Fast forward, he tells a story about a horse and a stag. "Kratos is fixed."

A lot of people seem so confuse “good character, with sympathetic character” Kratos is by no means a good person, but you don’t have to be a full virtuous character to be interesting or fitting for the role

Aphrodite isnt kratos's sister. She was born when cronos threw his dad's severed genitals into the ocean. So like she's Krato's great aunt i guess

@Abdega

4 жыл бұрын

Ara Ara Aphrodite

So Pat and Woolie are both wrong about one thing. Woolie, being manipulated into killing your wife and daughter, the only living people you love, is not a "light push" to being pissed. In fact It sounds like a pretty fucking huge push to me. Pat, Kratos was indeed manipulated by Ares because he put his family there so that he would kill them so that he would be a better warrior. How is that not manipulating him?

@Tenebrio-Morio

2 жыл бұрын

Killing the family wasn't the light push, he was lightly pushed into killing his family.

@Asgardian30

Жыл бұрын

@@Tenebrio-Morio You mean the family that Ares teleported there

Convenient how they forget how Ares "robbed him of his humanity." Krato was losing a war against barbarians and sought the aid of the God of War, Aries, and in return Aries made him his servant and stripped Away his Humanity essentially turning him into a tool.

if you actually know anything about Greek Tragedy, Krato's story arc in the first game is a textbook example of one......the rest of the series however is sadomasochistic fluff

Griffith is looking at kratos and going wtf!

@pocenha

6 жыл бұрын

Griffith only killed all his friends, not all people in the country. =P

@phantomgoblin5540

6 жыл бұрын

Griffith also became a false prophet and everyone rallied with him and Kratos is a "semi-real" prophet and everyone points a gun at him guess no one likes the da murder boners :(

@cia4u401

6 жыл бұрын

pocenha Griffith also made the whole world literally uninhabitable (except for Falconia) unless you like getting murderfucked by trolls and mystical monsters

@death2boredom338

6 жыл бұрын

To be fair, the essence of all the dark stuff in Berserk is seemingly a product of all the negative emotions people have because of how shit life is, even without the monsters, making them want a "God" that gives reason to their suffering. The go their god, but its a god that's bringing more suffering. There's also the whole forgetting Fairies and the old ways thing that seemingly was abundant in a much less dark world that once existed until humans fucked it up somehow. At the very least, that's how I interpret it. From what I hear about Kratos though, meh, fuck the Greek Gods and at a certain point the people too. I'm fine with an asshole as a character that destroys everything when everything supported his assholeness.

"But the point is that Kratos isn't redeemable!" Kratos fans scream as God of War 4: Kratos' Redemption, attempts just that.

@TwoTwig

6 жыл бұрын

Except that God of War 4 doesn't try to redeem him. He is fully aware of the monster he is.

@RoastedPheasant

5 жыл бұрын

He's always been fully aware of the monster he is. Watch "God Of War Was Always Deep, You Cowards" by Endless Jess.

@Abdega

4 жыл бұрын

@@TwoTwig “But I am your monster no longer”

@Mr.Faust3

3 жыл бұрын

@@TwoTwig its like there was one but we just skipped it

None of them talk about Pandora, and Kratos giving hope back to humanity... By killing himself

@RisingMoon336

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, except he didn’t really die and instead he completely dodges his responsibility for fucking it all up, and dicks off to Norway like the irredeemable asshole he is. INSTEAD OF STAYING AND TRYING TO FIX ANY OF IT! XD

@ledzeppelinfan1001

5 жыл бұрын

@@RisingMoon336 NO HE DOESNT HE GIVES THE ENTIRETY OF GREECE THE LITERAL POWER OF HOPE.

@Braxmegaman

5 жыл бұрын

@@ledzeppelinfan1001 "Hope" is the best power when your house is flooded, the sun is extinguished, you have the plague and insects are eating you alive, and all the dead are coming back to life.

Woolie doesn't know Kratos is Zeus' son, but thinks he knows the character well enough to judge him.

@ledzeppelinfan1001

5 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY

@tylerlackey1175

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone associated with the best friends just have laughably bad opinions. This is why they're entertaining, but not respectable. Like dsp

Honestly I like how shitty kratos' character is. That's kind of the appeal to me. Like he's dumb, I know he's dumb, I just enjoy watching him fuck up everything and blame everyone but himself. Like it's hilarious I love it.

@MonkeySharkPro

6 жыл бұрын

I can totally respect that opinion.

Kratos back story in God of war 1 was basically Heracles Origin story

I hope this one ends with Kratos killing his family because of Loki or whatever.

