Reducing porosity... Whats a surge trap?

Ойын-сауық

I recently saw a video of a pour against a glass plate. That video is featured within this one. It is a very graphic depiction of what a surge trap is used for.
If you're not interested in learning anything skip to 13:37 and watch 12 seconds of me pouring metal out of a crucible.
Andrew Martin's channel / @andrewmartin4258
Andrew's video • Foundry 18: Second Gla...

Пікірлер: 110

  • @johndilsaver8409
    @johndilsaver84095 жыл бұрын

    This is a very thought provoking video, and Andrew's glass faced pour was fascinating. Thanks for posting and linking!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    It is fascinating. I see that he posted a large sprue video today as well. that one is very telling.

  • @shawnwillis7561
    @shawnwillis75614 жыл бұрын

    I appreciate the info. I trying to get set up in aluminum casting and I'm glad I saw your videos first. You've got some info I haven't seen yet. Thank you

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for letting me know Shawn. I appreciate it. If you ever have questions, don't hesitate to email me.

  • @carlericvonkleistiii2188
    @carlericvonkleistiii21885 жыл бұрын

    I stopped in mid-video and went and watched Andy's videos. Thanks for referencing them. They are great! Your 3D printed patterns are really nice. I love the precision you get with them.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Yeah, I couldn’t do what I’m doing without my printer.

  • @richdobbs6595
    @richdobbs65953 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for this explanation. In looking at your more recent "Learning to cast metal" series, I was wondering about the surge trap's purpose. I just needed to dig back into your catalog!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    Glad you did, so many people never seem to look past the video they're watching at the moment 😄

  • @RustyGlovebox
    @RustyGlovebox5 жыл бұрын

    It is very interesting the knowledge you have gained from your start. Congrats

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks bud. I would have never guessed I’d be learning so much

  • @tbkustomknives8907
    @tbkustomknives89075 жыл бұрын

    Great video and good info👍

  • @tadahead7174
    @tadahead71744 жыл бұрын

    I love visiting your videos for information. I've enjoyed since you were casting your Al bronze hammer. Love it all. Thank you. I've now casted a few hammers myself. I understand the frustration!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    Sorry for the delayed reply. Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it. 😀

  • @runliftthrow217
    @runliftthrow2175 жыл бұрын

    Excellent breakdown! I’m gonna try this on my next pour.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Good luck with it. It's all about learning and improving.

  • @Preso58
    @Preso585 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the tips. I have given up trying to procure fluxes and degassing agents and I have instead reached the same conclusions regarding technique. So much to think about and I am heading over to Andy's channel now to see what he's up to. Regards, Mark Presling, Queensland, Australia

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Your countryman will tell you that all of the things I mention need to be applied ;-)

  • @rachidbouakaz6702
    @rachidbouakaz6702Ай бұрын

    Thank you for all your videos you give as a porosity solutions 😊

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    Ай бұрын

    You are so welcome!

  • @rockelec
    @rockelec5 жыл бұрын

    I keep learning from your videos. 😁 Have a safe trip

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks it was short but good

  • @MLFranklin
    @MLFranklin4 жыл бұрын

    I really liked this Great explanations. And I plan to check out Andrew's channel.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks. Yeah, he did some great work with the glass.

  • @leonzorg
    @leonzorg4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for sharing! nice job!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    My pleasure and thanks

  • @charliechancontraptions5951
    @charliechancontraptions59513 жыл бұрын

    Excellent again!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks again!

  • @charliechancontraptions5951

    @charliechancontraptions5951

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb It's amazing how obvious things are in hindsight, once someone explains it. ;-)

  • @Sodabowski
    @Sodabowski5 жыл бұрын

    Doood, I really need to get that darn book. Thanks for the vids and the link, off to Andrew's.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    As we used to say back in the day...when I lived in SoCal.."No 'blem dude" ;-)

  • @grandadz_forge
    @grandadz_forge5 жыл бұрын

    Interesting and informative. Makes me wanna cast.

  • @raschellesherwood6347
    @raschellesherwood63475 жыл бұрын

    Spot on tobho couldnt have explained it any better myself. What is doing my head in, is the metal speed and how it crashes into the far wall but does not create a bifilm with a so called splash back bloody fantastic. Wishing my castings would fill this well behaved lol. Great links and as always very helpful and great to watch... shut up and get to the pour!!!!! Lol some ppl are so rude lol... talk as much as you like mate it's great entertainment and education.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I'm actually getting less of those kind of comments. I probably ramble less now and try to have more meaningful dialog than I used to. At any rate, I have no intention of shutting up, ever ;-D

  • @raschellesherwood6347

    @raschellesherwood6347

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb well whatever your talking about I'm intently listening. And I love the energy and the way your putting all your fails and susscesses out there for us to see and learn from. And it must be said I watch at least or re watch your vids everyday. So thanks for all the tips and lessons your consistently delivering with your refreshing sense of humor

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@raschellesherwood6347 Everyday??? I've never met a real live masochist before :-D Seriously, thank you I appreciate your comments more than you'll know.

