Timestamp: 7:24, while testing the EPS connector for voltage, you can see the meter knob is set to resistance for some odd reason. When you applied power, the resistive shunt load in the meter was seen as a short, causing the power supply to trip the heck out for over-current protection.

@jamesgreen5431

11 ай бұрын

Caught that as well. Phil was turning it on and could have fried their meter.

@Haustorium12

11 ай бұрын

Wow. nice catch!

@nukeum9535

11 ай бұрын

with that said, possible there was a power relay or even the IC that controls the reset that was locked closed. jay said he didnt pull the cmos battery? providing resistance could have drain the power and freed the relay/IC. what else was probed in the ohms meter setting?

@jamesgreen5431

11 ай бұрын

The meter on ohms likely caused the overcurrent that the PSU freaked out on

@Rocsemail

11 ай бұрын

Ohm meters when connected to a circuit do affect resistance but I don't think the meter has a low enough resistance to trip anything. I'm waiting to think a ohm meter presents like 1mega ohm or better to a live circuit. Please let me know if I'm wrong it has been awhile since I troubleshooted a circuit board

A lot of power management ICs have built in short circuit protection. Sometimes that function is very particular about seeing perfectly zero volts before it'll clear. It should be noted that passive cap drain is non-linear and never reaches true zero volts unless a resistor is placed across the terminals to bleed off the charge. A possibility is that, like you saw with the PSU caps, the multimeter on the EPS pins was acting as a very large pull-down resistor. That might have discharged the caps in that circuit just enough to allow SCPs to reset. That's also possibly why the PSU was cycling like that since it's own SCP was triggering, draining, and resetting.

@Napo-so1pe

11 ай бұрын

Yes. I agree with this. When Jay was probing he got the caps to a complete zero and they had to recharge. When you build a pc the mb caps are still slightly above 0v so first start up isn't as bad.

@rashkavar

11 ай бұрын

Wait, you're supposed to use a resistor to drain the caps? Wow, my electronics class back in high school was playing fast and loose with the rules, then! We just rubbed a screwdriver along the back of the circuit board, deliberately shorting the caps over a piece of metal thick enough to handle it. Granted, we were making strobe lights, not computer parts. We had single layer acid etched PCB with hand cut traces about a millimeter wide, so we're talking about the least delicate that electronics get without going to the ruggedized stuff intended for military use and such. But still! We probably should have been taught the careful method!

@ejeckk

11 ай бұрын

It would seem then that the motherboard's circuitry protection did its job. It's the recovery from fault that is onerous. Is there a step-by-step SOP one should follow to fault recover vs poking around until something happens? I cannot image others have not had the same issue and likely thought the mobo was dead. Any suggestions?

@Neodymium5312

11 ай бұрын

​​@@rashkavar it's not necessarily dangerous but you can definitely kill some stuff without using a resistor since the screwdriver method is all beans no brakes. Some electronics will not take a huge surge like that well. Really depends on what you're working on but a lot of techs just use the screwdriver method since it's usually fine. The electricity will take the shortest and easiest path to ground and for anything below 1kv you probably don't have to worry about the handle of the screwdriver being conductive

@nateg452

11 ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking, @jayztwocents 100% this.

Seeing Jay witness the dark sorcery that is computer hardware and watch his brain melt in real time was a real treat. I'm bedazzled as well

@BalvornLupus

11 ай бұрын

"We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed and we've been quite possibly, bamboozled." ~Sarge RvB. I had a m.2 SSD stop responding to anything oneday after threatening to install windows on a sata drive again it started working again. Like it wouldnt even dectect in the bios. Still going strong to this day weirdest thing ive encountered to date

@kratosdertoten4035

11 ай бұрын

@@BalvornLupus "Threatening to install windows on a sata drive" Lmao no wonder you practically shocked the system back to life haha

@Hirokuro_Asura

11 ай бұрын

@@BalvornLupus One should never underestimate the threat of windows os being installed upon it... 😅

@nicolasthibeault345

10 ай бұрын

Static?

@jenrosejenrose7417

9 ай бұрын

reminds me of when I set up a network, out of desperation, exactly opposite what was being described and it suddenly worked when it turned out my hardware wasn't supposed to work that way at all. I still don't know why it did, and I don't remember exactly what I did at all, but it was our network for years and kept ticking along just fine. (something something tricked a router into acting like a hotspot even though it wasn't supposed to do that by telling it the main network was the isp?)

NOTE: random voltage spikes, such as you described, can set random data states in the chipset and bios, etc. For example, relays can get stuck. All this can be eventually cleared by the continued restart cycles. or even just leaving on the shelf for a month or two.

