She never reported her daughter missing. That is a HUGE point.

@yourboymalikcoleman8731

Жыл бұрын

Right!!!!

@GeeSmith333

Жыл бұрын

She was strung out, her daughter wouldn't have even been a priority at that point.

@Rusty763

Жыл бұрын

She was on drugs, it kinda makes sense

@msmam72104

Жыл бұрын

FACTS 💯

@TheMegaultrachicken

Жыл бұрын

She thought she was dead

The fact that the bio mother didn’t seem to have reported her daughter as missing says a lot

@ThePrincessCH

Жыл бұрын

Where do they say that she didn't report it?

@bekah4137

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePrincessCH I didn’t say 100% that she didn’t but they didn’t say she did

@supershinigami1

Жыл бұрын

@@bekah4137 So just because they didn't say she did doesn't mean she didn't do it.

@bekah4137

Жыл бұрын

@@supershinigami1 It’s more weird that they didn’t say she reported it.

@virgie4715

Жыл бұрын

@@bekah4137 right. Like you’d think there would’ve been a whole scene about finding out she was reported missing

Kidnapping aside, I’m glad they took her. They saved her and possibly did better than the state was gonna do for her had they called Cps instead. And the mother understood too. I’m glad she’s gotten herself together and is willing to try

@jph2856

Жыл бұрын

Dream on.

@raellskys4083

Жыл бұрын

THIS IS A WRITTEN SCRIPT ! All these people doing like my mother does and debating it out it like it's real...its almost embarrassing for them

@Dragonraiser11

Жыл бұрын

Personally I agree with you. That baby was in a toxic relationship with her mother. The family had good intentions, but they just had poor actions.

@System_Spark

Жыл бұрын

@@raellskys4083 have you never had an ethical debate regarding fictional work? That was the entirety of middle school and high school English for most people I know. It’s okay to discuss ethics based on works of fiction.

@cynthiamartinez8994

Жыл бұрын

Maybe even let the other parents adopt her and visit here n there

I thought this was gonna be bad. Not really. If you were gonna leave your kid outside for hours and hours while you got strung out on drugs then you shouldn't be a parent.

@havok9001

Жыл бұрын

i say the 2 who taken her are true parents no matter they kidnapped her or not they the one save her life & get her help that she needs if they lie but they had no other way if she mother die she be next so save one life for another

@xoangelicaf0523

Жыл бұрын

I agree in this case.

@havok9001

Жыл бұрын

@@xoangelicaf0523 on what part??

@hibarikyoya854

Жыл бұрын

@@havok9001 but the mother got cleaned you can make the argument she got cleaned BECAUSE of the kidnapping but they should've called cps from the beginning

@havok9001

Жыл бұрын

@@hibarikyoya854 u got to ask urself when she got clean is it after her kid gone missing by getting kidnapped or dead cuz that woman dont know unit years later

I don’t see this as kidnapping, this is rescuing. They are heroes

@hydrokineticpowerhouse

Жыл бұрын

Pretty stupid though. They could’ve done this legally. It’s a long infuriating process but better than being in jail.

@gigicole6090

Жыл бұрын

the thing is, peoples standards are different and so if you use that terminology it could be broadly interpreted. someone could just kidnap and use that as their defense... that is not right

@Msladyrae92

Жыл бұрын

They could have reported the conditions then petitioned to be temp custodians. Two wrongs don’t make a right

@123RADIOactive

Жыл бұрын

While it may seem like they’re good people, but it doesn’t matter, they still ended up doing something completely illegal and they’re just deep down afraid they’ll get caught. If they weren’t afraid, they would’ve admitted it to the cops and dealt with this legally in the first place and filed to take her in if possible. That would’ve been the actual proper way to deal with this.

@oihcam22

Жыл бұрын

@@123RADIOactive illegal does not equal bad, legal does not equal good

The biological mom wanting to thank the parents who raised her child shows that she understood the reasning and most importantly was happy and relieved that someone cared so much for her infant to save her and give her a loving home

@JA268

Жыл бұрын

And did she? I never watch this series; I just watched this out of curiosity.

@jayleighbear

2 ай бұрын

im not sure about the legality but i wonder if the mom testifying on the couples side could help the situation at all. sometimes even if a crime is committed, if it goes to trial a jury would likely be willing to side with the defendant if even the bio mom is saying she’s glad it happened

@amberaishaa

Ай бұрын

and didn’t get paid for it from the state

@gregoryborton6598

16 күн бұрын

@@jayleighbear I could totally see a case like this being found guilty but with *far* reduced sentencing - no prison time, just probation and a fine for example, or an absolute discharge (where there is a finding of guilt, but no punishment at all). Especially when both the victim and mother of the victim have no ill will towards the "kidnappers". I don't even think a jury would be needed, any sane judge would see that this was a "crime", but one that arguably saved human suffering, rather than caused it. And to further note, the fact the mother never reported the child missing would be a major benefit to their case. On the other hand, the fact they didn't notify the relevant authorities like CPS would play against them.

I think it’s nice that the biological mother realized that the couple saved her child’s life and didn’t go on a self-entitled and selfish rant about taking her daughter. Though, I would understand if she still felt that way, as long as she still realizes that the final product was the salvage of her daughter’s life. Still, I hope they decide on having a shared custody situation. She should still have a chance of building that relationship if that’s what they all agree on.

@terezasmatanova8812

Жыл бұрын

I do not think it should be shared custody situation. The "kidnapers" should be her adoptive parents and her biological mom should be able to be present in her life, if the girl wants that. There is absolutely no reason for shared custudy. Legally it is ofc much more difficult, but moraly this is how it should be imo.

@morgancole8539

Жыл бұрын

I think that given their ages and ethnicity and the way the adoption and foster care system was (still pretty much is) for black kids they did do what they thought was right by making sure the mom was clean and sober before possibly reuniting them again. If they went the legal route CPS would take the child put them in the system and it could take months maybe years to get her back and that’s not a risk they were willing to take given the horror stories that have been told about the abusive/neglectful foster care system that could happen.

@benrussell-gough1201

Жыл бұрын

I got the impression that she'll probably tell the DA that she doesn't want to press charges and will even offer to speak for the Defence. All told, the DA will figure out some slap on the wrist - community service or something.

