Thank you guys for this incredible service and contribution to the community of Leica. I'm going back and re-watching videos from the past, and thoroughly enjoying them. This is completely unrelated, but I have to say this - it is weird seeing you guys on opposite sides after seeing so many videos of Josh on the right and David on the left. It's like stepping into a parallel universe, and I feel like I'm waiting for Josh to drop something... Keep up the great work!

One could argue that gear does not matter. However, gear can inspire you to go out and make photographs. Leica certainly does that for me. I just picked up the Leica 24-70 and am loving it. It is a nice compliment to my M lenses since I find the rendering of the 24-70 very pleasing. It is hard to describe but think of the 24-70 rendering as less-HDR version of the 24-90; dare I say it almost M like ...

Many were speculating the new 24-70 was a rebranded Sigma. Super happy you tested both.

@sromrell

3 жыл бұрын

If Leica were to work with a partner company to produce a L mount 100-400 ish lens, I for one would be ecstatic. Presently dealing with a sigma 100-400 that has focus issues. The QC means a lot, who likes getting a lemon out of the box?

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

And there are definitely differences, both in terms of build quality and optical performance.

@rumporridge1

2 жыл бұрын

Leica would never lend their name and rep to a rebrand.

Not every photo application needs an APO Summicron....glad to see the L mounts growing choices. Thanks

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Agree. The 24-70 ticks a lot of boxes for various photographic applications.

@bongpeninoy6313

Жыл бұрын

@@RedDotForum do you think by any chance that sl2 lines get the s5ii phase detect? thank you

Great episode that settled my decision. I have held back on the 24-90 due to weight / price ratio.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you found it helpful.

great episode again, so useful ! thanks !

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Our pleasure!

Great job reviewing, greetings from Portugal

this video will serve as a reference for a long time. you covered everything. amazing work

Please know, that you are greatly appreciated! Magnificent!

Does anyone know how the focus throw compares to the lumix 24-70 s-pro? im extremely frustrated with the focus throw on my s-pro so researching alternatives and cant find much info on the throw of the leica 24-70

Thanks for the very interesting insights! 👍👍 I shoot a lot of streets at night, so the choice should be obvious, BUT my subject is not always in the center, so the 24-90 as a main lens looks interesting (because to have the same I will still need to close the 2.8...) and the 90mm is very appreciable. But of course, the weight and 2.8 all the way of the 24-70 is tempting... Any thoughts about which one to use (for a Panasonic S1R body) ? 🤔

Thank you for sharing! Very informative indeed.

Awesome episode. Very informative

Absolutely wonderful comprehensive review clearing up any confusion and case use between the two similar zoom lenses

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

My biggest gripe with this lens, is that the focal length always unspools by itself as I'm walking with this, with the neck strap and hanging on my side. It's very annoying for the lens to always completely extend. Is there a Fix for this? (other than putting it in a bag)

Great video thanks for sharing. Thanks for your efforts, much appreciated.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

I hope this will be a full mid-pricepoint line-up with primes, even Elmarits. SL2-S and this are priced high, but acceptably high. The Art and S Pro are brilliant lens lines, not a compromise in any way when viewed against Zeiss and Canon/Nikon. The S Pro = perfect compatibility (focus throw, smoothness), and the Art = best price-to-performance ratio. Even so, some special studs in the stable could go a long way.

Great episode!

Thank you for the very informative comparison. One question remains open to me, though: Most reviews claim the 24-70 does not need o.i.s. as the SL-2 offers it in-body - is that true in comparison to the lens stabilization of the 24-90? To my experience, lense image stabilization works better for handheld shots at long focal lengths than the in-body-stabilization of the SL-2. Would this compensate for the lower light sensitivity at f/4 on the 24-90?

Finally was able to get my hands on 24-70 and to my pleasant surprise it zooms in the right direction, unlike the other SL zooms, at least in the direction all professional motion picture lenses zoom, This muscle memory is mandatory for cine use. Thanks Leica!

Nice (long) video… learned a lot! A back up camera for me is the Q2!! Cheers..

@AlejandroGonzalez-AGS

2 жыл бұрын

…and I’m taking it with me to Antártica in a couple years! Also, Jose is the man…un abrazo amigo!

Thank you for this topic

All of you run the best Leica Forum in the WORLD.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Very kind you to say!

Did you guys turn off in camera correction on the SL?

I'm "only" thru the first hour...but two questions remain: 1.Optically, does the Sigma contain the same number of lens elements and groups? 2. Does the SL-Series automatically apply distortion correction to its files vs. Sigma/Panasonic which would have to be corrected in post? 3. Does the lack of external switches (on the Leica) means one can manually tweak focus anytime without changing to MF in the menu?

Love the Jose Cam

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you like it.

