DO NOT SKIP to the jump point. The SAS and SATA info he covers at the beginning is excellent and very informative.

The more videos you do on storage, the more I'm convinced you were secretly a Chia developer all this time and we've been bamboozled

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, I was actually introduced to Chia a couple months ago, but then as now I'm not supportive of it, and have never mined any. I had my concerns then, and it turns out I should've been _more_ concerned about the impact it's had on the hard drive market.

@egg5474

3 жыл бұрын

@Tano they recommend enterprise drives which last waaaaay longer (iirc circa 300k Tb?). I think the HDD market is going to get a lot worse once pools come online as most miners that are getting blocks rn have close to a petabyte each

@martinjanu9977

3 жыл бұрын

@@JeffGeerling Until cryptocurrencies start using proof of useful work (or time and space), I won't be a fan. I think the idea behind decentralized, cryptographically secure currency is important, but it's really gotten way out of scale of the original idea. I hope that some day we can reward useful mining, such as filecoin. But it too is still mostly garbage for now, but as more people use it for storage, it should become less wasteful

@keeperofthegood

3 жыл бұрын

@@JeffGeerling How can it possibly impact hard drives? The total represented storage of Chia is 1 to 2 exabytes. The global data center storage currently grows at 2.5 exabytes per day and is projected to push 500 exabytes per day by 2025. Amazon and Google and Facebook and The Citadel (etc) eat more hard drives in a day than all the chia farmers put together.

@xxcr4ckzzxx840

3 жыл бұрын

@@keeperofthegood What you probably forget is, that this is a few exabytes extra, that also need to be served, together with the 2,5 Exabyte per day for DCs. Chia also grew to 1-2 exabyte in around 20 Days or so, and thats just the Space thats already plotted. There is probably more to come and also SSDs get wrecked HARD, if you buy the wrong ones, which most ppl do. You write aprox. 1TB of Data, for a 102GB Plottfile. EDIT: Also we have a Chipshortage and HDDs/SSDs need Chips too. So yeah.. No wonder prices are higher. But i dont think that it will affect small drives up to 500GB too much (hopefully).

another thing for "why?", is that the raspberry pi might be the most readily available arm platform running "mostly standard" linux. Evaluating compatibility for this is pretty great. Just because you have theoretically compatible hardware/interconnect/whatever, like pcie, that does not mean things will just work (like you extensively demonstrated with gpus). If it "just works" on a raspberry pi with pretty much all the performance the pi can give and no major hiccups, that gives hope that all the technical groundwork is robust and you can use the product in the wildest of configurations, which is awesome. Also it makes great marketing to have your product be useful for a wide range of customers and use cases, even niche ones ;)

Now it all makes sense! Jeff needed Kioxia drives and Linus had them. This explains why RSJ has been watching LPL videos...

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

It all comes together...

Keep up the good work Jeff! The homelab crowd needs more of this type of content. Don't ask "why?" Ask "why the heck not?"

@edwardallenthree

3 жыл бұрын

I got a an answer for , "why?" If it can work in edge cases that require strict adherence to standards, this shows that they make a quality product. Sometimes a bottleneck can show you performance issues you may have missed on a faster system, as well.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

@@edwardallenthree To give real-world data to back that up, I discovered a bug in Drupal on a Pi cluster that was non-obvious when run with beefier hardware. The fix solved it on the Pi, and also fixed a weird clustering edge case that would only happen infrequently on cloud servers.

Seeing Linus here is Like a Marvel / DC crossover

@p-thor

3 жыл бұрын

@randomdoodification So he is Disney, AKA Marvel. It has been decided.

I already feel a little crazy for having a $99 SSD hanging off my Pi 4's USB port. Now I see this.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Qui-Gon Jinn: "There's always a bigger fish"

@denniswier

3 жыл бұрын

Well... We all started at that point sometime. I started with an tower pc as 'storage' Now I'm running an SR650 + D3284... So it can explode at some point 💪

Very interesting and I love the bloopers at the end. Thanks for the laughs!

I wish Elrond will see an actual production life soon. Ór an nice Casing for the Pi and Card to play together.

hey Jeff, I love your Pi videos, that's why I started to watch, but what takes the cake is your bloopers at the end, that's great, Keep up the amazing work.

Cool video! I love these ones on the CM4. and custom storage solutions. Making things that shouldn't work. Actually work!

I DEARLY LOVE YOUR BLOOPER CLIPS AT THE END OF EACH VIDEO…. WE ARE ALL HUMAN. BETTER HUMANS IF WE CAN LAUGH AT OURSELVES. You r awesome!

Awesome! Great job 👍🏻

Thanks, Jeff for another informative and post-blooper funny vid, Keep up the good work, push the envelope, and stretch the cost/byte ratio to the max.

Its like trolling the kioxia PR department on a whole new level

I always love your take on LTT!

