Please don't do Better Help ads. They got caught selling their clients' private information to 3rd-party advertisers.

@sigfreed11

28 күн бұрын

That would explain (at least partially) how they are half the cost to get therapy ($80 vs $150 per session)

@rene8999

28 күн бұрын

yea just do self-therapy xD

@sigfreed11

28 күн бұрын

@@rene8999 yeah that’s not always an option - I understand it was a joke, but not a good one. Therapy is a serious thing and it should be respected. Hence why I agree with not supporting Better Help

@XPCTECH

28 күн бұрын

Problem is, he's probably under contract.

@W.C.

28 күн бұрын

if somethings too good to be true...

For sure would love to see an in-depth break down of the Aerosensor and how user friendly it is or isn't. Would also love to see how it presents the data and what kind of variables you are having to control for in your runs.

@8584zender

28 күн бұрын

+1 please discuss how it deals with elevation changes and wind vector perpendicular to your direction of motion which will effect watts with no change in CdA

$6,000,000 wind tunnel just left the chat

@grn-xx

28 күн бұрын

how should he be able to afford that when he has to ride a china bike

@neemmachine

28 күн бұрын

These systems are not as accurate as a wind tunnel, rolling resistance and traffic play a huge role on the output of these devices. This may help to understand basic aero savings and good positioning on the road but for accurate information the wind tunnel is still gold standard

@cracked229

28 күн бұрын

@@grn-xx pours belong in jail, not wind tunnels.

@Gixer750pilot

28 күн бұрын

@@neemmachine when that elevator breaks down , please don’t be in there with me 😂

@JimUe1

28 күн бұрын

@@cracked229 he has a sirvelo... maybe he's a dentist on the side

Finally a real-world test of this. I’d love to see a video on the benefits (or no benefits) of aero handlebars.

@paddymurphy-oconnor8255

27 күн бұрын

12 watts.

@fewik8567

21 күн бұрын

They look much nicer

the “Aero Tuck” saved that much over from being in the drops, figured they would have been the same, but I also notice his elbows were strait in the drops, vice bent…. putting his hands in the curve position (covering brakes) might have got him lower, saved even more watts..

I bet this type of tool will be found on bike computers in just a few years

@mr.techie8565

27 күн бұрын

That would be awesome

@OlegGultayev

5 күн бұрын

So what will be my to do list before every ride in 2030s: 1)charge smartphone 2)charge bike computer 3)charge heart sensor 4)charge wind sensor 5)charge body position sensor 6)charge shifting gear sensors 6)charge tire pressure sensor 7)charge bike battery 8)charge your self by coffein ... 99)you burned too much calories by doing all of theese procedures, so you're good boy today and can stay home and continie to watch KZread about new bike sensors!

I would love to see an ftp test in each position! I know it would be very annoying but super interesting to see, what kind of power you can deliver in what position vs how much power you save with your position! Great video :D

@jasonjohnson9072

27 күн бұрын

FTP test is too draining and too long to get consistent data. If you did 4 proper FTP tests is a week it wouldn’t matter watt (see watt I did there🤪) you did the last one for the week is gonna be terrible because you’re toast. That’s assuming you did them properly. If you did 1 per week for 4 weeks how do you account for possible changes in fitness? Even if you did do them on different days what about sleep, diet ect ect or any of the other million things that impact. It just wouldn’t be good data and you’d end up guessing the guess you already had before you tried to test.

@ewtcizs1101

27 күн бұрын

@@jasonjohnson9072 good point! Maybe a test which is way shorter, less draining (HR controlled?) .. But I don't know if you get any good/usable data from a short tests like that.

@alessiob8700

26 күн бұрын

If you ride at actual FTP and stay shy of your TTE, it's not going to be that draining. It can actually be a good threshold workout. The standard 20min FTP test is draining because you are riding above the threshold, possibly in VO2Max territory. You could also choose 3 positions to test and ride a third of your TTE in each position. If you have a 45 min TTE that'd be 15 minutes each, which is a good amount of time for gathering data. Most riders would struggle to even sustain the aero hood position for 15 minutes anyway.

If you practice that super aero position with intent you can improve your ability ie more power in the position and increase the duration dramatically. Over the last 3 months I’ve been able to take my duration on rides from 4x 5 min for 20 min total to 5x 15 min blocks. My average speed on these rides has increased significantly just from this. Especially as you said when riding in a headwind. This has been waaaaay more productive than the watts I have gained in the same time. I gotta say for anyone who thinks it’s too hard just stick to it. It’s highly trainable and once you work on it you could jump a category without improving your watts.

