Maegor was indeed the worst man, but not the worst King. Respect for not just throwing him to D like others do

@whatisreddin7367

Жыл бұрын

saved the dynasty from an early demise IMO

@MyUserTubeAccount

Жыл бұрын

yea, I'm going to disagree here. Maegor actually held the Targaryen Dynasty TOGETHER! had he never been involved, the Faith would have unraveled that family with the quickness. was he cruel? you try dealing with rebellion as a new family who took over 6 quarrelsome regions, while trying to keep it together when an organization that has sway with 5 of those regions is poisoning your reign. the fact he couldn't get an heir was another problem for him, and he began to get desperate. one thing we KNOW, is Maegor was Aegons son, the same could not be said positively for Aenys. i think he is in at least the B tier.

@Oppawesome88

Жыл бұрын

@Valters Plūme With stuff that Euron's done so far? Maybe. But if you've read the Foresaken preview chapter I think by the end of the story, it'll be pretty clear that Euron is on a whole other level of evolution, leaps and bounds above anybody else.

@alicedeligny9240

Жыл бұрын

@@MyUserTubeAccount I think Maegor might have just destroyed his family had he not been stopped (or killed himself). He was murdering, torturing, or hunting down all of his family members, and he would have been just as efficient had he protected and helped Aegon rule and rather than usurping and outright going to war with his nephews. Maegor was a menace for his own family, his usurping meant he'd have to wipe out his brother's line and he himself could not have children (+his paranoia got worse with time because of a situation he put himself in).

@MyUserTubeAccount

Жыл бұрын

@@alicedeligny9240 do you imagine had he started spitting out children, he would still have behaved the way he did as far as other Targaryens? Visenya was his mother, we don't know what she told him, or what Maegor knew. maybe Aenys wasn't Aegons real heir? maybe Visenya felt SHE was also one of the conquerers, which she was, and her line deserved a chance?

Aegon III is probably my favorite Targaryen king just as like a character. This boy who lost everything when he was so young and was just unable to function as a normal human being for the rest of his life. He’s basically the physical form of the awful affects of the Dance. And the fact that despite not taking care of himself, he cares about the Kingdom and the small folk. He didn’t have that much charisma, so he’s not well remembered, but he was still the one who cancelled his progression and instead of taking the money and food for himself, he gave it away. He hated touch but still managed to have 5 kids to strengthen the throne. He was terrified of dragons yet tried to revive them for his family.

@patbacktheleprechaun

9 ай бұрын

taste

@LordBloodraven

5 ай бұрын

Aegon III suffered from a depression/apathy that made him unbothered by visiting commonfolk suffering from a pandemic in King's Landing. He did more to repair the reputation of House Targaryen in King's Landing by sitting by the bedside of the sick and dying, leading many to attribute their recovery to the "King's healing hands."

@nicksmithnutmilk

3 ай бұрын

He had a banging hot wife 😂😂 of course he managed to have kids

@nont18411

24 күн бұрын

So much “I don’t wannit. I never av.” energy

@juangabrielcabana8270

20 күн бұрын

he wanted a 6 year old as a wife......

Maekar was such a badass that the Blackfyres stayed away from Westeros during his entire reign.

@aegonii8471

Жыл бұрын

They stayed away because they just lost a devastating war in the 3rd Blackfyre rebellion. They can’t just respawn armies they gotta recuperate.

@raymond-reviews

Жыл бұрын

@@aegonii8471 and they knew that the realm would only be more unified behind King Maekar instead of another Blackfyre Pretender. Maekar played a decisive role in the 1st Blackfyre Rebellion & led the realm into victory in the 3rd. Most people would rally behind Maekar more than ever if there was a 4th Blackfyre rebellion during his reign. It only was in the reign of his son Aegon V, who was chosen by a great council instead of being proclaimed heir, that they decided to attack.

@bierwolf8360

Жыл бұрын

@@raymond-reviews ew, Falseborn fans.

@nate742

Жыл бұрын

He's basically what Maegor could've been if Maegor wasn't insecure about his erectile dysfunction.

@LordBloodraven

Жыл бұрын

@@raymond-reviews Following a weakling like Aerys I and keeping Brynden Rivers as Hand, were enough to let the Blackfyres know Maekar I wasn't going to be a pushover.

I think you short change Jaehaerys II, he has one really strong thing going for him and that is crushing the Nine-Penny Kings before they became a serious threat, which effectively ended the Blackfyre Rebellions or at least preventing any rival claimants to the throne for at least a generation. All Aerys II had to do was coast by on the peace that had been bought, let his best friend and most efficient politician since Viserys II handle the day to day affairs, and not go Aerion Brightflame level crazy.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

That’s a great argument! You’ve convinced me.

@brentwyrick3300

Жыл бұрын

He also had Barristan's respect. Jaehaerys II was easily a decent person perhaps not the best King but he certainly was a qualified ruler that had he lives just a decade longer there is almost no way that Aerys II would have destroyed the dynasty...In my opinion.

@adib3011

Жыл бұрын

Since Bloodraven*

@ccorvid

8 ай бұрын

the only negative thing I have to say about Jae II, which wasnt touched on in the vid, is that he Forced his children to marry one another, despite them hating each other. whether or not he did that purely for the sake of prophecy? we'll maybe see in F&B2, but even if that's the case... yeesh.

@jmeds94

6 ай бұрын

@@ccorvid That could have been the best thing he did as king if it led to the births of Rhaegar and Jon, bringing the Prince Who was Promised into the world. Jaeherys and his love for incest defeated the Others and saved the realm, change my mind.

