There it is finally! Thanks for this great review

Thanks for another thorough review Ben, been waiting for this one for awhile. I think I'd also prefer an extra row of standard keys, instead of the inner part of the thumb cluster.

Great review overall. Couple of things, you don't always have to make a super key for dual use keys. They actually have a separate dual key feature that let's you have a different hold and tap key without having to make a super key. However, this doesn't have the nice feature of QMK where you can tap then hold and get a repeat of the tap key. As someone who has my left thumb generally set to backspace/ctrl it sucks to not have a way to hold backspace and have it repeat. Hoping they will add that feature in a future release of Bazecore and/or firmware. Also, it is much harder to do alternate keycaps for the Defy because they went with Cherry profile keycaps. I really like the Cherry profile, but it does mean you are limited in your ability to switch the keycaps up and down rows because their profile changes. This is part of the reason ZSA uses the same profile across their keys, so you can freely move them around. However, I really really like the Cherry profile keycaps that the Defy went with. So I think I prefer having Cherry profile over being able to rearrange my keys. Especially, since my Colemak and Dvorak layouts are slightly modified from standard so a Cherry profiled keycap set of either of those still wouldn't work for me.

Thank you! I've been waiting for that review. To be honest it was the reason why I subscribed to your channel :D I am still trying to decide between the Voyager, Moonlander and the Glove80 but I was dying to see a real Defy review not coming from their YT channel before I decide! Thanks a lot!

@routchenko

5 ай бұрын

I have the moonlander and just got the Defy, I'm going to sell the Defy and with the money buy the Voyager. I need more portability and also already modified the moonlader to have the same keys as the voyager, to set the same layouts on both.

Finally! A proper review of the defy! 🎉 Thank you for this.

@bboytony209

5 ай бұрын

What is your thoughts of the Defy vs the Voyager? Trying to decide if I want to wait till april for the defy vs waiting 2 weeks for the voyager. I really love how the voyager looks and how compact it is. But im worried that the lack of keys will be an issue since right now i use the Advantage 360. Thanks in advance.

my 1st split keyboard

No idea what happened with your previous upload! Fantastic review as always. I’ve personally bought the zsa voyayer over this mostly due to price. The extra features of the defy are not important to me.

Great review! I’ve bought the Defy a couple of months ago, and I wouldn’t exchange it for anything else now. It’s interesting that your thumb sits so far from your hand - could it be because you’ve been using other keyboards where the thumb cluster is away from the hands (typically the Moonlander and to some extent the Glove as well)? Seeing them on the video, it seems to me that I would really need to stretch for them to sit on the most outward keys as yours. For me, my thumbs just sat on those middle keys the very first time I set my hands on it, I find it is the best resting position for them. By the way, I have sturdy hands pretty much like yours, slightly smaller, though, and I’ve been an amateur pianist for most of my life so my thumbs are used to go fetch something under the palm. That said, the most inner thumb keys are definitely not for heavy use, but they are still a great help (switching to some more occasional layers, or even the “System” key, for instance), so I really don’t use them that often, but they are not wasted and the thumb is already quite busy as it is with all the other keys anyway. And guess what? You can also use the top thumb keys with the index and the middle finger! I typically do that as those keys are the '0' and '.' on my numpad layout. I personally find the thumb cluster a real marvel, I use every single key, and they feel very comfortable for every use, and I’ve never had any thumb cluster before. That said, it is indeed very personal. And no matter what, our physical features will always matter in the choice of peripherals. As for me, the Glove really looks very very appealing in terms of ergonomics, but the thumb cluster of the Defy makes the difference. Again, personal preference. RF is a breeze, at least for me, I haven’t had any problem at all connecting. As you mentioned, they still have problems with battery reading which I find quite unreliable, but I’m confident they’ll fix it at some point, and frankly I just plug the keyboard every night and never had any battery-related issue. The same goes with battery usage, but they have already improved that quite a lot since the early days with firmware updates, and I’m pretty sure there is still room for improvement. Bluetooth seems to be quite… dodgy so far. Again, something that can be fixed by software. I haven’t even tried it at all. RF is just really a no-brainer for me. As for losing your mappings when flashing - you could always restore them in Bazecor, since it saves every change in json files that you can restore at any time, even after completely resetting the keyboard. As for the look of the keyboard, I’m older than you, and although I originally never cared much about the looks of my keyboards (for me, it’s the comfort and functionalities that matter, the rest is just superfluous), I do find it quite fun and dashing. Granted, the underglow might be a little overkill, but it’s still quite entertaining - and sometimes useful to show the layer you’re currently on. And I don’t find it’s using that much battery at all.