@JB-hc7hq

11 ай бұрын

Shelf aka healing bench

@MaidanuMc

3 ай бұрын

maybe my old mobo is healed after almost 3 years :))) i will need to test it soon

this is one of "THOSE" issues where we just shrug and assume the parts are haunted and you keep them around just to see how far you can push them till they go off bang

@pavelcuba9260

11 ай бұрын

My r9 270x since 2014 still Rolling, after 3 times baking it...😂 I will never let it die

@GAMER_WITH_RTX3080TI

11 ай бұрын

@@pavelcuba9260 WHO LET YOU COOK MY MAN

@falcie7743

11 ай бұрын

​@@pavelcuba9260I hope you didn't cook it in your food oven. Toxic metals and chicken aren't a good mix.

@greggreg2458

11 ай бұрын

@@pavelcuba9260 I baked my 770, resurrected.

@patryk2535

11 ай бұрын

@@pavelcuba9260 after 3 "cookings" the caps on it must be dry like a dead dingo donger. wonder how long will take them to destroy your power delivery system :) but this card is so old now it probably doesn't matter to you :)

"I brought this motherboard back from the dead! You'll never guess how!" NECROMANCY!!!

@dadosyleyendas

11 ай бұрын

Hi there I'm JayzTwocents the necromancer and today I will be doing an unboxing video.

@stevejones69420

11 ай бұрын

​@@dadosyleyendas*opens casket*

@TinchoX

11 ай бұрын

Jay is secretly a *Necromancer*

The fall of the backplate could cause "reverse" charging one of the components (capacitor/VRM etc) but not to the extent that it destroyed the component. For example, some VRM gate was charged + instead of - and blocked the boot sequence (correctly working protection). When you basically short-circuit the system while measuring EPS, everything discharged and could go back to its original state.

@blightborn87

11 ай бұрын

Ding ding ding!

@AlphaMachina

11 ай бұрын

This sounds about right.

@vsmash2

11 ай бұрын

My money is on that too, especially since i have seen that first hand happening in regular day appliances too.

@bicbuilds

11 ай бұрын

as soon as I read this a light went off in my head. I believe you're correct

@AquaTunes

11 ай бұрын

Why this reminds me to the Observer Effect that occurs in Quantum Mechanics 🤔🤣

Honestly... I loved this video so much, it's so great to see a "made it" content creator just be real, honest and authentic for once.

@Davethreshold

11 ай бұрын

EXACTLY what I thought and gave him an out loud compliment for that. I do think though that the good ones like Jay, Steve Burke, and Linus are very genuine. We've seen them in hot spots more than once. ❤

I had a Van that was like this. It died, wouldn't start at all for like a week, so then it sat in the driveway for a few Months. One Day I went to try to start it and it fired right up without doing anything and never had any trouble after that, it self-healed.

@denniskarlsson6173

11 ай бұрын

Sometimes your car just needs to be left alone to reflect on life xDD

@nunya3163

11 ай бұрын

It was probably just tired, and needed a vacation to rest up.

@falcie7743

11 ай бұрын

Could have been a leak of some kind that sealed when it got contaminated with air/dirt, and letting it sit slowly sealed the leak.

@kyraellearyk604

11 ай бұрын

had a gm that would do this, but it was actually a bit smaller of an interval, turned out to be the crankshaft position sensor magnet had fallen off, so when it was running temps it'd die and not crank back up, and always seemed to first thing in the morning when I left for work... but it was more likely that at least when warm the magnet wasn't lining up with the sensor at the correct timing so the computer wouldn't let it continue the starting cycle (so no spark and fuel were given thus a turn over condition but no start) Meh, there's ghosts in these electronics, why'doncha do some alcohol aboot it?

@tyrinonbrightblade

11 ай бұрын

It was an O-ring of Regeneration. I had an old Subaru with one. It didn't matter what I did with/to that car, it always came back to life. lol

If I see it correctly, when you measured the EPS you set your multimeter to resistance, that's what triggered the overcurrent protection of the powersupply

@AK90

11 ай бұрын

I saw that too

@Jayztwocents

11 ай бұрын

Good to know! However whats interesting is that doing that is what caused it to actually start...

@stjepanzeko6403

11 ай бұрын

i saw multimetwr conected on 10A port, he didn't use it right, to mesure voltage on multimeter you need to uce voltage port, the right one and COM port

@AgentHeX_0007

11 ай бұрын

Yep @7:19

@chakflying1

11 ай бұрын

Damn that was dangerous, how did he not blow up the multimeter by sending 600W through it?

The PSU OCP triggering and you hearing relays clicking may have been a result of the multimeter being in resistance checking mode while you bridged +12V and GND on the EPS-8PIN leads where the PSU was connected to the mainboard. I suspect that much like in current measuring mode, the multimeter's electrical resistance becomes incredibly low or for all practical means zero, so in a nutshell, you shorted the PSU's 12V rail. Always use voltage measuring mode if you don't want to cause a short!

