I have been a shareholder in an upper Midwest (US) electric utility for over 50 years. I speak with the CEO on a regular basis. This topic has been part of our discussions for the last two years. The companion to this are the sensors which can be placed on the cable that relay temperature information back to the utility. These two technologies can increase the ampacity on the line 30 to 50%.

@freeheeler09

Ай бұрын

Excellent, thanks! I would also like to see more distributed solar and batteries, and more incentives for home and business owners to install them. Also, the weak link for that essential distributed electricity generation is excessively high battery prices. A $1,300 Powerwall néeds to store 40 kWh of electricity, not its currently pathetic 13.Here in California, I generate more than enough electricity to power a home and EV. But, I need a small, affordable, EV work pickup, not the $100,000 monster trucks currently available. And, I need40 kWh of electricity storage to go off grid.

@davidmenasco5743

Ай бұрын

​@@freeheeler09I haven't dug into this, but I'm hearing that some good deals are available on the F-150 Lightning. It's energy storage features are pretty impressive.

@katjordan3733

Ай бұрын

@@freeheeler09 agreed! However, what if the EV car WAS the main battery, while the powerwall was the backup for while the EV car was in use?

@protectiongeek

Ай бұрын

Sounds great. I have seen an article about these sensor balls. Thing is, how does a dynamic current-carrying capacity on the line fit with the rated capacities of switchgear and transformers?

@jamesphillips2285

Ай бұрын

@@freeheeler09 You may want to look into Edison Motors. They are planning to sell conversion kits for old pickup trucks, starting with 1 ton axles for economies of scale.

Wonderful video and message. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm one of the founders of CTC and co-inventor of the ACCC Conductor. Quite a challenge convincing utilities to embrace modern technology to solve modern challenges. Fortunately we've supported 300 utilities in 66 countries supplying to 1,250+ projects. There is hope :)

I'm a utility regulator in Maryland, USA. You are 100% correct. Currently, it takes between 8 and 17 years to build a new transmission wire. Reconductoring and the reuse of existing rights of way is the strategy!

@jeffreyquinn3820

Ай бұрын

Does upgrading to cables that can carry more current require any adjustments to permits? I was under the impression that (at least in parts of Canada) permits specify a maximum allowed wattage. I could very well be wrong on this, however.

@MajLeader

Ай бұрын

Increasing capacity only requires a fairly routine permitting adjustment.

@laughinggas5281

Ай бұрын

Are all new us-based transmission lines built this way? If not why not

@MajLeader

Ай бұрын

Right now the United States is transitioning to the latest transmission technology. The inflation reduction act has a lot of money in it for that kind of changeover.

@msimon6808

Ай бұрын

@@MajLeader Which is getting pocketed by the usual suspects. $7.5 bn for charging stations. zero built.

From what I understand, a big holdup with this has to do with the perverse incentives of investor-owned utilities: building new stuff counts as _adding assets_ while, as noted, upgrading the wires on existing stuff counts as _maintenance_ - that is, _cost_ - so the former looks better on their balance books than the latter, despite the latter being a far more efficient way to increase capacity.

@incognitotorpedo42

Ай бұрын

Utilities are regulated monopolies, and one of the regulations is that they get a guaranteed return on investment. The more they spend, the more they make. Thus they are incentivized to waste money. I don't know if the rule cares if the spending is capital assets or maintenance, but it's a rule that needs to be fixed.

@5353Jumper

Ай бұрын

Privatized power grids are stupid.

@jeffreyquinn3820

Ай бұрын

Good point. Maintenance can add value to the balance sheet if there is a significant increase in utility. Part of the cost is expensed, and part is capitalized. However, there may be tax benefits to expensing as maintenance as compared to capitalizing. What I don't know is if changing the classification from maintenance to upgrade will require a change in permitting requirements. Permits may allow for a maximum amount of wattage. All this information should appear in the notes to the financial statements. Not that many people actually read the notes.

@Indra-Ant

Ай бұрын

@dwc1964 Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering: are the grids replacing old cables with these new ones, and if not, why? Presumably when cables near end of life they get replaced with whatever is the newest tech (assuming they don't have a warehouse full of the old stuff). But replacing cables that are still "good"? Sigh. It's good to know the tech will make it's way out there eventually.

@BartdeBoisblanc

Ай бұрын

@@Indra-Ant Ha it seems some utilities don't replace their cables until they sag and catch the landscape on fire.

Dave, you're one of the best. Your regular updating of the energy/renewable landscape is appreciated and valuable.

@msimon6808

Ай бұрын

I'm not impressed with anyone who believes GHG Theory. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas equal to CO2 according to theory. There is on average 50 times as much in the atmosphere as CO2. There are still no proposals for draining the oceans. Water vapor is not persistent? According to the theory water vapor's lack of persistence in the atmosphere (rain) means WV only counts for heating, not for evaporating more water vapor. Which is absurd because heating causes evaporation. The theory is bunk.

@EdSurridge

Ай бұрын

Quite right. Well said ...

Some encouraging news for a change. Thanks as always Dave.

With an aging grid people are leaning towards roof top solar + batteries or generators to provide power while the grid is down. Every state has their own rules for selling power back to the grid. Some states are revoking net metering rules. We need to encourage rooftop solar to be paired with batteries so the utility could buy power from residential customers when the grid is over loaded.

@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475

Ай бұрын

That's a horrible idea; then you'll have reliable power that you're in charge of.

@katjordan3733

Ай бұрын

The power company pays a discounted wholesale, like 10% of retail price. I know people with rooftop solar who break even 3 months a year, and pay for power the other 9 months. Then there's the property tax increase by installing solar. Painful increases in taxes due to the state.

@danharold3087

Ай бұрын

@@katjordan3733 US home solar installations are about 3X time more expensive than AU. A trump holdover. Some of it has been backed off but the utility companies want to keep it.

