“I know it sounds crazy, but indexed shifting on the chainstay allows you to shift effortlessly with a flick of your heel while drastically reducing the length and total friction of the cables.” - Russ, circa 2025

@breth8159

Жыл бұрын

I'm working on psychic shifting no electronics no cables no hydraulics . I'm also trying to get the Vulcan mind mel down!

@EMTBonsai

Ай бұрын

Yep sure does sound it! Haha. What effort have you to flick a lever with your finger to the energy used and loss of focus on a road to heel shift? I can see you in the ER soon

@t3g3b3

2 күн бұрын

There are geared unicycles that have a button in the middle of the crank you can flick with your heel to shift

I feel Big Friction's greasy fingers all over this. Honestly though. Your friction shifter video make riding 3 by anything fun again. It's amazing. Like..how it probably used and should be.

@pratikpramanik7782

2 жыл бұрын

Big Friction Shill shirt when???

@uniworkhorse

Жыл бұрын

Big friction has eyes everywhere, we might be in danger

"Big Friction" writing those cheques 😂

I remember people doing this in the 90s. Pretty sure Greg Herbold was among them and running thumbless under the bar is what led to Shimano developing Rapidfire.

I've been using that position with my front derailleur. Got a regular 10 speed rapidfire shifter for the back and friction for the front. Been rock solid!

@EMTBonsai

Ай бұрын

That's the the way to do it rapid fire shifter non this absolutely nonsense 😂

Making thumbies greater again this is sweet. Fun winter project list item right here.

Nice! Glad you discovered this old trick. We would do the same thing when installing drop bars on mtbs back in the 80s-90s. For drops u could mount them slighty below the brake levers on the inboard side and for normal flat/riser bars it also allows flipping the bike upside down for field repairs and not scratching/damaging the shifters. About to do this same setup on my drops mounting the shifters underneath and up near the stem. 31.8 shifter mounts are now available. Better than bar-end shifters that break if/when the bike is dropped. Solid oldschool hack before they called things a hack

@nofahz

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I did this in the late 80s as well for all the reasons you cite (I had a flat bat mtb) it also prevented damage to the shifters in crashes. I had first gen Shimano SiS but I always left them in the friction mode as the indexing was hopeless

I don't have any friction shifters, yet, but I'm about to take a deep dive into this whole "friction" thing. Your messing around with different units, the alternative ways of mounting them and the comments from your viewers are always helpful. I have wondered about you association with "BIG FRICTION" though 🤣

@TrueNomadSkies

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly prefer it to indexed shifting. You don't need to worry about compatibility as much, and you can operate entirely by feel and get the chain exactly where you want it. Plus, you can find that sweet spot of being easy enough to push but not so light that they don't hold in place.

@-MacCat-

2 жыл бұрын

@@TrueNomadSkies Yes, all that makes sense and it is why I'm heading that way. I can't see why it won't work out for the best.

I love that shifter position -- it never made sense to have to lose grip to shift. Mavic did this 33 years ago with 'Butterfly' MTB shifters, which were beautiful, but... 8 speed index-only. 8 speed lasted about one month before being left for dead in the dust of 9 speed. I wish they would come back.

I thought about doing this with my Microshift 3x9 thumbies but then I realized that part of the advantage (for me) of having them above the bar is that thumb fatigue is greatly reduced. The effort can be shared with other digits. Also- when tired I can change gears with the brute force of my palm, if needed. I prefer like the shiny red anodized parts to be where i can see them.

Thanks for the clip - I credit one of our local bike stores back in the early 1980s for making this suggestion for my MTB. I have never gone back.

One work around for using a friction shifter without enough throw for 11 speeds is to also use the Wolf Tooth Tanpan. I use this setup to make my 10-speed Dia Compe bar end shifter work with an 11-46, 11 speed cassette.

Very good-in the late 1980’s I built up a Cannondale MTB frame with Campag. MTB Centaur groupset. and fitted the thumb shifters under the bars..back to front! Worked great.

This is great! I had been wondering about better mounting positions for my friction shifter. I also don't like to shift across the top of the bar. I was so excited, until you mentioned likely not enough cable pull for 11-speeds. My Tumbleweed has 12-speed SRAM Eagle. In hindsight, I honestly don't think I need 12-speeds, so I may rethink my rear cassette, being in friction-mode I can keep the same RD. Glad you also mentioned needing to hold the shifter for those moments your really cranking on the gears, mine has been slipping when in the biggest cog.