Aegon III is S tier imo. He prioritised the smallfolk, worked closely with Viserys II and very importantly he was described as making active attempts to revive the dragons. It shows that he is willing to act against his own feelings if there is a good reason. He inherited the kingdom in one of it's worst phases and built it back up, in spite of his depression.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

There’s a solid case to be made for this!

@bennilol2034

3 ай бұрын

I never understood why his reign is often described rather negatively, at worst you could say that he was a mediocre king that left most of the ruling to his (insanely competent) hand viserys ||. Imo hes the most underrated king and a really tragic character

@Chadius_Thundercock

3 ай бұрын

He didn’t build it back up, his brother did, that’s why he’s a terrible king. He couldn’t rule without his brother because he’d be too depressed, that much dependence on someone is a terrible trait.

@swostikasharma9647

Ай бұрын

He wasn't bad. After The Dance of Dragons events, to establish balance is almost impossible. He did good for someone who was a victim, traumatized, had PTSD and mentally not well. He did favour small folks. But in case of dragons, he was the one who caused their "extinction?" and because Viserys asked him to revive the eggs, he agreed and tried his best. So yeah, he was not bad, he was decent the circumstances were at fault.

@Collin-to1oe

24 күн бұрын

​@@Chadius_ThundercockThe measure of him as a man is not necessarily what makes him a good or bad king. The realm was rebuilt by Visy2, but during Aegons reign.

When talking Aegon IV vs. Visery I, you have to take in their personalities. Viserys TRIED to do right by his family and the realm. He just wasn't strong enough. Aegon simply didn't give a f' about anything but himself and literally wanted the world to burn after his death.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

That’s an excellent point, and great reasoning for putting Viserys above Aegon, however I still think they’re near the bottom of the barrel.

@RahmanShayek

9 күн бұрын

Viserys wasn’t strong that’s why he legitimate STRONG boi to sit on the throne 😂

Paddy made Viserys a compelling character, but the man absolutely destroyed the Targaryens. thanks to his weakness, they lost their dragons... END of their power

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

I’d say that was more because of house Hightowers plotting

@MyUserTubeAccount

8 ай бұрын

@@jakealter5504 like i said, thanks to his weakness. Daemon wasn't fooled, neither was Rhaenyra.

@concept5631

20 күн бұрын

​@@jakealter5504 Which he could have easily stopped had he not married a Hightower or kept a Hightower as hand of the king.

@jakealter5504

20 күн бұрын

@@concept5631 true

@yoooo790

18 күн бұрын

Wait until you hear about aegon lV.

I would actually defend Aerys II somewhat, as it's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. Tywin behaved uncharacteristically rash in his siege of Duskendale, almost spelling out the fact that if Aerys died, Rhaegar would take his place. A thing that many of the nobles wanted. It's not a far leap to say they wanted him to die as a hostage, and were provoking Lord Darklyn to carry out his threats. On top of being a prisoner for months, it's understandable he developed a mental illness, and deserves some pity. Even his jerkass behaviour to Tywin could have just been attributed to kings being kings. And if he felt he needed to keep Tywin Lannister down, he'd be right; the man is shrewd and powerhungry. The irony, if we give Aerys credit, is that he might have been entirely correct in his assumptions about people, reading them like an open book and seeing them all for the traitorous pit of vipers they are. He just never bothered to hide his contempt very well, and they all hated him for shouting that the emperor has no clothes.

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

That’s true but Tywin warned him to not go to duskendale and aerys was well known for doing exactly the opposite of what his hand (Tywin) advised

@ccorvid

8 ай бұрын

also, as much as I wanna sympathize and agree with your reading of him, we can't forget all of his incredibly abusive treatment towards all the women in his life: Rhaella, Joanna, and his many mistresses. plus, the "kings being kings" mindset is exactly what makes for a terrible king. a king should not act rashly and do whatever he wants just because he sees other political powers for the vipers they are. he should still think, and act with a calm manner and grace, not just for courtesy's sake, but also because reacting harshly only adds fuel to the fire, which is something he actually loved doing in particular, you may recall. and he did suffer from mental illnesses, then with the medicines available to them in their society being unable to treat him, it means that he is simply not fit to rule. (which may then point us to seeing that monarchies and feudalism as systems in general may just be unfit for societies as well.)

@crim1188

3 ай бұрын

Okay no. Aerys was antagonistic to Tywin, who was his friend at this point, long before Duskendale. He acted like a petulant child and what little he decreed was stupid. The realm was run by Tywin. Kings being kings is NOT an excuse. Especially not when the man they're treating like shit is a friend of theirs and the actual most powerful man in the realm. His trip to Duskendale was absurdly stupid and done just to spite others. If he could read others so well, he wouldn't have went now would he? All the lords goading the rebels into killing Aerys were justified in doing so as well. He was an utter failure as a king even before he went completely mad

Great list but one note: I believe Daeron II brought Dorne into the fold. Baelor ended Daeron I's war in Dorne and married Daeron II to a Martell (although I guess that means he indirectly brought Dorne into the fold because Daeron II's Dornish wife likely influenced him to court Dorne)

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

True! Though I give Viserys/Baelor a lot of credit for getting that ball rolling.

@PhilHug1

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM fair point

@brodystambaugh5149

20 күн бұрын

​@@QuinnTheGM They deserve the credit Baelor after all did make peace with dorne, but he did not unite them with the rest of westeros. Nor was Daenerys his sister. She was Daeron II's and it was HE that officially brought dorne into the rest of the kingdom, (with her marriage and his own).

With Baelor I think people also overlook that his building of his great Sept brought the High Septon from Oldtown and therefore the head of the faith of the 7 to King’s Landing. This is pretty huge as pretty much everyone south of the neck (aside from the Iron Islands & some houses like the Blackwoods) worship the 7 and now the Targaryens have easy influence over the head of that faith.