@katjordan3733

Ай бұрын

@@danharold3087In our area, a company went door to door, offering to install 'free' solar. It has been a nightmare for some when their property taxes skyrocketed. So it's a concern for many that solar is a scam. One company ruined it for a lot of people.

@tedmack6516

Ай бұрын

Keep up the hopeful topics. Always innovation must be assessed in the real world.

When I gradated with a BSEE in 1978, it was common knowledge that the transmission system was the "redheaded step-child" of the "Grid". It hasn't changed.

@TS-kt3nf

Ай бұрын

Because they get so hot?

@tradingnichols2255

Ай бұрын

🤣@@TS-kt3nf

@Dominic_Bolton

Ай бұрын

@@TS-kt3nf I bet you were laughing at your own joke when you were typing that in! 😂

In The Netherlands, it’s not only about transmission lines but also about transformer capacity. 🌷🤷‍♀️

@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475

Ай бұрын

Yeah, the Decepticons are always causing trouble.

@JustNow42

Ай бұрын

Sure but getting an additional transformer does not seem so controversial

@mere_cat

Ай бұрын

Same issue in the US. And the current lead time on transformers is 2 years.

@Kevin_Street

Ай бұрын

@@mere_cat I wonder if the war in Ukraine is effecting that statistic. Not sure about the US, but in Europe they've already donated a lot of their spare transformers to keep the Ukrainian grid running.

@hebegebees2

Ай бұрын

@@Kevin_Street the war in Ukraine has had a massive effect on lead times but aid to Ukraine isn't the reason. Sanctions on Russian steel have massively reduced raw material supply to transformer manufacturers. Combing that with massively increased demand for new large Power Transformers (>300% in many countries) has pushed leads times out by 4x. Components which almost solely come from China have also added massive lead times, such as cooling fans. The end to the war/sanctions would have a large effect on leads times but the core issue is the massively increased demand for transformers due to connection of renewables and increased electrification of industry and transport

excellent video as always. one thing that occurs to me is that adding one or two mega packs(batteries) to substations would allow a much lower peak transmission to them.

@SocialDownclimber

Ай бұрын

That is exactly what NSW is doing with the Waratah Super Battery

@uiteoi

Ай бұрын

Yes, and the name for this is storage as a transmission asset, SATA.

really good material, I was not aware( and I am a retired electrical engineer)

I am someone with a pice of land that the transmission authority would like to traverse. The land is in Tasmania, around 70 acres mainly of cool temperate rainforest, and has been a conservation project for us for more than 40 years. Of course, we hope that they will not need to do this, but if they do it will be a fly-over between high points, and they claim our forest will be untouched. So listening to you speak about sag was very interesting. I intend to share this with TasNetworks and asking them to comment. Engaging with them has not been pleasant or fruitful to dat, but you never know. Thank you for your erudite piece - I've subscribed.

The most important property of the high temperature low sag (HTLS) conductors, such as the ACCC type, is that their cores have a much lower coefficient of thermal expansion compared to the conventional galvanized steel core of the normal ACSR conductor. This means, that those HTLS conductors feature a knee point in their thermal expansion (which is the result of heating proportional to roughly i^2 (i=current)). This means, that, above a certain temperature (knee point) (depending also on the stringing tension), the sag(Temp) curve becomes flatter, when the aluminum becomes completely slack (no tension) and all the tensile load is transfered to the core (which has a low coefficient of thermal expansion). This allows to transmit more power per sqcm with these conductors (allowing a higher temperature than 80°C) without running into a insulation coordination issue.

Brilliant as always thank you

I'm a transmission planner. Unfortunately, some of what you said is not true here in NY State. Article 7 makes projects even on existing ROW very slow and costly. Our environmental requirements also force us to use matting on most projects where soil will be disturbed, even just by heavy truck traffic, driving up our transmission line work by 40%. No, that is not an exaggeration. Most reconductoring (anywhere) requires all new towers as well, more than doubling the cost. Our average 115 kV line rebuild cost (existing ROW) is around $12M per mile and growing fast. It was half that less than a decade ago. Lastly, I'll mention that reconductoring a *typical* transmission line will get you 2-3x the capacity, and there are limits to what you can transfer at any voltage, regardless of conductor capacity. In cold climates where our biggest peak loading will soon be the backup (auxiliary) heat strips in ducted heat pump systems all kicking on when the heat drops below 10F (because most homeowners are buying the cheap ones that can't do -10 or -20F with the heat pump alone), we're going to need much more than 2-3x the capacity of our existing network, especially when also considering the coming EV loading. We're still grappling with how we're going to handle it. Finally, what good is added transmission capacity when we can't get the added baseload generation that we need? Here's hoping that small modular reactors become a reality and FAST.

@kennethferland5579

Ай бұрын

SMR is a boodoggle which you would know if you did any research.

@redshift3

Ай бұрын

All good points, except SMR

@twestgard2

Ай бұрын

Every new nuclear technology arrives with an announcement that “oh, but this time it’s safe! And the science says so!” And ten years later, a bunch of people have cancer, another area of the earth is uninhabitable for millennia, and we learn that the scientists were paid off.

@calamityjean1525

Ай бұрын

Why would reconductoring require new towers? The new conductors aren't any heavier than the old ones, are they?

@jaaklucas1329

25 күн бұрын

I agree on SMR. In Canada there are towns in the north running diesel generators 24/7 for power. SMR would be a game changer.

A beautifully presented and very encouraging summary. Incremental improvements like these are less dramatic than cutting edge inventions that you often cover, but absolutely essential.

