I've got $8 diamond plates I bought off ebay over 10 years ago that still work fine.

@EngineersPerspective701

8 ай бұрын

Nice, glad you’re getting good use out of them

Always coming through with great content on these long night shifts. We appreciate your time putting together this content.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it eases the shift! Now I have an actual reason for them coming out at midnight!

Am glad you started this line of investigation, very interesting 🙏

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it! Lots more to come with these types of photos!

I have to say. The DMT. Was WAAAAAAAY sharper than the other edges. I’d have a second look. Just an opinion. Great video!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Good eye! The DMT was the first one I used and I did a few burr reducing strokes. The rest I said screw it because that wasn’t my focus so they’re 100% burred up

No wonder I loved the Venev it relievers the scratch pattern consistency of a ceramic with the cutting speed of Diamond.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

They really are the best for the dollar in diamond abrasives! I've heard that the naniwa resin diamond stones have even better consistency, but they are a lot more expensive.

@thecookseye7383

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 Actually I have the Naniwa resin bonded diamond stones and they just load up so fast and require constant dressing, they also don't cut as fast as equivalent grit Naniwa Pro stones on carbon steels or stuff like SG2. I'm sure it's different with the super high carbide PM steels but honestly I was very let down. I really need to get some of the super vitrifieds from Triple B though

@jeffhicks8428

Жыл бұрын

@@thecookseye7383 carbon steels or sg2? Bro these are vastly different things. R2 is freaking hard stainless steel that skates over a lot of stuff. Carbon steels even at 63+ hrc you can brick them till they won't cut even paper and get them sharp as a mf again with literally 3 minutes and a 12k shapton pro. That's how easily the stuff sharpens up because it has no wear resistance what so ever, beyond whatever is afforded by hardness ofc. That's how I maintain my white steel knives, one single high grit stone, anywhere from 5k-12k depending. half a dozen strokes on either side then alternate to finish up. Good luck trying that with R2. I only use shapton glass for stuff like R2 and even then you gotta use lower grits. If you take dull R2 to something like a shapton glass 8k, which is a very fast cutting stone that will chew through carbon steels like nothing, the R2 skates on it and it takes a while. You gotta use lower grits. Hopefully no one comments about fatigued steel and yadda yadda, yeah I understand. I'm making a point here.

You put the results in the thumbnail, rendering the video superfluous… But I watched anyway🤪👍

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

I ain’t here to waste anyones time! 😆

Hell yeah man making the content we want to see!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, glad it tickled your fancy!

I have the same microscope. I find it hard to fine tune the direction of it and prefer a more precise scope.

Great stuff!!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Outstanding video. Definitely an engineer's perspective ;-) BTW, it's not made by Gritomatic, but a guy whose moniker is Mr.Wizard, on Blade Forums.

@EngineersPerspective701

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! Nice bit of info!

@trumanhw

5 ай бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 He's also super generous with his time. Have you used Shapton Pro ..? How'd they compare to Venev / Triple B..? (not that it matters as there's no more Triple B to be found). How does a Resin Bonded Diamond Venev compare to their cBN..? Any chance you might do some comparatives on that ..? The difference between a 320 diamond plate vs shapton pro is massive. As far as profiling grits ... have you messed with "Congress Tools" ..? They're supposed to be both cheap and good. (So I guess they arrive slow to satisfy the good fast and cheap trifecta)

Loving the new content :) Still the deburr video is a must watch

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! Glad that one is favorite!

On a sidenote I'm enjoying the king 1200 , the underwater princess 😂😂

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

She’s a sloppy, muddy gal but she treats ya right!

The pictures tell the tale. $450 stone!!! Just buy a new knife if one dulls LOL. I am liking my Venev Ursa and a Ruixin 009 modified with a rack and pinion system for adjusting angle. Three $46 stones for six grits from grind a new angle all the way to mirror finish before stropping.