  • @raschellesherwood6347

    @raschellesherwood6347

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb yes everyday. There are no more casting videos on here for me to watch. I've seen em all. Hundreds of hours spent looking for casting videos. And yeah some ppl might think it's tedious but it's an obsession for me and has been for the last 2 years. So if you got anything new or old stuff you haven't uploaded yet I would gladly appreciate it. Or point me in the direction of new casting Chanel's. I have, vegoil,old found,bigsta,tubleca,fordbo,and the usual Paul's Ga.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    And now you have Andy's ;-) I've got a couple of pours planned that will take time for me to set up. Hang in there, they're coming.

  • @bclare2544
    @bclare25445 жыл бұрын

    Very interesting Perry.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I agree. I watched Andy’s video a number of times and saw something new each time

  • @joell439
    @joell4393 жыл бұрын

    Agreed - fascinating 👍👍😊👍👍

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks. But then I say that about just about every new thing I learn 🤣

  • @azzmodaeum
    @azzmodaeum3 жыл бұрын

    Great video! Great idea! Do you think a second plug could be added at the bottom of the hole to slow the flow more?

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, but I'm not sure I'm following you. If you want to discuss it further, you can email me at swdweeb@gmail.com

  • @vincentpernicano3277
    @vincentpernicano32775 жыл бұрын

    Fantastic video. I am so happy to see there is a solution out there than all this stuff about flux and degassing which there seems to be a lot of disinformation on. I have a question though, why not make the runner enter the mold on an incline? Just curious. I am going to begin casting this summer for the first time and I have just finished a course in fluid dynamics and I think I can shed some additional light on what you are getting at with this video. Sorry but this I going to get a bit long, but if you read through I hope to break it down quite simply. The "Reynolds number" is an important variable in fluid dynamics that can be directly correlated with turbulence (i.e. vorticy generation & thus air bubbles = defects). The equation for Reynolds number is as follows: Re = pVD/ų , where p=density, V= velocity, D=diameter of pipe (gates/runner for casting), and ų is the dynamic viscosity of the fluid (also known as a fluids ability to resist flow). From this equation we can see that turbulence is directly proportional to each term in the equation (i.e. if velocity doubles, Reynolds number doubles). The parameter we have the biggest control over in greensand casting are going to be velocity and diameter of the gates and runner. The trap you have employed effectively reduces the velocity of the aluminum entering the casting, thus reducing turbulence. Also, increasing the diameter of the gates to a greater diameter than which the metal enters the gate initially will also effectively reduce velocity from conservation of momentum. I could go on but I think I'll create a channel this summer and dive into more detail there.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I’m on my phone so I’ll be short 😀 I don’t think you can ramp the runner enough to make a difference in the speed the metal enters the mold. What we want to prevent is that “jetting” effect that world occur if your runner simply enters the part.

  • @sdunca4864
    @sdunca48645 жыл бұрын

    Please continue your learning videos- Bravo SW! Now seriously- the Navy Foundry Manual is free to download- and has a whole section of gating and risering for this... I like the practical experimentations though! Keep it up and enjoy your trip!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Had a good trip but now it’s over ;-) thanks

  • @Uncle_Bucks_Forge
    @Uncle_Bucks_Forge5 жыл бұрын

    Man you are really getting deep into this casting stuff. I thought you were doing great before.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I know , it’s like a huge black hole that I can’t escape from

  • @bernardoalamos1961
    @bernardoalamos1961 Жыл бұрын

    Where to get that foam plug, ¿which material is it? Is it recommended to use it on larger castings? From my view, it seems like it reduces the amount of oxygen inside the mold, correct?

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    Жыл бұрын

    I had not watched that video in several years, I still find Andy's mold fascinating. I believe he was just using foam like this www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-NGX-F-250-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-SSE-R-10-XPS-Rigid-Foam-Board-Insulation-52DDNGX/315197962 Correct, the foam plug us there to insure that the metal is completely covering the sprue before the metal enters the mold. With it in place, it does not allow any air to be sucked into the mold during the pour. You might be interested in this video I made a few years later kzread.info/dash/bejne/aGilrrGnfNavkqg.html it talks about air getting sucked down the sprue

  • @donmittlestaedt1117
    @donmittlestaedt11173 жыл бұрын

    Thanks

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    You're more than welcome

  • @doc_sav
    @doc_sav4 жыл бұрын

    This is amazing info, and thanks for the referral to Andrew's channel. I have been wondering, does this mean that open top molds will be more prone to porosity, because it isn't a pressurized system?