Thanks for removing the part about the tenting wobble. As all previous comments were deleted with the reupload, let me paste my comment again, if only for the extra engagement on this video ☺ The hyper home row mod is not available yet. Even a workaround with using a superkey is not possible. However, you could make a hyper layer and program a hold of the h key to switch to that layer. On the hyper layer you would program the regular keys on their regular locations, but each with the appropriate set of modifiers. For my medium sized hands the thumb cluster is perfect and my thumb rests right in the middle of the homing key. The three keys on the bottom rows are somewhat less convenient to reach, so I use those for medium frequency tasks, such as switching between virtual desktops and directly focusing specific programs.

0:48 The Raise v1.0 (original kickstarter edition) case has a handle but, since usually the Raise/Defy is carried together with a notebook in a backpack or in a case, that handle wasted a lot of space inside the backpack.

I had a lot of problems connecting the defy and making the first update, but to be fair they do mention how to correctly connect the neuron in their set up video haha

Hello Ben, I am a big fan of your reviews (Just ordered my Voyager because of you!) - And while watching your videos I couldn't help but fall in love with those backlit plates you have for display on your wall. Can you point me in a direction of where to purchase some for myself, or did you make them? Thankyou and keep making these awesome high production value videos the subscribers are sure to come :)

@benfrainuk

2 ай бұрын

Hi Ron, it’s just a couple of SKÅDIS Peg boards from IKEA ingka.page.link/8wDvbEhdEGbNwjXk9 with a strip of LED lights around like these amzn.to/3PJ1yxU 👍

Nice review! At 9:00 you are talking about responsivness between setting a key and the software automatically flashing the keyboard, have you never used VIA or vial ?

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Fair point! I’d forgotten about Vial! I think because I was thinking of split consumer boards using the default GUI app

My thumbs natural resting position is exactly where the nubs are, this makes it very easy to press all three inner buttons in the top thumb row but leaves the outer most buttons in an unusable spot. I can use the big buttons, they are just a small strech away. I can imagine the other small buttons to be usable for people with smaller hands so I guess it's good to have them, as everybody can simply use the buttons that match their hands. Maybe it's not even about hand-size but the prefered angle of your thumb. I wear XL gloves, so my hands aren't small, I could also without trouble press a second big button, but my thumb doesn't feel like resting anywhere near that big button. What I do not really understand is how one can really use the lower row of the thumb cluster. I can only reach them comfortably when i move my whole hand. Thats why I currently only assign them very special keys, like the Bluetooth-Connect-Menu or other keys, I do not use in regular typing scenarios…

9:44 for simple "»tap = one key« and »hold = a different one«", you can avoid creating a super key and configure and just configure a dual key: just set the key you want for tap, then on bottom of the bazecor screen there is the "Add Dual-Function" area.

@noisycarlos

5 ай бұрын

I was going to say. And this way, you can also use multiple modifiers

In case of the LiPo batteries dies out for good, will both halves work with USB cables to PC Or need one half connected to PC but other half always on BT?

I'm so glad I'm not the only one it took a small age to figure out the directionality of the neuron. I felt like I must be crazy, I'm a sysadmin and all, surely I couldn't be just being an idiot.

Hello Dygmate!!

Mine has been stuck for a week at cleared customs so I'm only going from the actual size printouts they have on reddit. As you described them, only the two outermost keys are a touch uncomfortable (Upper and Lower TC1, the long solid dash). My hands are smaller 19 and 12cm using same measurements and I've maybe developed more thumb dexterity from playing guitar and riding mountain bikes. The thumb cluster of the Defy was the deciding factor. I need a reminder now and then where some key's are, and I work in the dark, so I do like the RGBW lighting. I skipped under glow, layer changes show by color layout of the keys. I believe PBT keycaps are on the roadmap. They need to spend the money and time on custom molds. Thanks for all the review's Ben, they are helpful even if we come to different conclusions.

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Excellent. Thanks. Yes, sounds like it will be a great choice for your needs 👍

6:53 As a man in his 40's, I feel very called out 😆 I'm a massive gamer, so I need all that RGB for the FPS boost 🤪

Funny, the inner thumb keys that you can't use at all are some of my favorite thumb keys. And the outer thumb keys you rest on are much harder for me to use!