@Iamsickofts

Жыл бұрын

@@terezasmatanova8812 I’m sorry but that’s entitlement. The same women who left her child outside for hours to be on drugs isn’t allowed to Walk in that girls life whenever she wants because she’s the bio mom.

@farhiyo222

Жыл бұрын

The kidnappers should be in prison and they do not deserve to have any kind of relationship with the victim. What her mother was doing was abusive however this could of been dealt with using the courts if they called child protective services on the bio mum. She would of been forced to get of drugs or lose custody of her child. What the kidnappers did was add to a child's trauma by making her believe that they were her parents and then focusing her to defend their abusive behaviour due to the connection they have with her. This is stockholm syndrome.

When the bio mom wanted to thank the couple that took Gabby, it gave me chills

@sassbrat

Жыл бұрын

Same. Bio Mom knew that she had messed up in the past when Gabby was a baby and could have killed her daughter. Now the mom is gonna have a tough time accepting that Gabby will never see her as her mother and the one that took away her parents which in all fairness may be cruel but true. Bio Mom may have given birth to her but she did not raise her.

@MsTinkerbelle87

Жыл бұрын

Tears! I wasn’t expecting that ending!!!

@tracyleesmith781

Жыл бұрын

That's very powerful. The power of love & forgiveness.

@hannahdyson7129

2 ай бұрын

She doesn't deserve to be a part of that girls life .I hope she wasn't

Wow. This one hurt. I was abandoned in Vietnam by my mother, found by a stranger who brought me to the closet orphanage and was eventually adopted by my parents and got to grow up in a wealthy community in Connecticut. I’m sure if my mother could meet my parents she’d thank them as well.

@marshmallow7640

Жыл бұрын

I was fostered for three years by a Vietnamese family, I miss them so much, I'm sad I got taken away from them. I'm glad you were able to be adopted :) 🇻🇳

@claucemicro1080

Жыл бұрын

The fact that she had you means she somehow cared because she didn’t end her pregnancy. God knows the situation she was in. Thankfully you were adopted by a family that kept you. 🙌🏼

@emmaria_jaja4510

Жыл бұрын

Maybe she didn't leave you on purpose. Mayne she's didn't abandoned you

@ButtonsCasey

Жыл бұрын

@@emmaria_jaja4510 Or maybe she didn't do it out if her own free will. America is going to be seeing a lot of that happening soon.

@emmaria_jaja4510

Жыл бұрын

@@ButtonsCasey it's what I'm trying to say sorry English is not my mother tongue🙈

I wouldn’t view this as kidnapping, it was literally the moral thing to do. That child would have died without them, they didn’t ask for money when raising her. I’ve heard stories of children being locked in cages, starved, and neglected. I hope the parents might find some way to get that charge dropped. (Ik it’s not real but damn does this tug at the heart strings) Edit: I mean kidnapping not in the eyes of the law. But in a moral standpoint.

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

It's STILL kidnapping regardless of whatever moral stigma you attach to the word.

@saucyben4175

Жыл бұрын

It was still the right thing to do.

@SiggyMX

Жыл бұрын

@@rsrt6910 nah its not that simple. The DA would definitely drop charges after seeing the whole context. Lawyer here.

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

We have Soros appointed DA's in the major cities in the US now who jump at the chance to convict people who are trying to do the right thing just to "send a message". Those two raised a well adjusted and law abiding daughter, no DA in Chicago is going to let THAT go unpunished!

@adylaar6708

Жыл бұрын

While i agree it was a good thing what they did to this kid , some kidnappers don't want money or anything but just want a child. Theyd firmly declare the kidnapped kid is theirs. Usually theyre unable to have bio kid or have lost a kid in traumatic experience. So saying not asking for ransom or not abusing the kid means not kidnapping is wrong statement. More people like these partners are needes in this world.

I see no bad people here. The "kidnappers" were kind to take a child in, the bio mother cleaned her act and was not angry at them, but thankful for saving her child's life.

@AJ-TheGr8

Жыл бұрын

Too bad the law is flawed.

@geesegoose6174

Жыл бұрын

@@AJ-TheGr8 I don't believe it would be in this case. More than likely, WAY more than likely, the caretakers will get adoption papers from the bio mother to sign over custody so they really did nothing wrong. She even wanted to thank them and that tells you she would work it out instead of put them behind bars. They were a beautiful people that did a beautiful thing. Probably took the mom a few days to even realize her baby was missing considering she didn't go looking or report her missing.

@joshuahudson2170

Жыл бұрын

@@AJ-TheGr8 I wonder what would happen before a jury, with the bio mother arguing they did the right thing.

@eileensnow6153

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the mercy you gave the bio mom. Most of the comments are quick to condemn her, without seeming to understand the importance of her wanting to thank the “kidnappers”. She was grateful that her baby was alive and well looked after. That already makes her a better mother than a lot of mothers I know, who use their children for their own benefit instead of caring about the child’s well-being.

@dayanerafleets6278

Жыл бұрын

@@geesegoose6174 this has actually happened in real life tho. Carolina white was stolen from a hospital at birth by a nurse and was raised for 19 years in a happy healthy household. She had no idea she was stolen until applying for college when she didn't have a s.s card or birth certificate. Her "mom" ended up getting sentenced to like 20 years for kidnapping even tho she was a good parent

When she kept saying “I’m sorry, I’m sorry” I wanted to reach through the phone and hug this angel. She didn’t do this out of malice or from a woman who was a great mom and loved her kids, they weren’t “kidnappers” they saw a beautiful infant and they rescued her and gave her a wonderful life and an infinite amount of love. If they wouldn’t have rescued her, that little girl would have been physically, mentally, and emotionally abused. I mean she saved her daughters life, she was always meant to be their daughter.

@TheYasmineFlower

Жыл бұрын

You know how you rescue a child who is being harmed? You call the cops or CPS. You do not kidnap a child. You do not lie to a child for years. You do not tell a child only when forced to do so, while that same child is in the hospital and probably scared half to death. She was not "meant" to be their daughter. They kidnapped her because they are selfish people, and they did their own share of abusing her by lying to her for her entire life. That's why we don't rescue children by kidnapping - we rescue them by calling the damn authorities. That poor kid could have been legally adopted for most of her life, if only that couple had considered what was best for HER, not what was best for themselves.