@Sandcat87

27 күн бұрын

Yeah I was wondering what he's saying about it not being sustainable, I've recently been holding it for over half an hour at a time practicing for road bike TTs and in a 2 hour chase I got involved in last week I held it for probably 90% of that time (taking quick breaks on the drops to flush the arm muscles). I practice it on my zone 2 rides and the speed increase has been nuts like you say compared to watts. A few months ago I couldn't hold it for more than a couple of minutes. In that time I've also been able to adapt to putting out the same watts in that position vs on the drops or upright on the hoods. (The technical reason for this is because the posterior chain which is the chain of muscle groups running up the back of your body - i.e., calfs, hamstrings, glutes, back muscles - when they stretch as you bend over, they get narrower and the sheathing of the muscles themsleves creates added friction so they don't pull as well through themselves and you lose power, but with extra increased flexibility you gain over time and stretching the muscles out they start to contract with less friction again.) Like everything in life... just keep working on it. Gonna be harder if you're heavier, but again - just keep working on it.

@bradrogers2427

24 күн бұрын

I'd love to be able to hold the "aero hoods" position for longer - any tips or tricks on how you were able to train yourself to do this?

@jasonjohnson9072

23 күн бұрын

@@bradrogers2427 Mostly just conscious practice on my z2 rides. Over the 6 months I’ve also lost 8 kilos wich no doubt helped with speed and reduced the effort required to stay in the position. Don’t push yourself, consistent practice is key. I aim for 2 sessions per week of concioysly riding in the position for my allotted time. Slowly progress the time. Initially I increased reps from 4x 5 min to 5 then 6 by 5 then I went 3x 10 min and increased reps back to 5 now I’m at 15 min sets. By the end of your session you should be tired but stop before you are exhausted. I chose z2 rides so it didn’t impact my watts. It takes mental focus drains your energy initially quite quickly. Just accept wherever you are and know it will improve rapidly if you don’t overdo it. If you push too long in the position before you are ready you will get sore or strain a muscle. This will stop you from wanting to or being able to practice so be conservative. My next goal is to do my high intensity efforts in the position now I’ve built a strong base. I expect my sessions to suffer a little initially but the goal is to be as fast as possible not put out the most watts.

@Sandcat87

9 күн бұрын

@@bradrogers2427 Practice holding it for longer and longer in intervals, just like power. One day you start out maybe you can hold it for 90 seconds, so hold it for 90 seconds on the way out for your training ride then hold it for 90 seconds on the way back again. Next time do it 3 times on a ride. Then go to 2 minutes, then 3, 5, 8, 20, etc. No tricks or anything, you just improve over time as you practice getting more flexible and stronger (core and triceps). If you're heavier it will take longer but you can still do it.

@Sandcat87

9 күн бұрын

@@bradrogers2427 By the way did we meet on the Camino in Spain around this time last year...?

Thanks!

Really cool to see the results thanks

Awesome more of this please 🙏🏻

Love these videos. Need to do a leg shaving watt savings video.

Might have to cop one myself 😅 Honestly though would love to see some live testing and breakdown. See how much Jeff remembers from his stats course.

Amazing data, details and conclusion. Thank you for one of the best videos about aerodynamics and its power savings. Effects of deep(er) wheels, fully integrated vs regular (old school) cockpits and helmets would be awesome to learn more about. Recently, I have learned that a shorter crank can save Watts too. I enjoy cycling and its technical background so much.

@wagonmoundno.2396

27 күн бұрын

Love the technical stuff - sometimes I wish there were better ways to home brew some of the advancements rather than spending loads though. Though I accept that as positional changes make the most difference, the flexibility and strength to hold them is home brewing aero to an extent.

Thanks! Jeff I love your real world test collection of videos. Only time I would sit through a YT vid more than 2 min.