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Well that’s good news I guess and it really will be a great fit for plenty of people 👍

@GeckoEidechse

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk IIRC that was their intention with the thumb keys. They purposefully have more thumb keys than necessary so that everyone has 4-5 keys they can comfortably reach regardless of hand size and the rest being basically just bonus ^^

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

@@GeckoEidechseyes, I’ve seen the video where they talk about that. Remain unconvinced it was the right design choice though! ;)

Thank you so much for the review. I'm looking to purchase a Defy in the future, but I'm trying to find out more info on how it games. I'm already using a ZSA Voyager and I love this board, but I'm still working on figuring out how to game on it better. I'm wondering if the Defy would be a better option because the Voyager only has 2 thumb keys on both sides and they have different functions if you tap them or hold them down. I've been trying to make different profiles for gaming on the Voyager, and I guess have made some progress, but it's pretty annoying having to switch in and out of profiles just to play a few minutes of a game and also deal with the keys triggering different actions in the game like hitting the Windows key accidentally when I'm just trying to crouch lol. Would anybody happen to know if the Defy works better for gaming or if I just need a little more time with the Voyager to get the hang of it with gaming?

Regarding the thumb cluster, Dygma does say that they give you more keys so you can pick the ones you like. They know that you won't be able to use all of them, its there to accomodate different hand sizes.

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Yes, seen that. Just can’t imagine anyone’s hands will be able to make use of those outermost ones without being uncomfortable at best, and injured at worst

@dawids3022

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk I only use them for stuff that I don't need very often, like battery indicator or BT pairing button.

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

I've seen their explanation, but what doesn't make sense for a $600 keyboard is that they didn't supply additional keycaps with different shapes and switch plugs to remove unnecessary modifiers. Shipping an entirely new thumb cluster with no customizability would've been understandable for a $100 ergodox clone, but this is supposed to be a premium product

@Neha-wz2cp

4 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk I'm 5'2" adult with teeny tiny hands and I am able to use all the keys in the thumbcluster. They're not hard to reach at all nor do I have to move my fingers from the home row to be able to access the thumb cluster with my thumb.

@NJ-wb1cz

4 ай бұрын

@@Neha-wz2cp RSI is rarely about hand size. Someone with giant hands might easily have lower reachability than you do

I'm sure a lot of people have commented on the thumb cluster by now, but I just wanted to mention that I have quite small hands (unfortunately can't really measure right now) and on the defy, comfortably I can reach the 2nd and 3rd set of keys from the outside, and also with only a slight tuck (but not uncomfortable) reach the outermost key on the top row - I can't, however, comfortably stretch to reach the 2nd set of keys from the inside, and I can barely reach the innermost thumb key at all So I guess maybe the defy is an option that can cater to smaller hands much more than other options available out there (eg. with the voyager example you have there, and the moonlander, etc. it's quite difficult for me to reach the thumb keys without stretching), but everyone should really print out the PDF model they have available online to check the hand placement to see if it'll be comfortable

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Hi! That’s great, confirms my basic feeling about the Defy that it will be great for a whole swathe of people, just not me. I’m still a little wary of people using that tucked in motion with their thumbs for the outermost keys with any regularity but perhaps that will end up being an unfounded concern

Won’t be buying a defy however really enjoyed the vid. Laughed out loud more than I’d like to admit. Love your videos. I own a Glove and a voyager which your videos really did help with. Also your channel saved me money on the Kinesis (I got the glove instead). Fantastic content. Funny and useful.

@LLF1234

3 ай бұрын

Which one do you like more, the Voyager or Glove80 (and why)? I'm thinking on getting the Voyager, but I'm afraid I'll not get used to just 2 thumbkeys and home row shortcuts. On the other hand, the key well on the Glove80 might increase wrist extension upwards. That coupled with people mentioning that when playing games, it's difficult to use WASD as the A key is on a different level than the other keys.

I have question about the keycap of thumb clusters. I heard from some user on Dygma discord that their keycap of thumb clusters are broke or nearly break when they just type normally. Do you have any issue like that? What are your though on this matter? I wanted to get the defy but worry that if I use it for gaming then I will break...

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

If it does break, Dygma will just ship you a replacement. Isn’t an issue I have had.

@KyleFilms

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk Great to hear!

