As a convert, I absolutely understand. You are amoung a group of excommunicated members and leaders who asked questions. It is that those who asked talked to others. Right now, I've stepped away. I've been away 20+ years. I miss the innocent person I was. I miss my blind faith. But maybe that's good. God doesnt want us to be stupid.

@johns1834

2 ай бұрын

Interesting comment. Faith is a key element for salvation, but there is nothing wrong with studying and learning the truth, hence 'blind faith' and not possibly not learning the truth is dangerous. Do you attend any churches now?

I always wondered where I got my self worth from task lists...it was a little joke I said about myself. But when I realized through this video exactly why and how I got that way! 🤯

How to I obtain a BofM student manual you quoted from concerning "grace"?

Thank you for your service

Thank you for sharing your time to open up the blindness of some members of Mormons..I'm sharing your KZread content to my Facebook😊

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

The two groups of people who are least informed about Mormon history on the planet are a) Outer Mongolians and b) active, believing Mormons.

You find this in all Faiths.

@robertrlkatz6890

2 ай бұрын

Bryan, what do we find in all Faiths? Could you name a few things that you believe is in all Faiths that you feel are contrary to the Word of God in the Bible?

Leaving the LDS church isn’t a bad idea, but this guy isn’t being completely honest. Lots of exaggerations, lots of speculation, lots of misinformation.

@fuffymarca2918

2 ай бұрын

Oh yes he is!! Do the research!!

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@fuffymarca2918 And what if someone 'does the research' and finds he is exaggerating etc?

@unholywarrior9007

2 ай бұрын

Leave and go to the false trinity doctrine? No thanks

@darkforgiven360

Ай бұрын

​​@@OntheOtherHandVideos then you find out what is true. Truth is not biased. Truth is truth regardless of where it is at.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

Ай бұрын

@@darkforgiven360 I agree - and I find that this guy is biased and is not presenting the truth.

Totally agree, mormons have been deceived and Yes we are saved by grace, but NO we were not saved by ‘grace alone’. The Bible never says we are saved by grace alone as Mr Baker stated at minute 18 or so. Ephesians 2:8 by grace we are saved, but read verse 10, for good works.The Bible also says baptism saves you and we must obey the commandments.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

So if members of the Church of Jesus Christ agree with you on this topic, how would said members be 'deceived'?

@johns1834

2 ай бұрын

@@OntheOtherHandVideos I'm agreeing with you that the mormon church is a false church and it's members have been deceived, by a false prophet and false leadership. However, you said we are saved by 'grace alone', which is not true. Saved by grace YES of course, but 'grace alone' is not Biblical. We have to cooperate with that grace because we are created in Christ Jesus for 'good works', which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. Good works, for example, would be feeding, clothing, housing the poor per Matthew 25: 31-46. Mormons do believe in helping the poor and might be better at that than many other churches. Also, what evidence do you have that Jimmy Carter threaten loss of tax exemption if blacks were not included in Mormon priesthood? I searched and couldn’t find anything solid on that, other than some unfounded reports in news articles. If you can back statements like that up with fact, then best to not to stuff something like, because it impacts your own credibility.

I believe in “ the Bible “ ! Rev chapter 20 verses 12 and 13 stating how the dead called up and “ judged according to their works”!

@johns1834

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely, Mr. Baker said 'grace alone' which is equally not Biblical.

@UTBanjo

2 ай бұрын

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

It’s interesting to me that the objectors of this speaker don’t address the issues he addresses from the LDS authorities regarding the numerous changes in LDS doctrine.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

What specific issues would you like to see addressed?

@robertrlkatz6890

2 ай бұрын

@@OntheOtherHandVideos Are you a believer in the Mormon Doctrine? I see that you must have something to do with Videos. If you do I think I might have something that you might think would be interesting to know.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@robertrlkatz6890 I'm a believer in my Savior Jesus Christ and His Restored Church on the earth. Haha, what 'secret knowledge' do you have? Usually when presented like this it's a non-issue quote from an obscure journal that is either unsubstantiated or taken out of context, but I'm always game to hear what others find important.

