If an engine got that hot it melted those components I would check for more damage like injectors and what about the rod and Cam bearings the thermostat, head gasket, piston rings and more. Before buying components I would check that, it can become very expensive very quickly. Love to see a full rebuild though. ❤👍

@Graplernapler

5 ай бұрын

My thought exactly, those rings must have gotten mighty hot.

@kamil19951

5 ай бұрын

Same for all the rubber seals, valve stem seals etc. surely that got affected.

That sensor that is melted in the valve cover is called the Cylinder Identification Sensor, AKA, Cam Sensor. The engine will not run without it, as that sensor is what controls ignition timing. At a minimum, you need coils, plugs, and the cam sensor. I would also rerun that entire compression test and see what your delta is (difference between cylinders) because that will tell you if you have any other issues beside cylinder 3, which is about half what you should have.

Might be best to order the camshaft sensor for the timing that overheated .Will look forward to the full engine strip 🙂

@robertdavis6708

5 ай бұрын

My 2 cents also.

Engine would have had to exceed +200 degrees celcius (400 farenheit) for plastic to melt and I would have thought those parts would be even more heat resistant, note the engine oil is likely to boil at those temparatures - that's some serious overheating and you probably have piston and ring damage. GL with this project.

@speedfreak8200

5 ай бұрын

Maybe an electrical short, good compression in all but 1 cylinder, added oil to cylinder & comp. went up, so worn or stuck rings. As carboned up as the plugs are, something ain't right, Kal?

Have had an apex since 2008, amazing sleds! Yes, they absolutely retain value. Those motors will run forever if maintained properly. 16k on mine, no issues except exhaust donuts.

I haven’t worked on a sled since like the 90s. When they were easy to work on, and figure out a problem. I cannot believe what a nightmare that thing looks like to work on.

The rings got melted to the piston, you shouldn't have more than 10% difference in compression between all cylinders

@Gtingboy

5 ай бұрын

I once had a real badly damaged rotax 787 out of a sea doo that the compression was out 5 psi from each other. 140, 135 .Was in real bad shape when I opened it. Scored all to hell. There is a plastic cover that seals the counter balancer on those engines and it was non existent, so it was pulling all its air in on the one cylinder through the counterbalancer bearing. It required a new crankshaft, piston, the cylinder almost wasn’t usable with some pretty deep up and down scores but the hone cleaned it up pretty good. Leak down tests are much more accurate in testing an engines life

Nice that it is not a dirt bike for a change. Must be some good deals on road bikes this time of year.

Sup Joe I'm a long time subscriber ever since you where working out of your parents place making videos with Chuck I rarely ever comment on your videos but I just wanted to say I'm very proud of how far you have come congratulations you deserve it all the hard work paid off

How bloody hot did it get to melt the dipstick and crank sensor, thats mental

Whether a snow machine, sled, snowmobile, or money pit, that one is in good condition. Another learning moment

Let me answer a few questions here as this was my girlfriends sled. We were about 10mi in at a 90mph poke down a railroad grade. She pulled up next to me and said she smelled something burning and the overheat light was flashing. I hopped on, pulled it over and shut it off. Why the sled never shut off on its own is beyond me. Further inspection showed it launched a stud through the front heat exchanger. Joe said its good that the oil wasn't milky? Well...there was no coolant to transfer to the oil as she was run dry. And it hasn't started since I band-aided the heat exchanger and changed the oil.

@nicolecittadini4234

5 ай бұрын

I guess who cares it’s his problem now,lol

@763GanderGuys

5 ай бұрын

First thing I thought was “well there probably wasn’t any coolant left to go into the oil”

@thegasgeezer

5 ай бұрын

So head or gasket could have gone??

@nicolecittadini4234

5 ай бұрын

@@thegasgeezer yeah he changed the oil and hasn’t run since

@mikewithers299

5 ай бұрын

​@thegasgeezer my thoughts too. I've lost a few head gaskets to overheating. It was probably a good thing the coolant ran out before it got inside the engine. But I've flushed that out with no issues too.

It’s crazy what it costs for new sleds these days . There are some bargains out there on some low mileage sleds . Especially if you can fix things yourself .

10k miles is nothing for these. The 4cyl is based on R1 motorcycle engine. 30k miles is easily doable. I've owned 6 of these. They are heavy for a sled but for a trial sled and or lake sled. They are great. Reliability is probably among the highest of any sled.

