For me, pedalling circles has never been about forcefully pulling on the upstroke, but more about being as smooth as possible without bouncing all over the saddle.

@billskolnik4908

Ай бұрын

Yep!

@markn4526

Ай бұрын

Bouncing can sometimes mean that your saddle is too low.

@randydevoe4803

Ай бұрын

Exactly… lighten the pedal

@ofeykalakar1

Ай бұрын

@@markn4526in one gear too low

@markn4526

Ай бұрын

@@ofeykalakar1 About 30 years ago I rode quite a few times with a guy who was primarily a track cyclist. I always rode with a pretty high cadence (92-95 RPM) back then, but this guy schooled me on riding with a really high cadence (115-120 RPM) in a low gear for extended periods of time. It all depends on your technique, your training and if you are even physically capable of doing it. Not all riders can ride smoothly at high cadences.

Yeah, 40 years of lighting up on back stroke has never hurt me.. that’s not pulling up… it kinda remove your legs weight off the pedal… in fact to train this you do actual pulling up on back stroke.. as part of you spinning warm up. Now on the ride, and over many months, the lightening up of pedal becomes natural.. Again, I am not pulling up on back stroke.

@snnt837

2 күн бұрын

Some said "unweightd the pedal"

Pedaling in circles IS VERY efficient. If you can't perform it doesn't mean others can't or won't. Matter of preference, muscles flexibility/endurance, body position on the bike (very important) and how much one rides. Not sustainable for beginners, for sure.

Found a more circular and smooth pressure is best for mountain biking, especially on a loose surface. Slam those pedals, and the tire will lose traction and spin. On the road you have more options.

Most bad pedaling habits arise from biting off way more gear than you can chew. Most riders cannot push a 52t or bigger chainring for long distances unless they're cross chained and causing significant wear to their driveline components.

@zensenpai6669

Ай бұрын

Meanwhile I'm over here pushing a 52t chainring on my single speed. It has an 18t rear cog which is equivalent to riding in the middle of the cassette. The reason why people have problems pushing a 52t chainring is because of torque production. It takes a decent amount of torque to send a 52t chainring across. I recommend to people to ride single speed or fixed gear up some climbs. Ride in a zig-zag pattern to flatten the gradient a bit and use the entire posterior chain when pedaling. Only having 1 gear teaches us how to make the most out of it.

Wait! We are NOT using all four pedal strokes simultaneously, that is very inefficient. But I am using one or two, and alternating between them all, though never using a top stroke at lower cadence below 95. Pushing across the top at 100RPM is a very efficient spin stroke, very easy and relaxed. Pulling through the bottom is also a good alternative when the power stroke (pushing down) is very overused and tired. Using the power stroke and pulling up the back is also a great stroke for releasing tired power stroke muscles, or when the grade is so steep you can't keep a smooth stroke or higher cadence. These strokes will engage other muscles like the hamstrings to their max effort. There is a major benefit to using the hamstrings intensely.....MUSCLE BALANCE. Cyclists tend to have inbalance between quads and hamstrings and the cause of knee problems. Runners have the opposite, stronger hamstrings and weak quads. Spent most life in the weight room in off season racing balancing these muscles. But no more with the use of all four strokes in alternatives to the power stroke. I have had balanced muscles and little knee problems since employing all four strokes. My knees have always been weak because of an injury. To make this all work you will need to have a cadence of 80 to 110 without any body movement, super smooth strokes. Ankling also ingages the calf muscles, and especially out of saddle climbing and acellerating. My calfs are almost the size of my quads. Been working on pedal technique and a smooth range of cadece for over 56 years now, raced professionally and today at 66yo am a full time cyclists, no cars or motors.

@DISCOhooch

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@Daniel-kb3mf

Ай бұрын

Awesome sir

@choanlpoto

29 күн бұрын

All this is wrong. Don’t listen.

@tonyp4536

21 күн бұрын

Totally agree

@jurekgadzinowski2895

21 күн бұрын

@@choanlpoto How is it all wrong? And who is wrong, the author of the comment or the guy who made a video?

You mentioned some research (at 2:26)... but there is no source mentioned in description, even there is no name of this research or anything. Just strange number as a name of document opened in Safari brouwser at path /user/ ... weird. Could you please let us know some link to this research? Thanks a lot.

@auduns-n2763

Ай бұрын

A quick google scholar search shows it is Korff et al, 2007 Medicine and Science...

I find a benefit to using a different muscle group to produce power while the dominant muscles flush the lactic acid. I view pedaling in circles more of an exercise in not hindering the downstroke with the weight of your opposite leg than creating an equalized power band.

@TheCerebralCyclist

Ай бұрын

Increases in muscle lactate* correlate with fatigue. It is not the cause of fatigue. So 'flushing' it, which should happen fine on it's own, wouldn't really be a reason for the dominant muscle to perform better. The issue with pedaling in circles to 'not hinder the downstroke' is lifting the pedal still has a metabolic cost and an oxygen demand. The studies presented herein would imply it is better to utilize the finite amount of energy/VO2/cardiac output available in the large muscle groups of the legs as they push downward on the pedal.

