In the Book the Acheron was an American Ship (based on the USS Constitution), they changed it to French in the movie so American audiences wouldn't be confused on whom to cheer for

@jedighostbear4401

3 жыл бұрын

Also in the book the name was USS Norfolk instead of Acheron

@wolf310ii

3 жыл бұрын

The ship in the book was not based on the USS Constitution, it was based on the USS Essex

@3ggh3ad

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolf310ii i stand corrected

@MatsM1

3 жыл бұрын

@NC A i cant remember what time this movie is set, but wouldnt it allso be possible for the ship to be built in French Louisianna?

@wolf310ii

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatsM1 Its 1812 and also they said in the movie the Archeron was build in Boston

The telescope didn't let him see through the fog... The ship just so happened emerged from the fog at that point

@MrFlashpoint1978

3 жыл бұрын

This is exactly what I wanted to say.

@anoninunen

3 жыл бұрын

Telescope of Fog Dispersion - Doubles sight radius, removes atmospheric obstructions

@rashadabdullah9769

3 жыл бұрын

Yea, exactly what i thought too.

@SukacitaYeremia

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder how big a man o' war from a mile away would look like and whether one would need a telescope to get a better look at it. Vince seem to imply it won't be needed...

@wulfheort8021

Жыл бұрын

@@SukacitaYeremia That was a frigate though, quite a bit smaller than a man-o-war, which would be a ship of the line.

He never said he saw the boat once. He said he saw it being built. He may have seen it everyday for weeks. The ship was a privateer which means it's a privately owned ship which may have been built anywhere. Also this is the early 19th century. Social standing or class was a huge barrier to career progression regardless how talented or gifted a person might be.

@judithweiss6727

3 жыл бұрын

this

@jeffkiser5996

3 жыл бұрын

One reason the British wanted to attack Baltimore in the War of 1812 was because privateers were outfitted there and the Brits wanted to burn that city to the ground, more so than Washington DC. Excellent points

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

The Acheron is a “French” frigate not a privateer. The reason it is being built in Boston is that the story is set during the war of 1812. The nationality of the ship was changed because the movie was financed by Hollywood.

@andrews2990

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidwright7193 The Acheron is a privateer. They literally say so during the movie.

@chrismayo4902

3 жыл бұрын

They were the ships carpenters’ and carpenters mate’s, and deeper than that’ if I recall correctly he lived next to the Boston ship yard where the “Acheron” was built’ so most likely being a carpenter and living next to the ship yard one could assume he worked in said shipyard doing carpentry work or apprenticing there as well’ it’s the details that make the story

The Captain is shown being 'friendly' with the 'young gentlemen' (or midshipmen) who were officers, NOT with the crew. On tall British ships in time of war, an officer of the watch would be expected to call an alert without hesitation. The crew would be called to quarters and stand by their guns EVERY MORNING at dawn because it was the most vulnerable moment of their day. You did not know what you could expect to find on the horizon (or closer) when the sun came up. Better safe than sorry. In the movie, the young lieutenant, Hollum, gets into trouble for hesitating at calling 'beat to quarters' when he thinks he sees a shape in the fog. Peter Weir is to great a director to put BS in his movie.

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

A ship in the early 19th century wouldn’t beat to quarters every dawn as that involves clearing the hammocks (and the off watch worked 14 hours yesterday and have had 12-4 to sleep) dousing all the fires (including the galley fire, so no cooking during an alert hence no breakfast) and dismantling most of the living space in the ship. Now the chances of an enemy sail being unnoticed within the 1-400m effective range of those guns is virtually nil so they aren’t going to do that. Later in the 19th century and through to WWII the practice makes sense. As the process is much less disruptive (crew have a permanent bunk in a cabin or crew quarters, galley fires may still be out but you can use steam to cook, the guns are in dedicated fighting compartments not your living space) and the ranges of the guns at 6-20 miles mean a much bigger chance of an immediate engagement.

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

A ship in the early 19th century wouldn’t beat to quarters every dawn as that involves clearing the hammocks (and the off watch worked 14 hours yesterday and have had 12-4 to sleep) dousing all the fires (including the galley fire, so no cooking during an alert hence no breakfast) and dismantling most of the living space in the ship. Now the chances of an enemy sail being unnoticed within the 1-400m effective range of those guns is virtually nil so they aren’t going to do that. Later in the 19th century and through to WWII the practice makes sense. As the process is much less disruptive (crew have a permanent bunk in a cabin or crew quarters, galley fires may still be out but you can use steam to cook, the guns are in dedicated fighting compartments not your living space) and the ranges of the guns at 6-20 miles mean a much bigger chance of an immediate engagement.

@amycollins6007

3 жыл бұрын

Hollum was an unlucky midshipman, not yet a lieutenant

@OFKVT

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, Jack is friendly to the midshipmen because they are officers. And as for his conduct with the crew, he is normally harsh for a captain of that time ordering punishment against the sailors and the scene where he talks to Hollum about fraternizing with the crew. Jack and Stephen balance each other out perfectly and often have largely differing opinions on topics aboard the ship. Tiny complaints aside, this movie is amazing.

@mckenzie.latham91

3 жыл бұрын

In the book, the captain is more friendly with the crew because of an incident in his service past as a young officer (on another ship) where an infraction had him demoted down to crewman for a few months... as such he developed more of a friendly and sympathetic nature with the average crew as much as the officers. But as shown by the flogging scene, the captain was not going to ignore protocol or respect for the chain of command.

Also, it's funny that you commented about Jack's friendliness towards the midshipmen (who were also officers) but disregarded the later scenes where Jack has a sailor flogged just because he failed to salut an officer. This movie really portraits correctly the distance between officers and non-officers class.

@mikewalrus4763

3 жыл бұрын

The midshipmen were NOT officers, but they were Young Gentlemen, expected to be officers IF they managed to pass their exams! This is the truth about the social structure at the time (tain't changed too much even today) Most likely the midshipmen were on that particular vessel due to a favour owed by the Captain to the boys father for whatever reason. However unlike the majority of the army they could not just buy their commission - they actually had to qualify by passing certain examinations (as too where artillary officers and engineers)

@christophermercaldi8616

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikewalrus4763 I agree that they were not officers yet, but they were training to be and were expected to behave as officers should, and the crew also respected that by treating them as officers too.

@TzunSu

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikewalrus4763 They are technically officers, and they all stand watch. As an example, they cannot be flogged, but they were routinely spanked for offences, since officers are never flogged. In Aubrey's case his midshipmen is a mixed bunch, he comes from a poor background so not a lot of expected favors owed. The point you make about their commissions is important, although it's worth remembering that many extremely young Lieutenants and Captains had been writted up as crew long before serving, which means their obligatory years in service before examining, and that it was very common for well connected applicants to have a very friendly room in which where to pass the oral examination. Miles ahead of the army customs of simply trusting whoever was willing to pay the most though of course...

@davidwright7193

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikewalrus4763 That depends on who you call an officer. Midshipmen are not commissioned officers, holding authority directly from the crown, but are warrant officers holding authority via a warrant from the navy board. Incidentally Stephen as ships surgeon is a warrant officer. Midshipmen are in training for a commission as a lieutenant, some will have already passed an examination for lieutenant and thus able to navigate and act as a watch keeping officer. A young gentleman is a boy too young to hold a midshipman’s warrant but sent to sea to gain the sea time needed to hold a lieutenants commission and were supernumerary, often they were actually in school not on the ship.

@onawhim9079

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed!

Master and Commander is one of the greatest and most historically accurate movies ever made.

@Inaf1987

3 жыл бұрын

Authentic, not accurate, the Captain is based off Thomas Cochrane, I'd have a movie on his life in exchange for a sequel.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, it was really enjoyable to watch. It totally deserved its score of 9/10

@thorne1239

3 жыл бұрын

@@Inaf1987 If they made a true account about Cochrane's career, no one would believe it. He was an absolute maniac haha.

