Wow, what a difference between the two devices! I bought a Dwarf II right at the beginning of the year, but didn't receive it until April. To be honest, I wasn't too impressed with it. The app was temperamental and difficult to use, and the resulting images were small and grainy. Fortunately, I was able to sell it on a few months later for just a small loss on what I originally paid for it. The Seestar S50 on the other hand looks to be a huge improvement - easy to use and able to capture large, sharp images. After I sold my Dwarf II I lost interest in these kind of devices, but the Seestar S50, thanks to this video has just rekindled it. This was an excellent and in depth review of both devices, thank you.

This is the comprehensive comparison I have been looking for. Thanks for putting this together.

Thank you for the video. I have both scopes. Especially for beginners, the Seestar is far superior. As shown in your video, the calibration procedure, and the app in general, is finicky and inconsistent. Each time, the Seestar worked perfectly for me. Also, often a Dwarf II user needs 10 minutes (!) before viewing to capture dark frames. The Seestar takes one minute. For most objects, the narrower field of view of the Seestar is advantageous. ZWO is an astro photography company, the company who makes the Dwarf was more of a photography oriented company to start. ZWO has created my “best” EAA scope, and I have the Unistellar too. (Reposted: ETS cancelled.)

One important thing to note - on the Dwarf II, it’s possible to turn off binning in the app for normal photo mode, meaning you’re essentially doubling the resolution. This means you can get photos of the moon and sun that are much closer to the resolution you can get with the Seestar S50. Otherwise, a good and thorough comparison video.

@MarkManner

6 ай бұрын

Changing the binning doesn't alter the difference in aperture between the two systems, which governs angular resolution of the system. Changing the binning just changes the image scale per pixel. It may help a bit, but the actual resolving power of the Seestar is higher than the Dwarf. The larger aperture area of the Seestar also gathers significantly more light (4x as much).

Ended up buying the dwarf 2 as more portable (ca 1 kg vs 2.5) and with a larger field of view needed for comet capture. The decision was also influenced by the aspect that I already own a proper telescope for high res pictures so I wanted something else and very different. Nice review!

Thank you for this video! My Seestar arrived yesterday and it has already impressed me a lot. Note that they issued a new firmware just yesterday that adds a slew speed chooser, which makes slewing to find things a bit easier.

@AstroForumSpace

7 ай бұрын

Yes, i gave them that feedback about a month ago. They are very fast at implementing updates at zwo.

This is a brilliant video, Wido, thank you. The Seestar would be my choice based on the simplicity of use and fantastic solar spot images. As I have just retired, it's a really good instrument for me to get back into astronomy. 😎

I just got into this hobby a few weeks ago. while I was searching best telescopes to get and watching a ton of videos and reviews, I went with a 6se scope. I like goto functionality but then realized I wanted to hook up my dslr to it for astro. After more numerous videos and seeing that it takes a whole lot more $ to get into this hobby, I kinda wished I opted for a s50. I really want to do some dsp but do not have the equipment, money or knowledge to get results quick. I tend to get into things on impulse and realize you need a lot of patience. great reviews on both devices. one of the items would be a good choice before you go for a big scope. It is very frustrating at first and you want to make sure you still have an interest in the hobby.

Great overview of both smart telescopes!

Great overview. Given that these are effectively first generation smart telescopes, it will be fascinating to see what becomes available over the next few years.

@simulatedpilot3441

6 ай бұрын

Yeah it's going to annoy me because I won't be able to validate buying another one

So, what I’m getting is that the Seestarr is a telescope with a camera and the Dwarf is a camera with another camera.

@hunter133official

4 ай бұрын

The Dwarf II is more like a telephoto lens with a camera.

@icecold5920

3 ай бұрын

What . both have cameras

Thank you for your demonstration of both scopes. I learned a lot from this video as I have the Dwarf 2 telescope. I haven't done to much with it as I am testing certain features of filters attached to the scope. Thank you so much for the comparison test. We subscribed and liked your video! Thanks. Ron & Maryellen 👥

Wonderful information and thank you for the insights. Looking forward to learning more about astorphotography in the near future and which set up to purchase.

Really enjoyed this video. You're truly an inspiration!

The Seestarr S50 will be getting a Mozaic mode to produce wide-field images! So, don't be put-off by its present portrait mode. I like the Seestar because it is easier to use, and has sharper and more accurate image than the Dwarf. I ordered my Seestar and can't wait to get started! Your great reviews are very clear to understand and most friendly and unbiased! Thank you!!

@TemporalTegu

7 ай бұрын

Portrait only was my biggest concern about the Seestar so a Mosaic Mode would be amazing, I've heard some rumours about it but couldn't find anything official, do you know if ZWO have confirmed it? And if so please could you link me to it? Thank you

@xxGmon3yxx

7 ай бұрын

​@@TemporalTeguI'm also waiting for confirmation on this to pull the trigger.

