First off - thank you for the video as it was very informative. All my questions are with regards to the BACTOFERM F-LC starter culture: So here my questions: 1) You stated this starter culture can be used : - much like F-RM-52 (in a high temp 100F fermentation etc) or - much like T-SPX (in a low temp 73F fermentation etc) . So does this mean: - this F-LC start culture can be used in high-temp fermentation salamis that use cure#1 (no nitrates, only nitrites) that have short cure times in under a month or so ..Is this accurate/correct? PLUS - this starter culture also be used in low-temp fermentation salamis that require long cure times (3/6/9) months cure times etc (which normally use cure #2 and hence include nitrates & nitrites etc..). 2) also what is the target PH range for this starter culture? 3) Can this starter culture use BOTH type of sugars: Monosaccharides (glucose, fructose..) and/or Disaccharides (table sugar etc) (I would prefer to use table sugar / cane sugar etc, so want to make sure..) 4a) lastly, I noticed that doing a google search for BACTOFERM F-LC: Some sites show it as "..F-LC-007.. Is F-LC the exact same as F-LC-007 or they are indeed different? if so what is difference? b) why is it called Safepro and not Bactoferm on the bag as the first two starter cultures you mentioned in the video? - is it because this F-LV has a bio-protection against listeria as you stated ? hence safe-pro? just curious, no biggie if unknown.. Thanks again for all your efforts in making great vids - looking forward to seeing more.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

1) You are exactly correct. If you ferment at higher temps this culture will mimic F-RM-52 (short cures with cure #1 under a month) and if you ferment at lower temps this culture will mimic TSPX (long cures with cure #2 longer than a month) 2) If you ferment at higher temps your target pH will be 4.7- 4.8. If you are fermenting at lower temps your target pH will be 5.0-5.3 (you get the staphylococcus benefits here) 3) Technically it can but because of the bacteria present they process sugars slowly. It is recommended to use dextrose but you can use corn syrup, table sugar, wine, honey, to give them food. Just monitor the pH and be sure that you are at target by day 3-4 at the max. 4a) I think what you might be referring to is a completely different culture called B-LC-007. This is a relatively new culture that provides bioprotection as well. The differences between FLC and B-LC-007 are huge. B-LC-007 contains a yeast to suppress the tangy quality, 1 lactobacillus strain, 2 pediococcos strains, and 2 staphylococcus strains. I can tell you from personal experience with this culture is that it is very aggressive. It consumes sugars very quickly and has rapid ph drop. 24-30 hours. If you are not careful you can drop below 5.0 very fast and lose the benefits of the staph bacteria. If you can control the amount of food you give it and closely monitor the temp B-LC-007 delivers a nice product but for most home producers of salami they will find it too unreliable. I say stick to FLC or TSPX for more successful results b) You are absolutely right. SafePro is a trademark name given to cultures by CHR HANSEN with Bioprotective qualities. It’s a nice benefit, but if you cure meat properly and follow the rules of Home Production of Charcuterie then listeria won’t be an issue. The cure that you will be using in your meat prohibits the formation of listeria. I hope that help and if you have any other questions please ask away!!

@SS-pi2yi

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler One quick one: After opening the starter culture bag (say the Bactoferm T-SPX etc) for the first time, what do you normally do as for storage until next use (say in a month or 12 months into the future if even doable)? Do you re-seal the culture bag or a simple folded over/with a clip seal is enough? I ask because I am not sure if the starter culture will lose efficacy quickly after opening the bag or not ? Thanks for any insight.

Thank you so much for the VERY helpful info. I have been reading and watching everything I can about salami making for several days now as I'm about to make my first batch shortly. I don't often go lightly into new ventures - my first batch will be a 50 pound Sopressata run to share with family so trying to ensure success is paramount. My cellar is currently 47 degrees and 70%RH so that should be the easy part. Thanks to you, the rest just got a lot more manageable having as much info as possible to start! Salud!!

Was doing some subject surfing this morning and ran across this and the Starter culture play list. This was the first one I have watched and am very impressed with the level of detail and information provided. Look like this was done a while ago and you have updated some of your tools but all in all great. Thanks

Nicely put together! A WELL of information! Thank you, I’ll be replaying this one with pen and paper in hand!

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Thank You. If you have specific questions as you move forward be sure to reach out...

Yeah. Yall are the shit. This is the best crash course I've seen. Looking forward to the first batch and couldn't have done it without your work. Cheers!

This video and some of your previous comments answered a number of questions I had that I was unable to find answers to elsewhere. Just a quick thank you, and keep up the good work!

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

That's awesome!! Glad I can help..

What a fantastic, informative, edited and professional video. Despite the technical aspects of the subject, your explanations are precise and easy to understand. Just finishing reading a book on the art of fermentation; however, your video on starter cultures nailed home the theory. Thanks again!

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Hey Paul. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.

Wow...very informative. Your videos as well as your answering too several of the questions has gave me knowledge insight before I start my first batch of Soppressata . So glad I found your site.Thank you.

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent. Let me know if you run into any issues..

Thankyou for a great video. This is pure gold information 👌🤘

Beautiful and very thoughtful, I very much appreciate your concern. Very kind, generous of you sir to educate guys like us. Thanks a lot.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words Vijay. Thanks for watching.

@s.leemccauley7302

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler pp

Your knowledge is a god send! Thank you so much!

Great video. I plan on looking into several culture types over time.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to hearing about the results...

First time viewer! :) Very interesting and in depth video. I'm not even planning on making salami, I was just intrigued. I never realized that salami was fermented; I never gave a thought to the differences between salami and sausage.

Thanks very much for the intresting facts about it overwhelming, but you have explained it very nicely. 👍😃Good job.

Real eye opener thank you for that tutorial

dude great video, well put out and easy to follow. You are a good teacher.

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Cookingdude. Really appreciate the feedback..

@cookingdude1237

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler subscribed so i can watch all your other vids when i get time

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

That's excellent. Thanks for the sub... I've got some ridiculous projects in the works. If you ever have a question don't hesitate to reach out. See you soon..

Great video thanks for sharing 👍🏻

Thanks for a great vid. Very informative.

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

great info. Thaks a lot

Thanks so much for this video, just subscribed to your channel

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent. Thank you..

Great video. The Monodo line of cultures has no information available on the strains it contains. I have found a source of starter cultures that has information on its strains. I will be trying these out and seeing how it affects the end product. Thanks for the great video and sharing your secrets.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

That will be really cool. Be sure to let me know how it turns out..

This is by far a great overview of starter cultures. I'm sorry my college courses in mycology and bacteriology were not as interesting....maybe would have gotten better grades! Keep up the wonderful work with your videos!

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Oh that's funny!! Thanks for the comment.

That was very interesting and informative. My local shop has stopped stocking T-SPX, which is annoying, and they have started stocking something called VBM-2, which has L.sakei, and S.xylosus and S.carnosus. So using the information from your video here I would say it is more of a North European cure, and would typically be for a product that is going to be dried within 4 weeks, and possibly smoked, but the S.xylosus bacteria means it can be fermented at a lower temperature for a slower drying salami, which is what I have used it for, seeing as I couldn't get T-SPX.I hope that is correct, anyway.