3:34 Energy Central CTC Global webinar bullet points. Cable types: ACSR ACCR ACFR AECC 4:52 ACCC: lighter weight but increased strength, capacity, reduced resistance line loss, and less sag at higher temps.👍

In Québec, they've slowly been upgrading the network over the last 2 decades. More often than not, they tear down the entire line and start from scratch. What they've been doing is upgrading lines and substations from the old 200KV to 315 KV which is the more common voltage nowadays for the second layer of the transmission network. Most of the long range transmission is done using 735 KV lines. Increasing voltage reduces losses, but requires taller towers. Another big issue to consider is redundancy. In Québec, we learned that the hard way with the 1998 ice storm. One of the big changes has been to ensure that most substations can be powered by at least 2 separate circuits.

@jeffreyquinn3820

Ай бұрын

Québec has Hydro Québec, which is a 100% publicly-owned utility. (Contrast this with Ontario, which privatized parts of the system such as generation that earn money, but left parts such as transmission that cost money with taxpayers.) I understand some of the larger cities (Montreal, for example) have significant permitting challenges, but overall the permitting process is fairly streamlined compared to most of the rest of the continent.

@jonathanlanglois2742

Ай бұрын

@@jeffreyquinn3820 As far as permitting goes, there's nothing like a catastrophe to wake peoples up and get things moving. When an issue start to affect the comfort of peoples, things tend to move quickly. The 1998 ice storm played that role in Québec and it might very well be that the US needs its own wake up call to fix some of the issues it has.

@orbiradio2465

Ай бұрын

@@jeffreyquinn3820 Transmission is always a monopoly. So it is better own by the public. At power generation real competion is possible.

@jeffreyquinn3820

Ай бұрын

@@orbiradio2465 Power generation is either a monopoly or oligopoly. Oligopolies seldom work out better than a regulated or state-owned monopoly, and are by definition not very competitive. So my ECON 101 textbook says.

@waltermcphee3787

Ай бұрын

Also in the UK swapping the lines out has been going on for several years.

Re-conductoring is a no-brainer. What people don’t realize is the grid can handle more load. All conductors are sized for peak load which happens twice a day. How much power do you think is running through those lines at 2 AM? taking a first principle approach with energy storage means that localized batteries eliminate any grid upgrade requirement. Now of course you still need to plug in the windmills and solar panels into the grid but if you take a ridiculous example of scale and put a sea can of batteries in everybody’s backyard then we could probably power the world with extension cords! 😊 now adjust this scale to reality and we have decentralized energy storage and most importantly the elimination of curtailment which is the ultimate waste.

@brianjonker510

Ай бұрын

Slightly off topic but demand response will be more important in the next 20 years for the success of green energy than batteries will be. copy/paste from my stand alone comment

@GaryGraham-sx4pm

Ай бұрын

as you say, at 2am a mega-dollar grid is operating at a fraction of capacity. the entire investment is sized for peak demand yet most of the time less than half of peak is needed. an answer is in consumer peak leveling. which also offers consumers a choice of price for power. it works like this; every half hour the retail price of electricity changes, prices are digitally signaled in real time and forecast for 24 hours. so consumer devices can be tuned to low price points for heated water storage, battery charging, clothes drying and refrigeration etc (including cold storage to augment air conditioning at peak), leaving only essential and low-wattage, lighting etc devices when rates are high. a simple utility algorithm can easily set rates to deliver an almost flat grid demand over every 24 hours, thereby saving the difference between flat average and peak grid capacity investment.

@brianjonker510

Ай бұрын

@@GaryGraham-sx4pm It doesnt even need to be a flat demand. Just knock off 10% from peak to that midnight to 5AM period is all thats needed.

@kennethferland5579

Ай бұрын

Yep, we really want a system of storage buffers at the source and load, with the transmission system between running at close to full capacity at all times. The cost of the storage systems payed back in efficient utilization of the transmission system.

@jaaklucas1329

25 күн бұрын

Decentralized creation and energy storage the key here...

Another very informative and encouraging video. I had no idea that reconductoring was even a thing or that several new types of conductors had been developed. Good news indeed.

This could possibly be the most important yet also underrated segment you have created.

"... Jeremy and Colin in the Finance Department ..." Made me LOL - Thanks, Dave. great analysis as always.

Don't forget to say that the electricity demand in the UK has dropped by 20% over the last 10 years. Interesting to hear that the US has the same bureaucratic issues with grid connection that we have.

@adblocker276

Ай бұрын

Thanks to the EU energy efficiency regulations

@paul1979uk2000

Ай бұрын

@@adblocker276True, in EU countries, a lot of effort has gone into reducing energy use without lowering quality of living. Over the last two decades, we've managed to cut our electric use by about half what it was 20 years ago, even thought we have more tech devices and computers around the home, and there are still many improvements that can be done. It also looks like since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, there's another big push to reduce energy consumption whiles at the same time boost renewable energy generation, the two together makes it much easier to do the transition. But with all that said, there's likely going to be more demand on the electric grid because of EV cars and heat pump, which is pushing all our energy needs to electric, which is fine by me because it's a lot more flexible in how it can be used and we can also generate it with renewable energy. Thanks to EU regulations, it's putting constant pressure on all companies to find ways of reducing the energy a product needs.

@matthewbaynham6286

Ай бұрын

​@@adblocker276actually I'm guessing it's more related to economic decline. Power demand is linked to how many factories and businesses are running.

@UhOhUmm

Ай бұрын

UK doesn't manufacture anything anymore. And it drops more industries every year.

@xxwookey

Ай бұрын

Yep, computers, lighting, TVs and standby consumption all improved dramatically in consumption terms. And a lot of relatively high power gadgets like Hi-fi systems and VCRs and radio-alarm-clocks have just disappeared over the last 30 years and been replaced by much lower-power kit (e.g. mobile phone+bluetooth speaker). There are more other gadgets (routers, voice assisstants, smart doorbells/thermostats/hot water tanks) but most of those are low power. Ultimately it's the LEDs that are responsible for most of the reduction.

A great overview! I volunteer with Citizens' Climate Lobby and we've been helping push for more electricity transmission across US regions, with things like the BIG WIRES act. Boosting transmission capacity with reconductoring as well as building new lines sounds like a great idea.