@ryoukokonpaku1575

19 күн бұрын

When you're climbing pulling actually does give your main muscles some recovery. It's something that a pro taught me when doing really hard climbs. Especially when you're out of the saddle on very steep gradients ans you're in the red.

@TheCerebralCyclist

19 күн бұрын

​@@ryoukokonpaku1575 Sorry mate, when it comes to determining what is true in cycling performance, arguments from authority mean almost nothing to me🤷‍♂

@ryoukokonpaku1575

19 күн бұрын

@@TheCerebralCyclist and I don't mind that, just saying that it's not exactly a 100% black and white. Track cyclists also pull on their standing starts and sprints for example, stomping like a piston isn't likely the whole picture, even my efforts on steep climbs where you can't spin your way up actually work better with occasional pulls when standing. Even in studies this is still debated on certain scenarios since you're not always doing steady states in races. Efficiency isn't really a large factor when you just want to put down raw watts quickly when attacking or powering through steep gradients.

Cadence IS important. Power output in a reduced, just biomech approach would be maximized at a quite low rate around 40. But riding a bike is more as you want to keep up power output over time, explaining the superiority of higher cadence for other reasons (metabolism and muscle fatique basically). It seems more than doubtful that by improving on originally unused segments you HAVE to reduce your downstroke. This might occur when trying a NEW technique which can unsurprisingly not be efficient without adoption of the muscles and their interaction. MIGHT lead to misleading results of studies. Also the torque graph only shows ONE leg which is second best as for the acceleration the bike likes power over time. We should be looking at the whole picture. At least in theory circling shoud add power over time. By generating more power compared to the possible loss of an inactive leg the output over time should increase. So time has to be a factor, an is dependent on the cadence. At low cadence you have to cope with long lasting phases of suboptimal power transmission (leg 2 pedal) . Beside yhe high cadency the use of shorter cranks in pro cycling might reduce the critical upoer segment . Something more is critical transmission to loose surface. High power climaxes will be extreme ineffective by loosing the rear wheel. Gaining a "small" advantage of 15-20 % according to studies mentioned by Dylan Johnson is quite a bit Go for it, if You like to maximize your power over time to the limit. If not, the whole research and discussion is for the bin anyway...

I’m an older rider (62), who has always (?) been told, “Pedal Circles.”. I am open to new ideas. But, pulling on the upstroke seems critical to seated climbing. Upstroke power is very helpful to my climbing. What’s your POV regarding climbing? (BTW, 40+ years of cycling with clipless pedals and I’ve never had back, hip or other, non-crash, injuries.)

@clarkebynum4623

Ай бұрын

The research just doesn’t show any actual benefit in terms of performance and shows that you are faster without an upstroke. If it’s comfortable for you and you’re going on fine then keep on going

@bingbing3464

Ай бұрын

You can definitely single leg push 100kg but unlikely to hamstring curl 50kg. Such is the muscle density of our legs. A forced upstroke is probably useful to marginally increase cadence by pulling the pedal up in the 6-8 oclock range

@jasongibson3574

Ай бұрын

Exactly. I've always increased wattage in climbs by pedaling circles, with less lactic acid in the quads. Additionally I've won a bunch of TT's by trying to pedal circles and pulling back. Not to mention pedaling circles or at least focusing on that technique and breathing is a way to zone out what your doing to your body. If you focus on something other than the pain your going through, performance increases via relaxation. Don't focus on the pain, focus on the pedaling.

@clarkebynum4623

Ай бұрын

@@jasongibson3574 that’s great and really impressive. This is a situation where you would have won by more had you actually not pedaled in circles.

@jasongibson3574

Ай бұрын

@@clarkebynum4623 it's my natural pedaling technique so it's likely id test poorly trying something else. I've done hundreds of power tests, I definitely know my max performance

I feel this video is misleading: good pedaling technique is not about pulling up, but about not pushing too far down so you basically deliver force against a fixed point (where the pedal is lowest). I feel beginning cyclist push too far down which is why their pedaling doesn’t look smooth.

@ryoukokonpaku1575

19 күн бұрын

Pedaling too much down is also why some bounce off their saddle which can lead to saddle sores and quicker fatigue. At least training that smooth stroke using the circle as a guide actually can make you more efficient than stomping since there's no wasted watts on the downstroke.

Yep. Another reason for using flat pedals instead clipless one. Clipless setup sounds fancy with cool shoes, efficiency, and certain pulling techniques. Yet flat pedal setup is more versatile with ease of instant dismounting and changing foot position on the fly. Also might ends up with better efficiency as this video suggest.

I always like to hear about old ideas getting debunked, but a lot depends on your bike's gearing and the terrain. As a serial single speeder, I often hit steep climbs that force me to use every muscle fiber in my body to make it to the top. I have to push down hard with one leg while simultaneously pulling up hard with the other. And the argument that pulling up can cause undue stress on the your lower back muscles and hip flexors, well...isn't stress on muscles what ultimately makes them stronger? Just as strong quads strengthen your knees, don't strong glutes and lower back muscles help support your back?

