I like how classical Arabic breaks every rule Artifexian put

@fenugreekqueen6805

3 жыл бұрын

No it doesn't! Enlighten us!

@maeentell3259

3 жыл бұрын

​@@fenugreekqueen6805 3:37 First-person markers have more number distinctions than second, and second more than third. However, in Classical Arabic, the first person only has 2 (singular and plural) while the second and third have 3, (singular, dual, and plural) 6:15 Artifexian recommends that people only use gender distinction in the third person only. However Arabic uses it in both second and third person 7:35 Artifexian advises against using gender distinctions in the plural markers, but Arabic has gendered pronouns in both dual (which he also advised against in 7:55) and plural. 8:29 Artifexian says the number of pronoun cases should not be less than the number of noun cases. However, Arabic has 3 noun cases, 2 of which are used by the same pronoun case group. (Differentiated by whether they are used on a noun or verb)

@GuiSmith

3 жыл бұрын

@@maeentell3259 To quote a certain pirate, “They’re more like guidelines.”

@alexandernyberg8668

3 жыл бұрын

@@GuiSmith i don't think classical arabic was a big fan of the guidelines

@ryuko4478

2 жыл бұрын

@@maeentell3259 actually Classical Arabic does not distinguish gender in the dual pronouns! أنتما (/ʔantumaː/) and هما (/humaː/) are used for the masculine and feminine. Also Artifexian never said rules, they said "I advise" or "I recommend against".

Gonna go as crazy as Japanese: way too many pronouns that can all be dropped most of the time due to context and unclear gender distinctions.

@F2p7YshCn9

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was thinking of: watashi, boku, ore, jibun, uchi, atashi, ware, watakushi, etc (all can be used as "I")

@Orikron

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget the pseudo-pronoun way that the demonstratives こいつ/そいつ/あいつ (koitsu/soitsu/aitsu) which roughly translate to ‘this guy/that guy (that 2nd person mentioned or is with that 2nd person)/ that guy over there (third person away from both speaker and listener) but which are gender neutral, casual, and used a lot where we would use pronouns (especially aitsu in the place of he/she; I hear this a lot when someone wants to express annoyance at the attitude of someone who isn’t ‘here’).

@BlackM3sh

3 жыл бұрын

Does Japanese even have pronouns? I mean sure, they have (a lot of) words to refer to themselves, the listener and others. However they are not special in any way, basiacally just normal nouns, unlike e.g. English. They are usually quite long for being a pronoun, changes frequently with newer words being coined and don't have any special rules for use that differs from nouns. Like 手伝ってあげた私 makes sense in Japanese, but you can't say the same in English, "the I that helped you", as pronouns can't be described with relative clauses.

@F2p7YshCn9

3 жыл бұрын

@@BlackM3sh Yes, Japanese does have pronouns. A "pronoun" is simply a word that is used to substitute a noun or noun phrase. Since words like "watashi" don't have any clear meaning outside of context in the same way as "I", it is a pronoun and not a noun.

@BlackM3sh

3 жыл бұрын

@@F2p7YshCn9 So what word does 私 (watashi) replace? And if so what makes pronouns any different then replacing any other noun with a more generic noun? Like I can replace the phrase "Japanese citizen" with "person" in any sentence, so is "person" a pronoun?

Me: 11pm, time to go to bed. KZread: how to create your own ponouns in your own language? Me: very good point!

@smartart6841

3 жыл бұрын

Brain:congrats you wrote 128 pronouns! Me: too many. Im restarting

@user-yh1nm1vy3i

2 ай бұрын

Lmao it’s 10:59 pm for me rn

I have a conlang where instead of sex or gender, 3rd person pronouns are based on age. There's child pronouns and there's adult pronouns. There's a bunch of social rules associated with when it's okay for whom to refer to who with which pronouns, although a lot of it is similar to the use of formal you. There's also one set of pronouns for animals and one for everything else. It's for the better since they have three sexes and five genders and each individual can have any number of genders, including zero.

@HamTransitHistory

3 жыл бұрын

Do those social rules include using the 'wrong' pronoun as an insult? I.e. using the child pronoun when speaking to an adult.

@impishDullahan

3 жыл бұрын

One of my current conlang projects has something similar: it's distinction is based on size. You could apply the diminutives and augmentatives in such a way to refer to age but it also covers natural sex (sexual dimorphism), formality (size = power), and race (think halfling vs. human).

@Saturinus

3 жыл бұрын

D: I also have a conlang with an age thing. But it's more like a noun class system than pronouns specifically.

@lethinh9426

3 жыл бұрын

The pronouns based on age concept is exactly what Vietnamese does, although they include gender as well.

@possiblymisha

3 жыл бұрын

@@HamTransitHistory ngl the ‘wrong’ part makes it seem as though you mispronoun people on purpose

i made a 4th person pronoun for my conlang. it is used for people you’ve never met, and is a sign of respect for celebrities, politicians, and historical figures. it’s technically just a 3rd person formal, but it is a whole separate case.

@MizhiBirb

Жыл бұрын

ooh i love that so much

@HosheaManein

7 ай бұрын

interesting concept

Basically, pronouns can be adapted to agree with basically anything a language can have. The craziest pronoun system I've ever made agreed with person, gender, count, case and one of 4 emotions, positive, negative, violent and undistinguished. You could have a 1.SG.M.NOM.VIO, so Kyurejha "I am Jha and I'm angry".