This sounds great. However, here in Texas, ERCOT is garbage. They wouldn't even do this if it only cost them one more dollar. Not one dollar per mile, mind you, but one dollar.

@5353Jumper

Ай бұрын

Privatized power grids are stupid.

@shawnr771

Ай бұрын

I live in Texas The Texas New Mexico Power company just replaced miles of regular poles and lines in my area. In addition to burying a significant portion that crosses a flood plain. The last is a new state requirement.

@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475

Ай бұрын

Yep, they want grift not customer service. They won't even connect to the national grids for back-up power for their customers.

@inigoromon1937

Ай бұрын

GOP, pennypinching mentality.

@cht2162

Ай бұрын

As far as Texas is concerned, it is in a state all its own. We don't want anyone stealing our power.

Excellent. Line losses total 15% of the electricity put on the grid, the vast majority ofs which is due to heat during peak load. 7.5% on the transmission grid. 7.5% on the distribution grid. Local generation takes energy off the transmission grid and thus saves 7.5% loss +/=. Direct current transmission also saves loss. Underground transmission loss is less than that on above-ground wires plus underground wires are subjected no wind or other weather stresses resulting in lower maintenance costs. Underground is more costly than above-ground but the savings in maintenance makes up the difference. And direct current is more efficient than alternating current transmission. Consider this, all the costs are heading down from generation to transmission to distribution. Will that result in lower electricity costs to the consumer? Only if we fight to have the savings passed on to us!

@WJV9

Ай бұрын

High voltage DC is only cost effective for long transmission lines (over 300 miles) due to the high cost of 'converting AC to DC' at the generating end and 'inverting DC to AC' at the receiving end of the transmission line. That said it would save a worthwhile amount of energy along with 'rewiring' the grid with lighter weight, higher ampacity cables.

@Nidkidful

Ай бұрын

Underground transmission loss is typically higher than aboveground from my recollection, due to the high capacitive coupling of the ground. So I ask, have you got a source, because I don't know that I trust a reversal of what I'm familiar with just on a KZread comment. I know some underground transmission has superconducting lines installed, but that's largely down to local constraints and is only done where absolutely necessary because the ongoing operational cost of the cryogenic coolant is non-zero.

@bobbresnahan8397

Ай бұрын

@@NidkidfulI think I read about it in Utility Dive or David Roberts. Laying underground DC cable along the freeway grid addresses two thorny problems -- permitting and maintenance. I may be wrong, but I also think it was discussed at NREL. There may be a paper on it, or the 2018 study that was suppressed by the Trump administration may have talked about it. That study suggested a handful (4 or 6 West to East DC lines and 2 North to South).

@bobbresnahan8397

Ай бұрын

@@NidkidfulAlso, I thought underground line loss was less than above ground. I'll look around -- google electricity line loss above and underground. Something like that. I was pretty deep into this stuff before my wife came down with cancer and died. Am getting back into it after my period of grieving.

@Nidkidful

Ай бұрын

@@bobbresnahan8397 potentially for HVDC, as it doesn't have capacitive losses, however it is quite hazardous to build HVDC underground, as it's much harder to build switchgear to open the circuit in sections should it be damaged, and the arcs are not self quenching, so any damage to the HVDC line would cause massive damage. It's also way more expensive because of the specialized equipment needed. HVDC only makes sense right now for long distance transmission, and while underground puts it in a more stable thermal environment, I don't know that combining two niche expensive applications is a viable cross country link.

Nice explanation indeed

One other benefit of replacing the wires is that the old cable can be recycled into the new cables. There by saving some mining and electricity in the production of new aluminium. Great channel.

@tactileslut

Ай бұрын

True, but it doesn't sound like this carries forward: the new glass and composite strands sound as recyclable as windmill blades, which aren't.

4:00 "...as those of us of certain age know only too well." OMG I didn't expect this.

I worked a couple of years in the energy industry and grid operators hate maintenance more than they hate anything else. I have seen producers urging them to upgrade their grid only to hear BS like "we are working on a project so we dont have money for anything else". not all of them of course but even those that do try to keep up have to do deal with unreasonable producers that want their part of the grid to upgraded first while "smaller" ones "can wait" even tho those "smaller" ones would be much more urgent/effective for the grid as a whole... its a mess on both sides of the issue.

In Australia I think we could see gains from a much more distributed grid, this is becoming the case with generation as a result of renewables and rooftop solar, but distributed storage is lagging, instead we are focusing on large scale projects such as snowy 2.0 and Tasmania battery of the nation. Distributed local storage would stop us sending power 1000s of km, saving transmission losses but making the existing network go much further. There's no lack of prospective pumped hydro sites.

@jaaklucas1329

25 күн бұрын

Distributed local storage would stop us sending power 1000s of km. Well said, the beauty of electricity is it is everywhere to be harvested.

Dropping dad jokes nonchalantly like a boss! XD

I wrote a paper last year on electricity for a greener world, where I looked at future consumption needs, generation, and transmission. I think that reconductoring is going to be a wonderful addition to any business looking to increase capacity and lower costs using existing transmission network infrastructure. Obviously cabling in only one part of the network, but it is good step in the right direction, and should also help with budgets for replacing pole-mounted transformers, etc. Thanks for sharing.

watching this, I realized that the grid or its cables may not be needed to replaced or upgraded for the EV future since you power companies can simply double or multiply the voltage depending on the capacity need. I don't know how much HV transformers or HVDC equipment costs but i think it is doable for not much more money and time.

@Nidkidful

Ай бұрын

The problem is more the lead time to get more HV transformer equipment. We're talking months or years lead time for conventional replacements, while big projects like changing the voltage on a major grid provider is a decade long process as a large number of isolators, switchgear, and all the transformers need replaced, and that stuff isn't built in the quantity required to do a fast changeover, as the typical lifespan is 20-60+ years, and any additional production would have until recently been wasted or idle.

