I'm AWARE I'm saying HDHD instead of ADHD in this video, haha. English isn't my first language so sometimes you just doesn't get it right haha

@nodwin951

11 ай бұрын

don't worry i wish i could speak in english like you!! so good so articulate with a beautiful accent =) i'm late in the comment but it seems fair to say it anyway

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

@@nodwin951 oh thank you! :')

The personality shift for Robin’s character was an immediate annoyance for me. I remember being confused of if she’d always been that goofy, so it’s good to know that it wasn’t just me. And it really doesn’t help the Duffer’s case given that both she and Will (imo) were neglected and written horribly after their initial introductions.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Yeah they are really fucking over the gays in this show haha. I'm scared what the last season will bring

I found really weird how different Robin's character felt from S3 to S4 and you've put my discomfort with it into words. Other neurodivergent fans might feel different but speaking as an autistic person who has ADHD, I wouldn't mind her being coded in that way as long as she kept her original role, because it feels like it got diminished into comic relief in favour of other characters' spotlight. It's also problematic the neurodivergent coded character only role in the story being the comic relief/sidekick to the neurotypical ones. As for the romance, it does feel really shallow. Vicky is barely a character.

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment, you put it very well into words. 100% agree.

@thischannelisdead9

8 ай бұрын

I agree!! I'm autistic and it doesn't sit right with me when characters are changed to be portrayed as annoying to other characters. If she was shown to annoy the other characters from the start and it was handled well as to show the lack of acceptance and knowledge of neurodivergence, I would love that!! But changing her whole entire personality on a whim feels less like showing people getting annoyed at neurodivergent traits and more like Robin adopting those traits for no actual reason then everyone who made the show going "lol, so dumb".

I feel like the whole falling in love with someone you never talked to is a really common thing for gay side characters. Its the easiest way to have a gay relationship worked in your stories with as little effort as possible

@obviouslyqueer

11 ай бұрын

Yeah 100%! Happy ending without any effort!

@raan2115

10 ай бұрын

@@obviouslyqueer I think a perfect example of this is Fabiola from Never have I ever... they did not do this one time with her, but two and it was the exact same story both times, it was a bit hilarious

you perfectly explained why i always thought rockie was sooo boring. when i watched season4, robin’s personality change didn’t bother me because i was so excited to see a good queer love story in ST, but then Vickie had a boyfriend and i was like…. lol wtf. i know some fans like the parallels between rockie and byler, but i think it just shows that the writers lack creativity and care when it comes to queer relationships. idk what they will do with Robin in season5, but i think rockie will stay just as uninteresting lol. although i do think it would be cool for Robin and Will to interact maybe

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I would LOVE for Robin and Will to interact! Would love for Will to interact with anyone that isn't Mike and for that interaction to be anything but sad pining haha. I for example think Eddie would have loved Will... But especially Robin and Will would be great to see! Show some lesbian gay solidarity 🙏

@coolaboutnothing

7 ай бұрын

@Ks-101 it doesn’t change the fact that their storyline was boring ?? ronance (nancy and robin) had a way more interesting dynamic and weren’t canonically romantically involved at all ?? they just got lazy with rovickie

SUCH a good video essay!!!! i never knew about the change in robin mid-season 3's filming :O i was especially fascinated by the parts about having to make sure robin wasn't threatening, either to steve or the heterosexual viewers (her not being allowed to be cooler anymore, her not being allowed to be more successful with women than him, her not being allowed to be with the popular singer, etc.). thanks for making this vid and sharing it w/ us! your work is excellent and i always learn from it.

@xilj4002

Жыл бұрын

You didn't know because it's not true they changed it while filming. They were going to write a love interest, but they decided to misdirect tropes instead. Then they talked to the actors before filming, where Maya and Joe supported the lesbian twist that was brought up tentatively.

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!! 🙏✨

i wonder if the writers know that Robin Buckley/Nancy Wheeler is in the top 15 ships this year on AO3. mainly because queer people loved Robin, and even though Robin and Vickie were cute, they had nothing else going on for them. an itch that needed to be scratched. no one's invested in a relationship that was written by people who didn't care for it either when writing it. people ship her with Nancy instead because queer audiences want well written characters in queer relationships. Nancy's a great character, and her development throughout the show never got damaged by her heterosexuality, unlike Robin's orientation did for hers. even if Robin and Nancy didn't have chemistry, i'm sure people still would've shipped them more than with Vickie.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

People would have loved Nancy/Robin, me included. That would have been so fun and refreshing to see.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

People would have loved Nancy/Robin, me included. That would have been so fun and refreshing to see.

I noticed the personality shift right away from 3 to 4. Even her coming out scene, she was still cool and articulate. Then in S4 she became just the opposite. She could have come out as Bi-Sexual as well. She did say "It shocked me to my core that I Like you, I really like you."

@Robinlover1234

10 ай бұрын

Yeah she likes Steve as a FRIEND. She’s a lesbian, period.

@Robinlover1234

10 ай бұрын

She just became more comfortable around Steve, that’s why her “personality changed”

@koiloylo

10 ай бұрын

@@Robinlover1234no she is literally a completely different character

@Robinlover1234

10 ай бұрын

@@koiloylo yeah, maybe she’s unmasking?