@obviativ123

3 жыл бұрын

Funny idea 😂 Do inanimate things not have emotions? Or are they just always "undistinguished"? Or are the emotions used as metaphor, e.g. violent winter for harsh winter?

@sabikikasuko6636

3 жыл бұрын

@@obviativ123 nice question! Inert objects without what could be perceived as actions or events were often undistinguished. Say, a rock. However, inanimate things that affect us in some way, say a rock that being thrown at us, could be marked with how their actions or events makes us feel. A "raging storm" could be a violent (Rage, outlet) storm or a negative (Sadness, impotence, melancholy) storm. A chair is most often undistinguished, but it can be positive (Cozy, comfortable), or negative (I guess you see what they are lol). Of course they are commonly perceived standards, a bed doesn't feel, a chair doesn't feel, a storm *oftenly* feels negatively, a rock often doesn't feel until we are affected by their presence, in which case it'd feel violence.

@obviativ123

3 жыл бұрын

@@sabikikasuko6636 Interesting! I also like the grammatical prefixes in Kyure-jha - I use often prefixes and suffixes at the same time 😀

@5peciesunkn0wn

2 жыл бұрын

@@sabikikasuko6636 Lol. "Angry rocks" = thrown rocks.

Icelandic has gender distinctions in the third person plural. A group of men is masculine, a group of women is feminine and a group of neuter (like children) is neuter. Mixed groups usually takes the neuter.

@emilandreasson9670

3 жыл бұрын

Damn,, I thought I was unquie for having that in my conlang

@ppenmudera4687

3 жыл бұрын

@@emilandreasson9670 Nah, spme natlangs have it too. French for example has 'ils' for 2 or more men and 'elles' for 2 or more females.

@Ggdivhjkjl

3 жыл бұрын

@@ppenmudera4687, of course, a group of females with one male in the room is still referred to as "ils" though.

@ppenmudera4687

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ggdivhjkjl yeah, gotta love that classic Roman male preference that driped into Latins daughters

@novvain495

3 жыл бұрын

@@ppenmudera4687 It's not that Romans preferred males or something, it's just related to how the classes came to be. In PIE the "feminine" was only a subset of animate nouns, so the "masculine" was used for animate nouns in general which hasn't changed much in daughter languages.

I'm curious as to why at around 9:15 you say that your ONLY two options are to have either only independent person markers or both independent and dependent ones. Maybe it's just for convenience's sake, but actually that's not the only option. You can have a system with only dependent markers. Several languages of the Americas do this, and a lot of the words that pop up in dictionaries of those languages as "pronouns" are actually inflected verbs with those languages' dependent person markers attached to them that actually mean essentially "I am the one", "You are the one", etc. or something like that.

@TaiFerret

3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if independent pronouns usually form from such inflected verbs, especially first and second person pronouns. Though I'm sure there are other ways of evolving pronouns.

@majacovic5141

3 жыл бұрын

so, instead of I, you, he/she/it; its am, are, is?

@reinatheomni-panda7028

3 жыл бұрын

@@majacovic5141 In the languages I'm thinking of there are person markers that are inseparable from the verbs (and also often predicate nouns and adjectives, which enter the same paradigms as verbs) that take them. Often in dictionaries, especially older ones, of these languages, there will be entries for words labelled "pronouns" that are actually an inflected copula verb with that person marker attached to it, and often it's a form which only appears in contexts where someone is being emphatic or specific about something, like if I said, "I was the one who ate the cake." or "That's you in the photo." An example I like to use is from Lakota and Dakota, there's a copula "e" that is used in exactly those sorts of situations and would also pop out if I was being specific about a non-pronominal actant, such as "It was that dog that ate the cake." There are resources, especially old grammars and such, that will call the inflectional forms "miye", "niye", "uŋkiye" and so on as "pronouns" for "I", "you", and "we" and so on, but actually "miye" is decomposable into 1st person singular inactive person marker "mi" (which cannot stand on its own) + that copula "e", and so it is for all the other forms.

@majacovic5141

3 жыл бұрын

@@reinatheomni-panda7028 ah. i think i get it. thanks

@MrRyanroberson1

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah actually i worked on a conlang where the only pronouns were genitive prefixes that describe a noun as being owned by some person, with the verb agreeing with the person of the subject and object. It was interesting and totally sidesteps the need for independent pronouns

I noticed that use of "Grok"

@jameswalker199

3 жыл бұрын

You clocked that use of grok?

@alexandernyberg8668

3 жыл бұрын

@@yerdasellsavon9232 The second half of that book was written by drugs

"I recommend avoiding gender distinctions in plural forms" *Laughts in romance languages*

@yakitoly7461

3 жыл бұрын

Slavic too

@parralonger6148

3 жыл бұрын

Laughs in most languages

@andreluiz6023

2 жыл бұрын

@@parralonger6148 you mean most indo European languages

@wtc5198

2 жыл бұрын

@@yakitoly7461 yeah. Not a lot of people use the neuter plural pronoun tho, at least in Serbo-Croatian

@ocelots

2 жыл бұрын

@@andreluiz6023 really just most romance and slavic languages (and Greek), most germanic (English, German, Swedish), Celtic (Irish and I just kinda assume others), and Indic (Hindi doesn’t really have proper 3rd person pronouns and Bengali) languages don’t generally distinguish gender in plural pronouns

4:00 There's also the royal "we". Cone to think of it, I've heard that in ancient China there was a first person pronoun which could only be used by the sitting emperor. Not much clusivity there!

