being God fearing, born again believers? Lots of great conversation here, but I cannot be convinced that Christians should send their children to public school.

She confessed he belief at the beginning. She believes in the public school ideal period. That's it. She doesn't believe in the biblical ideal.

This conversation was beautiful. The moderator asked amazing questions to facilitate a good faith discussion.

When I was 18 years old, my church experienced a shooting where my pastor was killed. I lived in a small community that was known as "safe." I mention this because I feel like a lot of my parents friends are choosing home school or private school for safety. I really appreciate what Jen said regarding this. You cannot control your kids safety. I WISH I could. I really appreciate this discussion and can see positives and negatives from both sides. Ultimately we are choosing public school for now. My husband and I are on the same page and feel confident about our decision.

@dmbsituation

Жыл бұрын

We homeschool our kids and my oldest is regularly confronted with social justice topics through church and interactions in her small group, which I’m thankful for. Our kids will be confronted with unrepentant sinners and loving people with truth is what we are called to do which isn’t safe in public schools.

@gokupepper

Жыл бұрын

You cannot control but you can mitigate

This may not have been Jen's intention, but she came across a bit aloof in her talking points: Jen mentioned the cost of Christian school as if it was selfish...we all make sacrifices for what we feel is important; why should we feel guilted over that, especially if we know our kids are receiving additional support in their faith (I understand not all Christian schools are walking in the biblical faith). Jen mentioned that we need to sacrifice for the community's greater good, not just looking at the interests of our own family. Her premise is flawed. My homeschooled kids can most certainly care for their community in multiple ways that do not necessarily include a public school education. We also had time to care for the needs of those in the Body (visiting seniors, hosting other families during regular school times or grocery shopping for someone in need). Jonathan made a great point in that being homeschooled you have flexibility for your kids to start working at a young age and learn extra skills. It is true that there is no ultimate "safe" place (expect for being in Jesus), but let's be honest, there is such a thing as safe and more safe. Why is it hard for Jen to concede that as loving, Christian parents, home is a safer place than a public school with a sexually driven agenda, severe mental illnesses and teachers/students being assaulted by weapons. I picked up on the fact that Jen was quite concerned about a "world class" education and what her kids have gone on to accomplish. However, she ended up conceding that there was a lot of wasted time. Instead of her just admitting it, she viewed it as "human nature study." Really? What was missing in this "debate" is an emphasis that we are called to raise children who do not have the same mindset as this world (i.e.: worldly success and accomplishments), but the focus is godly character so that we can be a testimony as we go out. We understand God is sovereign over all and He calls us each on a slightly different journey; Jen and her husband have every right and freedom before the Lord to have chosen a public school education. I felt her points of defending the public school were weak and she would have been better off to just say the public school is a dark place, but that they had complete peace and confidence that is where God wanted their kids.

Depends on which context of public schools we are talking about. Texas is different from Toronto! Highly post-Christian mixed with liberal ideologies mixed with activism and deviant sex Ed curriculum and mixed cultural and mixed family structural systems!

@StumblingThroughItAll

Жыл бұрын

We live in more of a politically progressive part of the country. Our own school district has very actively implemented a number of pretty radical policies/pedagogical approaches. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are teachers and administrators in the local public school system (both Christians and non-Christians) that have clearly communicated serious concerns about what is happening on-the-ground in our own local schools and that the environment is becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity as a whole. This includes very specific examples such as gender transitions (without parental knowledge) in 1st grade and an in-school drag queen story hour, during school hours, in a 4th grade classroom, to name a few.