Great job! Very informative! I wonder about carefully blending some of the cultures. Most likely a strain will outcompete the other, but it would be interesting to see the outcome.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

That's funny you say that as the companies who make this are "Chef's" with bacteria and each pack is their recipe. I have often thought how cool it would be to have a bunch of pouches with only 1 strain and I could mix and match to make my own "recipe" but then I realized that there's probably lab equipment involved and the last thing I need right now is another project :)

@cmsense8193

5 жыл бұрын

2 Guys & A Cooler In theory it may work, since each packet has its own nutrient matrix to maintain the bioavailability of that particular batch of bacteria. Mixing the product could be as simple as just that. Also, these organisms are not as fastidious to survive compared to others. I think the major hurdles lie in keeping a more aggressive organism from using all the energy (sugars) before the others have a fair chance to thrive. But I agree it can become quite the project - and judging from your previous videos, you will end up setting up controls, ph changes, growth charts, etc...😂! Hey keep up the good work!!

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

@@cmsense8193 you are so right...

Bravo et merci

Hello and great video, very well done and informative. As someone with a bit of experience, it's always nice to come upon information presented in an easily accessible manner. I have a question that I've been unable to find anything on: Can test or otherwise determine if a commercial starter culture is still alive after being frozen for an extended period? My experience has been that they still can give a good result after as much as a year, but generally have reordered after 6 months. Would love to hear if you have found a way to tell or observe (ie if bubbles form in the water you're reactivating in, then they're alive?) this accurately. This is definitely a question for the small home curer. Thanks!

I wanted to thank you first, for making all these great videos. They are so informative and I also wanted to thank you for giving me the hope that I can too make these types of charcuterie which were up until recently reserved for people who had cold room in the basement (catina). So I built my fridge identical to yours (except for the holes on the refrigeration system - haha) I learned from your mistakes, thanks again for that too. One thing I don't quit understand is that in your videos you mention botulism - but I see you prick all your sausages or salami etc (which I plan to do as well) - but botulinum is an anaerobic bacterium, meaning it can only grow in the absence of oxygen. So my

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Joe. Looks like your question got cut off. I'll try to guess what the question was but If I'm off let me know. Pricking the sausage doesn't make it anaerobic it just gives the casing some breathing room. The filling in the casing is for the most part oxygen free. This is where the dangerous stuff could grow. We mitigate that by adding curing salts and fermenting our salami before drying. If that wasn't your question let me know 😁

Thanks!

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

Thank you and You are Very Welcome!

It was was like semester's worth of information in the time my starter culture bloomed

Great video with best information! I have only one question. When is best time to add smoke when you using starter cultures?

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Sam. If you are doing salami I would cold smoke as soon as it ferments or even during fermentation. It also depends on the culture you are using. If you are making semi dries like summer sausage or pepperoni I would smoke after fermentation (while it's cooking)

Hi, I think your channel is great, I don't have any of the equipment needed to make salami. how was dry salami made in old times, drying fermenting ect.

Did you ever make a video on fermentation without starter culture? 🤔very interested in that.

Thank you for a great video, it answered so many questions. I am in the process of building my salami chamber and keen to get started.I have viewed your video on a chamber build many times. Up until now we have done some salami and whole muscle cures like coppa and bresaola in the kitchen fridge. This led to a lot of case harding which we hope to rectify in the new chamber. I do have one question, do you ever use a starter culture in a whole muscle cure like coppa or bresaola?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

I can't wait to hear about your creations!!! Using a culture for whole muscle curing isn't necessary. I never use it.

Hi Eric. Did you make a video on using LHP starter culture? I couldn't find one in your play list. I'm always interested in what the Master has to say before I try something new! Thanks for all the great information you provide.

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

I have not but intend on making one. LHP is a great starter culture is you want fast acidification. It's almost exclusively used for sausages that have a tangy flavor like pepperoni, snack sticks, Lebanon bologna, summer sausage etc. When you use LHP you would increase the amount of dextrose added to anywhere between .8% and 1% and you are targeting a ph of 4.7 - 4.5 (the lower the ph the tangier the flavor). LHP-Dry is my goto for fast acidification. Hope that helps.

@Brewer35

Жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Thanks Eric. I'm trying to figure out how to make shelf stable summer sausage that can be held for several weeks without refrigeration and not spoil a bunch of summer sausage in the process or make my friends and family sick! Merry Christmas to you and your family!

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

lowering the ph to below 4.6, cooking/smoking for at least 5-6 hours and getting to an internal of 140f and letting the product dry for a week or so is the way it's done.

@Brewer35

Жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Thank you very much! You're a great guy to know!

Thanks for your awesome video, would there be a way to inoculate salami with a starter culture that has already been filled? For example with a syringe?

Great video. Much appreciated and very informative. Out of curiosity, how do you adjust the pH of a sausage if it is already stuffed?

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Dave. Thanks for the comment. After the salami has been stuffed the salami will go through a fermentation period. During this stage you can pull it out of fermentation when you hit your target pH. Be sure to check the pH often. If you overshoot your target ph during the fermentation stage the only way to adjust the ph is to add mold 600. This will raise the pH by a couple points during the drying stage. Ultimately practice makes perfect in this step. The amount of dextrose you add will play a critical role in how much your pH drops. If you want a low pH (4.5-4.8) you will add more dextrose if you want a higher pH (5.0-5.3) you will add less dextrose. Also the higher the temp that you ferment at the faster your bacteria will acidify your salami. So if you are just getting started ferment with a TSPX culture at 65F for a few days. This is a good reliable culture that ferments rather slowly. I would add no more than .2%- .3% dextrose if you want to stay in the 4.9-5.3 range but every salami is different depending on the ingredients. But I digress. I hope that answers your question. Let me know if I need to explain it a little differently

Which starter culture would you use for pepperoni? Great info.

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

There are 3 options for pepperoni. You could use F-RM-52, F-LC (at the higher temp), or LHP-Dry. I like and personally use LHP dry to make pepperoni. It comes out amazing with a beautiful and slightly tangy flavor..

It is a great video, the question is can we use both nitrate, an anti bacteria growing agent with the starter cultures at the same time

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

yes

I love French salami very much because of its mild flavor and hard texture.

Hey Eric, I was wondering about using Flora Italia for a summer sausage recipe instead of the T-SPX, thoughts?

I feel well educated thanks,, can I use a sour dough starter/ live yogurt etc or even the mould culture off cheese instead of bactoferm which is extremely costly for the hobbyist?

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Hi glenn. That's a really good question. I actually get that a lot. The mold culture off of a store bought salami would be in the same family but studies have shown that p. camemberti works as well. (Brie or Camembert Cheese). I bet the cheese mold would give the salami a very interesting nutty quality. Sounds like I'm going to have to try that one day.. This is a DIY version of a practice called "Back slopping". "Back Slopping" is where a mold or some meat from a previously inoculated batch gets introduced into a new batch for the purpose of inoculating the new batch. Although it has been shown to work there is a strong possibility that bad molds and bacteria get introduced to the meat as well. Google "Topps Meat Company". They had to recall 21 million pounds of ground beef supposedly because of this "back-slopping" practice. They basically contaminated their own meat by unwittingly introducing contaminated meat to their batch. It put them out of business. With that being said the molds can be very easily detected by the eye. We know what it should look like so if it starts to get fuzzy, green, black, red, slimy, then we take steps to fix the problem. With bacteria to ferment salami it gets tricky. For instance sourdough not only contains a lactobacillus strain but it also contains yeast. Yoghurt has LAB's (lacto bacillus bacteria) and acidopholous, and really likes lactose to produce lactic acid. Kombucha's bacteria is no good because it need oxygen to survive and the yeast in it help produce alcohol and form the SCOBY. Sauerkraut juice may present the most viable source for Lactobacillus strains as it contains L. plantarum (in addition to about 6 others). It would be interesting to see what this would look like as there are really no staphylococcus strains in sauerkraut. So the addition of sauerkraut juice will mainly only serve to create an acidic environment and lower the Ph when given the appropriate amount of dextrose. So of the options given here yoghurt and sauerkraut juice seem like the most viable. I have to add that I've never tried it, I'm just familiar with the science. In theory it should work. Sounds like a cool experiment. As long as the pH hurdle of 5.0 - 5.3 is met in a few days it should be fine.. I hope that helps..