You would be shocked by how many short protections are on these boards! The capacitor voltage drain issue is why some older boards have LED's on them in seemingly random spots. They just don't do that anymore, because aesthetics is a thing now. On a modern board, you can use a resistor to drain the caps. Your multi-meter (the correct term btw) will also act as a resistor, since it puts a known load on what you're trying to measure, so you can get an accurate reading. That alone might have been enough to drain power in order to reset the SCP's.

@justfasial01

11 ай бұрын

they probably use resistors instead of LEDs now cuz it's cheaper and it's actually what you're supposed to do, most well designed circuits I've seen drain resistors, not drain LEDs.

@MilkerMurphy

11 ай бұрын

Aesthetics are one of the main reasons why PC building is rubbish these days. Entirely impractical shenanigans.

@Atlessa

11 ай бұрын

@@justfasial01 Resistors? Not diodes?

@jimman-beard2167

11 ай бұрын

I had one of those issues and when I put in different Ram it worked... I thought the ram was bad so i tested it in a different PC and the ram worked... just the prior mobo hated the ram for some reason... anyway both parts were working just didnt work together... and before anyone asks yes, the Ram was compatible it just hated that board.... it's strange.

@MilkerMurphy

11 ай бұрын

@@jimman-beard2167 That's why some mainboards have long compatibility lists for ram modules. Ram can be a pitfall.

Lately on newer boards they have automatic circuit breakers on the most sensitive parts, you have to wait for a while, and then put the power back on. These are also lately on the LAN, USB ports. You just have to take your time with these things. Next time, please use gloves, and to empty the capacitors, use a small resistor, and they are right away empty. So, patience is your best friend with this kind of conditions. That also counts for electronics.

@AndreasA.S.

11 ай бұрын

the better built ones have the PTC on the LAN, ive seen some that dont, i think they assume if you have a cheap board, you used all that money on a good switch.

@aaronjones4529

11 ай бұрын

Ahh yes, I've seen this on my m8's gigabyte board... I was overclocking/undervolting and it crashed then LAN wouldnt work... I wasted about an hour trying to remove and re-install different drivers (and was becoming concerned that I'd bust his PC), before I found a random online post of this exact issue as a "known" issue - unplug the PSU and try to start the system. Wait a few seconds for good measure. Plug it back in, and then it's fine?!?... That worked.

I've seen it where a bad cap that has shorted internally will keep a board from powering on, but after repeated attempts to power on the board will cause the cap to fail entirely and then the board will power on without the shorting cap. I've seen board where you can remove certain caps and it will still function perfectly fine.

@Rejetor

11 ай бұрын

Probably this is what happened

Hey Jay. I have a feeling that there might be a dry connection on one of the pins that you've checked and while you were probing you force the pin to connect. They are generally hard to see or notice and a re-solder would solve the issue. Maybe look at the pins you checked with the microscope.

"It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." Nice work, Jay. :)

Honestly I would flash the bios now because there is some chance it got corrupted while the initial short

I would check to make sure all the solder joints are good around the EPS area. Sometimes a short can cause a break in the solder joints and simply having the board in a different position can cause it to recreate contact. I've done a lot of work on CB Radios and the very same thing can happen. Also completely draining the capacitors can help "reset" the system sometimes.

Thank you for all the videos. Appreciate it.

Video intent aside the meter tutorial and general breakdown was nice to see. Even after just finishing a year of trade school focused on studying that that segment was entertaining and made the entire video feel worth watching. I think I appreciate the frustration with not knowing why something is suddenly working even more now and that makes the last portion of the video feel relatable.

0:20 I hope EK comes out with an LCD version of this eventually. It'd be cool to have some competition for that style of AIO rather than just having Corsair or NZXT (mainly; I know other companies do LCD pump blocks on AIOs, lol).

13:45 I think you answered your own question. I have seen a "short" happen before but power cycle and/or connecting front IO panels correctly fixed the issue, a temporary short causing system failure that is a protection standard these days. It stops you from frying your board but needs to (for lack of a better term) reset itself I believe in the same way it does memory training before booting.And I believe what triggered the current protection needed to be cleared for it to function properly.

@AndreasA.S.

11 ай бұрын

maybe the PTC got stuck in short. would mean a bad PTC and needs to be tracked down and replaced. if it fails to trip when needed (may be reason for the PSU cycling). the board will have no primary fuse. 🤔

I know this is kinda off topic, but I just wanted to thank you for posting all of your knowledge and teachings. Because of many of your videos I learned how to build and upgrade PC's and have actually made a small time side "business/hustle" building people Pc's and replacing/fixing/diagnosing parts and problems. I'm currently learning how to solder motherboards, mostly for laptop repair and building/replacement. However, your channel helped me start when I had no idea what I was doing, from building my own pc for the first time, to building my roommate's pc, to taking pc build requests and doing orders. Your channel helped me the entire way. Thank You.

