I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4x4 adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register. Here is my REACTS videos playlist - its purpose is for us all learning from other people's 4x4 drives. - kzread.info/head/PLxCUUqtm329plBAWaZBTGQolmUBJnXMDU

Maybe the safest option would have been to attach the winch when he stalled the car i think? Mate with the Camera could have unspooled it and attached it to something, even without a tree protector it would have saved the car and given time to restart and reposition the vehicle?.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes totally agree with you

@jake-mv5oi

10 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing.

@bendgeddes

10 ай бұрын

Old Rovers may have a PTO winch so may need the engine running?? I’m not an expert but “engine-running” winches were a thing. Also, it may have hit the fan before they got to that.😬

@bendgeddes

10 ай бұрын

It does look a bit like a hi-mount winch with synthetic rope so electric not PTO.

@hecticgerva1192

10 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing too.

This was on Deep Creek no4 in Aberfeldy Vic, very steep track and fairly rough. . Without lockers ( seemed he was unlocked front at least) only chance to drive its with some momentum, but yes finding that balance is the tricky bit. Once he was crossed up and went up the bank it was all over, having wheels opposite lock in that hill he still be gone for sure. Easy to say at home but was very precarious once he stopped, first priority should have been handbrake then winch, hope everyone OK bloody scary vid this one. .

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes totally terrifying. I hope we can all learn from this.

@trickster8635

10 ай бұрын

Yes it is Deep Creek 4 - and it was closed for a reason. Dangerously eroded out and Parks decided to put a by-pass in. Logs were placed across the bottom to give a clue as to the closure. But........

@sir_forsaken1857

10 ай бұрын

100% agree that winching would have been the best and only safe option. Range Rover Classics, like Discovery 1's and Defenders have a center diff lock. It's not like air lockers but is still pretty damn good although ineffective when cross axled. Most experienced Range Rover drivers would have had the CDL on.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

@@sir_forsaken1857 the cdo only takes it from an awd to 4wd like every other 4x4 on the market.

@hedydd2

10 ай бұрын

Handbrake is a disaster on these vehicles as it works on the rear propshaft. With the centre diff locked, that means the vehicle can lose traction on one front and one rear and roll away as if it had no handbrake. Very stupid idea that LR tried to spin as some kind of advantage for years. LR never provided axle diff-locks as an option so unless fitted with an aftermarket differential, both axles have open diffs and we all know how a differential works [I hope] and that if one wheel spins in one direction the other side spins in the opposite even if the crown wheel and pinion are locked in position.

As mentioned these things happen very fast and he’d have huge adrenaline rush, as would everyone on that track , but in that situation I’d be thinking winch is the number one course of action. I know guys have winches unspooled ready for mud, but it might have also shaved off a few seconds in this scenario. But of course it’s easy to write this on the comfort of the couch.

I noted the Rangie had quite large wheels possibly 35" and likely a min. 50mm lift. Not sure whether air pressure had been reduced. These issues would have added to high centrre of gravity and possibly part of the problem.

Also if you read the comments on the original video the uploader mentions snapped axle as he was ascending. The driver had injury on his back L2 vertibrae 3 months off work. Just search Deep Creek 4 rollover.

The Land Rover motto is: “As slow as possible. As fast as necessary.”

@sir_forsaken1857

10 ай бұрын

spot on....

@ka4172

15 күн бұрын

"Does this situation worth it?" Question your self before!

@grahameroberts8109

15 күн бұрын

@@ka4172 What 🤷‍♂️

The value of stall start knowledge and training is a lifesaver as is keeping the windows rolled up to prevent stray limbs being broken or injured by whipping branches. Being strapped in and everything secured. I really feel for him and hope he is okay. Great chanel, thanks Matt.

@Robert-cu9bm

10 ай бұрын

No window is going to stay in tack to keep limbs in. The video shows the windscreen coming out.

@Psyco913

10 ай бұрын

​@@Robert-cu9bmI mean ya, this was a pretty extreme roll, but it doesn't take an extreme roll to break your arm if you stick it out the window.

@bcad4066

10 ай бұрын

@@Psyco913 It doesn't take an extreme roll to break a window either. Better to have window nets.

@bendgeddes

10 ай бұрын

The arm out the window was a scary visual but just the tip of the danger iceberg. 😬

@oggyoggy1299

10 ай бұрын

@@bcad4066 Haha! You have window nets?

