Can we please get past the criticism that Hob’s character is in the movie to appeal to kids? That is not the case at all here. No kid is gonna cheer at the sight of him strangling Lewis or even worse when he cuts out Murphy’s guts and shows them to his face. His character is there to further represent how fucked up this environment is and how it can affect someone his age. The reason we flashback to Murphy’s son is to iterate that if RoboCop doesn’t stop this Nuke cult, his son could end up like Hob.

That moment when they torture Duffy is horrifying, it traumatised me when I saw it when young. His screaming are horrific.

@VenusHeadTrap2

Ай бұрын

There's a cool Industrial song called "Bio Mechanic" that samples that scene. It's dark and brilliant

I really love these commetaries. Thank you both. That being said, I must take issue with the things Robb said about Roger Ebert. Putting aside the fact that Ebert won the first Pulitzer in film criticsm-all film critics owe a debt to him-and the fact that his reviews, along with Pauline Kael’s are some of the best written film critiques for general audiences ever written, I would take issue with Robb’s notion that he is at fundamental odds with you and your good-bad movies. It was Ebert’s job and career to discern the best in film and he did admirablly. Indeed, his Great Movies list on his website is a marvelous resource for anybody interested in film history. There is a difference between a stance of principles-I read as moralistic and overly rigid critic, and that of an intelligent and subtle critic of what ultimately what makes a film truly a work of art/great. The former is a matter of morals, the latter technique. The point here is there is nothing that in “principle” you two are at odds with. It was not philosophical for Ebert, at least not in the way you suggest. It was his job and he was anything but over moralistic or rigid. It was not a moral crusade as you tend to suggest for Ebert. Indeed, Ebert could see and admire the stuff you wonderfully chronicle on your KZread channel. Remember, that Ebert wrote the screenplay for the schlocky, Valley of the Dolls. It is also telling Robb that you find yourself agreeing with his point on this film at least 2 times. If you want a target/reviewer that would be in principle oppossed to the movies you analyze it would be someone like the late John Simon or Malcolm Muggeridge. Anyway, thanks again for your work on these commentaries. Keep up the good work. I hope this is read as positive criticism. Cheers lads!

A Underrated sequel

@VenusHeadTrap2

Ай бұрын

GFYS

@leejones8582

Ай бұрын

@@VenusHeadTrap2 ??

I love Robocop 2 !!!!

Nice commentary, Oliver! In regards to what you said about the change in composer, I think they chose a new score because the original Robocop was basically a Greek tragedy (with the hero's murder & resurrection), while Robocop 2 was basically a comic book movie, so the shift in tone suited a new music theme. Also interesting to note is the similarities between the end robot battle in this film and end fight in Iron Man - interesting contrast between stop motion and CGI.

I'm convinced the Old Man and Johnson were the blueprint for Burns and Smithers 🧐

@danfors1333

Ай бұрын

You might be right, never thought of it until now. Smithers used to be black in the earliest episodes.

Robocop’s best crime fighting was helping Sting in WCW.

This cra was rewatching all of em and was hoping for this exact commentary as I watch and y’all posted it yesterday for me. Thanks

Oliver and Rob are the best. When I rewatch split second I have to listen to their commentary.

@ArtVandelayOfficial

Ай бұрын

Yeah man Rob is probably my favourite too and Tim

Your commentaries make doing the housework bearable! More please!

RoboCop 2 really grew on me over the past twenty years or so. I remember selling my D.V.D. -- "Good riddance to that silly film!" A few days ago, I was celebrating when my copy of Shout! Factory's new 4K U.H.D. arrived in the mail. RoboCop 2 has aged well. Concerning Hobb.... I don't think that he was included in order to entice youngsters. The character was written to show how depraved the City of Detroit had become.

@TheDarkHour684

4 күн бұрын

I think Hobb has gone down as an example the most depraved exploitation of a child in a mainstream movie. He spent years in therapy getting over this. :(

@jeffcarlin5866

4 күн бұрын

@@TheDarkHour684 Really? I've heard something similar about the actors in Kids (1995).

