uhhh... nah

the finals is a really good example where ray tracing actually helps because since the game has full real time dynamic destruction interiors would look floaty and detached since the buildings cant be rasterized with anything fancy other than shadows and since its fully destructible once the building is gone theres just a black area of where the building once laid one but with ray tracing it really fixes that mistake and also just allows the game to look even more dynamic as the game is based around a dynamic sandbox arena plus it doesnt actually butcher the performance too hard since the game is so well optimized

Ray tracing will not ruin games, nor did screen space techniques, nor did the introduction of global illumination, nor did programmable shaders etc. If 'GAMERS' are going to blame the ruinination of games on ray tracing. Where was the animosity against per-pixel-lighting in the 90's when dedicated graphics processing hardware allowed the ability to utilize a more advanced and 'accurate to life' lighting technique in real time than vertex lighting WHICH WAS A BIGGER JUMP than what were introduced most recently. Often Non-technical people like the average 'GAMER' complain about a singular very technical subject when there so much going on in the advancements made in a graphics pipeline which they ignore and fail to appreciate. Annoying, but it is what it is.

Before RestirGI was added in Cyberpunk (which you can actually just disable with a line in a .ini file if you want to) you could increase the amount of Rays and Bounces for Path Tracing. And it looked incredible and much better than the default, which was 2 Rays and 2 Bounces. Personally, I'm excited for the future of RT

My 4090 is literally cooking me alive

its so odd. weve gotten so good at faking realistic lighting in games but we still slap on rtx. ray tracing is awesome but right now its still only made for the most elite pc rigs. maybe in 20 years we will be closer to that

@CuttinInIdaho

2 күн бұрын

True, but I turned RT Ultra on my wife's 3060 PC in cyberpunk with Ray Reconstruction and DLSS balanced and it hits a steady 60fps and looks great. It isn't for only high end, 1080p is still the most used resolution lol.

Refreshing to see smart people making content. Loved your input on RT, definitely a hard choice for most.

Quantum Break Mirrors Edge Catalyst. Splinter Cell Conviction / BlackList FarCry3, 4, 5, 6 The last 3 tomb raiders. Uncharted InFamous A lot of games could benefit from Raytracing.

One dire disadvantage with ray tracing that's worth mentioning. Using DLSS along with ray tracing may also introduce "muddy" look of the rendered image because ray tracing inherently has noise from inaccurate path tracing in the process and denoisers must compensate it with low internal resolution. I usually don't mind it but for some people it can be really bothering except in Starfield. It's really ugly.

@artoflegends

4 күн бұрын

@nathanlamaire I agree. I just personally, similar to you, still rather ray tracing even with those drawbacks. The only thing is that Starfield doesn't even have ray tracing, so the muddy look is all thanks to DLSS, and possibly some other aspects of the game

@mehemynxm6974

3 күн бұрын

drives me insane and gives me a headache after a while. For slow moving, static scenery, it can be really nice though.

doesn't ray reconstruction fix the path tracing lagging behind in cyberpunk?

@artoflegends

4 күн бұрын

@DieAnotherDayTD sadly no. Ray reconstruction helps smooth out the raytracing and makes it more consistent, but it can't increase the speed of raytracing. The reason it lags in the instance I mentioned in the video is because the the ambient light needs to quickly change color, and the ray tracing pipeline can't do that instantaneously. Ray reconstruction is simply an AI that denoises ray tracing more efficiently and effectively than other denoisers, so it can't fundamentally change hard coded aspects of the ray tracing like the speed rays are produced. The reason ray reconstruction can sometimes look like it stops things from lagging behind is because it was the old denoiser that was lagging not the raytracing itself. For this example, it is the raytracing that is lagging not the denoiser.

Lumen is an "rasterization" alternative? But is also heavier... Just try the path Tracing shaders in minecraft.. Rasterization is always going to be part of the game. Without it, you couldn't see pixels on yours screen xd...

@GreenDave113

4 күн бұрын

Raytracing can fully replace rasterization, you don't need rasterization to render a scene. Offline renders like Blender's Cycles don't use rasterization at all.

@McLeonVP

4 күн бұрын

@@GreenDave113 no... Fake.. Without rasterization you can't see pixels on your screen. Every screen make rasterization... Polygons 3D to Pixels... I think people this days think rasterization is light without RT or PT. Like Dynamic or Static Light... That's a bad concept of raster I can agree that the light can be all RT.

@GreenDave113

4 күн бұрын

@@McLeonVP I am a university student studying computer graphics. I know what I'm talking about. You can look up "rasterization vs raytracing". Rasterization is a way to figure out what pixels a triangle covers. Raytracing is a way to figure out what triangle covers a specific pixel. They both fullfill the same role in that way.

@McLeonVP

4 күн бұрын

@@GreenDave113 I'm studying the same thing + system analysis xdd Even the calculator make rasterization.. Raytracing is not just a term for computer thing, is more an geometric and art concept.. RT is light with real physics the thing you call "raster" is a fake light. In all cases, you need raster to convert 3d information in 2d pixels.

@Platinum199

3 күн бұрын

@@GreenDave113 ​ @McLeonVP fight fight fight

It is the future of gaming...it is baked into UE5, and has been retroactively added to many AAA games. It will only get more prevalent...and only Intel and Nvidia seem to be able to use it. For immersion, it is incredible. Path tracing is incredible and worth it all IMO. Metro Exodus looks fantastic, Diablo is getting better, Chernobylite is great, Robocop is great too. I cant wait until they are all path traced.

the only thing i notice with ray tracing on is -40fps.