I've never been a big fan of this perfect pedal circle technique. Common sense should tell you that the human body is well equipped for pushing and not pulling. But many years ago in my cycling development I was coached into this "perfect circle" mentality. Within a few a short years I began to develop hip flexor discomfort on the bike and low back/hip discomfort off the bike. I just more or less wrote it off to "getting older". But after watching this video it's got me thinking a bit more.

@billskolnik4908

Ай бұрын

You don't cycle in perfect circles. You just think you do. Circular peddling is great for coming up to cadence. Once your optimal cadence is achieved your down stroke dominates but your upstroke is always there waiting to attack when necessary.

@blaze1148

23 күн бұрын

@@billskolnik4908 Yup - I definitely pull up hard when sprinting on an incline.

@kovie9162

20 күн бұрын

Your physical issues could also be due to poor bike fit or some improper technique. Correlation is not causation. Oldest logical fallacy.

@racyrich829

18 күн бұрын

I'm like you. As I've got older I get a really sore lower back and hip flexors. Am I pedalling differently from when I was younger? I don't know. I sit more upright, and I think that makes it easier to pull up. When I use the Wattbike in the gym, with its pedal power sensors, I produce a near circular graph of power. If I concentrate on just the downstroke it's peanut shaped - apparently the ideal. So I think I have to try to adopt this style. All those years of roller training, track racing and winters on fixed wheel, wasted.

@kenhalal375

18 күн бұрын

@@racyrich829 I trained on the track a bit but never race much,. I still have my fixie and just got it back together last winter but have yet to ride it. I find that walking helps my back and hips way more than riding.

It may be anecdotal, but last week I changed from flats pedals to clipless for the first time after 17 years of biking (enduro, XC mainly) for my cardio circuits. My style of pedaling is a strong pushing downward pattern. I go to the gym 4/5 times a week, so my lower back is well trained. I was eager to accentuate this technique of 'swiping' back the leg that I heard everywhere. And for the first time in 17 years, since last week I feel my lower back during my rides. So you may be into something ... But let's not forget that scientific studies only present a model with the last knowledge, not an absolute truth. Some persons can be outsiders and actually have a better performance with this technique without problems.

Great explanation. Agree completely. Switched to flat pedals and sticky rubber cycling shoes a while back and my pedaling technique is just as he describes.

@Ghost12561

Ай бұрын

only if you are not doing competitive cycling.

@Krith220

28 күн бұрын

clipless is still better because it locks you into the correct position (if cleats are adjusted correctly)... I hate having to readjust my feet when getting back on my flat pedal mountain bike after stops and such.

Completely agree regarding efficiency, but I do pull occasionally to rest the pushing muscles. Helps to strengthen the hip flexors and abs. In stand up pedal pulling also helps give respite to the push muscles while the arms push on the bars rather than pull. The idea is to rest muscle groups.

There was a coach who said that the better cyclists work less against themselves on the pedal stroke. Personally I thought of this too: the pushing down on the leg is a natural thing the body does at various power levels, all throughout the past of the human species. Running uphill, carrying weights, running, and lifting things up, it is all the same stretching of the leg. Hence it makes sense that this muscle is large and can be trained well, to acomodate different demands of life upon people in the past (and present). The lifting up of the leg however, seems to have no other use than to just pull up that leg. I cannot really see any other events which require a human to pull up their leg with more force than needed to lift its own weight ? The same is true for pushing the foot forward or back. Hence I concluded this, in line with aforementioned coach: the muscles for the upstroke can and should be trained to lift up the leg, but only and exactly to the point of unweighting the pedal, and no more. My experience is that it helps greatly with overall speed, for the same effort. It seems to me that if you come from a background of casual city riding at slow speeds, it possible that you let your leg hang on the upstroke, because that is the most lazy way to keep going (or at least for me). Hence if you try to change this (in my opinion) bad habit of letting your leg hang on the upstroke, you have to train to change it, as did I. I went at it too eagerly of course, and this caused some to be expected muscle pain. It is also a bit hard to change a long standing habit, but the reward seems to be well worth it. This seems to be a pedal method you omitted in your video: not to pull up on the pedal, but to just lift your leg to the point the force on the pedal is about zero. You then put most of the force in the down stroke, and ignore the upper and down angles of the pedal stroke. It makes sense to me, and it works for me at least. What do you think ? It makes little sense to me, to push down on the pedal in an effort to move forward, and then also have to deal with pushing up your other leg as well, even though that other leg has its own muscles to do just that. Maybe everyone already pedals like that ? I said nothing ;o. Have a good day !

@bjornlangoren3002

23 күн бұрын

Absolutely! And we don't even need clipless pedals to do that. I use exactly the same technique on flat pedals vs clipless. When I get very tired, and just trying to survive, and the muscle between the ears also is tapping out, I sometimes have to remind myself to pedal light by taking weight off the upstroke. It absolutely makes a big difference being able to get up the hill at all vs blowing up half way. Even the pros get hit by it. How often have we seen in those big races someone about to get dropped is "pedaling square". All they have left is the downstroke, and then they get dropped like a sack of potatoes.

So in simple terms, use your preferred technique ie just ride and if youre feeling good push down harder.

I personally improved massively by going clipless and smoothing out the forces by consciously concentrating on doing circles. Not quite pulling up but lifting the weight on the up stroke.