@JohnSmith_1920

6 жыл бұрын

i kinda hope the Norse gods are disgustingly more powerful than the Greek ones because of the cultures, and Loki physically overwhelms Kratos to show that the Greeks ain't shit

@LordDrystan

6 жыл бұрын

Uhh, having played the game, i'd say you're close, tho it's really just invincible Baldur that is his main problem.

@JohnSmith_1920

6 жыл бұрын

knowing the ending now, my own comment makes me laugh in hindsight

@CelioHogane

6 жыл бұрын

No man that's obvius, fuck that basic stuff. I hope Loki IS his family!

@JohnSmith_1920

6 жыл бұрын

are we getting less subtle each time on purpose?

Technically speaking, a god of war that kills EVERYONE is so good at their job that they no longer need to exist

i also love how they're talking about how you can't redeem Kratos in the game and the game is just like "nah you can't redeem what he did just move on"

So they ignore that when he killed his family it was in a different town, in a smoke filled building, with godly hallucinatory influence, after being told enemies were in there? (Wow it's like they know nothing of the story)

@hans-ulrickalbright4867

4 жыл бұрын

Okay then he kills the guy who did that, and his family, and the entire fucking country as a result. He’s only justified in about 20% of his genocidal murder spree.

I kinda want to clarify a few points that the best friends got a bit wrong. 1) God of War 1 is most certainly a tragedy; a Greek tragedy. Greek tragedies are piece of shit protagonists getting their comeuppance. And Kratos getting a raw deal in 1 is most certainly a Greek tragedy. The later games, ehhh, they're dumb. 2) Kratos has a murder-boner for Ares, but that's not the only reason he goes after him in Athens. Ares is pretty much rampaging through Athena's turf, which is why she comes to Kratos and says, "Look, Pandora's Box is over there, you can kill this bitch for me, and I'll, uh, forgive you? Sure." 3) Kratos is an irredeemable piece of shit, sure, but that's kind of the point; in the first game, he does terrible, horrible things, but those things are means to an end. The soldier that gets incinerated in the puzzle on Kronus' back is the solution to that puzzle; in order to continue, Kratos has to do it. In future games, yeah, Kratos just murders indiscrimintantly for no reason, but I don't see how Woolie is so down on him, it seems like he's missing the point entirely and is just focusing on how much of a piece of shit he is.

@patrickloureiro1403

6 жыл бұрын

i think the problem is not the character itself but how the narrative views him, he is a irredemeable piece of shit but the writers don't get that and thinks he's super in the right.

@pocenha

6 жыл бұрын

Well, friend, you're wrong in two points. 1 - No, GoW is not a tragedy. Chracters of tragedies are not all pieces of shit. They are people who commit an offense against the gods or are victins of circunstances. FOr exemple, take Edipo, the most famous tragic character. His story starts with his father, who had and affair with a prince of another kingdom, and they tried to run away to live together. In their scape, the prince died and for that Edipo's father was cursed. Edipo himself was a victim of the circunstances of his father curse, and those effects will carry over to his children, as you can see in Antigona's story. That's why it's a tragedy, because the victins are not the one's at fault. 2 - Well, even if my first point is wrong, Kratos can't be the protagonist of a tragedy, because he is rewarded for his crimes at the end of the game, while tragic protagonist lose everything, suffer through hell, die or go crazy. Kratos becomes a god. So, no, Gow is not a tragedy, is a Power Phantasy.

@furyberserk

6 жыл бұрын

jak2492 They lied about taking away his memories of killing his family and made him into a God after he became like ares. It's not his fault the gods kept him alive.

@Furymgs3

6 жыл бұрын

Close, I'd say. The problem isn't the character itself, or how the narrative views him, but how the _players_ view him. Granted, it has been a while since I saw it, but I don't really remember the narrative establishing at any point that he's right, far from it. He's _sometimes_ shown in a _somewhat_ sympathetic light (as in, he shown once or twice to be able to faintly experience feelings other than seething rage and pure hatred), but otherwise the narrative doesn't really take a stance, and actually, judging by what you get to see of Kratos' actions, he's shown in a piss poor light. I mean, do you really thing that Kratos' writer included a scene of him shoving a woman into a door's mechanism to jam it, thinking "Oh yeah, what a cool guy my hero is"? The only thing which is remotely cool about Kratos is that he's a badass warrior, which is pretty much a given when you're a Greek hero. Kratos is shown doing cool warrior shit and amazing feats of superhuman strength not because the narrative thinks he's super cool, but simply because he's a Greek hero, and that's what Greek heroes tend to do. It's literally an epic story. A Greek tragedy, and an epic story. But it's often lost on the players, who will often either gush on how "cool and edgy" Kratos is, or go in the opposite direction and say he's a terribly written asshole. In both cases, they're missing the point. Kratos isn't a Superman or Captain America-type of hero, he's a Greek hero. Pat jokes about how Kratos doesn't give a shit, and Woolie complains about how much of a hypocrite he is, but they're compeltely missing the point. Of course Kratos doesn't give a shit, Greek heroes only give a shit about war, fame and their own. No, Kratos isn't an hypocrite, because _he doesn't give a shit._ You're not a _hypocrite_ if you go "It's fine as long as it's not my family", you're a _piece of shit,_ and Greek heroes were often pieces of shit like that. In short, the writers had a particular goal in mind, and they mostly fulfilled it. They wanted to show how alien the concept of an actual Greek hero is to us with our own idea of heroes, and they did a pretty decent job of it.