@robertrlkatz6890

2 ай бұрын

@@OntheOtherHandVideos I realized after several years of writing to LDS people on KZread, I found out something a few days ago, after I read some of your comments, I got my answer. I thought when I read your first comment, I wasn’t sure if you was a LDS member, now I know that you are. I find that LDS members that take a negative view of the KZread that was playing, those people are not willing to think of anything else than what they have been indoctrinated with but I do find those that give a thoughtful response without all the negativity, this person is willing to listen to someone that is presenting something that they disagree on the frontend but are willing to take a pause from the staunch belief system that they have been under and are willing to at least give some thought of what someone else has to say and those people do have more of a likelihood of leaving the church. I do realize that the likelihood that OntheOtherHand will never change his mind no matter what truth is given. I know that when Bishop Lee Baker 32 years in the Church is showing actual Documentation that is proven and can be proven, yet you will say that a lot of it are just plain lies when you know they are not. His whole desire is that others through him will find the same truth that he has found in the Bible itself. I am going to show you something that I have never seen written or talked about, I only found this out because the Lord put it on my heart when I came across it. When I showed this to James Baldwin an LDS member, all he could say to me is, “The New Testament biblical verses which also appear in the Book of Mormon, are there because both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, ultimately come from the same sourse (the Lord). He is really the author and the words are His. It is His Gospel and it is unchangeable.” I am sure you believe exactly that, this is why I put it here so you don’t have to give me this same answer that does not hold any water because God told us this over 2,000 years ago. James even uses the word unchangeable which obviously has no meaning to him to be saying this. It is only when Joseph Smith decided to deceive the people because he read, (This is what I wanted to show you OntheOtherHand) I ask you to read the same verses that J.S. did, Galatians 1:8-9 and Isaiah 28:10 and tell me why he then wrote 2 Nephi 28:29-30, 2 Nephi 29:10, 2 Nephi 27:14, Ether 4:8, Alma 12:10, I beg of you to take a real pause from what you have been taught. I ask will you take the time to read all of these verses, and then tell me truly why he would change these verses the way he did. OntheOtherHand the Bible is a completed book over 2,000 years ago. Why would God an unchangeable God who is, Omniscience (All-knowing), Omnipotence (All-powerful), and Omnibenevolence (Supremely good) Why would God over 2,000 years later say oh by the way lets change the meaning of Galatians so that we can now add the Book of Mormon and I will again say the same thing that I had written 2,000 years ago. The only reason this is in the B.O.M. is because Joseph Smith had to cover his butt, so people would not see him as a fraudster, of course there are people that are going to believe what anyone is going to say and will not even give thought to doubting it because this was from their man J.S. God is not a changing God and He certainly is not this wishy washy being that this would make Him out to be. If you looked at about the 14th commenter on this KZread Video under “joycegrover” you will find “psmith” this person is an LDS member and tells us that Brigham Young, “was a murderer, liar, a thief, and an absolute scoundrel.” Psmith says, that he was like Judas Iscariot, Ps has total disdain for Brigham and yet is a believer in Joseph Smith. Yet you have a college that bares his name, why would this person still have anything to do with Mormonism? I would think it to be nice if you could give me some thoughtful caring response but I will not hold my breath. I am not bitter or mad at you, I only care for you to find the truth as I did over 42 years ago. I have a Joy that I had never known before that time and have had it ever since.

@robertrlkatz6890

2 ай бұрын

@@OntheOtherHandVideos I tried to write to you but for some reason the algorithm of KZread did not allow me to send. I will try to send it in pieces I will try to NUMBER them so you will see the order that you should read them.

I guess if you seek with your HEAD and not your HEART you can and will find anything you want. Fact is, I received a witness, a burning in the bosom or so it is called when I was converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I cannot deny nor forget that witness; and if you have truly received a witness you would not be able to forget nor deny either. And if you have not received this witness from the Holy Ghost you will not abide the trials you will face in these days with all the nay sayers, and doubters. But if you follow the exortation in Moroni 10:3-5 you can receive this witness if you have a sincere heart. If there be any mistakes they are are the mistakes of man. And we all know we make mistakes. But the Church is true. Joseph was a prophet. The keys of the priesthood have been restored to the earth and have continued on through time with the Prophets and Apostles and the Priesthood. You can convince yourselves that it is not true and hang on to your favorite sins, or you can endure to the end and have the promised blessings. Choice is given to each of us. Choose ye this day. And if this is not the true church, how do you explain all the miracles from the start to now, and we can see many miracles today, if you have eyes to see.

