I wonder how much this test is influenced by other available space within the hive as well as population. Definitely another great source of information for beekeepers to have

I’m smiling through this whole vid cuz it’s so satisfying. The sun being out helps too.

I was an intern in a bee breeding program. I used to do this test and from memory I can recal that on average the rate of cleaning was »85% at 24h and 98+% at 48h. You have a lot of room to improve, keep it up!

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

2 жыл бұрын

oh yes, its a start

So amazing to be able to see realized results from that test. Thanks for sharing!

its good to see the results . ty

These are the kind of processes that you have been talking about for years! You are right about all the different layers that are possible down the road?Outstanding stuff! 👍👍

Thanks for the study. Please keep us informed.

It’s really cool seeing this test done in real life. Thank you for sharing this!

This is so cool! I like the idea of a clean bee.

That's amazing! Thanks for sharing this.

Very valuable information. Absolutely love videos with "real" educational value! Thank you

Now you know where to select your future queens! Good work!

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the numberss 😁

Smart keepers have great bees :) The brilliance of #7 and 15 is the best of the bunch .

Very Very cool info and fairly simple process in rooting out the best traits that we are looking for. May thanks for sharing all this videos that we can follow and grow with you.

Thank you for showing this. Another way is to see how clean the bottom board stays on a hive. Have a Great weekend. The Girls are looking great. Am getting ready to go drop cells in the splits that where pulled this morning. All the other hives have a second back on that is full of frames of foundation for them to draw out. will be fun to see how many each hive will draw out. Need close to 5 10 frame deeps per hive would be nice but thats a lot. we will see because it will be needed next year. Take care Sir

You can spot the queen on the left at 3:41. A dark Carni looking queen.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I wondered if someone would chime that in :) good eye

@thatguy3456

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks I am fourth year beekeeper and I still trying very hard to hone my queen finding skills.

Looking good, Boss!

Good job!

Awesome, thanks for sharing. On hive 15th I noticed that the bees also cleaned the opposite side of the freeze circle at the center of the frame. I wonder if they did the same on the other hives.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I hadn’t noticed !

That is awesome it really will help with your future for sure

Good job👍👍👍

This definitely looks like something worth doing on any breeder candidates. And while the professional review may be valuable, I think the results are pretty clear visually!

Awesome!! I love learning more and trying new things. I’m looking forward to putting bees on an island this summer.

@jonhatchcirclejfarms1628

3 жыл бұрын

An island? Wow are you going tropical?

@aremedyproject9569

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonhatchcirclejfarms1628 She’s hot at least!!

@aremedyproject9569

3 жыл бұрын

Bees & Bikinis After this round of chemo I’d love to come up there and put my kayak in the bay! Would love to meet your bees in person. Cheers from Ottawa. 🐝

@rodolflinner4201

3 жыл бұрын

Hi how are you friend

@BeesBikinis

3 жыл бұрын

@@aremedyproject9569 it’s a date!

Very interesting!

If you are checking after another 24 hours you might check the other side of the frame to see if the liquid nitrogen killed the brood there and if they are being removed too

@edwinhsingmaster9135

3 жыл бұрын

Class mates will suspect their parents were well diggers. Their jobs will be for the A/C.

You will notice that number 4 hive had more empty cells around the frozen sections. Maybe the need to clean out wasnt as strong as the queen had room to lay as opposed to other hives that were hygenic but also had no room to lay

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

That is an interesting supposition. You would really need a controlled scenario almost lab conditions to really prove that one way or the other, but a trully interesting gynamic I had not even considered.

@vwbusguy

3 жыл бұрын

Well if you think about availabe space inside a colony the queen will only lay at a given rate and if there is plenty of room then the workers may not have the need to be so fastidious in cleaning out cells??

Fascinating! So, only the side of the frame in contact with the nitrogen is killed - Am I seeing this right? Any excuses for the 'less-hygenic' colonies? Thanks for this.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you are right , Hygienic behaviour tends to handle brood type diseases better

It will be interesting to see what the mite count is through out the year with those 2 colonies.

@dearbabyjesus2910

3 жыл бұрын

Would love to see a trending of the mite counts for hive 7 & 15.