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

Get me a kershaw link every year for a decade almost! The super vit is worth it for ne but the Venevs are great stones for sure and I still use them lots

Thanks Man! keep it coming! Are you gonna do one like this with high wear resistant steels? Knowing Triple B I think of super-vitrified is a specialist stone that shines brightest with High Vanadium super wear resistant steels. He likes nearly exclusively super high wear resistant stuff like 15V and vancron, I think Magna-cut would be low wear resistant for him. I use plates currently, don’t think I can justify the vitrified but I might get larger veneve stone.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

It’s funny because I shot Maxamet and S110V videos but there are some issues with how the video itself turned out! Not sure if I’ll publish them or not!

@ared18t

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 That would be awesome. I hope it turns out well

Give the Columbia River Stoneworks diamond matrix stones a shot, they are resin bonded. Gritomatic and edgepro both carry them. I haven't use the Venev or BBB for comparison but the matrix have a much nicer finish than plates. And anyway I only have them in very fine grits as I use cheap plates, or traditional coarse AlOx/SiC for basic shaping.

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

I’ve seen them on Gritomatic but never tried them. My impression was that they would probably be more similar to the Venevs and Naniwa resin stones while probably being closer in quality to the Naniwas. Probably one of the best choices for a high end diamond abrasives when a person doesn’t want to spend super vit prices or can’t get one.

@mytech6779

Жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 It seems Jende is also on the resin-diamond bandwagon. Venev is directly effected by the Russian sanctions, much is sold out. I was looking through the McMaster carr catalog and found they sell both artificial and natural diamond compounds and slurrys, claiming the natural cut faster. I wonder if the difference is similar to the mono vs poly crystalline deal. And with the price differences between these stones are they all different types of diamond....

Excellent video, thank you. I may just go ahead and do something similar as I have a few diamond and CBN sharpening stones/plates - among them a smaller version of the Venev and my experience there is similar - the stone is a little too hard (slow wearing) and likes to clog up a bit.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Please do and share! The venevs definitely clog up, I like to use an 800grit nagura to clean them up but that does wear down the stone reducing the life. I estimate I'll get at least 5yrs of life out of them though so not too worried!

@_BLANK_BLANK

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 I use mine quite a bit, sharpening semi professionally (its only about half of my usual income), and its held up better than my traditional alumina, and Sic based stones as well as my diamond plates. So it definitely does have a long life, even with cleaning with a nagura. I should really get a super vitrified stone eventually though. But the venev I have are holding up super well considering they're my go to stones, and I sharpen waaay more than a normal person ever would.

I know you can’t test everything, but Atoma is well established and reportedly has a notably consistent scratch pattern for a diamond plate. Too bad you didn’t include the Atoma 400.

@EngineersPerspective701

3 ай бұрын

Hear lots of good things about the atomas. I essentially skipped over them in the jump up from the DMTs and haven’t circled back yet. Maybe one day!

Been wanting to upgrade stones, but knife budget has primarily used for knives.The wall I've hit from crappy stones is a little frustrating. Great vid! Keep it up!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

The value proposition of stones is difficult for a lot of people so I get it! I went a looong time on plates but if you can swing it I’d really recommend the 240F/400F Venev or a sharpening system!

@EvilWiffles

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 Kind of an odd question but I have both a 150 grit and 240 grit Venev stones for a Hapstone R1 for forming edges/apex. However, I mainly use Chosera stones from 600 grit to 5000 grit (pretty much all the stones between these two grits). I think this combo seems to work okay but if I wanted a good mirror finish, what Venev stone should I use before hopping over to the 600 grit Chosera so I can avoid polishing the deep scratches I get from the 240 Venev?

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

@@EvilWiffles so you’re going for perfect mirror edges right? Note that I’m not an expert in that process! The easy answer would be the Chosera 400. Supposed to have a great finish for its grit rating and cuts like a quality 400 ceramic stone should. I would also think about the Venev 400F but I do feel like it’ll leave stray scratches and it probably won’t remove them any faster than the Chosera 600 but I can’t say for certain.

