I think with all this looking around trying to find what is optimal people forgot to actually go into the gym and train hard. A lot of people seem to want to know the outcome before they even try but that's just not possible no matter how many studies you read.

@Fazlifts

29 күн бұрын

Yep, I don't even really think some of these guys are here for gains. I'm sure you know how it goes from interacting with people online. There are a small (but outspoken) group of people within the bodybuilding community that are more interested in talking/arguing than in making gains. It's always been that way. Only thing we can do is identify them early and avoid!

@Tommygreenranger

27 күн бұрын

paralysis by analysis

Here's the science: Make tiny weekly gains through hard work good food and sleep consistently for years.

Milo Wolf's biggest mistake was choosing the wrong parents. If he had been born 5 years earlier he could have capitalised off of the science based trend, but now everyone is turning against it. I prefer his partner, Dr Pak, who's attitude could be summed up with "here's what the science shows, but the hell with that, do what you like, get jacked and DOMINATE your physique".

@slee2695

29 күн бұрын

I dont listen to roiders like Eric or Mike Faz, GVS, Milo, Jeff, Alex, etc...as long as they're natty I'll give them a listen

@slee2695

28 күн бұрын

@@msbegaofnwha we debunked powerbuilding already

@slee2695

28 күн бұрын

@@msbegaofnwha are you looking for a date or something?

@shades4313

27 күн бұрын

@@slee2695there are some enhanced people who have e very good advice. Listen to what people are saying, not if they close to roid or not. Ive heard natties with terrible advice and vice versa

@Fazlifts

26 күн бұрын

@msbegaofnwha You're blocked. No-one will see any further comments you make here. If you want to discuss this, then email me via my website.

Quoting the great Dan John. "The sum of muscle building science is lift weight and eat protein. The currently available science of why and how is just educated guesswork and might change years from now. When doubt in the weight room, I trust experience."

@BuJammy

Ай бұрын

My favourite quite from him is "More medals have been won by punch the clock workouts, than by any extraordinary efforts".

I'm a teacher and I totally get you. They want to push everyone to implement something new that gives a 5% increase, forgetting that that new initiative takes 20% more work, that causes you to neglect other more important areas. You have to look not just at what makes improvement as there are thousands of minor things, but what makes the most improvement with the least negative consequences. Progressive overload is a far more important factor than all these other tiny things people focus on.

@WickedRibbon

Ай бұрын

This is a problem in the corporate world too - a focus on picking up small pebbles rather than moving big rocks.

@Fazlifts

24 күн бұрын

Sadly Joe Public will blame the actual teacher in the classroom for these initiatives, not knowing it's management and government who insist on them.

Have seen the same even within the powerlifting bubble. Someone will start using a typical western linear scheme. Build a base, level off at some point, then switch to a more conjugate style. All of the sudden, linear sucks and conjugate is king because it's a new novel stimulus and the gains have started again. And vice versa, especially years ago lifters would start off conjugate and build their base as such. Level off, then switch to a more linear scheme, and fill in the gaps they missed, see gains again, and to them linear is king and conjugate sucks. 10:31 I benched 300lbs the first time, and immediately set a goal to bench 600 (because I saw a video of Tank Abbott doing a terrible 600lbs bounce press, which was how I also benched at the time lol). I didn't know shit about steroids, etc. I saw big, strong, jacked dudes in sport and in magazines, and just tried to become that with a blissful ignorance. I know now of course, but I still advise people to genuinely err on the side of delusion with their goals, because almost everyone who has hit delusional numbers or built these delusional physiques, didn't think they were delusional.