I'm curious about the extra info on one of the hives that were not as hygienic? You know how you looked down at the front of that very hygienic colony and talked about its history? Then the next colony had hardly any attention to the dead bees. What was the history, for example, on that hive? Were your analytics in the past showing similar observations? Thank you very much for sharing!

Ian, if anything else its a reminder that out of any above average group only the smallest portion turn out to be elite!

I am always very open minded about this hygenic testing. In the end they all clear out the dead bees but the speed that they do this must be the marker, but have you considered the balance of different types of bees in the colonies at this Time of year? It always makes me curious to know the perfect time to carry out this test! It’s a lot of work to do but as you say it does add another layer to your selection criteria! Nice video. I would be interested to know the exact criteria that makes these tests worth the work and what the scientific markers are! Thanks for sharing! 💯📌💥🐝🐝🐝

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

Good point Richard! Time is ALWAYS an explicable variable in any scientific test and time in this case has many factors... Time of Day, Time in gestation cycle e.g., what stage of pupae? It is so hard to do a controlled test under these types of conditions which is probably a contributor to the variability of success.

I was interested in your comments regarding future selection criteria. Historically you have been selecting for honey production, reproduction and colony survival. As you add selection pressure to other traits the original selected traits may lose ground. At least, that is the way of genetic selection in other domesticated animals.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

What if those selection pressures are all the same ?

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog Newton's 2nd law regarding Entropy then begins to ensue.

@larrycollar1322

3 жыл бұрын

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I’m not sure I understand how all selection traits can be the same. Using dairy cattle as an example, historically farmers selected for high milk production and docile demeanor. After WWII it became apparent that cows producing milk with more butterfat and solids nonfat were more profitable than cows producing a similar amount of milk with lessor amounts of components because the milk is separated into components to make butter and cheese. The remaining whey was a near worthless byproduct. So dairymen began selecting for cattle that produced a lot of milk plus butterfat and solids nonfat. This selection for specific traits worked to increase profitability but also had some negative and unexpected consequences. Cows that had been selected for more milk, butterfat and solids also didn’t survive in the milking herd as long because of some negative traits that snuck in. Mastitis, reduced reproduction and poor feet and legs all contributed to a shorter life in the milking herd. Instead of living six or seven years, cows only remained profitable for around three or four lactation cycles. So, the point of this is you can and should select for desirable traits like honey production, hygienic traits and reproduction. In the process be on the lookout for undesirable traits that might surface unexpectedly.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, it’s called trade offs Out forever attempt to find what we want lol

Great info! Thanks for sharing! On a side note, have you done a video explaining your labeling method? I have struggled finding a method for quick and easy labeling of my colonies and would be interested in hearing your method. As always, keep up the great work Ian!

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I’ll cover that one in my next Q/A when I get a chance

Sorry I could not hear what the Jack card signifies. Help!

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Breeder queen ID

Pretty incredible test. How much to ship Hive #7 to PA😀

7 is my number ask anyone that knows me. So I think I this is neat. I think you are already doing a good job of raising queens. Don’t loose sight of what you are doing to chase something else. But if it adds a that extra layer and brings out more “brilliance” that would be awesome

I’m surprised to see as much variation as there was between hives. I would’ve guessed that all the hives would’ve been pretty close to the same. Awesome video. Just curious. Since you started raising your own queens have you ever brought in ii’d breeder queens to introduce traits into your stock/restore hybrid vigor? Would be awesome to have a your couple virgin queens inseminated with known VSH drones, or some know VSH virgins inseminated with drones from your top performing queens. Wish I knew more about queen breeding. So interesting

I'd like to know if "need" is figured into this test. The "cleaner bees" will work ahead of the queen, or she may follow them. If those specialized bees are working another frame for that 24 hours is that definitive. In striving for trait perfection, the trade-offs are harder to track and more important. The male may also figure in as part or whole of the result.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I agree , there are always trade offs. But that said, using this to help with brood infection is a good step forward

Had not seen double tests per frame before. Twice the area to clean out making it a harder test for them KRTP#7 aces the test. Hive 15 amazing.

Pretty cool.

Be careful, 24h is a short period of time (like you said)... Bees have a "check list", they perform tasks by priority. You should make a follow-up every 24h before choosing the good hygienic breeder. You have a powerful tool there... And another test you can do is to check if the queen is going to lay eggs in there?! (Stress memory...!). A+

9 had drone as well i wonder if there is an issue within colony and the need to clean out wasnt as strong

So freaking cool, that test is so fascinating can you please provide us with how each scored and the scoring system? I get the overall picture but it would be cool to know we're the cutoff line for exceptability is.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Good point, I’ll post that shortly

Nice! Will you be playing 7 and 15 in the lottery? 😁 Thanks for sharing this with the little guy.