@li-limandragon9287

6 жыл бұрын

Well it’s been 7 GoW game so far and I haven’t seen any comeuppance for Kratos.

Kratos' family is messed up WELL BEFORE he was born. His god family is full of arrogant inbred people that loves to betray one another. Like Zeus is married to his sister Hera. Before that Cronus was married to his sister Rhea. And Gaia had children with her son Uranus. The common theme between the male gods is overthrowing. First Cronus overthrows Uranus by castrating him. Then Zeus overthrows Cronus during the Titanomancy. Then Kratos kills Zeus for imprisoning his brother Deimos and imprisoning his mother Callisto.

@InugamiTheHound

5 жыл бұрын

they never mention Kratos's brother only one small throw away line. You'd think his brother and mother and family would be important to Kratos but NOPE!!

Not even love, just lust

Pat forgets the time-travel shit near the end of 2.

crazy talk activate

That's not quite the second reason. In gow2, the reason Zeus gets rid of Kratos is SO good at being a God of War (hence why he is so well respected in Athens) that both his rising notoriety and apparent power legitimately had Zeus worried. That Much like Zeus did with his father Kronos, Kratos would go on to overthrow his father Zeus, eventually.

Man, I'm happy they ranted about Kratos. This is why I can't get into the whole father-son gimmick.

I hope Loki seduces kratos and then after the sex is like "it was just a prank bro."

@mastermarkus5307

6 жыл бұрын

Because of the spoilers I know this comment got extra uncomfortable.

@GigachadVTuberEnjoyer

6 жыл бұрын

no, it got hotter

Woolie realizing Kratos is Zeus's son has the same energy as finding out who Luke's Father is.

And they sill like vegeta a person who has killed more people than kratos ever has and laughs about it with his FAMILY!!!

The general message is sound but there’s so much wrong with this

the context for the beginning conversation is mid-podcast, woolie looked at his shoes and realized he was wearing different pairs on either foot and pat began to comfort him but woolie interrupts and says "i have to do shit after this!"

Ares purposely moved them to the temple to get rid of this weakness to hone him into a weapon

No one is irredeemable, but man Kratos nerds Jesus. Bad. Like now. I mean, dag.

@li-limandragon9287

6 жыл бұрын

Don’t put Jesus near that god killing douchebag.

Qbert is the worst protagonist in a video game

as someone who loves the god of war games and the lore and story, it's almost painful to hear Pat poorly explain god of war to Woolie XD, not saying that Kratos is blameless, fuck that, Kratos killed way too many people and was very selfish but the gods were far from just bystanders, Ares and Athena fucked him over from day one, kidnapping his brother and stuff, and the thing with his family, HOW THE FUCK WOULD HE KNOW HIS FAMILY WAS IN A TEMPLE IN A CITY FAAAAARRR AWAY FROM SPARTA?! Ares moved them there so they would be killed by him, the gods just fucked Kratos over and he went berserk on them, he's not a good person but the gods are not blameless

So Ares was making Kratos kill people on his behalf and purposefully left Kratos' family among the designated targets while they shouldn't have been there at all? What do you fucking *MEAN* that's Kratos' fault? His lord deceived him but somehow he's still the sole perpetrator in this?

I must say I don't get what Woolie means with the whole "the camera this the camera that." How does the camera "act" like that?

@toastofcatbread3207

6 жыл бұрын

He's basically talking about how the camera frames things. For example, the camera frames Kratos killing Zeus at the end of GoW3 as a terrible act, since you see the event from Zeus' perspective and realize how monstrous Kratos is. That is an example of the camera being acting tonally sound with what is happening. When the camera does something like frame Kratos using a living human being as a prop to hold a gate open, which then viciously tears her apart, as an act of badassery, it creates the tonal dissonance they were talking about and almost makes it seem like the game is saying that what Kratos did was okay or justified.