So late to the game! Thank you always for the very informative videos. I would have liked to know about focus breathing since I am considering this lens for video use. In that regard, the Panasonic lens was fantastic.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

We don't usually test focus breathing, but that's a great suggestion for the future. Thanks!

Thanks for this video. I was shooting the SL2-S with only M lenses I was looking to buy one SL lens for auto focus. I was worried about it being the same as a Sigma lens but after seeing your video it's clearly different. Based on this video I will be buying this lens this week. Thank you for all this work you are doing. It's fantastic and I'm a big fan

The Sigma outperforms the Lumix 24-70 S Pro? Are you seriuos? I've both and use them on my SL2-S. The Lumix is way better than the Sigma in every ways: corner to corner sharpness, distorsion, contrast, AF speed. Maybe you tried a really bad copy.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

We tested all the lenses thoroughly, and the sample came from a reputable source that tests their equipment regularly. The Leica and Sigma lenses definitely outperformed the Lumix S Pro. If falling back on the reasoning of "we just had a bad copy", this goes to my point exactly. If you're a customer buying a lens, why would you want to play the good copy / bad copy game at all? Wouldn't you want it to work as expected? After dealing with countless Leica AF lenses from the SL, S and TL lines, we've never seen a "bad copy." Each one performs exactly as expected.

@slows728

2 жыл бұрын

I used both as well. The Lumix is the best lens, no contest. Better color, better sharpness and better rendering.

@the_black_douglas9041

2 жыл бұрын

I suspect bias in this review. I guess the name of the channel tells you everything you need to know.

@johnkasianowicz6536

2 жыл бұрын

PETER LANZ & SLOWS, perhaps you could provide images from well-controlled controlled tests of the Lumix lens and compare them to Josh’s tests of the Leica (made in Japan) equivalent. In other RDF videos, Josh showed how he tests lenses. He knows what he’s doing. I’d be curious to see the comparison of the two lenses. I’ve seen some of Peter’s large prints in person. He clearly knows the art and mechanics of photography and how Leica equipment performs in real-world situations.

@johnkasianowicz6536

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_black_douglas9041 I’ve dealt with Peter and Josh for about 3/4 of a year. They sell Leica camera equipment (and other brands of accessories), but have been quite frank about the gear they offer.

Brilliant episode! Your clarity and logic are refreshing. I also chose the Leica 24-70 due first to size and weight and secondly then saved the cost stretch. Beautifully made. No regrets. Physical/mechanical features, optical performance and native Leica electronic interface etc. just made sense to me having paid for Leica quality SL2 body!!

Taking SL with 24/70 to hiking? :) That was a good one.

Please do an episode on the Leica D Lux 7.

The production value of these videos just keeps increasing. Please keep using the new camera window for when questions are asked. As a non-native English speaker, seeing the person talking helps with understanding.

@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Jesse! :)

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

We do keep working to improve the production quality with each and every show, so thank you for noticing. And glad you like the Jose Cam!

@jessekoskinen

3 жыл бұрын

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hi Matt!

@manilamartin1001

2 жыл бұрын

Me too. Watching from philippines. We have a couple of leica stores here.

@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom

2 жыл бұрын

@@manilamartin1001 thanks and welcome!

Is it possible to include the R 80/1.4 in the upcoming 75mm episode? Thanks!

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

We'll see. :)

@terry_shum

3 жыл бұрын

@@RedDotForum That's great! Thanks for bringing those wonderful episodes to us regularly.

To make Porsche 918 they need to do some Cayenne (Volkswagen Tuareg) and Macan (Audi Q5). I’m agree with Leica to use good development and facilities from others to make budget friendly products in order to reach their business goals. That’s why we do have a Leica medium format ecosystem, awesome lenses and a brand that last for centuries. The same good alliances made possible to have sensor image stabilization, awesome EVF and so many other things. Good for Leica. Good for us.

I would like to know if Leica’s lenses linear manual focus is working on Lumix S cameras, it should be compatible since this feature is implemented on Panasonic bodies since the start of L Mount alliance …

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Great question. We don't have a Lumix S series camera to test, but diving deeper into L-Mount alliance compatibility with different combinations is a really good idea.

@redbit6182

3 жыл бұрын

@@RedDotForum Thanks for replying, I totally agree, it's worth to investigate, it seems to me that cross compatibility is key for the alliance and I find linear MF mode to be an awesome feature, especially for video shooters

Did they ever review it or comment on it for video image/quality?

24:30 Both lenses are fantastic, and I'm uncertain whether considering its weight is an appropriate or relevant aspect. Image quality should be a key factor when selecting a lens. I would personally never choose an inferior lens because it is a little lighter or vice versa. 37:58 Additionally, Leica is Leica; we don't need to know who manufactures each camera part. We purchase the camera because we have confidence in the final product that Leica delivers.

