I am from Nigeria, and i know first hand how Nigerian pastors and men of God use tithes to enrich themselves

@uchihadabba699

Жыл бұрын

Men of God?

@uchihadabba699

Жыл бұрын

What God?

@LoriMata-Rodriguez-zj3mh

4 ай бұрын

I thank you that you have not clung yourself to your Nigerian harritage as a defender of the Nigerian people but in fact the truth and defender of the faith of the true and living GOD

I cannot understand why the pastor on the left did not just fall on his knees and repent after hearing all this truth.

Thank you NOT ONE SINGLE THING TAUGHT BY THE CHURCH TODAY ON TITHING IS BIBLICAL THANK YOU SO MUCH IT IS WHAT MY HEART HAS TOLD ME FOR DECADES.

@eddya9770

Жыл бұрын

The heart is deceitful “

@lawrencem.1568

Жыл бұрын

My brother I agree with you

@legendaryangel1991

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you as well all these pastors want is your 10%

@rudolfberki8683

11 ай бұрын

No, not at all. All I was taught about the tithe by my church, (which I have deserted), was a lie; but I thank God for helping me understand the truth more fully. Another big lie I uncovered was the trinity, which is another false pagan doctrine. What a loving and caring God and Saviour we have. His kingdom come.

@ShooterReview

10 ай бұрын

​@rudolfberki8683 the Trinity doctrine is truth. I would refer you to Dr. James White and his biblical walk-through regarding the triune God.

In nigeria today many pastor has private jet and build schools but their poor member who contributed for such schools building couldn't afford to pay the schools fee .

@user-lv7mf4ge4v

4 ай бұрын

Woow 😂 its exactly the same over here (East Europe)

When you say “10%” you’re already into legalism. Christian Free-will giving doesn’t care about a fixed “10%”.

This was an excelleht debate. Br. Russell did an awesome job. He won on all points. Giving is between you and God. God loves a cheerful giver. He did not put a percentage on this in the new covenant. God's chosen people are not guided by the old testament laws / covenant but the new. Concerning the new covenant we are to give what God places in our hearts to give and give it cheerfully so that our sacrificial gift will be pleasing to God whatever the amount.

@eddya9770

Жыл бұрын

russell got 0 points he’s also spiritually blind

I love you Russel.... Thanks for quoting and explaining the Bible with courage. Thanks for also laying emphasis on the church teaching soul winning and evangelism and how it makes the people of God give sacrificially to the advancement of God's kingdom. May God richly bless you Russel

That presentation from the gentleman on the right ( white man) was very precise and in depth. I agree with him. Tithing was part of the law and we are not under the law. If you obey this part you should obey all.

@rudolfberki8683

11 ай бұрын

Absolutely!

@AndrewsTitheReview

Ай бұрын

I interviewed Dr. Russell Kelly in person and he admitted that he has no evidence for many of his claims.

I admit I didn't watch the debate because I already have the teaching. It's good to see that more and more people are waking up and are getting and receiving biblical teaching oon tithing. Some points I would like to make. 1. We are not required to tithe; this is not the same as saying, we are not required to give. We are required to give - cheerfully, not our of necessity, not grudgingly, and with a cheerful heart. 2. You should purpose in your heart what you will give. 3. Give to the poor saints (think about that one - orphans, widows, and whoever among you are poor). Give to the advancement of the Gospel and give to those who labour over you. 4. All giving is voluntary (see Point No. 1). Oh, did you say Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizadek? Look again - it was not under obligation, but voluntarily. Question: Given that tithing is a major issue for Christians, why isn't tithing a major thesis in any bible seminary??? Answer: Because through careful study of God's Word, and proper application of hermenuetics, it would quickly be discovered that tithing is not a requirement in the New Testament Church and covenant. (Again, not saying we shouldn't give) Finally - Ask God about your giving and ensure that mamon is not your God. Oh yes, prepare to be led by the Holy Spirit. Bless you all.

@TJ-fr8xl

3 жыл бұрын

Give, and it will come back to you. Good measure, press down, shaken together, and running over shall MEN (mankind, human beings) give unto your bosom.

@decathlonevent

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, Abraham, had to give 10℅ of the spoils of war to Melchizedek, as he, as a nomad, came under jurisdiction, of whatever province, nomadic tribes settle. So, it was obligatory.

@pyuille

Жыл бұрын

wonderfully put. i have observed proper biblical hermeneutic is thrown out the door when this topic pops up. I wonder why

@eddya9770

Жыл бұрын

I asked God and he told me to tithe 😑

@rudolfberki8683

11 ай бұрын

I can only say, Amen! to that.

Im so happy I found this video again. Thank God! I watched it 10 years ago and then couldn't find it again. Bless you all!

@Keepitoriginalministry

Жыл бұрын

😂me too

Excellent debate! Dr. Russell brought the word and broke that thang down!

Why is this video not getting many views? Dr Kelly is doing God’s work.

thank God we have Russell Earl Kelly.

Mr Russel looks like honest brother & knowledgeable on God’s Word!!!😇

that woman who poured perfume gave on free will. she followed her heart. It was free will offering and not forced giving.

@eddya9770

Жыл бұрын

Tithing is also free will giving. God gave us the right to choose

@timsatterfield6303

Жыл бұрын

We do not even have the ability to tithe. We can give 10% if we want...but it is not a tithe. It would be like a man trying to convince you that he is a woman.