I was always Terrifed by robo caine as a kid, very weird knowing I was allowed to watch these movies but I appreciate it now.

@joeyservo

Ай бұрын

Me too, I think part of it was the stop-motion animation. There's something about the herky jerky movements that's creepy. Much like ED-209

@adamcammack3534

Ай бұрын

@@joeyservo That and the cgi Caine face freaked me out how it never spoke just yelled and screamed disturbed me.

According to Wikipedia Chris Quinten works at Stringfellows and is a dodgy bastard 😂

Hey, just in time for me to watch tonight with my brand new 4K disc I got yesterday. Looking forward to the commentary!

Night Slashers is the best Data East arcade

Rosenman's score for this reminds me of his score for Star Trek IV for sure - said on commentary just as I'm typing this. It's a good score but doesn't feel right.

Great commentary guys

the robots were in robocop 2 arcade game as well pity they didnt know that info

I've always held the ROBOCOP trilogy in parallel with the BEVERLY HILLS COP trilogy (albeit very soon to lose its trilogy status). A classic first film with a great central performance, with Detroit connections and starring Ronny Cox. The second films are more stylishly shot, and have some great moments, and stay faithful enough to the first film. Whereas the third films - both released within a week of each other (here in the UK - I went to see them both at the local Cannon cinema) in 1994 - and both messed up what made the first ones good, by, well...by being too early 90s, fudging the tone of the films, and put an end to both film series. And YET...as disappointing as both films are, I still find just enough to enjoy in both of them to stop me from completely writing them off....but only just.

"GO FFFF A REFRIGERATOR"

101:39 Frank Miller was a chronic alcoholic for a few decades- and it aged him very quickly

A lady in the theatre screamed during the scene when they cut open Cain's skull😅 Never forget that.

The Iron Man trilogy often mirrors the RoboCop trilogy. It becomes more obvious the more I re-watch them.

Cheers Oliver. About to get on a 4 hour flight 🙌🏻

I'm having, trouble.

The stop-motion work in the finale, although amazing, feels like a crutch for the movie to lean on when it runs out of story. Also, Robocop jumps ...

Always loved Robo 2, only a small step down from the original in my book. Terminator 1 & 2, Alien 1 and 2, Predator and Prey and Robo 1 and 2 are the ultimate sci-fi duo sets.

@BRIANOCONNOR2003

Ай бұрын

Don't forget predator 2

Checking in to support Ollie.

Just in time.

nerdy or not ollie is coming with me lol

I love that movie! ❤

Lots of comic book writers worked on plenty of TV shows both animated and live-action. But I think one of the first times that I can think of that a comic book writer worked on a movie was Roy Thomas for Conan the Destroyer

Lets goooo 👏

This is a film where I think back on certain moments and think "that's great." But whenever I watch it again, it just doesn't cohere. I think the structure is the problem, since the film seems more likea series of "and then this happens." It's easy for me to say so long after the fact, but surely something like the scene of Murphy telling his wife to never see him again should be the emotional climax of the film? The story should be, after regaining his humanity, it's a tragic tale of him rejecting it to protect his family. Perhaps Murphy should have purposefully accepted the new Prime Directives to try and appear more "human," but the ghost in the machine eventually comes to realise he's only hurting his wife and son, along with letting Cain run rampant, and then fully becomes RoboCop to protect them. All hindsight of course. It's not a movie without merit, just a bit of a mess.

Good guest

Always happy when Oliver and Rob get together for some sweet Murder She Wrote discussions.

Roy Thomas & Gerry Conway wrote 'Conan The Destroyer', right?

1:38 ...those OCP commercials and News blurbs where iconic ....😅😅😅🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺👍

Brilliant 🤩 I love these commentaries. I listen to them when I’m having a shit.