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    Good question, I'll have to think about that for a sec. I think in general, a pressurized system is on that is full of metal, not sucking air into it. It also implies a system that is nearly free of turbulence. Finally, I believe that in a good pressurized system you'd be filling from the bottom up. Of course this last step isn't always possible (like with plaques). Most open mold pouring I've seen has a pretty poor face on the exposed/open surface. That's one reason I don't use this method. I think the idea of pouring metal directly in to the mold from a crucible above it is going to cause turbulence and as a result porosity. In a closed system, you do built pressure and force the metal against all of the sand surfaces. Too much pressure, like using soup cans to extend the height of the sprue and a vent tends to force the metal into the sand and give it a rougher surface.

  • @doc_sav

    @doc_sav

    4 жыл бұрын

    Those are helpful insights, thanks again.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@doc_sav I'm glad you think so, there a fair number that think I'm completely whacked 😆

  • @raydirkin9107
    @raydirkin91075 жыл бұрын

    Always appreciate you sharing with us Perry, we may be rookies but I think we're on the right path. Subbing to Andrews channel great he's got new videos I've watched yours 5 times each 😂 thanks bud.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Ray. I completely agree with you

  • @amgironworks9091
    @amgironworks90915 жыл бұрын

    I got a couple pictures that show that even the pros have issues with porosity. It was from a aluminium 36" pipe wrench it was busted so I cut it and revealed some really large holes in the middle of the wrench.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I’d love to see them sometime

  • @amgironworks9091

    @amgironworks9091

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb I have the. On my phone if there's a way for me to email or send them to you let me know

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    AMG Ironworks swdweeb@gmail.com

  • @AmateurRedneckWorkshop
    @AmateurRedneckWorkshop3 жыл бұрын

    Hello swdweeb I just came across your channel. I watch windy hill foundry all the time and that has gotten me interested in watching more casting videos. Like you I use green sand. I saw your video where you gave up on petrobond and went to greensand. Mrpete222 uses petrobond and gets some great looking castings so I was starting to wonder if I should have gone with petrobond. Anyway you got a new sub here.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    3 жыл бұрын

    Wonderful, thanks for letting me know. I've just recently got to know Clarke and he seems to be a great guy. There is no doubt that petrobond gives a great finish. I think with the sand I've got now I can get pretty darn close. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pniWuayspc_AfMY.html

  • @supersneakusa4492
    @supersneakusa4492 Жыл бұрын

    Very informative, just getting started .... you should teach on master class, get paid for your knowledge. Thanks so much !

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    Жыл бұрын

    Ha that's funny. I can't get free views on YT, how in the world am I going to get paid views? 😄😄 Seriously, thank you. I appreciate it.

  • @OldIronShops
    @OldIronShops5 жыл бұрын

    Off to study Andrews stuff

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    it's pretty cool.

  • @tobhomott
    @tobhomott5 жыл бұрын

    It looked to me like the surface of the wave coming back from the end of Andy's casting didn't *quite* crest over and roll over itself to entrain more bifilms. But I can definitely see how it would have if the aluminum had been going in there much faster! In addition to the surge trap's benefits, I think that is where the gate velocity correction factor Bob P mentioned in one of your videos comes into play - to slow the metal down once it's entering a mold cavity taller than... The height of a sessile drop? Something like that? Oh who knows, I'm still trying to digest all this bifilm stuff, same as you two. 😁 I'm definitely gonna try using a surge trap soon. Does the diameter of the spinny part have to be a certain size compared to the runner or anything like that? Anyhow, keep up the great work!

  • @JCSalomon

    @JCSalomon

    5 жыл бұрын

    “… to slow the metal down once it's entering a mold cavity“ which is no longer the pressurized sprue/runner system. The sprue and runners are “pressurized” in the sense that they are calculated to be exactly as large in cross-section as they need to be for the given metal flow rate, no larger. The part being cast will be sized according to the dimensions you want in the final piece, and so the metal is no longer constrained by the walls. To eliminate splashing and jetting, John Campbell says the flow rate entering the unpressurized cavity should be below the “critical velocity” of 20 in/s = 0.5 m/s. That speed relates to the “sessile drop height” of 0.5″: something falling under gravity will be moving at 20in/s after it falls the first ½″.

  • @andrewmartin4258

    @andrewmartin4258

    5 жыл бұрын

    The idea of the spinny part is to change direction slowly to prevent a reflection wave. I don't know the answer to your question but the logical guess is small enough to hold pressure on the system but large enough to not slow the flow except with head buildup. Perry says a tapered runner into the spin trap would restrict and start flow into the gate as the spin trap starts taking metal. I tried that but messed up the pour (couldn't keep the basin full) but there's something to learn so I'm posting that pour next.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Hey bud, I'm not aware of a size ratio for the surge trap. I haven't seen anything in Campbell's book.