@bjornlangoren3002

Ай бұрын

This. Is what works for me. And the technique is the same whether I use clipless or not. Climbing a tough hill with a fixed speed bike is so much easier when i can keep that feather light feel and dont task my downstroke with not just moving the whole body and bike forward but having to lift the full weight of my other leg as well. Legs have some weight. I never thought clipless was about pulling the pedal up on the upstroke.

@skyriminspace

Ай бұрын

I'll be paying more attention next time i ride but i'm pretty sure this is what i'm doing. Not pulling up at all but definitely going light or neutral with the leg that's currently recycling back to the top.

@Thronar666

22 күн бұрын

Just smoothing out into equilibrium

@bjornlangoren3002

22 күн бұрын

When I think of it, riding a fixed speed is probably best way to improve the technique. Unlike a freewheel, your own weight and the bike's momentum keeps the pedals spinning, and if you fail to lift your weight off the upstroke, you can actually feel the momentum push the leg and the whole body up.

Learned to pull the pedal up on the upstroke only for sprinting or steep climbing. The other important thing was angling, meaning to lower the heel to overcome the upper deadspot (12 o' clock position) and lower the toes on the bottom deadspot (6 o' clock position). Since I use Zen cleats, which have a larger angle towards the front than regular Look or SPD-SL cleats, I learned to just push down and pull straight up again as they are built to do the angling job for you, so your foot can stay in its natural position.

I seriously injured my hip flexor by doing this exact thing, pulling up forcefully on the pedals. It's still an issure after a year and 1/2, but trying to work through it

Good video. My thoughts...you can find studies that prove or disprove anything. You can find studies which prove that the planet Earth is flat! As far as pedaling technique, 30-35 years ago there were numerous studies proving that scaping at the bottom of the pedal stroke and/or pulling up was the secret sauce to pedaling power and efficiency. Just ask Greg LeMond! I think you have to adopt a technique that works for you as an individual as everyone is different. The key is efficiency and smoothness which is often more important than power. Years ago, back when I was learning how to ride competitively, the first thing you had to learn is developing smoothness (soupleese, Fr.) in your pedal stroke. Power comes later.

Hey, do you have any videos about riding out of the saddle, in the same way you break down sprinting and other aspects?

Thank you, mate!

Tore my cartilage pulling over the 12 o' Clock position, too much. I'm a broken man. New knee needed.

And now the differences of pedaling seated vs non-seated. In my mind, I'm using my weight to push the pedal down.

Hi, Interresting. How do you associate this with crank length and cadence ? Does it mean that what helps downstroke (long arm crank) is finally better ? Perhaps not if it depends of the start angle of the hip/thigh. Can we say that too high knee position at the top of downstroke reduce the initial muscle power ?

You really made me think. I recently did a MTB race and the last couple of miles my lower back was killing me.

brilliant,Thanks.

for me pulling habit is happen when muscle for down pedaling in serious condition or in fatigue. often happened when do long climbing or over sprinting the leg automatically try to find subsidiary power from up stroking.

I totally agree and this is matches my personal fealing. If I try to pedal 360 I get exhausted way faster, similar to pedaling out of the saddle. I only do it when I need an extra push on steeper bits or to max out speed quicker on short efforts. My let's say 90% of the time I pedal using downstrock only which feels natural and works better for me with or without clipless pedals.

Does anyone genuinely pull up... Like really? Maybe when it max acceleration, or on super steep hills, but other than that, pedaling circles is a out looking to engage the down stroke as early as possible, and extend the power phase as long into the down stroke as is practical. The upstroke is ideally running neutral so you are not lifting one leg with your other legs down stroke.

@tonyp4536

21 күн бұрын

Go to mostly pull up on long hills to give other muscles a break. Also when trying to do a quick acceleration. Mostly short term stuff. Majority is just pedaling that feels smooth and comfortable do not focus on a specific range in the pedal stroke

Hi there. I’ve been doing this for years. But I went and tried the circular mode and ending up feeling fatigued in my hamstring What I did is just went back to my normal /natural way. But one thing came back. Is that burning pain in my quads. That the cause that needs to let the front group go and wait for the second group to go with. This happens to me during group rides and races 😢

Damian, I am a casual recumbent rider struggling with hip flexor discomfort. I feel like I'm over using it but I'm not sure what to do about it because the recumbent bike position basically necessitates lifting my leg with the hip flexor. I was wondering if you might have suggestions.

Doesn't a Sprinter Pull up when they do a Sprint??? Sooo Wouldn't up-peddling train the muscle group that is required on a Sprint ? as long as you are only doing short intervals and not a constant lame grinding on your legs ?? I know when I need a Break from a long grind I will Up peddle for a bit just to give my legs a break. Works soo far for me and Im 60+ :)

Thx for that. I’m a circular pedalist…pedaler? Whatever…you get my drift. So, now i guess I’ve gotta unlearn that habit.

I can't find any comments below regarding slow vs. fast twitch muscle fibers. Most cyclists and runners are likely to have more red, slow-twitch muscle fibers in their lower back and leg biceps, probably including myself. On a long climb my quads quickly go dead and I rely on pulling back and up, with the feeling of my heels pushing against the backs of my shoes on the recovery lower quarter turn. Similarly, in running a famous coach preached that when running competitively your feet should be swiping the ground, exactly the way horses, cats, etc., do. So, style strongly depends on your body mechanics and muscle makeup.