Easy to add commentary and what you have pointed out Matt, is what you have leant from years of practise. I hope the 4wd adventure drivers take note and tackle tracks their vehicle and driving skill / learned knowledge allows them to master. Obstacles/ tracks defeat us at times, knowing when to play safe and when to be gun ho comes with experience. We can all learn from this …….. around the camp fire while being ribbed by our mates for getting out the winch and playing safe🤗

Wow that was one terrifying rollover. I hope everyone in the vehicle were alright.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes it certainly was

@Philipk65

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I'd say they needed a new set of undies.

Matt, thanks for keeping your videos coming! Love em! Lake Havasu 🌞 Az USA

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Ouch! I really hate seeing things like this happen. But I always learn something from your commentary and analysis. Thank you.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s not a pleasant watch.

I sure hope he pulled his wing back in the window! Well, he got it to turn over! Sure had quite a yard sale! I'd love to explore some of those trails, but slowly

I was screaming WINCH! Before I tackle hard things I unspool my winch and hang it on my bar and then pre set the winch controller etc. with it ready to come in. Been in similar situation, winch saved me. It gave me enough to bring the front of the air, get everything resettled and reset the angle on the hill. I saw an arm out the window of passenger before roll over hope all are ok.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Great tip about the winch.

This video has circulated the web for years now. From memory it was Deep creek 4 track. One of the steepest tracks around Walhalla. (it may have been closed for a while now, i think). Notice the passengers arm on the outside before and during first few pucker moments. Minced left arm possibility. Also debris just shows what happends when vehicle tumbles at those speeds. Wouldve been like a washing machine with all that stuff inside flying around. If the rollover didnt hurt them , heavy stuff flying around inside , could've easily killed them. Store everyrhing behind cargo barriers folks.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I’m a big fan of cargo barriers. They also add a degree of roll bar effect.

@jacksegond7163

10 ай бұрын

Not Walhalla. This is half way up ortons track just out of dargo.

@jacksegond7163

10 ай бұрын

Deep creek #4 isn't closed. #3 is, massive trees across the tracks that require minimum 100 inch chainsaw bars ect, not a necessity for parksvic to clear up

@2strokeINTRUDER

10 ай бұрын

This is the bypassed section of deep creek 4

Really good analysis and advice here.

Yes, those Range Rovers have a servo, but it's not the most powerful and you should still be able to hold it on the hill without one. That was a deliberate design decision by Land Rover. I will add that those Range Rovers the handbrake is on the back of the transfer box, and whilst it's theoretically effective on all four wheels, that's only if the centre differential is locked and the wheels are of course on the ground. Being a nerd here, that Range Rover Classic being a later model has a viscous coupling in the transfer box that cannot be locked manually. Therefore, his handbrake would have been useless as his front wheel was off the ground. My second point is that most of those are automatics, and whilst it can be locked in first gear, it's not particularly low and is very similar to second gear in a manual Range Rover. Therefore, it's entirely possible he was in first gear, but even so he had excessive momentum as could clearly be seen. Manual vehicles have a ridiculously low first gear low ratio, something like a 2.7:1 reduction from high to low from the factory (assuming standard transfer ratios of 1.222:1 high, 3.321:1 low). This, however, could be saved the moment he stalled the vehicle (it does happen with automatics, done it myself). Provided he could hold the vehicle on the foot brake, someone could have attached his winch to a suitable anchor point to secure the vehicle until a plan could be made.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info.

@davidhowell5945

10 ай бұрын

Except it’s a Prado… according to the original post.

@contributor7219

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, we've had four Rangie Classics over the years (still have our '93). That looks to be an '89 or '90 so it still has the vacuum booster rather than the hydraulic accumulator on the later Wabco ABS system. The hydraulic accumulator on the Wabco system gives much more holding power and reserve, but in all honesty I'm not sure it would make a lot of difference in that situation. The Wabco equipped cars also have a Borg Warner transfer case with a viscous centre coupling rather than a locking centre diff, and again I'm not sure that would have made much difference. All in all a very bad day for those involved.

@sir_forsaken1857

10 ай бұрын

@@davidhowell5945 Prado, hahaha you're so wrong mate it's not funny. You had to be joking right? It's a Range Rover Classic and looks absolutely nothing like a Prado.

@Land_Raver

10 ай бұрын

​@sir_forsaken1857 It sounds and looks like a classic. I know the later classics adopted the ABS pump and will easily hold the car as long as the battery is attached. This one must has to be a manual.

The BEST thing to do is take your time to access the situation and consider your options, even if it was to take 1/2 hr!