We select a few years now with this method. But we reduced the time to 12 and now to 6 hours to see even a difference. Because after 24h everything is cleanded out. Our second layer of selections ist mite drops on the sticky board with bite marks on the mites. An our hives doesn't need chemical treatment for varroa mites.

@7landenterprises578

3 жыл бұрын

Are you in Canada?

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

How many hives do you test per year for this trait? What other traits are you genetically testing for?

@f.9485

3 жыл бұрын

@@7landenterprises578 nope Austria

@f.9485

3 жыл бұрын

@@popquizzz 50 hives I don't have more. Varroa mite resistance is my most important one.

Good job... You will need to mark your queens to make sure you graft from the correct queen.

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

Possibly number them

So you found some awesome queens but what about controlling what drones the awesome queens are mated with?

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Good point but remember, continual selection will promote more drones as such

Very interesting. . Hive 3 you could definitely see them clustered on the two areas working them. Hive 4 failed it looks. This is very interesting Ian. .

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I wondered if someone would chime in with that observation

@CastleHives

3 жыл бұрын

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog it was obvious. Very cool. Number 7 i think it was did amazing.

Does hygienic behavior follow the queen or the workers? I wonder if the test should be done when you know the queen and the workers she produced.

Were the hives weighed or checked for similar population density? What little reading ive done so far would suggest a second test of at least the top performers would control for so many variables.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

All hives were chosen because they all were large well performing hives

I do find it amazing that they have to use liquid nitrogen to do that. You would think some ice cubes would be cold enough to chill some brood. Lol

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

Better to use liquid nitrogen, because liquid helium is so darn expensive and, using liquid hydrogen around a lit smoker may have a tendency to create a small crate in your apiary. But I do get your point with ice cubes. The goal is not to create a liquid problem from water/ice and liquid nitrogen will completely evaporate and is inert. Also liquid oxygen could cause fire issues or spreading of fire more easier as it evaporates. Liquid Oxygen has also been in more limited supplies since Covid-19 due to the use in many medical applications for respiratory patients.

@ke6gwf

3 жыл бұрын

Liquid nitrogen is super cheap (most abundant gas in the atmosphere), is one of the colder cryogenic liquids, and is inert and not flammable. At -195c/-320f, it will instantly freeze the brood, even in capped cells. An ice cube can never get another item below freezing, so it would just give the pupae a cold, not freeze them, and so some might survive, messing up the test.

@mckeeshoneybees8351

3 жыл бұрын

@@ke6gwf thanks for the info. It makes me wonder then, at what point having the brood out of the colony(incubation temps) will chill or kill the brood. Basically if you pull frames out in 50f degrees temps, how long till brood dies?

I am positive I made my first queen. They still wanted to swarm and had a supersedure cell along with some swarm cells. So I split her into a new hive. Checked ten days later and I found a hatched supersedure cell. But that hive is queen right. Breeding bugs seems to be crossing some line. Bees are both sexual through queens and drones and asexual through swarming. Just fascinating how nature figures out ways to survive.

Hive #5 at 3:35 - big beautiful jet black queen!!

Any Corey Stevens queens yet? 🎉

Have you tested again since to see if the average rates across all the hives have increased ?

Did you notice a relationship between the frames within the hive with spotted brood pattern and scoring high with hygienic behavior? There appears to be one but I can only see the frames you showed.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

The spotted pattern on some are more so related to restricted space and pollen packing

When you get queens from 15 & 7, I will crash the border to get some.....

Ian.....do you honestly think there are bees that are so Varroa resistant enough that you would not have to treat them? Or is that just not possible?