Very right and useful ! Thanks.

Coincidentally, I've recently encountered some uncomfortable clicking on my left knee. It usually presents at or close to 30 miles. And I notice that , if I redirect my focus from naturally pedaling harder on down strokes to switching emphasis to pedaling harder on the up stroke, it usually clears the discomfort. I do have heavily conditioned hip flexors from doing classic sit-ups over 45 years so affecting them is seemingly a non-issue. (I think)...Anyway, if it persists I'll go see a sports specialist/ortho. Cheers!

Recently I developed pain in my left hip flexor. I was wondering why this was happening. At the same time in recent weeks I was intentionally trying to pull pedals up. Now this video probably explained why this happened 🙂 I'll drop that and see how it goes. Thanks ✌️🙂

Can you comment on the CRZ Control youtube videos ? pulling up seems to be one of the technique to climb steep hills.

I generally agree with this. Of course, you’ll want to vary your pedal stroke based on circumstances, especially if you race. I find some variation makes sense for: 1) times when your fatigued and want to change it up for a short while; 2) steep climbs at low cadence; 3) standing starts (on the track); 4) max efforts at different durations have different requirements - 10 second sprint vs 30 second anaerobic vs 3 minutes VO2 vs 30 minutes at threshold. I recommend experimenting when doing intervals and seeing how technique and cadence relate to power output.

I have been looking to improve my pedaling I have been riding for 40 plus years and have watched lots of videos this technique is by far the best one I’ve tried I was able to get my L 43%/R 57% that’s the closest I’ve ever had I think I will be able to get it almost to a balanced 50/50 using this method

I believe you would be extremely interested in the TRISKELION concept invented by Panos Zaraphonitis which mechanically maximizes the propulsive phase. All the best.

Been riding road bikes w/ clipless pedals since 1993....the only time I pull up on a pedal stroke is while sprinting (especially if the cadence drops a little), and I'm not consciously trying to do it. Other than that.....nope. Don't need to pull up to have a smooth pedal stroke either. "Preferred" is what I use for cadence as well, not because someone tells me that 90+ rpms is "the most efficient". For a certain power/effort level, sure....but riding along at 95 rpms in zone 2.....nope (upper 70's/low 80's is my sweet spot for that).

Consistency is important....but so is changing your style on different terrain....in between efforts you can settle into a rhythm that benefits from and maintains your momentum with minimal exertion

Question for the Preferred technique proponents: I guess you guys never stand then, eh? Here's what a former pro taught me when I was a junior. Say you're racing a long climb and you realize you're going into the red. If you can use different muscle groups -- standing, obviously, but pulling up also works because it involves a different group of muscles -- you can give yourself some recovery. That is, if you've practiced how to do it. Or, just keep pushing down because it's "the most mechanically efficient" and bonk.

@tonyp4536

Ай бұрын

Definitely do this on long climbs. I do all the things he said you should not do. I push through the bottom, pull up push over the top etc. When one muscle is cooked I need to give it a break so it can recover. Don't we all stand and sit during a climb for the same reason. Seems to me I can put the most pressure on the pedals at the top half of the downward stroke not the bottom half. I think that is true when standing but sitting I just do not feel the pressure on the pedal at the bottom quarter of the the down cycle.

Do less to achieve more! love it and thanks!

The problem with preferred technique as a concept is that it is contradictory. let's say you work on a new technique and you are inefficient while it is new. Let's say it becomes your new technique. So that becomes the new most efficient because it is preferred . But which one of the preferred techniques most efficient? Okay there is a bike fitter in KZread land who figures most people who visit him (so the population he witnesses is the serious rider) come in with seat set too high. So if this is the case people are pedalling with a preferred technique, which is many of them, and likely most efficient because it is the preferred. If they lower the saddle.they would likely have to change the pedalling technique and have an even more efficient stroke. So lesson is your current pedalling technique may not be the most efficient.

@tonyp4536

21 күн бұрын

Followed the concept that the seat is too high and slowly moved I’d down and after a day or two to adapt my power increased. I always worked to be smooth and not rocking in the saddle but it still was a bit too high. I think if you can afford a bike fit you would save a lot of trial and error.

Pulling up on the pedals is huge benefit on climbs, dunno what this guy is talking about

Is kick and pull a good strategy?

Pour prolonger la vidéo, il y a une tendance chez certains à recommander le pédalage avec le milieu du pied sur la pédale, plutôt qu'avec l'avant du pied. L'idée est qu'on peut ainsi appliquer une force plus grande dans le prolongement direct de la jambe , sans forcer sur l'articulation de la cheville. C'est un peu comme quand on monte un escalier en posant tout le pied sur la marche. Que pensez vous de cette idée?

Wrong! Pushing forward at 1 o’clock and then down till five o’clock at the same time lift the non pedaling leg not pulling up but removing the weight so other leg does not have to lift it. This is the most efficient and powerful method

Does using flat pedals help? To train this technique?