I surely hope people aren't spending $7000-$8000 on an apex lol

@Xpomocoma202

5 ай бұрын

I’ve seen sidewinders and vipers for 8000-9000, and with the amount of snow this year I bet there is some for less.

@superjuggie14

5 ай бұрын

@@Xpomocoma202 I couldn't get more than $6000 for my m1100 cat turbo with 20K of mods on it.. This is the yesr for someone to buy a sled that's for sure

@syitiger9072

3 ай бұрын

Back in the day

That many wires and hoses would give me anxiety to work on...😅

That’s maybe a $4k sled running good. You finally dipped into my world. I’ve done a few of these old Yamaha 4 strokes. I kept an 03 RX-1. 10k miles is nothing on these sleds. They are a completely different machine than most of what I’ve watched you work on. I’ll comment more when I’m done with the video.

WOW, YOU TOOK MY ADVICE JOE, IT'LL BE Really a CRAZY AWSOME DEAL FOR YOU, HAPPY NEW YEAR JOE!!!😊

Always wanted a go on one of those , we don't get enough snow these winters

I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.

Itll provide tons of content which gives it value right away. This is worthy of the time spent on ranger side by side. Do you have the guts to do a 100 mph+ top speed run? Chuck'll do it 😅 . Even if you put 2k in parts and it sells fer 5k yer still golden. Nice buy!!!

I've got this same sled only a year older & had a small problem getting fuel to one injector because the wiring to it rubbed through inside the harness along the frame. You can pull the codes off this thing pretty easily with the dash & also run tests off it too. Typically, when they get hot, they'll shut themselves down but are supposed to do it long before any damage gets too far.

Im not a small engine mechanic but ive been an auto tech for 25 years and honda/yamahas will take out all the coils when one shorts . I would also recommend changing that cmp sensor even if the sled runs after the coils that sensor could do damage. Love the videos .

3 minutes in, that thing sis beautiful! It is very new but combustion is combustion. You'll figure it out, it sounds like it got VERY hot under there.. heat can be dealt with.. we've all been down that road before. I can't wait to see how it goes!! Thanks Joe, I think this is a score!

Battery is in the lower nose of the sled. They have lines up to the right side from factory as a jump point.

I used to let my buddy keep his RX1 at my place. I did all the maintenance on it for him. Great machines. That must have gotten seriously hot to melt those components. Hopefully it's just an electrical fix that's needed.

@johnb5519

5 ай бұрын

What are you talking about, he already checked the compression, and it was good. What do you think I am, a punk like you.

@johnb5519

5 ай бұрын

He already checked the compression and it was good.@@mostlymotorized

@johnb5519

5 ай бұрын

Well if need be he'll have to tear it down.

@robertdavis6708

5 ай бұрын

Load the low compression cylinder overnight with Sea Foam and let it sit. I've had success a few times regaining compression.@@johnb5519

Just finished watching. Not good in the compression. The early versions of these engines did have problems with sticking rings, oil burning and carbon. But they were carbureted and run richer than EFI. Also the rings were low tension rings that kinda compounded the problem. Decarbonizing and semi synthetic versus full synthetic usually cure the oil usage. Maybe you’ll get lucky. My concern is the heat that the engine has seen. There’s a chance that the rings may have completely lost tension or have scored the cylinder walls and piston from expansion. These are high performance engines and not a trivial rebuild. The engines turn 10,500 rpm and need to be able to live all day long up there or close. Have you ever rebuilt auto racing engines? Balancing is critical to make power and keep it together. Thanks and good luck. You also really need to get that camshaft position sensor replaced. Just because there is spark doesn’t mean it’s at the right time. Probably why you aren’t getting any fire at all. These engines are also much more work to get out and put back in than 2 stroke sleds. The manuals are easy to find in the web and you are gonna need one. Things really need to be done right on these sleds. I have seen complete running engines in eBay for maybe $1500. Rebuilds aren’t cheap unless you get lucky with the bottom end. But if you need to replace anything in the rotating assembly the entire bottom end needs to be checked balance. There are tricks weighing and matching parts if you want to risk not doing a full bottom end.