Matt, thank you for analyzing a situation we could all find ourselves in. I’ve watched countless hours of off-roading videos (many of them on your channel), so I wasn’t expecting to see and learn much that I didn’t already know. I was wrong. For example, what you explained about wheel direction in that situation is the opposite of what I intuitively thought was correct. My thoughts were on forward movement. But as you correctly pointed out, due to the limitations of the braking system, there is a genuine risk of rolling backward, and that wheel orientation would result in a roll.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the support over the years. We can all learn all the time.

Wow I hope everyone is okay what a disaster. Great content once again Matt. Keep up the great work 👏👏👏

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes everyone survived although seriously injured.

That sucks. Matt you have a great attitude

Thank you for this valuable lesson.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

If you dig enough i think you can still find the original video, they were ok, can't remember if they walked away tho, he mentioned that he kept the spare tire behind the driver or passenger seat which is what prevented the roof from caving all the way in, this is just a straight up shortcut track, it is not a crazy hard track but very high risk as there is no trees close to the track to prevent a continuous rollover like this or even being able to get a quick winch too.

Hi Mat would it have been a good idea for his mate to get the winch out to secure the truck to a tree at the point where he stalled on the hill then once started winch out of the hole before driving again?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes I agree although I’d probably use the camera man so we don’t upset the weight balance.

@luckylukeprospecting9460

10 ай бұрын

That's exactly what I was thinking when he crossed up mate

THANK YOU. APPRECIATED.

Great video! But I wish you had commented on how they could have avoided the roll. Maybe have the camera guy chock the wheels and then help use the winch.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I probably should have.

That Landy seems to have very hard suspension and/or high tyre pressures. Combine that with too much speed meant a very bouncy ascent.

Scary shit. Your right about trying to critique after the event but one thing I know 9 times out of 10 slow and steady will get you through more situations than a heavy right boot.

Finding the right tires for the terrain helps a ton.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes it certainly does.

@caelumbrandwood8554

10 ай бұрын

I'm 100% unconvinced that different tires would have made this situation any better. Pressures, perhaps. Less momentum, controlled driving and good wheel placement would have certainly made for a much better day.

@pauldashwood2897

10 ай бұрын

I would say tyre pressure way to high there to bouncy ..

Very thorough and detailed analysis of the proceedings; can’t believe you completely missed the number one reason for the accident: too stiff suspension. Many Australian rigs suffer from this

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I don’t think that was the main reason though.

That's got to be a really steep hill. It looks steep on camera and cameras usually don't do justice to depict steepness. So, this has really to be much steeper than looks on video.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah it looks like a proper monster hill.

@harrywalker968

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD read my comment..

@pablolobo6560

9 ай бұрын

Oh yeah. The way it rolled so far down the hill, I would have never have suspected. It was pretty awful.

For reference Re brake booster and roll over. Yes the stored vacuum can assist for a certain amount of cycles, however once the booster is exhausted - manual pedal effort of 60-80KG will generally apply enough force to control braking system. It requires more detailed and sensitive application - but can and will still work.

@MadMatt4WD

5 ай бұрын

When I’ve lost a booster I’ve never been able to apply enough force to get more than a slow down effect.

Yes vic higcountry shortcut on one of deep creek tracks

That it a very unfortunate incident. As many have alluded to, hindsight is a wonderful thing but in any case the only option I would have chosen is a winch line. Thanks for the analysis MM

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s so easy to point the finger. This can happen to even the most experienced amongst us. We all have bad days.

My suggestion in this situation! The vehicle is parked, its fine! Put it in P, handbrake on, carefully exit the vehicle. Not tie it off to something sturdy, once it's not going anywhere, have a look around and plan what to do next, probably includes using the winch to prevent it from running away, and maybe tying it laterally to something to stop it from rolling until it as straight again.

As far as I’m aware, and as a Range Rover owner myself, these models would have the Wabco brake module in them. Which means they operate electronically with an independent pressure servo operated by the vehicle’s electric circuit rather than vacuum from the engine! That means the brake will work even without the engine running, and just with the ignition on. However if this was a real early classic from the 70’s to early 80’s model, then the may have had the conventional vacuum system in them.

Great analysis Matt. As someone who's just very recently switched from a modern, automatic IFS vehicle to an old school solid axle manual, I'm pretty conscious of these sort of risks and will be doing my best not to repeat them, we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment and unfortunately when 4wd'ing there's often not a big margin for error. The modern auto's are almost stall proof and really help a lot in these types of situations.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

The danger of 4wding is also what brings the thrill of the drive. At least for me it does. That’s the reason I like the old school 4x4s

@sir_forsaken1857

10 ай бұрын

Now that you're driving a manual, would be a great idea to learn the "failed hill climb start".