@Khotgor

6 жыл бұрын

+Toast of Catbread - ... the game does not showcase Kratos placing a woman on a lever that outright kills her being forced to hold it up as badass. I'm not sure why you would think that. The girl is literally horrified and trying to run away from Kratos, before being forced and shoved to be used, with the woman literally telling him "please stop, please don't kill me, oh god please stop. stop, stop, stop."... And then Kratos shoves her into a lever that the player can clearly see is trembling to hold on... and when the player tries to leave, they hear a horrifying sound as she is crunched. There is no epic OST that is like "WHAT A BADASS!!!"... It's pretty silent and unchanging through the whole ordeal as you hear the woman screaming and being chewed up hard. The game never lies to the player how much of a piece of shit Kratos is, especially God of War 3. He literally talks like a fucking super villain in some of his dialogues, and there are cases such as Poseidon where the character is literally running away as you are seeing through POSEIDON'S EYES as Kratos is literally beating him to death and looming over him like a Monster, beating him relentlessly before outright killing him. Anyone that thinks the game is shining Kratos as some Hero is outright delusional. Does Kratos have his human moments? Sure. Does not mean that he also doesn't show his more monstrous moments either. In fact, it is so much part of his character that it is the reason why God of War even exists in the first place as it fits the rest of his character; A Guy that Did Shitty Garbage that hates himself over anything else for that Shitty Garbage, and is mad at everything and himself and just digging himself harder and harder down a hole of self-hating, self-loathing, and outright rage against everyone and everything.

@toastofcatbread3207

6 жыл бұрын

+Khotgor Admittedly I've never actually played the games myself and was going off of how the SBF described it. I'll take your word on it though - it would be kinda weird that GoW4 portrays his past actions as monstrous if the previous games didn't. A better example to use would've been the scenario described at 19:13.

@JJMomoida

6 жыл бұрын

You summed it up pretty well. I don't recall a single moment of the game in which a camera angle is used to project this supposed feeling of "badassery" that Woolie talks about. Maybe it zooms in for some gorier shots and whatnot but I'm not sure where exactly he sees the camera making Kratos out to be a badass. It seemed pretty damn impartial to me.

@Khotgor

6 жыл бұрын

+Toast of Catbread - Yeah, God of War does both, but generally they don't mix together, and it really, really depends upon the situation. Kratos killing Ares? Badass. Kratos killing his family? No. Kratos killing the Hydra? Badass. Kratos killing the sailor captian? No. Kratos killing the Kraken? Yes. Kratos accidentally killing spartan comrade? No. Kratos beating Zeus to death? Awesome. Kratos snapping Hera's neck? Kratos beating Poseidon to death? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, It really depends. There are moments where you look at Kratos and be like "Fuck yeah, kick his ass!" and then there are other moments like "I've gone too far, I've gone too far in a few places." It's not one or the other, just depends on the situation.

... What's fucked up is that this isn't exactly incorrect, it just lacks a lot of context.

Why do people like Kratos?

@Guciom

6 жыл бұрын

Pure 90's style muscle roid rage.

@phantomgoblin5540

6 жыл бұрын

pocenha because he is just a murdering monster

@furyberserk

6 жыл бұрын

pocenha He fights for what he believes in and they aren't the gods.

@Guciom

6 жыл бұрын

And what he believes is that the whole world deserves to be destroyed because he can't live with the guilt of his past crimes.

@drz2014

6 жыл бұрын

Why do people like The Punisher or Predator or Spawn? They are cool I guess?

You can appreciate Kratos because of how committed he is to his own unjustifiable anger and pursuit of revenge, he will literally never second guess himself and will doom the world in his quest to commit every war crime and family murder available.

@Brutalyte616

5 жыл бұрын

It's less that and more like Kratos doesn't give a shit about collateral damage; he's on the warpath, and anything that gets in his way is going to face the consequences of that. Is he actively killing innocent people? Yes, because he needs to sidle across a ledge on the side of Mount Olympus and they're in his way, or because he's trapped in a temple somewhere and the only way out requires him to use something to jam the lever and the only doorstop readily available to him is Poseidon's sex slave, but _that_ only happens because the game designers purposefully forget that Kratos can move fucking mountains and could quite easily pick the gate up or just break it down.

I like Kratos but I think people that like him know he's a piece of shit I also think Kratos knows he's a piece of shit to thats why he tries to kill himself multiple times. I look at people that like Kratos the same way I look at people that like Broly, Broly is a bad character that has a horrible back story but guess what I like him because he's really strong and hates Goku even if he hates him for the dumbest reason ever

I thought the title was Kratos is the worst father, because I didn't read the whole title.