Designing and testing TTRPG systems. Panelists: Ravyn Evermore Thu 5PM - Gygax room Gaming Track --- Edited by: Jeff Jensen
Жүктеу.....
Пікірлер: 52
@RkmSkmRobotsLP2 жыл бұрын
"Doesn't look like we have any questions..." Bruh
@age-of-adventure
2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
@qsviewsrpgs45712 жыл бұрын
As one who has been developing my own game over the last 36 years, only recently has it come to a form that I feel comfortable releasing to the public. You present a lot of great advice and I can attest that nearly all of them applied to my situation. Thank you for taking the time to break this all down and share it. Cheers!
@bosh6604
Жыл бұрын
Can I find it somewhere? :D
@DolkkarToyznstuff
Жыл бұрын
@@bosh6604 Yes, but I don't wish to advertise myself here.
@heereswhoever20332 жыл бұрын
How does this have so few views? it's much better than many of the other videos i've seen on this subject.
@projectcancelled2190
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe because he’s asked questions then cuts them off and says there’s no questions lol
@SkySpiral7_Lets_play
Жыл бұрын
Lol at not being able to hear the other guy. But that does make it less professional looking. A bigger problem is that this video lacks presentation: it's just him with a blank wall and no text or graphics etc. This fits better as a podcast but with video I expect a little more.
@SavageGreywolf
Жыл бұрын
The biggest issue is probably that it's 43 minutes long. Meaning that only someone who is _really_ interested is going to watch it.
@HekylHyde
Жыл бұрын
I respect the content. But it is very hard to take seriously someone discussing a heavy topic while wearing pajamas in front of a green screen that appears to have no structure or organization. The presentation makes us incredibly difficult to consume.
@Z0mbicore
Жыл бұрын
You can just listen to it as a podcast. I don't see the issue here.
@readingdino7114 ай бұрын
This helped my cat themed ttrpg a lot. Thanks! I'll definitely be checking out other videos from you!
@GrinningAries2 жыл бұрын
I'm just listening while doing chores. Little confused, I keep hearing a voice posing questions from chat and then Ravyn talking over the voice and saying "well if there no more questions..". Technical issues?
@hellopeople65043 жыл бұрын
this is so helpful..thanks!
@whitemansucks Жыл бұрын
this is awesome!
@crazy36069 Жыл бұрын
Thanks mate, now I can make my own campaign and leave D&D.
@ladyofpain Жыл бұрын
This is very good!
@DOU6LEJAY Жыл бұрын
Im making a tabletop roleplaying game called cards and cobolds. It takes place in the dungeons and dragons universe.
@SkySpiral7_Lets_play Жыл бұрын
It's funny but unfortunate that you couldn't hear the other guy. Cortex would be a polyhedral system (not d12 system). 11:04 That's called the sunk cost fallacy. 36:35 I see results for "For the Queen"
@parttimed.m.11112 жыл бұрын
This seems to be 80% self advertising. I have found it almost impossible to find legit workshops on here for this subject
@NecromancyForKids
Жыл бұрын
Nah, I think this has a lot of good basic information for beginners
@parttimed.m.1111
6 ай бұрын
I agree. Closest I came was a seminar from a gen con a while back by sandy Peterson I believe
@link77779 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. I think this'll be very helpful for putting something together. I do find it slightly odd that there's no addressing of the technical issues anywhere, not even in the description or a pinned comment. Feel very bad for the guy trying to field questions for you. I know this is a two year old stream as of this comment, but it just strikes me as odd that you didn't even bother checking for technical difficulties after not hearing anything from your producer.
@age-of-adventure2 жыл бұрын
Ravyn: “OMG! OMG! No one is asking any questions…. Keep talking, keep talking…” Producer: “OMG! OMG! He can’t hear me, he can’t hear me…” 🤣
@Drawoon
2 жыл бұрын
Wait, "he"? I figured Ravyn would use she/her pronouns Edit: looking online, she does seem to use she/her pronouns
@kirkwagner461
Жыл бұрын
Gotta give Ravyn props for filling in what seemed like "dead air." Well done there!
@Z0mbicore
Жыл бұрын
@@Drawoon he obviously a dude.