Thank you for all your info, most helpful. Have some questions, can himalayan salt be used in place of sea salt. Also on a natural note, can celery power be used in place of a natural curing agent. This question is on binding agent, can carrot powder take place of corn syrup solids. Can organic sugars be used in place of dextrose powder. Will wine be effective as a natural culture. Many thanks

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you can use Himalayan salt. You can use celery juice powder for things that require Instacure #1. I wouldn't use it to make long cure projects. Also carrot fiber can be used as a binding agent as well. You can use organic sugars in your recipe. Bacteria can process simple sugars most effectively so fructose and glucose are the best to use (honey has both). Wine isn't a good culture but can be used to reduce the pH. A good natural starter might be sauerkraut juice

Hi mate Love this video! This is by far the most informative iv seen regarding this topic. Well done!!! I have questions particularly relating to controlling PH levels and using T-SPX in fermentation of salami, as T-SPX is all I have at the moment. Are sugars the only way to control the ph in the meat? Should you measure the ph in your meat before you begin. Then try to calculate how much sugar you need for desired ph finish, regardless of what the recipe says, is this the key? What if it your trying to make a sweeter Chinese flavoured salami, and you wanted to add a bit of sugar for taste but then you wanted to keep the ph not below 5.0 because of using T-SPX, what would you do? Is it safe to go lower then 5.0 ph using T-SPX. And if your happy with the ph say you have achieved 5.1, do you immediately start drying the salami to stop further reductions? Is this a key? How do you determine the amount of sugar in something like wine? Then how do you go about adapting your recipe to suit adding wine with the amount of total sugar to feed the T-SPX to get the correct ph of 5.0 - 5.3 ? Lastly is adding strong alcohol to a salami recipe like vodka going to kill the T-SPX or effect the ph level? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. Really appreciate that. Let's answer your questions.. 1. Sugars is the only ingredient you can add to control the pH in meat. Lower temps slow the process down and higher temps speed it up.. 2. Yes. The best way to understand how much your pH needs to be lowered is to know what your starting point is. Most people don't do this as they just assume their pork is fresh and measures around the 5.9 area but it is a good practice to get into. Once you know the pH you can accurately add your sugars. 3. This is a tricky one because TSPX can process all types of sugars (albeit at different rates). The best option would be to use the culture FL-C as it does not process table sugar. So any table sugar would be there to sweeten the meat rather than feed the culture, but if you were going to use TSPX I would use dextrose to initiate the bacteria activity then add table sugar for sweetness and finally ferment at 65F-68F (18 - 20C) lower is better as it will want to ferment slower. I would adjust the salt to around 2.25% and the cure to .25%. Test the ph at 36hrs.. 4. TSP-x has an optimal range where the bacteria are functioning and doing their job. Dropping below 5.0 only affects the staphylococcus strain in TSPX. The rest are still active. The downside to dropping below 5.0 is that you lose the bacteria that are responsible for flavor and color development. Also as the pH drops (lactic acid being released) the salami will gradually begin to get more tangy. At any point if you test the ph and you like where it's at then you should start drying immediately. 5. That's a tricky question as different wines have different amounts of sugar. When I use wine I only use a little bit (2 Tablespoons per 5 pounds of meat) and I try to offset the dextrose by half. This is something that you will have to experiment with and see what works for you depending on the culture that you are using. 6. Alcohol is a little trickier as the alcohol can kill the bacteria. I did a video where I added rum to one of my salamis (I didn't add much) and the end result was incredible. So if you add hard liquor don't add too much and you should be fine.. Thanks for the questions.

@clintonlittle

5 жыл бұрын

2 Guys & A Cooler This is awesome!! I think I’m slowly getting it!! So why would you lower the salt to those amounts? Many people say that anything below 2.5% salt is just seasoning and .3% curing salt is a must. Also what percentage hard liquor would you recommend to add (like rum) to be on the safe side of not destroying the culture? And what percentage dextrose and table sugar would you add for a slightly sweeter sausage using the T-SPX. Your educated guess is better then mine.... Thanks

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

That's great news.. Slowly but surely. Salt content is a major point of contention for a lot of people. I try not to argue with them because at the end of the day the amount of salt that one adds comes down to personal desired results. As long as the total salt content IMHO is between 2.5 and 3.0 there is no risk of danger. So adding 2.25% salt and .25% cure falls into those parameters. The reason I would lower the salt content is so that the sugar would be more pronounced giving you a slightly sweeter sausage. I'm guessing this is a cure 1 project as you will most likely be using 30mm casings +/-. The dry time for this sausage will be super fast. 2-3 weeks on the high end. The more water loss the product has the more pronounced the salt is. So a sausage dried to 33% using 2.75% or 3% salt will taste less salty than a product dried to 40% with the same amount of salt. The issue will be the texture. at 33% the sausage will be softer than at 40%. You get to make the call as this is a personal preference. As for liquor consider this. If you are making a dry cured salami then adding liquid tends to be counterproductive. So the idea of adding liquid to a dry cured salami/sausage is to add just enough to impart a subtle flavor without adding so much that you effect the drying/curing time. Everyone has different thought on this but I tend to stick with the 2 - 3 tablespoons per 5 pounds of meat. This is a safe place to ensure your culture stays alive. As for the amount of sugar to add there are so many factors to consider. pH of the meat, temperature and humidity of the fermentation chamber, other ingredients used. You will have to do a small batch and see how you like it but .1% dextrose with .8% Table sugar fermented with tsp-x at 67F for a couple days (check pH) till you get to 5.1-5.3 should be a good place to start... You'll have to let me know how it turns out if you make it.

@clintonlittle

5 жыл бұрын

2 Guys & A Cooler Feeling confident now! Thanks for all your information on this. I feel like the pieces to the puzzle are coming together. I’ll let you know how it goes! All the best !!

Great video Eric! I have re-watched it many times over the last few years and always pick up on something that I didn’t notice before. Anyway, now I have a question; I just found some of Dad’s salami recipes that call for LS-25 starter culture, but I don’t see it available at either The Sausage Maker or Butcher Packer, so is there a similar product out there? I am going to make a batch with T-SPX but I expect a different flavor than from the LS-25.

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

Tough to say. LS-25 is a fast acidifying culture with several strains of lactobacillus. I think the closes you'll find is F-RM-52. Was the salami that your dad made tangy like a semi dried product or was it a fully dried like a European salami?

@gordonhogg4675

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler WOW!! An answer in 8 minutes! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 I couldn’t really say Eric. Dad passed away back in 1996 and we never really knew exactly what version we were having, it was all just referred to as either Salami (hard or not) or Sausage (dried or cooked). Back then I didn’t have much of an interest but now that I am retired and found your channel I have developed a healthy interest in all sorts of cured meats.