@MrNirom1

2 ай бұрын

I too received confirmation from the Holy Ghost who is the testifier of ALL TRUTH. And please... it was not just one time. In taking the discussions with the Missionaries while serving in the Army in Germany in 1977... I was testified to about so many things that I can't count them. I was born Catholic and I received a testimony while in Catechism that told me that the doctrine of the Trinity was a false Doctrine. Imagine my surprise and delight to be witnessed to again during the missionary discussions that the doctrine of the Trinity was FALSE. I can forget none of that!! It still holds true today as it did in 1977.

@marilynwatene1480

2 ай бұрын

@@MrNirom1 Oh wonderful. I often have the Holy Ghost witness to me, but I only had one burning experience.(Maybe because the Lord knows how hardheaded I am, I needed something to shake me) I also have had many experiences in the temple, where I felt like I almost could have said, as the Brother of Jared...Show thyself. But I didn't. ;) It is sad to see so many tearing down the only true church on the face of the earth...but anyone can find the truth. That is what is so sad about it. All they have to do is the spiritual legwork...pray, seek, knock. I am so happy to hear of your journey to the truth.

God bless you. For helping people who love God to see the truth. I have research and I surprised that people who read the whole Bible believed what Joseph Smith try to teach Christian people who love God. So sad. Greatful your bring the truth up. Im greatful for your testimony.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

What things that are taught in the Church of Jesus Christ "surprise you"?

@brucegillingham2793

2 ай бұрын

@@OntheOtherHandVideos God is an exalted man from Kolab. Jesus is the spirit child of God and the brother of Satan. LDS men can become gods. marriages can be sealed for eternity. Polygamy. Preisthood authority. Everything that takes away from what Jesus the Christ (God in the flesh) came to earth to say and do.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@brucegillingham2793 "God is an exalted man from Kolab" "Kolob" is a star near where God dwells - if your going to throw out exaggerated straw-men, at least do it right. "Jesus is the spirit child of God and the brother of Satan." Yes, Jesus is the Son of God. Go figure. And unless Heavenly Father created the devil 'ex-nihilo' just so we could be miserable, it only makes sense that Satan (like all of us) was a spiritual Child of God that chose to rebel and do evil. "LDS men can become gods" Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" "marriages can be sealed for eternity" Mathew 18:18 "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" Polygamy - see Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc Priesthood authority - see Moses to Joshua, Elijah to Elisha, John the Baptist, the Apostles etc "Everything that takes away from what Jesus the Christ (God in the flesh) came to earth to say and do." Be specific or else it just looks like you're relying on people to agree with you by default rather than engage in good faith with the topics at hand.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@brucegillingham2793 Second try - first response disappeared. "God is an exalted man from Kolab" "Kolob" is the star closest to God - 'if you're going to insult me, do it properly'. And you imply something that some speculate but that isn't doctrine. "Jesus is the spirit child of God and the brother of Satan." Yes, Christ is the Son of God. Go figure. And unless you believe God created the devil ex-nihilo (literally creating the problem of evil), Satan must have been a being created and able to choose good from evil - like a spirit child of God. "LDS men can become gods" Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" "marriages can be sealed for eternity" Matthew 18:18 "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" Polygamy - see Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc Priesthood authority - see Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, John the Baptist, the 12 Apostles, etc If you would like to engage with these topics, I'm happy to talk! But you don't seem to have knowledge of what members of the Church of Jesus Christ actually believe (let alone what Biblical scriptures might say on the subject), instead you seem to have second hand knowledge of common talking points and assume they are all accurate or that there is no justification for them.