@EvilWiffles

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 Well, I bought more Venev stones up to f1200. I don't regret it, they are fantastic stones! I should have known Chosera's weren't really a good choice for 20cv and the likes because I've always felt that my edges didn't really last long. I use either my Hapstone or I freehand sharpen on these stones but I feel like my edges tend to last longer when sharpened on Venev. I don't regret my Chosera kit because they are still really great stones for my carbon steel knives.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

@@EvilWiffles the performance of diamond edges is the real deal man! That’s awesome you went for it and have been seeing that improvement

Does anyone know the life span of the venev stones that have the thinner coating it would be wonderful to see how these stones perform over a 5 to 10 year period with constant use!

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

I forget what I had calculated but I believe it was on the order of 5yrs if you use them 2-3 times per week and use a nagura to flatten and clean them. Great bargain still!

Hey. I have that same microscope. Its definitely a pain in the ass to take pictures with lol. But it's all I have for it.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Worth it though!

I've seen diamond abrasive powders sold on Amazon. Would it be possible to mix this with say,an epoxy resin to make your own diamond sharpening "stone"?

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

Possible probably but as a cost saving measure you are not coming out ahead. There is a lot that goes into it, much of which I’m not privy to albeit. If you’d like to attempt designing your own stone then hey the world is your oyster! I’d recommend looking at articles and papers on relevant material sciences

Part of the cleaner finish would be the binder in the resin bonded stones wouldn't it?

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I’d say you’re right! The 240F has their abrasive binder instead of the OCB in the higher grits. Unsure how much it contributes though comparing it to the super vitrified. The Venev may have been slightly better then the Super Vit so maybe that’s why

Looked at the Venev site and couldn't find where it indicates whether the Diamonds are poly or monocrystaline. Do you know?

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately I don’t know. I’d think they’d be inclined to go for monocrystaline with a stone but I can’t say for sure

Sorry if you already answered this - what grit Venev stone most correlates to the super vitrified 400 stone?

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Probably the 240F. I haven't tried anything lower grit from Venev so possibly the next one down the line, 180F?, could be closer in speed but the 240F is very close for finish as is.

@_BLANK_BLANK

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah the 240f should equal somewhere around 350ish jis grit roughly.

Thanks for this video, had a question for you. How often do you replace diamond plates? Do you eventually use your 300 for 600 when worn down, how can you tell? Thanks again!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Good question! Just to be up front, I’ve only ever fully worn out one DMT coarse. And both plates shown have probably given 70% of their life. That said it’s mostly based on speed because that’s what I use the coarse for. When it takes a lot longer to bring up a burr or reprofile I’m ready to retire it. The finer grits depend on how they’re doing removing the previous grit scratches. Never thought about using the 300 for a 600 but I think it would mostly work! Might have a few stray big scratches

@bjornegan6421

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 how much pressure as far as your 'feel' do you typically use when using the dmt's? such as more or less pressure than the weight of the blade, a pound or two, heavy, etc.

@TylrVncnt

Жыл бұрын

@@bjornegan6421 you do not want to bear down on DMTs it will wear them out quickly

@bjornegan6421

Жыл бұрын

@@TylrVncnt Thank you. I'm trying to get a grasp of how much pressure would be too much.

Do they dish? I know the electoplated ones do not.

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

Super vit don’t dish. They will load up over very long periods of time. I used the 400 for a year before using the included cleaning stone.

Does vitrified diamond stone dish out and build up? I prefer dmt over Geneva only because the surface never dish out and doesn't build up. I wonder if the vitrified diamond stone is different.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Super vitrified doesn’t dish, doesn’t load. It’s basically a miracle stone! Go watch triple B’s videos too. My 400 has darkened up after a year of use and I may use the included alumina cleaning stone but it’s still flat and cuts like a DMT coarse.

@gmuk101

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 hah I wish I knew this before I bought venev and DMT. Thanks!