Love this I did two windtunnel test and although exciting my new positions didn’t work in real life. This seems to solve it ! Definitely do a review on this love it 😍

A lot of good information cold from this piece of technology. Definitely would love a video about it

Excellent tool for experimenting

Thanks for putting this into real data. It confirms my intuition and feelings when riding 🙃

Sweet, love this video

please Jeff, don't do Better Help ads. I would rather watch a creaky bottom bracket than a Better Help sponsorship

@lookpro.rideslow

28 күн бұрын

No context? Why do you care so much about

@voidsofold

28 күн бұрын

They're a very scummy company ​@@lookpro.rideslow

@rabk3

28 күн бұрын

Selling user information. I learned something today. Below is an FTC article on it. (If you don't want to trust the link, quick google search will pull it up) www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/03/ftc-says-online-counseling-service-betterhelp-pushed-people-handing-over-health-information-broke

@nugginusslover476

28 күн бұрын

@@lookpro.rideslow because it's a shitty company earning on the backs of people who need help. They have had scandal after scandal, they are not one bit trustworthy.

@mitchellsteindler

28 күн бұрын

Then skip the ad. Cry cry cry

I’m almost always in the super aero position. Even on recovery rides. Even on my Gravel bike. So that it becomes so natural that I can keep it much longer

Super interesting !!!! Please dive deep into this... I love it ... 🥰

Happy to see a Coospo cadence/speed sensor on your bike... I've been really happy with their stuff for the price.

@iyadkamhiyeh527

28 күн бұрын

I think it's the best speed/cadence sensor on the market right now!

@witepa

28 күн бұрын

^astroturf?

@DullBoyJack

28 күн бұрын

@@witepa Lol no. I bought one off Amazon since it was going on my gravel bike and I didn't want to spend garmin money on a backup unit... but I actually liked it more. Seeing it on his bike vindicated my purchase in a way

Another alternative is the Chung method but you'll need a repeatable ride (preferably a loop), a power meter, and to be able to avoid braking.

damn jeff shooting S-log3

PLEASE do some actual data on what happens with watts when you ride in the pack. No one (I have seen) shows what's happening 2, 3, 10th in a bunch. Or in a pace line. Can you also do some wheel depth testing - I'm sure you will. Also mad expensive wheels vs cheap wheels (same depth)

I would have loved a full hour video on exactly this with all the details and data

Would love to see a video with some data from riding in a bunch, chain gang and some race simulation - just to get a handle on more realistic data rather than trying extrapolate data from solo riding.

As a mega nerd myself, id love to see more about the aero sensor and how it is or isnt useful in a variety of situations

good stuff here, interesting to see the different riding positions expressed in CdA and watts. I'd like to see the difference in choice of clothing and wheelsets as well

UK... we have road bike time trials and some of us can stay in the super aero position for long periods, narrow bars included. Some are raising the bars to help which obviously lifts your head but the position is still narrow but sustainable. There's a sweet spot for everyone.

Would be interested in a video about your strength / stretching routine that you use to be able to hold these positions

Puppy paws position is sustainable for hours if the road conditions allow so that would have been of more interest if you had tested that.

@blubaughmr

21 күн бұрын

Isn't puppy paws against the rules in racing now?

@gregmorrison7320

21 күн бұрын

@@blubaughmr The UCI has no jurisdiction here.

I need to go back and check out your wheel videos. I'm curious about the benefit between 23mm and 40-45mm deep section ones (with the same tires.) Bike position improvement/awareness is free speed though ✌️ It would be cool to see some sprint position comparisons in a future video.

Cool Video. How's your Winspace bike treating you so far? Maybe it's time to do a long term review

Man . I'd like to try this aero sensor out too :3

Might be a little neesh but sholder position and brake lever tilt would be interesting to study. I meen we already know the difference between the different basic positions that were presented in the video so perhaps this is an opportunity to delve a bit deeper

I would be very interested to see this test repeated with different quality jerseys

Would love to see the detailed breakdown video. Would be awesome if this sensor can provide reliable, accurate real world aero testing of equipment

Hi Jeff. Here are a few ideas I have for the aero sensor - [ ] 28vs 30 vs 32 on Deep wheels - [ ] Same depth aero wheels vs Staggered ( like Enve) - [ ] 28 and 30 mm tires on wide profile rims like reserve 52/63 vs standard aero wheels - [ ] Gravel tires (40/45/50/2.2) on deep section wheels - [ ] Best camera placement - [ ] Saddle bag vs frame triangle bag - [ ] Tall bottles vs short bottles

@zhoujustin1954

22 күн бұрын

last three would be considered the most interesting ones😂 matches what roadies would worry

This is good to know. I should work on my aero position more but I ride slow enough that it doesn't matter unless their is a headwind. This does mean I will stay tucked for any decent descents, and I know the level of wind I face when I am tucked vs upright is crazy.