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

@@gordonhogg4675 ok. Tspx will give you a milder more rounded flavor while frm52 will bring more of the fermented notes with a slightly tangy flavor

@gordonhogg4675

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Eric@@2guysandacoolerwe are so blessed that Cecelia shares you with us. Give her a big hug from Cheryline and I. We are going to try both because your descriptions both sound appetizing.

I recently discovered your channel and I very much appreciate all the very informative content. I have a question: Is there a sufficient amount of bacteria in a purchased salami that it could be used as a starter culture? In other words, could one grind up a small amount of finished salami and mix it in with a new batch of meat to function as a starter culture? Thank you, -Wolfgang

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Great question. I don't know. Bacteria once active need water to live and since these salami are already dried they might not be very active.

Eric, I have a recipe for a spicy Italian cacciatore that uses BLC 007. Can I substitute T-SPX or Flavor of Italy for the starter culture and how much different is the flavor of the salami using these 2 versus the BLC 007. Thank you

I have a small 14 bottle wine fridge, can i use that to age a small batch of coppa or salami? Any modifications need to be done?

Hello, I must really thank you for providing such valuable information. I started making salami this year. I live in Cali, Colombia and the options of starter cultures available are not abundant but there are some available. I use natural pork casings for my salami and since these casings are not very thick my salami usually cures under a month, with a loss of around 40 to 45% within that time. I use fresh pork for my product with an 80-20 (lean to fat percentage) Until now I have been using just salt to protect my product from unwanted bacteria and been drying them in a wine cooler, so far it's been fine but after watching many of your videos I'm building my chamber, purchased a meat grinder, stuffer and will start to use curing salts and starter cultures in my next batches, where I will be able to control, the grind, humidity, and temperature. My question is, from this list of CHR HANSEN which would you use based on the type of product I'm making? 1. T-SC-150 BACTOFERM 2. SAFEPRO B-LC-77 3. SAFEPRO B-LC-48 4. SAFEPRO B-FM 5. BACTOFERM DUPLOFERMENT 78 P 6. SAFEPRO FLORA ITALIA LC 7. MOLD 600 Hope to hear from you soon, and thanks again for your amazing and instructional videos. Regards

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

I personally would recommend using the Flora Italia as it delivers the best flavor, aroma, and color. It ferments fast but is designed for slow drying salami. You can check out a video I did for that specific starter culture: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gq2kmrOuaKWrh9o.html I would also use Mold 600 in addition to the starter culture for surface protection while it dries... Hope that helps...

@alvarogiraldo9323

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler It does and it's highly appreciated!!

@ftmhlcv4645

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler İs this flavor of Italy in your opinion better than tspx or flc flavor wise? İm gonna try to source this .

Thank you very much for all the precise info! I have a couple of question regarding fermenting sausage Why is so important to place right after casing the mince into the right environnement (T and humidity) rather than holding it in a cooler overnight? The second question is how to control the drop in pH as in some of my attempt the pH dropped to 4.6 in 36 hours while following a slow fermenting process? Too much dextrose? Too much starter? A bad mixing? Thank you very much as I am trying to add the less dextrose and table sugar as possible in order to stay at pH 5.0 for flavor and color development Appreciate your input! Sébastien

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Sebastien. Let's see if I can answer your questions. 1. Fermentation is all about colonizing the good bacteria. When you "wake up" the starter culture you are giving it a head start over potentially bad bacteria. The minute you add it to the meat it will begin eating sugar and releasing lactic acid. If you refrigerate the meat you are in essence putting the "good bacteria" to sleep. When you finally get around to fermenting the meat your good bacteria no longer have a head start advantage. I'm not saying it can't be done but you run the risk of potentially growing the wrong kind of bacteria in your meat.. 2. To control the pH drop you can adjust the amount of dextrose you add to the recipe. I personally like the .2% amount. You can also lower the fermenting temp. Each culture is different so you'll have to see what the range is for your culture (or you could ask me and I'll tell you). Once it's all said and done though you could always check more frequently and once you hit your target you can start drying... I hope that helps..

@sebastienarchambault1677

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler thank you Eric ! That confirm my thoughts:) My target is to do Southern European style salami slow fermentation with a target goal of pH no lower than 5.0 in order to have thé staphylococcus develop flavor and color The best way to stop the fermentation when my pH target is reach is to reduce the temp below what is needed by my starter bacteria or to reduce my dextrose and sugar in order to limit the food and the pH drop will stop naturally ? Thank you again Loving your explanation Best Sébastien

Sourcing starter cultures in my area is either impossible or very expensive and getting them mail order is out because they need to be kept frozen so I'm looking at alternatives. In watching this video I realized that the these strains are in common over the counter probiotics. Could these be used and an alternative starter culture? Thanks.

Thanks so much for the info. If I had all three of these, would I have a need for LHP-Dry?

@2guysandacooler

7 ай бұрын

no. You could use FLC or frm-52. Both of those will do what LHP-Dry will do

@timothysteadham331

7 ай бұрын

@@2guysandacooler thanks so much for the reply. Would frm52 and lhp dry impart different flavors or does the spice mixture really overpower any perceivable taste nuances from the various cultures?

Maybe you have a video on this, I have not found it, why choose one culture over the other? I know you said temp, but I think there is more. I am about to make Pfefferbeisser and will brush with Mold 600, but why not skip the mold and use T-SPX or any other culture?

Really appreciate your videos- so helpful. One question: who's the other GUY??? 😅

Great video I'm making a Finocchiona salami and I like some tang. Is the TSP-x culture the one I should use. Seems like a fit from what you said. thanks

@2guysandacooler

4 ай бұрын

if you want it to be tangy you'll need the ph to drop to below 4.6. There are better cultures for that (LHP Dry, FLC, FRM-52) but tspx will make that happen. If it were me I would use FLC. That cultures doubles as a mild flavored salami culture or a tangy culture (depending on how much sugar you add and at what temp you ferment at)

@donbussolari5032

4 ай бұрын

Great thanks... @@2guysandacooler

@donbussolari5032

4 ай бұрын

I do not have a PH meter, I have my salami hung at room temp 72-74 deg F what is a good ferment time for a tangy flavor. thanks.

Is that bactoferm available globally, or can it be purchased on- line?

Wow great Informations. I love french Salami so I go with the SPX. I'm in Cambodia with generally high humidity and so I plan to use a wine cooler for curing. I was thinking about putting some french salamis in there to have the cultures already inside. Doesnt it work to scrub the malt from a French salami and use them as starter culture also?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

if you are talking about the mold then yes. You can do that

@fuckthem9186

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler yes I meaned mold. So the white mold on the outside is the same as we have working inside to fermentation? I appreciate your answer and your channel, kind regards

hi thanks for a treasure of info, but what is cure #1 and cure #2 Thanks

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

This is part 2 in a 4 part series: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZHuaj6NxibW7ZJM.html

Hello, please advise: 10 kg of the mixture according to the original recipe (czabai saussage). At the beginning of mixing added 5 gr. starter and ripening culture with a rapid decrease in PH (Wiberg). Bumped into the intestines. Suspended at room temperature (19 ° C) until the pH drops to 5.1, approx. 36 hours. (consumed unstamped sample that day - no problems). Smoking with cold smoke (13-16 ° C for 6 days). Result: sausages sour up behind the edge of taste tolerance (PH 4,1-4,3) I do not believe that subsequent drying can still help. Where did the mistake happen? I will be grateful for helpful advice, the same thing happened with a dose of 10 kg of "gyulai" recipe. Note: I have been making these recipes for many years without problems, but without starter cultures, I try to move on.