Next time you have such an issue, try draining the mainboard's capacitors by placing a 250 to 1000 Ohm resistor between a +12V pin and GND on the EPS, aswell as on the 24Pin (do it for 12V, 5V and 3.3V there), wait a bit, then remove it and try booting up the board again.

First of all, when testing voltage rails use a common ground. Something on the ground plain like screw holes. then you can test output rails with a common ground. As far as the power supply it's overvolt protection (a relay) so it was trying to reset itself. It working might be just as simple as not giving it a chance the first time or it might come back at a later date during use ( a component that was slightly damaged during the shorting process) Best guess

Got an SF750, same series as your SF600. It's an incredible power supply, but confusing to people not used to: 1. it clicks at startup and shutdown (like a relay click) and it will scare you the first time you hear it 2. its fan is starting only at medium-high load, not at startup, and even when it starts it's at super low RPMs (just trust the PSU)

@sublime2craig

11 ай бұрын

Funny same thing happened to me with my Corsair RMx PSU. Corsair has this in their FAQ support section explaining that their psu's have an audible click when turning off/on. Scared the shit out of me 😂

Love your demonstration of hos capacitors work!

Jay, in all my time as an electronics tech in the military working on the B-1, B-2, and F-15, you just have to accept it for what it is. It’s just PFM, pure f’ing magic. I’ve talked to multiple engineers and read pages upon pages of theory to gain a better understanding on the hows and whys so I can better pinpoint the PCB that’s the culprit for the failure (s). The answer was always “I’m not entirely sure”. This was also 70s era tech… but I still stand by it being PFM.

We love the daily uploads 🔥

Typically, when a device behaves strangely, eg sometimes it turns on normally other times it doesn't, faulty capacitors are to blame. You may have damaged one of them and you will have more problems with this motherboard like boot loop etc

I have had this issue before on an AMD FX board. It's a partially blow part. Some capitors can blow in such a way they are still able to pass a current but that is just enough to convince you it is working. Once you apply a heavy load like gaming or bench marking it bombs out. I might suggest still having a look at it with North Ridge

Yes! I was really hoping that you would do this video

Cpu making good contact with the socket? Maybe the motherboard pins? Maybe bending it slightly to check the stuff at the back?

Smart theories on here! I agree with the reverse charging idea. I've been through this a couple times in the past during early watercooling attempts - I made a custom discharge tool (a resistor wired to two probes/alligator clips) and used that to discharge the board components and they typically came back to life. Probing with a multimeter or leaving for a prolonged period has this effect due to the natural discharge rate of the components.

@AndreasA.S.

11 ай бұрын

i used a small bundle of high resistance matched resistors, heat shrink wrap,, kapton tape, and put a electrical tape handle on it , with spring loaded hook clips for my short wire. i sometimes deal with higher power caps. been wanting to replace the leads with banana plugs

I was wondering about this board. Cool that you guys made the video about troubleshooting! Thanks

What you first test is near ATX 24 and 4 pin sockets. They are surface mounted fuse blocks, and labeled FB in silkscreen print.

With bench power supplies the clicking is over amperage aka device is pulling more amps that the overcurrent of the bench power supply is set for. I have also seen other devices where one applies voltage to a circuit it can on occasion burn out a shorted component the item works.

@pvpgamerdotcom

11 ай бұрын

This makes the most sense to me.

@luminatrixfanfiction

11 ай бұрын

So it's possible that the somewhere on the motherboard, the electrical current is encountering resistance on some pathway, and the MB is detecting that and saying to the power supply 'Hey, I don't have enough power, need more power'. Something is definitely shorted, but it seems that the motherboard can work around that by having the PSU force-feed it more power to offset the resistance of some current pathway somewhere on that MB. Can't be healthy for the motherboard, because it'll stress the components to an early failure point. Meaning that motherboard might die sooner or later after those failure points start cropping up.

My guess, the backplate overcharged something and that stuck some kind of transistor or relay on the "wrong" state, when you shorted the EPS rail with the multimeter in resistence mode, you cause a massive surge of power thru the board, basically discharging everything and almost killing the PSU and the multimeter along with it, after that, the board was back on "original" state and could boot again.

@KobraTrading

11 ай бұрын

Came here to comment this.

@randommuses2435

11 ай бұрын

Entertaining for sure... he's sort of like a cartoon character.

You plugged stuff into it and gave it power. OMG that is so amazing

@GoatzombieBubba

11 ай бұрын

Go away troll.

I'm really glad you have a working motherboard in the end. :)

Love these types of videos. I am having a random Power off issue with my computer. Was able to trouble shoot the ram... No issue. I am now leaning towards the power supply, but I didn't think they could go bad over time, either dead or alive. Only reason I am brining this up is because of course it hard shut off on me in the middle of this video.