@Drawoon
Жыл бұрын
@@Z0mbicore alright buddy
@nowayjosedaniel10 ай бұрын
I dislike the close minded nature of designers to think there are 3 pillars (Combat, Explore, Social) (or in D&D 3.0+ Combat Combat Combat). There can be more than 3 pillars. My ttrpg has 5. 6 if you run the cyberpunk version. You could argue it isnt 5, it is 4, but meh. Each of the 5 subsystems have 2 skill types with 1 Attribute & 4 skills in each type. This doesnt include the Magic system, but that isn't a gameplay system or gameplay facet. The magic types are like skill types, but apply to different facets or even overlap facets. 1. Combat 2. Social 3. Travel (Hexcrawl & Survival / Camping) 4. Information (Exploration & Investigation) 5. Movement (Stealth, Chase/Escapes, & Obstacles) Overcoming Obstacles could be considered Exploration, but Chase scenes? Ehhh. Exploration could include all information, but when you're lumping Exploration in with everything to do with Investigation, Information, Obstacles, and Stealth? That's a lot when it already has a lot to it without those things. Then you add Travel to exploration too? That's a lot crammed in there. Meanwhile Combat is a facet that is absolutely singular in nature and consists of only variant forms of Combat (Mass Battles, Duels, Skirmishes, Calvary, etc.) Social is also singular in nature. But everything else that isnt Social or Combat os crammed in Exploration. This is so silly and close minded. And it makes game design in a box. So I dislike this mindset of "the 3 facets".
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
I much prefer rhetoric like "Think of gameplay facets that can have their own system design. An example os the 3 tropes in D&D even though D&D really only has two facets (Combat & Skill Rolls). Oh also, I was wrong and apparently Roleplay is the 3rd facet, not Social scenes. In this example. Which goes to show how designers dont even have the 3 facets consistent among themselves. Some say it is Roleplay while others Social scenes. Yet there is a big difference there. Roleplay is its own thing, and I guess it could include social encounters for bad designs like D&D which dont faciliate social scenes at all, but for games that DO have social mechanics the systems determine a lot of what you roleplay - just like combat can influence roleplay. So it depends on what you mena by facet.
@KenKthulhu3 ай бұрын
But ... I gotta get it out next month.
@RabaShibaRabaSha6 ай бұрын
What is this big d&d world you're talking about at 19:28 ?
@Drudenfusz2 жыл бұрын
I think those pillars are really that meaningful. Sure, D&D is built around them, but honestly they seem only interesting if one whats to create a sandbox simulation world, the moment one has a very different kind of experience in mind none of those might be relevant (yes, not even the RP aspect).
@enthurian100
Жыл бұрын
Well at that point it's not a ttrpg, it's just a board game. Which is fine if that's what you want to make, but ttrpg's require roleplaying to be considered a ttrpg (table top Role Playing game).
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
@@enthurian100Let's be honest here: a large percentage of D&D games are combat exclusive with no roleplaying. In fact it is extremely common for players to just always play themselves, no matter what. So no, a ttrpg doesnt require roleplaying. D&D 5e is a great example of this despite its shitty combat.
@enthurian100
10 ай бұрын
@@nowayjosedaniel You're argument here isn't really valid. I was arguing about semantics, you seem to be making a practical argument, so our points are mutually exclusive.
@mascamuelassmith80884 ай бұрын
Try taking a shot or vodka every time he says "uuuh" "ahm"... You'll be dead in the first 2 minutes
@kilby-cj4ri2 жыл бұрын
This dude says ugh alot
@Gabrong Жыл бұрын
even though dnd is "combat focused" actual combat is pretty bad in it
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
D&D is just total garbage. Old School D&D is okay tho.
@tavaroevanis8744
9 ай бұрын
There are many D&D derivatives that do high fantasy far better than D&D. Even Pathfinder 2, a game with strong D&D genetics, does combat WAY better than D&D ever ever has. In fact, I would advise the study of D&D5E as an example of what NOT to do in your own game.
@mattm4603 Жыл бұрын
Seems like good info but it is difficult to listen to someone who says umm every other word. Maybe “playtest” your presentations first? I’m not being snarky here, I earnestly think it gets in the way of people hearing the good wisdom and knowledge you have to offer.
@thecrazyturtle2 жыл бұрын
you are not listening to your question guy
@Drudenfusz
2 жыл бұрын
I guess they didn't heard him.
@Leverquin10 ай бұрын
dont get me wrong but for practical reason just play GURPS. you can do anything you like
@AyameAkito Жыл бұрын
Okay first of, if you are interested in making your own TRPG please move away from systems like Lumen, 5e DnD and PBtA, look at systems like Savage Worlds, World Of Darkness, Chronicles of Darkness, FATE, Fudge system, Call of Cthulhu, Shadow of the Demon Lord (which is a nice improvement on the base D20 system), Traveler, 7th Sea, Symbaroum (the not 5e version of the game), Mutant Year Zero, Forbidden Lands, Legend of the Five Rings, there is a myriad of varied and interesting systems with unique mechanics and ideas to be inspired for that aren't 5e, PBtA or Lumen, as to why i speak against this systems is because 5e doesn't work for anything but 5e despite whatever 5e fans say about, PBtA is a system that is incredibly flawed and make for stale characters in a long term campaign as characters are bound to their playbooks in every interation of this system and it always end up falling short and Lumen is quite honestly a mess.