We are all here to support and encourage you as you learn to read. It's a big step to admit that you need to improve in something, and we're proud of you for it. I believe you have the ability to bring your reading level up to even a college graduate level over the coming months.

Great vid as always, Jeff! Hey, is there a video that you have showing just how you benchmark drives? Like which commands and programs you use to accomplish this? Just curious. Thanks!

There's no kill like overkill.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

OVERKILL

Another enjoyable video, thank you.

Great video, thanks

Great man. Great job

I think this research is awesome especially for lightweight aerospace

Those cooling holes look like a parallel port

Elrond. That's what I am gonna name my child. Jokes

You are Simply Amazing! 👍👍👍👍👍! Was wondering about those Hot-pluggability Storage feature. Hmmm.... enterprise h/w for home-lab, IoT and Pi Projects, builders POCs...

"Who uses high end enterprise drives on a $35 SBC?"...Hold my beer👽👍

All these newfangled data transfer speeds remind me of the days when we spent the afternoon on our first IBM PC backing up our 5 megabyte hard drive to 360k floppies.

Holy smokes look at those damn caps!

@Jeff Geerling I did chuckle at the use of Linus's video on these Kioxia drives as the video thumbnail. I wonder if the KZread statistics show any effect from this? 😉

Glad to see that it's just as entertaining watching you struggle with Gibibytes as it was with Mibibytes :D

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Don't get me started on Pebibytes!

I am not an IT Guy but I love your video. I only have a NUC 11 with external 16 TB (4-4 TB) M.2 in an OWC express 4m2 enclosure (raid 0). I dream about having a small (Smallest) chassis with some NMve m.2 inside and also say 2 larger enterprize drives. I guess I need a bus adapter ..........well a MB that has a lane for the adapter first.....I think..... My problem is I dont know what MB or chassis can make it all come together. Again, good video.

Ooooh, fancy ! I like.

Im thinking about taking the logicboards out of my old smashed up smarthphones (all android) and speaking directly to the SoC on there via a Pi module. I have some questions, I hope you can answer them: A: How do I setup the connection? Is a usb-jtag interface a good way to go and if yes, how do i go about installing other ARM-compatible operating systems? Has someone aleady done sth like this? B: Do you think one might be able to setup a wireless cluster with these to run software on? looking forward to some help, as I really dont know too much about this

Nice, I wonder, is it just as fast as if you were using a board with a CPU instead of a SoC?

now the only thing left to do is make a board wit that connector/card build into it, that can be plugged into the back of the megaraid storage box. and is not much bigger than the back of the raid-box

(Both puzzled and shocked at 2'05) Whyyyy would anyone use electrolytic capacitors in storage devices?

@wiel-spin

3 жыл бұрын

For persisting data from cache (on drive) to flash when power is interrupted. Typically found on enterprise drives and sometimes on consumer drives.

@tanguero2k7

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, @@wiel-spin, I thought this would be an ideal use-case for the solid state kind but found the electrolytic type still pack more capacitance for the same size.

jeff do you know of a way to use the pi as a temp and moisture logger, i am currently getting a garage built and was thinking of moving my home server in to it, and want to know if it will get to hot in the summer months for the server

And I just got my hands on an external HDD enclosure from Icy Box, going to convert it to a media server with the help of a Pi4B.

If you can find a suitable adapter cable it would also be cool to test the kioxia PCIe drive connected directly to the Pi without the raid card in between.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Supposedly it could be possible... it is PCIe after all. I haven't found an adapter to go from PCI Express to U.3/SFF-TA-1001 though.

Yes thanks Kioxia for feeding our addiction for the next generation of retired enterprise grade equipment with anticipation and hope, even though it will be a few years before we'll see these appearing on the "red tag" pile. Thanks to Jeff to laying the ground work now.

Is this a coincidence? For me, the complete video preview (except for the thumbnail) consists of the Linus video part.

8:10 - I expect a video from you after a year saying “I was right!!” Just like LTT :)

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Ha!

funny how when i hover over the video in my feed only linus shows up

5:22 Is the path /nvme0n1/nvme0n1p2 a mistake? Wouldn’t the correct path be /dev/nvme0n1p2 ?

0:44 Ah it's that little KZread channel. Sorry Linus. All jokes. Please take more selfies with me. Lmao

Hey Jeff which model Megaraid card did you use for this configuration?

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

9460-16i (this one: pipci.jeffgeerling.com/cards_storage/broadcom-megaraid-9460-16i.html )

Do you know where it's possible to actually buy these drives? Ingram used to have them listed as special order, but since a couple of months ago they're no longer listed.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Besides vendors with which you might already have a relationship, right now the only reliable way is through the used market (eg eBay).

Next time I shuck an external hard drive, I'm hoping I find one of these.

SAS 24G has a bandwidth of 96GBits, not 24Gbits. (In 4-wide port mode)

If you just push in a PCIe card into normal PCIe slot it won't work, electrical considerations are to be made separately

Dit somebody made a design whoopsie @2:07. Jeez, why these THT caps.