@mtx33

11 ай бұрын

A PSU can be definitely "half dead" or just "tired". The electrolytic capacitors inside can (partially) dry out and lose their capacitance over time, lowering your PSU's ability to handle power spikes from your cpu or gpu (looking at you Nvidia) or to filter out external noise from other appliances and it can cause your system to freeze or shutdown (like when your fridge/oven turns on, etc). This capacitor problem can affect your motherboard too, if it's not "all solid state". In my experience electrolytic capacitor dry out is still the #1 reason for power supplies/chargers to go bad. YMMV

@demongod8600

11 ай бұрын

everything at any given time can go bad, just some stuff takes longer then other stuff to go bad

@auntiepha8343

11 ай бұрын

I had a Enermax D.F. 850Wattt PSU and my system would random shut down at idle, when gaming no problems. LOL I troubleshot everything first. Finally I swapped the Enermax PSU out with a Corsair RMx850Watt and my system is 100% stable again.

@user-ke2xu6kq9k

11 ай бұрын

Try to check your GPU... use to have same problem until I re-paste my GPU... never happen again since...

@squidwardo7074

11 ай бұрын

the only thing that will just die all at once is your cpu. if the pins on it are fucked or one of the cores just died it just wont boot at all

I have found when working on some boards that just the use of a multimeter to induce resistance on a circuit will sometimes allow the board to come on, it seems crazy but the rf stuff i worked on was crazy enough that we had an "electronics test"(after everything we could try was exhausted) We raised the board perpendicular to the floor at a height of 6ft and release) you would not believe it but it worked 10% of the time. Some boards are built sketchy and it takes sketchy//wierd sttuff to make em work again. ---Finally a use for my electronics degree 🤣

@davidcane7211

11 ай бұрын

Did you just drop the boards on the floor or but then in a box first to prevent physical damage? I ask cos I have a mb which, like Jay's, is suddenly dead. I bought it used, it appeared to work but I was trial booting it with a Ryzen 3600 without realising it had an old bios and only supported 2000 series. So I popped out the cpu and tried to get a post, just a cpu bios error or something. Nope, totally dead and never shown any sign of coming back to life. I've tried 2 cpus and 3 psus, no difference. It's now either I drop it from 6ft and hope, or sell for spares on ebay 😂

@vincemartincich

11 ай бұрын

@@davidcane7211 They were receivers for satellite dishes, and to be clear I am not a proponent of doing the electronics test, what we hypothesized was that the boards we were working on had grown tin whiskers and the drop cured that... so if this is a newer item i would stick closer to testing for power in the unit and finding the bad power delivery(mosfet) or power cleaning (choke) that is bad. but the drop is fun, but mostly we did it cuz we decided they were junk already.

In automotive world, when there is unexplainable electrical issues that you feel you need and exorcist, it tends to be a grounding issue. I don't know computers but I would isolate what parts of the board are connected to the PSU and inspect them one by one with a schematic, working yourself down the line. What ever it is it would have to do with something that has the ability to disconnect or reconnect power. It's almost like something is loose enough to not allow power through but also get back into position and work fine as a result of movement of temperature just my two cents 😊

thankyou jay Awesome video

There are different ways for component dieing. It can short to ground, heat up through power cycles and cut it self like fuse causing the short to disapear and mainboard to work again but section of mainboard that component was in wont function again or functions out of spec, example internal USB, SATA port etc.. depends on design of the pcb.

@paulc0102

11 ай бұрын

Agreed, although everything might work fine if it was just a bypass capacitor or two....

@MiriadCalibrumAstar

11 ай бұрын

this /\ Power supply was flickering cause something was shorted, by holding the power on for a time fried the resistor/capacitor that was causing the problem, he had good luck that it wasn't a important part of the pcb.

@rangerst_870

11 ай бұрын

@@MiriadCalibrumAstar NOT THIS. holding the button does not FORCE the power supply to ignore its safeties. Niether will the motherboard. All it was was the capacitors charging up. Some supplies react fast, some react slow but still fast to prevent a fire. but I would bet money that the ENTIRE BOARD works just fine and without any problems.

@TechyBen

11 ай бұрын

I've messed around with old hardware for fun. Then dropped a screwdriver when trying to boot it up. Burnt clear through the usb lines, but still booted up. No mouse though. XD

@MiriadCalibrumAstar

11 ай бұрын

@@rangerst_870 IT will not ignore the established safeties, but the tries of booting up and then "alert there's a short, turn OFF!" can still fry a component no matter the component, why? cause youre forcing current through it; Also for the constant turn off and on of the pc/psu, i dont have a actual fact or pov toward this but, my pc when the lights go out and comes back it turns on again(if it was on before lights out). It will not work entirely if theres a capacitor or resistor or even a chip burned, that btw even a non visual damaged component can be fried(internally), you can check the veracity of this on channels of tech repair.