@timsatterfield9752

Жыл бұрын

@@eddya9770 With the way government abuses our money, why would you want to give them a dime?

@eddya9770

Жыл бұрын

@@timsatterfield9752 That’s the point you have no choice to pay your taxes. and u think churches can survive on free will givin lol

@timsatterfield9752

Жыл бұрын

@@eddya9770 I know they can.

tithing was FOOD not Money!

It is not our job to get anyone to a "sacrificial place of giving" as the pro-tither suggests. we are not God. The Bible clearly states, each individual is responsible for working our their own soul salvation. Why stress about it at all? God is peace, this is crazy. Mr. Kelly is on point. We are liberated!

why does the preacher always have food and the sheep are hungry

@TheJCFan

4 жыл бұрын

Or a private jet, while some of his members are losing their houses

Jesus and the apostles never teach about tithing.

@TJ-fr8xl

3 жыл бұрын

This has been on my heart for the last 6 months!!

Im a giver in all areas without tithing and GOD gives in return always

The black guy is very charismatic..he’s faith is the faith movement

Some churches put more emphasis on tithing than any other topics. It's shameful!

@sandraclark2922

8 жыл бұрын

+Rainy Hollowell Again, I agree. In a recent conversation with a friend from a church I just recently started attending, she admitted that the preacher has been harping on this topic almost every Sunday for more than a YEAR! It is a huge turn-off to newcomers especially when the pastors spends 5 full minutes before the offering as he twists Malachi 3 to manipulate folks into tithing out of guilt and fear. That verse was addressed to greedy thieving Levitical priests. Not the congregation. Shame on every preacher who twists Scripture for their own ends!

@rainyhollowell2280

8 жыл бұрын

Absolutely Sandra!!

@Solideogloria00

5 жыл бұрын

it's sad, but it's true. May the Lord bring a new revival to the church.

@rustystevenslee714

5 жыл бұрын

Emphasis is the word they put too much on tithing and teach others .. theres nothing wrong with tithing but people make a compulsory law that everyone has to tithe .. same to people say that people shouldn't tithe .. so they teach others not to tithe .. tithing doesn't bring righteous .. its something that we do personally from our heart .. its freely give .. its not that we should compulsory give and its not that we do not give .. i liken tithing to communion if u wanna take communion u can . but u don't have to take communion .. same as everything else .. like baptism .. or a Sabbath day .. or speaking in tongues .. all these things don't bring righteous or a bring a right standing with God by us doing it .. its just these things are personally installed in us as we live for him .. they are not all compulsory .. we can't join the message of the cross to these works that we do .. so im saying be free to give of ourselves .. and even if we decide to give money .. do it in secret. . Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing ..😉

@thetruthshallmakeyoufree6122

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZZ9qp8N9lLSwkrw.html

Great!! Biblically sound argument from Dr Russell. It takes courage to debunk such practices that are held above criticism "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" 1Thess 5:21

When i saw proof THEY HAD MONEY IN GENESIS!!! the debate was over for me! hahaha GENESIS 47:14 Tithing is not scriptural pastor!

Kelly has a clear understanding of scriptures. I wish more pastors did.

@katherinewilliams1875

4 жыл бұрын

Me too. My church has tithes on the envelopes for giving but they don’t teach about Tithing. I feel like I’m being lied to by my church. They say “tithesandoffering” like it’s one word. They also do a monthly collection for the needy in our church. We have a full time pastor and all members vote on purchases and are given a chance to express concerns about spending. I wish they would address tithing. I don’t tithe to my church.

@melindamacionwolf6205

3 жыл бұрын

Execk 34 Shepards feeding upon the sheep

@melindamacionwolf6205

3 жыл бұрын

X SDA. now Baptist Zeck 14 Feast of Tabernacles 3x HIS high Annual Sabbaths ( both weekly and Annual)

@melindamacionwolf6205

3 жыл бұрын

Zeck 14 NO more Canninite ( Kjv) Not trader/merchant person) But pagan traditions Sun worship day Xmas etc)

@melindamacionwolf6205

3 жыл бұрын

Abraham paid back after ( not before) he did what he was told to do and after he prospered to Melziadec the person that had told him

Clear as Crystal! thank you for this wonderful explanation the truth shall set you free.

Im in the side and i believe of brother russel he is telling what is clearly about we do not need to tithes anymore we must Give cheerfully and according to our heart says

the Jews taught me the truth about tithing when I stop I was blessed more financially. The African pastor is using manipulation of scriptures and play on words

@LuisRamirez-cl5en

2 жыл бұрын

@Evelyn Choy you obviously haven't study the bible

@skobodabaws8946

2 жыл бұрын

He is just hungry that one n doesn't know the Bible!

@rubypayne7416

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I as well stopped tithing and was blessed . When I was in the church tithing I was always broke.

@eddiedebartalo5985

2 жыл бұрын

@@skobodabaws8946 lol😂

Russell Earl Kelly is spot on tithing to pastors. Yahweh loves a shearful giving heart . Yes we can give to our churches to support its wrk but it has to be what each one of us can afford or what one is willing to give. Tithing was for the levitical priesthood, the poor, the widow and the orphans. Levitical priesthood is no more it was done away by Yahshua. Pastors of today are not of levitical priesthood. How can the pastors of today demand that we must pay tithes to them. That's first class form of robbery without violence. Russel Kelly is right.