@HennerZeller

3 жыл бұрын

They are raised, possibly for heat mitigation reasons. Surface mounted caps would quickly get to the temp of the PCB and dry out faster with all the power consumed and emitted as heat.

Sometimes I think Linus is your rival!

Gibabytes!

You can use plug thees into a raspberry pi tablet... record breaking mobile storage!!!

Rocky Linux t-shirt where from?

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Their site has a link to a merch shop. Some comfy shirts there!

@adrianteri

3 жыл бұрын

@@JeffGeerling Thanks!

In case anybody was curious as to how they might find such peripherals "within a *reasonable means- I have a tip...

wth are MIBABYTES and GIBABYTES?!?! are they real things, or did you just make them up? Cause they sound GREAT and I'm gonna start using them if they don't really mean anything lol :P [EDIT] WHAT?!?! IT IS A REAL WORD?!??! (only it's spelled 'mebibyte') I've been nerding since I was at least 9, I'm now 39, and I have NEVER HEARD THIS WORD IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!! I have A LOT to learn!!! [2nd-EDIT] Ok so a GIGAbyte is the round number ( 1,000,000,000 bytes ) but the GEBIbyte (also miswritten as GIBIbyte) is the actual full number ( 1,073,741,824 bytes ) so you might see "1TB (1024GiB)" which I never realized was actually two different measurements being used, I just assumed the advertising people printing the ads or price-tags you might see this on had no idea what they were talking about and they were just saying "1,000 GIGAbytes is actually 1,024 GIGAbytes but we just say 1,000 for advertising purposes" - BOY WAS I WRONG!!! LMAO - so in REALITY 1,000 GIGAbytes (GB) is the same as 1,024 GEBIbytes (GiB) - HA! You DO learn something new EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!! :D THANK YOU JEFF FOR THIS INTRODUCTION IN TO SELF REALIZATION TYHTA I DO NOT IN FACT KNOW EVERYTHING! :D I'm turning over a new leaf... YAY!!!!

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

I imagine someone had a bit of congestion one day, and tried saying Megabyte... and it came out Mebibyte.

@squelchstuff

3 жыл бұрын

@@JeffGeerling Would that be single lane, gen 2 congestion? I get that a lot. It's nice to put a name to an ailment :D

Who is that Linus guy anyways?

Maybe you need to collab with wendell from level1techs

6.9 Gigabytes per second, noice

Industry Wide Enterprise strategy: We need standards to maintain compatibility without driving up expense! Apple strategy: We need to change everything with each new generation so that consumers will have to buy our stuff every year. They may grumble and gripe each year, but hey, they're still buying our BS.

Remember children. Nothing exceeds like excess.

Hello Jeff Geerling, I sent you an email like you wanted some time ago over a backplane. I want to make sure that you received the email and that it didn't end up in the spam folder or was overlooked.

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry, lately I've been quite swamped in terms of email. I'm slowly but surely catching up on it...

@mysteryguy7716

3 жыл бұрын

@@JeffGeerling Ok thanks for the answer

People were definitely paying that much money for these drives indeed because of CHIA mining lol

mebabytes? 6:35

:)) ..... make more vids .... we need more blooper reals ... :)) JK ... good stuff man. but seriously more bloopers ... just sayin

"Overkill is my favourite type of kill" Unicorn points to whoever knows the KZread channel I stole this from...

1000$ for 7.68Tb of HighSpeed SSD storage isnt even that bad

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

Not too bad, sure. But about 20% higher than an equivalent-size _brand-new_ SATA drive. But true, these drives are waaaay faster.

@edwardallenthree

3 жыл бұрын

I could not find a new price for these, as they are in high demand, but the 7.68 TB nvme drive HPE sells retails for around $9,500 each.

Hey Jeff, I would love to send you more Serial Cables adapters and cables. Send me a message.

4x faster, nope, 3x times, 24 6

1600$ mega raid ? 1000$ ssd. ??? raspberry pi from 35$. What ??))))

Not sure about the hair

1 Gibliblablabbubytes/s

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

I will never be able to say Gibibyte or Mebibyte without slightly giggling inside.

ZFS or your data isn’t safe

I vote for "gigs" and "megs". Don't flaunder around with gibibytes and gigabytes and jiggawats and maybebytes...

First...finally

@MarcoGPUtuber

3 жыл бұрын

Nice!

Damn, 4th comment

nobody cares about heat & cooling , but why ?

Compared to chia, I'd more prefer running a IPFS (*not the file coin*) node.

Hey Jeff I know you like your pi's but what about checking out some other more powerful sbc's?

@JeffGeerling

3 жыл бұрын

I'm still trying to acquire a couple that interest me... but most of the other ones on the market have the same limitations as the Pi, or they're X86 and that doesn't really interest me much (plus, there are tons of other people on KZread who cover them in much more depth).

Second