Nitrojen dökünce ne oldu

How does hygienic behavior translate to better colonies down the road? Is there a direct correlation between chilled/dead brood removal and mite load counts that you know of or any impact on reduction of other colony diseases? I've often wondered what this test amounts to other than the bees realizing they have capped dead brood and some remove the brood faster than others. Can you keep us aware of the results from the lab and what they mean and if you have the time check in on the hives again at 48 and 72 hour intervals to see if these were eventually cleaned out, just at differing time intervals for completion. Sorry for asking you to work more when you are so busy, but this is very useful information. Thank Ian.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Better hygienic bees show a tendency to winter better, probably because they handle disease issues better or differently

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog That is fascinating. I wouldn't have thought as that being a first corollary in this thought process. It really broadens the scope of why propagate those genetics. I think I have heard two different sides to how hygienic traits are passed with one Master Beekeeper saying from the male genetics and another Master Beekeeper or Researcher saying they come from the female genetics. Do you happen to have any thought on this one way or the other? And will you be following up with queens propagated from #7 and #15 to share if offspring queens and brood are equally hygienic?

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not exactly sure and my hunch is they don’t quite understand either but It has been shown to improve survival. Those high hygienic hives came from my breeding line’s which started from US Cali queen stock.

I saw that caramel colored queen too. Are you wearing Color Blind glasses made by EnChroma? You might be able to pick up the red tints on that queen's abdomen. You mentioned that you are color blind.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I have never worn those glasses before , life would be too straightforward if I did lol

How did the freezeing affect the other side of the frame

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Didn’t check lol

Did you happen to check the hives after a 48 hour period to see how the progress was going?

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

I could definitely do that, but scrambling busy so I didn’t lol I have the selection info I need

What is the accuracy of the hygeniec test translating to VSH behaviors of removing pupae parasitized by Varroa? Seems like most bees remove dead bees but the difference is VSH removing pupae with Varroa and disrupting the Varroa's reproduction rate. Only a novice in this so probably am overlooking something.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

There are some ties but not closely related enough to prove effective

@researcherAmateur

3 жыл бұрын

You have to start with something. It shows the differences... The Pin test is next

Nice results all around well done minus 1 maybe

Curious as to why each frame had 2 different areas frozen as opposed to just one ???

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

Always do two or more. You are trying to eliminate other variables that may come into play.

8:16 Selecting for VHS behavior? Isn't that taking a step back? 🤣

@ke6gwf

3 жыл бұрын

Be kind, please rewind!

Great video. Probably could've done without the camera clicking sound that is ear drum splittingly loud. But we can all be picky… 👍

what breed of bees

Thank you for this informative follow up of the yesterday video. Please keep us informed how the daughters of the selected queens behave. Will you use artificial insemination to get offsprings of the best two queens?

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Just continual one more annual breeder selection criteria

4,8,12 should be culled. Awesome content

@popquizzz

3 жыл бұрын

Are you basing that on this one test? What if these hives provide exceptional honey crops and raise lots of brood but don't consume many resources? My point is beekeeping and queen rearing are never "one trick ponies" IMHO.

@PowerMusicKG17

3 жыл бұрын

@@popquizzz If hygienic behaviour is a trait he is selecting for yes. Keep in mind he has already selected for productivity, etc. This is an added trait on top of the excellent selection work previously done.

Yorumlara cevap verebilirmisin

Ne oldu sonuç ne

Hi ian nice work but why u do this test

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Check out previous vid

I question the validity of the test on these hives because some of the bees are from other hives. You just dumped 10 lbs of bees in them the other day and so some percentage of the bees are not related to the queen.

@trevormcclurkin3984

3 жыл бұрын

I believe the 10lbs of bees was put into the cell builders. These are the breeder queen hives that were just pulled out of the yards after spring set out.

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Breeders are different from builders

👍👌

🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🌞

Curious about this. I guess you are using this as an already validated test? Rather than being part of the research to validate it? I ask because if you have already selected your 15 breeder hives then you do the hygenic test, surely you have biased your results by not taking a random selection?

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

My 15 selected colonies were chosen from gathering hives that possessed characteristics of other traits I admired. The hygienic test is just one trait that I’m also looking for,

@PhillipFreeman1

3 жыл бұрын

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog so ace vs jack is that a code for different traits you like? Loving your vlogs btw, informative and to the point. You have taught me a lot!

@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog

3 жыл бұрын

Those are simply ID tags The other hive flags show our in field trait expression. We continue to add to it :)

+Ktoś po polsku przetłumaczy co chłop zrobił?:P

That young man that sells his Queen for a couple hundred dollars you might be able to sell some of him. LOL I might have to quit honey and sell bees