I’m not really getting your point about the thumb cluster. Just use what is comfortable for you. If it’s just the 2 most inner keys then use just them (the other keyboard you showed has just 2 thumb keys anyways). Someone else would use other keys from the thumb cluster that is comfortable for them. If anything that’s a more universal approach while still accommodating people with different sizes and shapes. For my thumbs the most comfortable one is the third thumb key and the one next to it to the outside. As a new user to multiple layers I love the ability to remind myself what sort of keys I have on a layer by assigning different colored backlights to them.

Got my Defy, tried it for a month, and ordered the Glove80. There is no bigger contrast possible between those two boards. The Defy is so well made, but somehow I keep thinking of the car Homer Simpson designed. It has everything you think of, and more. Like the thumb cluster. So many keys to choose from... Meanwhile the Glove feels like it will break by looking at it, and I still did not get bluetooth to perfectly work. For me, it was choc switches that won me over. For programming that 1mm saved really helps. But to be honest, the Defy is freaking hot-swappable. That alone makes it special. And it's definitely more ergonomic than the Moonlander.

Something wrong with the audio? Sounds like you forgot the microphone under your desk.

Regarding the thumbs, my thumb naturally rests on the opposite side of the homing key as you do. So those keys are handy for me. The only one I don't use regularly is the one at the bottom on the outter side (under the middle finger, if you will). But all the rest are no problem for me. If i remember correctly, their goal with the thumbcluster was for anyone with any hand size to reach 3 or four keys comfortably.

Just got my Defy today. I think the 3 corner thumbkeys on each side will be useful for something like media keys or certain macros. I wouldn't even use my thumbs for them I think, and instead just press them with my index finger

@wattswatts7605

5 ай бұрын

But overall I'm pretty satisfied so far. Bazecore is easy to use and the keyboard has great build quality.

Any updates on the Model 100 review?

@benfrainuk

4 ай бұрын

Will be March at the earliest I’m afraid but thanks for the interest. Short review: hardware great, love how it feels and sounds, software GUI very limiting so if you want to do HRM etc you need to drop into code. I’m also erring heavily away from boards that have a single key width for thumb work but that’s a very personal thing

I really like how you talk about your opinions and the importance of preference in keyboard choice I laugh at the “I’m not 10” jokes but I’ll be here representing those people in their 30s that still love some good rgb. I use it functionally to show me what layer I’m on and what keys are what but I’m also a sucker for the oooh pretty 😊. I still like oooh pretty in my 30s 🤩

Is it only the number row that have a different profile? It looks a bit like the home row is shorter, which would cause problems with alternate layouts. Is that why you didn't switch it to Colemak?

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

I mapped the layout to Colemak, but didn’t swap Keycaps just because I was lazy and I don’t look at the caps when typing anyway.

@max_pin

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk Good point. I got used to ignoring the keycaps on the 360 since it uses a bunch of profiles and I forget that the caps on my Glove 80 are actually correct.

@LizardTheWizard

5 ай бұрын

Each row has a slightly different shape (Cherry profile)

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@max_pinWhat do you mean by "...caps on my Glove 80 are actually corect."? What's wrong with the caps on the Defy?

@max_pin

4 ай бұрын

@@LLF1234 If you move them (for an alternate layout like Dvorak or Colemak), the profiles won't be correct because each row has a different shape. The Glove80 uses the same shape for all keys, so you can move them.

Would you maybe be open to adding chapter markers to videos like this? I think that that could really go a long way.

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Hi! There are chapter markers in there?? Are you not seeing them in the description? Just checked on google and they appear there also 🤷‍♂️

@handcoding

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk I think what’s throwing me off is that there are no chapter markers showing within the video timeline when you’re watching the video. And as far as I can tell, I think that that might be because you’re missing an entry for 0:00?

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

​​⁠Ah! Just added a start one - has that sorted it?

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk They are showing here now! Great job man!