@OffTheBeatenPathAus

10 ай бұрын

@@sir_forsaken1857 fortunately have some friends who can show me just that.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

@@OffTheBeatenPathAus I’ve got one on my channel

@johton

9 ай бұрын

I agree - but my manual Toyota Fortuner won’t stall recovery start in LR 4WD sadly - unless the clutch is fully depressed it has a cut out switch to stop car starting in gear around town. THAT function should be disabled in LR 4WD I reckon…. Modern safety design but not for off road stall recovery.

Nasty One,

Lockers and less speed, would change everything in these situations. Great analysis

“As slow as possible, as fast as necessary” that’s what I use when instructing and try to explain how much momentum to carry

Just wow hope they made it out okay

That looked steep on TV so it was almost vertical IRL. I doubt everyone was OK after that but at least they all stayed in the vehicle. What's the point of a winch if you aren't going to use it? The mind boggles at what it cost to recover that from there.

Matt, that’s a horrible situation to be it, It happened to us last summer in the VIC High country, vacuum lost boost and was heavily reliable on the hand brake to keep us on the hill. I’m now looking at installing an electric brake vacuum booster.. if you stall the engine, you still got 12v driven vacuum.. thoughts Matt?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes you could do that but I’d say a better solution is not put yourself in that situation. If you stalled why did you stall? Wrong gear? Overloaded?

He should have used a winch, but discounting that, I wonder if he could have saved it by turning the wheels the other way and jamming the transmission into first. It might have broken his transmission, but it might have been worth the try to slow his decent in combination with his weak brakes. However, someone mentioned he broke an axle, so that might not help as much.

And always keep your arms in the vehicle!!

Crazy roll over. Definitely would of hooked up the winch in that parcarious position. 😬

Especially when filming, there's an urge to be "heroic" in the way you tackle such an obstacle. Don't wanna look timid when you show the video to your mates

Have done this track down walhalla way, nasty track nasty accident, all that was needed was his spotter to take control of the situation, he had better eyes on what was happening and about to happen, I would’ve used winch to secure first, he would’ve been able to bring brake booster back to life with the added support, pulled himself out of that ugly angle and then continued up with the help of winch and spotter, I cringed when I spotted his arm out window, silly boy !! I know it’s an old vid but hope everyone was ok Thanks for your videos/ input Matt, nice commentary 👌✌️

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

A few people on the trip have commented saying they tried to get him to stop so they could winch.

@wildlifev.h.countryvscruis7697

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD am sure they did Matt, unfortunately you can tell by the right foot action he wanted to take this hill by himself unassisted which maybe was his biggest issue, all good sitting on the couch and baffling on bout the maybes and what ifs, but different sitting behind the wheel though, I drive off-road solo so I’m a lot more cautious than most cause I gotta get home under my own steam unassisted. Thanks for all your vids mate, informative and educational I’m 49 nd still learn every trip some thing new, part reason I love doing it, if your not learning every time you head out, give up and try something else cause your just gunna do damage to your vehicle and your self as this clip suggests 🤙

His rear left wheel is rolling up a big step. So no matter which way the front wheel is pointing, he is going to roll if the car goes backwards. The only way to save is go forward, which is quite difficult. The safest way is to winch. A good spotter would have save him as well.

I know that side track, I have driven it before & it is steep. Not a track you would want to stop on. Probably should have pulled the winch out as soon as it stalled, but might have had not enough time as well.

That's got to hurt I hope they are ok but definitely a situation not be in and also if in doubt slow down you got plenty of time to get up there

And if that wasn't an option, using the handbrake plus pedal, also support front wheels with a rock behind it to avoid rollback. Rear Locker on maybe to get the most forward momentum going.

Hope old mate was OK. I don't like seeing stuff like this but I learn off these videos. Going slow, auto and twin locked helps I suppose. Never be ashamed to pull the winch out even if your mates bag you out. Yeah, yeah, Yeah I had to winch while the rest of the convoy got up that hill easy but I still have my car and limbs in one piece and more importantly, my life.

@bazza2540

10 ай бұрын

Comments from original video. He had a small fracture in his spine, 3 months rest he was fine. Deep Creek no 4, snapped an axle doing the bounce manouver. Another comment says he's put the vehicle on the side on another trip before, seems like another guy who' only technique is the loud pedal.

I would like to criticise but a couple weekends ago a found my self doing a rookie error while doing a water crossing which was i didnt follow my mate that crossed in front and went a different line without actual looking to see if it got deep, nothing went wrong as water only got to the lights instead of just 1/4 up the wheels but i thought how easily it could of gone bad

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah we’re silly to pick on others when we all make mistakes. This is about learning.