@AstroForumSpace

7 ай бұрын

They're working on it, but it is difficult to implement and it will take some time before this feature will be released.

@hunter133official

5 ай бұрын

and this is why i'm buying the seestar

@StringrPress

3 ай бұрын

I surprised that they adding a mosaic features to the Seestar. I can't wait. That add much value for your money.

Thanks for reviewing Wido. 👍👍

Well done and very helpful. Thank you!

So this is the new entrance to the astrophotography rabbit hole, lol. Great review.

I'm patiently waiting for the "next generation" when they will cram inside some nikon p1000-like zoom lens so to be able to take pictures of the planets and outstanding pictures of the moon.

Thank you for the great comparison Wido! I just ordered the Dwarf 2 with you discount code during the Black Friday sale here in the US. I ordered all the accessories except for the 3 filters in the deluxe package and you discount was applied directly to the telescope only. Order this while you can, since Wido's discount takes about $18.36 USD off the cam's price at 367.20 at the moment.

Great review of both telescopes! I have the Dwarf II because of 1) its incredibly small size 2) I already have two reflectors for planetary observations 3) and I already own several quality 1.25” filters which fit the Dwarf nicely. I also like the replaceable battery and SD card of the Dwarf, so very easy to upgrade to a larger SD card or have more memory on hand. You can also polar align the Dwarf to help with field rotation. I’ve had zero issues with calibration or plate solving, plus I love that you can manually rotate both the base and the lens assembly by hand along with slewing on the app to put it exactly where you want it. Seems to me you have to tweak the Dwarf more like an actual camera than the Seestar, which seems to be more point and shoot, which is pretty awesome. From where I’m sitting the Dwarf II has the more flexible hardware while the Seestar has the more flexible software. I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice and there are several people that own both, but I’m going to hold off with purchasing the Seestar because I don’t need yet another telescope (maybe I do!) that does basically the same thing as the Dwarf. I will say that a really big advantage goes to ZWO for their very nice and tidy app and interface, and if Dwarf Lab wants to stay in the game then a software upgrade is sorely needed (they say one is coming before the end of November). A well taken point is the longevity of these scopes, I’ve already taken the Dwarf on several camping trips and have used it for hours at a time with zero issues, and I plan on taking it to Europe next year cause it’s so darned small, so we shall see just how long it lasts. I find it to be a well built piece of kit, its had a fair share of knocking about with camping and hiking with no issues. Yet. Bottom line is you can’t go wrong with either one, just research and get the one that’s more suited to your lifestyle.

@dannymartinez3600

6 ай бұрын

Hello, you mentioned the dwarf having more flexible hardware. Would you be able to elaborate? I’m looking to purchase a smart telescope and these two seem to be at the top. I’m looking for something that takes good images and is relatively easy to setup. But I do want flexibility, as much as can be reasonable expected. Any insight is appreciated

@huuing

6 ай бұрын

@@dannymartinez3600 - the Dwarf II telescope can be manually polar aligned to help avoid field rotation whereas the Seestar cannot.

@dannymartinez3600

6 ай бұрын

@@huuing thanks. I was aware of the ability to polar align the Dwarf II. Just wasn’t sure if there were other hardware advantages. It seems they are both capable unit that excel in their particular strength. Dwarf is a highly portable until for wide FOV shots with ability to PA while the Seestar has perhaps a better app, higher aperture and image quality on a narrower field of view (with more field rotation). I’m sort of tempted to get both.

I been looking at these for a while now. I decided on the Seestar

Absolutely enjoyed this video. I was leaning towards DwarfLab 2 after I met a gentleman from Canada in Lake Tekapo last month using it. He explained the features very nicely as well. But after seeing this video , i will wait for some time and check out the updates being made in the software by both and then decide. Aperture wise and curren app features wise, Seestar seems to be in the front for now. Thanks again for this video

@AstroForumSpace

5 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! I'm testing a beta version of the dwarflab app v2.0. It improved a lot. Will be released in 2024.

@maheshnawani5957

5 ай бұрын

@@AstroForumSpace - Do you have any update on the outcome of the testing the beta version of dwarflab app v2.0?

Excellent comparison as always!

You did a fantastic job. The Seestar s50 in the area of resolution blows away the Dwarf II Smart Telescope so badly. This is important with all objects and not just the Andromeda galaxy. True the galaxy is too big for the S50. But here is everything else of course. :)

Thank You! From Frisco, TX.