@holinesstothelord7468

2 ай бұрын

@@brucegillingham2793 Third try - first two responses disappeared, so this is a different account but I'm the same person as OntheOtherHandVideos. "God is an exalted man from Kolab" "Kolob" is the star closest to God - 'if you're going to insult me, do it properly' And you imply something that some speculate but that isn't doctrine. "Jesus is the spirit child of God and the brother of Satan." Yes, Christ is the Son of God. Go figure. And unless you believe God created the devil ex-nihilo (literally creating the problem of evil), Satan must have been a being created and able to choose good from evil - like a spirit child of God. "LDS men can become gods" Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" "marriages can be sealed for eternity" Matthew 18:18 "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" Polygamy - see Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc Priesthood authority - see Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, John the Baptist, the 12 Apostles, etc If you would like to engage with these topics, I'm happy to talk! But you don't seem to have knowledge of what members of the Church of Jesus Christ actually believe (let alone what Biblical scriptures might say on the subject), instead you seem to have second hand knowledge of common talking points and assume they are all accurate or that there is no justification for them.

And a bishop leaves and the church goes on. We worship Jesus christ not Joseph Smith

@johnnyscoolstuff8427

2 ай бұрын

The Church is bleeding out ! people are awakening to the fact that it’s a lie. I’ve never seen such an exodus in my life

@mdcarson

2 ай бұрын

@@johnnyscoolstuff8427people leaving the church does NOT prove that there is anything wrong with the church. Some may be leaving, but it MAY have more to do with deception of people who call themselves Bishop, wear a black name badge and are not completely transparent and pick more cherries than a cherry farmer. On the other hand, so many are joining the Church-awakening to the truth of the restored gospel and joining The Church of Jesus Christ.

@l.tavakepaongo4205

Ай бұрын

Agree 100%

As a TBM who has worked with FAIR and done many podcasts for them you need to have me on air or as a guest to explain many misunderstanding of gospel principles, doctrines and covenants....no Ranker, disrespect or anger will offered

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

LOL. Are you aware that one of the three co-founders of FAIR, Kerry Shirts, concluded that Mormonism is false a decade ago, and now hosts his own KZread channel in which he discusses the fraud of Mormonism?

@IBNED

2 ай бұрын

​​@@randyjordan5521 I am aware...Kerry is one smart man and deals with the real instead of the vanilla version put forth by the Church. I and many others put forth the Steven Robinson/Brad Wicox style of "Jesus" has taken upon Himself past, present and all future sin and He is the "only" way. 2 Nephi 9:41....I know Kerry separated himself from FAIR but he would not respond to my emails....I will check out his current site....still interested in being in a straight forward discussion with you

@IBNED

2 ай бұрын

​@@randyjordan5521 The BYP is not the Kerry I knew...

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

@@IBNED Do yourself a favor: Go to a KZread video titled "1591: The Book of Abraham Translation Evidence w/ The Backyard Professor". Forward to the 22 minute mark and listen to Kerry list the people who helped him conclude that Mormonism is false. I am that Randy Jordan who Kerry mentions. I have studied these issues for nearly 30 years, and I have posted hundreds of articles on the internet re: Mormon subjects. Some of my material has been included on the Mormonthink website. Jeremy Runnells used some of my material to compile his "Letter To A CES Director." In 2002, I was invited to speak at a conference in SLC on Mormon issues. The other speakers were Sandra Tanner of Utah Lighthouse Ministries, Australian geneticist and former LDS bishop Simon Southerton, RLDS historical researcher Dale Broadhurst, and Utah historian Will Bagley, who had just published his book "Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows." I had already bought and read Will's book, and I had studied so much about the MMM that Will autographed my copy "To Randy, who knows this awful tale all too well." I was chosen to be the after-dinner speaker at that conference because of my years of experience in debating Mormon issues with Mormon apologists such as Kerry and numerous other Mormon scholars. I titled my remarks "Faith vs. Facts." So I don't that there would be much point in you having a "straight forward discussion" with me, because you will most certainly lose every point you bring up. BTW I knew Brad Wilcox's wife when I was a 21 year old RM and she was a 17 year old beauty. All I have to say about Brad Wilcox is that he "married up."

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

@@IBNED "The BYP is not the Kerry I knew..." He's the same guy. He's just wised up over the last quarter century. If you would like to see a sample of my research and writings, and my dealings with Kerry and other apologists from the year 2000, you can go to the Recovery From Mormonism bulletin board, go to the search feature, and read my posts titled "For newbies---refuting Mormon apologists on the Book of Abraham."

I see you were at the Manti temple, I stay at the campground next to it so I can dump my sewage after camping in the mountains. None mormon here, but the mountains are amazing.

@threegreendown414

2 ай бұрын

You're a real classy guy.