@Fazlifts

Ай бұрын

Always loved the fact you promote high standards 👊🍻

It's interesting what you said about beliefs because it matches my childhood perfectly. My dad and uncles used to bench whenever they felt like it in my garden, only during the warm months in England, at most 6 months per year, I would guess they did probably less than 50 sessions a year. They got up to benching 150kg 1rm without ever reading a single book, article, magazine, watching videos etc. Just spamming AMRAPs on bench pyramidding up until they could only get 1 rep which a lot of the time was a half rep with like 130-150kg. Then they would pyramid back down, rest time was just waiting for the other guy(s) to do their sets then going again, every set was to failure grinding hard as fuck with bright red faces and spitting everywhere while the spotter gives the tiniest bit of help ever while screaming at you to GET ANGRY AND PUSH and all this shit lmao. Every session looked like this: 50 > 70 > 90 > 110 > 120 > 130 > 140 > 150 > 140 > 130 > 120 > 110 > 90 > 70 > 50 all amraps trying to compete with each other. Through training cluelessly, with zero information about programming, diet and anything else my dad and uncles got stronger than most people while barely training. I watched them bench 150kg, I watched them hold higher weights and do half reps to 'condition themselves to being able to hold the heavier weight' and shit like this when I was a kid. They talked about how they saw people benching 300kg in gyms (lol?) so neither them nor me as a kid had any limiting beliefs whatsoever. They thought they could just continue going up infinitely, and it more or less worked.

@shades4313

27 күн бұрын

It’s interesting, I’ve heard lots of old timers who did basically this exact same thing on bench to get strong at it. Pyramiding up. Nowadays people think that’s a terrible training method, but it has a great track record

I used to think I wasn’t going to be good at bench press and was happy when I hit 225 for a single or a struggle double. Hit 225 for 3x5 yesterday, sat up immediately and thought “I can get to 315 with this.” It is indeed a mindset tekneek cyborgs are glitchin

@Fazlifts

Ай бұрын

That's not far off at all! 🫡

Add weight, with general good form, in moderate to high rep ranges and adjust volume according to what works for you. Seems too simple: Why we make it so complicated is beyond me.

I agree 100%. I came up lifting in the 90s as well. The idea never crossed my mind that I could get bigger without getting stronger. And I, too, was taught the goals of hitting 500lbs on deadlift, 405lb, on squats, and 315lbs on bench. "Eat big to get big."I trainied like Dorian all through the 90s. Then Dog crap training was all the rage and I got great results from it. Strong as an Oz. But strength was built into everything we did back then. Awesome video, always right on point.

100% agree about bulking amnesia. It's insanely common among the most popular influencers. I'd guess 3/4 of them.

The logical thinking of this video is more scientific than a lot of scientific content on KZread.

Couldn’t agree more Faz. The nature of the fitness industry with money and content creation means we will be inundated with information from bad faith actors looking to capitalise on vulnerable beginners to make a quick buck. Additionally it also blows my mind how bodybuilding history is disregarded so flagrantly. I watch some channels which go over golden, silver and bronze era training content and you see fads that are being cycled through now being things these guys documented all that time ago. The sad truth is unless you have gone to college and have an idea how to research and read critically it is very easy to fall into trends created by the big influencers. Also seeing as a big demographic who consume fitness content are teens or young men they’ll be impacted the most.

I relate a lot with this message. People jump so fast on the latest trend & forget that it’s just that, a trend. Not something that’s time tested across decades. Science is just a tool, not something that is the end all be all. Also agree with the SBD numbers you mentioned. In 8 years of lifting my progress has slowed down but never stopped. I’m excited to hit those strength goals myself!

This is exactly why I like your hlm program - reasonable volume with high effort. It's the way I like to train and it helps me push my self further every single time.

Not too long ago there was coach/influencer (I can't remember his name) but he told people to stop doing barbell rows because some new cable technique was found to be "optimal." He did not build his physique by being "optimal" he built it with hard ass work. It is disingenuous to let people think that the new "optimal" approach is how it is done when you yourself used bb rows in the first place. The basics will always work, unless they are lengthened basics (LOL).