@ni_wink84

5 ай бұрын

Definitely agree with your statement about the rings losing tension due to heat, I bet that’s probably one of many issue with this thing, also I’m pretty sure he didn’t even have the coils on the correct cylinders. He’s not a multi cylinder guy… that firing order thing is tricky for the single cylinder folks 😂

@Loibip21

5 ай бұрын

@@ni_wink84We’ll see…he has a knack for making lemonade out of lemons. 🍋✌️

I would read some of your followers' comments before spending few hundred dollars on coils, just to burn them up again, after riding the machine for few hours. Might be a good idea to pull engine and investigate further. I already know that you have a good idea that its cylinder two, by testing compression. BTW If the sensor has melted, it's not going to work properly. That would be a good reason why the engine wouldn't fire up! Always fun watching your programs

I mean over 10k miles on a snow sled might be quite a few but with the condition it looks to be in, other than whatever the reason for it not running, the old owner obviously took great care of it. Really looks like it's in great condition, the body work and all that we could see from the video looks nearly mint for the age etc. Guessing the last owner was one of those rare people that truly keeps on top of all that needed doing and really cared for his vehicle. Bet he even changed the oil and either got the general servicing that's recommended done or done did it himself, probably the second option from what you said he did when it first had it's issues etc. Recon if/when you find out the problem and can fix it you've definitely scored a bargain as it'll be a 2nd hand sled that you can sell as high quality.

@joerutkowsky3261

5 ай бұрын

10’000miles is nothing for a four stroke. My manual says first valve service is at 50’000km. I have seen this sled have 80’000 km on them and still running great.

@itarry4

5 ай бұрын

@@joerutkowsky3261 I mean yhea when he said "it was a fair few" I thought it sounded a bit odd but I know nothing about these vehicles and whilst I knew it wouldn't be an issue for most 4 stroke engines on other vehicles wasn't sure if the way the engine is used or something with the conditions they're run in might make a difference in snow sleds. I'm English so haven't even seen one first hand let alone rode or starting to understand the various differences it might make to an engine etc. Thx for letting me know it basically makes no difference that it's running in a snow sled, even if it's not really ever going to be useful for me to know I always love learning anything new.

@Chris_at_Home

5 ай бұрын

It was probably run on groomed trails too. As heavy as this sled is I sure wouldn’t take it boon docking.

@Chris_at_Home

5 ай бұрын

@@joerutkowsky3261I’ve seen fan cooled 2 stroke sleds with close to 20,000 miles.

@mikewilson7132

5 ай бұрын

itsa 4 stroke 10k is nothing on that motor

Do you know how much I wanted a sled video from you bro this is gonna be sick

Looks like this one is going to test your metal for sure. 🙏🏼✨

Hopefully it’s something simple, try looking down cylinder 4 with a borescope make sure that piston didn’t over heat. Might do more damage if the rings are welded to piston when you do start it up trying to loosen up the rings. Keep up the great work/videos.

Awesome video man. Can't wait to see the end results. An inline 4 cylinder in a snow mobile heck yeah. I bet it's super fun to ride one.

Great way to start off the week , Thanks Joe

Joe get yourself a set of surgical hemostats 12inch and 15inch work great for grabbing things. The 6 to 8inch work well for holding things. I recommend getting one of each

Do you ever check to make sure the gaps on the spark plugs are within tolerance? It looked like a couple of those plugs had bigger than normal gaps. 🤷‍♂️

fingers crossed on this one. So much tighter working space on this than anything else I have seen you work on.

@mikewithers299

5 ай бұрын

I was looking at that too! No way I could work on that sled with my big hands.

Enjoy all your videos.. That thing a a complicated nightmare .. My old Ski-Doo 440 2stroke.. fix it with a screw driver and an adjustable wrench! So simple.. Cant wait to see what you find else is wrong.

I’ve been watching your videos and I’m glad to see a man who will use any tool at hand to do the job 👍

Wow that's one hot Yomoma there!! Those 4-stroker sleds have turned into space shuttles.

boy, sure got a lot of patience doing your work on these engines.....my main tool would be a sledge hammer......lol

@bobclarke2705

5 ай бұрын

I wqouldnt bother with a sledge hammer Id just scrap it, why waste energy on it>

I can't believe how little you swear while wrenching. Amazing 👏.

I know you will fix it and it will be time well spent as you will have one nice sled for the winter. And that last cylinder coming around is a GOOD sign

I look forward to seeing what would cause the electrical meltdown.

Wow! That engine was Hot! Hot! Hot! Never have seen items melt like that unless there had been a fire. but, Good Content though. Keeps all of us Dreamers Glued to the Screen!

Would it be of interest that maybe before installing coils and sparkplugs to apply Dielectric grease to keep them from the seizing and braking them again for ease to remove them ever again... I'm not a mechanic but I do that to sparkplug boots.