I hope the guy is ok - but honestly, this was 100% the classic brainless ego 'send-it' attitude that caused this. Slow and controlled is the way. If you can't get up it in a controlled way (you can use momentum in a controlled way), then you can't get up it and you should go somewhere else. It's never worth possibly killing yourself.

First thing I thought about was the steering wheel position 😮

That is a nasty roll over. Matt I think it is so valuable these kinds of videos you do where you respectfully go over & break down what goes wrong in such situations. So along with what you said about it being easy to point out the mistakes & what you would do differently, I think no matter how simple the mistakes actually are they can happen to anyone regardless of skill level or what kind of mega rock crawler you have. Of course this is not a 4wd drive example, but I was thinking of Peter Brock's death, he was an exceptionally skilled driver. A moment of inattention, distraction, a wrong decision, feeling off that day, an argument with someone that dominated his thoughts. It could be any number of things that can bring us undone. What you said about how it was a good thing he was not alone in that disaster & I thought of my situation of how I am usually go it alone because I am not good with people, that I don't want help, that I done what to owe someone, that I done want to be a burden, I have been told all my life in one form or another that I am a burden & I think a good number of people (not all, probably not most.). Feel that way. I go out bush to get away from people but ironically I do like the social aspect of 4wdinging & how it seems to bond & foster community. I just have only ever been a spectator to that & not put myself out of my comfort zone to extend myself to that. So this video made me think, that maybe in some ways @ least I should consider extending myself , not just so I can improve my chances of survival & have others back me up, but that someone else might for the 1st time in my life see that I have things to contribute. If I am ever in such an accident I would want it to have value beyond my own self centric personal tragedy. So now I am inspired, I think I know how I can convince a 4wd group or club to let me join. I sell the story that I am a really bad "wheela" ( I am not implying the Landy driver was a bad driver here) & that they can film me if they let me wheel with them & I will just wheel the best that I can :0) Thanks Matt! I noticed something else in that video, this might be a perceptual illusory exaggeration because of the camera angle but @ the point in the video where the Landy comes to a stop on its roof, some of the way down the hill, there is a vehicle behind & off to the right, what looks like, parked on a very precarious angle. What you said about the booster only having a limited amount of pressure once the engine stalls was something I had never thought about, I just have unconsciously & automatically restart the engine, I have never not had it restart in similar situations, so I wonder if it does not consciously occur to a lot of people. Great video!

@MadMatt4WD

3 ай бұрын

Great comment. Look into your local 4wd clubs.

@leonkane8240

3 ай бұрын

:0) It is great stock standard advice, I do sincerely appreciate the sentiment, it has been on my mind for a long time. It has just seemed for much of my life I am something of a bully magnet, no matter what I do or don't do. I am fairly quiet & self regulating, keep to myself, I don't go looking for trouble but I do stand up for myself when trouble comes to try to bend me over. Sooner or latter someone shows up wearing their undies on the out side of their "active wear" to make me their "prison biache" So I dunno Matt. I think I confuse bullies, the back of my head looks like Dwayne the rock Johnson's rear dome. But the front looks a bit too goofy & friendly behind my titanium face. I can do that fierce eye brow thing he does but I don't seem to pull it off in the way that is signature for him. They get in way too deep, to deep to back out, realizing too late that I "shovel well" when its comes time to shovel. Might be easier to just start up my own club for miss fits, way wards & undesirables. @@MadMatt4WD

@MadMatt4WD

3 ай бұрын

Love ya work. We're all created unique.@@leonkane8240

@leonkane8240

3 ай бұрын

You're funny!@@MadMatt4WD

Great detailed video. From my experience, that's too quick and lack of thinking. For me, that's a 4L & 1st gear crawling up it at 1500- 2000RPM feeling the track, listening to the vehicle and taking it easy hill climb. Not saying I have never had any issues off road which I have with loosing traction on Step hills but that's where a little training came into it and I was able to get out of it relatively easy. This video here, he would have realised it wasn't a good situation. Rule of thumb, if it becomes unstable or you are stressing, get help with a winch or have the spotter do something. Lucky they didn't die. Done many track up and down the east coast and the one thing I see is not using the gears. Climbing or decending steep hills you do it slow and in the lowest gears you have. The amount of times I've seen people going down on there brakes and the 4wd taking off cause of it. A little thinking can save your life and vehicle

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yep i see the same thing. My channel is all about helping people wheel well as best I know how anyway

madmatt If you had a winch on the front and the guy in the red shirt should've taken the winch up to the nearest tree now we know you'll have to use tree protector strap but in the emergency getting that hook around the tree not one but two loops around the tree and hook it to the the cable. At least this will give you some form of insurance and safety and at the same time you can relax a little bit and focus on a recovery

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

This is not my drive. There is a winch on the front. They were trying to get it secured but ran out of time. People who were there have commented.