Your point on influencers promoting what they are doing NOW is money! Too many newer lifters are training the way that 10+ year veterans are training now when it's nowhere near what helped them build 95% of their current physique.

to me it feels like a communication issue. high rep high volume hypertrophy work is still implied to exist within the framework of progressive overload. “they built the base first” seems to abstractify hypertrophy work as distinct from that and i would probably guess that a shift in training styles is largely due to being more beat up. whether a strength cycle for pure hypertrophy training is disproportionately useful (i watched lyle’s video and it makes sense) seems like a separate argument. influencers take it for granted that hypertrophy implies making whatever you’re doing harder over time,and novices miss that part entirely. to steelman the science id probably go back to the chicken and egg analogy of progressive overload. is starting strength 5x5 the most ideal stimulus for a novice? maybe yes or no. is it simple, communicable and close enough that id be happy to send them on their way and focus on adding weight. if you are advanced and expecting to take a couple months to make your leg press 7rm into an 8rm you’re just hammering away on the stimulus until the progressive overload comes to you (unless you are micro loading) where yeah it makes a lot more sense to fine tune volume and range of motion.

As a data scientist who lifts I think you hit the nail on the head with the computer science analogy, but I also they're hitting a similar issue as the lifters. These big tech companies have convinced all these developers they need certifications and cloud tools in order to scale applications, when 99% of applications could run with self hosting and tried and true open source programming languages. These tech giants have done the same thing to young developers that the fitness salesman are doing to you lifters. People forget the progress made in computer science is largely contributed to the open source movement; basically it was their community that pushed it forward, not private companies. It seems no industry is truly immune to salesman coming in and ruining the culture. The lifters should realize that if a person's main motivation is selling stuff, they're probably not actually there to help you. I started geeking out when you said you used to code, you're truly a renaissance man.

@bermysanders9278

28 күн бұрын

some of the best devs i have worked with are self-taught

I bought the cybernetics back in the 80's. Very expensive back then.

i trained for a long while just trying to gain "size", and as such, gradually i came to hear the same things such as getting stronger might not me as important, rotate exercises when they don't progress, etc (all of which might be great advice however almost definitely wasn't the right advice for me at the time) fast forward to 2 months ago i got injured, stuck at home with unable to train lower body due to the injury, luckily i had a bench and some weights i came across your 20lbs of muscle series (again) and finally decided to actually just do that plan (the upper body part) and just do it amd voila finally my arms got to 16 inches, lifts progressed, everything goes well moral: don't fall for fads, you'll keep spinning your wheels and waste the most important resource of all: time Thank you for all the content you make Faz, higely appreciated

In my 20s and you sir are wise af, I am so glad I stumbled upon this video. I started by following the whole "perfect form" etc garbage and while it was good to get the form down to prevent injuries, something about just pushing yourself and lifting heavy af weight not only grows you faster, I swear it toughens you up... gives you more grit which snowballs into being able to keep pushing into heavier weights. Meanwhile I see some dudes still lifting the same weight week after week and yeah their form is great and they do indeed get muscles but they are not getting big and strong.

The bit about taking both strength and size into consideration reminds me of a few things - 1) Alex Bromley's breakdown of how strongmen get their "gargantuan physiques" 2) Lyle MacDonald's point about how powerlifters can grow better than bodybuilders (because progression etc.) 3) JP's progressive overload training 4) Bald OmniMan's performance based bodybuilding 5) Doggcrapp the reason I list all these is because it very much seems like all roads lead to the same place eventually. With regard to Amnesia, one fun thing is going to an old Jeff Nippard video and looking at his technique, for instance his video on optimum pulldown grip. I do have a minor point of contention on the volume issue. If you take into account Soviet Olympic weightlifting and its derivatives (Chinese, Sheiko), they seem (?) to suggest that a lot of submaximal volume (sometimes in sets across) is the proper approach to take towards strength. Indeed, the greatest weightlifter ever by Sinclair, Naim Süleymanoğlu, trained with an absurd amount of volume, in a program that is fairly easy to find on the ninternet. Granted he was on more PEDs than the average Bulgarian lifter, and for a large proportion of weightlifters, growing more muscular is not necessarily desirable if they want to maintain their weightclass.