@karlapoof7115

Жыл бұрын

@@TheYasmineFlower at the same coin, CPS is bullshit you gotta understand tht right, they take away children from good homes its happened. And then children with bad homes they just let them be abused for example gabriel fernandez. Honestly in my eyes they good people. The system is entirely broken

@talieclandestine9155

Жыл бұрын

@@TheYasmineFlower they had another option. Though, technically it would have been black mail. The could have written an agreement between them for the child and notarized. They could have still left the courts out of it. CPS would have a hard time pursuing that case. Even though, it wouldn't have been a legal adoption. Heck, she could claim they had a verbal agreement she "forgot" about because she was so high. There are still options on the table.

@rompa8421

Жыл бұрын

@@TheYasmineFlower Right bc the cps are saints and they don’t take children away from good parents.🙄 that was sarcasm if you didn’t understand

@rompa8421

Жыл бұрын

@@TheYasmineFlower You’re acting as if all children in the system Arent abused on a daily and most don’t even find homes. You literally sound ridiculous

She could drop the charges right? Like she knew that her daughter getting kidnapped was the best thing that could've happened to her. There's no way she would want these people punished for saving her kid

@nasteho6614

Жыл бұрын

Umm.. I don’t have any legal expertise but I would imagine the State/County/Fed Court would want to punish the illegal act of kidnapping. The act itself is illegal and did irreparable harm to the bio mom ( even if she wasn’t fit to be a mom at the time) so…somebody gotta do the time for that

@thatonedog819

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that's possible since they are criminal charges... Especially concerning a minor. But she could have signed over custody and parental rights at any time and this wouldn't have been a problem

@Whitneypyant

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think she could because it’s federal crime

@KatLuff

Жыл бұрын

As others have said, because this would be criminal (rather than a misdemeanor,) the choice to press charges or not press charges would be up to the authorities (in Canada it would be the Crown Attorney, I'd guess the US has something similar.)

@witch_in_a_wheelchair3050

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, as someone who was a victim of a crime as a minor in the US, I'm not sure. In my case, I had to press charges, the police couldn't arrest him until I pressed charges, and I couldn't do it on my own until I was legally an adult. I think they could potentially get the charges dropped, but I'm not sure, my case wasn't quite the same.

The parents do the right thing, they save that girl's life

@simiaki12

Жыл бұрын

I could see a jury acquiting them

@seriascannain6675

Жыл бұрын

@@simiaki12 If the mother testified on her behalf, it is possible!

@yourboymalikcoleman8731

Жыл бұрын

@@simiaki12 definitely

@veronicalynn876

Жыл бұрын

@@simiaki12 yeah they DID kidnap her after all

@alexanderelderhorst2107

2 ай бұрын

the RIGHT thing is hospitalisation for the child and calling CPS and police to assess the mother, are you all stupid?!? She nearly died because they kidnapped the child and witheld that info which would have shown genetic disorders.

So even though it’s just a show… the fact that the mother had appreciation for what the couple did is amazing. She knew she was not fit at the moment to care for her, they saw that and made a choice they knew was legally wrong, but morally right. Loved this episode ❤️❤️

@yourboymalikcoleman8731

Жыл бұрын

Facts if I was a cop I would of let them go

@MissNayNay22

Жыл бұрын

@@yourboymalikcoleman8731 yeah I would have had a problem arresting them. May have just quit as an officer with that one.

@yourboymalikcoleman8731

Жыл бұрын

@@MissNayNay22 to me they did the right thing

@Lysiasolo

Жыл бұрын

@NayNay Could you tell me pls how did the episode end?? Did the police release the couple??

@MissNayNay22

Жыл бұрын

@@Lysiasolo I’m not sure I never saw the full episode. But if someone has I’d love to know

Even with the circumstances it's absolutely wrong to take Gabi away from the people who raised her in my opinion. They're perfectly capable parents and staying with them is likely what's best for her.

@ThePrincessCH

Жыл бұрын

Can they still raise her if their in jail?

@MissCV

Жыл бұрын

Nope

@justmagdalenadownhere

Жыл бұрын

They didn't raise her, they were neglecting her. They weren't perfectly capable parents. She's lucky that her circumstance of the kidnapping wasn't malicious. Obviously you shouldn't scoop kids up and take them if you just feel like it, but it's not right to let something bad happen in front of you if you know you can do something to help.

@Tottosmile

Жыл бұрын

@@justmagdalenadownhere I wasn't referring to the kidnapping, I meant that taking her away from the people that DID raise her (for example if they went to prison) wouldn't be what's best for her.

@justmagdalenadownhere

Жыл бұрын

@@Tottosmile ahh, my mistake. I didn't realise. Apologies if I sounded argumentative, I was just incredibly confounded.

When the biological mother said I thought she was dead... Speaks so many words... That just tells us she didn't even look for her... Even though this was a kidnapping it's also a blessing in disguise.. .... You know the saying... Everything happens for a reason

@kristingallo2158

Жыл бұрын

They let a woman believe her child was dead . That's cruel.

@xXxTearsForgottenxXx

Жыл бұрын

@@kristingallo2158 What's cruel is leaving a child that can't feed or take care of itself outside of your apartment and then not even bothering to look for it or face consequences out of self preservation.

@kristingallo2158

Жыл бұрын

@@xXxTearsForgottenxXx That's when you're supposed to call the police and not walk away with a child.

@cindypicadomolina7814

Жыл бұрын

@@kristingallo2158 but the system for adopting kids or fostering them is broken. Most of the time, they end up in abusive households regardless. Better for them to be raise forever lovingly by someone who finds them then the government system that makes the kids suffer regardless

@zariyalesueur5870

Жыл бұрын

@@kristingallo2158 so you rather them call the authorities so she can be put in foster care which from what I’ve heard is no better than being abandoned??? You see what they did when they found out even though it was clear she was fine with it

Someone can be a mother but not a mom. Two different things.

@LittleKitty22

Жыл бұрын

Very true! As a survivor of childhood abuse, I have to keep very quiet about what happened to me because people don't understand this basic principle and refuse to believe that not all parents are loving - and then they accuse me of "fantasizing" if I tell my story. Trouble is - me staying silent, enables abusers to abuse others...

@sunked5106

Жыл бұрын

tbh this is very true

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

Both mother and mom literally mean the same thing. Mom is a contraction of mother initiated by the child because it's simpler to say.

@mememe1011

Жыл бұрын

Right! Just like a father and a dad.