Joe, if you at some time want to put 30lbs of Tannerite under something you bought and make it go away out in your field we will understand! The best thing I got out of this is trying to make my Cat 570F Panther go forever!! 🤣🤣

Worst case scenario you get 1/3 of your money back just selling the fox dampers alone

@oldjarhead386

5 ай бұрын

How much you want Joe?

Great job and content! Very educational.

Yammy HAAAAAA !! are excellent sleds!!To bad they are being discontinued!!!!! They were always more expensive but they are sturdy!!!! Well done!!!

10k miles is alot but those yamaha 4 strokes are known to go for along time! Guys out west are tuning them 200+hp and riding in the mountains and getting 10,000 kms on stock engines and they r still runnin strong. You could definitely hear that 1 cylinder was low when u were turning it over.

Nice to see a sled on the channel! If you ever need a sled project, you know who to talk to lol

Hey bud. To me it sounds like the last cylinder is flat. I agree a ring could be stuck. But if it over heated the piston could be warped.

@bradenwuesthoff5639

5 ай бұрын

Yes I noticed that also as soon as he started cranking it over

Wow beautiful snowmobile it’s funny I talked about those a lot and you found one

Unbelievable what people think these sleds are worth, there is a difference between what people are asking and what they actually sell for.

@beebop4333

5 ай бұрын

Like the people who have a nice car, boat, snow machine, etc but leave it outside rusting to nothing for 15 yrs then wont part w it for years but eventually will try to sell it for full current retail bc its in good shape...lol

@Chris_at_Home

5 ай бұрын

@@beebop4333I’ve found the more you use them the less problems arise from dried seals, critter damage etc. Maintenance still needs to be performed. My last machine was a 2000 and I put close to 8,000 miles on it and it never let me down. I gave it to the neighbor family 10 years ago and they still ride it. I also used it to tow well over 10,000 pounds to a remote cabin site.

@scottw2157

5 ай бұрын

Actually 7k isn't out of the ballpark. A new one same caliber by any manufacturer is around 20k ish

@alanrichardson1672

5 ай бұрын

Give it a little ether

@Chris_at_Home

5 ай бұрын

@@alanrichardson1672 Never use ether. It drys everything out. It should only be used in diesels. I have used WD-40 or just use gas.

Homie has a raspy voice today I kept thinking if I was there I would have said clear your throat bro .but I always love seeing what he picks up I like how he doesn't have preferences he's just looking for a good deal

Looks to be a great buy, if you can get it running with a little time and effort.

Considering that this week is gonna be great for lots of snow, perfect timing. Hopefully you can finish it soon.

I needed this today. I have a terrible case of the Monday's and nothing is a better remedy than a @2vintage vid drop!

I have a 2011 Apex with 20 Thousand miles and it still tuns great! I don't stud my Track for this very reason! It happened to my riding buddy with his Sidewinder (Stud through the Heat Exchanger) and the engine was toast, and many others that i know of!

glad you are working on some EFI stuff

I don't know much about mechanics, but after 4 or 5 of your videos I know way more!

Awesome, luv the content, someday hope to fix on bikes as a hobby

Shit that things awesome Joe. Those fox shox are 1500 - 2 grand easy man. You get it running youll have a kick ass winter time sled man!.

Best off finding a new motor IMO. Genius move getting them parts out.

You have amazed me you are willing to take these vehicles aprt and rebuild the engine if you have to even if you rely don't want to ad it pays off in the end for you

Check those sensors... Crank sensor/Cam sensor I cant see all the coils gone bad at the same time. its not even trying to fire

5:40 It almost sounded like low compression on one of the cylinders when ya were cranking it.

@eddiereichel9354

5 ай бұрын

Yeah I thought I head it...I have an auto shop and fix shit dealers around me cant. When I have a misfire the first thing I do is "clear flood" which means hold the accelerator to 100% then crank engine over. This works on like 80% of vehciles some dont do it. But it cranks engine without firing injectors so ya can listen for changes in cranking sound.

@oldjarhead386

5 ай бұрын

@@eddiereichel9354 it’s got the gallop.

@davidsilbernagel785

5 ай бұрын

I knew it right away when he first cranked it that it had a low cylinder. That is the first test I do on a car engine when I want to check it out. You can hear a 30 lb difference in compression while cranking a engine over when it is disabled from starting.

@eddiereichel9354

5 ай бұрын

I have an oscilliscope and the very next test would have been Relative compression. It uses the current draw of the starter to show each compression event. Run a lead to one of the coils to get ignition input and ya can figure out which cylinder it is with the firing order. Dont even really have to remove anything except to ge to battery cable and or coil.@@davidsilbernagel785

Although new to you, and your determination.. you'll get her figured out:) can't wait

That thing is gonna be a rocket when you finally get it going. Good buy.