Spot on. You've gotta pound the crap out of the pedals through the downstroke. Hip and knee flexion (pulling back/up) is SO FEEBLE compared to hip and knee extension (pushing) that pulling up is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a waste of energy. Anyone who thinks they get benefit from pedaling in "circles" aren't pushing the pedals properly in the first place. A lot of coaches try to complicate the issue to sell services: no one's gunna pay a "pedaling technique expert" if they simply say "just push the pedals down", so they make up other useless crap to get your money. Having said all that, contrary to the opinion of many, the hammies are involved in the downstroke, because their primary function is hip flexion (touch the hammies to feel them contract when you push down). However, the range of hip flexion when pedaling is limited, so the hamstrings aren't as involved as they are when doing movements such as squatting or deadlifting

Top and bottom dead centre are not 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock 🤦Think about it.

There's a very simple way to improve your pedal stroke. Find a climb that's 5 - 10 miles in length and averages 6% - 7% gradient. Then once a week put your bike in the biggest gear you have, say 53/12, and ride up it while remaining seated at all times. I guarantee you that this will force you to pedal in a circle. After that, you can just use your 'preferred' pedal stroke 95% of the time, but you'll be amazed at how much more power you'll be able to generate when you need to close those gaps, or lead out a sprint. It'll be as if you suddenly discovered a whole new source of power. But it's not meant to be used all the time. I've used this technique on climbs that were 12% - 13%, it's very effective when it comes to learning to pedal a complete circle. Oh, and once a week you should do the exact same climb in your smallest gear, say 43/23, with two goals... maintain 80+ rpm throughout the climb, and do it faster in your smallest gear than you did it in your biggest gear... which may sound easy, but I guarantee you it's not. There are a lot of different ways to learn to be a better climber, but doing these two exercises is by far the best.

Optimal Pedal Technique starts at 3:17! But I recommend to watch the entire video from the beginning to know the pros and cons of different pedalling techniques. Great video! 😀👍

Preach brother! upstroke is a myth - flat pedals 4 lyfe

Pedal stroke will NEVER be circular! At 12 o’clock, the foot is outside the crank arm length. At 6 o’clock, the foot is “within” the crank arm length. Not a circle!

@mettler54

Ай бұрын

Pedal stroke is always circular.

I was an athlete ( tripe jumper ) I use the sweeping method at the bottom of the stroke, only to 7 o clock positon. To me this makes sense as I'm pushing the pedal away ( behind ) at the same time the down stroke is engaging. If you watch an efficient sprinter, they don't stamp down on the track they circle the feet propelling themselves forward.

@xGshikamaru

Ай бұрын

So many things out there don't make sense, if this was true everyone would be riding oval chainrings yet they don't. I do the sweeping technique with oval chainrings and to me this allows me to climb better because there's no dead zone during the pedal stroke. Doing it well out of the saddle is a whole different ordeal though, I struggle to be efficient at it and that's precisely because I'm predominantly using a downward movement with the weight of my body on the pedals

@jooohan

Ай бұрын

Sweeping feels somewhat most natural to me. I have to actively think about it, though (still).

I don't use clipless, I prefer to be able to make slight adjustments on my footposition when needed. I still think my cycling is smooth and efficient compared to many other cyclists. A good bikefit is essential. At 58 yrs of age I still keep up with most cyclists half my age so I must be doing something right. I have done and still do all sorts of cycling, Road/gravel biking, mountainbiking and fully packed travelling/camping trips.

I have tested several times to pedal the whole 360. Every time i get a ca 5 bpm higher Hr for the same watt. My natural stroke is more down and up.

nice video, on sprints on my racing bike i focus 100% on getting my knees to my chin, so not stomping on the pedals but in sprints just getting knees up and pulling on the pedals, at least that feeling. It completely boosted my sprints to absurd speeds. For regular mtb I hardly noticed any speed differences between clipless or with clips on a technical course of 1 hour. GCN also did a surprising video about flatpedals vs spd. They were surprised about the result. But something on a video technical note. please please ditch the horrible background music. it's terrible and distracts ;-)

Booya. This is good advice.

Unfortunately I didn't hear the option of mixing in some circular pedaling at various times on your ride depending on terrain, muscle fatigue and ride goals. I have one 12% hill in particular where circular pedaling helps me to climb with less fatigue and 1mph faster which when you're 72 is important. So while I agree with many of the main topics the right answer can vary. I also find pulling thru and up helps if I'm trying to focus on strengthening my hamstring. Not every ride of course but the video is too quick to discount any benefit from pulling thru or pulling up. "It depends" is the right answer for me and I suspect others. Another method I use from time to time is pull up every few pedal strokes for a minute or two. I also didn't see any discussion of the advantages/disadvantages of your pedaling technique when out of the saddle.

@Ucanbikexc

22 күн бұрын

I like your answer, it depends. Traction is always a concern as well and you must adapt your power stroke and roundness of your pedaling to the terrain. Closing a gap or sprinting will 'depend' as well, lol. Mix up your spin and lower rpm's depending on the situation. There is huge difference between a 1km sprint and a 100km TTT and a 6 hour ride.