@greggrobinson5116

3 жыл бұрын

Here comes the buzzkill: The Books Are Even Better!

@JB17521or

2 жыл бұрын

@@Inaf1987 its not based on him, it was inspires by him. The story is purely fictional. But its realistic, authentic, as you correctly said.

The trap they sprung was based off something that actually happened on the ship called HMS Speedy.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, a lot of my viewers took the time to better inform me on the point about the whaler scene. So I have to admit I was wrong on that.

@ksk3368

3 жыл бұрын

that was just switching flags doe

@mikewalrus4763

3 жыл бұрын

Captained by the arguably greatest frigate captain of all times - Lord Cochrane, though some say the gratest frigate Captain was Sir Andrew Pellew - funnily enough all from the same era!

@ksk3368

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikewalrus4763 HMS Speedy was a sloop of war

@actaeon6463

3 жыл бұрын

Your comment is accurate, but only with respect to the size of the ships and how the battle played out once they were alongside each other. I think the video's point went to the ruse de guerre of disguising the Surprise as a whaler -- something that's difficult to do without all the davits, and which any sailor of the time would immediately recognize. And in that regard, the Speedy's taking of the Gamo sheds little light on the subject, since Cochrane did not disguise the Speedy or otherwise try to lure the Gamo into close quarters -- he straight up closed on the Gamo, realizing that his small sloop, if it survived long enough to get alongside, would lie beneath the enemy's guns, while his own guns would still be effective. That's also how Aubrey did it in Master and Commander (the book).

I think the French accent was not exaggerated. This is the height of Nationalist Imperial Napoleonic France. This captain probably learned English begrudgingly and would intentionally hold onto his pronunciation keys. There are notes of the English doing this as well in order to annoy French men when speaking French.

@anttitheinternetguy3213

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Also back then the teachers might have not been too good at language themselves: after all only way For them to hear actual english was either bringing in actual british person or going to britan. Nowadays we have had audio examples of english language in our schools For half a decade. It is quite believable For french speaking aristocrat being better in writing english rather than pronouncing it

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

Mr Bush in the Hornblower novels is a hilarious example of this

@klaykid117

3 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of Japanese people speaking English and anime when they don't know what they're saying and just read the way it's pronounced off the script

@makb_the_striker

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, but the point is, the French were the international lingua franca like English nowadays, so IRL french Capitan would probably be speaking french, coz other captains of "civilized" countries definitely knew french.

@dominique4700

2 жыл бұрын

A very beautiful film, very realistic, but you have to know that it does not follow reality, like many American films elsewhere. the protagonist's English ship pursues a French ship. In the original work he was American and therefore had nothing to do with the wars of Napoleon. Thank you to the Americans for twisting history in their direction.

Whalers in the 19th century had rendering equipment on board and could and did process blubber into oil at sea. If you get a chance visit the Charles W. Morgan at Mystic Seaport.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho man, I really hope I do get this chance, that would be cool.

@rhysroberts3010

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 this is why they have so much smoke, because they are pretending to be processing the blubber

@chincotaco

3 жыл бұрын

Ha was just shouting this at my TV. You note correctly the reasons why the early whaling industry (including the Native Americans who started the practice in the Western world) focused on near-shore hunting. But the big advancement in the whaling industry was the development in shipboard processing, which allowed whaler fleets to hunt much further afield. Trips would take years at a time, and would go far into the Pacific and Indian oceans. The smoke is from simulating the "try-pots" used to render blubber on-ship. Moby Dick has some excellent scenes describing how the whales were flensed at sea, and "Leviathan" by Eric Jay Dolin is an incredibly interesting history of the industry. (Cheers for the great content btw, my nitpicks aside.)

@TzunSu

3 жыл бұрын

@@chincotaco Such incredible detail! Patrick O'Brian spent a long time sick as a child, reading intently of the sea, and it really shows sometimes.

@nalvarado65

Жыл бұрын

@@chincotaco Ah, Melville; " Give not thyself up, then, to fire, lest it invert thee, deaden thee; as for the time it did me. There is a wisdom that is woe; but there is a woe that is madness. And there is a Catskill eagle in some souls that can alike dive down into the blackest gorges, and soar out of them again and become invisible in the sunny spaces. And even if he for ever flies within the gorge, that gorge is in the mountains; so that even in his lowest swoop the mountain eagle is still higher than other birds upon the plain, even though they soar." After Ishmael is hypnotized by the crew rendering the blubber below deck and nearly capsizing the Pequod.

this video is a great example of WHY people need to learn the history behind what they are taught instead of just memorizing processes and jargon and apply them. Lawyers, engineers, economists, technicians; it doesn't matter: everybody needs to learn the history of their discipline.

In the age of sail, one of the best places to shoot a ship was the rear as that was a massive weakpoint, shot will fly down the length of the ship causing huge damage to the structure, crew and cannons

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting to know. Thanks for the information.

@prich0382

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 Term is called raking

@Solidboat123

3 жыл бұрын

Victory put a treble-shotted broadside through the stern of Bucentaure as she cut the line at Trafalgar. That single broadside knocked out around a third of the crew and pretty much rendered the French flagship combat ineffective.

@julianwaugh968

3 жыл бұрын

Nelson used this strategy of cutting the line. So to be clear. Spanish and French ships form a line of battle, expecting a broadside to broadside shoot out However the British approached them at a perpendicular angle thereby Giving a narrow target but as a british frigate would pass between the bow of one and stern of another they could deliver from port and starboard sequenced shots at the enemy and under relatively safe conditions So Brits have saved the day , 1 Frog and a spick from HMS Dorking And you can hear the crowd going wild , I cant quite hear what they are screaming something like aaarrrggggh! It is shocking to see that these ships were the height of technology of the time and used for war, look how after so few years we have advanced in our abilities

@harkonen1000000

3 жыл бұрын

A back rake is ideal because there's no prow to deflect the shot. Forward rake is usually easier to set up (it's called "crossing the T"), and is fairly devastating, though not to that extent.

In the age of sail, firing at the bow or stern was the goal when possible because they had little to no protection compared to the thick hull on the sides with the gun batteries. It was called ''crossing the T'' like you see in the end battle because roundshot could go all the way through the length of the ship and kill and damage far more. Also the smoke is the pretend rendering of whale fat. And the whalers you showed are at least a generation later. The frigate could easily been sold out of service to whalers, there was less distinction between civilian and military ships or technology in those days

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I feel like I am learning a lot from those comments. I am glad I caught the attention of a few people who knows a great deal about history. (ps: great user name)

@gawainethefirst

3 жыл бұрын

The Acheron in this story, is a sister ship to the USS Constitution, the oldest wooden warship still afloat. Though not historically accurate (the fates of all the US frigates of that class are accounted for), A French crew on an American built frigate could’ve been possible due to the fact that during the Napoleonic wars Both British and French navies would capture American ships and press the ships and crews into service. It’s kind of why we built those ships to begin with, to discourage that practice.

@kennethfharkin

3 жыл бұрын

Additionally, shooting down the long axis of a vessel made it far easier to hit something critical like a powder magazine. You also had the benefit of being able to fire the entire weight of your broadside against the enemy's stern or bow chasers which were not only fewer in number but lesser in weight. Going side to side was the norm, and particularly beneficial to the English vessels of the day given the traditionally higher rate of fire said vessels obtained. English vessels typically drilled gunnery more than most other fleets, especially the French at the time. Not to speak less of the French as a people but the Revolution and rise of Napoleon had taken a very heavy toll on the French naval officer class, which impacted performance to a great extent.

@clintlarvenz2570

3 жыл бұрын

@@gawainethefirst now that the hms victory has been restored it is the oldest afloat, the constitution is the oldest in service

@Uguccione1409

3 жыл бұрын

@@clintlarvenz2570 HMS Victory sits in a dry dock since decades. It's not afloat at all.