I'm so so damn careful with my hardware, I practically treat my boards and cards and chips with the utmost delicacy and causion.. but I saw that pc that was sent to that customer that looked like it was almost completely destroyed but all that was dead was the SSD and the case.. I'm truely astonished how much of a beating and in this case an apparent short a Mobo can take and still work

Jay, I am an electrical engineer and have done CCA design for 4ish years so I am no expert but a thought of something that could have happened is when the bracket fell it may have damaged a cap either by physically hitting it or causing too much voltage to be shorted over onto a low voltage cap. When a cap is damaged it typically creates a short thus the over current stuff begins to react to protect from further damage. When you were able to get it to turn on likely by one of the theories you mentioned and the power supply started clicking the current pulses may have created enough heat to open the short caused by the damaged cap. I would have guessed you’d smell something but not always. Circuits may work with a missing cap but it may cause stability issues so I’d be interested in stress testing the board.

Motherboards are so sensitive these days with more and more technology added and i wonder if it was a static short with the backplate on the back of the motherboard. This would in turn trip the component that tells the motherboard what series of steps to do to turn on the PSU and your system on. After the week went by then trying to switch on a few times this must have reset the motherboard back into working state again to do the correct steps to boot. This is just what i think could have happened. Anyway i am glad the Motherboard worked for you in the end. Cheers for a great Video updating us all.

the negative is in the wrong place on the millimetre, it needs to be on the common. middle and left is to measure current

There is probably a cracked capacitor or a cracked inductor. Cracked capacitor would cause a short that you could potentially burn out if given power and a bit of time. A cracked inductor can cause a low voltage on the output of the voltage regulator circuit it is in and look like a short to the regulator and probably the PSU as well. I'm betting on a capacitor that was cracked. Could be a big SMD or small SMD component, but I would look for the component where heat is coming from while its boot looping. The finger touch hot thing method works even on failing electrolytic caps but if it is too intermittent you might need a thermal camera.

@kyoudaiken

11 ай бұрын

Had that happen to me on a laptop. The shorted ceramic capacitor burned itself open circuit and since then the laptop works just fine.

@thomasmroz

11 ай бұрын

Bingo..

You're experiencing 9 out of 10 times that some friend or family asks me for help with something electronic and when I'm there, it starts working magically. 😂😂

I'll add my two cents. It was a hair or cat fur or something else fine and hard to see like that. That's my guess. I've been a general I.T. break fix contractor for 20 years now and I've see this exact thing a few times on different types of boards, including an MSI motherboard not long ago. When you messed around with it and applied voltage you heated the hair that was causing a short somewhere in the system maybe even tripping the protection. The sudden voltage after that caused the bios to do wacky things and it took a few reboots, power cycles to get everything to a neutral state so you could actually boot. That also explains why the problem was subject to gravity as you flipped the board. I fix so "broken" boards by blowing on them and beating them to bend to my will that its kind of a regular thing. You just got to get a feel for it over a long time before you can determine when to use the "special" technique :P

My hypothesis is this. There is a short, somewhere, that initially caused a break in a capacitor, or something. With all of the times it was then turned on/off one of the capacitor drains was high enough voltage where it crossed the gap and brought the two ends closer (which caused the OCP to trigger). Then while it was getting really hot due to the shorting, some solder melted and then fully completed the circuit, which then cooled down and allowed normal operation.

@justinalvarado7351

11 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same, just really trying to conceive how that would happen?

@nednetherlander539

11 ай бұрын

Just like the power grid when a limb hits the line and shorts, Breaker trip and the reset's a couple of time to se if the short clears. sometimes the limb while burn of on reset and everything goes back to normal. This said he may have smeared the solder between two pins and the resting cause enough heat for the short to clear.

I can only conclude that the best way to troubleshoot these types of problems is to always let Phil touch it first.

the aftermarket contact frame can cause a "Dead" scenario. i had one that was over-tightened, and did the same thing yours was doing. loosened it a bit, and it came to life.

Capacitors don't so much "smooth" the power as much as filter it. They regulate output voltage and frequency based on their discharge rate vs charge rate. This is why with the right capacitors on the right lines you can use them to make a reasonable quality passive speaker crossover.

Also, it is entirely possible that it was a capacitor that was mischarged by an errant charge when it shorted, and when you flipped it and started probing, you may have bridged an escape for such errant charge.

I can testimony to your "just let them sit" repair. And agree with the theory.

Congrats on getting 1 billion views! (Accidentally noticed it while looking for a link to your social accounts, lol)

I've dealt with heavy industrial equipment that has logic controllers and certain circuits that are in an always off or always on state when they're energized. I've had instances where we had to completely kill all power to the machine in order for things to properly reset. After things like that that I've had to deal with, when it comes to a PC motherboard nothing surprises me

It is very possible by checking the EPS or the CPU power connector for issues you caused a short which fixed an underline issue caused by the back plate which caused the motherboard to reset back to its original state. When the PSU was freaking out I think the board was trying to do something which fixed the underlying issue.