I find this is so dependent on physiology that its difficult to generalise.. I have a huge amount of power in my calves and hamstrings from years of training (cycling, weights, rowing), so my natural stroke is to balance between quads and hams, if i try to disengage my hams then i lose a huge amount of power and efficiency and seated climbs become much, much tougher, the stats from my performance (power, heart rate, speed over the same climbs) and pedal data are proof of this. This may be quite different for people with different physiology but thats exactly my point, not utilising two of my biggest physiological assets makes absolutely zero sense. Never had an injury or back pain related to this either after 35 years of cycling.

I was a spinning instructor in 2008 and there was heavy emphasis on pedaling in circles. It’s a little embarrassing to think about barking the scrapping your shoe command. In the years since I’ve spent some time each season thinking about should refining my stroke but then fall back into regular habits.

So, should I pedal as if I was thinking I am milking a cow then? I only use flats&training shoes, not clip-ins. I'm not entering the Olympics.

It's new to me that people think about all of these stuff. I just cycle to get from A to B, and hardly think about how I'm pedalling! I just enjoy the views on the road while cycling my way to work. I guess these are usefull stuff for racers.

oh man, pulling up is deff the way to go when riding over 80* of max hr level efforts

This technique can be proven easily with physics, I mean kinematics and dynamics. When you try to draw a figure about circular motion, the force vector is ALWAYS perpendicular to the radius of the drawn circle. So when you try to exert force to the circle (which is in this case the gear), the direction where you originally pushed, closes an angle with the previously named force vector. The effective force is the force you exerted multiplied by the cosines of the angle, so in the best case it is 0 (cos0°=1), which can be reached at 3 o'clock; and that's why it is useless to push the pedal when it is at 6 o'clock where (cos 90°=0).

@francescosaturnino113

Ай бұрын

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsovever. The radius of a circle is not a vector, it's a scalar and therefore doesn't have a direction.

@erlyx3207

Ай бұрын

@@francescosaturnino113 "the force vector is always perpendicular to the radius of the drawn circle" just read the whole comment again

@francescosaturnino113

Ай бұрын

@@erlyx3207 How can you have a vector perpendicular to a scalar? The radius is no vector, you can draw it at any angle through a circle, there's no defined direction.

@roberthotter7008

29 күн бұрын

You only look at a small piece of the picture, neglecting metabolism and the factor time.

Great video but that music is rough. It's hard to hear you over it when it's loud.

Hey Coach, you're probably too young to know about the BioCam Drive system put out by Houdaille Industries in the early 80s. This crank system forced the rider to exert power from 1 o'clock to 5 o'clock with the remainder of each pedal revolution as "rest" cycle ( haha). I was unsuccessful in campaigning this system in the first RAAM but it did teach me that pedaling in circles is bullshit and not every rider is 1 to 5 in terms of peak power.

@sprocketandwheel

Ай бұрын

I remember that cam system..it was difficult to install, and it also used a huge gear. Mid to high 50's with a 13 on the rear.. My pedaling teqnicue is to push forward and downwards than to un weigh the pedal slightly on up stroke and repeat the same action with the opposite leg. Pulling up hard and putting down maximum power will be only possible for a short period of time.. IE..Sprinting..not for sustainable time.. I believe this is the reason that European cyclists used to ride a fixed gear in the early season..

@user-lt4px4qw1g

12 күн бұрын

引き上げ「四時引き上げ」しないと自転車特有のハンドリングに合わせて踏み込みできず脚の回復が入らないので，均等の力よりスピード維持のため弱者は引き上げ優先的にしてます．尚，日本人の前側優先の筋肉群はハムも踏みに使うので，欧米人に勝つことは永遠に不可能．

So should we just use flat pedals and get away from the clipless pedal. It would definitely be safer

@bjornlangoren3002

Ай бұрын

Maybe safer for a rank beginner. Takes a while to get used to clipless and automatically clip out where needed. But to me clipless pedals are an essential safety device. You will never end up crushing the family jewels on the top tube because of your feet losing contact with the pedals. Clipless lets you pedal through pretty sharp turns without scraping the ground. Clipless lets you bunny jump over obstacles with ease.

@tonyp4536

23 күн бұрын

I think that the one argument from this view is that the pros still use clip less pedals. If only pushing down is the most efficient way there is no reason to be clipped in. I recall when moving from flat pedals to those cages I had more power. Even more when I moved to clipless. I know that when I combine pushing with pulling my watts increases. I do agree that most of a ride the majority of pedaling is pushing down. But for short spurts of acceleration I do both and will change what part of the pedal stroke I focus on when I am cooked on a hill. That short break gives muscles a chance to recover.

@kovie9162

20 күн бұрын

Safer only to people who can't master using clipless pedals. It's like saying that trainer wheels are safer on bikes since there's less chance of falling off--if you can't figure out how to cycle! The only people calling clipless pedals unsafe are people who've never used them, and likely the same people who ride in unnecessarily high gears on climbs, because they're "macho".

@kovie9162

20 күн бұрын

@@tonyp4536 The main purpose of clipless pedals is to prevent shoes from slipping on the pedals during hard pedaling and is about safety, not power or efficiency.