@zodiacfml

Ай бұрын

​@@Nidkidful good point. I guess it's a chicken and egg problem. While there are more EVs vs previous years, grid power requirements did not increased or have reduced due to multiple reasons. There is no reason to increase transformer production. But then, if transformer availability remain a problem or gets worse, companies would have no choice but generate own power and use solar PV equipment for EV charging.

I totally agree. The electric Spanish grid is a really catastrophic mess. Where I live the grid that feeds our town is older than 60 years and the maintenance is near to 0 and the design is completely out of date. Now we already have problems with the solar power houses connected to the grid and provokes high voltage and can damage our electric devices. The main problem in Spain is the former presidents and ministers end up working in energetic companies in order to earn 300.000€ per year doing nothing only "for the services provided"

Oh, all this sounds great, thanks for your videos!

It would be interesting to combine this reconductoring with your previous video on increasing transmission voltage to improve efficiency further. Further efficiencies could be gained by increasing voltage supply into the home along with high power factor step-down conversion coupled with maybe 12V lighting circuits in the home.

Thumbs up. The revisiting and new stuff combination is really good

Awsome as always, thank you.

1:44 "taking the electrons from where they’re generated to where they’re needed. " - ok, I'll be _that_ guy: the electrons are not going far at all. They are travelling just a tiny distance relative to the grid (or even your home.) It's the *energy* that is travelling, through the electric field. In an AC line the electrons are just sloshing back and forth.

@scottyork8831

26 күн бұрын

They literally move less than a millimeter in distance.

0:53 two of the "three main US grid networks" include parts of Canada; so it would be better to refer to them as "the there main North American grid networks", and better still to show a map that includes the significant parts of Canada that are included

@simhedgesrex7097

Ай бұрын

North American? That would imply that it covered all of Canada and Mexico too.

@t0mmy44h

Ай бұрын

If he's talking about US consumption data, the 3 main grids that serve the US are relevant. If they also serve other territories, that's not relevant to this specific talking point. There's no need to get hung up on how he refers to them. Also, more shocking in this segment is the visual callout that Texas is just doing its own insane thing down there (which we have seen the consequences of in recent years).

Fascinating, thanks, something I’d never thought of. 👍

Dave, I attended Everything Electric Show on the Friday, really enjoyed your talk panela, you have a new subscriber.

This is a really superb presentation of information of which I had no knowledge. It makes me feel really good about the future of our energy grid. People like to act like we don't have the capacity. Doom and gloom!

@dkdisme

Ай бұрын

On the other hand, if usage is not increasing, revenue is not increasing so the incentive to improve the system is lacking.

@DRakeTRofKBam

Ай бұрын

that usage buffer could serve us well for a rapid ev transition regardless

In many cases an existing right of way can be upgraded with dual, triple, or more conductors in a bundle. This should work well if the voltage is not also ungraded (which would require new pylons.)

Always love your videos, Dave! 🎉😊

In Ontario Canada delivery is almost half the cost of electricity and a big contributor to power outages. A strategy to produce power at each home (ie fuel cell) would have a lot of advantages. Everyone off grid so to speak

Thanks for a very clear presentation. As an electrical engineer I liked it.

Quality. Simple, clear. Keep it up

I helped build a model for the Western Interconnection, the long-distance grid for Western North America that extends from Canada to Mexico and includes the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, the northern portion of Baja California, Mexico, and all or portions of the 14 Western states between. Using new technologies to upgrade existing towers and corridors was a major factor driving the model because of the challenges getting permits for new transmission and the capital costs of building new lines. Even so, plans called for roughly $1 billion per year in capital investment to bring new renewable energy online and get it to a market serving over 90 million people. It's important to note that the grid is designed for maximum load, so there is a huge overcapacity available off-peak to move energy if it can be stored. Local storage can be done at regional levels (e.g.: with pumped hydro), at local levels, or even with batteries dedicated to specific installations or homes. As batteries drop in price this is becoming more economically practical. I think distributed storage and generation will completely change the way the grid operates over the next 10-20 years.

@bearcubdaycare

Ай бұрын

A billion dollars a year sounds like a lot, until one realizes that America alone spends a trillion dollars a year on energy. An improved grid should benefit a lot. As an aside, it's interesting to note how enormous the reservoirs are in BC, if their hydro plants could be partly converted to peaker (like one west of Calgary) or backup instead of exclusively base load. (Using hydro exclusively as base load feels like a missed opportunity, and typically bad for the river downstream too.)

I love the elegance of this. There's also the ability to recycle all of that aluminum and steel from the old lines - 2 of the most recyclable existing materials. Thanks Dave! I know it's hard to find good news about the energy transition, but your stats throughout are very inspiring.

I know I have said it before but thank you for having real subtitles! I really appreciate it!

Always a well presented video, on something new to me .

Shorting the Grid by Meredith Angwin is a short book length overview of the electric grid in the U. S. I highly recommend this insider’s perspective.

Thank you for the commentary.

Fantastic video, Thankyou. Very informative and positive news.

A simple thank you, simply put, for your being a simply wonderful human being.

I remember reading a paper in the late 90's about findings from California and alternative power.bone key finding was 100MW power stations ie solar wind etc was around the right size to reduce transmission loss whilst affordable to build/profitable. Logically that principle makes sense, multiple generation sites close to citoes towns villages etc means less transmission loss.

Thanks!

Thumbs up for Jeremy and Colin!

It is interesting that you and a very few others provide such information. You answered so many seemingly silly questions I've been asking for years. Then, as I ask such questions, you are the first to answer while not telling me I just give them a headache.

The existing electrical grid is a dinosaur. We need graphene conductors located in a underground type electrical grid. We lose 5-8% of all the electricity being generated with our existing electrical grid. A great video!