  • @JCSalomon

    @JCSalomon

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb, I think we’ve both asked Bob that question, but he answers in his own time. Do you want to reach out to Dr Campbell directly, maybe?

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@JCSalomon I'd love to have conversations with Dr Campbell but I don;t have a way to contact him. I know that he's seen at least one of my videos but he's never commented.

  • @ArtByAdrock
    @ArtByAdrock5 жыл бұрын

    Great video buddy! So who’s the crappy vendor to not get the petrobond from? My source usually is always good except for packaging which you’ll see in my next vid 🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    I think it was the one I told you about. I’ll be nice and email it to you

  • @hansolo5967
    @hansolo59675 жыл бұрын

    Andrew's video... the problem was the speed of the metal. With the right contraption he could bring the speed down to an optimum number which would have resulted in a non-chaotic flow of metal into the casting. Thanks for the infos btw. How is your bottle opener going? :)

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Haven’t started it yet ;-) The problem with contraptions is the availability and desirability to the home guy. Cutting a surge trap is easier for me than finding and using something like a ceramic filter

  • @bigstackD
    @bigstackD5 жыл бұрын

    👍🏻😁.

  • @InsideTheMindOfMatt
    @InsideTheMindOfMatt5 жыл бұрын

    Great info thanks for sharing I'm heading over to Andews channel and check that out save travels I got something i'll be cooking up for you :)

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Oooo... looking forward to all of the above ;-)

  • @donniebrown2896
    @donniebrown28965 жыл бұрын

    Wow!!!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Yeah it is pretty cool ;-)

  • @victor440_
    @victor440_5 жыл бұрын

    With all that pausing I don't know how the matel didn't get hard lol. That was good thanks

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    To quote John and Paul, "yeah yeah yeah" ;-)

  • @dizzolve
    @dizzolve Жыл бұрын

    7:25 CHoo CHOo we see what's on yo mind

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    Жыл бұрын

    😄

  • @bigstackD
    @bigstackD5 жыл бұрын

    I’ll be back Poppa P 👌🏻!

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Hey ankle-biter, did you leave? ;-)

  • @emaglott
    @emaglott5 жыл бұрын

    great video and link to Andrew, will check it out. sw=software + dweeb is for software dweeb! I was wondering where that name came from.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    That’s it, I spent 30 years developing software or managing development teams. 😄 Thanks for the response, I couldn’t have done it without Andrew’s experiments

  • @ValueHunter7947
    @ValueHunter79475 жыл бұрын

    cool - casting 201 or 401 👍

  • @InsideTheMindOfMatt
    @InsideTheMindOfMatt5 жыл бұрын

    Also the foam plug was a ah ha moment for me after watching some of you know who's videos seeing a guy plugging the hole and the pulling the plug I was thinking how I could do that as a solo act and that is the answer

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Yeah I had the same thought when someone told me I needed to build a trap door. i thought how can I do that and still pour at the same time.

  • @carlericvonkleistiii2188

    @carlericvonkleistiii2188

    5 жыл бұрын

    That is exactly what was stumping me. My thought experiment solution was a "burst diaphragm" made of a thin sheet of the alloy being cast. I thought about a wax plug, but thought it would burn out instantaneously and that it would cause gas entrainment in the alloy. I may still try the burst diaphragm idea.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    5 жыл бұрын

    Certainly worth a try. I was pretty surprised at how well the foam seemed to lead the flow and not appear to be a factor in terms of entrainment

  • @robertgibson9619

    @robertgibson9619

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@swdweeb Have you tried contact pouring?. Would like to see a video of this being done, but cant find any vid's of how this is achieved in practice... Would be interesting to see contact pour with a trident gating setup.

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@robertgibson9619 No, I havent tried it. From my understanding... reading Campbell's mini casting handbook... it requires a crucible with a plug that can be pulled. It also requires some sort if standing tube to allow the sediment in lighter metal to fall below the opening in the tube. From what I've read, in light metal like aluminum, the oxides and other crap sink to the bottom of the crucible. Definitely want some way to prevent that from entering the mold.

  • @dizzolve
    @dizzolve Жыл бұрын

    13:40 does anyone else everytime they see these overflow basins think how phallic? lol

  • @swdweeb

    @swdweeb

    Жыл бұрын

    It’s an offset pouring basin Learning to Cast Metal Offset Pouring Basin kzread.info/dash/bejne/p5aVqNCHcZPFoNY.html not an overflow basin Huge difference; one is designed to provide a better pouring system with less porosity, the others is designed to deal with people that can’t pour I suppose if people look hard enough they can find phallicism in anything

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