@AyameAkito
Жыл бұрын
Also as a rule of thumb, if you aim to create an interesting magic system, please move away from vancian magic, the whole system is a crutch and despite what people thing 5e still uses it.
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
5e doesnt even work for 5e. That's a big reason why so much homebrew and alternative d20 5e-likes exist.
@fecalmatter1111 Жыл бұрын
The "uh" makes this painful to listen to
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
Grow up
@visionaeon9 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but the "Uh" and "Uhm" every single sentence is like torture for me.
Пікірлер: 52
"Doesn't look like we have any questions..." Bruh
@age-of-adventure
2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
As one who has been developing my own game over the last 36 years, only recently has it come to a form that I feel comfortable releasing to the public. You present a lot of great advice and I can attest that nearly all of them applied to my situation. Thank you for taking the time to break this all down and share it. Cheers!
@bosh6604
Жыл бұрын
Can I find it somewhere? :D
@DolkkarToyznstuff
Жыл бұрын
@@bosh6604 Yes, but I don't wish to advertise myself here.
How does this have so few views? it's much better than many of the other videos i've seen on this subject.
@projectcancelled2190
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe because he’s asked questions then cuts them off and says there’s no questions lol
@SkySpiral7_Lets_play
Жыл бұрын
Lol at not being able to hear the other guy. But that does make it less professional looking. A bigger problem is that this video lacks presentation: it's just him with a blank wall and no text or graphics etc. This fits better as a podcast but with video I expect a little more.
@SavageGreywolf
Жыл бұрын
The biggest issue is probably that it's 43 minutes long. Meaning that only someone who is _really_ interested is going to watch it.
@HekylHyde
Жыл бұрын
I respect the content. But it is very hard to take seriously someone discussing a heavy topic while wearing pajamas in front of a green screen that appears to have no structure or organization. The presentation makes us incredibly difficult to consume.
@Z0mbicore
Жыл бұрын
You can just listen to it as a podcast. I don't see the issue here.
This helped my cat themed ttrpg a lot. Thanks! I'll definitely be checking out other videos from you!
I'm just listening while doing chores. Little confused, I keep hearing a voice posing questions from chat and then Ravyn talking over the voice and saying "well if there no more questions..". Technical issues?
this is so helpful..thanks!
this is awesome!
Thanks mate, now I can make my own campaign and leave D&D.
This is very good!
Im making a tabletop roleplaying game called cards and cobolds. It takes place in the dungeons and dragons universe.
It's funny but unfortunate that you couldn't hear the other guy. Cortex would be a polyhedral system (not d12 system). 11:04 That's called the sunk cost fallacy. 36:35 I see results for "For the Queen"
This seems to be 80% self advertising. I have found it almost impossible to find legit workshops on here for this subject
@NecromancyForKids
Жыл бұрын
Nah, I think this has a lot of good basic information for beginners
@parttimed.m.1111
6 ай бұрын
I agree. Closest I came was a seminar from a gen con a while back by sandy Peterson I believe
Thanks for the info. I think this'll be very helpful for putting something together. I do find it slightly odd that there's no addressing of the technical issues anywhere, not even in the description or a pinned comment. Feel very bad for the guy trying to field questions for you. I know this is a two year old stream as of this comment, but it just strikes me as odd that you didn't even bother checking for technical difficulties after not hearing anything from your producer.
Ravyn: “OMG! OMG! No one is asking any questions…. Keep talking, keep talking…” Producer: “OMG! OMG! He can’t hear me, he can’t hear me…” 🤣
@Drawoon
2 жыл бұрын
Wait, "he"? I figured Ravyn would use she/her pronouns Edit: looking online, she does seem to use she/her pronouns
@kirkwagner461
Жыл бұрын
Gotta give Ravyn props for filling in what seemed like "dead air." Well done there!
@Z0mbicore
Жыл бұрын
@@Drawoon he obviously a dude.