@sachamason3116

Жыл бұрын

he is bottom of D tier, worst king by a long shot

@BlueisNotaWarmColour

Жыл бұрын

@@sachamason3116 worse than Aerys II? Substantiate!

@sachamason3116

Жыл бұрын

@@BlueisNotaWarmColour Aerys lost the throne, but that was in large part due to his son, his counselors, and perhaps supernatural forces. Baelor was an awful person and anti-magic, and the stuff he did ensured the targarians demise.

@BlueisNotaWarmColour

Жыл бұрын

@@sachamason3116 he lost the throne because his paranoia and bloodlust upset any prospect of political stability, which was what triggered the actions of his son and counselors and the realm at large. Aerys didn't just lose the throne, he tried to blow it up

@blackfish5139

Жыл бұрын

@@sachamason3116 so, most of the kings are rapist and murderers.

Jaeherys' only mistake was the succession and passing over Rhaenys. His daughters was not his fault. He can't control if they'd die in childbirth or fall off a horse. Or at least alysanne should be equally blamed if we're blaming people unfairly. Saera was a narcissist bully who abused her sister Daella, sexually harassed the mentally slow court fool, slept around shamelessly, coerced her friends into sleeping with her boyfriends and getting pregnant, threw maegor into her dad's face knowing what he'd done to her dad, tried to steal a dragon, killed a nun, and ran off to lys and volantis to be a whore, never answering her mother's letters or even so much as sending flowers to her sisters funerals. Saera was not a victim, if anything jaeherys spoiled her and his harsh punishment could be seen as overcorrection, but it's not undeserved. Actions have consequences, supposed double standards are irrelevant.

@Cristobalaraneda-n2u

6 күн бұрын

It is true that Saera commits quite questionable actions that she did things that do not have much justification, but in my opinion Saera was a victim of circumstances, Saera was the youngest of her sisters and despite having competent characteristics, she was never given the attention she needed. Not only does being a princess mean that she cannot feel alone and abandoned by her parents who did not give her attention, as a result she became rebellious and did questionable actions to get her parents' attention, and the fact that she was a woman In a patriarchal society, she was judged much more than other men in her family if in that case he had taken those actions, ending up exploding by being imprisoned in a castle and seeing your friend being murdered by your own father and being locked in a convent to be "reformed" if you think about it, her situation is quite traumatic, I think that people judge her by how she was because of her attitudes that were quite questionable, but they do not delve into how difficult it was to be a woman, especially in those times, And as for the double standard, clearly it was there since the actions they took against Saera would not have been so harsh if it had been the case of a man and the fact that Saera was the only woman alive after escaping and leaving her life in the royalty, it means a lot when all her sisters died when they were forced to marry and have children like her sister Daella, that means that the problem is not with the women themselves and I think that what it means in itself is that patriarchal society, especially in Royalty pressured women into a standard that all of Saera's sisters ended up dead, Saera was a free spirit and did not submit to that system and survived, the problem was never her herself, it was how the system treated women

Just a suggestion, I’d love to see a video like this ranking the Queen Consorts. Some we may not know much about, but there are some really good rulers in there as well :)

The reason the Targaryen dynasty survived Aegon IV is because he didn't have an Aegon IV to weaken the dynasty as badly as he has and get them to the point where the mad king was. Honestly, since the Dance of the Dragons each following generation seemed to lose more power rather than regain it, primarily due to the loss of dragons. I also think you did Jaehaerys I an injustice regarding dropping him below Aegon, and besides judging a Westeros king by Earth's standard of "sexism", which in itself is kind of a ridiculous argument, the guy literally abolished the lord's rights to prima nocta. His comment towards Saera of "she always was" referencing that she was a whore was 100% justified and true. Not only did she lie to him and the three men that got punished for her whoring, but she ended up being an actual whore in Lys. It's not sexist to call a whore a whore, and that's what her mother Alysanne said. Jaehaerys just confirmed it. He even fought personally to try and reclaim some of her honor, and after the entire fiasco, he became gaunt and old, at age 50 because he was heartbroken. Really think he should sit at the tippy top of S tier. Aegon was good, but had nowhere near the record of Jaehaerys nor the longevity.

Another plus for Jaehaerys, the Conciliator, was that he recognized competence in Septon Barth enough to make him Hand. As far as we can tell, Barth was an extremely good Hand. Archmaester Gyldayn described him as the wisest in history, and Barth's enemies called him more sorceror than septon, which is a positive thing in my opinion 😂

It’s hard to rank Viserys now because of Paddy’s portrayal. He was not a great man like many Targaryen’s but he was a good man, unlike many Targaryen’s.

If Aemon the Dragonknight was king instead of his unworthy older brother, the realm would’ve prospered & could’ve been an A to S tier king.

@Rougarou99

Жыл бұрын

He had been Kingsguard since Aegon III. However, it is often those who forsook power that probably deserved it.

@zulqarnainaqeelbazmi780

Жыл бұрын

There are so many "What ifs" man. If Aemon hadn't stood where he stood and took an arrow on his neck. If baelon hadn't died. If Baelor breakspear hadnt died. so many what ifs.

@judeconnor-macintyre9874

Жыл бұрын

He was a good knight and a good man but would he have been a good ruler?

@Rougarou99

Жыл бұрын

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 Raised by Viserys II, under the reign of Aegon III, I think he would have made a good ruler.

Viserys the first let a war happen out of ignorance Aegon the 4th started a war out of spite

Found your channel after grooving on Alt Shift / Schwift for a couple of years. SO GREAT! One piece of 51% serious criticism: I get sad when I open a video and I see that you manage to rank a dozen or so kings in sixteen minutes. Feel free to let it all hang out and drone on for two hours any time!