Im wondering how the 68 Ski Daddler is doing?

Hey Joe. Try and be a little quicker getting this next video up cause you have a newer Faster Sled really Anxious to see this MACHINE do it's thing out and about on The Fast Tracks 👣 👣 😊

Would you make a video on how you get your bikes and your process of knowing if it’s a bike to buy or not. I’m very intrigued on your work, and I think it’s very fascinating and I would like to do something like that myself. So if you would like to can you make a video it would help me out.

Cool video looking forward to part 2

I would proceed with caution with this one, if plastic has meted in the oil, it will have been pumped through the oilways inside the engine, and may lead to a future catastrophic failure. I speak from experience here, my cx500 seized after I'd just overtaken a truck at 70mph, I'd somewhat foolishly replaced a lost dipstick with what I could find at the side of the road, a piece of polystyrene [ I know, what an idiot] which promptly melted a little and found it's way into the crankshaft oilway. A [very] near death moment I didn't need. Good luck.

Sled with 10000 miles equals full rebuild. $1200 was about right.

Awesome content as always. Yamaha nytro next?

Great video, was that a spare drive belt strapped to the front left side of the ski ??👍

Im so impatient now waiting for the 2nd video!

@2vintage

5 ай бұрын

I'm posting it in 10 minutes!

I love your videos Joe!

Put a couple of strips of pick-up truck bed liner on your ramp where the skis run. It will make loads and un-loads much easier.

Cylinder 1 is the problem if it's not getting the same compression as the other the ecu will do dumb shit that's why it was hat because it was running lean and probably a lot more but i know you will do your research and figure it out buddy and it's a beautiful sled

Saw a good tip to fix a floppy socket/hex u-joint , just heat shrink them and they’ll be flexible not floppy plus you need to find a mechanical mule to add to your collection

@nicolecittadini4234

5 ай бұрын

I have one Too buy good tools, he has not one quality tool. Nothing but harbor freight junk

wow apparently the previous owner is one of those guys that pays zero attention to the gauges and just turns the key and goes🙄

@EYECOMEINPEACE

5 ай бұрын

No temp gauge on the apex...just a little temp light thats either on or off.

@user-rp3ev5kz2o

5 ай бұрын

His girlfriend was riding it. Explains it all

@EYECOMEINPEACE

5 ай бұрын

@@user-rp3ev5kz2o I missed that part lol. There ya go. "I don't know what happened it was fine then just shut off "

@Vince-lq3ve

4 ай бұрын

@@EYECOMEINPEACE Actually in her defense, according to the comments from the owner, girlfriend stopped as the light was flashing but the machine was still running. He then turned it off and it never ran again. I'm surprised it didn't auto stop or go into limp mode or something..

When checking for spark it looked like it wasn't getting a good spark very intermittent.

Is it still worth $7K with 10K miles? Hard to believe.

If it runs like my friends rx1 you're in for a treat lots of power 😊

Man you have to make sure everything is in working order and do you have to pull the break lever for it to start or replace the burnt sensor on the valve cover

Looks like another GREAT BUY, good-looking sled. Keep up the hard work. Subs are skyrocketing due to 2Vinny's hard work

In my experience with those sleds if that got that hot good luck!!!

i had older snow jet with yamaha & boat motors if over heated the main mechanic told me coils toast it stop running in mercury out board a crank trigger thing ware out in like 10 years change it it runs fine then! my snow machine i gave 50 dollars & got a junk sled it ran with TLC & new plugs & steel roofing & fiber glass & hood repair & paint i sold it for 75 after years of use!

its a different kind of heavy. really heavy, but it will burn down a railroad grade like a rocket ship ! good luck joe get her going!

joe if you listen to it crank you could hear it go fast on one cylinder which is a dead hole. tip for next time you work on a multi cylinder engine

Goodluck bro. Nice machine when u get it dialed in

not a good idea to buy anything thats been that hot

Really enjoy your videos

I have the same sled. Fast but they are heavy tanks! Expensive to rebuild though. Your battery seems really weak. Should turn over a lot quicker.

Nice work 😊😊😊😊😊

If you fix it, then you can't call yourself 2vintage anymore 😅 12:08

I didn't see a very convincing spark. Even yellowish sometimes. But maybe that was just in the moment when it wasn't grounding well, donnow.