Unrelated to the other comment, the biggest mistake people make when playing Satellites is holding on to the card too long when their hand is full of space tags. They think, if I just delay this a gen or 2, I can make it worth a little bit more and by the time Satellites does come down they're getting +5 or more MC but that's typically a mistake, in my opinion. Satellites is a perfectly reasonable card to play Gen 1-2 if you have 2-3 existing Space tags and unless you're waiting until the end of the game that's when you should play it, especially if you have some incidental titanium. The problem is, however, that there are very few corps/preludes with space tags, so getting those space tags down can be quite difficult, and most of the cheap space tags are non-productive in nature. If you look at it through the lens of "this functionally adds 1 MC Prod to all those non-production space tag cards" that still doesn't suddenly make them proactively playable. You shouldn't be dropping a Trans-Neptune Probe or Lagrange Observatory just to chain into Satellites. It's a card that looks good on paper, but the numbers just do not work out in its favor.

@marsexpert4276

7 күн бұрын

Yeah, you're right. A lot of space tags aren't supposed to be played early on or are just to expensive to get down. But with just two of them, Satellites already yields the same development as Acquired Company which I placed in C tier. And in addition to that, it has the upside of being a Banker swing.

I recently played security fleet gen 1 in a 4p tournament match against a 450 elo as MG and had a close win. I think it’s very situational. I believe I played lava flows to get 1 titanium bonus placement and then played and activated it gen 1. Otherwise yeah it’s not a very dank card but better than nothing for sure.

@marsexpert4276

3 күн бұрын

@@NightmareKid_VR I would be very careful with the phrase "better than nothing". With Security Fleet you need to decide really early on whether you want to invest one titanium every gen into this card for the rest of the game. If you have no other titanium target on hand, this might seem like the right decision and if you never draw an alternative then yes, that is indeed the case. But if you play Security Fleet gen 1, then draw onto Deimos, Imported Hydrogen, Large Convoy and GIA, then the titanium you spent on it was just a bad investment. So yeah, sometimes it's really worse than nothing...

Satellite is more niche than good. More times it is correct to take it just to hatedraft it away from the oppo, however im usually happy playing it for +4mc, which still requires a bit more of a lean towards jovs. It does get significantly better with colonies though. Space discount cards as a whole have gone down the more i play the game. That is both space station and shuttles are super mid.

@marsexpert4276

7 күн бұрын

I think Satellites, Space Station and Shuttles all have their niche and it's kinda similar: Engine with science and Jovs. In that strategy all of these cards can be really good, but if you're rushing or doing anything else, they are as you said mid.

Security fleet is basically a 12 + 3MC card that also costs an extra titanium and "decreases" your titanium prod by 1. 28 MC worth of value for 1 point per turn. What a steal! S+ card!

@illumina91

9 күн бұрын

Security fleet is garbage , 12+3mc to draw it , 15 with no points , then +3 cause a titanium is 3 useally worth , so 18 for 1points , its terrible , 21 for 2points , 24 for 3points , and the badge isnt helping , its not a joviens or science tag . foor 3 points over 24mc , u could get 9mc form that titanium for way better use , this cripple you on productions purpose

@fortunastreet

9 күн бұрын

@@illumina91 I think your jokes detector is not working.

@marsexpert4276

7 күн бұрын

hahaha point well made...It's actually quite interesting to just add the price of the titanium prod to see what you're really paying. It's just shit, yeah :D

Here’s a fun question you: what’s the worst card in the entire game including Venus. Security Fleet has to be bottom 5 in my view but probably AAA. Tough to say what the best card in the game is.

@jeffreyculbert2093

9 күн бұрын

Hackers. Always bad. Never useful except for when you’re already dominating opponent(s) and want to rub it in that you’re willing to delay winning to make a meme play. At least almost every other bad card has niche use cases that are legitimately competitive, Hackers does not.

@dtmrea247

8 күн бұрын

​@@jeffreyculbert2093 In most situations (solo, 3-5 players, 2 player late game) you're right, but in the early generations of a 2 player game, hackers is very good. Consider the math: 1 energy production should cost you 11MC at most, and the card costs you 6MC at most, for a maximum of 17MC to give you 2MC per gen and take 2MC/gen from your opponent - a difference of 4MC/gen. If you did that in gen 2 of a game that's going to last 12 generations, that's a 40MC-17MC = 23MC difference over the course of the game. Now, would you pay 23MC for a single victory point? Considering at the end of the game you could easily be paying 23-25MC for 2 VP with standard project greeneries/cities (and should probably have much more cash-efficient ways to get VPs), you'd rather have the 23MC than 1VP, meaning a difference of at least 23MC over the course of the game is well worth losing the victory point to play hackers in a 2 player game.

@marsexpert4276

7 күн бұрын

I think it's Underground Detonations. If I had to nominate an expansion card it would probably be Venus Soils.

@iantaylor2331

30 минут бұрын

@@marsexpert4276 underground detonations is pretty bad I have to say. I don’t hate hackers in 2p; not great but not the worst. I think Venus soils is pretty bad but I think there’s a worse one…let me look at the list.

I had question about Security fleet. For example the game will take 10 turns, I play Security fleet at 5 turn, as a result I will get 6 points for 33MC. Is it comparable with Large Convoy? It will bring a little bit less VP, but much more flexible (If you don't have any animal card and no one can not kill your fighter). Is it a good ratio 5.5MC for 1 VP?

@davidkalichman

9 күн бұрын

As Mars Expert mentioned, the issue with Security Fleet is its "opportunity cost." Spending 18MC to basically do nothing really sets you back, especially in the early-to-mid game when you want to be building your economy and increasing your combo potential. In contrast, large convoy gives you all of its points at once. Plus it draws you two cards and gives you value from the ocean tile placement. Also, it's a space event with an Earth tag, so it has tons of possible discounts and synergies.

@marsexpert4276

7 күн бұрын

In that scenario you spend a lot of the cost much earlier than with Large Convoy, which usually gets played last gen. It also draws you 2 cards and the ocean can let you convert or pick up other bonuses. Security Fleet is a HUGE investment for "just" points. And a big part of it needs to be paid early on, where you could use that money and titanium to develop your engine.

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