Friends we have added subtitles for this video in case the audio is difficult to hear - just hit "cc"

This was a real pleasure to watch and to listen to. The fact that it has been made available for free is incredible - thanks to both for their incredible generosity in doing so.

Dr Reynolds pls consider using hashtag on all videos. It would raise the profile of this great channel.

Oh, man the subtitles are great. Thanks for adding them, Professor!

Very interesting, thanks for posting!

Thanks a lot for subtitles, really !

Dr Hoyland is fantastic to listen to. It would be great if you could do another interview exploring more of early Islam, Dr Reynolds.

Fabulous content with 2 great scholars, with a lot to digest. Too bad for those commercials interrupting the debate every 5 minutes...

Maybe a better mic will reflect the quality of the discussion?

Being a believer “inside the fish bowl” I still find the various alternative methodologies of revisiting Islamic history fascinating especially in light of appreciating the external biases then and how those neighbours views changed over time and geography.

@user-sf8zw8wl3d

Жыл бұрын

@Farhan Imroze Muslim scholars are all biased

@unhingedconnoisseur164

6 ай бұрын

@@user-sf8zw8wl3deveryone is biased; it’s part of being human, so do not use it to try and exclude muslims for scholarship of our own religion.

There must be something we can do about the sound. The sound is terrible.

Unfortunately very low quality of Hoylands voice.

@mark1448

Жыл бұрын

Can someone buy Robert a mic lol?

Professor Hoyland needs a better microphone or better wifi. Everytime I watch him on different forums his audio quality is always poor

👍👍👍👍👍

The sound not clear and weak

Sadly he is very cautious with his words. understandably , inconclusive and ambiguous. Great scholar nonetheless.

Check out Robert Hoyland nuking Mecca on Derek Lambert's Mythvision Podcast.

@unhingedconnoisseur164

6 ай бұрын

“nuking mecca” is just straight up hateful language those words were actually used on that infamous “punish a muslim day “ leaflet

Does Pseudo Sebeos mention Arabia? I thought it referred to a place called Tachkastan.

@RedWolf75

2 жыл бұрын

You are right. It mentions Tachkastan which is in Western Iraq. It was the land of the Tayeye.

@preapple

Жыл бұрын

Tachkastan is in mesopotamia, between the two rivers. The main center of the Tayye tribe was at Hira and Kufa.

So hard to make out what he is saying. But most British speakers have that problem combined with bad connections.

Dr. Reynolds, I think you need to have Dr. Peter Webb on next to talk about Arab Identity and the Rise of Islam. I'm just sayin'..

@gabrielreynolds1364

2 жыл бұрын

Good idea!

@gabrielreynolds1364

2 жыл бұрын

@Siraj Haq Good suggestion - thank you!

It was all discussions and researches and fascinated discussions about pieces of papers found from 1500 years ago considering those as solid reliable sources of information. Does this apply to a completely preserved book since the same era of time? Or we are just biased??

Hoyland needs to invest in a better mic.

Here from MythVision 😅

It has been established by many scholars that the Quran was standardized around 650. Also, the Birmingham Quranic manuscripts have been carbon-dated to around the time of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. So, it is a fact that Islam came into existence prior to the 7th or 8th century and anyone arguing this is not true is simply denying undisputed evidence. The question is, did Islam, more specifically Quran, exist prior to prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and the answer is NO and here is the scholarly evidence: The style of the Quran is unique, and it is a stand-alone style of writing that the Arabs never wrote anything like it or saw anything like it at there time or before. Objective Scholars argue that since Muhammad is the product of that Arabic culture that he was born into, then if he wrote the Quran, his style of writing should be like the rest of the Arabic writing style at the time. However, these scholars argue that Muhammad couldn’t have written this book because it is completely alien to what is known to that society he was living in. Nothing in the Quran that resembles what those Arabs were familiar with. Especially, he was known among his people to be illiterate. But, for the sake of those who does not believe this, let’s assume he was literate. It is an a fact that he did not begin bringing this alien writing style (The QURAN) until after the age of 40. So, for 40 years, he didn’t write anything, and then suddenly, the Quran began to be revealed by him. Who this is possible? The Question remains if many scholars agree that Muhammad didn’t write the Quran. Then, who did? Of course, Muslims believe it was revelation from ALLAH and by the way, GOD in Aramaic is ALLAH with minor spelling differences but more or less the same pronunciation. In case, someone thinks that ALLAH is a different GOD than the GOD of Ibrahim. Even Jesus was calling to GOD by his name ALLAH.

@j.mtherandomguy8701

8 ай бұрын

Who? Your own islamic scholars?

Greetings Dr Reynolds. Time to consider interviewing a scholar from Inarah and some of them do speak good English.Needless to say that Inarah’s theory is that Mohammed is really one of the titles of Jesus in the sixth century Arab Christian in Khurrasan diaspora.

@RedWolf75

2 жыл бұрын

Thomas is of that school and he has a channel.