Thanks for the great comparison video! 👍 I didn't hesitate for long and chose the Seestar. In my opinion, it offers a better price-performance ratio, even compared to other telescopes with the same sensor and additional features. I have a Nikon P900 and originally planned to upgrade to the P1000, but when I saw the Seestar, I thought I'd keep the P900 and get the Seestar as well. 😬

Great review of both products. I bought the Dwarf II before the SeeStar came out. I’m still happy I have the D2. It does a great job of finding deep sky objects and I am enjoying using it. I think I will skip the SeeStar for my next scope and commit by moving to the Vespera. So called “Smart” astronomy is a needed and useful way in for new people who are interested in and hope to dive deeper into astronomy.

The difference in clarity between them in the Sun and Moon shots is startling. The Seestar is much sharper, no doubt due to the much greater aperture.

I've had experience with both telescopes, and I much prefer the Dwarf II. It's smaller, has a replaceable SD Card, and much better for terrestrial photography. The ability to switch between the two cameras is wonderful and makes targeting objects much easier. I really like the fact it has a wide angle lens. I've had trouble (as you've mentioned) trying to image various deep-sky objects, with the Seestar S50. Imo, Dwarf II is more suitable for my needs, however both telescopes are fantastic. Only issue I have with the Dwarf II are the filters (as you've mentioned), and Solar and Lunar photography is generally awful imo.

I ordered the Seestar because of its higher resolution, has a telescope lens, portrait won't count with mosaic and it is so much more user friendly.

27:20 The amount of hot pixels on the Dwarf II's sensor is horrendous.

An excellent and thorough comparison. Thank you!

Has anyone used these in the southern hemisphere? Also, would a magnifying filter increase the focal length without losing too much clarity? I'm guessing that such a filter would probably break the finder algorithms?

Great video Wido. I learn so much from you. Currently the Dwarf 2 resolution is limited in astro mode because it uses 2x2 binning - basically makes the pixel the same size as the seestar. Therefore, when you zoom in the image is blocky. I noticed that too with the solar images. I turn off the binning in my solar imaging. The resolution is much better. Turning off binning in astro mode is not available in the current dwarf software.

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

Thanks! I just received an e-mail from DWARFlab that they are testing a software update, I'll check it out.

Wow! Thanks for this! I was thinking about the Dwarf II... not anymore. The Seestar has infinitely superior resolution. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why would the Seestar engineers only allow the user to shoot in portrait mode? Why not design the lens to rotate and shoot in landscape?

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

In space, it doesn't matter that much. Some objects frame better in portrait mode, others in landscape. It also changes during the night, for telescopes with alt-az tracking.

Thank you so much for this.I also have both and find the SS50 much easier to use,the software/firmware updates for the SS50 leave the Dwarf miles behind

@r24044

6 ай бұрын

For the scope itself, I like Dwarf2. For the software, ZWO has done much much better than Dwarflab for these 2 telescopes. I have both telescopes for different targets.

I went with the Seestar

Very nice 👍

I believe I will try the dwarf 2 also. My Seestar would not connect to the internet. But I am sure it would be fine if I could have got it working. I like the app.

How much water resistance does it have? Some nights get very dewy and it sticks to everything. Great video

@AstroForumSpace

2 ай бұрын

The seestar has a built-in dew heater.

Does the S50 have similar power of a good pair of binoculars. How good is at looking at planets? Thanks

@MrAwol007

3 ай бұрын

It best for dso planets are not that good

@n1kkri

3 ай бұрын

@@MrAwol007Thank you for your reply.

Is it practical to convert an old 8” Celestron telescope into a smart Telescope? Are there kits to do that? I like the Seestar S50 features and functionality, but it would be great to have that with larger telescope.

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

The asiair could be an option for you: astroforumspace.com/zwo-asiair-plus-vs-mini-pc-a-comprehensive-comparison/

If a person wanted to use smart scope to also capture images of the milky way band, would either of these be able to accommodate that?

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

I'd use a widefield lens and a camera for the milkyway. You could also consider a star tracker like these: astroforumspace.com/best-star-trackers-for-astrophotography-in-2023/

Great review Wido, couldn’t get my hands on a S50 so I bought the D2. Still satisfied and hopefully the new software release of the D2 will close the gap with the S50…..it’s tempting to buy the refined S50 but up till now the D2 is good enough for my gazing.

Are the Dwarf II filters threaded Wido?

@AstroForumSpace

7 ай бұрын

Yes, 1.25" threaded

Hoe sla je de bestanden op, via de usb van de Seestar uitgang of door de telefoon?

@AstroForumSpace

5 ай бұрын

Beiden. Mp4 videos en jpg op je telefoon. RAW video en 16-bit TIFF foto's op de seestar die je met wen usb kabel aansluit op je laptop/computer.

The new dwarf 2.0 update is released can you make an update video?

@AstroForumSpace

5 ай бұрын

Yes! But never ending clouds in NW Europe atm...

Can anyone tell me if we would be buying a telescope or just a sophisticated and an all inclusive app. I am very suspicious about all this.

@AstroForumSpace

3 ай бұрын

It's a real telescope with real pictures.