Can you test your aero tucked position from the hoods vs aero tuck on the drops? Or is it even possible for you to comfortably do an aero tuck on the drops? I've always thought being on the drops would be the most aero.

Would love to learn if the device support full-on sprints and see if you can test the difference between an all-out sprint where you're only focusing on producing as much power as possible versus a more compact sprint focused on technique and aerodynamics!

Can you try an aero drops position like used in track cycling?

possible to do a comparison how much draft u get from different riders? Small vs big rider draft. How much their aerodynamict affects yours. How much do I save by drafting of a less aero rider?

@wertacus

28 күн бұрын

That would be so cool to see. I got behind an ebiker with panier bags on a ride recently and practically had to ride the brakes instead of pedaling

Great tool for the weekend warrior who needs that extra 1% performance improvement after already training 5 hours per week 😂

Now do one with crazy position with chest on bars and arms tucked in. And do one that tests various helmets.

Testing! Yeah!

Wow I never thought of that before

CDA graphic & other graphics were looking spiffy. Editing going up a level - nice work.

We need you to test a red versus a non-red bicycle. Thank you in advance.

Sick gadget! Really elevates the content you can put out. See you on the Nero Show soon?! @ChrisMillerCycling Cant wait to see some helmet and tyre testing.

Nice video... man I would love to work on the UX and UI of one of these CDA devices to help users understand the DATA better.

Give us the fully nerd stuff! Love it!

Goated video. The two control runs. The body position data. The drag data. Real conclusions. Actual advice. Dumbass coaches will say "why arent you aero durimg a crit??". I tell them because it doesnt matter, im in the group. This is why coaches should do before they coach.

Would love to see the data from a race in and out of a draft. I think this Would also be cool to help determine the best position for the rider in a draft in a crosswind. Very tool bit of tech

Can the sensor measure difference in cda (and watts then of course) between a 26mm, 30mm and 34mm tire??

more more more please (aero testing)

Now I wonder... When I ride I'm mostly in position like your drops + aero. I use low grip, but my hands are strongly bent, not like yours - quite straight. I ride with 30-31km/h for 2.5-3.5h and I don't feel any back/arm/hands pain. I can ride with this position for longer time periods only with a high cadence (around 100RPM). When I'm going downhill I usually try to reach 90degree with my hands (I lean in even tighter) to avoid wind. I agree aero position is uncomfortable :D

Love it 👌

Can you make a video about the aero drag of different camera setup?

Test for sprinting out of the saddle. How many watts are you giving up in aero to add the power to the cranks?

Great video, great analytical information, and well presented. I would like to point out one thing however- saddle to handle bar drop. Your bike is set up with more drop than most casual or semi-serious riders have. Most of these riders have the saddle only slightly higher that the handlebars, like I do. I suppose each position that you documented would still have the advantages you observed, but I wonder if the proportions of the differences would be be the same with less drop. But thank you for taking the time to make this video, I appreciated itvery much.

@therider4909

27 күн бұрын

I am 5’4 with zero bar drop and I watch videos like this and wonder about how drops vs aero hoods position would compare for a setup like mine. If you have a powermeter you could run your own test on an out-and-back course or a loop to get a time or watt difference as long as you control the variables.

@5speed735i

26 күн бұрын

@@therider4909 yeah, so you get my point! When Jeff rides on the hoods, it's like you or I riding in the drops. When he's in the drops, It's lower than you or I can really get our hands down to.

goatee on point sir!

I'm interested in your experience with the sensor for sure

This was interesting. I'd be interested in how your 'unsustainable' aero position compares to a more sustainable aerobar (think tri or long distance riders) configuration And yes, I'll cast a vote for going deeper on how the instrumentation works.

How does the info from the Aero sensor compare with what you would get in the wind tunnel? Do they correlate well?

Very, very cool cycling glasses (grey frames). Does anyone know the brand please?

You should do this with kit: tshirt, jersey, skinsuit

There's probably a lot of us who have nowhere near your FTP. When you say aero position probably doesn't matter on a 6% hill, I'm thinking, "It also probably doesn't matter in the last 10 miles of a long day." My position won't make the difference between a podium finish and an also-ran, but it _could_ make the difference in not getting dropped from a 100-mile group ride.

How does it account for incline I wonder? Does it have a gyro or something built in? GPS incline data is iffy at best

I wonder how many watts overshoes save. test?