@lutherburgsvik6849

Ай бұрын

That's a looong shit.

YES Ollie! Insta-clicked

Watching it back now its pretty good to be honest it was released at a time when Hollywood was getting Squeamish and censoring everything kain was an incredible Boss ...stop motion was fantastic though the whole film felt a little more like a comedy ...and why they took Robocop back to product after finding himself at the end of the first I have no idea...

I love Robo2. It is a satire of sequels. Higher body count, over the top kids being wild. It had trailers in it for Robo2. Murphy being rebuilt by committee, much like a studio making a sequel for more money. RoboCain being bigger and badder and a complete opposite of Murphy. The complaint about Murphy reverting back to his Robo voice is BS. At this point in Murphy’s story, he has accepted he is Murphy and Robocop. His voice in Robo2 is the mix

I believe the actress you's are talking about was also in blue jean cop with peter weller and then this so maybe the affair started there and worked it's way into robo2

I lowkey love this movie. The first will always be the best but this was pretty fun

Definitely a fun movie.

Robocop 2 or Robocain used to give me the most horrific nightmares as a kid.

Hot Toys teased a Robocain figure back in 2012, but nothing ever came of it.

@Inverse_Midas

Ай бұрын

Could you remove his brain?!

Automatic (1995) was the Olivier Gruner movie John Glover appeared in...

@BRIANOCONNOR2003

Ай бұрын

I think john glover was also on gremlins 2 (which came out the same year as robocop 2)

Thanks, Dad for making me watch this movie at 4 years old :)

@TheDarkHour684

6 күн бұрын

Awful

Robocop 2 was a lot of fun. It wasn't the brilliant, seminal work like the first, but still had some moments

Fun Fact: Walon Green (the co-writer of *"RoboCop 2")* wrote the original screenplay for what eventually became Disney's *"DINOSAUR"* back in 1986 which was to be directed by both stop-motion animator Phil Tippett & original *"RoboCop"* director Paul Verhoeven. The initial story (which had no lines of dialogue whatsoever) centered on a Styracosaurus named Woot with his mammal friend Suri, who leads his herd on a migration route. The antagonist was to be a T. rex named Grozni. The story's finale was to have Woot & Grozni facing off in a fight to the death with Woot winning, but this turns out to be moot as the infamous KT asteroid crashed into Earth and wipes out all the Dinosaurs.

@revolverswitch

Ай бұрын

I am having so much trouble trying to envision Disney's Dinosaur as a Paul Verhoven movie

@JOSH-lw2jv

Ай бұрын

@@revolverswitch It was meant to be much darker & violent in tone, a style akin to a nature documentary. The intended budget for that version was to be $45 million, but then-Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg (1984-1994) gave the counteroffer of $25 million stating that there wasn't "enough of an audience to justify that cost", which caused Verhoeven & Tippett to depart from the project.

@revolverswitch

Ай бұрын

@@JOSH-lw2jv dang that is completely unrecognizable to what we got.

I always thought the face make up in 2 was quite poor in comparison to the first

I'm going to present another possibility to why the child in this movie is an absolute monster. Frank Miller hates children and made the character as unlikeable as humanly possible.

Damn dude, its bedtime :p not anymore!

I always thought that the evil kid was to tap into the juvenile crime paranoia

👍🏾👏

Please look at The Omen franchise.

👍👍👍🎥

I never understood why a criminal psychologist, or whatever her title is in the psychology field. Why, she would choose a psychopathic, Nuke addicted drug lords brain, for a new version of robocop?! The only conclusion I could come up with is that they thought they could control RoboCain with Nuke. But why go through the bother of all that, as good cops were apparently dying at a high rate, which was one of the reasons the cops were striking, amongst other things. Just use one of those brains. Ah, I think I’m looking into it too much! :) A half decent sequel to the classic original. Cheers.

25:18 Part of me wanted to laugh my ass off as a kid but it was just too disturbing.