@Fazlifts

26 күн бұрын

"I do have a minor point of contention on the volume issue. If you take into account Soviet Olympic weightlifting and its derivatives (Chinese, Sheiko), they seem (?) to suggest that a lot of submaximal volume (sometimes in sets across) is the proper approach to take towards strength" They are correct, and so am I. We are saying and doing the same thing. They alternate periods of accumulation (more volume, lower intensity) with periods of intensification (less volume, more intensity) over the course of the year. This is exactly what I'm arguing for in my video. The sport is different, and the desired outcome (strength vs size) is different but the over arching method is the same. Strength is not built with low volume work at the top end of sport, it is built with higher volumes and it is demonstrated/peaked with lower volumes. I am saying that in the advanced echelons of bodybuilding, you need both.

@Rorschachs_Blot

26 күн бұрын

@@Fazlifts Fair enough, I think I might have misunderstood/misinterpreted what you were trying to convey. Maybe I am too used to "heavy" in a bodybuilding context being synonymous with "too failure"/intensity.

I stepped away from heavy lifting because of injuries but my base was always heavy compounds. And when I say heavy lifting I mean sub 5 reps. I still train to failure but with higher reps (10+)

On the first point, I agree. But, I think it also works for people returning after time off and people recovering from a crazy cutting cycle. You gotta get those base numbers back to par (or close) and then worry about hypertrophy and specialization type training, imo On the 3rd point, yes, I do remember even only 10 years ago when people stopped doing the top 1/3 of movements. It's nothing new. It's like styles...people have mullets again...omg 😅

Lifting amnesia can be tough to keep in mind at times. I know what *currently* works for me. Just a little while back, I was helping a friend with their very first gym session ever. It blew my mind how they couldn't do more than a sit-up or two. There's just cues that I don't really think of anymore.

GVS said it well, the technique obsession is just another form of ego lifting. Instead of maximizing the load you're maximizing the 'control'. Besides that I think it robs people of the most powerful psychological benefit/life lesson lifting has to offer- the realization that you can push yourself beyond what you previously thought was impossible. Maybe the 'control' obsession will fill this role for some people, but my sense of it is that it will tend to trap people into lower weights that they know they can handle. Every man should experience the WAR mindset that heavy singles demand.

You're not that much older than Eric, only 6 years or so

Well said Faz. My wife is getting out of mainstream teaching after almost 20 years this issue amongst others being one of the main driving factors, rather than building on and improving the system new programs with fancy names are implemented ( that for the majority are useless and only serve to create more work) to justify someones position and pay check, the Kids are unfortunately the ones who ultimately suffer, in this case its the new lifters coming in to this overload of information. Benny Hill music during the strong man :) LOL

Thank you,I’m getting tired of seeing these incredibly low standards being pushed to make each other feel better. Stop comparing your strength to the average person,the average person is weak. Like a 2 plate is a nice milestone,but it’s far from the destination and you almost certainly will not get jacked only benching 2 plates.

Great video Faz! I've seen your comment under Sticky Ricky's video and knew this was coming 😁😁

No idea why people fall for the same fads, but, when I read "SCIENCE-BASED workout/exercises" title (especially using caps), I try to stay away.

That car-lifting footage is gold.

Damn... Those are all profound and thought provoking points, boss. Yes indeed, the Fitness industry unlike other industries has a weird cycle of rejecting knowledge and reinventing the wheel every odd number of years. I've been working out on and off since 2003 and I've seen some of these cycles happen. Yep, an angle opens and people seeking answers get fed with all sorts of BS by figures who wanna make a buck off of them.

Listened to Erics video yesterday and immediately remembered you saying basically the exact same things- great minds haha

I always did heavy bulks with great success. but I’m at the point where I need to do the slow maintenance bulks where I only gain about 10lbs instead of 40lbs.

It’s a mindset! Expect to grow and you will.

Science is a useful tool, however the 'scientist within bodybuilding sport' don't use the tool properly. All I see constantly are metastudies after metastudies baes on limited and flawed studies. It's wack!