This “preacher” said the word principle so many times that I never want to hear it again. Everything people want to take out of the Bible to justify for doing gets called a principle, because then (in their mind) it’s not intertwined with the law so it can’t be used to manipulate people.

This debate even though is 10 years old, was very good. In the words of R. L. Solberg, "Permitted, but not required!"

I feel that God wants us to let the Spirit of God to lead us in our giving.

@ricrori32

2 жыл бұрын

It's the word of God, 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Remember this-a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop 7. You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8. And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9. As the Scriptures say,.

Russell Earl Kelly Told it like it is

the black "pope guy" because i doubt he is a true christian is using the bible in such a twisted way is a total shame.

Great debate.to God be all the glory.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

It is interesting how many pastors condemn the commandments from the old testament except for tithings. If we are to keep up tithings then they should realize that the apostles were keeping the law even after Christ died.

@ivanbunch1216

8 жыл бұрын

+Juliet Grant amen sister

@shellyblanchard5788

5 жыл бұрын

@@ivanbunch1216 No they did not. If you are talking about the moral they did , but other laws,because in Acts 15 they wondered they were to put a yoke on the neck of people that even their fathers couldn't bear.

@RaiderRSupastar

5 жыл бұрын

Truth.

@Testifydesignfactory

3 жыл бұрын

Your statement is stiaght ignorant to say that the apostles were under the Law...that would nulify Christ death on the Cross... they were under grace. Have you even experienced the New Birth accordin to John3:3? For it is the Holy Spirit who reveals all truth unto the children of God. The false prophet from Nigeria is a crook and does not represent the Holy Christ from Israel. The Caucasians brother destroyed his philosophy and doctrine of demons! The very few scriptures that he did reference provided abosultely no support to his lies from hell.

@forerunner7

2 жыл бұрын

Thats is a good point about the apostles.. Pastors want to cherry pick.

I can't recommend highly enough the book by Russell Earl Kelly entitled: *"Should the Church Teach Tithing."* An absolutely outstanding book covering all aspects of Old and New Testament tithing and giving principles.

Hello Thank you for this video

Its hard for pastors who have believed in the tithe doctrine to change their thinking if they themselves have been taught it as a principle. So when they get their own church to oversee they are faced with a dilemma; if they don't keep preaching the tithe then the funds will diminish, but if they teach that you don't 'have' to tithe then the peoples faith can be affected and it can result in a church split and great confusion amongst that congregation. That is why pastors take the easy option and just keep saying the tithe thing - everyone is happy, the money is coming in and everyone feels like they are doing the right thing. The truth is there is no tithing for the Christian believer!

@sandraclark2922

8 жыл бұрын

+Gilbert9909 This is true. And for that reason, pastors should not be dependent on financial support from the congregation. When a pastors is independently earning money and just preaches and/or pastors part-time, he can preach the pure undiluted Gospel without worrying about any financial fallout on his family. The congregation, on the other hand can up and leave at any time if they don't like what he is preaching (if they are wrong or if he is wrong). There is no financial influence on what the preacher preaches.

@Gilbert9909

8 жыл бұрын

Sandra Clark Hi Sandra, Yes in the ideal situation financial independence is great. It's the same for us as individuals, we suffer and compromise all the time because we don't want to loose our jobs! And even when we own our own companies we are at the mercy of the customers and funders!! Ahh Oh Lord what did you really mean when you said he who the Son sets free is FREE indeed?

@sandraclark2922

8 жыл бұрын

+Gilbert9909 Yes, being self employed is the best situation and while it's easy to say that is too idealistic, I think the real problem is that in this world we have gotten fed a line of BS that says we must get good grades in school, then work our way up the corporate ladder. BS. I don't recall examples in the Bible of anyone great working as an employee for unbelievers...exceptions such as Joseph notwithstanding...And as for being at the "mercy" of customers...I would much much MUCH prefer being at the mercy (it isn't actually mercy, it's need or desire) of the market than having the government tell me what I can or can't buy or sell and regulating every detail of my business and life, such as most nations (socialism) have done, and is fast becoming the norm here in America.

@Gilbert9909

8 жыл бұрын

Ok, Yes globalization and big take overs seems to be the continuing trend. I live in England, Kent and often see all these doom and gloom videos about the US and end times etc. I hope the best for us all, God bless you and your family.

@sandraclark2922

3 жыл бұрын

@Evelyn Choy Evelyn I read what you said and I see where your coming from, but the fact is that Paul was a tent maker who supported himself. I don't believe that you have to study any foreign languages to understand The Bible. The Bible is pretty plain spoken and easy to understand. Your view is very similar to what used to be before the reformation which was : nobody could understand the Bible except for the Catholic priests and everybody else just had to take the Catholic priest's words as to what it said. Thats a bunch of garbage; the person on the street who can read English can read The Bible And understand it. We do not need a hierarchy of full time paid church people. When America was being settled the pioneers did not take a paid preacher with them. They just took their Bible. They had circuit riding preachers. And as for your statement about powerless churches without miracles I would say that's because you are not attending a spirit filled church. When I go to churches where the preacher and the majority of the people are spirit filled I do see miracles And prayers answered. I used to go to a dead church (lutheran, Baptist, and later, nondenominational)where I don't believe the pastor was even saved and that's probably the crux of your problem right now.

Dr. Kelly nailed it. Awesome exergesis of Scripture with him.