I'm willing to argue that still frames look better w/o RTX... As someone who's not a pro gamer and enjoys the scenery while distracted ACTUALLY playing the game when there's action.... w/o RTX works best for me.

i was able to run pathtracing in cp2077 before 2.0 update, now even with dlss i cant

Ray tracing isn't the problem rather how these triple A developers are implementing it. Minecraft is a good example where ray tracing is done creatively. Why does all ray tracing demo showcases and implementations in games go for a realistic look? Why not artistic?

the thing that ruins games is corporitization of art styles

Alan Wake 2 is a prime example of when a game focuses on ray-tracing their rasterized fallback looks worse, it's absolutely disgusting. The reason I dislike ray-tracing (not all of it, not in every game) is because I know its not going to be used right by the industry, its just a tool for them to speed up game development so they'll use it even if its not the best solution to a problem and raster will also look worse because their splitting up resources and dev time for two different rendering modes and it won't get a lot of attention and care since its looked at as a fallback for people with weak PCs. As for how ray-tracing looks bad its simply because its often fuzzy and muddled at times due to not running at full res and its not actually "real time" either since theirs delays which causes immersion breaking graphical phenomenons. Some implementations like Lumen even disappear and pop in as you turn because its based on where you're looking. Basically it can look pretty when holding still or slow pans but when moving around and seeing all these exaggerated issues occurring during gameplay it looks not so good, its just not great for gameplay a lot of the time but its great for marketing and screenshots. The next problem is upscaling. Needing aggressive upscaling looks ugly, very ugly and exacerbates existing issues. If you're on 4k its still ugly imo but its at least passable, the lower your resolution is like if you're a 1080p gamer even quality mode upscaling looks unusable its so blurry. Games built around RT tends to make games look blurry, fuzzy and have weird graphical artifacts. I'm a fan of RT when its used artistically and practically; like a game being built around raster and RT is added as an additional setting like some reflections.

@artoflegends

4 күн бұрын

@Hybred I see your point. The only problem I have with some games being built around raster and having RT added later, is that sometimes the raster lighting would take president over ray traced lighting even if that aspect of lighting is fully under the ray traced pipeline. Before Cyberpunk had the path tracing mode, light sometimes leaked in areas when ray tracing was on max settings. This is because ray tracing was used as a layer over rasterized lighting. This issue was only really solved when they added an option to replace all of the rasterized lighting with ray tracing. Both ray tracing and rasterization have benefits and drawback, but I personally rather the blurry but more accurate image of ray tracing than the less accurate but cleaner and clearer image of rasterization

@Hybred

3 күн бұрын

@@artoflegends yeah cleaner and clearer and free of artifacts is way more important to me. Ray-Tracing a lot of the time falls apart in motion, a game is suppose to actually be played so that's a deal breaker for me.

??? The rtx 2080super Actually can do Cyberpunk2077 with Raytracing and Ray Reconstruction... Try the fsr 3 frame gen mod + dlss

@artoflegends

4 күн бұрын

@McLeonVP I got an RTX 4070 before ray reconstruction was in Cyberpunk or FSR 3 was released, so that's why I said that in the video, but I could probably run it today if I still had an RTX 2080 Super. I still much rather the experience on my RTX 4070 though since I can run full path tracing with DLSS Balanced and DLSS Frame Generation, which I think is better than FSR 3 Frame Generation. Best case scenario, if I still had an RTX 2080 Super, I'd run path tracing on DLSS Performance or Ultra Performance with FSR 3 Frame gen with either variable framerates, horrible image quality, or both. When I did my first play through of the game on my RTX 2080 Super, I had a mix between high and medium raster setting with med. ray traced lighting plus rt shadows and reflections on DLSS Performance. Even then, I commonly had frame rate dips into the low 50s or even high 40s sometimes. In my opinion, even if you can run path tracing with DLSS Ultra Performance and FSR 3 Frame Generation, I'd recommend upgrading if you want a good experience. Even though I'd rather ray tracing with those compromises than no ray tracing at all, I still much rather more playable frame rates and image quality. That's the main reason I upgraded to an RTX 4070 in the first place.

@McLeonVP

4 күн бұрын

@@artoflegends maybe, but Ray Reconstruction + Path Tracing =Helps the dlss image..

Issue with ray tracing is culling. In bf5 the game lags much more with rtx because of that. Until big games like tarkov dont require culling, ray tracing will never fit in there.

I hate the delayed raytracing

No. Plannar reflection and screen space reflection in 2024 are ruining games. I can agree that Raytracing or path Tracing.. Is not that necessary for ambient occlusion or shadows, or light. but yes it is for Reflections...

@artoflegends

4 күн бұрын

@McLeonVP I see what you mean. When I play a game that only has SSR for reflections, I am commonly taken out of the experience when I look down or towards the reflection. Even though I much rather ray tracing in any game, even those without SSR, I do not see other reflection methods like cube maps or planar reflections to be as emersion breaking. Even though they have less detailed reflections than ray tracing which lowers continuity, I am more forgiving of those methods because at least they are more consistent and don't disappear when I look in the wrong direction

@McLeonVP

4 күн бұрын

@@artoflegends sometimes i disable the reflections because of that. Cube map isn't dynamic or detailed. Planar it is, but is not dynamic for objects Dead Rising was so good or the scope in cod4 Cube map was more used for weapons i think

Real time ray tracing is a gimmick. Caching it and calculating over multiple frames is good.

tl;dr, no

I tell people I play video games, not audio games...so visual fidelity is paramount imo.

This video is badly informed and fails to make any solid point, just fluff.