@uiteoi

Ай бұрын

Yes, and underground requires HVDC to prevent capacitive losses, with added benefits of higher power transmission with the same cables, no need for reinforcement, the possibility of liquid cooling, but requires expensive high voltage AC DC conversion stations which become economical beyond 40 miles of transmission.

Thank you.

How encouraging!

Dave, thanks making this video about reconductoring that I asked for in the comments last week. I doubt you read my comment, but now I can refer people to your video for an excellent, concise explanation of reconductoring.

One of the best video’s definitely a no brainer for larger grids.

Excellent content as always! We're off to 'Everything electric' today here in the UK! Really looking forward to being inspired!

In addition to composite conductors, the US could also transition from High Voltage 60 Hz AC (Alternating Current) to Ultra-High Voltage DC (Direct Current) transmission to reduce (I^2R) losses even further. China already has many of these UHVDC transmission lines in service across the entire country.

This is good news! We've known for a long time that the grid was the biggest loss problem. More efficient wires are just the thingk! Add to that, solar installations where grid wiring is not practical - the beauty of solar is its ability to decentralize the power structure.

@jaaklucas1329

25 күн бұрын

he beauty of solar is its ability to decentralize the power structure.Well said and not just solar. We are just scratching the surface of electricity harvesting. Its everywhere.

@DaveBorlace As usual, another excellent and informative episode. There's also another mechanism available for increasing grid capacity, and that would be to improve its capacity factor. I don't know about the US, but the UK grid peak capacity is around double the average. Figures for peak grid capacity and difficult to find, but it has to equal or exceed peak demand which in the UK reached about 61GW (if I recall correctly but it might be a bit higher) a decade or so ago. The average demand is currently about 35GW, which means that if we could level out demand we could squeeze an extra 25 GW through the grid without overloading it. The key to utilising this spare capacity is a combination of demand side response/levelling and distributed storage, in particular viable long duration storage that would allow excess supply in the summer to be transferred to where it will be required in the winter, using spare off peak capacity.

Yeah, making every part of the system more efficient is going to help us all in the long-run for sure.

Thanks for covering the power grid....where and how our power comes from matters as much as any other issue in this technological space.

This is good news! 😊Have fun in London!!

Thanks to Robert Llewellyn, I made a presentation about the electrical needs of the petroleum industry. It's massive, probably 2/3 of all electricity, energy and infrastructure. By transitioning from fracking and tarsanding, we wouldn't need to replace todays levels. Every EV built (buses, trucks, farm and construction equipment as well as cars) is a storage device, which could save money and make the grid more efficient. The problem is that a bankster won't look at that as saving money, he would look at it as costing them money. That's the biggest problem.

Reconductoring to increase line capacity is fine but the ratings of the existing terminal equipment such as switchgear and transformers means these would have to be upgraded too.

@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475

Ай бұрын

Somebody built the power grid to begin with; We didn't inherit it from the dinosaurs. I guess rich people will have to start paying taxes again.

@andyphillips7435

Ай бұрын

Indeed, but as pointed out, this would be maintenance. Not requiring enquiries and planning permissions for new build .

@protectiongeek

Ай бұрын

I don't see your point. You could increase the line capacity ten-fold but if the switchgear controlling the line can't cope with the increased rating, you'll need to change that too or build another substation. Transformer capacity presents similar limitations.

@rednammoc

Ай бұрын

​@@protectiongeek Would upgrading existing switchgear and transformers be more expensive and time consuming than building brand new lines then?

@protectiongeek

Ай бұрын

@@rednammoc obviously, that depends on the details of the new line, principally its length. The costs associated with reconductoring to increase line capacity depend on a number of factors. For example, how much land is available within the existing substations/switching stations to accommodate new, higher rated apparatus? If no room for new bays exists at one or more stations, can adjacent land be purchased? If additional land can be purchased, what permitting etc will be required? The permitting process for extending a station could take a similar amount of time to that of a new line, depending on the circumstances. All I’m pointing out is that reconductoring and/or dynamic rating technology developments, while welcome, are not in themselves going to accelerate an increase of transmission network capacity. They are one part of the solution going forward but there are lots of parts to the machine!

Cheers, Dave, interesting stuff, just what we need!

Another technology contribution to a better world. Not a game changer, but a welcome improvement. Presumably these cables are just as usable with higher voltage, and with DC lines... caveat replacing insulators and transformers cost requirements.

In UK we had a transition through ACSR to ACAR to AAAC or Aluminon Conductor Alloy reinforced to All Aluminium Alloy Conductor

Thanks for the new video.

What about using really high voltage DC lines in stead of AC that is also a major solution in conducting more power

@thatfatman6978

Ай бұрын

I forget what it is but there has to be a certain distance and amount of power being transmitted before the economics of the higher cost infrastructure outweighs the loss of energy due to resistance.

@jamesphillips2285

Ай бұрын

@@thatfatman6978 There are also useful for tying together different grids which may be out of phase.

@frankodonnell9956

Ай бұрын

the terminal equipment for HVDC is very expensive but works for long distances and high MW capacity.

Thanks for the great video! I am an electrical engineer from Germany and although not working at a DSO anymore, I was wondering why this is not covered in any scientific discussion I attended. So I did a little research: 1. According to a paper from the federal department of economic and climate affairs from 2014, 30-50% of the costs for building a new power line come from the cables itself. 2. The ACCC type seems to be 7-10 times more expensive than the ACSR type. Therefore changing the cables of an existing power line would me more expensive than building another power line with the same capacity. As I said this is based on some superficial research, so I would be happy to hear your opinion on this!

Another method of increasing the power carried by high tension lines is bundling. Two, three or four cables are used to carry a single phase and bundled wires can carry more voltage with less losses. The resistance of a line and hence the energy wastage is proportional to the amperage and the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage can be to carry the same power.