Neat reaction - I really liked your modern take as regards current navigation, repairs, signals etc. as compared to the old. There's a couple of historical aspects I feel you're a bit out on though, so I'll just pop a comment as to that. First regarding brutal captains and floggings in the Napoleonic navy. Whilst the articles of war on an R.N Ship did lay down some grievous punishments, in practice they gave captains great flexibility in choosing lesser punishments. These could range from stopping defaulter's grog, making them pump ship, be held in irons or flogged. Punishments of death were forbidden until a court martial with a board of captains could be convened. In practice the general day to day dangers and demanding skill of sailing a ship meant that both the captain, officers and his men were - forgive the pun - all in the same boat and a good working relationship had to be maintained for the efficient execution of handling a ship in all sorts of perilous circumstances. Old ships hands could be tough on their fellow lower deck men for shirking or unruly conduct as it meant their having to bear more of the load, and because it jeopardised the safety of the ship. Where there was a bad captain - or because the crews were paid late or kept on board for another cruise without leave - mutinies frequently took place when the boat was in shore with a deputation presenting the issue to the port admiral. Solutions were usually found where the demands were addressed, bad ships captains put 'on the beach' and ships crews broken up and scattered through other ships. That's not to say there weren't tyrannical captains, or injustices and people hung at the yardarm... it's just that it happened a lot less than Hollywood makes out. The old guard of Captains in Aubrey's time generally held that one had to be a great seaman first, and you weren't required to be a gentleman or trained in a naval academy, and a good captain got to know his men by name and feel one of them, and look after their concerns by settling grievances they might have, arranging formal letters to be written for them, etc. This changed in time in the 19th century as a more rigid, hierarchical class of officers took over. The new breed of officers tended to look down on their crew more and view them as a lesser breed, but also tended to be more careful as to their men's health and less inclined to administer physical punishment. Aubrey straddles the two eras of Captains. There's a fascinating book on British naval history called 'The Command of the Ocean' by N. A. M. Roger I can heartily approve of. It also reveals how many times the Dutch embarrassingly kicked our arses in battle, but we don't talk about that! All the best and thanks again. :)

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

I am really glad you decided to pop up your comment, it was very interesting to read. And you really took the time to well explain your arguments, and in a very civilized way, which I am very thankful. Maybe one day I’ll take the time to read the book you just recommended, it sounds very interesting.

American movie, Vince? With respect, book written by a Brit, about a Brit, directed by an Aussie, acted by a Kiwi. Captains not participating in the sword fights, Vince? With respect, Horatio Nelson lost an eye in one battle, lost a leg in another, personally took the swords off of several enemy captains in hand-to-hand combat, and was shot in the face at Trafalgar, where his entire fleet made it back home just fine in spite of his having died with half his skull shot off, as did Magellan's and Cook's, both captains also having died in hand-to-hand combat. Shooting at seagulls, Vince? That far out at sea? That bird was an albatross. Shot at by a land soldier who knew no better wanting fowl for supper. This was a foreshadowing literary reference to the "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner.' Do sailors of the Canadian Navy not revere the albatross ? Again, with respect.

@Solidboat123

Жыл бұрын

He was a Royal Marine officer, not a land soldier. Personally I always took that scene to be nothing more than him trying to shoot the Albatross for sport, much like people do with ducks or pheasants

@CareerKnight

5 ай бұрын

Sport or food, probably both. Definitely not for pest control.

@eddhardy1054

4 ай бұрын

Mate, Nelson lost an arm not a leg and he wasn't shot in the face at Trafalgar. The shot went through his torso and severed his spine.

In the books, the captain is more friendly with his crew because as a young officer (like 13 or 14 years old) he was temporarily demoted to being a regular sailor for several months as a punishment for some infraction. So he was more sympathetic to the common men.

@cathywilde2756

2 жыл бұрын

I think he was a bit older, because in the book the infraction was 'venery' or sexual misconduct. Jack was a bit of a lad when he was younger!

@Roheryn100

Жыл бұрын

@@cathywilde2756 Yes, he smuggled a woman on board.

Thanks for the reactions, actually in battles, the best position to attack a ship was to get perpendicular to the enemy’s at the stern. There were few guns and a cannon ball could travel the entire length of the boat if it penetrated from the stern, Also there would be at most 2 cannon at the stern, so it was the safest place to attack. Good point on the lack of Davits to pretend to be a whaler. But you were mistaken on other points. Whalers hunted whales in the open sea, and sliced the flesh and fat(fletched) from the bones at sea. Then it was put in huge pots and the fat was rendered to whale oil. That is why the Surprise was Smoking, to represent the boiling rendering pots, not a distress signal.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho, great to know, thank you for let it me know. And I am glad you enjoyed this review.

I really don't think the officer of the watch sounding the alarm durign a wartime mission counts as bypassing the chain of command. I'm sure that was agreed procedure.

@delicious_lunch3823

2 жыл бұрын

At least in modern times, what you said was the case. All of my Captain's Standing Orders while I was in mentioned that it was within our purview as OOD to call General Quarters (the modern equivalent of beating to quarters) if the situation dictated it. You'd have to have some absolute stones, or be quite sure of the situation to actually do it though lol.

In the scene where they give him the model, it's stated very clearly that the ship was American made before the war and the french bought it. Also, the British absolutely had a whaling fleet in that part of the world, so I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about.

@Sylinnilys

3 жыл бұрын

same with the disguise later, they painted over the cannon shutters and placed small boats on the side as a whaler would have... plus others. It did not have to be perfectly accurate just close enough that a view from behind would appear so. The horizon scene, similar its explained in the scene itself, just after how much time they had until dark, how much they needed to outrun the enemy for...

@haraldisdead

3 жыл бұрын

Yea, and navies got vessels from every country, then as now.

@thorne1239

3 жыл бұрын

@@haraldisdead In the books HMS Surprise is French built. When captured they were often 'bought' into service.

@haraldisdead

3 жыл бұрын

@@thorne1239 interesting. The CSS Merrimack was originally a US vessel.

@yowtfputthemaskbackon9202

3 жыл бұрын

it was common at that time for some ships to change hands several times mainly due to beeing sold around or just getting boarded and taken as a trophy

The plan worked likely due to the smoke. Whaling ships, back in the day would often process the oil themselves in order to “cut out the middleman.”

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho, interesting, I was not aware of that. Thanks for sharing the info.

@JoeBLOWFHB

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah it was called a try-works the blubber was render into oil then placed into barrels to allow them to stay at sea for extended periods. Early whaling relied on shore processing but by the 1800's whales were routinely towed by longboat back to the mothership and tied off along the side. A catwalk would be extended to allow the crew to flense giant strips of blubber from the carcase these strips were hauled aboard where they would be further minced for melting.

@kennethfharkin

3 жыл бұрын

@@JoeBLOWFHB There is an excellent description of the process in Moby Dick based on Melville's own experiences at sea.

@tedwarden5803

3 жыл бұрын

They had no choice. What were they going to do tow whale carcass behind them? There wouldn’t be much left. Render it down and put in barrels easy to store.

@pascalstrijker3985

2 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 Maybe you could react to In the heart of the sea wich was inspiration for Moby Dick and shows alot of how whaling worked back then and the story of how the Essex sank and when crews had to abandond ship with nothing more than rowboats.

5:10 I actually don’t find him making the model that far fetched, because there is an exhibit in Annapolis where they have models made by French sailors who where captured by the British in the napoleonic wars. These sailors used the bones form there meat rations to carve ship models from memory, and they are very detailed. And the reason the ship was built in the us is because they modeled the French ship of the USA constitution so in the battle scenes the British canon balls would bounce off

@CareerKnight

5 ай бұрын

Though the ship was American in the book it, contrary to what Vince says it was not unheard of back then (or even really today) for nations to build warships for other nations. The US did this a lot, even building ironclads for other nations while fighting the Civil War. Even much later several Japanese warships that served in WW2 had been built in the UK for Japan before the war.

@panacomposer

4 ай бұрын

Yes! Agreed. Also, in the movie Willie and Nagle are not claiming the angles and curvatures etc are accurate, but the framing. Later, Jack realizes this framing is what allows the hull to be so resistant, and helps him to device the strategy which involved aiming higher, not at the hull. Finally, Nagle builds the model because he IS a carpenter.