I have found that the Defy slides around my desktop when tented, because the tenting legs have slippery silicone tips that don't provide enough friction against my desk. I didn't have this problem at all with the Raise's tenting kit. 😢

@callaxwithac1320

4 ай бұрын

omg, I hate that so, so much, specially those little tiny tenting stabilizers legs at the bottom. it makes no sense for those to be foldable, they should just be in that open fixed position. There's a lot of tiny little nagging things about it

@kentslocum

4 ай бұрын

@@callaxwithac1320 Yeah, every time I reposition the keyboard halves, those little stabilizers flip back up, and I have to pull them out again.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@kentslocum Hmm hot glue them in place? 🤔

@kentslocum

4 ай бұрын

@@LLF1234 A $400 computer peripheral shouldn't require hot-gluing to work properly.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

​@@kentslocum You've never seen guitar pedals then. I'ts not about working properly, is about locking on your config once you've find that one setting that you like

Can you tell me categorically which of them is the best?

@benfrainuk

4 ай бұрын

I can’t. Sorry!

I found super keys to be pretty bad. I like having home row mods, but it’s really buggy. Especially when using vim. Tapping and holding hjkl doesn’t work as well at it does in qmk. For example in qmk if I hold f, it’s very quick to register it as a modifier. Then if I tap and hold any of the home Row keys, I can move the cursor around without issue. But super keys are super laggy.. I decided to remove them from the right side :/ I wish I could just use qmk honestly.

@senritsujumpsuit6021

5 ай бұрын

The studio is contently tweaking so its likely temporary

@musicman24X

5 ай бұрын

You can adjust the interval

@johncoakley

5 ай бұрын

No you can’t.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@johncoakley Are you sure? That's definitely a dealbreaker! I find it odd as it's one of the simplest things to adjust. Have you tried contacting Dygma and ask about this feature?

I use the underglow only around the thumb cluster. It's very useful because I use a few alpha keys hold to switch layer. And so if I accidentally switch to a layer whikst typing. Then i becomes very clear I made or was about to make a mistake. Also very useful when beginning and learning the new keyboard if you went to the right layer, and also which layer you are on. Also I like how easy it is to change it into what you like, and to experiment. Although I would like it if there were more than 10 layers max. Even though I probably wouldn't use all of them. Then you know I could exeriment more and use more layer for skipping to have to reach and have maybe special cases button more on the alpha row. Or you could buy 2 neaurons. 1 for gaming and that sort of activity (could be useful if you play lots of different type of games. (Some use a lot of buttons like MSFS 2020 and games like squad and ARMA) And then 1 for typing and productivity and most used softwares) But it's a great keyboard. 2 features if you are on a budget is to skip the underglow and wireless. I personally don't use wireless that often.(but if you are on the move a lot and need a keyboard then I would say it's a must) But the tenting kit is a must in my opinion. So nice to have it. I do also recommend that you experiment with using a different layout like colemak mod DH. Since it's already gonna be a learning curve. Uou might aswell stack it if you were thinking about it

@GM-qi8pw

5 ай бұрын

Went further in the video His measurement. 20cm long 15.5cm wide Mine 19.5cm long 12.5cm wide And for me the thumb cluster keys fit me really well. I had a glove 80 and for me the thumb keys were not for me personally.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

Probably a stupid question, but... can you use the wireless version of the Defy plugged into the USB, or only wireless? Also, how does the RF work, is it a USB dongle like most Logitech gadgets?

@GM-qi8pw

4 ай бұрын

@@LLF1234 yeah sure. Basically the neuron is the brain in the operation and the defy itself works like tool for the neuron. If you keep the neuron but switch the defy. You'd still have the same profile set up. And you can buy and extra neuron and two types of profile for the defy. (For example, maybe 1 for gaming and the other for office work) (Currently you only have 10 layers per neuron) there are a few modes in which you can use it. 1) Wired mode Both halves connected to the neuron and the neuron is connected to the PC In this mode you get the least latency and can charge the defy. You can also use bluetooth in this mode. Underneath the defy the "wireless mode" must be turned off. 2) RF mode The neuron is connected to PC Underneath the defy the "wireless mode" must be on. And bam. You are connected to the computer via RF 3) bluetooth mode The neuron is connected Underneath the right halve of the defy "Wireless mode" is on. 4) I've tried this and it works Left halve is connected to the neuron which is connected to PC. But the right halve is not connected to the neuron and is set on "wireless mode" and it works. I don't know if it works the other way around. Personally I have it mostly in wired mode, because I don't travel with is alot. But the bluetooth would be useful if you travel with it. But you can still use bluetooth even if you are wired. (For example wired to PC, but you can switch it to your phone or another laptop of a tablet) Up to 5 devices can be paired to it at the same time.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@GM-qi8pw Thank you! That's a lot of options indeed, I believe they cover all use cases. I would probably use wireless with RF during the day and would recharge it during the night... One thing I wish it was possible was to have interchangeable batteries. My current MS keyboard uses 2 AAA batteries and they last for 6 months, and it's wireless. It is very, very convenient! But I would be okay to replace batteries every week (have a pair and recharge them weekly). Anyway, it's a great keyboard no matter what! Thank you for your reply!