3 basics of 4wding 1. never go alone 2. wear your seat belt 3. make sure handbrake works. what caused the issue was he kept spinning the wheels sliding the back of car side ways and put him in a bad spot. if he stopped when he got to top it could get tied to a tree and get further up.

Well, on the bright side, he can do a full roll cage install for a lot less than a few days ago.

It’s fun they said

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

It probably was until it wasn’t.

@rockbiterhd

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD just watched you on the tv the sarvo good to see your skills getting out there enjoy

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Cheers what show was that? There’s a few shows and tv ads I’m on.

@rockbiterhd

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD off road adventure show on ten

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

@@rockbiterhd ah. I did a few with them. Was it the simpson crossing with the blitz? That’s was a great adventure.

The main issue is that they were attempting an old track that had been ripped and dozed. not fit for usage.

This is why people need proper training. Most people don’t have any idea about stall recoveries.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I agree but let’s not assume the driver didn’t have the training and experience.

@operation4wheelz

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD if he had the training then he hasn’t put it into practice. It’s a technique rarely used but it so fundamental to mitigating the risk of these incidents, and so important on hills like this where the brakes don’t do much.

Don’t listen to KZreadrs who tell you to send it and you’re some sort of hero if you don’t use your lockers. Can’t stand them.

Holy Shivers

Hope they okay. Can i ask how do insurance providers go with this kind of mishap

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Usually we’re covered in australia because it’s a formed registered road.

I really want a run at that hill, looks like fun. I'd crawl it though instead of gunning of it like buddy

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I’d be up for a crack.

Phaaaarrrrrkkk!!!! That's a ride I'll pass on...

Wasn't there and hate to be there, only thing I would have done straight way as camera man, drop camera to careful chock wheels with rocks to hole cars position being vhc trees are everywhere, drag the with rope to a tree just so we have a safe car before trying to start and everything. That's may not have worked but if I was the camera man I would have just droped camera

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Great comment thanks heaps

😢 I've had to back off a very steep climb on one hold of the brake booster(Stalled FJ40) low range and in reverse so I had the engine resistance. It was a HARROWING EVENT. We made it down🙏🏻,, but honestly,, I was never the same after that. 🤦‍♂️ It was a rock face that I'd done many times in the past. Circumstances can change in a split second. Very scary. My PTSD of that day is very real. Please 🙏🏻 be safe out there.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I’ve had a similar experience. I managed to continue going forwards with a restart but yeah scary.

ooh nasty. I was lucky in my auto 60 when she flooded going up a steep incline, conked out and being auto just flew back down hill. brakes had issues too and throwing in park did nothing. I'm glad it was smooth but a slight bend and kept pumping brakes til they worked. I winched up after that and a good calm down. The handbrake was a typical Toyota lol. my scariest experience yet.

@MadMatt4WD

2 ай бұрын

That sounds terrifying.

Would the cup of tea rule apply? I mean whilst the vehicle is secure, it's not super time critical. The driver could have asked for help and maybe tied it down or chocked the wheels or discussed mode of attack rather than panicking.

@MadMatt4WD

7 ай бұрын

100% that would have been the go

@ka4172

15 күн бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Your pushing leg is very wobbly i swear haha ! Cool down when you "high" on adrenalin is very difficult! I helps when spotters sooth and bring you too cool down! If you cool down your brain work way wisely! Most accidents happen when the drivers high on adrenalin! Only a cool down driver react wisely and save! A experienced wisely spotter can help so much in a situation like this too!!

The Rangie owner's channel is here: www.youtube.com/@proorty and it includes the original uncut video as well as other videos of the same vehicle. In comments on the video he mentions breaking an axle as well as suspecting the distributor cap came off during the climb. I'm not sure how you would determine the cap came off during the climb rather than the rollover, but if the owner knew his vehicle well enough then it's possible he knew the fail to start was as a result of the cap. In the uncut video one of the guys uphill can heard saying: "Why didn't he wait for the f#cking winch".