I will say about Jaehaerys the 1st though. I don't believe he was being outright sexist. He was upholding ancient andal customs. Such as when his eldest son, Aemon died. Jaehaerys didn't just pass over Aemon's daughter on a whim. He discussed the matter with his small council at length. Citing that andal customs of male primogeniture. The love of the smallfolk was also considered as they hailed Baelon a hero for avenging his brother. As for how he treated his daughter, Saera. I really don't blame him for being angry. I mean, how would you feel if your daughter compared herself to your uncle who murdered your brothers? Also, regarding the great council of 101. If not for the great council, the dance of the dragons may have occured 28 years earlier than it actuslly did. Since the 2 main claimants had dupporters rallying fighters to support their claimants' rights. So if Jaehaerys just chose between Rhaenys or Viserys to succeed him, the other side would have likely rebelled and fought.

@Mcherri

8 күн бұрын

The problem was with that they could’ve dealt with a rebellion if necessary had he named rhaenys like he was suppose to and yes he was sexist through and through maybe not so in the beginning but he definitely was during and near the end alysanne was constantly at him because of it she wanted rhaenys on the throne and I believe that’s why aemon and Jocelyn never had any more children either had aemon been alive he would’ve put his foot down to his father for this being she was his only heir. I believe jaehareys just didn’t care anymore and palmed it off to the council to decide which was the biggest mistake and in the end regardless of what the lords want it’s the king who chooses otherwise what is the point of having or being the goddam king. At most it was the lords who were extremely sexist and this is made clear with alysanne when she brings forth a plan and they just patronize her because she is a female they only listen to the idea due to her being the queen and jaehareys just said nothing. The people would’ve accepted a queen they were ready for rhaenyra so why not the beloved daughter of the oldest of jaehareys sons.

@vitaaeris

5 күн бұрын

If you go along and embrace sexist costumes, then you’re sexist. It’s pretty straightforward 😅

I'll defend Aegon ll. By the end of his reign he had gone crazy due to milk of the poppy and the loss of his entire family. He seemed to actually start off as a decent war time King, but got cut short after having both his legs destroyed after him and Aemond's battle with Rhaenys ended up with them falling out of the sky.

@daedalus3726

8 күн бұрын

He made dumb decisions even BEFORE he was incapacitated by his injuries during the Battle of Rook's Rest. Removing Otto as Hand was one of the biggest mistakes that he made early on in the dance. Choosing Cole as the replacement too? Disaster. Drinking and whoring, ignoring wise counsel from his council members. Throwing an entire feast just to celebrate a child's death. Aegon II was already doomed to begin with. And as much as how brave and heroic it is for a King like him to participate in Rook's Rest, risking his life for it was incredibly stupid and he was literally just lucky that he survived that fall and didn't succumb to his injuries. Him being incapacitated by his injuries led to Aemond and Cole ruling their faction for him, as both of these mfs are warhungry and very impulsive in their decisions which eventually led to the Blacks capturing King's Landing and their Riveralnds campaign failing. Rhaenyra died because her council was dumb and she listened to their dumb advises. Aegon II died because he was ignorant of the wise counsel of his wise council members. Tyland and Larys carried the Greens.. either of them should've been whom Aegon appointed as Hand and Regent.. not Cole and Aemond

@nhoodjazz

2 күн бұрын

Fuck the Hightowers

Jahaerys's sexism is very interesting as he himself does not seem to think low of women, but is reluctant to put them in positions of power because the world is sexist. He decisions remind me of that Logan Roy line from Succession: "of course you being a woman is a negative, I didn't make the world". People jump to his defense saying that Rhaenys was too young when Aemon died, and Balon was already a capable adult, so the choice seemed simple, but that is bs since Balon could've been named protector until Rhaenys came of age. This decision probably soured Jahaerys-Alyssane relationship. I think it was his sexism that he hid from Alyssane, hiding behind the fact that Balon had felt slighted all his life because of him being the "spare" and Aemon being the "heir" (GRRM wanted to start off HotD with the sibling rivalry of Aemon and Balon but that didn't happen because it would've added another season of build-up to the Dance). Alyssane would remember his dismissal of Rhaena and his sexism would've been plain for her to see now that he dismissed Rhaenys, leading them to separate. However, Saera does not seem to be a good person, I understand that the story is told from a male perspective, (Septon Barth's version of events), so we need to take her 'manipulative nature' with a grain of salt but if we look at her treatment of the fool Tom Turnip she does seem like a cruel person with a superiority complex. Seems like Jahaerys was only wroth with her after he had given her too many chances already.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

GREAT use of a Logan Roy quote there, sums it up perfectly.

@Captain_Insano_nomercy

Жыл бұрын

Yeah fr I don't understand how Jaeharys is a villain in the Saera situation. He handled it like any rational monarch would. She hurt the family image and that shit is everything in that world. She jeopardized her family, by who's authority she was a pampered princess. She fucked around and found out

@erichreichenbach2923

Жыл бұрын

In the books remember, Jahaerys completely removes himself from the great council. The show makes it seem as though he had a major part, but in the book he leaves it completely to the lords to choose the heir. His worst acts I think are honestly his forcing of Daella to be married, leading to her death, and actively making Baelon heir over Rhaenys before Baelons Death. Saerra was not just a girl fooling around that he shamed, she was also a manipulative girl who didn’t care what happened to the people she fooled around with. And I think his last monologue to Alyssane about Saerra is actually extremely well argued, if not brutally honest and blunt.