I work for Dick Jones

In my youth I was in many ways disappointed when seeing this sequel. The music felt off, almost comedic cheerful in a bad way. I didn't like the scenes of re-programmed RoboCop acting like a dork or his new blue paint job. The child boss was a ridiculous idea. The version I saw was dubbed to german, that didn't improve the experience. What I did enjoy however was Robo-Cain. As a kid I found it very scary when it hunted down all the crooks in darkness. The end fight between Cain and RoboCop was very enjoyable.

and it won't even drain your battery

Directed by the guy who directed empire, let’s blame George Lucas for it 😡

@BRIANOCONNOR2003

Ай бұрын

Who?

The top of the skull missing and the brain smash at the end 🤢🤣 Guilty pleasure of mine this movie although I dislike the score. The choir but when they sing “Robocop” - just cringey 🤣

Don't be mean. I still love this movie.

I like the first 2. 3 is terrible

Was a massive disappointment at the time compared to the original…

Everything in the movie just feels cheap and tacky compared to the original, most criminally being the blue suit. I realize the film has some overlooked qualities, but the cheapness is too distracting.

@joneggelton

Ай бұрын

Agreed. I was 19 when I saw this at the cinema, and I remember even thinking how cheap and unsophisticated it looked at the time. If the original film had looked and felt like this one, it never would have gained the respect it did.

The more I watch this film the less I like it. I always thought the movie was inferior to the original, but the bits that I did like now don’t seem nearly as good.

There are days where I like Robocop 2 almost as much as much as Robocop. Honestly by far the worst partt of it is the music. The score is just fucking awful. Ill-fitting and annoying.

@veganguy74

Ай бұрын

I agree with you about the score, but the movie is not so bad. It’s better than most action movie sequels of this era.

@fiveways

Ай бұрын

@veganguy74 I think it's 98% as good as the first one. There is so much to like about it. I don't know how much Frank Miller was involved in the script revisions but his sense of humor at the time is all over the film. Which is great but I questions if a lot of critics and non-comic book fans were ready for that kinda jaded darkness. Verhoven had a degree of remove from it as an outsider looking in and critiquing America, so the themes of Robocop has an observers feel to it. Miller doesn't have that remove, he is as blind as a brick to the face. Regardless of his involvement with the rewrites it still feels like one of his stories from that period. Miller set the mood.

@fiveways

Ай бұрын

But I'll fully admit I'm a huge fan of this period of Frank Miller. I honestly think that Elektra Assassin is a forgotten masterpiece on the same level as stuff like Watchmen or his Miller's more celebrated works. About the only super hero or adjacent film that would get my ass in a theatre seat would be Elektra Assassin directed by Panos Cosmatos.

@orinanime

Ай бұрын

​@@veganguy74of the era? 1990. So the "era" would be what, in your opinion? 85-95 or a smaller window? Just wondering. But I would argue that other action movie sequels from the late 80s early 90s are better than this.

@ryanjacobson2508

Ай бұрын

​​@@orinanime1985-1995 was an overall period of excess... I always felt that was it's own unique era that had very little in common with either the early 80's or late 90's, which were a lot more low-key and chilled out. Maybe because Boomer influence peaked in the late 80's and early 90's, and Boomers were and still are a decadant and over the top generation.

The Japanese sets is because frank is upset with Japanese culture.

Robocop 2 is a commentary on the fact that the media after Robocop actively targeted children. Hence the movie and the bad guy are called litterally Robocop 2. The movie is a critique of violence sold to kids. The Hobbs character is the kid that represents all kids, Hobbs was a philosopher whose ideas centered around the surrender to authority. Cain is a character that killed his brother, in this case the brother is the original Robocop movie and ideas. I mean shit, they even say it when Murphy tries to shoot Hobbs and he says "Can't shoot a kid can you fucker" and minutes later he is killed by Cain who can target kids. The failed Robocop 2s are all the attempts to Remake the violent original that were all squashed in favour of cartoons and toys...