@virgie4715

Жыл бұрын

@@LittleKitty22 right. The only way this stuff can be prevented is if we speak out about it. The more everyone knows about child abuse, the easier it is to spot it. I really like to think younger generations are letting go of that victim blaming mentality.

There's no way, as a family court judge, I could hear of this couple being sentenced to jail time. The child was critically neglected, and would have floundered in the system, had she even made it that far. The couple, whilst they technically broke the law, did not cause net harm.

@buttercreamfrosting3869

Жыл бұрын

Then you don't know the justice system. It's a disgusting pool of people

@TheYasmineFlower

Жыл бұрын

Family court judges don't sentence people. Criminal court judges do. And the couple caused untold harm. Kidnapping a child when they could have informed the authorities - the child could have gone into the foster system and either been legally adopted by real adoptive parents, or placed with reliable family members of her mother. Lying to the child about her identity for years. Not telling her that she's "adopted" would be bad enough even in a situation where there's actually an adoption. Adopted kids who get told when they are old enough to remember being told overall do worse than adopted kids who have always known. That breach of trust not only came later in life, it came when the child was in the hospital awaiting a liver transplant. That would terrify an adult, how much more would it terrify a child. If you see a kid being harmed, you call the authorities. You do not play judge, jury and executioner. You call the authorities. They have the legal right to remove children from harmful situations. You don't.

@fab4809

Жыл бұрын

@@TheYasmineFlower But if the said child and her biological mother don't want to press charges as it looks like in the video what happens then?

@Astro4545

Жыл бұрын

@@fab4809 Its not actually up to the bio mom to press charges, the government can do so if they want to.

@bluehead310

Жыл бұрын

@@fab4809 bro this isn’t assault it’s literally kidnapping

CPS and Foster Care are not all they are cracked up to be. Sometimes they are much worse.

@cassandrahepp6445

Жыл бұрын

I know a woman who had her 2 kids taken away. She was a druggie but she did care about her children and she kept them clean and fed despite her habit. Not a week after the kids were placed the foster father beat her 4 year old little boy to death. It broke her. She was never ok again after that. Who would be. All that being said I also know a foster family that adopted many children. They were strict with the kids but they did take care of them and raised them in a secure safe home.

@yourboymalikcoleman8731

Жыл бұрын

@@cassandrahepp6445 the system is broken

@kingsthangs

Жыл бұрын

As a CPS specialist (my 2nd year), they are so short staff it’s horrible. I’m still consider a trainee in my state. Yet they gave me a stack of files my first year. Their turnover rate is high

@jessm9313

Жыл бұрын

As a child that was removed by cps and put in foster care thank you for saying this.

@KyrieFortune

2 ай бұрын

A former employer of mine had been taken away from her mom at the age of 15 because /her brother/ was a drug addict. Not her mother, but her brother. They took a teenager growing into a troubled home and left the source of troubles with the mother, who was of course left to her devices with no help and the brother to keep getting drugs without help for rehab. The brother almost killed her mother while I was working for my employer. And of course, no one helped my employer, no one would adopt or foster care a 15yo who didn't even need to be there, because it was the other sibling who should have been taken to a rehab center.

It wasn’t a kidnap.. it was a rescue and that baby has every right to feel the way she felt but the mother understood everything.

@kristingallo2158

Жыл бұрын

It was a kidnapping, they took someone's baby and left her real mom believe she was dead.

@cindypicadomolina7814

Жыл бұрын

@@kristingallo2158 the mom was the one that left her outside the house when she was inside getting high on drugs. The baby was being neglected already, starved, etc. Would you have preferred that just listened to the baby screaming outside all night until it died eventually??

@kristingallo2158

Жыл бұрын

@@cindypicadomolina7814 you still can't just take a random child and not alert authorities or get legal custody. That's not how laws work.

HOUSE never would have snitched, he would have thought outside of the box.

I’m glad the kidnapping was well-intentioned and it benefited/saved the girl’s life but they should have called CPS and foster to adopt while they prepare to go to court

@darkopz

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps. But then again if you knew anything at all about the foster system, CPS and what kids go through then you wouldn’t be saying this.

@MissAlii432

Жыл бұрын

Cps and foster care come with trauma and abuse 98% of the time

@arielcrass2342

Жыл бұрын

@@darkopz you are 100% correct. In a perfect world calling CPS would’ve been a good thing but in reality if they called CPS they wouldn’t of been able to save that baby. Either they wouldn’t do anything or they love taking kids out of homes just to put them in abusive ones, or after the Parent does some stupid classes they get their kid back and a week later you see the kid dead on the news. I think what they did was the correct way to save her. CPS woulda just left her for dead…

@honeyspice8989

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t trust CPS with my dog. That whole system is so corrupt that chances are they wouldn’t even want to see the case and bring the kid back to her mom. Just recently they refused to take 3 or 4 other children from a mom who have had let her mentally I’ll daughter starve and rot to death. And the mom was arrested. No thanks I would rather take the chance of jail time over any possibility that, that child could be abused in anyway.

@julinde

Жыл бұрын

@@honeyspice8989 Yep. I would have done the same exact thing. CPS can rot for all I care. If I could raise that baby on my own so she could grow up happy, safe, and healthy. I'll take my chances.

Exactly why didn't they just claim she was a "Doorstop Baby"?

@katmuncher

Жыл бұрын

Then they wouldn’t be able to use the biological mom as a donor

@KatLuff

Жыл бұрын

You still can't just keep a baby because it appears on your doorstep. You need to file a report and go through the proper channels to foster/adopt the baby. It's not like finding a stray kitten and taking it home.

@adamdymke8004

Жыл бұрын

@@KatLuff Your supposed to register those too.

I actually know a family who was in a situation like this. All they had to do was ask for permission, get it in writing, and it was no big deal.

They didn't do the legal thing, they did the right thing.

@not_really_here2379

23 күн бұрын

I’d love to see it in court. It falls under the legal definition of “kidnapping” but the jury would most likely see it as rescuing.