@Drawoon
Жыл бұрын
@@Z0mbicore alright buddy
I dislike the close minded nature of designers to think there are 3 pillars (Combat, Explore, Social) (or in D&D 3.0+ Combat Combat Combat). There can be more than 3 pillars. My ttrpg has 5. 6 if you run the cyberpunk version. You could argue it isnt 5, it is 4, but meh. Each of the 5 subsystems have 2 skill types with 1 Attribute & 4 skills in each type. This doesnt include the Magic system, but that isn't a gameplay system or gameplay facet. The magic types are like skill types, but apply to different facets or even overlap facets. 1. Combat 2. Social 3. Travel (Hexcrawl & Survival / Camping) 4. Information (Exploration & Investigation) 5. Movement (Stealth, Chase/Escapes, & Obstacles) Overcoming Obstacles could be considered Exploration, but Chase scenes? Ehhh. Exploration could include all information, but when you're lumping Exploration in with everything to do with Investigation, Information, Obstacles, and Stealth? That's a lot when it already has a lot to it without those things. Then you add Travel to exploration too? That's a lot crammed in there. Meanwhile Combat is a facet that is absolutely singular in nature and consists of only variant forms of Combat (Mass Battles, Duels, Skirmishes, Calvary, etc.) Social is also singular in nature. But everything else that isnt Social or Combat os crammed in Exploration. This is so silly and close minded. And it makes game design in a box. So I dislike this mindset of "the 3 facets".
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
I much prefer rhetoric like "Think of gameplay facets that can have their own system design. An example os the 3 tropes in D&D even though D&D really only has two facets (Combat & Skill Rolls). Oh also, I was wrong and apparently Roleplay is the 3rd facet, not Social scenes. In this example. Which goes to show how designers dont even have the 3 facets consistent among themselves. Some say it is Roleplay while others Social scenes. Yet there is a big difference there. Roleplay is its own thing, and I guess it could include social encounters for bad designs like D&D which dont faciliate social scenes at all, but for games that DO have social mechanics the systems determine a lot of what you roleplay - just like combat can influence roleplay. So it depends on what you mena by facet.
But ... I gotta get it out next month.
What is this big d&d world you're talking about at 19:28 ?
I think those pillars are really that meaningful. Sure, D&D is built around them, but honestly they seem only interesting if one whats to create a sandbox simulation world, the moment one has a very different kind of experience in mind none of those might be relevant (yes, not even the RP aspect).
@enthurian100
Жыл бұрын
Well at that point it's not a ttrpg, it's just a board game. Which is fine if that's what you want to make, but ttrpg's require roleplaying to be considered a ttrpg (table top Role Playing game).
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
@@enthurian100Let's be honest here: a large percentage of D&D games are combat exclusive with no roleplaying. In fact it is extremely common for players to just always play themselves, no matter what. So no, a ttrpg doesnt require roleplaying. D&D 5e is a great example of this despite its shitty combat.
@enthurian100
10 ай бұрын
@@nowayjosedaniel You're argument here isn't really valid. I was arguing about semantics, you seem to be making a practical argument, so our points are mutually exclusive.
Try taking a shot or vodka every time he says "uuuh" "ahm"... You'll be dead in the first 2 minutes
This dude says ugh alot
even though dnd is "combat focused" actual combat is pretty bad in it
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
D&D is just total garbage. Old School D&D is okay tho.
@tavaroevanis8744
9 ай бұрын
There are many D&D derivatives that do high fantasy far better than D&D. Even Pathfinder 2, a game with strong D&D genetics, does combat WAY better than D&D ever ever has. In fact, I would advise the study of D&D5E as an example of what NOT to do in your own game.
Seems like good info but it is difficult to listen to someone who says umm every other word. Maybe “playtest” your presentations first? I’m not being snarky here, I earnestly think it gets in the way of people hearing the good wisdom and knowledge you have to offer.
you are not listening to your question guy
@Drudenfusz
2 жыл бұрын
I guess they didn't heard him.
dont get me wrong but for practical reason just play GURPS. you can do anything you like
Okay first of, if you are interested in making your own TRPG please move away from systems like Lumen, 5e DnD and PBtA, look at systems like Savage Worlds, World Of Darkness, Chronicles of Darkness, FATE, Fudge system, Call of Cthulhu, Shadow of the Demon Lord (which is a nice improvement on the base D20 system), Traveler, 7th Sea, Symbaroum (the not 5e version of the game), Mutant Year Zero, Forbidden Lands, Legend of the Five Rings, there is a myriad of varied and interesting systems with unique mechanics and ideas to be inspired for that aren't 5e, PBtA or Lumen, as to why i speak against this systems is because 5e doesn't work for anything but 5e despite whatever 5e fans say about, PBtA is a system that is incredibly flawed and make for stale characters in a long term campaign as characters are bound to their playbooks in every interation of this system and it always end up falling short and Lumen is quite honestly a mess.
@AyameAkito
Жыл бұрын
Also as a rule of thumb, if you aim to create an interesting magic system, please move away from vancian magic, the whole system is a crutch and despite what people thing 5e still uses it.
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
5e doesnt even work for 5e. That's a big reason why so much homebrew and alternative d20 5e-likes exist.
The "uh" makes this painful to listen to
@nowayjosedaniel
10 ай бұрын
Grow up
I'm sorry but the "Uh" and "Uhm" every single sentence is like torture for me.