Yep, I'd say a 3.5 V8 Range Rover carb engine, so yes, will have a brake booster servo. Hand Brake should have been good though as no obvioous oil contamination! It could either be a 3 spd auto or a 4/5 spd manual, hard to tell. but going for the auto to be fairas I don't think the manual would have held power out that long. I'd have probably got the guy out there to get the winch line to something, anything... I suspect it wasn't that he was loosing brake pressure through mechanical means, more through body just can't hold the pedal so hard for long. It does show how a few little different inputs can make something go so much more wrong. Looking at the hill, I'm not sure he'd have got down in one bit whatever, kinda a "do or die" hill really.

@overlandready

10 ай бұрын

The other thing to add, at those angles, lifted suspension is not your friend, it allows the body to roll more, so just adds to the potential for a disaster. 😞

Ahhhh. You should of called me. You know I’m the Vic 4wd guru 😂. I know the guy that filmed this. I was even meant to be on the trip with them.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Oh yikes. So now I have to talk to you again. 😂😂 I’ll call you soon.

I like the way you break down the incident without making the driver look like an idiot

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

We all have bad days. I’ve had them and I’m sure you have too.

Would it help to crank it in the 1. gear?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

If the starter ad the grunt which I doubt

I’d say it stalled because it’s a manual and he stalled it by letting off both throttle and clutch to jump on the brakes And I’d have the agree that it is the highcountry, I’ve been going there since I was a kid as it’s local to me

I think the two biggest mistakes were that 1) when his front wheel lifted off the ground and he stopped going forwards, he should have stopped so that his car didn't wedge itself in more sideways. 2) after he ended up in the situation where the car was stalled and sideways, he should have just winched out. Though... I suppose if his brakes just failed then he wouldn't have had time for that, so go back to point #1 :\

Was that Andrew St Pierre White behind the driving wheel?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Maybe an unnecessary comment ah? Not sure what you mean.

Lack of control from use of manual transmission. Autos are best for offroad unless you have a highly geared transfer case >100:1 final drive. Too many mistakes occur on inclines with manuals. Stalling leads to no brake boost unless you're running an electric over hydraulic system like in the Rovers.

Oh , dash , bother, and blow. It was a decent sausage roll. Hope all is OK.

According to the original video it was a 120 Prado. It’s not very clear but I can’t see the Land Rover stepped roof or the safari windows.

@contributor7219

10 ай бұрын

It's a Range Rover - late eighties or pre second half of 1991. We've owned four over the years and still own our '93. The original uncut video is up on the owner's KZread channel along with other videos of the same vehicle (see my comment elsewhere). Classic Rangies don't have a stepped roof or safari windows.

@cyclemoto8744

10 ай бұрын

It's clearly an RR and not a Prado

@davidhowell5945

10 ай бұрын

Yes of course you’re right. My ageing brain was thinking Disco, not RR. Apologies. 😊

Number one thing to do in a stall like that is secure the vehicle, ignition off, 1st gear, low range, handbrake, then take a few deep breaths to reassess. Get out and look around and assess where your wheels need to go. If you have a winch, use it. If you don't, leave it in gear, 1st gear, low range, hold the handbrake and turn the key. A vehicle like that will pull forward on the starter motor in low range first, and will probably start. If it does, apply just enough throttle to crawl out. If it doesn't, resecure the car again and reassess.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I agree for the most part but I doubt the starter would have the grunt. Thats a really steep hill and i think he may have oversize tyres. I have used the starter many times in the past though.

I’m guessing Brown Gouge did well out of this one.

I see a lot of videos on You Tube with people pushing there vehicles some with more knowledge than others and wonder if these give the less experienced drivers dutch courage.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

It certainly could be a factor. I’m not sure the level of experience here. I doubt he’s a novice.

But they had a lot of fun I think. We know better is his opinion

This happened about 4 years ago roughly on ortons track just out of dargo vhc. Ortons track is in the top 10 hardest tracks in aus. Recommended only experienced drivers with well set-up vehicles and diff lockers.. Turning the wheels full lock the other way 100% would of been the wrong thing to do, crossed up like that on the angle Turning the wheels will of made him roll sooner. It's a steep track and i mean steep... This fella wasn't the first to roll here and most certainly won't be the last

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Apparently called no4 track. It’s closed now I’m told.

@jacksegond7163

10 ай бұрын

@MadMatt4WD nah it was ortons track dargo. Deep creek 4 in Walhalla is very much open, my go to loop is Deep creek 1, dog leg onto deep creek 4, travel downs binns road to deep creek 5, than on to deep creek 2 than onto gladstons track back to maidentown rd and travel up to fultons creek track.