The Captain being friendly with his crew. The scene shows the Captain at the midshipmen’s instruction. It was the Captains responsibility to instruct the midshipmen in navigation so they could pass their test for lieutenant. Often among the midshipmen where children of superior officers and even members of the nobility. A little levity helped in discipline and career wise may have benefited both parties.

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

also Midshipmen were officers in training, they belonged to the same social class as the other officers so it wasn't nearly the same as fraternizing with the enlisted sailors.

@DavidGrayOK

3 жыл бұрын

The scene shows Capt Aubrey exhibiting very good skills in his role as a teacher!

I suggest watching HistoryBuffs’ review of ‘Master & Commander’ to get a little more detail on why they changed what they changed- note: one of the biggest changes from the book to the movie was the ‘Acheron’ itself... I enjoyed your review, too.

I've heard that the American Oaks where the super-weapon of naval shipbuilding at that time, much stronger than what the British had access to. That would explain why the French would have this ship built there. They used to be good buddies too....

The light swimming on barrels is not only believable, Thomas Cochrane did use it within those times. And in those times the captains did fight sometimes. Again Cochrane is an example of doing both: staying back as captain and fight as honour dictated.

@kennethfharkin

3 жыл бұрын

Cochran was amazing and the main model for Jack Aubrey. The man had cast iron balls and I am convinced only stopped sailing when they could no longer find a vessel large enough to keep them afloat. kzread.info/dash/bejne/oolhzaiOetKwdbg.html In addition, the pursuit scene in the beginning was much like that of the USS Constitution in July 1812 except that one went on for THREE DAYS with them pulling the boat as an overwhelming force pursued. ussconstitutionmuseum.org/collection-items/uss-constitution-escaping-from-the-british-july-1812/

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ok, cool, I am glad to know I wasn't too far off on that point.

Actually , it wasnt so uncommon for even battleships to be built in foreign countries , the japanese kongo class battlecruisers were built in britain and so were a few south american dreadnoughts. It makes sense that a 19th century frigate could be built in an american shipyard , taking into account that those vessels were not by far as costly as modern battleships. Even ships of the line were captured and used by oposing nations wich wasnt seen as big deal , but the destruction of a modern battleship was seen as a national disaster. Great content!

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the warm comment, I appreciate it.

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

The battleship Mikasa was also built in Britain, and is now the last remaining British-built battleship in the world

The point about wanting to hit the broadside of an enemy ship may be true with modern navies, but back in those days the rear was the most vulnerable part of a ship to fire at. Aiming at the stern, cannonballs could take down the length of the vessel, doing more damage than if they were going through a lateral cross section. Additionally, the stern of a ship was where the captain’s quarters were, and had glass windows as opposed to the stronger wooden hull of the sides. Captains coveted the chance to be able to fire at the exposed rear ;)

In that time frame alot of sailors were basically ship builders and carpenter's, not surprising for one obsessed with a ships build, to visit a ship building yard and remember many details of something of his interest he found amazing, accurate to perfection, probably not, but many helpful details could be remembered.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I would have been ok with them giving a very general and simplified replica of what they remembered. But what threw me off was when they claimed it was an perfect replica.

@MrSheckstr

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 the sailor says that he thought there was something ODD about it so he remembered it. And the captain asks “this FRAMING, it is accurate?” “Exactly accurate” It’s how the framing fitted to the hull of the ship, not the ratio of dimensions of the ship or the number of frames

@wolf310ii

3 жыл бұрын

Most of the crew were just random people picket up from the streets and pressed in the navy (they literally kidnapped people), shipbuilder were needed at home to build and repair ships, not to crew a small frigatte

@richbryce5006

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolf310ii I am afraid you are wrong. Read the books for the history of the crew of the Surprise most of whom had long been under Aubrey's command and were right seasoned able-seamen and prize-takers , many former South-coast smugglers And a goodly proportion of the crew were fully trained carpenters. necessary on a ship of war likely to need many running repairs far from any friendly ship yard. The two who brought the model to Aubrey were the ship's Master Carpenter and one of his Mates. Patrick O'Brien who wrote the books really knew his stuff.

@wolf310ii

3 жыл бұрын

@@richbryce5006 I didnt say they had no carpenter at all. If they were all so fully trained carpenters, the carpenter mate, who saw the Archeron in Boston, wouldnt need the Master to build the model. Aubrey took his best men from ship to ship, a part of the crews were already on the new ships or came from other RN ships and the rest came from prison and were pressed on the street or merchant ships. Only when the RN sold the surprise to Aubrey, he hire smugglers and seamen as crew.

The Surprise was not surrounded by fog when Aubrey used the telescope...he used it to look at a distant fog bank....

I think the guy with the boat model, was one of the ships carpenter’s mates. And while the ship is a French now, it could’ve started out as an American ship taken by the British and then taken by the French.

@normanberube4434

3 жыл бұрын

Or taken by the french during the qausi war

@mckenzie.latham91

3 жыл бұрын

It was built in Boston/America at the time many privateer ships were built in the states, one reason the British wanted to attack Baltimore in the war of 1812 also both those men were carpenters and the one would have seen the Archeon being built, he would have not have had a single look, he would have seen it built over a period of months.

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

I believe in the book he is a carpenter's mate. Also in the book the ship is actually an American privateer, and it takes place in 1812. They changed the year and the nationality because the studio thought it would be received better by American audiences.

@DavidGrayOK

3 жыл бұрын

There are many surviving examples of exquisitely detailed models of ships carved from bone by French prisoners. www.maas.museum/inside-the-collection/2010/02/15/prisoner-of-war-bone-ship-model/

Love the books, love the movie. Odd twist to it all... Turning the original enemy, the American 32-gun frigate Norfolk (modeled on the real frigate Essex) into the 44-gun French PRIVATEER, Acheron. The US Navy at the time was tiny, and didn't have extra frigates to throw around. And having a 44-gun state-of-the-art heavy frigate as a privateer was kooky. And the French had plenty of resources to build absolutely beautiful ships at the time - Better than the Brits. The movie doesn't mention the history of the Surprise, but what's funny is that the movie had an English ship fighting a French ship built in America, while in the original book version (and real history) the Surprise is a captured FRENCH ship originally called Unité fighting an American frigate.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho wow, that is quite a different scenario.

I’d strongly recommend as a naval man reading the Patrick O’Brien series the movie is based off. It’s a series of 20(21) books and well worth a read as I believe they are regarded as some of the if not the most accurate portrayal of naval life and warfare during the Napoleonic wars/age of sail.

There are others on the ship that can navigate. Presumably any of the lieutenants can. The sailing master specializes in navigation along with the master’s mates and senior midshipmen.

@alessandrok.9684

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and it did happen that the captain did participate in the storming of an enemy ship. If he died, command would fall to the 1st Lieutenant and if he was dead to the 2nd and so on...

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

In the book (and i believe the movie mentions it in passing) Pullings, the XO, is actually a Commander in substantive rank but sailing as a lieutenant because he couldn't get a command. So he is absolutely capable of at very least getting them back to a friendly port or even completing the mission if Jack were killed.

@empe811

3 жыл бұрын

@@stoutyyyy also as the prize is concerned it was always commanded by the second in rank after officer in chief... (1st lieutenant) and brought by minimal crew to the nearest friendly harbour. The prize being valuable warship taken in distinguished action usually meant a promotion for a lieutenant in chief to the master and commander rank and taking command of the mentioned vessel. In the movie the captured Acheron was temporary assigned to Pullings but being a frigate (a post ship) there was no chance for poor lieutenant/commander to receiving that ship...