R.I.P. brother Doug Harris

The black Preacher is so wrong that I CAN NOT hear anymore, what a pain!!

@albertpetrusmodoh3543

6 жыл бұрын

He is so right, I like his teaching, it is correct!

@Solideogloria00

5 жыл бұрын

king 2769 do you want to be faithful to God's word and the real meaning of tithing? or you wanna stick to the unbiblical tradition that the tithe is money given to the church? which is New and not honoring God.

@bownoworbowlater8870

5 жыл бұрын

I'm a Black preacher, and I totally agree, based on scripture.

@lizzybold4056

5 жыл бұрын

Black preachers enjoys taking tithe from people, so they don't want it to stop.

@jayaustin1939

5 жыл бұрын

Yet people were clapping. Strange.

I have the same questions for 3 years until the Holly Spirit brought discernment to my spirit on regards to this, ask the Holly spirit for guidance about it, read the word of God I promise you this you WILL definitely get your best answer there. God Bless you !

incredibly amazing teaching by these phenomenon individuals I love it. I think more of these should be done continually and Pastor Mike Kola Ewousho I salute you for your obedience in faith and like you said the error in the teachings of tithing has made you think right and I love for that.

Big thumbs up to brother Russel he explained it really well I agree with everything he explained, Tithing is strictly voluntary no where in the New Testament neither in the book of acts or any of the epistles did the apostles mandate tithing it was all voluntary freewill offerings, the other gentleman refers to Abraham, let’s remember Abraham gave 10% from the spoils of war which was strictly voluntary the Bible says Abraham gave from the spoils of war only once we cannot take scripture out of context to demand money from church members I was visiting a church on a Sunday in which the pastor from the pulpit called out a church member the pastor said he was robbing God because he didn’t tithe, the pastor said he was cursed the pastor then had that person thrown out of the church, does the behavior of this pastor pleases God? I immediately got up and ran out of that place because all they were interested is in the 10% of all your earnings! These pastors tell church goers that God will curse those who do not tithe that God will curse their children. Many won’t come to Christ because of these tithing mandates, They also celebrate the feast of the first fruits demanding your first salary of the year as a first fruit offering, celebrating old covenant feasts. The following is what the apostles taught in their meetings; they also helped out those in need. 2 Corinthians 9:7, ESV: Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7, KJV: Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 1 Corinthians 16:1, KJV: Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 1 Corinthians 16:1, NASB: Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you are to do as well. James 1:27, NIV: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Acts 20:33 I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold or clothing. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. 35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”.

2 Corinthians 9:7 As every man purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly or out of compulsion; for God loveth the cheerful giver. We, as the New Covenant Church, are to give free will offerings.

Thanks so much for good debating, I learned that love is most important cause if tithing is law love cover it

Pastor Russell Earl Kelly knows the bible..the other pastor Mike Kola from africa is preaching tithing because he wants to be sure money keeps flowing in his church..but he doesnt back his preaching up with scripture

@yehoshuaismysaviour357

5 жыл бұрын

Africans do not practice true christianity, what THEY practice is Paganism

@lizzybold4056

5 жыл бұрын

You're right.@Vincent.

@paulboluwaji

4 жыл бұрын

@@yehoshuaismysaviour357 For real? Do you really mean what you said?

I find Dr Kelly's arguments more convincing than Rev Mike Kola Ewuosho.

@ibramsaleeb9705

10 жыл бұрын

I disagree, Dr Kelly's arguments are full of self contradictions disguised as coherent by following then up with eloquent but poor interpretations of scripture. they are also ad hoc and inconsistent with several red herrings, he never really seems to have a firm understanding of where he himself stands on the matter only that he doesn't like tithing. Rev Mike knows where he stands and understands what that position is and gives arguments that don't appeal to or are based on individual situations. Both terribly paraphrase scripture.

@kpirron7635

10 жыл бұрын

ibram saleeb Your comment would be helpful if you explained at least one of your criticisms. I.e. - one of the "red herrings" or one of his "eloquent but poor interpretations of scripture." Kelly goes on and on during this debate with Biblical examples of why tithing was an OT law and was part of the obligations of the old priesthood, which ended with the New Covenant, yet you state he "never really seems to have a firm understanding of where he himself stands on the matter." Also, Kelly has written a whole exposition on this subject and references comprehensive studies from the NT and OT but you don't actually cite any of his specific arguments stated during this video which you disagree with - except to say he doesn't have a firm understanding.

right or wrong! put it this way, without it, they cant live like rock stars :)

Hebrews 7:18 says that the Levitical priesthood was cancelled so was their regulations. Tithing was included in that. Abraham tithed once, and Levi was in him; so it was a first and last tithed. Under the Old Testament men that died received tithes because they needed it to exist! But Melchizedek doesn't need to be continually tithed because Jesus lives forever

@stainlessz5414

5 жыл бұрын

Excellent. Wonderful comment

@amyturner4562

Жыл бұрын

“Levi was in him, so it was a first and last…” Could you pretty please elaborate on this for me? I find your entire comment very thought provoking, but this particular sentence I do not understand…I’m dying to know what you are trying to say on that one! Sorry--I know it’s been 8 years ago! 😂

@AndrewsTitheReview

Жыл бұрын

@@amyturner4562 Hebrews 7:9-10 says that even the Levites paid tithe through Abraham but if what people today say about tithe is true then this Scripture is an error and the Holy Spirit is wrong to inspire the writer to say this. If the tithe was holy to the Lord under Mosaic law and only for the circumcised Jews then it is impossible to claim that this tithe to the Levites could be given outside their priesthood through the uncircumcised Abraham to Melchizedek who was not a Levite. This only makes sense if the tithes both before and after Moses are of he same nature. This is why people who argue against tithing never explain Hebrews 7:-9-10. I contacted Dr. Russell Kelly who admitted to me that he was unable to provide an answer to this. As to Hebrews 7:18 and 7:12 the annulling of the law the author explains in verses 11, 13, 14 and the law specified that priests were to come from another tribe.