For Seestar 50 could Andromeda be assembled like a panorama photo?

@AstroForumSpace

4 ай бұрын

No, the seestar doesn't have a panorama option. Not yet.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the point of taking a 1 minute video of the galaxy vs a single picture? Is that primarily for creating a stacked photo?

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

The videos are the 10s pictures I took in 25fps format, so you can see the actual field rotation.

hallo, ich habe den dwarf 2 seit etwas längere zeit, wohne in bremen germany, hab hier ein bortle 7-8,mache aber mit dem zwerg super erfahrung,und di das neue upgrade von d2 ist super,hat sich um 100 prozent gesteigert,service 1 a,ich denke mal dwarlab wird noch einenen drauflegen in sachen astrofotographie,ich liebe dieses gerät, und danke für dein super klasse video

Well done. Thank you.

can i mount my DSLM on the Dwarf? so i dont have to do the polar aliment and use it as a equator .....

How about one that can take camera lenses, now that would be incredible.

In Europe, the seestar is priced at 699€ (France)…

Both of these telescopes are insane when you think that these images are captured from an urban setting. Holy crap! And the convenience factor is wonderful. Seems like the sea star is currently the winner for astrophotography, but the dwarf is probably better for universal/ Astro/wildlife & scenery. photography.

I honestly just think the images are generated based off the GPS coordinates transmitted from the device. I just don’t understand how those tiny ass cameras are projecting far enough to get crystal clear images 1000’s of light years away.

@AstroForumSpace

5 ай бұрын

I can assure you thise images are really live photos from the telescope.

Nice but small tripod

@DanNav82

5 ай бұрын

I researched this very thing and the SeeStar has a standard 3/4" tripod connection point. You can connect it to any 3/4" tripod mount.

Well it is not 500 $ if you import it to europe. There is something like toll people seem to forget about. :) And in my case it was around 120$.

@AstroForumSpace

4 ай бұрын

21% import tax. Still much cheaper than the 799 asked by some eu vendors.

Yes its 499$ overseas but you forget that we Europeans have to pay hefty import and taxes as soon it reaches the border. In the end it saves a couple bucks ordering from ZWO but its a hassle when we need warranty support from a company in china.

I think the problem with both is the low resolution of the sensor.

@AstroForumSpace

5 ай бұрын

It's all about aperture and image scale in astrophotography, not (just) resolution

Andromeda does not appear 6 times larger than the moon...where are you viewing it from?

@AstroForumSpace

6 ай бұрын

calvin.edu/observatory/astrophotography/galaxies/the-andromeda-galaxy/index.html

@bobmusil1458

6 ай бұрын

It does not matter where you are viewing it from

The dwarf is better simply for the folowing reasons, It has a usable focal length it doesnt crop stuff, it also tracks and keeps up with movement its not alt azimuth like the S50 so no star trails and the app is vastly better. Seestar Dropped the ball on everything minus the sensor being better.

Dwarf output looks like complete garbage against Seestar.

i am bying the dwarf in june 2024

@kenttormanen63

5 ай бұрын

So sorry for you.

these so called smart telescope 's image is not real; it's AI-complemented

Toys

Those are just expensive toys, 50mm it's a joke. I feel like those kind of things can appeal only people who know nothing about astronomy and don't want to really go through knowing any of it, like actually studying and understanding the night sky, knowing how to locate objects, understand what they're looking at, how to setup a telescope and why you do specific things and they don't care about image quality or anything. Overall they're short lived things that will see the light a couple of times because of curiosity and that will be the end of them because you'll get bored of how limited they are. IMHO Just get a proper real telescope, in the used market you can find very nice deals.

@soberken

6 ай бұрын

Wow, what an elitist comment. Glad you are not in our astronomy club. Beginners of all types with any type of equipment are welcome.

@___NG___

6 ай бұрын

This comment only shows your lack of knowledge. For example dont assume small aperature as a joke because for astrophotography smaller aperature is much more important because it gets you a bigger field of view for huge targets like nebulae.

@gabrielex

5 ай бұрын

@@___NG___ Smaller aperture does not give you a wider field of view, don't confuse aperture with focal length, you can still get a telescope with large aperture and short focal length. Smaller aperture means less resolving power, and less light gathering power, this translates into way lower resolution and also not being able to see faint objects.

@gabrielex

5 ай бұрын

@@soberken Elitist? This toy is expensive! You could get a much better telescope for the same price...or less!

@soberken

5 ай бұрын

If you are talking about just a telescope for visual, then yes I agree with you. But the purpose of the Seestar is AP. If you can show where we can buy a telescope, tracking mount and camera for under.$500, many of us would like that information. Since that answer will not be forthcoming, I will end this conversation. Thank you for the spirited discussion. Have a great holiday season. Peace and clear skies. Ken