About 15 years ago, I had a K6/2 system that after 3 months of attempting to repair it, I gave up. Fast forward to about a month ago. My daughter wants to build a retro gaming rig, so we drag it outta storage to strip parts. Just for giggles, I plug it up and BAM! It boots and works great.

When you were "probing" the back of the motherboard you had it in resistance measurement (ohm/omega symbol) which applies 9v to the probes. So you applied 9v directly to a couple pins somewhere in the EPS circuit while the PSU was on. That rogue power combined with the multimeter bridging or shorting those pins caused the power supply to have a seizure... Something about all of that mess caused the short circuit protection in the motherboard to reset.

Love these videos😭

Man, I so feel your pain here. I've been in plenty of "Wait, why is it working now?" moments over the years. I'm still not clear whats up with my current rig. A few months ago, had a momentary power surge, went to turn the PC back on.. Nothing. Flipped the surge protector power switch, then held the power button down until I was sure it was fully discharged. Then it worked. Another time it didn't work, tried it after a few minutes, booted up no problem. Seems like some sort of breaker resetting, but I've not found any evidence that the AsRock Z270 Pro4 had that kind of feature. Very puzzling. Back on your board though.. I have to wonder if its truly healthy, and whether or not gremlins might surface over time? It'd be interesting to see that board go into a build, and get a report on it from 6-12 months down the line.

3:25 So true, discharging the mobo caps by holding down the power button for 60 seconds can fix some really weird problems. Yes it really takes a long time to discharge, boards with always-on LED diagnostics lights demonstrate just how long it takes. Even with the PSU switched off those LED lights will stay on quite a while.

@Psychx_

11 ай бұрын

That's because the mainboard will also drain the PSU's output caps.

Power supply clicking because there is short-circuit on the load side, and you forcing the power supply to turn on by using that adapter. While power supply is cycling on and off, it might kill what ever shorting component on the board. Probably very tiny bypass capacitor. The best option is to find it and remove it from the board. You might not see any burn mark, but maybe there is crack on the capacitor. If you not remove it right now, who know next time you try to use it on a next build, it might get shorted again, because of flexing and moving the board around.

When you "shorted it out" there is a moderate probability that solder on one of the traces melted and the trace opened (almost microscopely) then was healed by all the manipulation of the motherboard with power applied. Another, similar, issue is that one of the hundreds of solder connections was "cold" to start with and was repaired with the on/off power applications due to current flow through the cold connection. These types of issues can often be seen through flexure (bending) of the board with power applied. Often these types of issues can be visible through a microscope or such.

You guys are soooo good at these videos, entertaining and informative, even though we didn't get an answer! 🤣🤣

Jayz makes a BOOM BOOM and ends up making a Video on it... haha brilliant and resourceful as always

@2:15 12VDC, 5VDC & 3.3 VDC! To my knowledge, this has been constant for a few decades. BTW best quote I've heard in a bit..."I turned it upside down, started poking stuff randomly". @10:23 Anyway the lesson we learned is PERSISTENCE! Good enough!

Simple answer, Phil is magic. Don’t question it

Jay, I had a B450 Motar Max with 5700G and 32Gs of ram. Board was able to post after I built the rig and kept it in storage, while I waited for my monitor and other accessories to arrive. Took it out of storage 2 weeks later and it will not post. Ran troubleshooting without my 1070 GPU, tested using another AMD CPU, ram and PSU and even did a bios reset by pulling out the 2032 battery, to no avail. Gave the casing a swift kick and suddenly the MSI bios appeared on screen and has been working well, so far.... Till I updated the Bios one day to the latest version and it bought the farm (Red troubleshooting LED stuck AT CPU)... Ended up selling it for scrap and transferred the other components to a Gigabyte B550M-K.

I like to think of Capacitors like a Water Tower. The pump can be as unsteady as it wants to be, but the smooth pressure you see at the faucet comes from the height of the tower. And when shut off the pump, you still have pressure until the Tower fully drains.

You could still have a damaged 12v power reg At idle it will run fine, but under CPU load may shut off again. Pull the heatsinks, get the part numbers, order from DigiKey, and just replace them all-at-once. I've done it on a few, and no problems afterwards. Clean off any flux when you're finished. Use fresh paste on heatsinks.

Really good vlog with the voltage meter, interseting, but I'm surprised you didn't check/bench test the board in the first instance when it happened, maybe a fail safe or breaker feature that wasn't apparent or known about.. but you seem to dismiss/retire it very early which im surprised about, also not checking what the back plate had touched and investigating there first!! glad its sorted now

NGL I had to come back to rewatch this purely because seeing Jay so completely and utterly flabbergasted is just too good of content 🤣

best video yet J at his best

My assumption is that the plate shortcutting different components caused two things. First it triggered some SPC component, then it triggered some OCP to disconnect and discharge everything. But doing that the SPC component could be still full of energy. After some time (cca week as Jay said) some SCP component was dried already allowing to boot again. And there comes the OCP again (or vice versa) that the board basically needed power again to connect, charge and discharge multiple components to get into MB "default" state. And I think that Jay was able to do that with repeated tries to power it with button. After all done the board powered normally.