Dr Kelly made biblical proof. It’s hard to receive a person who has the word in front of his face, but allows pride to keep the tradition of men.

Good scriptural statement, finally someone that uses the common sense that God gave them. The bible says to prove all things or test if you like, nevertheless people just always take the word of a man as gospel. The bible says that no one will have to teach us because the Holy Spirit will teach us.

Again, the Church is not a building or a name across the door, it's people, anywhere they are at.

@shinejr2876

5 ай бұрын

You are the church

The principle is not tithing, giving of the spoils or produce of the land. The principle is giving to God. Giving generously with joy and free of compulsion as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 7:9. Proverbs 11:24 also sheds light on how giving should be - not stingily, not overly extending onesself but comfortably. Giving is not only about money but our time, every area of our being.

1. Tithing under Mosaic law never involved money, only produce and livestock (items of the land). 2. There's evidence that the book of Malachi was entirely directed at the Levitical Priesthood. As such, it didn't apply to all of Isreal and doesn't apply to anyone today since the Levitical Priesthood is gone. 3. The only other tithe mentioned in the bible is that of Abraham which was a one-time event, was off spoils of war, involved exchange (of wine and bread) and he gave all of the spoils away, not just 10% of it. 4. Tithing under Mosaic law was compulsory and cannot be considered "giving" or an "act of faith". It was an act of compliance with the statute(s) or ordinance at the time and was more of a tax. 5. Mosiac law is now obsolete, as is the system of the atonement of that time, according to the Christian faith of the new covenant. There is no biblical promise for a blessing for giving money to a church (or anywhere else) or a curse for not doing so. However, there's biblical evidence that money was given to the temple and for ministries. It just had nothing to do with the tithe. In my opinion Dr Kelly's position prevailed in this debate.

You have to remember neither are saying don't give, they're just differing on the manner of giving, it's a shame it has become such a contentious issue

@pamelaclarkson6001

4 жыл бұрын

Simon Humphries well said it’s a waste of energy that could be spent on worship and the gospel witch is the central message of the bible , & more important, that been said brother, as a single parent( not by any fault of my own ) on very low income felt I couldn’t find a place to follow and worship the lord in within my area to enjoy sharing my faith with , needing the company and faith building& extra learning that comes as a bonus of fellowship, couldn’t belong to a church because I could barely manage on the little money I had to provide for myself and children , was made to feel shamed every week when the tithes and offerings where called and I could only put a small amount in even then that was a lot for me and was using the little we had for food , every week my cheeks would burn with shame , and I felt guilty stood worshiping the lord when everyone else had more than enough and the pastor would continue to preach on tithes most of the services and would drop in little comments about knowing who drops what in the tithes ??? , I was treated like a maid asked to baby sit for all others and to clean peoples houses for this money when I already had my hands more than full with the little job I already had and my children witch was a full time job in itself , I watched my pastor make a fool out of a couple that had written him a private letter that they couldn’t afford to pay tithes anymore due to bad circumstances & that they had studied scripture and realised they never needed to anyway , the pastor read this private letter out in front of everybody , and said that they where no longer welcome at this church & neither was anyone that didn’t tithe , I never returned after him saying that then later he wrote to me asking why had I turned my back on god ? I hadn’t , I just believed I wasn’t allowed to feel comfortable worshiping god whilst he stood in my way , so yes I totally get why some would want answers it was an horrible experience psychologically I felt I was robbing god for being poor when that’s not what god wanted nor what Jesus taught , it’s not fair x

@BlessedBlessedinHim

4 жыл бұрын

@@pamelaclarkson6001 so sorry this happened to you

we as the body are in need of healing just from our ordinary lives and it's this very subject that clarified to me how much more I need to be healed. a wrong perception,being a product of our environments is detramint to the believer.

"Peter the apostle had no money, why didn't he tithe to get more money. Why didnt he (Paul) teach poor people to tithe so that the curse of being poor could be broken". This is a rather interesting point one commenter made.

You must keep in mind, paul was from Benjamin. Which leaves to mean that he himself could not touch tithe according to the law. Jesus was outta Judah which moses spake nothing concerning the Altar( Hebrews 7:13). Who what when where and why are the questions that must be addressed!! I dont tithe. I give as the spirit leads. Ans some times I'm lead to spend it on me.

Quite intersting debate

HALLELUJAH...THANK YOU BROTHER RUSSELL... FOREVERMORE AMEN....WITHOUT TITHING THIS FALCE PASTORS ... WOULD NOT BE IN MINISTRY ANY LONGER.

Dr Russell Kelly overwhelmed the black pastor with his knowledge of the subject on tithing. Tithe teachers do not really have any weaponry to refute what God's Word says about the matter.

If I am a son of Abraham's Paul say in Galatians, then I, like Levi, have already paid my tithes while in Abraham's loins.