I'm more bothered by the fact that no one else in that apartment building had even bothered to help before the couple took her. Who knows the neighbors and building manager had probably called CPS dozens of times and nothing ever came from it. The neighbors were probably relieved when they saw that baby with the couple and knew she was being properly taken care of

@kanikagaral7637

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. It's not possible the baby cried only that one time. They must have heardher cry so many time before they did what they did. Atleast they tried to help other people in the building didn't even bother to check up on the poor child

This is not how you aid a patient. This is not how a donor is introduced. You certainly don't arrest the family she's known in front of them in such a critical condition when they are not a threat. If you have to, you get them away from the patient out of sight where the patient's condition is not at risk of becoming worse from stress. The doctor ignoring Gabbie's demand that the biological mother be made to leave her room is a huge red flag. Whoever wrote this did an appaling job.

@LibertBelle-dl6xp

Жыл бұрын

I agree. They are always harping on “respecting the patient’s wishes” in every other episode but when a child says she wants the bio mom out of her room you hesitate and try to convince her to stay? Pure BS

@kristingallo2158

Жыл бұрын

@@LibertBelle-dl6xp Well the bio mom is technically still the legal guardian and her "parents" stole her and lied to multiple government agencies including schools.

@Ba-kt6ju

9 ай бұрын

@@kristingallo2158 Literally in other episodes they’ve made parents leave their actual children. This lady didn’t even raise her daughter. She has no right.

@kristingallo2158

9 ай бұрын

@@Ba-kt6ju she has her parental rights , these people illegally snatched her.

@kristingallo2158

9 ай бұрын

@@Ba-kt6ju you have no rights to take random people's children. At least without notifying authorities

What's right isn't always legal. (And what's legal isn't always right.) This couple might not have acted within the bounds of the law, but what they did was absolutely the right thing.

It's not as if they took her as she was playing on a playground all healthy, and being well taken care of.. they rescued her from a sure death. Much blessings to them for that..

Lol in our country, the parents who took care of the kid will never be charged. And the drug addict would be charged for child neglect, and drug possession (if she is still doing it). Everybody knows the foster care system here is almost non-existent, even the police. They can't fault the new parents for taking care of the child. Better than the kid living in the streets.

@virgie4715

Жыл бұрын

No, but in the US both parties could be charged. The parents could be charged for kidnapping and the bio mom could receive neglect charges. One probably wouldn’t be pushed without the other in the US. I agree with you from a moral standpoint, but legally both are at fault. However, considering the birth mother probably wouldn’t go stand in court and speak against the parents, the parents probably wouldn’t speak against her out of fear she may retaliate so honestly I’d say no charges would be filed. If there were, chances are no convictions would take place unless they were probation like plea deals. Just my opinion from dealing with the US’s justice system. Ofc I’ve not dealt with a situation like this and I’m not a professional.

@tauntdragoon

Жыл бұрын

@@virgie4715 you hit pretty much on the head the biological mother could also just say she let them take care of her daughter cause she wasnt fit and it make it hard for charages to stick and it also depends on where in the states it happens and if the DA want to press for it then all they both could probably beat the charges with a jurry

@wimsylogic65

Жыл бұрын

In my mind the only person who did wrong was the mother. She basically abandoned her child. She left a baby Outside her apartment. No why she thought her daughter was dead. Because she would have been if that couple didn't take her. No I don't think this is common and the legal way around things are there for a reason. But going the legal route is not always what's best for the child. At this stage in life they should really be looking at the child and what is best for her. And I say what's best for her is to stay with the parents who raised her and saved her life they gave her a life. Her daughter looks like she was loved and well taken care of. I don't see why the biological's mother's feelings or well being should be taken into account at All. That said they probably should have tried to go over the legal route and report the mother. However the risk were doing that is, They may lose the child too. They obviously cared a lot about her, And the system has a lot of problems that keep kids from going to actual loving families. There are 2 strict in some areas in not strict enough in others.

@officialmai

Жыл бұрын

@@wimsylogic65 In a criminal case (which I'm assuming this would be), the jury has the right (jury nullification) to choose a verdict with their heart. If most of them have morals, I'm sure the parents would be fine.

I can understand where the bio mom is coming from. She was in a bad place and neglecting a helpless baby on a regular basis. Without the "adoptive" parents' (illegal) intervention, Gaby would've likely either died from neglect or spent her whole life bouncing in foster care with CPS breathing down her and her bio mom's neck, threatening to take the child away at every possible misstep. This way, bio mom got clean, got on her feet, and saved herself. And her daughter was still alive. It was probably one of the best case scenarios for everyone involved, in the most heart-shattering way.

This is why the justice system fails us on a daily basis.

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

Hard to say, because if the kidnappers had just called CPS them none of this mess would have happened. The system might not be perfect, but the system will definitely fail 100% of the time it isn't used.

@The_New_IKB

Жыл бұрын

@@rsrt6910 I wouldn't trust CPS in America with a goldfish!!!

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

@@The_New_IKB But we don't know if that's the case here, and since it was never addressed we can't make assumptions.

@finestdime

Жыл бұрын

@@rsrt6910 cps would not have just given the child to that couple. They probably wouldn't have gotten her at all. That girl would have continued to suffer while the due process took forever to do anything to save her

They didn't kidnap her, they took in an abandoned child. Only thing they're at fault for is not reporting it to the police to possibly keep her legally.

It’s crazy, I went to college with the cousin of that girl who got kidnapped when she was a baby and then found out years later, her name was Kamiyah Mobley. He was devastated, we literally were just all kicking it one night when he got the phone call that his aunt had been arrested for kidnapping.

@TheYasmineFlower

Жыл бұрын

The fallout from what that woman has done is so huge. :/ I hope he was able to cope with it.

@ImDorkyGirl

Жыл бұрын

She deserved real prison time, after what she did to that family. But not being sided, but it appears she was better off, bc her birth mother continued to have more babies n stay impoverished n dad amounted to nothing. I wonder how she’s doing now

@seanclarke5969

Жыл бұрын

So this is a true story don't care if she was kidnapped what the boligoical mother did is unacceptable the mother and father should not have been given a second chance if you can not Take care of baby you don't deserve to be a parent

@kerijbush

13 күн бұрын

It’s a small world. My mom was very close with the parents of the woman who kidnapped Kamiyah. I knew them all my life. I’ll never forget the day that my mom’s friend called to tell my mom that her daughter was in prison for kidnapping Kamiyah. My mother screamed like someone had died. We were so shocked and couldn’t understand why she did it! My mom still checks on her mother.