Japan actually had many earlier Battleships ordered from Britain. It makes sense to have the Ships build in Britain because Britain had a lot of Expierence with Building Battleships as well as the needed Infrastructure

@1IbramGaunt

2 жыл бұрын

True but what has that to do with this? Either way thanks for preserving Misaka so well, the last British OR Japanese battleship left intact above the waves (and of course it's both, a British Formidable-class pre-Dreadnought built for the Japanese to order, and famously Togo's flagship at Tsushima)

@krashd

2 жыл бұрын

@@1IbramGaunt Vince clearly said that warships are not built in foreign countries, but they are. We Brits built warships for all of our allies, France still builds warships for other countries even to this day.

When Aubrey said to enter the men (the whalers) into the ship's books he was pressing them into his crew. As for the Acheron having been built in America, it was not a vessel of the French navy, she was a privateer, i.e. a privately owned ship whose captain had a letter of marque. The French owner could have commissioned an American yard to build it or he could have purchased the vessel. Another factor is that the Royal Navy blockaded most of the French ports so it would be easier for a privateer to sail from America. (In the US Civil War the CSA found itself in a similar situation, with most southern ports blockaded, the commerce raider CSS Alabama was built in a British yard and then once at sea with a small British crew the Confederate officers and crew took over for them and began their war cruise.)

@dirus3142

3 жыл бұрын

Also the ships captured by battle against other nations were repaired and commissioned into service. for example, USS President was captured by Britain and put into service. Britain had many French made ships in the Royal Navy.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

An interesting point. That could have also been the case.

@1IbramGaunt

2 жыл бұрын

@@dirus3142 yup, and ironically enough of course HMS Gerriere, the RN frigate beaten so soundly by USS Constitution, was in fact a French ship captured by the British and sent to fight Americans haha

Small detail about the problem of "the french ship being built in USA" which is effectively doesn't make any sense The original book from which this movie is based took place in the 1812 war between UK and the USA, and the Acheron was originally a yankee privateer, but they decided to change it for the movie because they thought the mostly american audience would not like to have their nation as the antagonist Master and Commander is one of my top 3 favorite movies, I really loved that analysis of yours Vince! You're awesome!

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho, really? Well that explains a lot. Thank you for the clarifications, although I now feel slightly disappointed in the American film industry. Hopefully, this sort of protective patriotic mentality will get better with time. And off course, thanks for the warm comments.

@Revkor

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 yes Achron is basically a Constitution Frigate

@javalavva

3 жыл бұрын

If I recall correctly the book version enemy is the 32-gun frigate USS Norfolk... a US Navy ship, not a privateer. Privateers at the time tended to be smaller, fast, less heavily armed vessels... the point was to close quickly and board with a ton of men rather than blasting your soon-to-be-prize with heavy cannon and damaging the goods. And a privateer would have avoided a Royal Navy vessel like the plague... better to pray on weak merchants than mix it up with a warship (more risk and less $$$)

@kennethfharkin

3 жыл бұрын

Well said. In addition there were some main differentiating factors in the design of the American super-frigates which would be apparent to anyone roughly familiar with the ships of the day. historyofmassachusetts.org/uss-constitution-construction/ The size, proportions, and especially the internal structure which would have been visible while under construction. Then you throw in the quality of wood used and there were without a doubt super frigates. They could smash any other frigate they encountered while being fast enough to run from an engagement with a 74 or other full sized SOL.

@stevefranks9873

3 жыл бұрын

I think what matters is that they point out that the ship was built in America. American made meant Live Oak planking. That should be enough to satisfy the history buffs, no?

Was going fine until 2:54. That's completely incorrect I'm afraid; officer in charge would often beat to quarters without captain's permission if an enemy ship is suddenly suspected nearby. If that wasn't the case, I dread to think how many battles would have been lost waiting for the captain to wake up and make his way on to the deck! There are many great books on Naval procedures in the Age of Sail available; it's a fascinating subject.

I suggest you look to the true adventures of Thomas Cochrane (the sea wolf) who captain Jack is based upon in the books. He used this method of disguising his ship as a whaling ship many times to fool you frogs. And a whaling ship is to collect oil from the whale, not to capture the entire thing. Thought a seaman like yourself would know that?

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho, interesting, I'll have a look at those books. Thanks for the recommendation.

@Tinman3187

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 also while you are correct that many whaling vessels were not designed or equiped for war, around the time that this movie is set there were actually a lot of whalers that were so similar in design to war ships that they could be easily converted and often were for wartime use. In some cases whalers would even be armed so they could protect themselves from privateers. The HMS Surprise in this movie is described as being smaller than a ship of the line and if the enemy approached them from the rear they would not get a good enough look at the ships sides to realize how heavily armed they were for whalers. This was a strange time in naval history for a lot of reasons.

@bellicose4653

3 жыл бұрын

Cochrane never disguised his ship as a whaler. But on several occasions he would fly flags of other countries to confuse the enemy. Look up the El Gamo. Cochrane was able to get in close while flying the American flag before attacking at close range. Another time he flew a Dutch flag and pretended to be a plague ridden merchant ship. But yeah, all the clever tactics in this movie were definitely inspired by Cochrane

@iain3713

3 жыл бұрын

@@bellicose4653 yeah the cochrane's actions on the HMS speedy and the el gamo is pretty much the entire plot of the first book

Great hearing your comments on this movie based on your experience. The movie is based on Patrick O'Brian's Jack Aubrey and Doctor Maturin series. It's a lovely historical fiction series based during the Napoleonic war, the and war of 1812. O'Brian does admit he stretches or compresses time to fit his stories. The title of this movie is taken from two of the novels. Master and Commander the first book, and Far Side of the World were the main plot of the movie as adapted from. In the book the privateer is American, because it takes place during the war of 1812. However it was changed because it was a Hollywood movie targeting Americans. I highly recommend the series. Unfortunately O'Brian died before he finished the last book. The previous one does not end of a cliff hanger so it's not so bad. However the "last" book was published with a few finished chapters, and hand written notes for the rest of the book.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, a few other viewers made me aware of the existence of those books. Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll definitely have a look.

@SailorVince What about when Nelson himself boarded two ships back to back at cape St. Vincent, there were many examples from the era of captains leading from the front so to speak.

@bellicose4653

3 жыл бұрын

Yup I'm no expert on the subject but ive definitely heard of captains getting into boarding actions. I can't imagine any time a doctor should be involved though

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

There totally were captains that lead on the frontline. That is undeniable. But we need to keep in mind that those were the exceptions, and not the rule.

@METT-TC

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 jack is very much an officer who takes after Nelson. He states on many occasions his admiration and infatuation with Nelson and the nelsonian ideal. The Royal Navy of the time had basically canonized Nelson at this point haha. I really enjoy this video about a movie and book series that I greatly enjoy.

This is such an under-appreciated movie. Glad to see it get some love and your commentary was so interesting and informative.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I am very grateful from my viewers to have mention the existence of this video, otherwise I would have never known. One of the best ship movie I have ever seen. I am glad you appreciated it.

@davidenglish4509

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. IF this movie interjected a little more action, I think that it would’ve made more money and we may have seen a sequel - the movie is based on a series of books, in case you didn’t know.

A historian at Ft. George in Niagara Falls (war of 1812) mentioned some parts of this movie like the medical equipment and procedures were exactly right for the time.

Interesting to watch this vid as an absolute fan of the novel series, and your vid is really well made. But some points bother me a little bit. for example 1: The scene where the midshipmen work with their sextants - they´re measuring the angle between horizon and sun, at exactly noon. This was crucial to determine your position, exactly the latitude. for the longitude the chronometre´s were crucial. Example 2 is the friendlines between captain and crew. You mentioned it in a scene where Captain Aubrey shows the midshipmen a maritime custom to beg for wind. In other scenes there is to watch how he lectures one of his officers how to behave in front of common sailors. This is absolutely crucial, because there was a sharp line between officers and seamen, absolutely more strict than today (and I know that it´s strict today too). The captain himself CAN be friendly only because a) he knows how to assert himself and - important - in this scene he speakes to midshipmen. These boys (historical between the age of 12 and 16) are his students. He has to teach them what it means to be an officer, what they have to know, but also how to behave as officers. But in the same time they were full officers. A 12 year old boy was part of the chain of command and had permission to give orders to full grown sailors, seamen as well as NCO´s. So Captain Aubrey didn´t cross the line here. Aside of that I really enjoyed your video, keep going :)

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, your arguments were very well described and presented in a very civilized way. I am glad you enjoyed the video.