@tomkerruish2982

3 жыл бұрын

*Come

@auroraec2657

3 жыл бұрын

I think you may be thinking about the pronoun "寡人" for the first person pronoun which could only be used by the sitting emperor. Off to a tangent, that is also meant to be a polite form, as it meant "a person that is not sufficient in morality" or whatever the English phrase is, apologies but I am not good at English.

@line888togheyhenom2

3 жыл бұрын

As far as I know, there's also the more Classical 朕(Zhèn/Zahm)

@meowheeze6264

3 жыл бұрын

in Malay language of Southeast Asia, "beta" is the 1st person singular pronoun used by the royal family to address themselves to ordinary folk. ordinary folk must only use "patik" as 1st person singular pronoun to talk to the royal family. kinda interesting in contrast to English that only use "I" regardless of your social class (royal or ordinary people)

@drawingjamaa9267

3 жыл бұрын

Is this similar to the honorific speech used in Pohnpeian?

Tagalog pronouns have inclusive and exclusive "we" and no gender. Personally, just the right balance 😉

@dionysianapollomarx

3 жыл бұрын

It's what I love about Tagalog. Skips the complications unlike Indo-European languages. Why does an inanimate object have a gender in French?

@aronpacino8009

3 жыл бұрын

@@dionysianapollomarx Hi! I'm both a Tagalog speaker and a French speaker. It is true that Tagalog is an easy language (if not for the verbs) due to the lack of noun genders, but, I've complained also the same thing in French. Pourquoi est-ce qu'une pomme féminine mais un chocolat est masculin ? Cela veut dire qu'une pomme est une femme et un chocolat est un homme ? The point there was actually not to look them as genders. You can look at them like noun classifications because for some reason, words just flow in those languages better in one of those "classifications". And you just have to deal with them. Although saying « une belle manteau » won't hurt the meaning, it's just that, it does not flow well. That's the part that I can't explain. In Spanish, we can have this incorrect phrase « un bota negro ». There is this sort of agreement that the words of this class goes with the words within its class. If words of different classes come together, it just doesn't flow. TL;DR: The gender's more like a classification system. You can look at them as class A nouns and class B nouns whatsoever. Swedish does not have masculine and feminine anymore, but now classes its nouns as common and neuter

@aeaeeaoiauea

3 жыл бұрын

The map at 5:48 is wrong

@weonanegesiscipelibba2973

3 жыл бұрын

Meron din yung Dual(speaker at addresse) pero sa mga rural speaker(hindi lang Tagalog) lang mahanap yan. Caso ng Tagalog, at ibang wika(urban) , nasimplified ang wika.

@wordart_guian

3 жыл бұрын

@@dionysianapollomarx essentially, latin's neutral words ended up merging with the masculine (as in accusative, the only case that survived, both ended in -um), except for neutral nouns that were mostly used in the plural (-a), which merged with the feminine. so words that were initially neutral were distributed between masculine and feminine for phonetic reasons.

I would guess most languages treat the (1+1) option for “we” the same as the (1+3) option because it still doesn’t include any “2”s and you can easily re-analyze the auxiliary members of the speaker’s party as a 3rd party.

Yindjibarndi, Western Australia No Gender. Limited Clusivity. Four-fold 3rd Person Obviation: Here, There, Yonder, and Stressed Yonder. 3 Numbers; Singular, Dual Plural across all Persons and Obviations. Generational gap encoded across all Dual and 1st Person Plural forms. 10 Grammatical Cases

@jacksonp2397

3 жыл бұрын

Australian Aboriginal grammar is beautiful

@wilfstepto2406

3 жыл бұрын

@@jacksonp2397 And if you want more Australian Aboriginal grammar I would recommend my own Wordpress blog which is called Languages with Wilf.

"English doesn't have any noun cases" *Sad genetive noises*

Hey Artifexian! Do you think you could make a sequel to this one that covers other kinds of pronouns, like indefinite, demonstrative, reflex, and reciprocal? Words and phrases like “nobody” and “one another” seem pretty important to day-to-day speech, but I have no idea how to go about constructing them.

(4:00) I like that you actually cover all three. So often people only think of the clusivity of the second person and forget about the third person.

One of my early conlangs distinguished between natural and artificial. For example, the distinction between "tree trunk" and "pillar," or "large broad leaf" and "page of a book," was the gender marker. Sex gender was marked in personal pronouns, and could be distinguished in names and other nouns by an clitic, with non-gender describing a category (cat, teacher, cattle), when gender is not specified or not relevant (that hawk, my boss), and occasionally in names as a personal pronoun choice (like "they/them" pronouns in English.)