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

@@gmuk101 DMT and venev are still good, especially the latter but the super vitrified are hands down the best and everything people say they are. It's honestly amazing. Depending on how much sharpening you do they last substantially longer than the plates and longer than the venevs, not sure how much, so they can have a good economic payback too if you're a power user like that

Can I clean it with a eraser like a ceramic stone

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

Yes for the plates and no for the Super Vit and Venev. The latter two use naguras or SiC powder on a glass plate

@tompossessed1729

Жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 Can a cheap aluminum oxide stone be sufficient enough

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

@@tompossessed1729 Possibly for the Venev but honestly nagura stones are only $8-15 so I’d still push that way. The Super Vit comes with its own super high purity alumina nagura for cleaning

@tompossessed1729

Жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 finally question how much was the dmt plate because I usually hear plates cuts faster then resin bounded stones due to them being used to flated stones

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

@@tompossessed1729 For cut speed, it comes down to grit rating. The DMT coarse is usually around $40-50 for the 3"x8" plate. A Venev 240F cuts a little slower than the DMT but close as long the Venev isn't all loaded up. You could get a lower grit Venev to cut faster than the DMT and probably still have a better scratch pattern

DMT diamond plates are fine and all for what they are, but man some of the shit is counter-intuitive like stock removal rates per grit. Science of sharp wrote something about that. And they can leave some deep DEEP scratches at the course and fine level. I was using one of their course 325 grit or whatever, fine 600 grit and very fine 1200 grit plates to do some thinning and reprofile work. One of the scratches it left was so deep I had to start over. That's what I get for being cheap I guess. Atoma is a vastly superior product. Anyhow. The DMT like things are good for like flattening stones and creating slurry honestly.

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

The DMTs are definitely a level of quality at a price point but I think worth it still for someone wanting to get into diamond abrasives. Not ideal for perfect finish but a guy can get insane edges with enough care and attention given. Really the upgrade to me is the Venev stones. Still not perfect scratch pattern but WAY better than any plate.

@jeffhicks8428

Жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 I've seen people talk about them online but I've never seen or touched one. I do have a naniwa diamond finishing stone for my zdp knives. That thing is nothing like a plate, obviously. DMT sells an 8k plate but I put my glasses on and read the fine print. That's a no go from me.

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffhicks8428 the Venevs are a great compromise from the Naniwa resin bonded diamond stones for the performance to price. But I do believe the Naniwas are overall better stones. hard pass on the DMT 8K for sure.

Обясних ти защо не става със шкурка. Съмнявам се, че разбра нещо. Ако не е конвекс спокойно може да се заточи на стенд. Искам на ръка да ми заточилш нож под 45 градуса, може да ползваш и лунен камък ако щеш. Съмнявам се тъдява да се е пръкнал някой нов Микеланджело дето може да нарисува 45 градуса на ръка

@didodonev8799

Жыл бұрын

Wrong post. Sorry

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

@@didodonev8799 😆

Holy smokes, $450 for the super vitrified 0.o Let me just pick up this brick that suddenly appeared lol. Definitely a nice stone and one it would be nice to pick up if one had the money to burn. I somehow think the vast majority of people are going to be more than satisfied with the double sided Venev stone for just under $90 at that price point.

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely a very expensive stone but hands down the best that’s out there. Would agree that the Venev is the choice most will go with and be very satisfied. Honestly high volume sharpeners are really the ones that this stone is meant for and that get very high value from its performance

lol DMT win its look so sharp and very clean edge and Venev & Work Sharp have tearing on knife edge 6:18

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

You missed it in the video man. The stone isn't related to the cleanliness of the edge. I originally was going to deburr for all but I figured it wasn't worth the time. Would have saved me this comment though

DMT - 100%

@EngineersPerspective701

Жыл бұрын

I’ve gotten many sick edges from my DMTs

Can you give a review on the Crystolone and India stones from Norton ? I know vitrified diamond is the bomb, but still ... :)

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

Very affordable and popular so yes! I think that would be a great idea! Any preference on your end? I think I’d be looking for at the India myself

@dimmacommunication

2 жыл бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 We can get the crystolone here at a good price but I see you have a huge selection of Silicone Carbide stones, not here tho. I would have bought the crystolone If I had a really hard steel , that thing is tempting me as a reprofiling stone. If you buy it and review it on a hard steel it would be very interesting , you have a " technical " eye to it,helped me a lot about burr. I am more of a " sensation" type of guy .