Greetings Dr Reynolds. Time to interview scholars from Inarah for some of them do speak good English. Needless to say that Inarah’s theory is that Mohammed is a sixth century Arab Christian title for Jesus.

@StuckNoLuck

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely! This channel could use some comedy between now and then

@ahmedhashim2652

2 жыл бұрын

@@StuckNoLuck in that case why are mocking others and hiding behind a borrowed name.

@StuckNoLuck

2 жыл бұрын

@@ahmedhashim2652 I believe the standards of this channel is above the ideologically-driven bizarre readings of evidance supplemented with fanciful imagination that leads to strange proposals which the Inarah people seem to be specialized at. As for my real name, what is your use for it? Do you want to come for a tea or something?

@stevenv6463

2 жыл бұрын

@@StuckNoLuck You seem cool. Can I come for tea?

@byblispersephone2.094

2 жыл бұрын

Well, Mohammed does mean ‘praised one’ so I can see how that assertion may have been formulated.

From my own understanding there was no Islam as a religion in the 7th Century and early to mid 8th Centuries, the Inarah group of scholars and the French speaking scholars have made this pretty clear, however, there was an anti-trinitarian Christian movement. The Dome of the Rock is in fact an *anti-trinitarian Christian building with the 'Mohammad's' (Praised One) written on the inner ambulatories (the only original part of the building left) being Jesus, as are the first three Mohammad's in the Quran, the fourth Mohammad being an Abbasid interpolation. Also there is the problem of Mecca being habitable due to a lack of water (forget the myth of the Zamzam well), at best many scholars have it as a hamlet, and of course Medina was insignificant. From what the above scholars are saying, we can only really think of Islam as a religion from the late 8th century to the 9th Century. *Both Abdul al Malik who had the Dome of the Rock built (completed in 694) and his brother were anti-trinitarian Christians A Thomas Alexander Vid on Mohammad meaning Jesus in the Dome of the Rock kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKynmtOJfNnPmrQ.html

@preapple

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing the video by Thomas Alexander - a gem.

Why all this hate against Tunisia. When you mention other countries ‘and you make sure to mention them’ such as Jordan, Armenia, and Egypt, we can see your smile (happy face) but if anything related to Tunisia or Tunisians such ‘Carthage’ or ‘Doctrina Jacobi’ you discredit us and not even mention us or give us credit. Also, stop saying ‘North Africa’ because that includes anywhere between Eastern Egypt and The Southern tip of Morocco (is that what you mean). Just specify the countries of origin and their population. If it is Tunisia, then it is flipping Tunisia and flipping Tunisians. Unfortunately, very Anti-Tunisian but why!!! Ps- Africa or Ifriquia is the historical name of Tunisia only (with the same population from antiquity till now) just in case you do some research. Also, Tunisia host/home of great cities and Capitals of Empires such Carthage, Kairouan, Mahdia, Tunis, Subeitla etc. Full of culture, religious contributions, and great impact. Do not dismiss us, ignore us, or discredit us. We are not insignificant. We are creators and contributors. Our impact in the world history is unmatched. I like your work and I think you are doing a great job, but I hate the fact that you discredit us. Very annoying!!!

I must also add that there is no mention of Islam, Mecca, or Muslims that existed before 690: not in any book, coin, or map even though Mohammed was long dead and the Arabs had massive wealth and a large empire. The word Mohammed (which means praised one in Arabic) was first officially used after 690 by Abdul Malik on coins and the Dome of the Rock but he was talking about Jesus. Later during the time of the Abbasids they manufactured the “prophet” Mohammed and the new religion of Islam.

@paulthomas281

Жыл бұрын

@Zeus Nair Muhammad was manufactured. But there was still a preacher associated with the Qur'an/Qur'ans.

@strange1094

Жыл бұрын

So what does this say about the validity of Islam? To be totally honest, i am completely new to this field of study. All i know is that the traditional account of the history of Islam is shaky. Ive been exposed to some of this stuff and one thing i have learned is what you mentioned. Im sure youre more well versed in this than me so my original question stands: what does this new historical critical field of Islam say of its validity?

@dom3073

Жыл бұрын

@@strange1094 all pure nonsensical crackpot theories. Muhammad, Islam and Quran have strong evidenced documentary historical basis evev from non Muslim sources at that time such as from Romans, Persians, Indians, Chinese.

@strange1094

Жыл бұрын

@@dom3073 idk how true that is but i must ask are you Muslim?

@zeusnair265

Жыл бұрын

@@strange1094 Islam is a fabrication invented by the Abbasids to create a new identity for the Arabs. They simply borrowed much of the Christian and Jewish texts and wrote over it slapping together the Quran. They then created these fabled stories of Mohammed with Hadiths only written down hundreds of years after his death and claimed it was passed down orally. Nothing was written by Arabs about Mohammed during his lifetime although they had this vast empire and could have easily written things down about Mohammed. He was not important until the Abbasids created this myth to compete with Jesus