The doctors didn’t care about her health 100% once they knew about the situation. Her birth mother knew she didn’t care if her child was killed or what. They could’ve brought them all together and discussed it before calling the cops smfh now all the child knows is gone and she’s left in a hospital by herself dieing smfh

@alanaarnold7612

Жыл бұрын

Um legally they have to immediately call the cops 😂

@GGM77263

Жыл бұрын

@@alanaarnold7612 I’m aware of the legal responsibilities but how many times have they found a way to go around that for other situations . Even the mother didn’t want them arrested she even wanted to meet them and thank them .

@GalaxyGal-

Жыл бұрын

They're mandated reporters. Every bone in their body was telling them not to report, but they can go to prison for failing to report a kidnapping.

@The_New_IKB

Жыл бұрын

@@GalaxyGal- but if no body tells and no one involved would have any reason to do so, that's a risk I would take

@cjade4530

Жыл бұрын

@@The_New_IKB that’s a risk that can actually make you lose your license though

This was not kidnapping, what they did was rescuing. I know people who’s parents were god awful drug addicts and brutal alcoholics. To take a child the way they did and give her a life where she’s not exposed to such a toxic world is an act of heroism.

The fact (idr his name) the Asian doctor scoffed at her wanting to thank them just...like...did he not pay attention to the story of *why* they took her?

@kanikagaral7637

Жыл бұрын

Hr couldn't believe this woman has clarity even after all the drugs she took.

@princessvasquez3668

Жыл бұрын

He is very much a holier than thou type of person

@beckygeer6480

Жыл бұрын

I believe his character has a bad history with fostering and adoption but also something about his birth mom???

1:51 the nurse has clearly made a mistake. It's never lupus

@Princess_DYS

Жыл бұрын

"I understood that reference." *Pulls a bottle of Vicodin out of a Lupus textbook.*

@superwhizz114

Жыл бұрын

*Vicodin intensifies*

@itfan42

Жыл бұрын

Exactly my thought 😂

@helenfaith1508

Жыл бұрын

except for that one time

Actually Gaby would be grateful that they 'kidnapped' her, because otherwise she would've probably ended up either dying or in some messy situation like her mother growing up in the streets, they did save her future. And they also saved her from tons of trauma too.

@cakhuxel

Жыл бұрын

Actually, you don’t know what a real “Gaby” would feel because you did not share this experience….or did you?

@emoticonfeliz2129

Жыл бұрын

@@cakhuxel You don't have to grow up to a drug addict single mother in the streets to know how it would (most likely) end up since there are hundreds of examples around you so you can see how it usually turns out to be, even if she collected herself later in life, she would have a decent amount of childhood trauma. Neglectful parents and unfiting growing environment make traumatized children it's common sense.

Everyone understood that they saved that girl. Even the mom and the girl.

When I read the title, I was like why would you kidnap a child. Then I watched the clip and was like they were trying to help her and give her a better life. Now how they did it is not right. They could have called the cops and reported her. And then adopted her

@claucemicro1080

Жыл бұрын

The issue is that they would probably would not have been allowed to adopt her because they too were poor, otherwise they wouldn’t be living in the same building as some junkies.

She never reported her missing, she probably a few years after cleaned herself up, but was ashamed and afraid. She wanted to thank the couple who took her child, I hope she dropped charges unless that’s a federal thing and unavoidable

They didn't kidnap her. They saved her! No argument. And clearly the bio mom didn't miss her

The fact that even the mother agrees she would have died and that they saved her will go a long way to reduce any sentence they possibly get.

I kind of hate that the doctors dont see ut from the parents view. Yes, its kidnapping, but if its to effectively save the child's life, is it that bad? The only other option was calling CPS, and we all know how that ends.

@hiddentidesgaming

Жыл бұрын

Legally required in hospitals. They are mandated reporters, same with teachers too.

I hope they had a plan to get shared custody at the end of the episode... this is heartbreaking

Sometimes, doing the wrong thing, for the right reasons, is the best choice at that time. She would have ended up in foster home. Adoption takes a long time, and is expensive. There will be a lot more children abandoned , or left in bad situations, now that Roe is overturned.

If they didn't take her, she very well could have died. CPS probably wouldn't have helped either. It's sad that they called it kidnapping, but they saved her life

They could have reported to child services and legally adopted her

i feel bad for the girl her life was literally torn apart!!

They shouldn’t go to jail for saving a child

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

They're not, they're going to jail for not calling CPS.

@Princess_DYS

Жыл бұрын

@@rsrt6910 Why do you feel the need to reply to every comment that uses the word "Saving" instead of Kidnapping? All they are saying is that while technically yes it is kidnapping, it was justified in a way. Sure the couple could have gone about it in a different way that probably would have ended with the Bio mom getting arrested for endangering the wellfare of a child, but either way they *saved* that girl. The Bio mom said the same thing at the end of this clip and even wanted to thank them for it.

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

@@Princess_DYS Why do you feel the need to redefine the word kidnapping because it's for a good reason?

@Princess_DYS

Жыл бұрын

@@rsrt6910 Why wouldn't I? They saved that child and the Bio mom even said it and wanted to thank them for it.

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

@@Princess_DYS Because the use of a symbolic language has allowed humans to communicate mistakes and successes across space and time. But if we continually try to "redefine" what words mean because we don't like whatever emotional baggage it comes with, then we loose the ability to learn from our mistakes and doomed to repeat them.

I will never understand why media still portrays adoption like this. Yes they didnt do the paperwork but they’re her parents. As an adopted person I’ve NEVER seen an accurate portrayal of the reality of adoption EVER

@thesunrisechick6878

Жыл бұрын

This isn’t legal adoption so you should NOT compare it to your own.

@buttercreamfrosting3869

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't an adoption of course its not accurate. They stole a baby. Good or bad intentions, this is NOT adoption of any sort lol

@SouthernBell86

Жыл бұрын

This is not adoption, it's kidnapping.

@fayezentner619

Жыл бұрын

As a adopted person I agree

Many years ago, people took in a raised a child who was in need of being taken care of. That NEVER would have been considered kidnap

These are loving parents. They deserve a medal!

@louiscyphre2267

4 ай бұрын

It’s just a tv show calm down.

It ain’t kidnapping if you’re saving them from a horrible life

@rsrt6910

Жыл бұрын

Yeah... uhm... weather you like the term or not, it's STILL kidnapping.