I love such videos, was there also🤣👍👏 so honest to show you guys are not supernatural IT technicians who never fail 😆

I have just bought mine back to life following the multimeter prodding technique 😂😂 I thought I did the same as you and my mobo was toast, I'm of the mindset that you leave electronics long enough sometimes they sort things out don't ask why but it's worked in the past. I just prodded the MM around what I believe is a mosfet and saw the mobo light turning on until I let go.

"You'll never guess how!" Neither will Jay? 🤣🤣 That was great

You were probing the motherboard in resistance mode and applied power. You probably burnt whatever was shorting even more to open and the board could sorta kinda boot. This motherboard is still damaged and you will see it die soon again (very likely the EC/southbridge/power regulator).

LOL Jay is the motherboard whisperer and doesn't even know it. Loved the video and happy you got it back up and working.

This brought back memories of my first build. I had everything in properly, double and triple-checked everything and it still wouldn't post. I changed my ram, no post. Changed my gpu, no post. Reseated cpu, no post. Took everything out and rebuilt it, posted. This was after like 6-8 months of me racking my brain thinking of every possible factor. I'm just glad that a year and a half later, it's still going strong.

Jay, you might not have got the video you wanted, but we got the video we needed :D That was VERY entertaining.

Phil's maniacal laughter really made this video lmao!

I have similar issue with an acer laptop. The power had to be pressed for two seconds before it turns on. My deduction was the power button tactile function was faulty and had to have more time connected. So, your cable for the button may also be the issue. Try to short the power pin with screw drivers to make sure if it was the cable or not.

Possible heat sensitive component? We used to take a heat gun or hair dryer and hit spots on the mobo to see if heating components up would cause a failure. You might consider trying that.

you have a cold solder point on the board, be it along one of the power rails, or cpu pins, i have had this happen a few times, but not recently, the quality in manufacturing has gotten a lot better since core 2 duo days.

@shankararhuddlan270

11 ай бұрын

i would do an oven bake, reflow everything, then try again and see if it performs more stable

It may very well have been that the CMOS needed cleared. I had an MSI board recently that had some issues with RAM xmp. Where it would act the same as you're dealing with. Resetting the CMOS was the only way to get it to function in any way.

Something similar happen to a MSI B550 and 5600x build I did about a year ago. It fought me the whole way to bios and windows install, random shut downs, restarts...etc. Although, I never dropped any brackets or shorted anything. Finally it booted, installed windows and it still works. My log in is "Might Be Broken". Who knows how long it'll stay alive. PC troubleshooting life...

Totally guessing here, but I have seen a situation where the arc from a short circuit creates a small carbon soot bridge between two closely spaced contacts. It's not a dead short anymore, but the bridge is causing some current to pass between the pins (acts like a resistor). That may have prevented the board from working initially. That part in the video where the over voltage protection of the PSU kicked in several times MAY have been the bridge burning away and then the board worked once the bridge was open. I would spray the whole suspected short area with a contact cleaner like CRC, which leaves no residue, to clean off any remaining soot. Another possibility is that there may be a solder trace that burned and melted a bit (maybe in a layer inside the PCB and not visible) that is open with a hairline crack, but barely making contact and Jay banging the board around may have flexed the PCB enough to temporarily make contact again. If this is the case, that board will not be reliable and will intermittently fail on you. Only time will tell. I wouldn't trust it until it's well, burned in. My 2 cents.

Power cycling the capacitors allows the polarization to establish a directionality of the flow of energy. Happened with old Harleys too.

I think you were onto something with the overcurrent protection. That when you shorted something out an OC circuit latched on the board. By you probing the EPS you actually put a load on the sensing circuit that let the OC know the error was corrected. The thing is that OC protection circuit could still be degraded which is why it latched. So that board is likely only good for videos and not actual deployment.

Phil recreating cliffhanger is priceless. Very comical and repeatable. Love it How about the next series is Three idiots do something

"I didn't even get to poke anything cool." That needs to be on a tshirt.

I had something similar when I tried liquid silver thermal paste and it spilled onto the mobo when I put the AIO CPU heatsink on. Took me ages to find the little silver drops on the mobo to clean it off.

My best guess is a short, and it could be metal shavings or something that was stuck to a screw-driver and fell off when mounting the mobo in the case. You handeling the motherboard could be enough to cause it to move around and not short any more, but then as you suspect some capacitors would probably need draining before it would work again. Take the motherboard and shake it vigorously over a big sheet of paper or run a strong magnet over it to see if it picks up anything.

It's a weird electricians trick Jay I've done it on the job sometimes you can jump pins and cause a capacitor or resistor to work properly through a multimeter.