I love them old thumbies. I have some Suntour XC Ltd ones on my 91 Rocky Hammer. I used to do the same thing as it made it easier to place the bikie upside down and not damage the shifter ends.

I just built a '94 GT with a wide range 1/7 cassette, that XT rapid rise rear der and a Suntour right thumbie mounted underbar on the left. Works great for me as a lefty.

These friction bar-end shifters are great on a bullhorn handlebar. Additionally, the inclusion of interrupter levers (also known as cross levers) used on touring setups make for a good combination. This setup also enjoys the same benefit as your solution and makes both brake and shifter within fingers' reach. Bike on!

I love your channel - always learning new things I think I might apply. Just used your learnings about cantilever brake setup the other day and now this.

Glad to hear the front Microshift shifter has enough pull to get through a 10speed cassette. I'm running their bar-ends now on a bike with drops, but i am planning to change to bullmoose bars once winter hits, and I got the thumbie mounts, hoping to set them up the Riv way.

Thank you so much for this! I just ordered a pair of Microshift shifters, so I'm so glad I found this. I'm going to try it when they arrive. Thank you!

I did this on my bike for quite a while on the left side because my left shifter was basically a right shifter with a different faceplate, and it just felt more natural to push my thumb down to apply tension. Being a left shifter, it was used less often so being out of the way of my hands was a bonus. When I ended up building a vintage bike to sell, I put those shifters on it because I wanted to keep things as period correct as possible, and I was kind of hoping the girl would ask about why I arranged things like that but she never did.

Some really old bikes had shifters which mounted on the 22.2 mm handlebar stem. I've mounted them on the right side and used them to shift the front and rear. Interesting to see someone else use a friction shifter in this age of skill-free shifting.

I like this so much. This was the push in needed to buy friction shifters. I'm 40 and I grew up with friction shifters, they were usually in the down tubes and this just annoyed me because they were too fast removed from my brakes. I built a 1*10 l-twoo road bike recently and ahhh... Other reviews of the a7 groupset don't really lie. The rear derailleur has only the slightest stamp and probably flexes way too much. The index shifter... Well... It's very inconsistent to say the least. I'm hopeful the Microshift will do the job right. I like the idea so much.. I want to run both levers inverted on different bikes. Thumb down power just makes more sense when you're on the grips for braking. I love it. I'll update in l-twoo 1*10 Microshift when it arrives :)

super nice, I will probably try this set up on my corner bar, I currently using 8 grip shift with it. Thinking of upgrading to 10 speed and this is the way to this, not really fan of the trigger shifter on the corner bar. I am done tinkering with the trigger shifter and decided to just to use a 8s Microshift grip shifter. Glad I discover this and now have another option to have 9 or higher speed on my cassette.

Yep, that’s the way to do it. By the way, every now and then you can get (from Riv) wing-nut replacements for the “d-ring” friction screws. Nicely functional.

I did the cross mount with Deore XT shifters on a RockHopper in 1993. I didn't like trigger shifters, and I'm left handed so it was great.

Going to try that this weekend thanks!

Thanks for the inspiration...I am in the process of putting together a similar setup on my road touring bike. I don't have index shifting on any of my bikes btw...big friction approves of this video.

You crazy kids. Yes I did this to my mountain bike when I “raced” in the 80’s. ( by race I mean turn up and have a gentle cruise around the course). It makes for a much easier riding experience. And now it’s all about thumb shifters…

I have my hybrid bike set up like this! I bought it from a Japan surplus store and it came with this weird crappy Shimano Tourney shifter (Idk what it's called but it's 6-speed indexed). I accidentally bought a pair of thumbies that were both left so I just put a left shifter on the right. Turns out, it actually feels better to use it that way

It doesn't matter how high end components are if they're not ergonomically friendly. I have friends that look at me strange because of bike setup, but the thing that I have to really fiddle to get right for me is bell mounting. I prefer it by my right thumb, but most are made as left hand operation, so I mount them on back side of bar or upside down. They're legally required in my state, and I use it a lot on shared paths to let walkers with dogs know I'm approaching. Most of them actually thank me.