@electricityisgreat2767

Жыл бұрын

by definition it is,doesnt matter whether is right or wrong

Wtf were they expecting when they tried to introduce bio mom to the kid, hugs and kisses?

The character of the doc who expressed surprise that the birth mother wanted to thank the couple who took the child does not understand addiction, or more importantly, recovery. Leaving the child unattended in a hallway while getting high is the selfish part of addiction. Recognizing the importance of the life saving action of the couple who TOOK her child is a symptom of the generosity that may be found in recovery--and thinking of others before you think of yourself. To me, the birth mother's reaction (now in recovery) was perfectly normal.

For anyone commenting they did the right thing and its not really kidnapping, thank God this is a show. In the real world, if anyone is in this situation, a biological parent can willingly sign over their rights to someone they choose. It doesn't cost a lot and its legal.

@TheYasmineFlower

Жыл бұрын

And it can't be done for felons imprisoned for kidnapping a child. Moot point.

@Eidlones

9 ай бұрын

​@@TheYasmineFlower Bring the baby in, call CPS, once it all goes through legally, adopt her. Not just keep her.

@Fujoshi1412

6 ай бұрын

It’s a show. And they probably went down that round because it’s what leads to the bio mom figuring out she’s on a bad path. Her thinking her daughter died is what leads her to cleaning herself up probably. It’s also why she probably wanted to thank them. It’s true they could have gone down the route you’re mentioning. But for the sake of the episode let’s say she does that but doesn’t clean up her left as a result. Now there is no donor. The shock of thinking her child probably died while in truth she was kidnapped is what leads her down a path to recovery from being an addict. It’s also how she’s probably able to save her daughter. Still not saying it was the right thing but for the plot of the episode it’s what the went with.

Even if they did technicality kidnapp her they probably an honestly saved her life there is a chance she would have died being left out for hours on end. But I'm happy the mother was able to get back on her feet. An try an be In her daughter's life, along with the fact she was grateful for the couple for giving her daughter the life she deserved.

if you're experiencing motherhood recently, this hits hard

Imagine if kidnapping involves raising someone else’s children in supportive homes and families and receiving all the love like this, I would’ve been thanking them too🤷🏾‍♀️

My parents (both bio; male and female) have never used drugs except for medical reasons, have always kept their alcohol levels to a minimum, and have raised my siblings and me with love, care, and understanding. I have never really known what abuse was until a certain age when I learned about it in school and it still shocks me to my core about the different types a person may have to go through in their day-to-day lives. My parents taught us that we always have to be weary of danger and know the world around us, otherwise we will just be putting ourselves in situations we do not want to be in. I am scared of dating at the age of 28 because I don't know what is going through a person's head whether they are male, female, trans, binary, or non-binary. I don't have the words to offer comfort or reassure anyone commenting or viewing this video that the world is a kind place because the truth is *it is not*. And it may never be a kind or pleasant place, even to those like me. All I can say is, I am so sorry for all you have been through. Each and every single one of you who has gone through abuse and survived day-to-day without losing yourself to the pain and the depression are much stronger than anyone can ever give you credit for. Including me. God knows I wouldn't be able to stand abuse without losing myself in the process. I thank each and every single one of you for the bits and pieces you provide by sharing your stories with the world and for being so brave to share your individual experiences. All of you.

@claucemicro1080

Жыл бұрын

Sarah, you probably need therapy. Dating is a wonderful thing even if you don’t end up marrying the guy. Of course you have to take certain precautions and it’s usually safer to date someone who have friends in common with you or whose background you know.

That’s the girl from the Chi

Dad is AB, daughter is O, he cannot be her father.....this is exactly how I found out my "dad" wasn't my dad, we did blood testing in High school biology class.. My brother and I (middle kids of 8 children) are both O. best news I ever got!!!!!

@ann5986

Жыл бұрын

Well the last part say a lot about what type of a "parent" you had, and I understand you perfectly, unfortunately mine was biologically, but in every other way was a soul torturer.

@rexandmax

Жыл бұрын

for me my dad has AB, my mom has O and I have O and per the paternity test I made my parents do after my high school science teacher said my dad wasn't my dad and I came home bawling my eyes out. I am 99.83% my fathers daughter. it's not impossible just unlikely. According to the DR. when we went to do the paternity test he said that since my mom's O it would be extremely rare if one of my siblings was AB, we should all be either A, B or O not AB, course out of 5 kids we have 2 AB, 1 B,1 A and 1o

@dianasmith8248

Жыл бұрын

@@rexandmax So my uncle is AB and my late aunt was O. The older of their two children is O like their mother and he is indeed his dad’s child. Their youngest is B so she got the B from his AB.

@kookycat9663

Жыл бұрын

My dad is A+, my Mum O-... My older sister & my younger sister are both O+ & I, the middle child, am A+... We are all my Dad's... Blood groups don't necessarily negate parentage...

Some people aren't meant to be parents. The stigma of abortion among minorities is huge and hurtful. Drugs, alcohol, mental disorders... They can and will hurt, kill and destroy a child growing up. Just because this woman In the episode got clean, doesn't mean it's possible for others.

@mela.santi2908

Жыл бұрын

THIS

@ashleiw6376

Жыл бұрын

That doesn't mean the child doesn't deserve to live...if life is tough doesn't mean we should simply die. Choosing to kill a baby because it's life may be tough is wrong choosing to commit suicide because life got hard is wrong. The child still deserves to live.

@zecardinadraws

Жыл бұрын

@@ashleiw6376 I would agree with this, if the adoption system wasn't terrible. So, you either need to get rid of it while it's still just a clump of cells, you can hope someone's willing to take your baby, put it into a system that'll fail them because, for better or for worse, anyone can adopt a child and there's many stories of children being in and out of foster homes because someone was abusing them, or, you can take care of it yourself while you're either trying to finish school, trying to keep your company floating, working out a relationship, or trying to get sober, which can lead to unintentional neglet because for one reason or another you had a baby when you weren't ready.

@Avocadoaficionados

Жыл бұрын

wow just minorities need abortions ?