@olyheat

2 ай бұрын

​@threegreendown414 Thank you. I could dump for free, but I chose to support the nice people at the campground.

Just hope you don’t all feel that his explanations are solid- take to the bank - only explanations!!! Again left scratching my head!

@botofogo2212

2 ай бұрын

Joyce, why are you scratching your head? This notion of Grace is a small sliver of why Mormonism isn't "the" true church. There are a hundreds of reasons. And one big one is the dishonesty, unabashed lying of the leadership. Goes back to the beginning with the First Vision. Moreover, and more dastardly is when the early missionaries lied to potential converts about polygamy in Europe. The churxh had a pamphlet that stated that in no uncertain terms, did the Mormons practice polygamy. Lie, lie, lie!!! To quote the Book of Mormon ..."Wow unto the liar for he shall be thrust down to hell"!

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

So, how do you feel about Joseph Smith plural marrying eleven women who were currently married to other men, and having sex with many of them? You got any problem with Joseph Smith sending apostle Orson Hyde to dedicate Palestine for the return of the Jews, and while Hyde was gone, Joseph plural married his wife Marinda? You got any problem with Joseph Smith telling apostle Heber C. Kimball in 1843 that he (Joseph) wanted his wife Vilate for a plural wife, and Heber asked Joseph to take his 14-year-old daughter Helen instead? You got any problem with a 37-year-old married man who had a legal wife and several young children at home "plural marrying" a girl who was barely older than his oldest child at the time?

@psmith535

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@randyjordan5521How do I feel about Joseph Smith and his marriage? I actually feel really good about it, according to Emma, he was an amazing husband, an amazing father, and an amazing man of integrity. As far as your accusation of him being married to more than one woman, you’ve got to realize you are buying into Brigham Young’s nonsense. Brigham knew that Joseph and Hyrum were heavily opposed to plural marriage, that’s why he had them killed, as in murdered, as in Joseph, Hyrum and Samuel. Joseph and Hyrum were heavily opposed to plural marriage, that’s why he had them killed, as in murdered, as in Joseph, Hyrum and Samuel. Joseph fought tooth and nail against polygamy. Joseph and Brigham were just about to have a come to Jesus and Brigham was going to get excommunicated for his secret shenanigans. The current LDS church still continues the belief that Joseph practiced plural marriage even though everything he said, and everything he wrote was in opposition to it. The LDS church makes Joseph out to be a liar, he either lied about it, and then practiced what he preached against, or he did not. I believe he did not. The LDS church is false. It’s just an extension of Brigham Young‘s Brighamite church. God never called anyone to fill the shoes of Joseph after he was murdered. A dozen different men felt like they were the likely replacements for Joseph and they began to teach the restored gospel with their own understanding. Brigham took the majority and went west. Brigham added all kinds of stupid crap that was never a part of the original restored gospel. Polygamy was the biggest one. Brigham, Heber C Kimball, John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff were among some of the biggest liars of their time. Women lied about their marriages to Joseph to give credence and support to Brigham‘s passion for multiple women and spiritual wifery. Even married women lied about being married to Joseph. Brigham was as sorry as they get. He was a murderer, a liar, a thief, and an absolute scoundrel. It doesn’t surprise me at all that he was once called to be an apostle of the Lord by Joseph Smith, because Judas Iscariot did a similar thing by selling out the Savior himself, and actually being implicit in the crucifixion of the Savior. God lives, Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith is a true prophet, and the book of Mormon is true. Anything, and everything that had to do with Brigham Young is an abomination to God.

@psmith535

2 ай бұрын

@@randyjordan5521 The whole Helen Mar Kimball story is a bunch of garbage. Her father, Heber C Kimball and Brigham Young were best of friends since their youth. They were both freemasons, and they were both extremely dishonest. Both of them had pussy on their mind 24/7. They had 99 wives between the two of them. Joseph Smith had only one wife and that was Emma. Believe what you will, but I gladly believe Joseph.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@randyjordan5521 And tell me, what did that 'marriage to the 14 year old Helen' consist of? Was it a spiritual sealing only? And by what standard are you judging these instances - societal standards that change, or eternal standards of God?