B-LC-007 Starter culture suggests fermenting at a temperature between 68 and 75F. Higher temperatures will speed up fermentation time. My question is: how would fermentation speed affect the texture, flavor, or taste of my salami? Thank you

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

B-LC-007 is actually made to be a fast fermentation culture. You can slow it down by decreasing the temps, but you won't get optimal bacterial production. If you want a slower ferment, I would choose TSP-X. With that being said, bacterial activity (depending on the strains that are in your culture) all do different things to the meat. Color, aroma, texture, and flavor are all influenced. I have noticed that a culture intended to be a fast-fermenting culture (for traditional salami) doesn't produce much more flavor if you slow down the process, it just takes longer. I would put Flavor of Italy and B-LC-007 in that category. Where you will get loads of flavor is in the drying chamber. If you can set your conditions so that the salami dries slower, you will have a noticeable difference in the final product.

Hello. What is your go to % on starter cultures? It seems like 0.012 and 0.024 seem to be the norm from my digging around. Thanks.

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

I never weigh it out. Matter of fact I advise against it. The minimum I'll use is 1/2 tsp (for 10 pounds or less). If I make 15 pounds I'll use 3/4 tsp, if I make 20 pounds I'll use 1 tsp. So on and so forth. Ill make a video explaining why I don't recommend weighing..

USING FLC. Can't find the dextrose range anywhere. First batch stuck at 5.4. Had to throw it out.

Hi this vid is great haven’t seen any similar could u give me ur thoughts about bactoferm lhp I’ve just recently built a fermenting and frying chamber yet not sure how to use this culture

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome!! This culture is specifically used to make products that are going to end up being a little tangy and generally have a very fast production time. This culture is used to make American style of fermented sausages like pepperoni, summer sausage, things like that.. If you want a more traditional style of salami I would look up "Flavor of Italy" or TSP-X.. I'll see if I can make a video showing how to use LHP. It's very easy. Add it to your meat, mix well place it in a warm room (90-95F) till the pH drops to below 5.0 (generally that happens in 24-36 hours). After you hit your target pH you'll transfer it to a drying chamber where it will finish there...

@IOalejandro

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler oh thst be great if u actually manage to make that video I'd literally be really grateful as my objective now is to start producing salami. I have read some books but they don't rwally mention fast bactoferm cultures. in my country I have only found lhp for sale so I guess its the one I'll be using.

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

No problem. Here is a good read on starter cultures: www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage/cultures You might want to check out the section 5.3.2 you will notice that LHP is in the middle section... Talk soon

Great video. Lots of useful info. I'm a British butcher/pie maker in the south of China and can't get starter cultures. How can I get around this? Thanks in advance

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Lee. Thanks for the comment. There's a few ways you can approach this issue. You can use "real" fermented sauerkraut juice to ferment the salami. You might even be able to use a yogurt starter in your meat to get the bacteria active (be sure to add milk as they like lactose). You could also use fresh garlic in your recipe and ferment it natural. Fresh garlic has lots of Lactic acid producing bacteria. Doing it this way will most likely only produce a pH drop but as long as you get below 5.3 you are good to go!!

@leeshaw3237

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler thanks man. I started a 16lb mix yesterday with garlic. I'll see how it goes.

about to dive into the world of fermented sausages. How do you feel about the Umai sausage products as a place to start? Thanks

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Umai is a great place to start. No chamber needed!! They have nice seasoning flavors as well

thank you very much for the videos, I would like to make my own Pepperoni but I believe i have a problem due to where i live "Philippines" I have done some searching online and just do not find any type of pepperoni starter culture sold here. I would like to locate evrything I will need before I buy my refrigerator I plan to use for aging, I would like to know if there is something I could find here as a substitute? maybe a yogurt starter culture?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Naturally fermented sauerkraut juice works well. Add .7% - 1% dextrose to your recipe and let it ferment for 2-3 days at 65f - 75f

Hej Eric You briefly mention that it is possible to make salami without a starterculture? How to you recommend doing that? Is there any subsitute you should add or can I just take one of your recipes and simply not add the culture?

Can you use mold wich you tuck from broshing the previous salami to make new salami ore Chorizo?

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

Yes

I most of the time use GDL E575 instead of a starter culture for dry sausage.

Hi Eric, thank you for some of the best salami tutorials on the internet my question is; after following instructions (and using Bactofirm spx starter), PH level in the product after 48 hours is 5.8 - do i have a problem here?

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hey David. Thanks. That's very cool to say. TSPX is a slow acidification culture but at 48 hours you should notice something happening. Is the color more vibrant, is the texture more firm, does it smell like fermented meat. If your method for checking Ph is true and it is at 5.8 after 48 hours I would say that something is wrong. Lets see if we can figure it out. There's lots of variables to consider. 1. What method are you using for checking pH? 2. What is the expiration date on the TSPX package. 3. How are you storing it when it's not in use 4. How much salami did you make (pounds or grams) and how much TSPX did you add to that? 5. How much dextrose did you add to the ground salami meat? 6. What are the conditions in your fermenting chamber Temp and humidity. 7. Is the temp and humidity accurate in your chamber (have you checked your equipment to make sure its reading accurate) 8. Is this the first time you've used it (or better yet have you had this problem before with this same pack) Lets start there. Let me know and we'll trouble shoot the issue together.

@davidcraig2085

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler hey Eric - impressive response time! Answers; color is more vibrant and firm and it smells ok, i am making your cacciatore recipe (1st attempt at making salami) 1. PH meter (cost about $500 and calibrated) 2.Mid 2020 3.stored in freezer 4. 3 batches of 2Kg (2000 grams), .45 grams spx culture each batch 5. 4 grams per batch (2Kg) 6. 68F & 87% humidity (inkbird controllers) 7. yes accurate - have made your pancetta recipe with excellent results 8. & yes opened this new and 1st use the mixture started at about PH - 5.9 and measured at 5.5 after 24hrs then went back up to 5.8

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidcraig2085 ok. Everything looks right except the irradic readings. Are u using a Hannah pH meter? I would let it go to 72 hours then transfer to the drying chamber. If everything is right with the salami the texture will be completely different than fresh sausage meat. The color will have a really fresh pink color (not from the seasonings) the smell will have a pleasantly fermented smell (it's hard to describe). At drying keep around 55f and 80%. Let's talk about the irradicic readings. I'm in the middle of making a video that covers this specific topic. pH meters need to be calibrated on a fairly regular basis. If they aren't the readings won't be accurate. Keeping the tip hydrated also plays a big part in having accurate readings. One way to tell what your meter is doing is to turn it on and take a regular reading from your 7.01 or 4.01. these should read exact or really close. If your meter is off by too much you might have a meter issue. Let me know what happens after you run this little test. Congrats on giving this salami a go. Troubleshooting the bugs is all a part of it. You are almost past the first hurdle 😁

@davidcraig2085

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Hi Eric, the meter is IONIX (model ph5s), a month old reads both buffer solutions accurately (ph 4 & 7) have just checked again and one sample reading 5.5 and the other 5.4 (my last reading of 5.8 was 10 hrs ago) , the samples smell great - a fermenting smell i have now decreased temp and humidity for drying - maybe i didn't mix well enough? many thanks Eric & will let you know how it turns out (2 - 3 months) :)

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

That's awesome!! Do you live in Australia? Nice meter! Be sure to calibrate it often even if your not using it. This will give you better and more accurate readings. Glad to hear your pH reading might have been just a fluke. Sometimes that happens.. The target pH and the safe zone for fermented sausages is below 5.3. Most home producers will try to hit 5.1 or 5.2 at the highest. This coupled with the salt, the cures, and the drying ensures that you have a safe product.. Can't wait to get an update!! Talk soon..