I believe by the 19th century whaling ships could process whales entirely at sea, and the smoke on deck indicated they were rendering blubber, not a distress signal. You should definitely review the 1950's Moby Dick movie next, it's free on KZread.

It's cool that we use the same "logging" terminology when it comes to computer programming. They're very handy for troubleshooting problems

If you are interested in the historical background of this movie youtuber "History Buffs" has a good video on the subject.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I saw, his video! I enjoyed it enough to actually put a link to his video in the description bellow.

@mpalfadel2008

3 жыл бұрын

Lol That where I got my info on this movie

@dspserpico

3 жыл бұрын

One of the points in the History Buffs video about how the bad guy was originally an American privateer in the book, but it was changed to the French for the movie because, you know, Hollywood...

One small point: The RN tended to fire on the down roll, not the up roll as shown in the film. This reflected the naval wisdom of the day that on the down roll the shot might hit the hull. The French on the other hand favored hitting sails and rigging if they missed the hull, hence they tended to fire on the up roll.

Historically during the age of wooden ships and iron men it was not uncommon for the Captain of a ship to lead a boarding party when the ships in question were alongside one another and the majority of each crew was involved in the combat. Today when more often than not you're sending a small party in a ship's launch to check out another vessel that would not be done. Agree with you about the doctor though.

@wulfheort8021

Жыл бұрын

Wooden ships and iron men, I really like that one.

@hectorfernandez4098

8 ай бұрын

During the Naval Combat of Iquique, in 1879, Arturo Prat, captain of the chilean vessel Esmeralda, led a boarding party against the peruvian ironclad Huascar, dying of a gunshot on the enemy deck.

The Acheron is an American ship in the book. The studio changed it to a French ship because they couldn’t imagine an American audience rooting for a British crew against an American one. The filmmaker didn’t agree but was forced to make the chance.

@Ryvaken

3 жыл бұрын

The studio was right. Anyone with an education good enough to have heard of the War of 1812 is disinclined to root for the Royal Navy in such circumstances.

@Beuwen_The_Dragon

7 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, America was still riding the post 9/11 high, and likely wouldn’t have received a War film with American Antagonists very well…

It's been a while, but if I remmeber correctly, the enemy ship in the book was suppose to be an American ship and the book I think was set during the War of 1812, and the boat they were chasing was the same class as the USS Consitution.

nice reaction man! It's a great film. I enjoy the slow pace of it.

Thank you for a very interesting and helpful video! For a writer of pirate novels, it’s so fascinating to find an educated person and get to know more about the matter. Also you’re really pleasant to listen to and watch. Keep going)

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

This comment means so much to me, it really warms my heart. Thank you so much. I do have to admit that I may have been wrong on one historical argument or two (which is fine, I’ll do better next time.) But I am quite confident about my analysis of the ship dynamic, and I hope I might inspire some part of your story. I truly wish you the best in your writing.

@aivarizhtml

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 you’re so kind❤️ I’d already known some of the thing you covered but also found out a lot of interesting stuff! Your next vids are up next in my watch later list)

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

@@aivarizhtml Fantastic. And if you ever would like an online meeting to ask me some questions related to the maritime world, feel free to reach, I would be happy to help.

Good video, one thing, Dr Maturin didnt go with Aubry at the beginning, he went in later with Blakeney.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! And yes, you are absolutely right about that fact.

14:40 I would imagine they would actually speak in French as that was the lingua franca of the time amongst Europeans. If you want a stone cold classic film to watch that depicts the day to day monotony and living at sea then the 1981 German film "Das Boot" is hard to beat.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome, I'll put it on the list, thanks for the recommendation!

@andreraymond6860

3 жыл бұрын

Damn The Defiant is the second best representation of 'Nelson's Navy' ever put to screen (after Master And Commander'.

@pavelthedog6939

3 жыл бұрын

Das boot was indeed a great , accurate movie.... but to sit in a theater for 5 hours ? I couldn't do it...

@empe811

3 жыл бұрын

@@pavelthedog6939 there was a chopped version - miniseries of 5-6 episodes I guess.

Excellent video, thanks for taking the time to make it.

You are a great public speaker, Vince. Congratulations. And thank you for this interesting and amazing lesson.

How would this guy be qualified to speak on the accuracy of a British vessel from the Georgian era?

You obviously haven't heard of, crossing the 'T'.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Well, now I have. It was interesting to read on it. Thank you for the information.

LOL. Bread and water only punishment. When I was in the Marines, I knew someone who said he got in trouble once and was placed in the brig with only bread and water. He made real light of the situation and laughed it off. Sure, it was just bread and water he said, but you got "ALL bread you wanted" he used to chuckle.

Great reviews and great job buddy !! As always very cool to watch !! 💪👌

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

A great honor to consider you among my fans ;)

I think the point of the sextant exercise was to determine local noon to determine longitude.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that could also be the case. Unfortunately, they didn’t give enough information to know exactly what they were checked. There are a few thinks you can calculate with the amplitude of the sun.

@paladinsix9285

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 I believe the director was trying to depict inexperienced Midshipmen visually, rather than having a character have to make a comment about it. In a book it may just be a few words. In the movie it is background that also visually depicts the inexperience of the Midshipmen, and why they are aboard since its the only place they could learn and practice such things.

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

The Hightide of the sun at noon gives you latitude and the time of noon gives you longitude (if you know the time at a reference point, typically the RGO at Greenwich but would be in Paris for the French navy at the time). You can get both at other times of day but not always together and noon was the easiest to get both which is why the days run was always recorded noon to noon. Position in between times being given by dead reckoning.

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

The Hightide of the sun at noon gives you latitude and the time of noon gives you longitude (if you know the time at a reference point, typically the RGO at Greenwich but would be in Paris for the French navy at the time). You can get both at other times of day but not always together and noon was the easiest to get both which is why the days run was always recorded noon to noon. Position in between times being given by dead reckoning.

@davidwright7193

3 жыл бұрын

The Hightide of the sun at noon gives you latitude and the time of noon gives you longitude (if you know the time at a reference point, typically the RGO at Greenwich but would be in Paris for the French navy at the time). You can get both at other times of day but not always together and noon was the easiest to get both which is why the days run was always recorded noon to noon. Position in between times being given by dead reckoning.

What the midshipmen are doing in the scene with their sextants is establishing noon, which was the beginning of the next day in the Royal Navy at the time. Now whether they are showing that correctly in the movie I'm not sure of. I don't know how to use a sextant.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, the only times I used one was during my four years training. I have never seen anyone use one during my career.

@michaelmclachlan1650

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 I read a comment somewhere that the US Navy was now only training specialist navigators how to use a sextant.

Master and Commander was great. Watched it 5 times in the theaters and bought the dvd as soon as it was released

I don't know much about ship board life, but I know some navigation - 6 years as a USMC aerial navigator on KC-130's, much of it using celestial as the primary overwater navigation aid. I was impressed with their getting a local apparent noon fix. I used a periscopic sextant with a "bubble" superimposed over the sun to act as a horizon along with a mechanical averager. I'm thinking a manual sextant as shown is a whole lot harder to use. Thanks for the review of one of my favorite movies.

@mikebrase5161

3 жыл бұрын

I can't imagine taking a sextant reading was too easy if the seas were rough.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Ho, that's so cool! Out of the ordinary life experience!

@thomasquinn284

3 жыл бұрын

A manual sextant is a bit tricky in a heavy sea. However the midshipmen were looking for a noon fix of time. That is when the sun dips it it's highest point and then begins to lower. It is the average that is observed and then logged. At best in open sea your position would be within 30 nautical miles of your actual fix.