I'm managing an estimated 0.21 CdA on my recumbent but would love to modify it for even better aero

Just goes to show the like of WINSPACE AND ELVES are faster than SPECIALIZED SL8 high end builds.....i like the way you promote the Winspace with Hyper wheels. I have an Elves Falath Pro with e-tap D67s and co-efficient bars 7.4 kilos and it flies!

Would love to see the difference in watts between a 5’6” cyclist in the drops vs 6’ cyclist in the drops at the same speed (20-25mph)

how accurate is mywindsock compared to the aero sensor?

Would be interesting to re-test with the sensor pushed >1ft forward. Suspect drops are faster than the data shows.

For sure would love to see an in-depth break down of the Aerosensor

This glasses sponsor must be really paying some top-dollar

Velocomp Aeropod has been providing these numbers for years.

If you have a tailwind is it actually better to right more upright to offer a higher surface area for the wind to be pushed?

@NorCalCycling

7 күн бұрын

the wind would need to be going faster than you can ride, and if you eliminate that opposing force, crazy speeds can be achieved so it would need to be like 100mph wind in order for rolling resistance to catch up. Interesting question, I'm sure someone can do the math on that.

But we don't get into those positions when we do max out sprinting 50m in front of the line, do we?

I'm definitely an outlier then! I'm far right in position but middle of the range fitness.

I would love to see aero bike vs climbing bike in the draft. All these TT tests but no draft tests.

What do you do if you're over the weight limit of your bike?

@stephensharp975

24 күн бұрын

get another bike or loose weight.

I take this as you didn't learn anything new, you just confirmed what you already knew. Maybe playing with it for a bit, you might learn something helpful, but maybe not. Curious what your thoughts on this device's utility may actually be. Some questions: How does it account for wind direction/speed and road surface conditions?

Can you test aero jerseys in the same way?

I ride in that pro position every day, but I'm just late for work on my steel touring bike.

How does it account for drivetrain and rolling resistance losses?

@joefernandez4170

23 күн бұрын

compared to the aerodynamics those are negligible

SRAM had 13 speed Red AXS EXPLR all over unbound this weekend. 1x on all the Pro SRAM riders.

It's a *free* sent unit, it's an advertisement. And please distance yourself from Better help ads they are running a predatory unethical business, you are better than that.

So why don't cyclists use aero bars more? I added some as I was commuting in a windy region - and it really helped. Plus, I could maintain the aerodynamic position for extended periods.

I climb in the Aero position unless it is really steep because aero always matters.

@Sandcat87

27 күн бұрын

ascended master

Yo Jeff!! Aero test me 🙏🙏🙏

Jeff, do a deep dive in the nerd numbers please. Test others frames, wheels and others aero stuffs.

wonder how many watts I'm losing by riding 23mm deep wheels and cables coming out from my shifters on my entry level bike. 20-40 watts?

@pedalandchill

28 күн бұрын

Not much, maybe just a couple of watts because drag is mostly from you, bike is less than 20% of total so say at 250w on flat road, maybe 40w lost from wind from the bike (rolling resistance & drivetrain friction also slow you down). Much less at lower power/speed or in an incline. If you look into your bike head on from the front, the frontal area consists of a lot more than your cables and front wheel. You'd save more watts by getting fast tyres instead.

@barryl1995

28 күн бұрын

@@pedalandchilli see. i have gp5000s with butyl in the back and latex in the front, very tight jersey, semi-aero helmet, and i can hold the aero position for 5+ minutes. at this point i feel like i’d benefit from getting better wheels and a more aero frame, or just getting stronger.

A confidence interval means where the average of 95 % of your runs would lie. So if you repeat your test 1000 times 950 of the average values should be within your confidence interval

I thought it was funny that when you show your side by side riding pics that your helmet height is the same as CdA chart.

@Sandcat87

27 күн бұрын

That's a great example of WHY the lower you get the more aero you are, visually represented. The two are directly related. It's also why you can reproduce 'wind tunnel' effects for free at home by setting up a mirror in front of your bike and trying to make yourself as small as possible - visually - in a position you can hold. It will be pretty much the most aero position you can then ride in.

With going too much into the details, repeating the same position for two different trails tells you something about reproducibility. If the results of the repeated trials are similar then the result is reproducible. You could use multiple trails to calculate a confidence interval (which in this case would be the range within which you expect the CdA for a given position to fall at a certain level of confidence). Another useful statistical approach would be to use a test such as a t-test to determine whether the CdA for two different positions (say, climbing and Cat 5) are significantly different.