18:58 It is ABSOLUTELY a lie from Satan that you are saved by grace alone AND that a belief in Jesus alone saves and nothing further is required for salvation. Satan and his devils know Jesus are they saved by grace? NO. Because if you truly believe in Jesus YOU WILL FOLLOW HIM AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS (ie. if you love me keep my commandments) So if you believe grace alone and faith alone (both manmade doctrines of Luther resulting from the great apostasy) and do not do His will, you are a hearer only and not a doer and are built on a foundation of sand. The words of Jesus are clear, Matt 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. On the day of pentecost Peter made it clear what everyone had to do to be saved - Acts 2:37-39, 47 repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and receive the holy ghost - ...and the Lord added to the church daily such as SHOULD BE SAVED. This is how they are saved and obtain the grace of Jesus Christ. Just as the LDS teach - Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism, Holy Ghost, Enduring to the end. We receive His grace from beginning to end in spite of all we can do. I'm sorry for what you've experienced. May God bless you to return to your first love. Peace be with you

Jesus not in the game? The game is Jesus! Goodness past Bishop! What is the Docterine of Christ? Faith, repentance, Baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost! You ck that box then say Christ not in the game? Every step in game is involving Christ and you can stand before that group and say this game is proof Christ is not in the game because the word Christ is not mentioned! Goodness, goodness, you have me scratching my head!!!!

@randyjordan5521

2 ай бұрын

You may not be aware that in the early 1830s, the LDS church was known by "The Church of the Latter Day Saints". The words "Jesus Christ" were added in 1838 because some church members objected to its omission. In 1844, Joseph Smith began teaching his doctrine of "eternal progression," which holds that God was once a man like us, and that he "progressed" to his current position, and that every worthy Mormon man can progress to be gods themselves. Those man-gods can then rule over their own planets, and spend eternity producing "spirit children" with their many "plural" or "spiritual" wives. That heavenly promise was a big aspect of Smith's plural marriage doctrine and practice. That was the origin of the Mormon belief that salvation is not attained by Christ's sacrifice alone, and that people must perform tasks and ordinances in order to be rewarded with the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Those heretical and unChristian doctrines and practices were among the objections that some of Smith's high-ranking followers opposed during the last few months of Smith's life. In fact, it was the public exposure of those issues which led directly to Joseph's and Hyrum's deaths. Nevertheless, after their deaths, Joseph's successors, led by Brigham Young, continued to advocate those doctrines, and they still remain orthodox teachings in the Utah LDS Church today. Over the last 25-30 years, LDS church leaders, perhaps with help from PR professionals, have worked to emphasize Christ more. This is undoubtedly because of complaints from Christian groups and perhaps even some LDS church members that Christ and His role are not mentioned enough in church meetings and curriculum. It was a common complaint during my 42 years as a Mormon, ending in 1998, that often, the only time you heard the name of Jesus Christ during an entire meeting was during the closing prayer. So, LDS church leaders have been proactively working to change that in recent years in order to minimize criticism and to appear more in line with modern orthodox Protestant Christianity. The entire thrust of those efforts have been to gain more members or to prevent current members from leaving.

@DKMELT

2 ай бұрын

The problem is Mormans aren't looking to Christ for salvation. They are depending on the LDS church and works. Not to mention the extra biblical doctrine. If you boil it all down, it's just another legalistic false church.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@DKMELT Lol, and how do you know where 'Mormans' look for salvation? How do you know members "depend on the church and works". And yes, extra-biblical doctrines are fundamental to Christians - most denominations cite the creeds, yet those are extra-biblical. The common push back is 'but the creeds just say what is already in the scriptures', yet when one is honest, they recognize that the creeds are **a specific interpretation** of scripture - and then we get into a conversation about authority, and Protestants who rely on "Sola Scriptora" tend to do so without any justifiable foundation beyond appeals to popularity or appeal to tradition.