Good point about the relationship between captain and crew, but remember the captain here is really only being friendly with the officers. Not so much the men. In fact there’s a big scene where he tells junior officers not to get to friendly. And it was a common trick amongst privateers and pirates to disguise their warships as merchant vessels and whalers. I get what you mean about the whalers looking different, but actually whaling ships in the early 1800s and even the 1840’s could and did butcher whales at sea and they burned allot of the whale to get the oil, hence the smoke. That being said, you’re right, this French captain was supposed to be clever, so why couldn’t he see the similarities between this fake whaler and the British ship he attacked. So this was a fun review, and although sometimes you’re straying into comparing modern and 19th century sensibilities and practices I enjoyed your comments.

@kennethfharkin

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly, those "boys" were technically officers as Aubrey made a point of reinforcing to the crew when one was disrespected. You could see that his interaction with the enlisted was done at an arms reach, even when praising them.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting! Thank you very much for sharing this information, I appreciate it. I also had a look at your channel, it looks really cool. And I am glad you enjoyed that video.

@adventuresinhistoryland5501

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 Yes it was a very fun video to watch. If you ever want to talk about collaborating on videos in the future please do get in touch any time.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

@@adventuresinhistoryland5501 Ho man, that would be my honor!

@krbkrbkrbkrbkrb

3 жыл бұрын

About the disguise, seeing a ship at a distance on open water the most distinctive thing is the format of the sales and rigging and they changed how their sails were configured. They also used fabric to alter the outline of the hull and it's hard to see details looking through those old telescopes.

Ok, nice review, but a few points you might not be aware of. 1. ship profile in battle: In the age of sail, you do not want to expose a narrow profile to the enemy as the bow and stern carried few or no canon, and were also the weakest part of the ship's upper hull above the waterline. Battles were fought at close quarters broadside to broadside, or if you managed to 'cross the T' you could pound you enemies unprotected foreparts or the stern quarters. 2. Captain's would often lead their men in close combat. It was certainly expected after Nelson's example of leading a charge across the decks of two enemy ships at the Battle of Cape St. Vincent in 1797. 3. Disguising the Surprise as a whaler. Perfectly possible in my view. The French expected to see a whaler so they would not study the hull of the other vessel too closely. They were seeing what they expected to see. Whalers in the Pacifc would boil their catches on the spot and place the oil in barrels, and this required blubber cooking facilities, hence the dense foul smelling smoke used as a ruse to convince the enemy. Bring them close alongside and unprepared. It could easliy take the Frenchman 5-10 minutes to prepare for battle, and in that time they could be boarded and captured. Yes the detail of everyday life at sea in the film is just superb. Your comments on ship logbooks are spot on. I have personally studied several thousand of them from the 17th century to modern times (naval, merchant and whalers), extracting weather data for modelling past weather and climate over the oceans.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting points, I glad you pointed all that out. And I am glad you enjoyed the video.

He saw the ship out of water as it was being built. As it was being built. And not just once. Also the Shipman that saw it out of water doesn't proclaim to understand how it works. Just how the framing looks. It's the captain that proclaims to understand the importance of it.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

An other very good counter argument, well explained too. Thank you for sharing it.

Thanks for the video! It was very informative and entertaining.

"Thats how we french talk when we speal in english" proceeds to pronounce due to popular demand like adieu :,)

@SweetandFitting

3 жыл бұрын

Better than pronouncing it like "do" ;)

tellement intéressant Vincent!!

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Merci Justine, ça me fait vraiment chaud au coeur!

I enjoyed hearing your informed and personable perspective. Thanks.

The sweet spot to attack a sailing warship is the stern. The timber is thinner and if you can punch through your shot can go the length of a gun deck and do much damage.

This movie has been called the most historically accurate ever made. Even with the vocabulary they used, which is sometimes hard to understand due to the terminology.

@redcardinalist

3 жыл бұрын

>>This movie has been called the most historically accurate ever made Really, of all the movies ever made? Colour me sceptical. Called by who? A source would be nice.

You definitely know a lot more about this than I do, but I felt that the Surprise's crew did a pretty good job disguising their ship. They had davits up and hid the windows of the great cabin. The Acheron also approached them from behind which I guess would make it harder for the French captain to recognize it as a warship based on its profile and the canon hatches on the sides. I also agree that the captain was portrayed as friendly in some scenes, but he only was like that when he was interacting with his lieutenants and midshipmen. There is that whole bit about him having a sailor lashed for not saluting, and he scolds Mr Hollom for trying to fraternize with the crew. I really enjoyed your analysis of the movie, it's one of my favourites. Sadly not a lot of people on KZread make content about it

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t ever hesitate to write your argument if you have one. Many others did it, and I am very grateful for it. You know, some of my remarks in this video were based on facts and personal experience, but some other were just my personal opinion based on my professional knowledge. Meaning I don’t deny the fact that I could potentially be wrong on a point or two. And you are also right, it was a great movie.

@Dom-fx4kt

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 I'm not so sure if you're right about the criticism of whaling ships being that far away in the pacific, because the New England Whalers used to sail around into the pacific and hunt Whales, like that ship that was sunk by an albino sperm whale in the pacific that inspired the story for Moby Dick.

I like this movie a lot and thank you for helping us to get more accurate details about sailing and ships. Good job, please keep on your good work.

Regarding floating a lighted decoy in order to escape: this is a trick that was actually done by Cuthbert Collingwood (later Admiral) early in his career. Admiral Collingwood was the model for Captain Auberry.

This is really good. Adding to other comments, these ships changed hands frequently between the English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, and even the Russians! (they had a few :) ). The Acheron, being a privateer, was built in Boston using Southern Live Oak which was highly prized for its strength back then. There was no European wood as strong.

@rinnafarcoast2216

Жыл бұрын

During that time period there were actually raids to capture supplies of live oak. America had the best supply of wood for ship building. And South America had Lignum Vitae which was used for blocks, sheaves, deadeyes and other parts, and is sometimes called nature's nylon. It's an incredible wood. The US had a very good relationship with France in this period.

Genuinely surprised you skipped everything with Hollum and insubordination after having talked about Aubrey's relationship with the crew. In the case of the doctor, Maturin, going into combat, A) he was backing up Blakeney, but B) the character is actually a British spy, which is book content they don't dive into in the film other than by tangent, when he reminds Aubrey that the French have spies in England and elsewhere, "as do we".

@vanyadolly

3 жыл бұрын

@@ilikeheavymuzic135 To be fair it isn't really relevant to the plot in this movie, or even in all the books.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, I did cover it... and then, when I published my video, the algorithm blocked it for copy right claim. I had to cut a solid 5 minutes of content, including that scene, it was annoying.

Excellent points, thanks so much. And LOVE Master and Commander!

This is one of my favorite movies. It’s an amazing depiction of life at sea in that era. The novels are brilliant too.

The whole thing about knowing the French Ship hull is due to the books adaptation. In the book the story is set in the war of 1812 and the ship they are giving chase to is american. As in the movie is built in boston and is basically an equivalent to the USS constitution. I dont remember if one of the crew knew about the ship tough. It passed a lot of time. It was probably a movie expedient to illustrate something they already knew in the book having the royal navy already confronted that class of ship in the past. Just guess. Nice video btw. I love theese kind of technical breakdown of movies.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! I love them too, that's what pushed me to do some of mine!

@amycollins6007

3 жыл бұрын

The Norfolk was an older generation than the Constitution. She was a 38 gun frigate equipped with carronades.

@harkonen1000000

3 жыл бұрын

Not just an equivalent to USS Constitution, literally a 3D scan of USS Constitution.