I hope you would feature Vietnamese pronoun system in your next video. We literally have a ton of them that would often confuse the foreigners and sometime even the natives due to its complexity based on social status and gender. A great example is if someone were to tell me to translate the phrase : "Anh nói em" without any context. Under right conditions, which happens a lot, it can either mean "I told you" or "you told me". This is just one of various other distinct Vietnamese pronouns We also have what we called "True pronouns" which are only used exclusively for friends who had the same age (not age group) as ours or stranger that we do not know how old they are. It is actually quite often that a Vietnamese person would ask you how old are you to address the right pronoun accordingly.

@lethinh9426

3 жыл бұрын

If anyone want more specific information then I can tell you the best I could. Pronoun system is probably the hardest linguistic feature of Vietnamese so I think it would definitely take time and effort for you to understand it let alone getting used to it.I love your videos btw

"Gender also interacts with class," lol.

@ActionAlligator

3 жыл бұрын

@ThisIsMyRealName When was classism ever defined as simply being unable to afford something? I thought it was treating people as less than simply because of their class. Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say or something?

@aluminiumsandworm

3 жыл бұрын

@@ActionAlligator classism is a host of issues including but not limited to this and the things they were talking about as well

@MarkusAldawn

3 жыл бұрын

@@ActionAlligator classism can also be about access. If people in the working class have difficulty accessing healthcare, that is classism.

@remyremington2505

3 жыл бұрын

Man I love how different the internet is now compared to even just 5 years ago

@remyremington2505

3 жыл бұрын

@@ActionAlligator this is similar to the difference between racism and racial prejudice. What you are describing could be an example of classism on the level of an individual interaction. Generally when we discuss classism we are referring to systems of oppression based on class, rather than individuals “being classist”. When trans people are prevented from access to life saving medical treatments, this is a system of classism (as there is a monetary barrier to access which excludes people of a certain class) interacting with a system of sexism (as trans people specifically are hurt by this barrier due to the fact that they are the ones who need these treatments).

Great video. I'm working hard on a how-to homesteading book right now, but as soon as I finish that it's back to writing science fiction novels, and these conlang videos are quite useful.

There is literally nothing I needed more than this right now. Thank you very much.

this is a fantastic video and very clearly explains such somewhat complex aspects of grammar, love it and keep up the great work man!

There's actually a 4th person too. It referrs to any hypothetical person. "ONE can do this"

@Sovairu

3 жыл бұрын

Not exactly. The meaning and usage of a fourth person varies depending on the individual language in question. It could be an indefinite person, it could be a hypothetical person, it could be impersonal, it could be an obviative (distinguishing one third person from a different third person). It just depends on the language, but ultimately, it is still just a different distinction of the third person.

Yessss! Ive been waiting for aaaages!!!!

the video i needed, thanks a lot! great birthday present

@awkwardperson_yt8765

3 жыл бұрын

happy birthday

@PlanetESPYREX

3 жыл бұрын

@@awkwardperson_yt8765 Thanks!

@awkwardperson_yt8765

3 жыл бұрын

@@PlanetESPYREX you're welcome

@Yusuketh443

6 күн бұрын

​@@PlanetESPYREXhappy birthday

Finally getting around to this video and I have to say, you are literally the first person I've heard use the term "grok" outside of discussing Stranger in A Strange Land. Love it.

@Oddn7751

3 жыл бұрын

Hah! He's the *first person* to do that is he

He's back!

@QuarioQuario54321

3 жыл бұрын

Since when has 3 weeks been considered a long time away

@ppenmudera4687

3 жыл бұрын

@@QuarioQuario54321 I think PrinterPaper101 meant the 'proper' videos, not the 'world lang review... thing' he did the past few months

i love the use of "American" to refer to the indigenous people here and not having it be clarified. I know that probably wasn't conscious but Americans have a (bad) tendency to treat indigenous languages as if they used to be around but are not anymore

@nutyyyy

2 жыл бұрын

I suppose there isn't any American language or European languages from America so there's no real need for a distinction. English, Spanish, Portuguese, French etc spoken in America are still the same European languages. Might get more complicated if you had a distinct American language derived from English for the US. But it's always good to have America refer to more than just the country.

@prezentoappr1171

Жыл бұрын

You mean Amerindian?

Great video to watch, even 2 years later… . I’m working on a conlang breaking nearly every rule… 😅😅😅 . It’s 7 seven genders and 7 seven numbers, all marked in nominative and oblique pronouns, plus 1st and 2nd person clusivity, plus definiteness… . And I’m not even kidding! I’m running out of letters in my artscript to convey this or that distinction… Though it may seem impossible at a first thought and chaotic at a first look, I think I’ve managed to bring together a very elegant, logical and clear system. . But, anyway, that’s just a tiny step in conlanging, and I’ll watch your next video on this subject right away! Thanks a lot for your content!

I like using the [u] sound for 2nd person pronouns. We have it in English and Spanish and it’s like the speaker is using their lips to point at who they’re talking to

My personal conlang has different pronouns depending on if you're talking about someone in the present, past or future. The implication is that in the far enough past and future, you are effectively a different person. When talking about past-you, for example, it wouldn't make sense to consider that person the same as current you, but it also wouldn't make sense to consider them a third person. For example, if you want to talk about what you did 15 years ago, you usually wouldn't say "I(present) did a thing" because you're not the same person. You'd say "I(past) did a thing". You can still talk about the past using the present pronouns because, after all, you from, say, 5 minutes ago is still pretty much you. But this lets you more easily talk about people in the further past and future without conflating them with themselves in different times. This can also be used to imply certain things about intent. For example, if you say that someones past self did something wanted something, it's not the same as saying that someones present self wanted something. So much potential for passive-aggresiveness!