Hey guys, your forum talks are awesome and super informative. But a little bit long. Well, it's clear to me, it's a forum talk and now how to video or so, but > two hours? "Unfortunately" the talks are so interesting and informative, can't stop watching once started… 😄🙌

What is the timeframe on when it hits the shelf? Thanks

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

The lens is currently shipping.

@ronanderson9960

3 жыл бұрын

@@RedDotForum thanks for the information! Love the videos! Thanks

I really think barrel focused zoom lenses are beneath Leica. The real difference isn’t where it’s assembled, but the design and where the glass ingots came from (Leica in Germany) and the formula of that glass, which is proprietary and can’t be duplicated by anyone else. The performance of the glass is based on its ingredients and formulas and many ingredients are restricted in countries like Japan under environmental laws example lead cannot be added to Japanese lens but it remains possible in the German glass, and there is no real substance that can replace what lead does in the formulas. Coatings are a cheap way around are not real substitutes for the glass.

Thanks for doing this- I've been scouring the internet for a comparison like this since I saw the product announcement! Purely out of curiosity, how did the Canon 24-70 compare optically with the Panasonic, Sigma and Leicas?

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Josh gave up testing of the Canon due to the abysmally slow and clunky AF performance on the SL2. To him, this disqualified the lens as not being a useable option for real-world photography.

Maybe Leica can make a first party m to so close up / zoom adapter.

Trust you guys, however, every review i’ve read or watched rates the Pana 24-70 over the Sigma 24-70 and, I like both glass systems, use both across a range of other lenses on the L Mount, ART and Pro, don’t have the 24-70 which is why i’m watching this vid. Confused and concerned now about what to believe. 🤔

I could not find the 75mm video...

@rumporridge1

2 жыл бұрын

That’s an excellent video too.

Seems like the chat was stopped before they did.. Question... if one already has a Q2 and aQ2m would a Leica Q be a good back up to either one?

@RS-Amsterdam

3 жыл бұрын

Of course, I chose the Q over the Q2 for better low light performance. You don't need more than 24 MP for FF which is the sweet spot, unless you are shooting images for billboards (which you don't)

@gewglesux

3 жыл бұрын

@@RS-Amsterdam Thanks for the reply.... I'll have a look around. I'm in no hurry. I do see that the prices are coming down. Thanks again.

@andrejkorenc

3 жыл бұрын

Also the color scheme on Q is completely different than on Q2, so these 2 cameras really offer extremely different image quality.

@gewglesux

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrejkorenc Thank you so very much for the reply. I didn't know that.

@andrejkorenc

3 жыл бұрын

@@gewglesux Now you do, you're welcome.

The new Leica lens is not made in Germany but in Japan. Probably from Sigma. And that is why Leica is able to sell it cheaper. But that doesn't mean that the Leica lens is an exact copy of the Sigma. Obviously the 24-70mm Leica lens is made to Leica's specifications. The same with the SL2 and SL2-S. Most of the technology from those cameras weren't developed by Leica but by a Japanese manufacturer.

How big is the AF speed between sigma and leica 24-70?

@fellowcitizen

3 жыл бұрын

Josh stated that there was no perceptible difference, though he did not measure it. He said to stay-tuned for an AF testbench in the future.

On my Leica SL2-S with the 24-70mm f/2.8 look sharper than the Sigma Primes that I own I Series 35mm f/2, 45mm f/2,8, 65mm f/2, Panasonic 50mm f/1.8 at widest open aperture. But they all weigh less, Yes they are cheaper but I use them for Street Photography, and they are the lowest tier lenses not Art on the Sigma Side and Pro on the Panasonic. Cheers!

SL24-90 is best!

Video @ 1:27:39 - "as you start to stop-down, the differences become negligible" - There you go folks, take care of these minuscule result differences by just bumping up the ISO on these fantastic sensors, and save a bunch of cash in the process. After-all, no matter the quality of build, EVERY modern complex zoom begins to exhibit some issues as they age. i.e. Fog/Haze

Hopefully we can see a Leica Vario Elmarit SL 14-24mm/F2.8 (DG DN) ASPH in future too 😂😂😂

@MelonAMango

Жыл бұрын

I'll let go of the Sigma 14-24mm in a heartbeat for Leica build and the slightly faster boot up 😂

I don't know - I buy an SL2 for the image quality. Why compromise? That said, the 50 is freaking amazing - like, amazing. I would work around it's "limitations".

This video could be done in half the time. Besides that thx

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for tuning in. We allow 2 hours for all of our Red Dot Forum Camera talk live episodes in order to cover the topic at hand and answer as many user questions as possible.

7:22

Nice to know the 24-70mm lens hood fits the 24-90mm, and equally great is that the 24-90mm hood fits the 24-70mm…….