Sorry, stringing my comments as I watch. I love the video, well done. The part at the end about risking the captain in battle... As silly as it seems now, I think it was totally realistic for the captain to be leading the charge into battle... it would be expected of him. In large lines of battle, the captain and admiral would stay on the quarterdeck, but they couldn't hide or take cover... they were expected to stand tall while being shot at by sharpshooters in the other ships' fighting tops (most famously, how Nelson was killed). Not to get too bogged down into the plot details, but the Doctor only got involved because it was a desperate last-ditch effort (fun background, the Maturin character is a master swordsman / marksman, who has a LONG history of dueling... he's quite deadly). Even the honor code of how ships engaged was silly... only having comparable ships fight each other was honorable. The US Navy at the time had no ships-of-the-line (the larger 2-3 deck ships with 70+ guns), only frigates. The Royal Navy didn't send their larger ships of the line to engage during 1812... one of the reasons they had several embarrassing losses at the time was because they were sending their smaller frigates against the heavy Americans... which were unlike any other frigates at the time. Thanks for the video!

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Don't be sorry, any constructive comment is welcomed her ;)

@boriskapchits7727

3 жыл бұрын

actually, not only captains charged ahead. Nelson led a boarding party when he was a flag officer, rear admiral. But he had a very special character, of course.

@paladinsix9285

3 жыл бұрын

It wasn't a matter of "honor" during the War of 1812 most of the British Royal Navy was in European waters. Third and Fourth Raters were more cost efficient. USS Constitution and other Yankee Frigates could out sail any ships that out gunned them! Having only a few, instead of a Hundred plus, meant we could afford to over gun them. American Sailors had more experience than anyone but the British in that era, and the British had many more ships, and global commitments.

Regarding the guy calling beat to quarters without asking the Captain, another guideline is that if you have any doubt about a certain risk, assume as if there is a risk. That’s also why then after Captain Jack comes in and even though they were not 100% sure about sighting another ship he tells Hollom he did the right thing by calling the crew to battle stations.

The idea of them pretending to be a whaler comes in part from the storyline of the movie as well as a historical instance. Jack Aubrey is loosely based off of Lord Thomas Cochrane, who once disguised his brig as a danish merchantman to evade a Spanish frigate. In master and commander, the Acheron (based off of the USS Essex) is hunting whalers in the pacific so a merchantman wouldn’t make sense. So while not technically accurate it fits perfectly into the storyline.

@severstal81

3 жыл бұрын

And on that ^ there were multiple times where Cochran did board enemy boats alongside his crew. Continuing his Scottish heritage as 'the fighting Cochrans'

Nelson fought in boarding actions on many occassions. Also, in the battle between USS Chesapeake and HMS Shannon, Captain Broke led the successful boarding. Apart from that, I greatly enjoyed your commentary. Thank you.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I am so glad you enjoyed it!

This was great! Super illuminating. Very mistaken about the whaling fleet, however. In this period convoys of British whaling ships hunted sperm whales for their oil in the South Pacific, on voyages that could last years. They would bring the dead whale alongside, then drain the headcase and render the blubber into oil onsite, barreling it for all of the long voyage until they returned home. In the novel the film is based on the enemy ship is American and it takes place during the War of 1812. I believe it is based on the real life USS Essex, which in 1812 DID capture a dozen ships of the British south Pacific whaling fleet, with holds full of oil worth some $2.5 million at the time, before being captured by the Royal Navy. More here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Essex_(1799). Anyway, tl;dr the sperm whale fishery in the south seas was very different than the right whale fishery in the north Atlantic.

There's a lot to be said for shooting at an end-on target from an artillery standpoint. Dispersion from artillery tends to be vertical, not horizontal. Meaning that an end-on ship is actually giving you a larger target profile than a broadside ship.

Nelson died in battle. His fleet made it home.

@drlindberg5372

3 жыл бұрын

All officers would have studied navigation.

@terrulian

3 жыл бұрын

@@drlindberg5372 Right. I was responding to the part of the video that claims that it is unrealistic to portray captains as fighting, as we see in the movie, because their death and consequent absence of navigational expertise would constitute an existential threat. Alexander and Patton, along with Nelson, were people who got into the action.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, a crew can sail a ship without a captain. And a kitchen can be run without a chef. But does it make everything harder, less organized and riskier? Absolutely. The captain remains the person with the most navigation experience.

There is a museum ship you can visit in Japan it’s a pre-dreadnought built by Vickers in the UK because in the late 19th century Japan had money but not the knowledge to build their own, I’m sure it’s not the only example in maritime history.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

So cool! I hope one I’ll have the chance to visit it.

@kvogel9245

3 жыл бұрын

The Mikasa, Admiral Togo's flagship.

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

@@kvogel9245 The Mikasa and the Aurora (museum ship in St. Petersburg) were both present at the battle of Tsushima on opposite sides, although they were both preserved for completely different reasons

officers led from the front, probably not as much today but definitely back then. the captain in this movie and book series is based on Thomas Cochrane RN www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Thomas-Cochrane-Master-Commander/

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, I don’t deny there were some exceptions to the rule. But for the sake of this review, I was evaluating this based on the general rule.

@casualhobby

3 жыл бұрын

And getting injured was an accepted norm. Take Admiral lord nelson who lost an eye and an arm in small ship cutting out expeditions.

The Alabama was a ship that served the Confederacy during the American Civil War. It was build by the Laird Shipyard on the Mersey in the UK

I had to stop when he thought the telescope was seeing 'through' the fog. lmao The ship was obviously coming out of fog.

It was an American ship, because in the orig book , the pirates were American. They changed them to French for the movie. They were afraid it would affect the movie sales in the US if they were the bad guys.

@thomasklausen4596

3 жыл бұрын

Not exactly pirates - it was normal (and perfectly legal) to have your men-o-war snap up civilian ships flying the enemy's flag.

Thats exactly how you sound when you french speak english.

@rheinhartsilvento2576

3 жыл бұрын

Some of them. Not everyone. The presenter is a French Canadian I believe, and he doesn't sound like this....

Good job! Very interesting... Keep up the good work!

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Marc, I am really glad you enjoyed it.

The comment on the Officer of the Watch, going above the Captain’s head, when Hollom called Quarters is misunderstanding the roles at play. Each Officer plays Officer of the Watch, and during that time, he is “Acting Captain”. He answers any issues, directs navigation and course, as well as makes any initial and immediate battle actions. This frees the captain to sleep, and or relax or tend to other matters. If you pay attention to the Dialogue, Captain Aubrey actually commends Hollom for “making the right decision” by calling the Ship to Quarters, even though it was actually Calamy who made the call.

@stoutyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

That's not entirely true, the watch officer still has to comply with the captain's standing orders, which in this period could be as vague or specific as the captain wanted, and usually if theres a concern regarding one of them the captain should be woken up. However it was extremely likely that the standing orders did in fact say something like "beat to quarters if you see the ship."

I have an idea for another review! You could always do the ww2 film "Das Boot" ! :D

frennchman: "th-there's no way this plan would work"

There was a long history of whaling ships operating in the Galapagos, so it's not unreasonable that the movie shows the Surprise coming across a pirated whaler in those waters.

Actually, the real Acheron in the book was an American ship, but the director was told re-write the script so that Americans would actually come and watch the movie. That is why we have a french ship made in Boston.

@mckenzie.latham91

3 жыл бұрын

it is also true though that many vessels that were used as privateers were built in Baltimore and etc.

Do you disagree with anything? Make sure to comment about it! Also, don’t miss my reaction playlist where I go over other movies and games: kzread.info/dash/bejne/p32axMyLlbrVn7A.html

@jamalwashium5387

3 жыл бұрын

What navy you with?

@AlbertShell

3 жыл бұрын

You said Aubrey was being friendly towards the crew - in fact in the scene you're talking about he's joking around with the midshipmen - that is with the younger officers, not the enlisted men! That is something different

@jonmcg9731

3 жыл бұрын

I never finished reading Moby Dick but whaling ships did process the whale blubber on board. There is an entire chapter about every piece of equipment, I mean to finish reading it some day but that chapter is very long. It was a really dirty, smelly process and being a whaler was not a high status job.

@sailorvince6442

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamalwashium5387 I actually work for the Canadian Coast Guard.

@jamalwashium5387

3 жыл бұрын

@@sailorvince6442 o wow puddle purate so glad lol