@tawneenielsen4080

2 ай бұрын

I am active LDS, but know your history and be honest with yourself. JS even said he was himself higher than Christ. Brigham Young said it was JS people would need to pass through to her to heaven. The blood atonement was all about putting the leaders of the church above Jesus Christ because the atonement wouldn't work for them, so it was better to kill people, whom the leaders decided should be killed and spill their blood to make it to heaven. The temple work. Christ and God can't get you into heaven, but as Heber C Kimball said, the masonic signs and tokens were made perfect in the endownment ceremony. So christ isn't enough to get us in, but signs, secret sayings, slitting throats is. I love a lot of our teachings and community, but to say Christ is our center, that's just not true.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@tawneenielsen4080 "JS even said he was himself higher than Christ." Pics (exact quote with reference) or it didn't happen "So christ isn't enough to get us in, but signs, secret sayings, slitting throats is. This is as bad faith a reading as one can get - 'God will force no man to heaven' aka God won't override our agency. And since 'no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God', each person has to **willingly chose** to accept the Atonement of Christ **through the methods He set forth**. What you are arguing here is like saying 'Christ and God can't get you into heaven, but getting dunked under water can.' The water at baptism and the act doesn't matter if there is no willingness of the person to change, or repent, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward commitment. Baptism doesn't 'get us into heave' - the Atonement of Christ gets us into heaven if we are willing to use it, and Christ said in order to harness His Atonement we have to be baptized, and then live according to the promise we make at baptism.

Concerning the Book of Abraham, it was originally criticized for that figues did not match the Boik of Abraham and that they were merely ordinary funeral texts and that the Egyptians did not do human sacrifices, however, it was later discivered that that was wrong, and you dint have to be an Egyptilogist! Just lookbat the figure! The man in the altar has his eyes open and his arms snd legs hanging, and instead if the knufe being held in a positiin which would be simply to remive organs, the knife is lifted as to kill! You are an ignirantbfool Continued...

@ElderJoseph

2 ай бұрын

They ARE Egyptian Funeral scrolls and have nothing to do with Abraham or the nonsense stuff Smith claimed to 'translate'. Smith made it all up. There are suckers born every minute.

@brucegillingham2793

2 ай бұрын

Are you calling the LDS church a liar? The LDS church admits that the BoA didn't come from the Egyptian texts but served as inspiration. This statement acknowledges that is was a fraud but refuses to acknowledge Joseph Smith's Book, and writing showing his step by step translation process.

The way you talk about the church is the way a leftist talks about America. They would decimate the freest country in human history, inspired by God himself. This church is not only good, it's Christ's church. I don't know who you're talking to or what this is for, but in studying these things for the last twelve years, I could have countered everything you said up there, but I don't have the time. I will say one thing though, you ARE cherry-picking if you pick out a game in a random "friend" magazine and try to use it as a bludgeon against one of the most beautiful doctrines on the face of the earth. And by the way, it's entirely about Christ. 1. Premortal world- we chose Jesus Christ over Lucifer, 2. Get a body- Had faith that Christ would follow through on the atonement. 3. Get baptized- covenant to follow Jesus forever. 4.Receive the holy ghost- receive revelation from God and Christ about truth. 5. Take the sacrament- remember Christ's sacrifice and have faith in the cleansing of our sins weekly, 6. Keep the commandments- Mirror Christ in his actions 7. Go to the Temple- Covenant the highest commandments to Christ, wear the garment (Represents Christ's purity) 8. Get sealed to husband-seal yourself and your husband to Christ, have children in the covenant you made with Christ 9. Be resurrected- Glory in Christ's atonement with an everlasting body. You should be ashamed, especially discouraging black members from enjoying the fruits of the gospel. You were prideful in the church and you are prideful out.

@MrNirom1

2 ай бұрын

@@THEREFORMIST Well... you got me and that is not true. Born and raised Catholic!! Now and still a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since 1977 while in the Army in Germany.... join the only church in the world that teaches ALL truth. That is why it is called the TRUE church.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@THEREFORMIST You seem to be assuming that others haven't 'educated themselves' like you have - this goes back to the cited "way a leftist talks". Perhaps those who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ have looked elsewhere and found every other sect lacking.

@OntheOtherHandVideos

2 ай бұрын

@@THEREFORMIST Haha, if he's not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, he isn't a bishop anymore, nor has he ever been my bishop. Well good news, I also believe the Bible literally! The question is, what does it mean to be 'literal', and who gets to decide what it means if there is ambiguity or potentially multiple viable interpretations? Who decides what is a 'correct' reading of the Bible, and what is 'incorrect'? As far as "as it is translated correctly" - well yes, everyone who reads the Bible in English believes in the Bible "as it is translated correctly" - because none of the books in the Bible were written in English, nor were they all written at one time, by one author, or even by authors who all agreed on everything or who had the same cultural and theological knowledge and assumptions.