@valkeakirahvi

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty neat! Do you also use other strategies to mark tempus?

Fun fact: in the past, “it” was used as a neuter pronoun for people, as opposed to singular “they” which first appeared in writing in 1375.

An idea I'm playing with is a few pronouns that inflect from the singular or dual with plural affixes. The 1st person dual is 1+2 or 1+3, which can pluralize to 1+2, plural and 1+3, plural, but 1+2+3 plural is the plural of the 1st singular. The 3rd has a singular masculine and singular feminine, but a dual masculine and feminine, which can each pluralize for just masculine, just feminine, or mixed groups.

I was literally watching your old conlang video, while I got the notification.

Mandarin has three 3rd person pronouns, 他, 她, and 它. 他 is masculine/neuter, 她 is feminine, and 它 is used for non-humans, kinda like English “it.” But here’s the kicker: all three characters are pronounced “tā.” The distinction among them only exists in writing. As a result, Mandarin-speakers who learn other languages frequently use the wrong pronouns when speaking.

@henrywong2725

3 жыл бұрын

There is also 祂 for deities and 牠 for animals, both are still pronounced as tā

Oh my god, thank you for the proximate/obviate distinction, because I put one of those in a conlang but had no idea what it was called. I drew the later distinctions not by distance, but by relationship to the action of the third person speaker, and I'm not sure if that has a special name. Singular, gender-neutral, uninflected pronouns, 1, 2, 3prox, 3obv1(4), 3obv2(5): Yo, a, ye, yij, yin. "Stam nya hye an yij tsozamn tyin Dreugunzdon ka. (Amnulzhun.)" "He spoke to him while he was at Dragonstone." [Impf.continuant SPEAK topic.3s TO 4s SIMULTANEOUS locative.5s DRAGONSTONE cop. ("All parties identify as male.")] I do most of my conlangs stream-of-consciousness, by speaking in trances and finding patterns and repeating sentences until they flow right, which means I don't usually know the technical terms for how they work, so I'm so happy this has a name (whether or not any natlangs do it).

on the podcast lexicon Vally, Dr. McWhorter mentioned how english is odd with its lack of clear number in pronouns. No 2nd person plural, and with the rise of singular they the language only has a plural 1st person pronoun, if singular they takes over

@TreetopCanopy

3 жыл бұрын

Singular "they" has been in use for centuries, so the oddness is very old

@JoelFeila

3 жыл бұрын

@@TreetopCanopy it is not how long it is how few languages use the same 3rd person pronoun for both singular and plural

I don't know what to call it but because spirits and deities are factual in my world the conlang I've made for it has a a form to address those attributes as well. So when they speak they can distinguish between their physical body that is their current incarnation as well as the animating life force as separate if they really wanted to. And likewise they could speak of the Christian Trinity without being as confused (linguistically at least) since the language promotes thinking in terms that says that there is a Physical being that is inhabited by a Spiritual being which does or doesn't have a Divine essence within it.

I don't think the gender distinction in the first and second persons are rare because the gender is known but rather because it's irrelevant. I think the main goal of gender pronouns is to reduce ambiguity on who we are talking about. If we're talking about Kate and Tom, then "they (sing.)" could be either Kate or Tom, whereas he and she resolves the ambiguity. Regarding first and second person most of the time there's a single person who could be the singular "I" and a single person who could be the singular "you" so there's really nearly no need for disambiguating.

Why did I actually get so excited and giggly when I saw the video was up. Guess I'm a linguist fanatic.

WELCOME BACK BABY!!

5:57 Caribbean Spanish makes a gender distinction for the 1st plural (M= nosotros, F= nosotras) and the third person (M= el, ellos; F= ella, ellas, N= ello) but only in the nominative and dative. Everything else is gender-neutral.

9:16 That's not a prefix (French doesn't use those at all as you're suggesting here), it's just elision, where the final vowel is dropped in front of a word that begins with a vowel. It would be "te" in front of any verb that doesn't start in a vowel, which is just an oblique case for the 2nd person singular pronoun.

@xeuxixiliak8417

3 жыл бұрын

He said clitic, because that's what it is.

Is anyone else getting distracted a lot by the compression artefacts in the background colour of the video?

@Artifexian

3 жыл бұрын

A few people have pointed this out. I'm not getting an artifacts on my end. Are you watching with a slow internet connection? Are you watching in HD/4K?

@slaughterround643

3 жыл бұрын

my internet connection cannot handle anything over 1080p I didn't mean to insult your content or how it was made, since the compression is on youtube's end: my only advice would be to not use very dark colours if you must use solid-colour backgrounds (see Tom Scott's video on why if you must kzread.info/dash/bejne/mm2empuFaMi3gc4.html)

@Ggdivhjkjl

3 жыл бұрын

@@slaughterround643, have you tried reducing the quality of the clip? It works fine on mobile.