What is your opinion of B-LC-007 US starter culture for salami?

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Hello Victor. I like BLC-007. I don't think I would recommend it for someone just starting out because of how aggressive and finicky it is but if you are an experienced salumist and really understand pH drops and sugar additions I think it's great. The issue is that the bacteria in BLC-007 can consume both monosaccharides and disaccharides so basically all of the sugar that is added to salami will be food for the bacteria. So one has to be very careful when adding sugar otherwise it will drop the pH too quickly. Temperature when fermenting is also another factor. Although it can ferment at lower temps (65-70F) it is still considered a fast fermenting culture so a watchful eye needs to be around to ensure that the pH doesn't drop below 5.0. I do like that there is 2 staphylococcus strains in it as they really do a good job enhancing the color and flavor and there's the bioprotective strain that protect against listeria (but in my opinion I think that's more of a marketing tactic as cure 1 or 2 will protect against that as well so not worried about listeria personally. Overall it's a nice culture that produces a great salami. Like I said though it is very aggressive and very finicky. Be prepared to experiment before doing a huge batch (made that mistake myself!!) Let me know if that helps any..

I recently used bactoferm products (T-SPX, Taste of Italy, and B-LC-78), and I added too much to my meat and did not realize it until now. The salami's dropped ph fast, and are in the drying chamber. What is the effect of adding too much? Are they still good? Will the final taste be affected? I feel bad about it Looking for advice and guidance rates of 20 g per 15lbs of meat

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

You don't have anything to worry about. Yes, that's way too much but there are no ill effects on your meat. Just next time use less😉

im having problems sourcing for starter culture since im from the Philippines? should i look into making charcuteries without one? we only have here cheese starter culture and sourdough, can i use it?

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

sure. basically any starter culture will work to ferment your salami. Just make sure you add the right amount of dextrose and you are in business!!

Great video. What can happen if you ferment with T_SPX at 80F (instead of recommended below 75F)?

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

It will just ferment faster. 80f is about the top temperature for tspx. Over that the bacteria will not ferment so well..

@dorumoscovici2353

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler thank you!

Is red wine digested in the fermentation process quick or slow?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Generally the sugars in wine are simple sugars like fructose and glucose. They are consumed quick.

What is blc78, sm194, lhp, and mold 800 used for? İ was about to buy tspx, frm52 and flc on the sausagemaker website than came across these strains? İ know mold 600 but what is this new mold 800... İs it better in your opinion?

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

There are lots of culture to choose from and the decision can be overwhelming. Here's the long and short of it: BLC-78 - Don't buy as it's marketed for whole muscles but I don't find that it's useful (IMO) SM194 - Brand new culture that contains a yeast. Haven't tried it yet but I have some on order. LHP - This is a culture that is fast acidification to be used for sausages where you want a tangy flavor FRM-52 - This is a culture that is fast acidification to be used for sausages where you want a tangy flavor FLC - This culture can be used to produce either traditional European salami or North American Tangy salami (depending on the amount of dextrose that is added and the temperature you ferment at). Also has bio-protective qualities Flavor of Italy - Fast acidification but mainly used to make traditional European salami that isn't tangy. Usually ferments in 24 hours TSPX- Slow acidification and used to make traditional European salami that isn't tangy. Usually ferments in 48-72 hours I personally like flavor of Italy (for traditional salami) and LHP (for tangy salami/sausages) but each one delivers a slightly different flavor. As far as mold goes. The new mold (Mold 800) looks interesting. I like the addition of candidum. I haven't tried it yet but this past friday I ordered a pack. Hope that helps

@ftmhlcv4645

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler You are a life saver dude. İ Finally had my inkbird equipment arrive searching for a 2nd hand single handle fridge at the moment. İ Talked with Apera instruments and they recommended a portable meat thermometer instead of the ph60s pen style thermometer? DO you think its worth it to spend a couple hundred more and get a ph8500mt? İt appears to have a steel probe instead of a swiss spear probe. İ wonder if this type of ph meter probe would last longer than 1.5 years....

I just put together 40 # of soppressata, using beef middles, and I added the Bactoferm FRM 52, will my salami still be o.k

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

Sure. Just ferment till the ph gets to 4.9ish. you will be good to go..

I clearly should have watched this video before purchasing starter culture! We purchased a Flavor of Italy starter culture called “Safe Pro Flora Italia LC US”. What kind is that supposed to be used for? Can it be substituted for the T-SPX for making Calabrese?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Hello. Lol. You are in good hands with flavor of italy. It's a great starter. Here's a video I made on it. kzread.info/dash/bejne/gq2kmrOuaKWrh9o.html This would be great in a calabrese salami. Just make sure to only add .2% dextrose to the recipe. It'll ferment in under 24 hours😁 Let me know if you have any questions

@gretchenpfeifer9640

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Hypothetically... LOL... if one did not add any dextrose but did put the wine and normal sugar that your recipe called for what will happen? Will it not have enough food to fully ferment or just take longer?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

@@gretchenpfeifer9640 flav of italy can't process normal sugars. Only simple sugars. So if you only added wine (which has glucose and fructose) in theory it should ferment only slower. Honey would also work (fyi) as it's made up of simple sugars

There’s some evidence to suggest fermented sausage is better for your health with the fermentation process breaking down lectins. Is there a starter culture that could be used in a fresh sausage application similar to a Toulouse sausage? Is koji an option for fresh sausage making?

@kindageeky2

6 ай бұрын

@2guysandacooler would love your advice / thoughts

Do you have a simple salami recipe that spells out the ingredients and quantities and goes through the process in easy to understand terms using the products you have mentioned.?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Of course. Check this out: twoguysandacooler.com/salami/

Hi I am peter, from Patzcuaro MEXICO. we make salami and all sorts of sausages for home and friends , about 20 kilos every 15 days . sometimes, the interior of our salami goes all wrong ... its pale , and has spaces. I know its a bacterial problem, and maybe an acitity issue , but I cannot buy any starter culture here in mexico.... at least I just cannot find a supplier / vendor . My question is , how can I replace starter culture .... naturally .... maybe some cheese making culture or beer starter ??? Thanks .

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hola, There are a few ingredients you can use to acidify the salami. You can use fresh garlic, sauerkraut juice, anything with Lactobacillus bacteria. You will sacrifice flavor development as the real gem in long cured salami is the bacteria staphylococcus. I'm doing a series on Making salami using non traditional ingredients to ferment. Here's the first one... kzread.info/dash/bejne/nmiNzrN9ha3QhpM.html

I'm confused over difference between a particular starter culture and 'Mold 600'. Two different things?

@2guysandacooler

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Starter cultures are bacteria that eat sugar and produce lactic acid. Mold 600 is a strain of mold called penicillium nalgiovense. The mold grows on the outside of your salami and needs oxygen to survive, while the bacteria are on the inside of your salami and don't require oxygen to survive..