@johns1834

2 ай бұрын

LDS are some of the nicest, most dedicated, and caring people I know. Christians of other denominations would do well to copy LDS moral zeal for God and Jesus Christ (as they know him), morality, and family values. Jesus Christ established one Church (not churches) to stand against the gates of Hades, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and Jesus promised to be with us until the end of the age. Jesus Christ is the Good Shepard who will not abandon his flock or leave us orphaned; saying; "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep". John 10:11. “I will not leave you orphaned; I will come to you." John 14:18. "Lo, I am with you, even until the end of the age." Matthew 28:20. Now that mormon jesus is 'another' jesus. Even mormons readily admit he abandoned his flock not just once, but 'twice'. The mormon jesus is like the hireling who pretends to be a shepard, but runs away when the wolf (evil men) come around, which is exactly what a brother of satan would do; "He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep". John 10:12-13. The Apostle Paul who warns of teaching ‘another ‘Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." You will know them by their fruits, for example, mormons desecrate Jesus after every Sunday service, when the left over ‘blessed and sanctified bread and water, symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, is unceremoniously thrown into the trash like common garbage or poured down the sewer to mix with human feces. (P.S. mormon are in good company because baptist who do the same thing) Incredibly, the mormon jesus now promises to keep his word the 3rd time, and enjoys being thrown in trash after church, as lds leadership smile, speak of their love for Jesus, the goodness of the mormon church, and a typical mormon truly believes God is happy with that.

@working4ever

2 ай бұрын

​@@johns1834 If you're talking about the apostasy, all of his apostles were killed. No matter what God did, the current cultural climate would not accept him. He cannot force the world to listen to him, only wait until they are ready. Secondly, who has he abandoned? Not a single soul. Not even those in the apostasy. Christ will not forget them either,. Unlike mainstream Christians who believe that if you don't accept him before death, you're damned to hell. In that case, God has abandoned 99% of his children! Including infants. Your "Christ", your God is not one I will worship. He is cruel. By your fruits, ye shall know them. You said that The Church of Jesus Christ has an upstanding zeal for Christ, family values, and morality. Would Christ's church not do the same?

Interesting that you say Satan can deceive, you are right. You are serving him - very sad. BTW, we aren't Mormons, we don't belong to the Mormon Church. It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Oh, one more thing - you aren't a Bishop.

@lisabrinkerhoff4706

2 ай бұрын

He is only trying to help mormons see the Church's lies and false doctrines. He is teaching the truth of the LDS history. There is nothing wrong with exposing lies and false doctrines of demons.

@threegreendown414

2 ай бұрын

@@lisabrinkerhoff4706 - He is a liar and is not helping members. How do you know if what he is saying is true or not? Have you done research yourself or are you simply defending this garbage because you have a bias against the LDS Church? I have been a member my entire life, and I have seen and heard all of these twisted lies many times. It's sad but true, people like this leave the Church, but they can't leave the church alone. Who exactly are you calling demons? Lee Baker is the lying demon.

@MrNirom1

2 ай бұрын

@@lisabrinkerhoff4706 Except when his perception is NOT the truth.

@axoid

2 ай бұрын

The LDS church not only accepted but actively promoted the use of the word Mormon by spending millions on the Meet the Mormons and I'm a Mormon Ad campaign (which you can still find on the churches own KZread channel). That was just a few years ago. It's like if Coca-cola suddenly telling us that they aren't Coke. The only reason Mormons today claim they aren't Mormon is because they were told so by Mr. Nelson, who personally doesn't like the word. Isn't it interesting that the church changes on the whims of a single man. Doesn't seem like it's led by a consistent God that is supposedly "the same yesterday, and today, and forever."

@robertrlkatz6890

2 ай бұрын

@@MrNirom1 How is it perceptions when he is showing you the churches own documentation, why is it so hard to admit the truth when you can see for yourself in your own books. Could it be that you see that what you believe is so farfetched that you have a hard time to admit that what you believe is false? I am just asking!