@Thegr8khans

17 сағат бұрын

Also, don’t forget about Saera putting snakes in Daella’s bedchamber and bees in her chamber pot when she knew Daella had a phobia of both

Baelor Breakspear would've been S tier

I'd put Rhaenyra in C tier because she deserves credit for what she did as a Queen before taking over Kingslanding and when she actually took the Iron Throne she only was poor towards the small folk because the Greens took all the gold from the royal coffers leaving her unable to do much of anything

Would have been cool to include the never crowned Crownprinces, like Rhaegar, Viserys or Baelor Breakspear.

@nicksmithnutmilk

3 ай бұрын

Aegon The Uncrowned B tier Aerea C tier Aemon S tier Baelon S tier Daemon C tier Rhaenyra D tier Baelor Breakspear A tier Rhaegel D tier Aerion Brighflame D tier Daeron The Drunkard C tier Rhaegar C tier Viserys The Beggar C tier

@moritzl4024

3 ай бұрын

@@nicksmithnutmilk Baelor Breakspear is a easy S and Aerion should be F Tier. Also Pre War Rhaenyra is at A Tier, so on average she is B Tier.

@nicksmithnutmilk

3 ай бұрын

@@moritzl4024 Rhaenyra wanted to put a bastard on the Throne , even pre war Rhaenyra is a C at best mainly becuse of that . And I agree with Baelor , he was great . I forgot about Aerion's son . He was quite promising if I remember correctly even as a child . His name being Maegor and Aerion being his father are the only reasons the Great Council choose Aegon V instead of him

@kyber3537

7 күн бұрын

Rhaegar - S Viserys - C Baelor - S Rhaenyra - D Rhaenys - A

Daeron the young dragon: too bad he died young, he could have achieved more after Dorne His brother Baelor: thank god he didn't live longer, he might have gave the faith its own army again

Great video! Loved the Viserys II video, so was fun seeing your opinions on the rest.

I like that you talk about Aegon holding Westeros together after conquering it. Many many times in the history of GRRM's world (Gyles III Gardener, Lancel I Lannister, Qarlton II Durrandon, Monfryd I Durrandon (under not 1 or 2 but *3* of his successors,)) someone has managed a great conquest, but as soon as they die, all of their gains are undone (or in some cases, they lose some or all of their gains even *before* they die!) A recent well-known example is Aegon's descendent Daeron I; he spent 10,000 lives taking Dorne and another 40,000 battling to hold onto it, but the Dornish still managed to assassinate him and as soon as he was dead, all of Dorne rose in rebellion and everything he had worked for was quickly undone. Given that GRRM has said that Daeron I takes inspiration from Alexander the Great, whose empire fragmented as soon as he died, this makes sense.

Naw I agree with you about Viserys I being better than Aenys, and possibly even above Maegor for the "high in C tier" position. Absolutely he could not have possibly fumbled the ball worse when it comes to leading to The Dance of the Dragons, but he DID preside over a 26-year-long peaceful reign. Otto did honestly made a good point in HOTD when he said that Viserys should be proud of having continued Jaehaerys's legacy. Between the two of them they gave the realm 81 years of peace and plenty; that's huge in modern times, let alone in a medieval timeframe like GRRM's world.

I'm not even gonna lie, George RR Martin's books taught me a lot about the human condition at conflict with itself. His use of grey-characters is what makes his world so intriguing. My favorite King's are Jaehaerys I and Viserys II. Aegon III also has a special place in my heart.

Daeron the Good was the one who brought Dorne into the fold, not Baelor the Blessed.

Maegor would have been remembered as a great king if he just had a sudden heart attack the moment after he disarmed the faith

Maegor should have assumed the title of lord regent after returning from exile and rescued Aegon and rhaena. He’s undeniably the power behind the throne but he has no kids. He can even marry Alyssa and play the role rogar played. They they fight the faith together. After Visenya dies, prince Viserys the middle son of Aenys gets vhagaf

I'm looking to play d&d soon with some friends GOT has most things if you include old wives tales do you think you could do a video on a d&d campaign in the game of thrones universe that I could use?

Great video as always

The king who got killed by a catapult reminds me of James II of Scotland, who loved canons, and died after one exploded by him when he was trying to take Roxburgh Castle.

Bro put a mf named " Maegor the *Cruel* " in C tier, and above people like Viserys and Aenys💀

@Chadius_Thundercock

3 ай бұрын

Aenys and Viserys are both responsible for massive civil wars because of their weakness, with the latter being the direct cause for the beginning of the downfall for the dynasty. At least Maegor disarmed the faith militant

@Crispifordthe3rd515

3 ай бұрын

@@Chadius_Thundercock The civil war wasn't even inherently his fault, that was the force of others who wouldn't just give up their ambitions as well as the mix of the sexist culture of Westeros (or I suppose the medieval world in general). He rules for some 30+ years of pure peace before that. Sure it was his Grandfather who forged that for him, but keeping it up for 3 decades??? That's nothing to scoff at. And Aenys while incredibly weak, didn't do anything wrong. Maegor is an incredibly evil person, and the only good thing he did was disarm a religious militant order...that's it. That's literally it. Just because Maegor *did* something does not make him a good leader. And it sure as shit doesn't make him a better one the the other 2 considering how evil he is. Especially considering he literally had EVERY Lord except a handful of unfortunate fools aid him in the end. And he went out like a coward. Killing himself on his throne. Because we know damn well they throne doesn't have a mind of its own, and who else would have killed him? 👀

Think you confused Daeron 2 with Baelor with bringing Dorne into the fold. Cause Daenerys was Daerons sister not Baelor's. And Dorne joined the 7 kingdoms during Daerons reign not baelors if I'm not mistaken.