@GM-qi8pw

4 ай бұрын

@@LLF1234 if you forgo the use of RGB then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how long the battery will last without charge. The Dygma team has at least marketed that it should last a few months. I personally haven't tested this and there was some software problem to begin with (during the lunch of the Defy) that made the battery drain fairly fast, but I think they have fixed it by now.

Can someone explain which is better between the Defy and the Glove80? I am not worried about the price of the Defy but I do only want to get one out of those two

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

Obviously Glove80 if you care for typing, Defy isn't even competing with it on anything apart form a similar price. Defy was supposed to be more like an alternative to Moonlander or Ergodox, which is why price matters

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

One thing to note though, Glove80 makes using mouse less comfortable simply because you have to put your hand on this tall thing each time. These are just different approaches

@IntrepidDivergence

5 ай бұрын

​@@NJ-wb1cz So youre saying the Defy has no advantages whatsoever?

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

@@NJ-wb1czI'm kinda confused as well. What do you mean "if you care for typing"? Why is it inferior to Glove80? Is it just because of the key wells?

@NJ-wb1cz

4 ай бұрын

@@LLF1234 on ergo keyboards your wrists can remain more or less static which makes them ergo. You aren't doing the constant movements you have to do on a regular keyboard. But for that to fully work all keys should be as reachable as possible without moving your wrist. Which can be achieved with key wells or a minimum amount of keys. And low travel switches may help as well

Oh man... two lines about Las Vegas lights and Rubik's Cube thumb cluster are all it takes to review this keyboard. I almost bought it myself, but somehow didn't feel right... way too many keys for a single poor finger (the thumb in this case). Even if you actually can hit all of them without issues, it is simply not a good option.

As I said on the previous video, I don't get why did they not include the bottom row from ergodox and moonlander. It's a giant super expensive keyboard and they could've included switch plugs for those who don't need those keys. Could've included additional keycaps for different hands and typing styles for the thumb cluster. Could've even had alternative thumb key switch placement like ergodox has to replace 2 buttons on two rows with one vertical button. I just don't get Dygma, they are selling a premium product and I like semi-full size split keyboards like ergodox, and was excited about it but I don't see what is even the point outside the sleek package

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

I wish keychron or nuphy would get into split ortho keyboards, but I guess the market is too small for them or something

Hey, question. Web developer here, work in Linux/macos and code in neovim. I love qmk firmware.. I know there cannot be a straightforward answer to this.. But would you suggest the voyager over the defy. I’m having a hard time making this decision.. I currently have the defy, but like you, I am a little annoyed by the thumb keys. Furthermore, the Software/firmware is just not there for me. I also wouldn’t consider this thing to be portable..

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

If you can, I would try the Voyager and see which you prefer, then sell the one you don’t want. You will take some hit financially but not a lot. That’s what I do after considering the amount of man hours I’ve spent trying to decide what to do in the first place! 🤣

@johncoakley

5 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk I think this is exactly what I’ll do. Thanks.

5:55 Fuck I was wondering if this was just me Couldn’t believe it’s such a pain in the ass

I just got it after christmas, I have the black, dash keycaps, Khali speed silver switches with the tenting kit. I couldn't wait and bought the moonlander and I don't need it. Is someone interested in buying it?? I opened the box but never even connected it.

@LLF1234

4 ай бұрын

It's a nice opportunity to make a video review comparing both, and get some of that money (if not all) back!

One BIG problem is that it's got sculptured keycaps, so you can't switch them around if you type in Dvorak, Workman, Colemak-DH, Colemak, etc. What is the point of a programmable keyboard if you can't configure the keys the way you want them? And who would buy a $330+ keyboard with shine-through keycaps and all sorts of lights only to have to stare at the wrong legends on the keys forevermore? The defy is a very nice idea, but it's not adaptable for my use. The Kinesis Edge RGB is not as good a design, but at least it's got uniform keycaps so you can switch the keycaps around to other layouts.

they clearly went though the effort to have custom molds for their own keycaps, yet made laser etched ABS. at the price point I'd expect double shot (clear and base colour) shine through keycaps. Massive L.