@Adhjie

3 жыл бұрын

@@slaughterround643 or just download it with winX deluxe its like me whos opposite torrent streaming instead of download cuz I dont want the trace in my space yeh its hard to find p2p vpn so downloading is a better choice for slow stuff just like spending hours or days on ur fav game download

Do you have a video/plan on making one addressing possessive pronouns?

I’m a bit confused with the we For (1,2) does does that involve plural or singular you? Cause for my native language We have Tada (1,2,3) Kami (1,3) Ta (1,2) However if I am speaking with 2 or more people I have to use tada Which would this belong to?

I had an idea. A species with two heads that think independently. -a separate pronoun person referring to the other head, like a 1.5th person -a separate pronoun number for referring to both heads at once

@boxthememeguy

Жыл бұрын

me from 1 year ago, congrats for giving this beautiful idea

@stegosandrosos1291

Жыл бұрын

​@@boxthememeguylol

@boxthememeguy

9 ай бұрын

its been almost 2 years and this idea is still kinds good

Just a quick question as I have never heard of this before: What is the paucal numbering?

@varana

3 жыл бұрын

Paucal refers to a form used for _a few_ things - more than singular, fewer than plural. Where to draw the lines, depends on the language in question.

What's your source on Barai having a merger of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person pronouns? And Koiari having a 1st / 3rd merger? I can't seem to find that anywhere, and I'm interested in learning more, because it might relate to my research

I don't have much knowledge to contribute here, but I'd just like to extend my thanks to Artifexian and especially all the commenters here that inject so much fascinating linguistic knowledge into my life. It's stupendously nerdy and it affirms my interest in language and culture.

INANIM, ANIM and HUM classes for 1, 2 and 3, four grammatical numbers (none, singular, plural, all) and 7 cases

In Hebrew, we mark both number and gender on *2nd person pronouns*. We have a singular masculine "you" (ata), singular feminine "you" (at), plural masculine "you" (atem) and plural feminine "you" (aten). While the distinguishing between singular masculine and feminine, though needless, isn't really a problem, the distinguishing between plural masculine and feminine only causes problems and arguments over the question - When addressing a mixed group, what pronoun should we use? Masculine or feminine? But thankfully, the feminine plural 2nd person pronoun has been dying out, and in everyday speech, more and more people just use the masculine plural to refer to both males and females (even when they talk only about a plurality of females).

in a natural language that I speak, we have three third person markers for "this he", "that he", and "yonder he" and so for different genders and numbers

Also I’d love to see you look at the og version of Ithkuil. Pure suffering in linguistic form

(5:45) Why does so many dots missing in Europe? There's probably plenty of dots missing elsewhere too. I'm confused over how I'm supposed to read this map.

@ungefiezergreeter6034

3 жыл бұрын

It’s a WALS map. Obviously they aren’t gonna have literally every single language in the survey, so they take a sample, and so places where linguistic diversity is high like Papua New Guinea or the Caucasus have many dots and vice versa.

I love your beret. You make it look good. Thank you for the awesome videos too. :) So, in Japanese, when they say (name)-San or (name)-kun or (name)-chan or (name)-sama, Is that an example of a personal marker in the 3rd person denoting class?

@andrasfogarasi5014

2 жыл бұрын

Those are called honorifics and have nothing to do with pronouns. English also has honorifics, but tends to put them before names. Examples of names decorated with honorifics in English: Mrs. Whyte Dr. Xanders Officer Yang Father Gershom

@heathercampbell6059

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrasfogarasi5014 ah. Ok. Thank you for explaining that. :)

5:25 we kinda have this in some parts of Britain ("you" / "youse" distinction - "you" being singular and "youse" being plural")

@vytah

3 жыл бұрын

That point in the video was not about singular vs plural, it was about two distinct plurals, one referring only to the listeners, one referring to both the listeners and someone else.

@Artifexian

3 жыл бұрын

Right but what I'm referring to on screen is clusivity not a simple singular/plural distinction.

@slaughterround643

3 жыл бұрын

ah. maybe I shouldn't watch videos about stuff I'm not knowledgeable in at 3am

I'm using Navajo as a base and they have 5 suffixes for subject!

@Sovairu

3 жыл бұрын

Well, prefixes, and yes, Navajo has a lot of subject prefixes, depending on person, number, animacy, and discourse relation.

Did you ever make a video going over the other options such as polarity and social status?

Hi artifexian!!! i love your videos, i’m so happy to see you upload again, heh

5:31 Actually in Hebrew we have a second person singular and plural forms: Ata (אתה) for singular and atem (אתם) for plural

Thank you so much for this video. You just gave me an idea to fix a problem with my conlang's pronouns.

I might be wrong, but I think there are some languages that have only dependant person markers and not independant ones. I know there are languages where the independant forms are impractically long and ones where they are not allowed to be used as subjects.

Artifexian:"I recommend avoiding gender distinctions in plural forms" Me: *Laughs in French* Also Artifexian: *Puts "Je t'aime" as an example* Me: *Angry French noises*

@pppppaaaaaccccchhh

2 жыл бұрын

Je te déteste

@prezentoappr1171

Жыл бұрын

@@pppppaaaaaccccchhh je hurle - french meme

Artifexian, I wonder how you would design an alien world with other ways of communicating rather than verbally. I wonder how you would create an alien species that communicated through body language or by pheromones.

one of my heritage languages is one of those rare languages you mention at 6:17 only first and second person singular pronouns mark gender, third person and all plural pronouns don't but I is adx [aⁿdʲ] and you is idx [iⁿdʲ] if you are male, but ũ'kwe [ũʔkwe] and i'kwe [iʔkwe] if you are female

Weird, you mention singular they in the video but you don't include it in the chart at 8:25

Return of the King.