@mysteryjunkie9808

Жыл бұрын

He did but Baelor arranged the marriage alliance of Daeron and Daerons sister and made peace with Dorne from Daerons war. So he definitely gets credit for starting the process

Aegon II made one (1) good decision in his entire life, and that was keeping Otto Hightower as his hand, and he eventually canceled that out by firing Otto

great vid!

Great list. I might have bumped Aerys I and Jaehaerys II up to B tier above Baelor.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

That’s entirely valid. At least due to Bloodraven on the first count!

@Mr.PepeSilvia

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM all hail King Bloodraven lol

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

A thousand eyes and one!

This was a really good ranking, it would be interesting to see a ranking of all of the major hands of the king, although that would be a bit longer

@TheChefEgg

Жыл бұрын

Found yo punk ass

Quinn your channel bangs

Jae II should be B Tier at least, I'd personally put him in A tier. Only bad things about him were 2 fold; He was sickly and didn't live long and he wasn't a fighter. And even then, he STILL was ready to lead the charge and take the fight to Meleys the Monstrous on the step stones. Blood of the dragon he was!

Whoa, Daeron II is BELOW Aegon III? The guy undid all of the excesses in his father's reign and was noted to be very honorable and intelligent. Viserys might have gotten him married to Myriah Martell, but they made it work. He established a strong family, and only two things marred his very prosperous reign: the First Blackfyre Rebellion (which really wasn't his fault), and the Spring Sickness (which is a disease). Aegon III needed to lean on his brother at times and his moods (his PTSD) sometimes made him less-than-effective.

A strong argument for Aegon the Unworthy being worse than The Mad King is to point out the role that the Blackfyres are _suspected_ to have had in contributing to The Mad King's downfall.

How could you leave out the best king of all, Gaemon Palehair!

Love the voice cracks. Also, can't wait for Scarlet & Violet

Great video

is there a breakdown of the best Hand s of the king?

you’re very real for ranking aegon iii as high as you did

How you going to put Daeron II below Aegon III?!

Agree with everything except that I’d put Daeron II above Viserys II ( the guy resolved a major crisis ,left the realm well ruled after his death and annexed Dorne) and Baelor above Daeron I (Westerosi Saint Louis didn’t lose 100k guys in a military disaster against the Martells)

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Agreed with Baelor above Daeron in retrospect.

Good list. I thought that might've put Daeron II and Aegon V in S but the reasoning is sound.

I mostly agree except I would put Jahaerys I a bit over Aegon I and Daeron II above Aegon III.

Spot on in regards to Maegor.

I typed "Worst Ta" in the search bar and KZread knew exactly where I was going with that. 😂

I’m still upset that he didn’t put Viserys II in first place as best ruler, seriously it was your list you can rank them exactly the way you want them too. I would have ranked Viserys II as the best king as well.

@thatoneblackdude3333

Жыл бұрын

Visarys 2 had the potential to be a great king but he never realized it due to him dying.

@roronoalaw7772

Жыл бұрын

Jaehaerys was easily the best King, got the most shit done

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

He doesn’t have anything that puts him above Aegon I or Jaeherys I

Idk if you still read this but what tier would Bobby B be? Compared to the Targs.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Probably B tier. The realm was peaceful and prosperous under his rule but that was thanks to Jon Arryn.

"Richard III type character" you think he murdered his nephews?

Not that i have an opinion either way, but i often hear Jaehaerys II credited with making Aegon V's policies stick after Egg alienated the lords.

Just imagine how amazing Aegon III would've been without his crippling deppression, or his older half-brother Jacaerys "my buddies are wolfs" Velaryion

@DL-yr6ne

9 сағат бұрын

Aegon lll was already shit when he was born. During his reign all the dragons died.

I agree with the list the only thing I’d change is Daeron the first being number 1 in A tier

THE RANKLIST I BOTH WANTED AND NEEDED

Maekar deserves more credit I think, underrated and overshadowed next to his older brother as he was seen by most as the greatest knight in the realm but that doesn’t mean maekar wasn’t another one of the best battle commanders to sit the iron throne. He famously deserved more credit according to those who knew him and the realm did well while he was governing it, apart from the rebellion you called pointless it was a peaceful realm, top of a tier if you ask me

I do love that the Targaryen dynasty has a nice even spread of great, good and bad kings. Makes it very believable that this foreign dynasty lasted nearly 300 years.

I love your list bro I totally agree with it

Viscerys II is amazing but isn’t everything we know of him doing that was so amazing him as Hand and not as king? I agree he was the greatest Hand in the history of the Realm, but I don’t think he got a chance to distinguish himself as king since he died a year after Baelor did.

Love the list, glad to see you appreciate the nuances in certain characters - Maegor and Jaehaerys especially, as two sides of the same coin. Maegor is a terrible person but generally not as bad a king as some say; even the major war he fought against the Faith wasn't actually started in his reign, but had been brewing for many years by that point. As you said so well, he is a very strong reason why the Targaryens lasted so long. Jaehaerys is almost the opposite, people rate him highly because of who he was as a king (which is fair) but fail to look at who he was as a person and, as you said, it was actually kind of disgusting how he treated his own daughters. Saera was a problem and certainly not a good person in her own right, but can anyone say he would've treated his son the same? Even punishing her, he didn't need to make her watch as he killed her lover. He fought with Alysanne about naming Dany I as his heir, and then passed over Rhaenys (he knew the Lords of the Realm would skip a woman if they had the chance). While he was a brilliant ruler in his own right, I think Alysanne proved a much larger influence than people seem to give her credit for.