Pylons…. I’ve not previously heard them called that before. I’ve previously heard them referred to as “towers”. Interesting! I was listening to the video (rather than watching it) and was confused what was being referred to at first. :-)

Reconductoring is a great idea, and, as your chart shows, these conductor upgrades have been going on for quite some time. I was involved in a similar project to these ten years ago (the conductor we installed still had the steel core, but was otherwise the same). Having said that, they will have very little impact on the major problem of relying on electrons generated far away from where they are used. This is a huge problem, and one that is not appreciated in the environmental community. By all means, let's reconductor, but let us also develop technologies that can be located closer to the end user. Geothermal, and if need be nuclear (😮).

@incognitotorpedo42

Ай бұрын

Solar and wind assets tend to be located far from where the electricity is needed. Since both are intermittent, and there is a three hour shift in peak load from the east side of the continent to the west, long distance transmission lines are quite valuable. Enhanced Geothermal is a promising new generation method, although there are issues with induced seismicity. All I can say about nuclear is good luck paying for it and good luck getting people to let you build it near them. What exactly is the environmental disaster of transmission lines, particularly compared to the environmental disaster of climate change, which affects the entire planet?

@carrdoug99

Ай бұрын

@incognitotorpedo42 The problem with transmission lines is getting them built. It isn't just private landowners that are the problem either. We have few habitats that are reserved for threatened wildlife, resulting in our fellow environmentalists putting up some of the stiffest resistance to transmission projects. Depending on generation that is concentrated in a few far away regions comes with a host of problems that should be avoided if at all possible. Anyone in the industry can tell you that powerlines tend to have unavoidable pinch points. If these pinch points are damaged by storms, terrorism, or some other failure, large areas of the grid can be effected for extended periods of time. The fewer the sources of generation, and the longer the transmission miles, the worse this problem becomes. An additional problem for Europe is that many of these sources are beyond the control of local governments. We only have to look at recent events to see how bad an idea that is. As far as nuclear being built, many countries are reevaluating their position on nuclear, with many communities being in favor. I think many countries are realizing that for their area, wind and solar is a square peg trying to be shoved into a round hole. Before anyone responds with how cheap solar and wind are to install. Consider, those instalation cost don't include the battery storage, the 30% increase in transmission miles (for the US), or the capacity factor for wind and solar. Wind has a capacity factor of about 25. Meaning, the facility reaches 25% of its rated capacity on an annualized basis. Solar can be much worse, with a capacity factor of 10-25 depending on location. This is such an accepted fact that industry planners routinely recommend over building the facilities being planned by a factor of 4 to account for these low capacity factor numbers. In addition, they incorporate a gas-powered peaker plant as part of the project to address the same problem. A lot of work, and we're just spinning our wheels. With recent developments, my first choice, by far, is geothermal (some of the new designs should minimize the earthquake problem). For many regions of the world, my second choice is nuclear, and many governments are agreeing with me.

3:44 ACSR does not mean the aluminum conductors are protected by the steel. The steel is the loadbearing section and the aluminum the current bearing section. Without the steel, Aluminum wires would sag far too much and the risk of breaking would be quite high. The steel holds it up and steel is quite cheap. 5:23 The weight of the cable, regardless of the core, is still a major hurdle. That weight induces forces on the structures that hold them up. If you go too heavy, you'd need thicker (can also be read as taller) poles to handle those forces. Poles for distribution are often made of wood. These can be anywhere between $1000-2500 depending on height. If you go for stronger materials like concrete or fiberglass, those costs go up substantially more. And if you consider that a square mile of area that is relatively densely populated likely has 1,000 poles or more... you can see how the costs of this would go up quite quickly for even a small change. Who's going to pay for it? 6:21 Permitting isn't as big of an issue as you might think. Standard municipal permits for work (I'm a utilities designer, btw, specifically for electric) generally take a week or less. It's only when you get into culturally or environmentally sensitive areas that you run into extended timeframes. Most utilities have existing agreements with the municipalities they serve to expedite permitting processes. 7:30 Transmission losses are only really relevant for transmission lines, specifically, ATC (American Transmission Company) in the midwest. They're usually in the hundreds of thousands of volts whereas distribution, going from the substations to your homes, are only 10s of thousands. Rather than reconductoring, a simpler solution would be to kick up the voltage. Doing so reduces the current, which reduces the heating. The only issue is you'd need to replace all the transformers that take that high transmission voltage and drop it to a distribution voltage. That distrubution voltage is usually go for 20 miles or so before you have too great of losses. If you change the distribution voltage and make that higher too, then you have to replace all the service voltage transformers... and that's also expensive. There are three very important questions you have to ask youself about this 'idea'... Who's going to supply the materials? How much is it going to cost? Who's going to pay for it? Public Utilities have agreements with the states within which they operate to establish the costs of the service. If you start taking on huge (and expensive) projects like this, it first has to go through planning. What's it going to cost? What's the timeline? And then they have to propose an increase to the paying rate for the service to the State for approval. If it is too high, the State will not allow it, which means the project dies. Utilities do not generate a lot of profit and they operate very closely within the margins. Hell, we get updates on the budget every month or so during our group meetings. It sounds good... but until it's broken down into details to the point where it's generally given to be cost-effective, it's not leaving the ground. Utilities can't just print money to pay for projects like these. Whatever something costs, we have to take in at least that much to pay for it. There is no credit system here, no 'National Debt' to fall back on. And if you cannot provide a relatively cheap source of electricity to the customers, they won't live here and if they don't live here, there' won't be utility bills being paid which means no monies for projects like this. That's really the only gripe I have about your channel. Nearly every story is "Oh here's something we should be doing! Nevermind that it's extremely expensive... just throw some money at it!" but you never get down into the details of how it would actually be paid. Sure, you can look at figures and graphs and get a high level estimate of costs and savings, but that's the same as using laboratory conditions for solar and expecting real-world solar to operate exactly the same at exactly the same cost. And you and I both know that isn't how that works. But... as far as this ONE idea goes... it's not a terrible one. It's still bad, but not terrible. Cheers.