@tanstaafl1960

2 жыл бұрын

Proper bell placement is critical. 👍

@derekhobbs1102

2 жыл бұрын

Especially with dog walkers using extendable leads that reach across path.

@jimr3597

2 жыл бұрын

a guy told me yesterday that he calls our "Ding A Ling" - he says people hear it better than a bell, and that they SMILE.

@DonnieX6

9 ай бұрын

@@jimr3597 Nice to read I am not the only one doing it, haha! 😛But I use the German version "Kling-e-ling!" here, people find that amusing too, but everybody knows exactly that you are a bike rider in that moment. Before that I tried to use "Excuse me" to get past somebody, but that always took much more time and brought confusion.

I tried a right shifter microshift on a 12 speeds sram gx eagle and it worked well. I did put it in the friction mode.

Old Suntour index shifters also had the ratcheting mechanism in the left lever, been running one of these set up like this shifting an Advent derailleur over an 11-42 8sp for a few years now.

@sd3457

2 жыл бұрын

I had Suntour on my 1991 Kona Lava Dome setup exactly like this. I feel old.

I run the Riv remake of the old Suntour power ratchet design downtube shifters on my road bike. On my Riv Atlantis, I run a hybrid setup with a downtube front (left) friction shifter, with a bar end friction for the rear (right side). Allows me to use a bar end mirror on the left. My Trek Mountain Trak Frankenbike has thumbies mounted reversed and upside down, with the cables crossed as they go from the downtube housing stops to the BB cable guides.

My arthritic CMC (thumb) joints thanks you! Shifting my shopping bike just got less painful! ❤

I did something similar or might be exactly what I did in the early 90's with my Deore XT/ DX Thumb shifters, I preferred them back in the classic position personally but if you are used to under shifters then I can see the merit

I am still laughing! the Idea is great! It is so simple! I do not know if i like the motion with the thumb but I am going to try it. this is "thinking outside a very very old box":)

I use such microshift shifter for 8 speed Shimano Alfine (internal gear hub). And it's best solution because you can turn any gear with one move

Did this on my Clem L and I love it!

For me, friction shifters on the downtube works great. On my trail bike with flat bars Shimano XT M8000 ( i think) indexed but they work like friction shifters when gearing down.

If you're using friction thumb shifters swap left for right, visa versa and you can do this under bar set up. Even if you want indexing just learn to shift the rear derailleur with your left hand. Not a big deal. I even modified some old Sun Tour shifters to mount in the hooks on my dirt drops. I ride mostly in the hooks, so this is the cat's meow for me. Most decent old indexed shifters by Shimano and Suntour have a friction option. I'm using Sun Tour XC Pro 7 speed shifters, 9 speed XT shadow derailleur and a 10 speed cassette. It shifts great, I can use any cassette or rear derailleur that's available out on a long tour. Friction shifting still works OK if you bend your hanger or tweak your derailleur.

@szurketaltos2693

2 жыл бұрын

You could look into the Suntour command shifters or Dia-Compe ene wing shifters, they do similar to what you did in the hooks but are usable from the hoods/drops. Or don't, if it works for you then why change?

@rollinrat4850

2 жыл бұрын

@@szurketaltos2693 Ive got a bunch of nice old shifters, both thumbies and bar cons. I can fab custom brackets too.I dig making one off custom stuff for my rides. . I would like to get some Rivendell silver shifters though. They have a nice ratchet feel to them.

Thanks! This helps me understand the new world of ' what the heck is s shifter snd how can I ditch the twist shifter I dislike on my 2006 era 3x8 Shimano / sram".

I like the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters installed in the reverse stylee.

Been swapping the friction thumb shifters on my bikes for some time. Not for your reason although that's pretty cool. I ride vintage road bikes with down tube shifters and you pull them down or back on the right shifter to go in a lower gear and up to a higher. With the thumb shifters swapped it kind of mimics that movement. Its completely backwards on the left front shifter but I'm used to that from the downtube shifters.

This is why I subscribed! Thanks!

Cool, love my thumbies on my 91 atb but also on my polyvalant!

Sounds like you should work with Paul Components to design new thumbs shifters. I like this idea.

I saw Toasty Rides do this in one of his builds too. Great idea really. Hard to find friction shifters round here though

I got to try it out.