HOLY SHIT HE'S BACK

I believe most Semitic languages (Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic...) not only have gender distinctions in the sing. 2nd person, but also in the pl. 2nd & 3rd. So, I mean, not THAT rare

KZread somehow hasn't given me a notification of this video yet and it's been an hour

just have 3 pronouns (3rd person singular/plural, 2nd person singular, 2nd person plural) and have the two first person pronouns be a modification of your 2nd person pronouns.

I'm not claiming any language do that or anyone should try it in a conlang, but THEORETICALLY, you could go really nuts with "WE" (first person plural). Besides classes and multiple numbers (dual, trial etc.), you could make a series of arrangements of who is we in each person: 1st: a) me and only me; b) me and these guys I represent (like in a team, which would count as 3rd person in English) + 2nd: a) you and only you; b) you all (multiple adressees); c) you, but not you (multiple adressees); d) not you + / or 3rd: a) no other person; b) those other guys; c) everybody As I said: that is just theoretically.

Can I make my own distinctions? Like, not gender, not plural, but time? I've making a conlang where you'd need to change the pronoun depending on the time. This is justified as "there was a time marker, that was always after pronoun, but after time, they murged together, and now it is not a pronoun, but rather person time marker" Would that be ok? Also, I made a singular-dual-plural model, but What If I change the meaning of dual to "groupal", so that you mean that some people, or some items, are in a group? Like, word people used to just indicate crowd, but then became plural form of "person". Are such things realistic?

I really hoped you would explain paucal for example. But now I have to look it up anyway, after hearing it so many times and not knowing what it's supposed to be.

@Artifexian

3 жыл бұрын

It was discussed in previous videos IIRC

@kasane1337

3 жыл бұрын

@@Artifexian Oh, wow, that was a quick answer! Thank you very much, I might have just missed it.

Old English and Old High German had Dual also in first and second person. wit in German and with in English which now means with/mit in English. and git in German and gith in English for you both.

@user-pk9qo1gd6r

9 ай бұрын

"which now means with/mit in English" The preposition "with" is completely unrelated to the 1st person dual pronoun.

You should make a video on how to find the habitable zone of a star

@novvain495

3 жыл бұрын

He alredy did, look for at his oldest videos.

I mean, sex is sometimes self-evident. Not so much for gender though, since that's an internal thing. Therefore, there is absolutely a need for person-marking in the first person, & not in the 2nd or 3rd. You can only KNOW your own gender, & only ASSUME someone elses. Marking gender on the 2nd or 3rd person is very assumptive.

It's correct if I make a fourth person, which is a dead entity? (like for a example a dead person), It's still 3rd person??

@FieldLing639

5 ай бұрын

Would still be third person yes, but a cool category to mark nonetheless. Nivaclé has seperate kinship terms for dead relatives, so something similar for pronouns would be cool

What about possessive person marking in nouns?

@vytah

3 жыл бұрын

I think possessives deserve a video on their own, with how they handle gender, number and case differently than personal pronouns, and how they can be not words, but affixes, or how they can simply not exist as a separate concept and be a genitive-like form constructed from personal pronouns in the same way as from ordinary nouns. Or a mix of all of those.

Great video thanks!

How do dependent suffixes get suffixed though? I know it'd make sense for the pronoun to glue to end of the verb if it was in an VS order, like what happened in spanish "soy" and "estoy", but isn't the VS order quite uncommon? How could it end up being the main way of inflecting verbs in Latin and Proto-germanic (and I think in PIE too)? Also, do dependents always come from the independent pronouns?

@novvain495

3 жыл бұрын

Just make up some suffixes if you want it Latin or PGermanic or PIE style

@Adhjie

3 жыл бұрын

ku-Verb Verb-object-mu and then usually object possesive Verb-nya the latter sounds more like a marker

And my conlang, Eoanet, take culsivity even further. It's the more usual Incl/Excl clusivity, so you might look like 1A+2A, 1A+2A+3A , 1B+3B, but the everyone we is 1AB+2AB+3AB. Makes sesne because 1+2+3 is really combination of the inclusive and exclusive.

1:01 where are the demonstratives derived from?

@the_linguist_ll

Жыл бұрын

They can come from determiners, locative markers, verbs of existence (to-be) as is the case with Hoocąk, relative pronouns, or third person pronouns. We know relatively little on common trends of their origin, and we're only just starting to piece it together.

Ur back :DDD

How do dependant markers evolve in natural languages? Do these pronoun suffixes simply appear ex nihilo or do they come from an underlying historical VSO word where the subject later becomes agglutinated to the verb?

@vytah

3 жыл бұрын

And related question: why they diverge so much even within one language. Hungarian has both -m and -k for "I", -l, -d and -sz for singular "you", -uk and -unk for "we" etc.