@bjornlangoren3002

20 күн бұрын

Also, if you shy away from clipless due to "safety concerns", you better get a step in frame, or socalled lady bike. They are kind of floppy so not great at climbing or descending at great speed, but excellent for riding in town, easy to get on and off, and zero chance of damaging your genitals.

No mention of pedalling action, toe down or dropping the heal before the up stroke. Look at the pros side on especially the big ones. Their power stroke time is maximised when the heal is dropped. There are different styles of pedalling required , dependant on the terrain, You choose , thats the fun in it. Try pedalling fast round corners in the rain to pass over a metal drain cover or white line. The pedalling must be smooth and supple to ensure there is no noticeable change of pace inflicted on the wheel contact.with the road surface. That is SKILL. Reference last World Champs in Glasgow !

Yeah, I agree 100 % - focus on natural force down stroke is thing, I´ve used pulling and in combination with over training in general, I ended up with hip flexor problems...

Thats not black or white. It is possible to make 360' efficient. But you need time, good fitting etc.Its not on/off option.

If you don't lift then your other leg, on the downstroke, has to push the other leg up. Energy that could have gone into the bike's drive train.

What I want to know is this. Does Tadej Pogacar worry about this? If he doesn’t then I won’t.

I'd need to see hard test data to believe this as otherwise it just comes across as yet another faddish trend of which there seem to be so many in cycling. I mean when people started saying that wider tires were faster most people were naturally skeptical because it's counterintuitive and went against decades of accepted views and practice. But when lots of solid test data backed this up, people overcame their natural resistance to this idea and mostly moved to wider tires. But even then this revised rule is not cut and dry and mainly applies to average road conditions and is as much about rider comfort as speed and efficiency, and on high quality roads narrower tires at higher pressure are still generally faster and it's mostly on lower quality roads at lower tire pressures that these results are seen, as I understand it. Wider is better doesn't always mean faster. Same here. I'm guessing that pulling on the upstroke can be less efficient if you do it wrong, but it just makes no sense that it harms rather than helps if you do it right. Since two different legs using two different sets of muscles are doing the pushing and pulling, why would one interfere with or degrade the other? Again, I'd need to see hard test data to believe that. It's not like engine pistons which can only push on the crankshaft after the fuel-air mixture is ignited and are just along for the ride during the upstroke.

Maybe best to get your position sorted on the bike. That lady at the start is pointing toes down at the bottom of the stroke. Suggests the saddle is maybe too high and power will be lost. Or not. Oh well….

The way it was explained to me in about 1972 was that you wanted to think about lifting your foot, not to provide power, but to ensure that you didn't push down and waste power from your other foot.

A lot of if's and or maybes that also have no scientific support.

I've always cycled on flat pedals. Being clipped in is so abnormal. Surprise, surprise. Causes damage to the cyclist too. Nice to know. 😮

😂 you cant avoid pulling in race specially on sprint to the finish

Best to pratice pedalling technique is to cycle normal pedal and normal shoes

Maximum power is never efficient. A drag racer burns more than a gallon per second.

I like to imagine my feet each being a hamster in a wheel. Targeting my power towards that sweet spot were I can get max torque.

Exactly the same as cadence. Preferred or natural is scientifically proven to be the most effective. Your body is smart ! If you try to ride like a pro ……….

Music is too loud, very bad.

BACKGROUND MUSIC IS TOO LOUD. CAN’T HEAR THE GUY WELL.

Claiming that pulling while pedaling is inefficient if the intent is to equalize the pulling and pushing forces during a pedal stroke is a straw man argument, because the intent of pulling isn't to equalize these forces but rather to supplement the obviously much greater pushing force with a much lesser but still helpful pulling force with a leg that otherwise would just be dead weight along for the ride during that part of the stroke. Even if it only adds 10% force then that's still 10% more than would otherwise be contributing to the net force applied to the cranks, and that's a good thing. The real argument against pulling, if it can be proven, is that whatever additional force it adds to the overall stroke, it takes even more away from the pushing force, resulting in a net lower overall force. Or, that it fatigues both legs such that over the course of a given ride less net power has been put out than would be put out by only pushing and not pulling. Has this been shown to be the case in proper testing, and if so is it independent of pedaling technique or dependent on it?

High cadence isn't a problem

@Ucanbikexc

22 күн бұрын

Very few riders even know what a high cadence even is. Most cyclists become gear grinders unless someone takes them under their wing.

Literally everybody is contradicting themselves at the exact same time. Who the hell am I supposed to believe? I will say that the reduction in injury does make sense because I do feel discomfort with the circular motion, especially in my knees and lower back. To not be giving your legs a break at any point during the stroke does seem counterintuitive, but I do sense a difference in the stride on the bicycle when I do pull up. So what the f*** am I supposed to believe

wanna go fast, PUSH teh pedal

After years of cycling without computers and apps, I can tell you that learning your own body and where you are energy wise, is the best way to start.

Useless one-legged drills? How typical of a person with two functional legs to trash one-legged drills. Any Para-Olympian cyclist can tell you that one-legged drills are of great benefit. After all, most of the Para-Olympians only have one functional leg.

A view on oval chainrings on pedal technique would be interesting.. not the old Shimano one, but the view that has changed the oval through 90 degrees from the original..