@Captain_Insano_nomercy

Жыл бұрын

Wait, people felt sympathy for Saera?? Wtf lol. I didn't feel any pity for her at all. She knew the cost of being a pampered and privileged noble. Suck it up. And Stinger deserved what he got too, the audacity to fuck the kings daughter in Kings Landing. That boy had it coming. Jaeharys was a BAMF

@einherjar9364

Жыл бұрын

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Saera was a problem and deserved punishment, as I said, but the issue was not that Jaehaerys handled it, it was *how* he handled it. Instead of actually attempting to get to the cause of the problem (which, by the way, does not happen over night. 'She knew the cost of being pampered and rich and noble' did she? She was born that way. If you don't want your kid to be stuck up being brought up in that setting, its on you to intervene before they become so. Jaehaerys seems a large part of why she became so spoiled) he publicly humiliated her and made her watch as he murdered her lover. Was she a spoiled brat? Absolutely she was, as a lot of royals are. However, everything she does reads more as a teenage girl acting out than anything genuinely malicious. She has a couple boyfriends, gets drunk, responds stubbornly when dad tells her to pull her head in. Jaehaerys was part of why she ended up how she did and then rather than actually attempting to deal with it, he blew up and essentially shipped her off so he didn't have to actually take meaningful action. As for Jaehaerys being a BAMF, he was quite clearly a sexist (and not just in the regular way that all ASOIAF men are sexist lmao, I'm not expecting them to have modern values), and not only that, but it's pretty easy to see he regretted what happened with Saera. He refused to hear her name, forbade Alysanne contact with her and all sources say losing her changed him as a person. Not only that, but of all his lost daughters - Daenerys, Alyssa, Maegelle, Daella and Gael, all of whom were far better behaved and model daughters - it was Saera he saw in Alicent's face. Fire and Blood speaks of how he spoke remorsefully to her, believing it to be Saera. Does any of that sound like a man who was happy with his actions, or satisfied in their justification?

@Captain_Insano_nomercy

Жыл бұрын

@@einherjar9364 he did what he had to bro. Hard times require hard men. You wanna be weak like Aerys II? Your family gets ousted from power and massacred to boot okay, people followed strength in the medieval world. Jaeharys did what he had to, and actually the world was very sexist, and he wasn't particularly more sexist at all in my opinion, he just knew the way the wind was blowing. His two sons were upright children of the crown, Saera was a deviant Actually most of his kids were upright members of the royal family, even Viserra wasn't as bad

@zulqarnainaqeelbazmi780

Жыл бұрын

Yes. He did the smart thing and passed over rhaenys. And not only by an order but by vote. Viserys did not do it in rhaenyra's case and look what happened. Stop trying to seep modern world morals into fiction. The fact that Alysanne or visenya had so much influence is a miracle in mediaval times. That should tell you how much Aegon and Jaehaerys were NOT as sexists at the men of that time.

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

@@Captain_Insano_nomercyagreed. Out of all 13 of his kids only 3 of them had some personality issues and of those 3 Saera was the worst one by far

How about Maegor the 3rd and Orlys the 1st?

Its really interesting how the king regarded in history as the best king sowed the seeds of the worst moment in westerosy history, Jahaerys mistake with Rhaenys being passed down had a huge domino effect and while the dance is Viserys fault (or Otto's) I think Jahaerys had a big role in it. I wish we could learn more of Rhaenys as the history seems to kinda push her aside other than her title, but many times with the problems of the realm I can't help but to think she would have been great at dealing with the situation had she been Queen or at least had more power. I really do think she was the best dragon ridder at the time with how much she mounted Meleys, and I really wished that George at least injured Vhagar after their fight.

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

That was only part of the problem, you’re overlooking the large part that Otto Hightower played in the war happening

@miguelsanchez825

8 ай бұрын

@@jakealter5504 when did I do that? I know Otto may be the one at the biggest fault for the Dance lol.

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

@@miguelsanchez825 true

If you still check these comments, a tier list of the potential monarchs in the main series would be cool.

Being a 4th son of a 4th son, aegon v was the most unlikely king and rose the the office. He sent blood raven to the wall for killing the blackfyre. He tried to bring back dragons at summer hall. But following Duncan the tall around the seven kingdoms and not being treated like a king all his life prob helps him in my book. The story of how a boy named egg becomes king aegon v of his name is a damn good story. Aegon v is top 3 kings ever

To be fair to Jaehaerys, throughout his entire life woman tended to let him down except for his wife, also he was as deceit towards his daughters as Alysane was to her sons, countless time she brings up the rights of her daughters or granddaughters but arely does she do this for her sons, plus Alysane thought the eldest child no matter the gender should rule, by that Logic her sister should have been queen and after her her nieces, which would mean Alysane and her children would get nothing

@jakealter5504

8 ай бұрын

Only problem with that is that Rhaena chose not to make a claim for the throne after Maegor died

I hope Fire & Blood vol 2 (if we ever get it) acknowledges the ravens that must have been flying between the Red Keep and Sunspear the entire time Baelor was walking as Viscerys actually negotiated the treaty his new king wanted.

To be fair I love most of the rankings I personally would put Viserys II as A tier exclusively because 90% of his accomplishments were before he was actually king and he only rules a year. As actual King he did not rule long enough to justify S in my personal opinion.

@magister343

Жыл бұрын

He was never a legitimate king! Viserys the usurper stole the throne from the rightful Queen Daena the Defiant, and then passed it on to his unworthy son whom he'd forced to wet a woman he hated rather than Daena.

@DL-yr6ne

9 сағат бұрын

Viserys ll was not smart but he had a smart right Hand Otto Hightower. Besides that he was calm but I do not think he would achieve big things like Aegon the Conquerer.

@brentwyrick3300

2 сағат бұрын

@@DL-yr6ne That was Viserys the First I'm referring to Viserys II

do the hand of the king version

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Ooh that’d be a fun one.