@regenheart9708

Жыл бұрын

Bingo!

Great debate! Im a non tither but they both have good and strong arguments.

@michaelmerck7576

2 жыл бұрын

The scriptures say otherwise

@timsatterfield6303

Жыл бұрын

Maybe they both meant well, but the black pastor spoke out of feelings, not out of the factual scripture. Would he take issue with a person that chose to give 5% of their income? I think he may...and he has no authority to do so.

Since Tithings is Food, and not money, how then can we Deceive others or find some excuses to Mis-interpret scriptures so as to justify our Con Game? Use the illustration as if tithing as a "Principle", may do the trick of deception.????

Mr.Russel did his homework. Great debate:-)

i was a disciplined tither, but after knowing what he is talking about in his argument i do agree and have repented of thinking it was a command from Christ to tithe or else. when Christ never gave such orders nor did His Apostles. they had every opportune to do so but didn't but only said to give what you could and from the heart. and by Giving to God we give to each other and outsiders.

Thank you very much Rev Mike Kola. God sees everything. Now I fully understand. Thank you for the principles of discipline and training. Sometimes not tithing is the escape goat of the Christians issues of the heart. Maybe they might think only Pastor can become rich. But when the Lord says, do everything 1 COr. 10:13. Give to the Lord without even thinking where it goes.

@Solideogloria00

Жыл бұрын

His teaching is unbiblical. Tithe isn’t for Christians

@naad1225

Жыл бұрын

Have you forgotten how you will be held accountable on how you managed the resources God gave you?How can you say give and dont think where it goes?Wow

When we are saved the Holt Spirit is dwelling in Us. it guides us, it teaches us

Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites, you give a tenth of your spices mint dill and cummin, but you have neglected the more important matters of the law, justice ,mercy and faithfulness. matthew23-23. Tithing was never preached by Jesus,in 3 years, here he shows how unimportant it is.

We are in Grace Age ..❤️.. and we are not under a law!

Open the windows of heaven was the rain for the crops

The sacrifice CHRIST made on the cross is not about law or principles. It's about the hearing of the voice of God in HIMSELF and by nature purely giving his all to conscientize us all to look , listen and feel in our hearts, mind and soul to respond to the GREATEST ACT OF LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER AND SPIRITUAL ENLITENEMENT IN THE LIFE HE HAS GIVEN US. This is LOVE that is given FREELY and WILLFULLY from the heart and devoid of LAW and PRINCIPLES !!!!!

I also believed that everything on this word and everything I posses has been giving to me by him, he is the rightful owner of all and its not a 10% of "my monies I give, but is more to me a 10% back to his cause of ALL he has shower me with, love, peace, happiness, faith,sense of purpose and direction, a heart free of envy, anxiety, depression, oppression, my healthy and great children, the comfort of my place, food, clothes, car, I see my self very fortunate thanks to his mercy and love!

@daneastill2058

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely right couldn't have said it better than myself

It’s so funny when people argue “jesus didn’t condemn tithing”. Well of course not! He hadn’t died and been resurrected yet. He can’t preach against the old covenant while preaching for the old covenant. Lol he hadn’t fulfilled the law so he couldn’t say anything against it. People also don’t understand that the Matthew 1:1 is not the start of the new covenant. New Testament and new covenant are different things.

@citizendc9

2 жыл бұрын

Please explain more.

@kennethfraire8152

2 жыл бұрын

@@citizendc9 new covenant started with Jesus’ communion. Old Mosaic Law/covenant was everything before that. The covenant (which tithing for THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL ONLY was included in that) is no more, and we are now under the new covenant. The word “giving” doesn’t have to mean money 100% of the time it’s mentioned. People can give of their time, their resources, talents they’re good at, etc. People say “Jesus condoned tithing in the New Testament, so it’s something we are commanded to do”. No it’s not. Robert Morris (Liar “Pastor” of gateway church) says something in a sermon where he asked God why he couldn’t have put the Malachi text into Matthew because it would then be in the New Testament and therefor easier for him to explain. Which means Robert Morris has NO proper understanding of even how the Bible is laid out. Just because the book of Matthew was in the New Testament, doesn’t mean it was new covenant. So mosaic law still applied where it applied. Jesus couldn’t come to earth and contradict God by telling people to live free under the new covenant when it hadnt been established yet. It’s not that difficult to understand. However, if you’re a manipulator and you lie about Gods word to gain anything, you are in sin and will be held accountable according to whatever standard God has. People like Robert Morris who teach tithing for today ARE LYING and should be questioned as to their qualifications to be a teacher of Gods word and have the authority of pastor. It’s sad how this has gotten this out of hand. The love of money is truly the root of all kinds of evil.

Russel earl Kelly praise God you are absolutely in truth!!!!

I have learnt that ‘you have to manipulate the scriptures in such a way, as to extract a particular Old Testament principle, converted it from what it was intended to be into something that it never was, and then superimpose it in a place it was never supposed to be.

lot of making stuff up from this black guy...he's not using scripture to make his point...he tried to say tithing is not part of the law...anything god ever commands or says to do/not do is part of the law, doesn't matter what it is...anything not of faith is sin...faith is trusting Christ and his finished work for salvation.