We ran front 7 speed Deore thumb shifters upside down like that back in the 7 speed days.

Microshift also sells the thumbie adapters if you already own friction shifters

Oh great, something else I have to try now LOL. At least I already have all the pieces on hand and the carcass of an old FUJI Suncrest to experiment on.

Rivendell was the only brand I found where I could get (in their terms) a bar end left / flat bar right. Looking forward to trying it.

@petercroce

2 жыл бұрын

Update: it rules. Extremely high quality build. You can orient the angle of your housing too which is a nice touch. Planning on putting one on my fat bike next.

Works for me... been doing this for years

"we're going to get bike nerdy." Same as it ever was. (Wouldn't have it any other way) Interesting idea, but I'm too lazy to implement it.

Giving credit where credit is due, this was done during the mid/late 80’s most notably by Paul Thomasberg (and others) who raced for several teams and was one of the original Shimano Skunkworks riders that worked on the development of the under bar shifters still in use today.

@gileee

Жыл бұрын

Honestly every time I'm mounting any component to my handlebars I check how it would look on the other side. People have been toying with this stuff since the invention of the bicycle and there's absolutely no way to say who did something this simple first. I mean, it's a binary choice - left or right. Not exactly rocket science.

@nomad2753

Жыл бұрын

@@gileee at no point did I say it was done FIRST by the gentleman and time period referenced, just that it was done which is an incontrovertible fact. Reading thoroughly isn’t as you say, “rocket science.”

@gileee

Жыл бұрын

@@nomad2753 You said "credit where credit is due"... for doing something everyone could have done and many many people did do. Some self reflection is very good for you and also isn't rocket science.

I did this on my thumb shifter mtb when trigger shifters came out!

I should have thought of this, moving the shifters undernieth, 34 years ago on my original MTB!!!

isi silicone grips are worth the cost over the thinner off brands. they are thicker.

How ESI doesn’t sponsor you, i don’t know. Also, these videos of late have really made me think about my bar and shifter choices. Alt bars are looking more and more tempting haha. Especially as I’m finally at looking at buying a new bike, and I can use my current one for bad ideas

So fast forward to your cues experimenting.... Will this setup work with your proposed cues 2x group?

lubricate and protect the internals in your microshift shifters. i think the clicky bits in mine have loosened/got corroded a little.. i like friction shifting more than index shifting though because with experence and clutch rear mechs it lands right on the cogs plenty good enough. the advent x rear mech im using i left the plastic cable housing long and passed it though the cable ferrule on the mech.. i had to hone the hole a little to allow the plastic housing to pass but now the cable glides in the tube over that sharp bend the cable has to make That MicroShift Should Have Never Engineered into the advent x. e, actually i cut the plastic housing 8" short on the jagwire link assembly and used a different peice of plastic housing grafted in. that way when the plastic housing gets worn at that tight bend the cable has to make i can replace the 8" section. it needs to be that long so the cable links grip the plastic housing so it doesnt possibly slide out. if it was just the last inch or so i worry it could creep its way out of the housing. seriously just a dumb engineering move on microshifts part. i think maybe they didnt want the cable mounting point to have to make a bend inward thereby sending the cable housing poking outward from the mech? because judging by the way it needs to be articulated thats how the cable would route given the arm swing. im running a 52t chainring and my chain had to be like exactly 120 links or somthing; a link more or less and the chain couldnt shift due to the offset top pully; the b-set distance would jam if the chain was too long or the chain would be too short for the big cog. microshift, if you read this,, make a version 2. peoples cables have snapped because of how the cable exits and when you add this sort of friction you are throwing performance in the wastebin

We were flipping and under-mounting Shimano and Suntour thumbies 30+ years ago. I always suspected that’s where Shimano got the idea for the modern day trigger shifters.

BTW - Don't get all het up by thinking you have to use your shifters on the proposed left/right sides. As a left-hander I run a conventional setup and have no issues - you just get used to whatever side they're on. You tend to get alot of throw when using barend shifters on pods - I find myself having to reach around too for the lever. I'm running 3x1 so for those 3 increments, it feels like the range should be alot less to reach with just my thumb... I just got used to changing gears less often, and adjust my speed/cadence rather than shift.