@lochieallenby5791

10 ай бұрын

It’s definitely deep creek, it’s just a side track around the main track. And the video is much older than 4 years ago.

I would be wearing my seatbelt as a lap rather than fully in that situation unless a Roll Bar fitted

@MadMatt4WD

5 ай бұрын

Wow

What if he put the car in reverse and keep starting the engine while going backwards? He might have got his brakes back. Or using the winch? I guess everything happened so fast and he didn't think it'd be that bad. Hopefully they are fine.

@MadMatt4WD

9 ай бұрын

Going back was what rolled him. Yes the winch would have been good and his spotter was saying wait for me to winch. Also they’re fine now

Not sure how fast they were actually going - it looked like parts of the video had been sped up?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

We’ll fast enough to get two front wheels off the ground.

@BenMitro

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Yes, up hill.

I use the handbrake when I am in these situations if I can. Gives me a spare foot to work with.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

That’s certainly a good idea and should be done but consider. It’s quite possible way to steep for the hand brake to do much. It’s certainly unlikely to hold the vehicle. It’s possibly wet due to crossing creeks on the trail. And if I remember right these run a tail shaft handbrake which means it only works on one wheel due to the differential action. So yes use it but it would have unlikely stopped this happening.

@duggydo

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Yeah. I think it's worthwhile setting up a handbrake to handle the loads for offroad. Some rigs may not even have a handbrake, instead a foot activated park brake which doesn't help the situation either. A good set of lockers front and rear are extremely handy as well. In the absence of all that, it's worthwhile walking the trail and doing a proper risk assessment of the things that can go wrong.

@speeddemon4312

10 ай бұрын

You have to be careful when adjusting handbrakes. Too little and they're not much good. Too much can cause them to lock up when hot, or wear brakes out prematurely.

Jeepers thats a rollon my goodness never had this happen

“Send-it” can be a fatal disease.😬

That winch should've come out ASAP. End of story

@maxgood42

10 ай бұрын

Absolutly , I see to many vids and 4x4's with the wrong attitute "This thing can go ANYWHERE" I can take a 2wd with a winch most places a 4x4 goes (sort of you get the idea). Modified 4wds do need a higher skill set, years ago a Toyota with cheese cutters would have made it up that slowly and with some winch here and there if needed and that was the norm , but now we have MEGA 4WD colture. would be nice to see window stickers that read "A lot of Planning went into this"

Did he make it out okay?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes they lived

@AntonioClaudioMichael

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD wow Thats great To Hear Matt

Should have had 12 to 15psi in tyres. Should have stalled it in gear, selected reverse, restarted engine. Should have steered to keep it perpendicular to the contour. Should keep arms inside the windows.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

What pressure did he have? We don’t know he may have been at those pressure. If it’s auto how do you stall it in gear? (Like you I do think it’s a manual) The point I’m making is it’s easy to assume when we simply don’t have the information to make the assumptions.

@rhetth-s8082

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD the information in the video suggests the tyre pressures were not 12 to 15 psi. The tyres visually, plus, if they were running 12 to 15 psi they wouldnt have driven that fast.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

I’ve raced on 12psi. But treps have a decent side wall. Again we have to be careful with the Assumptions. I’m not saying your wrong necessarily. And certainly a low tyre pressure is a good thing.

@rhetth-s8082

10 ай бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD i am not saying i think its a certainty that the tyre pressures were higher, just that in my view the evidence suggests they were. If the driver was experienced enough to realise that 12 to 15psi was the best pressure, they would also likely be experienced enough to know that at that pressure they could crawl up or use a gentle pace to safely get to the top. People almost exclusively only use that much momentum in a recreational setting when their tyre pressures are too high. The track looks regularly driven, i dont see plants growing on it, it doesnt strike me as a comp car track.

@jobail01

10 ай бұрын

Wow a lot of assumptions right there, unless you were there then you don't have the facts, plain and simple. Maybe the real answer is shouldn't have attempted the climb in the first place, however they did and we can clearly see the outcome. I look at it and ask myself the question, do I really need to get up that hill and what am I risking, maybe consider us emergency service workers that end up having to perform the rescue or worse clean up after a fatality, just not worth the risk.

Original here, including comments by the driver. You can also hear people calling out “why didn’t he wait for the winch”. The guy in the red shirt was communicating about setting up a winch and the driver declined. kzread.info/dash/bejne/oGucrMWHYKixoKQ.html

The un-used winch could have saved all that, It's hard to think straight with the adrenaline coursing through you though.

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I think Adrenalin would have played a big part in this.