Oh, for ***** sake, just call it like it is, and what it is - it's a lens based on Sigma's 24-70/2.8 DN, it offers identical optical properties and is manufactured by Sigma. It's not a "rebranded" Sigma lens, it's a "rehoused" Sigma lens. Identical optical construction, electronics and AF motors inside a different housing. The left guy at some point says "... it's still a Leica handmade product" - no it most definitely is not! That's why it lacks Leica's signed certificate of quality that you get with REAL Leica lenses, designed by Leica and made by Leica. This lens is NOT designed by Leica, nor is it made by Leica, unless Leica just started to "handmade" their products in JAPAN with this lens being the first product of such. Made to "Leica's stringent quality control"? I guess, but that really doesn't mean anything - Leica products do not tend to break down less than other products, maybe it's even vice versa. So it's basically the same as with Panasonic's "Certified by Leica" stamps on their lenses - marketing mambo jumbo. Watching you two trying to avoid the obvious really is painfull. It's either black, or white, so stop calling it "a red shade of grey." 'Cause it ain't.

@SpruceUp612

2 ай бұрын

It’s basically a Sigma ART “ART” lens. Whatever they did to improve the lens seemed to work, is it worth $1800 more? Not really but in the same way other flagship 24-70s from other brands are over $2k, so the final price point isn’t that bad. Is the Sony Gmaster or Nikon 24-70 worth $2400 compared to the $999 Sigma? It’s all the same diminishing returns with everything. The Leica version sitting at $2800 isn’t that much in the world of 24-70s. I personally use the Panasonic version.

went to buy the sigma after watching this...at 58:27 when he said focusing speed is similar. =)

I think there are a very large number of SL shooters who DO use other manufacturers L-Mount lenses. Afraid you guys do need to take this on. I have a Sigma 14mm L-mount prime and the L-mount 105mm, 2.8 macro. Both fantastic for my photography. If there were Leica SL natives, of course I would use these but have no choice...

@sromrell

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I love my 105mm Sigma, but if Leica made the TL APO 55-135 full frame It would rarely come off the camera.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

And this why Leica set up the L-Mount Alliance in the first place. They know they can't roll out every possible lens that photographers will want, or need, for their work. By allowing Sigma and Panasonic to make native L-Mount lenses, these gaps can be filled. Ultimately, a larger L-Mount ecosystem benefits everyone.

@BrainDesmo

2 жыл бұрын

@@RedDotForum Agreed. The alliance part is key.

You're sitting the wrong way round 🤣🤣🤣

So what’s next? A Leica 70-200 f2.8?

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Anything is possible.

It is Made in Japan what means Made by Sigma. No doubt about that.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Which is why we did head-to-head testing with the Sigma 24-70 and showed the results. From the build quality to the imaging performance, the Leica 24-70 was superior. If the lens is indeed made by Sigma in Japan, it is being made to Leica's higher specifications.

Want to see some of Jose’s pics as well.

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

You can see some of Jose's pictures here: www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/05/whats-in-our-camera-bags-2021-edition/

遮光罩太难看了 换成圆形的可以吗

Lenses are for taking photos. I have watched you ramble on for one hour and so far no photos although you did at one stage refer to the Sigma lens as trash.

24-90 vs 24-70 tests are a bit flawed due to f-stop differences. You’d need to look at the same values to further inform your conclusions. Across ALL the focal lengths... There’s also bokeh quality and LoCA differences that have been noted in other early reviews. You explored this a bit but you'd need foreground bokeh too.

@johnkasianowicz6536

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps you didn’t watch the entire video. See the comparison between the 24-90 and 24-70 starting around 1:26:51.

To the guy in the purple shirt. You’re always right aren’t you? Whenever your colleague says something you always try and correct him or infer that he’s wrong. Most people would take one of those SL2’s and knock your block off. Get some fucking humility.

Obviously this is the rebranded Sigma for a much higher price.... ;-(((( (Leica very often in history created such zoom lenses, ....

They’re making this in Japan isn’t a sigma with Leica branding

@RedDotForum

3 жыл бұрын

Watch the episode. :) These feel like very different lenses, and based on our testing, the Leica does outperform the Sigma optically.

made in Japan so its made by Panasonic then ?

@jean-pierreauger1837

3 жыл бұрын

No Sigma

made by sigma

Really wish you guys would cut to the chase and make these posts a lot shorter in length. It is like watching water boil.

@SpruceUp612

2 ай бұрын

The series has “Talk” in the name and is live, it’s a podcast, unless you were watching live when you commented then I somewhat understand. Otherwise, it only takes two seconds to fast forward to the charts and sharpness comparison in the video. I do get annoyed when videos don’t get to the point but that’s not what this series is about.

I recommend you start watching the video at 45min. The intro is long and doesn’t bring much info. IMO