The words "tithe", "tithes" or "tithing" appear 40 times in the bible. Not once is the tithe ever money. Not once is the tithe ever on income (Jesus, a carpenter, and his disciples who were fishermen never paid tithes), and not once does it have anything to do with the church. There are four times as many scriptures in the New Testament on giving than there are on prayer, and so giving was an important part of early church living, as it should be today. But nowhere do we see the tithe as a principle of giving. We have to allow God to be the one to define what is the tithe, who pays it, who receives it, what is the storehouse. We cannot make up our own definition in order to support a man-made doctrine. This is what the tithe teachers have to do.

@jameswisdom1748

7 жыл бұрын

Petrus Britannicus - Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Jesus did tithed. Mar 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him. Question What things belong to God? Always read scriptures in context. Abraham tithe before the law.

@williamskipper739

7 жыл бұрын

The following are eight of the fifty versions of Proverbs 3:9, and Jesus said in Matthew 23:23,Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. KJ21 Honor the Lord with thy substance and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: The first-fruits of ALL thine INCREASE, the last time I looked, MONEY was/is declared an increase---the first-fruits, before you pay youer light bill, you give God back that what he demands of you, his people. If you are not, "his people" then this is not for you, but if you are his people, then the following is for you ASV Honor Jehovah with thy substance, And with the first-fruits of all thine increase: AMP Honor the Lord with your wealth And with the first fruits of all your crops (income); AMPC Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income; BRG Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: CEB Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the first of all your crops. CJB Honor Adonai with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your income. CEV Honor the Lord by giving him your money and the first part of all your crops.

@petrusbritannicus875

7 жыл бұрын

William skipper. Well, I don't think anyone would argue that Honouring the Lord with your substance is a good thing. I'm in agreement with that, and make that my aim. So I didn't really get your point here! And that has nothing to do with the modern false teaching known as "tithing". The last time I looked, money isn't and never has been "an increase". It is simply a means of exchanging goods and services. So for example, if you sold me a car, neither of us has made any increase; you've simply exchanged goods for it's value in money. But I'm very happy for you that you have plenty of mint anise and cummin in your garden. Personally I don't have anything in my garden yet but am about to plant some onions. If I know of someone who needs those onions more than I do, I'll very happily give them all away. But if not I certainly wont be taking 10% of them to Jerusalem and go looking for a Levite. And nor will I be letting any false tithe teacher lay any guilt trip on me if I fail to give 10% of them away. Oh, and didn't Jesus say that we should give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God the things that are God's (Luke 20:25)? Well, if I only have £200 and I have a light bill of £200, who does that £200 belong to, God or Caesar? I'm going to pay my light bill. I'm not going to say to Caesar, "Sorry, but I'm not going to pay you all that I owe you; I'm going to steal 10% of it to give to my God because my God is a thief.". I've known people who have had that attitude and then wondered why they were not blessed financially and couldn't pay their rent or bills.

@JoMellGroup

7 жыл бұрын

Abraham tithed only once before the law, the 90% left over he gave to the king of Sodom. None of his sons tithed, Joseph had an ideal position in Egypt, and he never taught tithe.

@Spaseebo

6 жыл бұрын

In the Bible, only Abraham, Israelites living under the Old Testament law, and the Pharisees tithed. Abraham tithed only ONCE in his entire life - that was on the spoils of war, NOT on his personal wealth or income. The Old Testament commanded Israelite ranchers and farmers to take 1/10th (one tenth) of their CROPS and LIVESTOCK to the Levites. They did NOT tithe on their money. TITHING TODAY is NOT biblical and the biblical tithes were NEVER given to local churches! The pastors who threaten people today with giving tithes to their churches are anathema. Please refer to these biblical passages: Leviticus 27:30-33 written for the priests in Israel, the tribe of Levi; clear instruction, referring to a tenth of the fruit of the trees, the flock of the herd, i.e. the agriculture, the animal husbandry; it's not talking about money. AND Numbers 18:21-24 the first tenth (10%) of the gross result ("income") of their efforts belong to the Levites; they were tithing to the government, to the nation of Israel. It was a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS: they were governed by the priesthood. The tithe was in fact a TAX for the national support of the government of the nation. AND Malachi 3:10 speaks of taking the tithes to the storehouse; that did NOT mean your local church, but a STOREHOUSE to maintain the livelihood of the ruling priests who formed the government. Deuteronomy 14:22-27 gives rules about a second (additional) tithing of the NET: it's not money but the "increase" in corn, wine, oil sheep, lambs, goats, cows; all to be laid aside to finance the individual in making three required trips a year to Jerusalem for religious festivals (holy days: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacle). Deuteronomy 14:28 contains a THIRD tithe made every three years, to go to support the welfare system of Israel, i.e. widows, orphans and needy. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4utkrmvXaTdZLg.html Thank you for reading this.

God of the old is the same as the God of the new testament! awsome!!!! God bless Rev. Mike

@michaelmerck7576

2 жыл бұрын

Yes but his covenant changed and the new one is in force

My former Church here in the Philippines teached that aside from tithe you have to also give offering. Tithe is compulsary 10% but for offering you decided the amount but mostly they expect for you to also give atleast 10%. I am thankful to God that I manage to get far away from them since they guilt trip you if you are not giving. They monitor your giving thru envelope with your name on it. Since I gave without putting the money in the red envelope, I got called out for by the Pastor saying I am not giving tithe and offering. And the woman pastor also said I am immature on my faith bec. I did not tithe. I didnt argue that I dont put my money on envelope but just put in on the basket barehandedly. I let God decide if I gave based on his desire and not the Pastor.