Allot of wisdom in the video , and I find it funny that some years ago basically powerlifting was in the place where science based lifting is today with its popularity in the main stream ( still remembered getting mark ripatoe recommendations where he told me I was only supposed to squat ,dead lift and bench ...) And that caused just has much damage in general has science based lifting is doing today

I just don’t understand one thing. If science has made so many ‘advancement’, why don’t lifters grow bigger and stronger quicker than ever before? You have new exercises that target muscles more ‘effectively’, volume grows muscle more, yet these things haven’t been proven.. I only listen to people who’ve been in the trenches and know what works and what doesn’t. Anecdotal evidence is better than scientific evidence, that’s for damn sure!

@jakemaxwell2800

Ай бұрын

Because genetics determine how much your muscles grow, not training protocols

@AMan-vs4vs

Ай бұрын

The only thing that changes are the pharmaceuticals. Gear > proper training > genetics

Another great video Faz, agree with what you and Eric say. Love the classic footage including Benny Hill music!

You know the funny thing about the big influencers and bodybuilders who talk about “the weight doesn’t matter” and focus on high volume/lengthened position and all that, are still lifting heavy ass weights 😂 or they lifted heavy in the past and built a big strength foundation

@Fazlifts

27 күн бұрын

Yep, it's that lifting amnesia!

Would you recommend a long bulk for a 40 year old who was an intermediate? Assuming they were lean already. Seems ok to me, but people out there seem to think it’s too late for that approach. Thoughts anyone?

@Fazlifts

23 күн бұрын

Assuming you're lean, healthy, can commit to doing it correctly and have room to grow sure. I don't watch many other people's content, what are their reasons for saying it's too late? Not calling anyone out but I think some coaches are just shit and can't do much unless they're working with the perfect young, driven and gifted clients. Just what I see.

Thumbnail may seem to serious don’t you think?🤣

This is an awesome video, and as a person who has done a bazillion sets and hard ass sets, the thing that works the best? Bulking. Doesn't matter what work you put in if you don't eat enough food 😂. But in all seriousness my best size gains have all been training to failure regardless of how many sets. But it does for me at lleast have to be 65 to 70 or higher percent of my 1rm to be effective. This is my own experience and its been a journey I did myself to learn and am happy to have done it.

@Fazlifts

15 күн бұрын

Oh absolutely, gotta bulk!

After entertaining optimalists for the sake of experimentation over the last year or two, I’m permanently returning to tried and true lifts like the flat barbell bench, barbell back squat, barbell row, and conventional deadlift. Despite making some gains in muscle and mobility with dialed back volume and self limiting variations, I think my physical capacity is lower than what it was I was more aggressive in the gym and more beat up physically. Nothing beats doing basic hard shit, with appropriately dosed magnitudes of volume/intensity/frequency. I’m looking forward to being more and robust and resilient getting back to the basics.

The new standards for lifting have gone down so much yet so high at the same time, there's one group saying a 180kg bench is the standard for strong, then another, that 100kg is very impressive. It's a huge divide and the sensible middle ground is so rare. Watching your video on this is incredibly refreshing.

@KurokamiNajimi

Ай бұрын

The 180 kg one is correct just takes a long time and assumes you’re following niche advice

@alternatedemon6060

29 күн бұрын

@@KurokamiNajimi oh i fully agree with you, just saying some people hit 100kg and think anyone stronger than them is on roids or just has good genetics. The niche advice is so true tho :DDD that's how I burst through platoes usually

This message somehow felt extremely personal and motivational

That introduction ought to be in every future video.

The more I learned about data in school, the more I learned how completely unreliable and manipulatable it is for soft sciences. Im glad my professors shined the light on the absolute shit show that is published research. Il a teacher and EVER trainer backs their program with the same studies from 10-30 years ago. A recent one referenced a study showing his behavior program works. The study itself was interviewing a handful of kids and asking them what they felt the school needed to make them behave better. My first thought, “so we’re asking the kids…and not the professional teachers with decades of experience? Okay.” What you said about bulking is spot on. I generally bulk to 20-25% bodyfat every 12-16 months, but I always end up looking better even while being fatter because of the muscle I put on.

Really glad I watched this

The sad thing is watching so many young people following these influencers and getting nowhere. So much online fluff to sort through it must be hugely confusing!