I noticed that all three packages said store below 17°C. However when ordering to where I live it takes 1 to 2 weeks before I get it, even with airfreight and since I live in the tropics that will mean that a good part of the journey the temperature will be above 30°C. Will the starter culture still work after such a journey or are there other starter cultures that can be stored at higher temperatures

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

I live in the tropics as well. The most this can travel outside of refrigeration in 12-14 days. I get my cultures shipped by plane and they still take about 10 days to reach me but I never have had a problem..

@taalmans7958

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Thank you for the answer. In that case I will give it a try

@taalmans7958

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Do you live in the USA? Because I tried to order at the sausagemaker what you recommend in your videos. However when I order they say that they don't ship these products outside of the USA :-(

@ftmhlcv4645

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler should the chr hansen cultures be frozen or kept in fridge?

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

@@ftmhlcv4645 keep them in the freezer

If you use Red wine in your mix. You won't need to use this. Correct?

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Discusctx, That's not how it works. Wine by itself does not provide the necessary biological reaction to help drop the PH. These cultures that we discussed in this video are in place to allow the meat to ferment and the wine is more of a food for the bacteria cultures. During the fermentation process (think of sauerkraut, kim chi, fish sauce, sake) the bacteria are consuming food (sugar) and are releasing lactic acid. This is what drops the ph. This lowered Ph is a safety hurdle that we have to achieve in order to have a safe product to eat. Does that make sense?

Can you ferment bactoferm f-lc in a salami at 100 then at 75 or vice versa?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Todd. Not sure I understand the question. Flc is a unique culture that be used for fast acidification or slow acidification depending on what you are making. If you want to make a fast acidified sausage like pepperoni or summer sausage you could ferment your meat (with the appropriate amount of dextrose in it) at 100F for 24-36 hours and it will drop the pH very quickly to give you a nice sourly sausage. The pH target for this type of salami is 4.7-4.8 On the other hand if you want to make a more traditional Italian style of salami you can ferment the salami at lower temps like 75F (with the appropriate amount of sugar) for 48 hours and it will produce an Italian style of salami without the sourly flavors.. The target pH for this is 5.0-5.2 It has to be one or the other. Once finished and the pH is reached you would then start drying or cooking depending on what you were making

Hi! I see you use Hansen. I have one for yogurt but I don’t know how much I should put in a litro of milk. The whole pack is for 250 lt. Can you help? Thank you

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

for yogurt it's usually a very small amount. I would start with 1/16 - 1/8 tsp per liter. It really all depends on the starter that you have

@1178tinkerbell

2 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler thank you 🙏

How to revert hard casening coppa? My mold takes 1 week to show in my chamber

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Cesar, What is your humidity setting at in your chamber? What percentage weight loss is your coppa at? Dry rim on a coppa is a tricky thing. It depends on how dry it is and what the inside looks like. The easiest way to fix a dry rim is it's not too bad is to vacuum seal your coppa and place it in the fridge for about 6 weeks. This will equalize the moisture from the center and draw it out towards the outer rim.

@cesarstoer

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much to reply. Im from Brazil and discover your brillant channel today, awesome content. The humidity in my curing room is at 75-80%, but what concerns me is the Wind from the cold evaporator, with 2 fans working all the time. The weight loss is about 13-16% in 10 days in coppas with 12-18cm width.

@2guysandacooler

5 жыл бұрын

@@cesarstoer Humidity sounds right but it's drying super fast. If you leave it in there the center will spoil as the moisture will not be able to escape. A 7 inch coppa should take roughly 10-12+ weeks to dry properly (35%). Fans in your chamber are most likely the issue. Can you disconnect the fans and add a small computer fan? That's what I ended up doing to make it work for me..

I do an large amount of Lacto-Fermentation of veggies and veggie juices etc. In my veggie ferments I usually end up with a surplus of Lacto Bacillus white mold in my fermentation vessels that I wonder if harvested could be used for fermenting Salami / Salumi? I presently am using some Lacto Bacillus culture that I harvested some 3 years ago, and it is vigorous and so far never failed in veggies. As it is a Lacto culture..... Id be interested in trying it on Salami etc but the cost of meats her is just ridiculous. Help?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

I can tell you without a doubt that it works. I have a video on that very topic: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nmiNzrN9ha3QhpM.html

@Lighthouse-Keeper

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Hi and ty for the reply. Im not sure if we are on the same page, but believe we may be a paragraph off. I saw in your kimchi vid that you still spritzed mold600 on the salami ? I dont want to do that if I dont have to... as mentioned, I have a hole lot of Lacto Bacillus from lacto fermenting veggies. Can I use my harvested Lacto Bacillus ONLY.... in the curing of Salumi / Salami? On a budget, so If I endeavor to take on such a project... I have the Mrs's eyes on my pocket book lmao....... she dont know about the Swiis account hehe. Just kidding.... more like the Calcutta Account.

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lighthouse-Keeper OK. Still not entirely sure what you mean but here we go. When you make sauerkraut you are going to have a liquid that is full of lactobacillus bacteria AND you will often have a white yeast that forms on top called Kahm. If you use the liquid you will be able to ferment your salami. On a different note curing your salami is something completely different. For that you will need salt and instacure #2

Using T-SPX my pH dropped to 4.9 I understand that this make the staph less efficient but is it a safety concern? Also, how do you keep the pH from dropping below 5.0?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Clayton. I wouldn't worry about it too much especially if you add Mold-600 to your salami. The mold will raise the pH a little bit during the drying stage. To answer your question though, there are a couple ways. You can check the ph sooner and place it in the drying chamber or next time you make salami with TSPX use slightly less dextrose.

@claytonh100

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler 10 4 thanks for the pointers.

How do you store a culture?

@2guysandacooler

2 жыл бұрын

I vac seal the little pouch and place it in the freezer

Great Video. Need to find your other videos on Utube. Do you offer recipes that you’ve found to work well? Do you offer your phone # or email address to ask questions?

in my country, I am unable to find starter culture. Any substitute

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

naturally fermented sauerkraut juice :)

Hey! Thank you so much for this info! I have a question, which starter culture do i use for curing a whole muscle (capicolo)? And how would i add it to the meat? Thanks in advanced

@rrmerlin3402

3 жыл бұрын

You don't. Starter cultures are used only on ground products, whole muscle is cured with salt.

Great video but it left me confused about T-SPX. The sausagemaker site says specifically "if using SPX for traditional method of drying this culture will NOT provide food safety by lowering pH". On the other hand your video touted SPX as your preferred culture and made mention of the Pediococus strain for lactic acid pH reduction. I ask because my friend and I lost an entire batch of salami made with SPX. It was fermented for two to three days then put into the drying chamber. When done it sort of tasted rotten, had poor texture and well was a great candidate for the trash can. When I saw the note about SPX not lowering pH I was quick to think I found the culprit, but then I watched your video and had second thoughts. So what exactly does the note about the SPX mean and What would the fermentation ritual with SPX look like - temp, RH and duration? Thanks, I don´t expect you to figure out why we lost our batch but maybe we can figure out how to avoid it a second time.