I believe tithe teaching is another reason why the 'corporate' continues to decline. The current corporation church is no where to be found in scripture.

African Brother is a typical RHEMA WOF Prosperity shyster. He spends his whole time with conjecture, speculation and presumption. I love how the moderator keeps busting his bubble when he tries to turn the debate into a sermon.

I give because I love.

thanks

Why do Pastor's keep accumulating tithe without spending for the food and shelter of poor people

@chesterjade7630

Жыл бұрын

WHAT

I detest the emotional and sloppy way that the dark preacher mishandles the Bible. You can show how much you trust and love God by how much money you give to church? That is emotional pressuring to tithe so that mr pastor does not have look for a job outside of church. The housechurch does away with this evil. Money is meant to be given in secret to help others in need.

The question on whether or not tithing is required is settled. Hebrews 7:5 &12 says this: "'And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." Now, even further, here is what the New testament says on what she ARE to do. 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 says "'Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem." Now, who in your churches are sending them to Jerusalem? I bet nobody is. 2 Corinthians (:6-9 says "'But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. As it is written: “He has dispersed abroad, He has given to the poor; His righteousness endures forever." This gives us the blueprint of how we are to give today. there's no requirement to tithe.

@tiffany3319

12 күн бұрын

Preach Kelly!

Guilt for not keeping a law we aren't supposed to keep 😢. Jesus became the Curse for us ~Galatians 3. You can't keep the other 600+ laws either. Give your best gift 2 Corinthians 9.

I was a "tither" for years. I still believe in giving, but I do not believe God sets a standard for all to give a tithe. One lady in the audience called tithing a spiritual discipline, etc. The problem with this outlook is that the focus is on you and me, and not on the Lord. Once again, we should give, absolutely, but to put the bondage of O.T. living and giving, just is not a good thing. If this be the case, then the ministers today should not own homes, etc. as the Levites in the O.T. could not own property. See we can't be picking and choosing scripture to appease our "modern" gospel. Please give, and give according to what is in your heart as this is what will please God. Do pray if you don't know what to give because His Holy Spirit will guide you. But as far as the teaching of the tithe, anyone who practices tithing because they are ignorant of truth, I believe God has patience with these people as they probably (or hopefully) are giving out of a sincere heart. I can only say that hopefully they are giving to ministers who are teaching sound doctrine and teaching that "godliness with contentment is great gain." I Timothy 6:6

@jbutler2005

10 жыл бұрын

It is my honest opinion that they are giving for fear of hell or some other kind of eternal separation from the Divine. The idea that is expressed by these money grubbers is they are robbing God! How sickening and sad............

Dude on left at about 12:00.."Paul was never broke". Guess he never read this: "Philippians 4:12: “I know both HOW TO BE ABASED, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full AND TO BE HUNGRY, both to abound AND TO SUFFER NEED.” See also: 2 Corinthians 11:27

@sandraclark2922

8 жыл бұрын

+Jonathan Paul Peterson He was probably in Need when he was imprisoned. His wealth and bank account were not accessible then.

Rev.Mike was absolutely correct explaing his knowledge sbout tirhing!! Its a matter of faith and honoring God what we have.we give 10 percent we get the 90 perceny...

@firstbornjordan

Жыл бұрын

@gedion You don't get 90%. You pay for your shelter, your food and your utilities. A man has 4 children and earns $45,000 per year, tithes and pays his costs of living. Another man has 4 children and earns $900,000 per year, tithes and pays his costs of living. The first man has to decide to withdraw medical cover and cannot afford to buy a car, etc. The 2nd man pays his tithes, and after his bills, has $700,000 left over per year. The first man has $1,000 left over per year after all his costs are paid. Now, is the 2nd man justified if he spends $500,000 on his desires? After all he has tithed tight? Maybe we don't pick on the rich man and just conclude, like it was in the OT as well - not all Jews tithed, and therefore not all NT believers tithe. Justice, mercy and faith.

I think they are both very upstanding men of God. The devil wants to divide us. Why can't we "agree to disagree". It was a nice debate and both had some very good points. Now we need to just love one another as Jesus commanded. I would be proud to be a member of either one's church.

Great debate, Russell Earl Kelly ..worth listening to. The objective must be to do what God says not what men say to do. Romans 14:23 "everything that does not come from faith is sin" satan is the master deceiver and he masquerades as an angel of light, 2 Corinthians 11:14 to deceive for his own purpose. he is extremely strategic and is quite capable of imitating Gods Blessings to keep God children in confusion and bondage ... 1 Corinthians 14:33 - “For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches” ...Gina

Tithing is like throwing money in a river and waiting for it to come back around!

It sounds like all those who got rich, and all those who want to get rich, adhere to the idea and manipulative twistings of tithing... I'm African, I'm not rich, I'm not poor though I have no money or assets. If you want to tithe, you have to keep the entire Mosaic covenant, and good luck with that - you fail - that is why Jesus sacrificed himself, because we cannot. My Nigerian brother's arguments hold no ground. I whole-heartedly agree and understand that if you can give 50 or more, whatever, you should... Not necessarily to your pastor or church though...

If I gave God what He gave me,.. Poison.

its satanic to teach tithing...its sin to teach it... Gal_3:12 And the law is not of faith Rom_14:23 for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

@gidjeat

9 жыл бұрын

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. (‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭16, 18‬ NASB) There,Paul said it. Feel better twisted sister?