I think I swung too far towards the feel it and form perfection side and I’m gonna start trying to lift heavy as I can with good enough form

@Fazlifts

26 күн бұрын

Yeah it's all swings and roundabouts, happens to everyone at some point.

Jonathan Warren did an eye opening critique of Mike Israetel, some 3 months ago, very eye opening. KZread him.

@Rorschachs_Blot

Ай бұрын

Solomon Nelson also has some interesting stuff.

@KenanTurkiye

Ай бұрын

@@Rorschachs_Blot Will have a look.

A huge part of this problem is that every question and answer problem in fitness gives partial credit. For example, you get diet kinda right, training kinda right, and recovery mostly wrong, and you end up with C- results after 6 months of training. You think “I made progress. I now have proof this style of training works.” And since it’s known fitness isn’t an overnight thing, 6 months into implementing a C- plan you end up not realizing how big a difference even B- results could have made.

@Fazlifts

26 күн бұрын

Real

I'm ashamed to say that I spent several years spinning my wheels trying to follow a science based approach to lifting. I even followed Athlean-X for a while 😅

Great to see some certified horsecocking throwbacks

Damn you competed in strongman? Must have been an interesting experience lol

@Fazlifts

Ай бұрын

It's a tough sport!

@beburs

29 күн бұрын

@@Fazlifts yeah i bet man, tho to be fair strongman is the most chad sport in my opinion lol, the upperback strength those guys have is insane

It's just professional influencers milking the 'science-based' stuff. None of those studies have revealed paradigm shifting stuff. Those little nuances in exercise selection and execution are marginal gains at best. Everything still revolves around getting stronger over time by ways of progressive overload. In regards to dr. Mike i still think he provides solid advice and principles, with a strong focus on pure hypertrophy training.

Just saying - there are lots of people that are big and strong in hole-in-the-wall gyms that never watch youtube fitness nor have they heard about "science based" stuff

@Fazlifts

11 күн бұрын

Definitely. I do try to teach some of what I've been taught over the years in gyms by people who know, not by those who read so it's not forgotten.

RESPECT

I love BB but i think he is a perfect example of lifting amnesia

If I dont get strong as shit, then who is gonna fight the dragons?

@lorenzoespetxe6481

17 сағат бұрын

Dragons don't exist but i dont give a fuck

@Fazlifts

12 сағат бұрын

They don't exist? 😢

O the 90’s. I remember cybergenics and trying it 😅

If i lived in the uk i would love to train strongman with you.

@Fazlifts

11 күн бұрын

Those days are long gone my friend

@user-dw7fb6eb2u

10 күн бұрын

@@Fazlifts pity, you should make a tutorial on "horsing big weights" Imo one of the biggest issues that lifters should talk about is how to manage fatigue after hard sessions so that progress can continue as long as possible before switching to different strategies

Lord Yapper. lol jk bro always good hearing your thoughts man.

Good Ole Rick the Stick

Johnny Pencilneck!!

Out of tb all the science guys I like Dr. Pak the best because he tells you the science but is basically just like this is what the data says but it doesn’t matter just lift lol

@Fazlifts

26 күн бұрын

Yeah I personally quite like Pak. Just curious on that, if all he says is 'just go lift and the science doesn't matter' - what do you follow him for? Just entertainment? No hate, I'm genuinely curious, what value does he bring to you?

Subbed

@Fazlifts

19 күн бұрын

🤝🍻

Don't know why you're calling me Eric (My name is Jeremy), but I appreciate that you made an entire video just for me! Thanks pal.

Dr Mike is, ironically, completely wrong about slower lifting being any more effective for hypertrophy than faster reps Since both methods work exactly the same, if ones goal is just bigger muscles then the smart choice is going to be the safest option "Horsecocking" weights around with bad form is going to have most people quitting lifting before their 40s from an accumulation of chronic joint damage. I wish I'd never chased 1rms as my focus was always hypertrophy, but I didnt understand that the safest path is the best until I hit my mid 40s

First 😋

second 🫡