@ashleiw6376

Жыл бұрын

@@zecardinadraws I'm not going to read any of that because none of it matters to whether or not it should get to live. I do agree however our systems to support young mothers struggling mothers or even systems to protect kids from bad situations adoptions foster care cps etc all need to be worked on and fixed so why don't we all stop acting like fools protesting the right to kill babies and start fighting for a better system to handle those born to mothers who don't want them or can't take care of them or have mental health issues and let's fight for a better system to handle children from abusive households a better system for handling them foster care and adoptions better training and regulations for cps that's what we should be discussing. I do not believe it's a clump of cells and I'm not about to have that debate I believe our system fails mothers and children's and even fathers but none of those are excuse enough to end it's life it's potential it's possibility to live and become something great ending it's unique genetic code of what eye color it has what hair color how tall it will be etc all because it may be inconvenient tough difficult... I live in a state where late abortions are available and it's disgusting I used to be pro choice because in my opinion whoever has an abortion has to live with the guilt and if they are religious and if there is a God then they will face their judgment one day and it's not for me to force them to make the right decisions. However the extreme side of this pushed further and further to where now in some states like mine late abortions are available and even if the mother gives birth unexpectedly early when she had a planned abortion scheduled with their doctor a discussion between the mother and doctors can be had on whether to make the child comfortable give it up for adoption or keep it at that point and because of these disgusting state bills on this I no longer believe this should be a choice individually and I speak up for it being wrong altogether now

Obvious in this case why the girl doesn't want her birth mother but it's sad in cases where a new born was stolen from the hospital and though raised loving, mightl never form a proper bond with their bio parents who did nothing wrong.

@melelconquistador

Жыл бұрын

Something similar happened. A missing baby was found as an adult man. His grandparents kidnapped and raised him a state away because his parents were drug addicts.

Dr Charles knows something is wrong just by looking at you 🤣🤣🤣 or simply just passing by you,, he’ll notice something isn’t right ..

was just watching The Chi.. and wow.. and was surprised to see "Jemma" from the show as the girl

kidnapping is bad but at least they had a good reason

The only thing they need to understand is the parents was telling the truth 💯 "we saved her life"

They SAVED that little baby. Honestly i would've done the same thing again and again!

Technically, I'd say the the Bio mom abandoned her baby if it was continuously left outside of her apartment in a fairly public place.

@k.c.8662

Жыл бұрын

The way you described it is exactly why it's not abandonment. It was neglectful for sure, but not abandonment.

She left the baby in the hall for someone to take pity on the poor thing and do what she knew she wasn't capable of doing.

This shows idea of right and wrong is so twisted. This isn’t the only Episode that has demonstrated this. It’s infected with a twisted ideology.

They had the right intension, but what they did was wrong

The adoptive mother was so beautiful.

Do no harm, they said.

This nurse has the most beautiful hair I have ever seen!

Ive learnt one thing in my 20-years of life; *Family isnt always blood-related.* You could be family with people who have no shared genes with you. Its not all about blood-relations and biological bonds. Because sometimes, those blood-relatives of yours could be the *END OF YOU.*

This had me in tears because i have seen children who have suffered by the hands of drug addicts. So i could only imagine what these people were trying to save her from

It seems like the mother realizes she was in the wrong and isn’t even mad or surprised that her daughter hates her. I can see that the mother has changed. I hope she can convince cops not to lock up the couple because even she admitted they rescued her. I also hope that with time Gabby can find it in her heart to forgive her mother and the three can share a joint custody.

Free these people, they saved a child from death or worse things

They should've said that they found her on their door step.

Kidnapped??? Not quite the same thing

So stirring! And the portrayal of wonderful Doctors diagnosing rare (I hope ! ) conditions ! Their devotion to healing , no matter what , proves they’re real Vets !

Poor kid. That's a lot of trauma in a couple of days. She found out she has a serious disease and needs a transplant, her parents kidnapped her and then she meets her bio mom.

They didn’t do anything wrong but they could’ve legally went about it. Reported the mother, put Gabbie into the system, and then adopted her legally.

I don’t want to say they didn’t kidnap because they did regardless or not if they did save her. I don’t think they should be charged because they didn’t cause any harm to her, they saved her and took care of her and thought it was better if she had a better home. But they could’ve contacted cps or the police and discuss the matter and they probably could’ve adopted her and it wouldn’t have to be this situation! But I also don’t know how I feel about cps so?!

No man can ever understand a real mamas heart & true connection

You know there’s a thought forming when dr Charles gives a deep look to the camera

"Im sorry but we have to report this" Me: "no we don't i didn hear nuthin" 🙄

@aznmochibunny

Жыл бұрын

Anyone who works in the hospital is legally required to regardless of their morals or else they could lose their license. They are mandated reporters.

@JohnPaul-nb5iu

Жыл бұрын

@@aznmochibunny Can't report what you didn't hear, And i didn hear nuthin.

Yeah, she should thank them. And no charges pressed.

I heard a real case like this the birth mom waz homeless living out of a tent in New york DURING THE WINTER a couple saw her baby took him and it took her 10 years to get off the street and another 10 years to work up the courage to file a report the jury acquitted them and saw them as heroes for saving the child

For anyone who is sad at the end of this I’m glad to tell you that irl if something like this were to happen the best possible outcome would be a jury nullification. Basically they decide that they are guilty of the crime but because of the nature and circumstances of said crime they will not be punished for there crime. This is very rarely talked about and can actually get you booted off a jury for having knowledge about it. But it however does exist within the US legal system.

@Chellythefox

6 ай бұрын

I'm actually glad to hear that, considering that the parents didn't have any malicious intentions. They thought they were doing the right thing and were saving a child's life. Could have they gone about things differently? Most likely but at the end of the day; they wanted to save the baby and provide a good life to the daughter since the mother was a drug addict. I personally hope that the bio mother is able to visit + share custody with the parents considering the mother did get herself clean and a job + admit that she was in the wrong and want to thank the couple for saving her daughter.

I feel they technically didn’t kidnap her but instead saved her

That’s Jemma from the Chi

Why didn’t the couple call CPS? They obviously would’ve removed the child, and if there was already a couple willing to have her placed with them, CPS probably would’ve allowed it, right?

9:43 Dr. Choi: bewildered. Me: Makes perfect sense.

I found out I was stolen when I was 19 (I always knew I was adopted) and my bio sister was also taken. Her story was actually almost exactly like this one. Mine was a little more complicated, but our birthmother was a 16yr old drug addict in Romania in 1990 & 91, so no one could/wanted to do anything about it

@kingofeurobeat9332

7 ай бұрын

And based on your username you grew up to be a drug addict too. Hopefully someday that changes.