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

Hey James. Thanks for the question. Lets see if I can explain it a little clearer. Tspx reduces the ph by lactic acid producing bacteria. The target pH for TSPX is around 5.0-5.3 in order to achieve the best results for this culture. pH drop is only one of several hurdles that need to be achieved to have a safe product. Things like salt content, curing salt, water activity, fermentation all contribute to having a delicious and safe product to eat. Ph drop alone isn't enough as some bacteria can still survive at this range. Listeria and botulism for example can live in pH as low as 4.0- 4.6. There are other cultures that are for salami that drop the pH and offer additional protection against unwanted bacteria. Cultures like "The Flavor of Italy: www.sausagemaker.com/Flavor-of-Italy-Bactoferm-p/11-1316.htm&Click=108419 ". Regardless of the culture that you use though if you have the right amount of salt, the right amount of dextrose, the right amount of curing salt, the proper fermentation and drying conditions then you are almost guaranteed a safe product.. To make salami using TSPX in your recipe you would add anywhere between .2% and .5% dextrose to feed the bacteria. This along with the rest of your ingredients. Salt should be between 2.25% and 3.0% and curing salt should be around .25% cure #2 (if the diameter of your salami is larger than 40mm). Finally you need to add 1/2 tsp of tspx to 10 pounds of meat (make sure it's not expired and kept in the freezer until used). Once everything is mixed well (very tacky) stuff into casings ensuring there are no air pockets. Then place in a fermentation area. The conditions for TSPX to ferment nicely should be between 65F and 75F at 90% humidity for 48-72 hours. I normally check the pH of mine at the 36-48 hour mark. Ph is the determining factor as to when to transfer it to the drying stage. Once the pH drops below 5.3 you are good to go. Like I said earlier this is one of the main hurdles that a salumist must cross. Once it's transferred to the drying area you must have a temp of around 55F and humidity between 75%-80%. It stays like this until the salami has lost 35-40% weight loss. So in a nutshell this is how it's done. I have lots of salami making tutorials that might help you in the process but if you share with me your recipe, process, fermenting temp and humidity, ph reading after fermentation, diameter of salami, I can just about narrow down the area that went wrong. I'm working on a tspx video to explain the finer points of it as I made sopressata with it and that should be finished in the next few weeks.. I hope this helps. Be sure to sub as I try to cover all the details about making a safe and yummy product, and I always answer questions about making salami.

@jamesaliperti178

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Wow, I never expected such a fast and thorough response. Thanks so much. I live in Brazil and have a problem with supply of cultures. I bring them from the US when I travel. I use recipes from Rulhlmans “Salumi”. He is heavy handed on culture dosage - 10gr of F-RM52 for 2.5 kilos of meat and only 12 hours fermentation. So the packages of culture don´t last very long - 2 or 3 small batches. There is what seems to be a reasonable substitute for f-RM52 down here made by Sacco - SBM11 - Staph xylosus, Staph carnosus and LB Sakei. I am thinking direct substitution but still want to see how I can get more usage out of each package - any thoughts about the question of grams/kilo and substituting FRM52 for SBM11 are welcome but then again I don´t expect you to be my personal consultant ;-)! Have a great weekend and thanks again for the lightening quick reply.

@2guysandacooler

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamesaliperti178 Yes. He is a bit heavy handed on the starter cultures and it's totally unnecessary. Generally the recommended amount is .022% of the weight of the meat but that number is usually so low that you either run the risk on not being able to weigh it properly or not adding enough culture (there is a filler in each bag in addition to culture) I've found as a rule of thumb for most cultures you can use 1/2 tsp per 10 pounds of meat. The culture you mention seems to be a better tspx substitute as it contains more pH sensitive bacteria. I would target a 5.1 Ph and ferment at 68-75F. With this culture it should take about 36-48 hours with a .2%-.4% dextrose added.

@jamesaliperti178

4 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Great Help!! Thank you so much - if you are ver in Rio.............

@matheuscecilio6293

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesaliperti178 procura na fscomercial online. tem tspx, mold 600 e alguns outros...

Italian salami is more rough on the taste and not as nicely polished like French salami. I think it tastes more acidic than the French salami

Hi Eric. I not able to get that salami taste in my dried sausages. I have used txpx and besssastart cultures with horrible results in terms of taste - basically I couldn't eat it. I have fermented anywhere from 1 to 3 days in the oven at room temperature. I think the best taste I couldn't get was with a dried 30mm sausage, kept at room temperature for 12h and then dried - no culture used in that one. as Soon as I use the culture the taste is shitty. What am I doing wrong? 😐

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Can you describe the taste to me and if you don't mind would you share with me your recipe so I can see what we are working with...

@stoicaalex90

3 жыл бұрын

So the ones dried in natural casing are kind of sour and they don't taste like any salami, more like a dried sausage and that's it. The ones dried in umai bags in regular fridge were garbage and I threw them away. hard to describe the taste of these ones. I get great texture, particle definition etc but weird taste. tried various receipes but mainly 3% salt, 0.4 pepper, 0.25% #2, 0.4% garlic powder or 2-3cloves of garlic soaked in wine per kg of meat, 0. 3% dextroze, 0.3% brown sugar. and then a few variations with paprika, red/white wine, cloves, nutmeg and chilli. Tried 100% pork, 70% pork 30% beef, 50%venison 50%pork. I did some smoked summer sausage and that was pretty awesome - thanks for that video 👌

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. Are you able to test the pH of your salami after fermentation? Sounds like it was fermented to the mid 4's

@stoicaalex90

3 жыл бұрын

no yet but I will get a pH meter before I make another batch as I don't want to waste any more meat. do you always recommend 4.8-5.2 pH for all salamis regardless the receipes and meat type?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

It all depends on the type of flavor you are looking for. If you want a traditionally Italian style of flavor you would shoot for 5.0-5.2. If you want a sourly type of salami like in summer sausage you would shoot for 4.6-4.8. It all depends on the starter culture you use. The TSPX types of cultures work best when the pH is 5.0 to 5.2.

Hi Eric. Thanks for the video. Well, I'm trying some salami with no commercial starter cultures, like cheese, sauekraut and fermented milk (yakult). Reading about the microflora in different fermented products, it occurred to me to try fermentation with kefir. It seems to be formed by some lactic acid bacteria, but it also has some contaminants. Anyway, have you ever tried it? Do you think it makes sense to try it, even with those different bacterias? Here is a print from a book I found this information about the kefir microflora. It doesn't have exactly the same bacteria, but I'm thinking about trying a small batch to see what happens. drive.google.com/file/d/1G_wlBK_5Rx44NsPHDPAt7Uf0DY76q_h8/view?usp=sharing source from the print: Food Microbiology Principles into Practice. Volume 2: Microorganisms in Food. Osman Erkmen & T. Faruk Bozoglu. Chapter 14 Thank you. Regards from Brazil!!

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

Funny you should mention that. I have plans to get a batch of salami going with kefir. I've used sauerkraut juice with no problems. Also going to experiment with fresh garlic, kombucha, yogurt, and beet juice to see what happens. Lots of alternatives..

@matheuscecilio6293

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Thanks! I'll let you know what happens to my trial.

@matheuscecilio6293

3 жыл бұрын

@@2guysandacooler Hey, let me ask you another question. It seems that we have phmeters for liquids and phmeters for semi-solids, used for cheese, grounded meat, cosmetics etc. I'm thinkin about getting one, but the semi-solids phmeter is the double of the price of a normal liquid one. Checking the link you put of MILWAUKEE PH METER, it seems that it's a liquid probe device. Do you use it in grounded meats? Does it work well? Or you highly recommend me to get an specific one wth an adequate probe for semi solids?

@2guysandacooler

3 жыл бұрын

@@matheuscecilio6293 I really need to update those older posts. I didn't have the best of success with that probe. This one from Apera is my choice amzn.to/2A04Gll I've been using it now for some time and just love it. They have a wifi version and a regular version. My recommendation is to get one with a spear probe if you plan on doing meats and cheeses (it also does liquids as well)

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