@novvain495

3 жыл бұрын

My guess would be from historical VSO order, but if you're making your own proto you could just add some person suffixes and not bother with origins.

this comment isn't about this video. So.. i was watching your videos about planet building, and i'm trying to do terrestrial planets and i don't understand the equations, can you do new videos explaining the equations to planet maker?

Fun fact: in certain languages that have pronouns *and* suffixes/prefixes, you often miss out several pronouns in a sentence. Polish is an example, since you can usually tell by the form of a verb if it's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd person, and if it's plural or not, even gender is usually indicated, though not always. If you want to emphasize who you're talking about, then including pronouns is a useful way to do that ("a jak ty się nazywasz?" - "and what are *you* called?") There are exceptions to this. For certain verbs, we'll use the reflexive pronoun się, which is the same no matter who it's referring to. The 3rd person on/ona (oni/one for plurals) *can* be included in a sentence and sound fine, but it isn't necessary. *Possessive* pronouns like "moje", "twoje", and "jego/jej" are included a lot more often because there's no way to indicate possession with the form of the noun. There's also "to", which means "it", although it can also mean "this", as in "this is [...]" or "look at this" (*not* as in "this person" or "this thing"). Aside from those exceptions, though, using too many pronouns in Polish is kind of like not using any contractions in English - you either come off as too formal, or as someone who's only just starting to learn the language.

@amjan

2 жыл бұрын

You missed the neuter for singular. "To" doesn't really mean "it". Look: The pronouns are: --- on, ona, ono (he, she, it). And the demonstratives are: --- ten, ta, to (this, this, this - masc./fem./neut.) In Polish, the pronouns - as opposed to English - are NOT personal, since all nouns have gender. So a car is a "he", unlike in English. But because we use the 3rd person pronoun "ono" predominantly for people and animals, then as the third person pronoun for things we instead use the demonstrative "to".

Alright so, this is driving me insane. I swear there was a follow up video where Edgar mentioned the 4th person and couple of other things that I cannot remember off of the top of my head. But I, for the love of God, cannot find it anywhere on his channel or anywhere else. I don't know if this is some weird Mandella Effect but it is driving me insane. Somebody please answer, I need to know if I am going crazy.

@LangThoughts

3 жыл бұрын

There were some inaccuracies in how he explained 3P pronouns for non-binary people, basically taking a Eurocentric view that such pronouns had to be the result of a cultural shift to recognize non-binary people, while they are some Native American languages and cultures that have historically recognized non-binary people and had it encoded in the language for a long time. Also, he took a pretty narrow view of what non-binary means, since anthropologically, the current system among liberal westerners is not the only way to have non-binary distinctions.

Spanish isn’t actually pro-drop, but null-subject. Pro-drop languages drop pronouns in all environments, Romance languages only drop pronouns when that pronoun is the subject, with clitics being largely required. A better example of a pro-drop language would be Japanese (which may not even have pronouns at all, depending on who you ask). Japanese (and a number of pro-drop languages) also doesn’t have person marking on verbs, either relying on context or actively stating the noun in question (generally, someone’s name).

@pixelpix1728

3 жыл бұрын

You're not reeeally wrong but definitions of pro-drop and null-subject a little off though :P Pro-drop languages are those which allows certain classes of pronouns to be dropped when they're explicit by grammar (like verb conjugations) or context, like how in portuguese you can say "gostei" (lit. "(I) liked (it)") ommiting both subject and object pronouns Null-subject is when you can omit the subject, as in "I see you" being translated to "te veo" in spanish, ommiting the subject (Yo) A null-subject language is when you can ommit subjects, a pro-drop language is when you can drop certain pronouns, making every null-subject language also a pro-drop language (but not all pro-drop are null-subject) :P

Does anybody knows why did the second video disappeared?

@jannovotny4797

3 жыл бұрын

I don't know, but I would like to know too!

@LangThoughts

3 жыл бұрын

​@@jannovotny4797 There were some inaccuracies in how he explained 3P pronouns for non-binary people, basically taking a Eurocentric view that such pronouns had to be the result of a cultural shift to recognize non-binary people, while they are some Native American languages and cultures that have historically recognized non-binary people and had it encoded in the language for a long time. Also, he took a pretty narrow view of what non-binary means, since anthropologically, the current system among liberal westerners is not the only way to have non-binary distinctions.

@augusto_tron

3 жыл бұрын

@@LangThoughts Do you know which native american cultures did? It would be interesting to read on that and my knowledge about precolombian cultures is not enough to even start the research by myself.

7:21 imma steal that

Is it possible to have independent prox-obv pronouns? If so, could possessive pronouns be unmarked for obviation? Can a language have prox-obv on top of a gender distinction?

Typology ??I Love it

been waiting foreverr!!!!!

My language has singular,dual,plural system.....and also 3 type of pronouns which is formal, informal and the standard version...

4:08 Titel of Russian Tsars starts from "We, Nikolai II..."

I'm thinking to create a pronoun system like this 1, 2, 3, 1+2, 1+3, 2+3, 1+2+3 with each case having singular dual and plural so that makes it into 21 pronouns haven't thought much about if it will have cases like genetive and nominative but idk if that's practical to have

Is there a language that has both Singular, Dual, Paucal, Plural, & Collective pluralities?

@the_linguist_ll

2 жыл бұрын

Lihir has all of that minus collective.

@rosenberry9150

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_linguist_ll thx