Friction is simpler internal tech. One benefit is not having teeny-tiny pawls get gummed up with old grease. Paired with modern Hyperglide+ style cog sets and modern chains: best of the old and new together. Folks conflate Hyperglide and SIS because they both came out in the same timeframe. I'm looking forward to the next gen commercial offering that will respond to work like this.

Any update on if the left Dia-Comp ene shifter has enough pull for a 10 speed? Thanks for the videos.

Can you do something like that for the cranks (the left side ). I would like something like a twister that will move the front derailliur but with a thumb. As the traditional thumb shifters have only 2 steps (for 3 speed front cranks), but I want more, like the twisters, for easy adjustments

that’s crazy. i did this on accident earlier today because i broke the right shifter somehow during installation and had an extra left one. great minds!

Sweet watch. Do you have more watches or bikes these days?

I have a 1x11 Shimano set up. Is there any shifter that has the range to use this upside down switch-a-roo for me??

Does a friction shifter work with a clutched rear derailleur?

Thanks Russ always fun hearing about stuff I’m not yet ready to try but May one day. Hear is a dumb question. Wouldn’t mountain shifter work on bars like these? I found a dusty 90’s mount ion bike and love those thumb shifters. I’m a drop bar rider by the way.

@PathLessPedaledTV

2 жыл бұрын

May work but may not have enough pull.

Makes sense to me! They should just be designing thumbys to be used this way!

“Big. Friction..” I love it.

I was thinking if I could use a thumb shifter in a bullhorn

I run mine slightly more underneath the bars. Mostly for aesthetics I guess.

I now know what to do with the random left Microshift thumbie that's been sitting in my spare parts bin for years.

Can u do this for a dropbar setup? I am having problems with reaching my downtube shifters :(

Where can I get that turquoise color cable housing ?

We definitely need a “sponsored by big friction” sticker asap lol

Just stick a mtb XT shifter on it if wanting that type rear derailleur set up save alot mucking around it's pretty much the way a modern shifter works thimb and trigger finger shifting on right side only

Nice!

No cheque from Big Friction. But surely Grant is sending you a bike, book or hatchet from time to time.

"Big Friction" heh. The duopoly of microshift and diacompe? Edit: I loved this vid so much I watched a second time.

That would pair up nice with a Shimano Rapid Rise derailleur. My brain wants to push in for a fast speed Haha! I made this comment 5 seconds before you mention rapid rise. I should watch the whole video before commenting sometimes

Wood bars are crazy. Imagine wiping out, it snapping along the grain, and immediately impaling you

Oh wow, apperently I'm so early, the video isn't fully processed by youtube yet.

Oh god, I'm old enough to think 'that's how had to do it in the early-90s'!

First time I did this was because my right shifter broke and I only had left shifters. I still ride my bike with two left shifters, one of them upside down on the right.

0:21 does anyone know what these brake levers are?

Can downtube shifter do this? Using left shifter?

I swear I thought I'd never hear anyone bring this subject up, I've been using Microshift thumbies for yrs,and always wondered why on earth can't they be made under the bars,it would make way more sense.Of course I'm used to them at this point but,you think by now certain companies would've made them by now?Just an old schooler asking😊🤖⚡

Big friction!!

You need to collaborate with microshift on a new design!!

What about electronic friction shifting?😳😅❤

Didn't see on reading through comments. Warning - When 11sp Shimano road front shifting emerged it introduced a new longer cable pull ratio that's not compatible with older shifter cable specs. Rivendell discovered this the painfull way and had to liquidate the front derailleurs they bought.

This is kind of your only option If you want to use inside bar ends or crazy bars with thumbies.

@PathLessPedaledTV

2 жыл бұрын

Hadn’t considered that!

Is that front thumbshifter full friction (like old Shimano XT) or micro-indexed (like old Suntour XC Pro)?

@PathLessPedaledTV

2 жыл бұрын

Micro indexed.

I like the aesthetics as its metal and not plastic.

If you want to try friction for as cheap as possible, Amazon sells some Sunrace friction shifters for about $15. They are pretty bottom of the barrel quality, but work well enough. Both front and rear have that ratcheting friction deal. I know they work on 9 and 10 speed. No idea on more than that though.

@kimberleemodel7182

2 жыл бұрын

If you have a local bike co-op you can get some old timey ones too. Aside from the micro-ratchets, which you can probably find too, the tech hasn't changed in like 50 yrs.