@senritsujumpsuit6021

5 ай бұрын

your ignoring everything else they made from scratch for this board that no other boards really have fuk getting built in ABS when you can do everything else

@taylormanning2709

5 ай бұрын

@@senritsujumpsuit6021 while I hear your point, the criticism is very valid. These caps won’t last forever, and the custom profile (especially on thumb cluster) means matching replacements will be hard to find. Just because a comment doesn’t give a compliment sandwich, doesn’t mean the criticism is not well thought out. That said, I’ll clarify that I love most features of this board, especially the unique/custom aspects of it. I’m not purchasing it, but it isn’t the keycaps that were the deal breaker. Happy clacking, y’all

@theSOUNDinterpreter

4 ай бұрын

Have you ever worn out key caps?

@taylormanning2709

4 ай бұрын

@@theSOUNDinterpreter yes. 3 sets.

@theSOUNDinterpreter

4 ай бұрын

Then you know this isn’t for you

Dygma Balls

Wow, ABS keycaps for that price tag? Pass 3:03

Was super stoked for this, finally a FLAT split keyboard, only for the company to apically fail by deciding for some moronic reason not to put the F row on it...

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

Have you actually used a flat split keyboard with an F row? There's a reason why they aren't popular, hand movement is different from a single board. I noticed I formed all sorts of weird automatic movements to hit f keys consistently on a single board, but on a flat split keyboard they just won't work. And if I'm re-learning anyway, might as well learn a layer approach and get all F keys along with modifiers on a single hand, making something like Ctrl+F12 easily pressable with the left hand

@beanwithbacon

5 ай бұрын

@@NJ-wb1cz Yes, I have and it wasn't an issue, I have VERY large hands, it's never a stretch for me to hit the 5th row. Lack of an F row effects workflow far too much.

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

@@beanwithbacon oh, yeah, mass produced split keyboards are already expensive even when they target more or less average users because there's just not enough demand. If you want a more niche product you'd have to be lucky for someone making it accidentally or you'd have to use a custom design. There are PCB designs for all sorts of boards, and lots of companies to to print them for you, if you don't mind spending a day or two ordering everything and soldering

deleted the first round of commentaries by a reupload ..

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

Sorry, no way to keep the comments and replace the video - not possible in KZread currently. Believe me, I really would have liked to keep them (and the traffic) too!

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

​@@benfrainukwhy was it re-uploaded?...

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

@@NJ-wb1cz there was an incorrect reference to a problem with tenting

The lighting feels like what you would see on a redragon keyboard, mediocre and gaudy. I'm sure if you just turn it off then it's fine though, but such a cheap look for such an expensive keyboard is crazy. Otherwise it seems like a decent ergo keyboard, but absolutely not for $600. This is probably closer to a $200-$300 keyboard to me at the absolute most

First impression: looks cheap, like Chinese knockoff cheap, and it looks very unprofessional. Makes me sad. I wanted to buy one, but not at that eye-watering price.

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

There's another review on youtube of a white version, and there the paint actually comes off. Dygma used to have somewhat flawed but solid products and great software years ago with their moonlander and ergodox ez, but for some reason they struggle to put out anything decent as the split keyboard community grows and matures, with really weird product decisions. Like Voyager having only 2 thumb buttons - whyyyy?... Why did they have to dump orux to replace it with this mess?... Why make a replacement to Moonlander and remove a bunch of keys that didn't even make it any smaller? Okay, I think I'm ranting too much :l

@__mader__

5 ай бұрын

why unprofessional? the Defy in the video was setup to circle colors, normally you use colors to remind you in what layer you are (underglow LEDs) and what's the function of each key in the layer (key LED). The shape of the keyboard is so to be as small as possible without sacrifying ergonomicity. you can also write a simple program to turn underglow LEDs on or off to warn you when a certain event does (not) occur.

@PaulSebastianM

5 ай бұрын

@@NJ-wb1cz no, you're spot on.

@NJ-wb1cz

5 ай бұрын

@@PaulSebastianM oh, wait, I've been mixing up ZSA and Dygma this whole time lol. For some reason I started thinking they are the same company 😂

@senritsujumpsuit6021

5 ай бұрын

so the looks make it worthless also its expensive since they made everything for it themselves this is not razor shitting out 5 keyboard a week