@EngineersPerspective701

2 жыл бұрын

@@dimmacommunication I’ll definitely look at getting one! Sensation/feel is key I believe for good results but the trick is developing what feelings are “correct”. For that I like all this testing and analyzing to translate what I’m feeling to results!

@mytech6779

Жыл бұрын

India is just a hard bond aluminum oxide that is pre-soaked with oil, good for a lot of things but it wont do well on harder tungsten and vanadium steels. The Crystolon can handle most steels and although a bit coarse and scratchy in normal use it can be manipulated to get a somewhat finer grain size then its base grit would indicate. Use a second fine crystolon sort of like a nagura is used to get mud with a traditional Japanese stone, because of the hard bond and fracturing nature of SiC. Be sure to use a very light petroleum oil with those, like iso15 [ saybolt or sus70 ] or even better iso10 if you can find it economically. The lightest baby oil is usually iso15 if you can put up with the perfume; also some cutting board white mineral oil. You could mix a super thin penetrating oil or gun oil with a bit of thicker oil if needed. (water is about iso1, #2 diesel fuel is about iso3, and motor oils trend around iso 32-150) Just don't use edible fats like canola, they gum up after a while and then need a long soak and brushing in kerosene or gasoline.

Well 45micron is official on ANY grit rating a 391 but we'll say 400 for arguments sake and a 33 micron is 543 so would probably be rated as a 550 grit so that chart is a load of rubbish

@EngineersPerspective701

6 ай бұрын

There is no functional single micron to grit rating that is universal. Just because some organization says that’s the standard, other countries, companies, standards organizations may have their own. Three stone companies can have the same micron abrasive but they all leave a different finish and edge depending on the specific abrasive they have manufactured, binder, etc. The chart is an attempt to normalize all those variables based on finish from each stone.

@jasoncampbell6222

6 ай бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 if that were the case then there would be absolutely no use for a grit rating and it would be a case of " here try this paper/stone it's a little bit more scratchy than that one", I'm guessing you're one of these that believe that mono-crystalline diamond coatings are superior to poly-crystalline just because the advertising says so.

@EngineersPerspective701

6 ай бұрын

@@jasoncampbell6222 you’re absolutely right, grit ratings are somewhat of a suggestion or indicator where they will land in terms of finish and cutting speed. What grit rating are you using? ANSI, JIS, FEPA-F, G0ST? A 3000 JIS is not the same as a 3000 ANSI is definitely not the same as 3000F FEPA. And these are just ratings that do not take into account how the abrasive particles are made, classified and blind together that makes a noticeable difference. Even two different lines of stones within the same company that are both JIS rated like at Naniwa may not perfectly correlate to each other. You can’t directly compare their pro/chosera line to the super stone line. They won’t line up if you use the same “rated” grit on the same knife. This is what makes trying out new stones so much fun and an awesome rabbit hole to go down!

10 times better and 10 times the price. Get the DMT and you will get a very sharp knife for a very cheap price. We aren’t sharpening scalpels.

@EngineersPerspective701

11 ай бұрын

Different strokes for different folks. Depends on what exactly you’re looking for

@Chance-ry1hq

11 ай бұрын

@@EngineersPerspective701 True. Bang for your buck is what I’m always looking for. That’s why I was able to retire at 60.

@user-pm7pw1tl3t

Ай бұрын

​@Chance-ry1hq depends what your bang for your buck translates too. In my shop a plate like that lasts a day if that. And we don't use pressure either.