Finally a youtuber who recognizes Aegon the conqueror's true place amongst his descendants. But at the same time when it comes to general ruling i feel like Aegon the second was downplayed by a lot especially considering his courts ruling decisions and him winning a civil war with just 4-5 dragons.

@mysteryjunkie9808

Жыл бұрын

Aegon II was a warrior no doubt about that he had 4 to 13 dragons and 28 to 53 Houses and still managed to Win.

Only big change I would make is putting maegor behind jahaerys II, but otherwise great!

I hope we see the Peake Uprising in the dunc and egg show. love how the new lord roger reyne was just slicing off peake heads because his father died in that rebellion as well before he was calmed down by Egg.

Personally I think that the consequences of Aegon the Unworthy's rule make him the worst King. Yes, Aerys the Mad brought the dynasty crashing down but the rebellion was equally blameable on his son Rhaegar too, whom he had no control over. Aegon IV meanwhile would cause via is own actions a series of civil wars that would plague Westeros for generations, causing the loss of both the Targaryen ancestral swords and destabilizing a large part of Essos as well. It's difficult to even understate just how badly his reign weakened the Targaryens.

Rank Princes od Dragonstone next because why not?

You also didn’t put Meakar

Baelor did not bring Dorne into the fold. That honour belonged to King Daeron the Good. Baelor was a dumb fanatic that made House Targaryen the laughing-stock of the Seven Kingdoms. C tier at best

solid list

Maegor was terrifying. The brute strength and his hot head, with giant Balerion the Black Dread to boot. But him destroying the faith Militant was the best gift for future Targaryen’s. In keeping up with their ‘traditions.’ No one ever spoke about it again.

The only thing I don’t agree with is Viserys I. He DID make it clear who he wanted his heir to be, but others circumvented the peaceful transfer of power. He could have stepped down before his death and crowned Rhaenyra but no king had done that before so it likely wasn’t considered an option. His problem, like many kings before and after, were his children. Rhaenyra was raised to be queen, but threw it all away to have multiple affairs and shame her house by birthing (very obviously) bastard children and then pretending they were legitimate. Not to mention marrying her uncle without the blessing of her father, the council, or the faith. Had she made better choices, her outcome would probably have been very different. He also could have done better by his other 3 children by raising them to be decent people but, again, he was not too concerned with actually teaching them honor, morality, loyalty, humility, etc.

Viserys was a great hand but he was only King for a year. He gives John Quicy Adams who was an excellent ambassador, Secretary of State and Congressman but didn’t do much as President.

Eeeeeh I think Aegon III is lower because after the Regency ended he did literally NOTHING for the throughout his reign. It was Viserys II that was really healing the realm. Plus he hated dragons and despite his “attempts” to revive them, he let them died out. It was really Daeron that uplifted the realm afterwards with the Conquest of Dorne

Jaehaerys II is so nothing that the show cut him out and no one cared lol.

quinn didnt aemond targaryen, (the brother of aegon the 2) become king at once when aegon was sick?

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

He was prince regent, not king.

@syntics7103

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM oh ok i wished that he was king much better than his brother

@Caraxes_RoguePrince

Күн бұрын

@@syntics7103not really they both the same trash leaders

Where would you place Daenerys on the list if she would have lived and ruled? Where would you place Jon if he was the next King?

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Great questions. If we’re judging by temperament and ability to rule, I’d say both of them would be A or B. However, I’d need to see exactly what they do in the books to make a more concrete judgement call.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the books the great council of 101 AC was between Viserys and Laenor not Rhaenys.

@frking100

11 күн бұрын

Correct. Most people forget that the council considered rhaenys inherentance right and deemed it by vote less strong than her very young son (laenor was like 2 years old). This precedent plus the precedent set by jahaerys when he "usurped" his older sister rhaena and her daughters with aegon the uncrowned is one justification that was used to support aegon II claim over rhaenyra.

Pretty good list.

I've got a slightly different order but nothing I can totally disagree with at all. I give massive props for your placement of Viserys II, he ran sh1t for years and sadly had a short time on the throne himself.

In what world you believe Maekar Targaryen is pronounced "Mike-are" considering how all of thier other names are pronounced???

Maegor, the savior of the Targaryen line.

Jaeherys I was by far the best, and Aegon IV was the worst

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Still this Aerys is worse, at least the realm survived the Blackfyre rebellions.

@takecharge5140

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM Aegon IV was not the worst only because of his final decision to legitimize his bastards, pretty much each and every decision he made during his reign was terrible

@faruquekhan3353

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM One thing you have to note, this Aerys already had a weak empire and his mistake just destroyed it but Aegon IV had a powerful empire which he weakened it by pure mistakes after mistakes. The Targaryan dynasty would have survived the mad king if they had dragons and had power like before but they did not. I also think Jahaerys I is the best. Personally he and Aegon I is tied for #1. Under Jahaerys I ruler the Targaryan dynasty really reached great power. He basically solidified Targaryan rule and made the realm prosperous and powerful. Also on that note, Aerys was a pretty good ruler economically as when he was deposed of there were lots of wealth left.

@1911odisea

Жыл бұрын

@@QuinnTheGM Aegon the Unworthy was still the worst, George said so himself. If Aegon didn't weaken the realm so terribly with the Blackfyre Rebellions, Aerys would be able to defeat Robert. It was also Aegon IV who weakened the legitimacy of the throne and introduced the idea that the Targeryens could be replaced - without that, not as many Lords would support Robert's rebellion. In a world without Aegon the Unworthy, Aerys continues to be the mad King for a couple years and then gets supplanted by Rhaegar.

I’m suprised they kept the throne so long after they lost the dragons

Would move Jahaerys down tbh but great video

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

And Rahenyra???