@marczakian3511

Ай бұрын

The cables have to be replaced every 40 years so you would assume putting in new cabling is factored into power company budgets. Not everyone lives in the US, in the UK, where this channel is based, National Grid does replace pylon cables in major repair and upgrade. Same in Germany.

@markumbers5362

Ай бұрын

Thanks for that. I have no idea about the true economics of making the grid more efficient but I do know that home and car battery prices are going to come down about 50% or more. When that happens, being off grid with solar, in countries like Australia that don't have long very cold winters, will be cheaper than being grid connected. Many small towns and isolated farms will simply not need those expensive long connections to a centralised generator. How decentralised generation and storage will affect the economics of the grid is what interests me.

@blaydCA

Ай бұрын

​@@marczakian3511 Deferred maintenance enters the conversation. Investor owned utilities are notorious for operate until it dies. The UK has it's little issues too, such as sewerage going into the ocean and DRAX.

@choui4

Ай бұрын

You raise some good questions and offer a fair critique, I think. However, I have some questions and critiques of my own. 1. Are you saying thw wooden pylons would HAVE to be replaced? 2. I could be wrong about this. But reviewing the engineering may take a week on new builds. But, going from doc submission to shovels is significantly longer, no? Otherwise your critiques are based on privatized grids. Which, unfortunately for you Americans, is a serious drawback. So, it's probably right for your area, but like other have stated, may not be for others (cost wise). Plus, if we're ever going to save the planet, we do need to stop micro managing cost and start to invest in our futures. That's not a critique for you. Just my own feelings. Speaking of which, this is why we NEED to get rid of capitalism and privatization. It's been killing us for centuries. It's time we start thinking about what's best for humanity not the stock market.

@Xero1of1

Ай бұрын

@@choui4 1: If the poles or pylons cannot handle the additional stress you'd be putting on them, then yes, absolutely, they would need to be replaced. 2: It depends. I've recieved a job, had it designed and approved within a week, had the permit approved that same day and had shovels in the ground the following week. It takes coordination and effort as well as good rapport, but it can be done. Privatized grids (read that as State-enforced monopoly) is why we have singular poles with very few cables on them as opposed to some places I've been to in Asia where they have, quite literally, hundreds of cables on a single pole and wires going everywhere that makes it look like a rat's nest in the sky. That is incredibly dangerous and often poses several other problems. If you want to save the planet, you HAVE to come up with ideas that are cost-effective. America, at least, is not a dictatorship nor purely communist, socialist or capitalist country. We have aspects of all 4, but not purely one or the other. For the best ideas, the best quality and cheapest costs, capitalism, and I mean real capitalism, not the pseudo-capitalism we have here, is the only way. People need to build the things. They need to be paid to build the things, and other companies must exist the supply the things the people need to build the things. You have to have multiple companies supplying the things to create competition which drives down price and drives up quality. If you're not paying the people to build the things, that's no better than slavery. And ultimately, it's what every communist and socialist system devolves to. The Have's get to do nothing and live a life of luxury and the have-nots get stuck with the back-breaking labor for pennies, if that. Sorry. Capitalism is the only fair way forward and Capitalism means thinking about the costs of things and apply methods that are cost-effective. If you want to kill us quicker than 'centuries', as you say, then move further away from Capitalism. Instead of centuries, it'll be decades.

Great episode.. here in Oz, we have so much trouble with new lines

Thanks for the new video! One thing that makes this a particularly cheerful story is that it's an innovation that's already happening. ACCC conductors are already being installed as part of the regular upgrade cycle for power lines. (Although I guess a political push will be needed to get electrical companies moving in places where they never do upgrades or maintenance.) Much to my surprise it seems one of our provincial power companies (Enmax) has already installed an ACCC line, and we're not exactly on the bleeding edge of technology here.

@Just Have A Think I enjoy watching your videos here in Trujillo Perú.

I love the bits of humour thrown in... Keep up the good work!!

Along with this I do wonder if some of the current transmission lines could be modified to operate at higher voltages. This would require new transformers etc and also depend on insulation and wire separation. Even more complicated but also interesting is the conversion of some of these to high voltage DC lines (HVDC). Much more expensive but lots of benefits.

3:42 aluminium conductor with steel wire armour protection.. Shirely, that's what you'd put in the ground. Above ground, the steel is the central core with conductors wrapped around it.

Thank you for a useful update on better wires available. One recent event in Australia adds another issue - storms causing the support structures to fail. Apparently the older structures are getting old and were rated for lower wind velocities. We are now getting stronger winds in unexpected places at a higher frequency. This is not to stop rewiring as you suggest but does add to the size of our backlog. Infrastructure has been neglected for way too long and more rear end bites are coming. Let's be optimistic and see this as job security for those involved.

As an economist, former utility planner and current entrepreneur the biggest challenge we face is liner thinking by engineers stuck in their narrow paradigm.

@jaaklucas1329

25 күн бұрын

The most coveted asset we have in this topic are engineers with imagination, very hard to find!

@5:23 why didn't the graph finish the temprature range on the ACCC wire? I saw that it was performing well to 180*C but then it's just a blue bar out past that.. what gives?

@frankodonnell9956

Ай бұрын

Short circuit conductor temperature limit is usually 250 Deg C, with a limit on the duration of course.

Thank you Dave for your balanced but positive approach to give us hope how science can give us the solutions, now as engineers we have to turn it into the solutions for the future. Keep up the great work Paul

Very important topic here, way to go.

Beautiful ❤

If sagging has been reduced they could fit longer insulators and increase the operating voltage of the grid, thus getting more power through for a given current.

Great information about good news! Well done

Sitting with most stuff on in the house now (including this computer) cosuming less than 300W. I remember in the 1970s, all of us in the front room watching one telly and having the lights on would be around a KiloWatt. Tellies, lights & fridges consumed staggering ammounts then.