@koiloylo

8 ай бұрын

@@Robinlover1234 thats a good headcanon explaination, but in the canon i do think its just bad writing changing her character to fit whatever the plot needs

I think the character change is because of 2 things first bc of unmasking, but that was mentioned before in the comments and second because before Robin became friends with Steve and the rest she basically didn't have friends. She was friends with Barb before Barb and Nancy were friends (this is canon through the Rebel Robin book and podcast) and as far as I know she didn't have any other friends in between that and becoming friends wit Steve. So before she was just in defense mode so that nobody would be able to attack her. Now suddenly having friends she can be more herself

@noa7152

10 ай бұрын

I don't wanna say that this makes her good queer rep or that stranger things is good written, I just wanna say that the "change" of her personality is reasonable

@lilaboxx

10 ай бұрын

I agree, I think that part of her personality change makes sense but I still think they shouldn't have thrown as much of her brain out of the window

I disagree. First of all robin is very clearly meant to be nuerodivergent. The personality change(at least in my opinion) is meant to repersent her becoming more comfortable around people and unmasking. She is still intelligent and all the things she was before but now she isn't masking her nuerodivergent traits. I don't think that makes her a bad character.

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

That's valid! Thanks for your comment! In my opinion what makes a "good" or "bad" character - especially, but not only, when discussing representation - is if the character feels worked through, if the characterization are well though out and if they get the same kind of treatment as the other characters. With Robin I feel it's a no for all of those things. But I know that rep was meaningful to a lot of people! So that's great, I just think it felt like a last minute decision and that impacted the overall feel of it

@Chanelle208

10 ай бұрын

Except that there's no proof that she's coded as nuerodivergent in season 3. I have no problem with there being neurodivergent characters (I have autism myself) but she went from having no signs to having all the signs in season 4.

@thischannelisdead9

8 ай бұрын

@@Chanelle208 As a fellow autistic person, I agree with you. If they'd maybe hinted at some traits, or shown Robin slowly unmasking over the course of working with Steve, then I'd agree that Robin's change was natural. But given that Robin's queer identity was an afterthought, it wouldn't shock me at all if her neurodivergence was treated the same (if she was nd-coded at all, that is, since I honestly don't think that was the case). If people headcanon her that way (I do too), I have no problem and I think it's a fun fandom explanation for those who think she would be! But we can't ignore that the writers (and possibly even Maya) were at least slightly ignorant while writing about Robin.

@varianmidoriya1194

3 ай бұрын

That’s what I saw too! Yet I agree it is a bit of a stretch…

@elizabethclairewolfrosenda3391

3 ай бұрын

​@@Chanelle208 I'm not sure I entirely agree with the assessment that they hadn't at least *hinted* at the possibility of her neurodivergence in S3. Just perhaps not entirely accurately or with as much research into other traits that make it more apparent in S4. But I immediately picked up on its likelihood in S3. First with her pre-existing multilingualism & her ability to analyse the sounds on the recording to the corresponding cyrillic letters as pretty suggestive indicators of hyper-focus & heightened pattern recognition. Then with Steve's mention of her having been in drama club correlating fairly appropriately with how differently girls on the spectrum learn & present their masking in neurodivergent boys (i.e. we practiced or "rehearsed" the behaviours of our neurotypical peers, which made theatre as an extracurricular - where our tendancy to do that was seen as an asset - pretty naturally & comfortably suited for many of us in school)... The confirmation for me was when she talked in the Russian base about having shared Mrs Click's class with Tammy Thompson & Steve, both of whom were the grade ahead of her. Because in the 80s many Drs were still by & large only diagnosing autism in girls if it was *very* pronounced and/or bordering on non-verbal (seriously, when the question was first raised in relation to my social interaction difficulties when I was 6 years old & still hadn't leaned to mask the exact words were "If it weren't for the fact that she had no speech delays I'd almost think she might be autistic & she's a *girl* so she can't have Asperger" [yeah, they really did think only boys could be Aspies back then]); those of us elsewhere on the spectrum were selectively labeled G&T, but schools as small as Hawkins (or my own IRL) didn't actually *have* G&T programs or AP courses yet so for certain classes we were placed with the grade above us & any awkwardness interacting with our classmates was subsequently chalked up to "inadequate socialization with our own age group". Because, however, no matter how well we taught ourselves, we couldn't quite mask *all the time* & *did* have social awkwardness with our school peers, we still ended up being labelled ambiguously - as Steve comments to Dustin - "weird". Basically, as a hyperlexic autistic girl who grew up in the 80s myself, there was enough that was recognizable of my own experience even in S3 that I clocked it at the time as at least *somewhat* implied. Even if it was a bit vague due to the "class placement with the grade above" detail being possibly *overly* era-specific. Honestly I didn't mind it being vague in S3 because I was fine with her neurodivergence not *defining* her character. The thing I felt left her neurodivergence only "hinted at" in S3 rather than blatant was that in her introductory season they only really presented facets of neurodivergence that can be positively viewed as "pros", without acknowledging any of the impediments we Neurodivergents can face. Season 4 followed that up with *also* introducing a couple of those more recognised impediments as well, such as difficulty with social cues & delayed walking. Like @LK-my3wq I interpreted that - or at least gave the benefit of the doubt - to be her becoming *more* comfortable unmasking. Did they convey that transition flawlessly? Obviously not. I certainly wouldn't have minded them balancing S4's acknowledgement of areas in which autistics can struggle with better retaining S3's presentation of areas in which autistics - autistic women in particular - can excel. But overall, I actually found her neurodivergence to be *less* of an afterthought than her lesbianism, even if it wasn't ideally executed (which I'll admit wasn't). And in the long run, whether or not she was good neurodivergent represention isn't the same conversation as whether she was good queer representation. That is all, however, just my own personal opinion. ~shrug~

I don't think representation of disability needs to be "cool" to be good representation. If people with neurodivergence see their experience in a character, then it's good representation. Sometimes, disability isn't cool. People living with disability like to see that they can be a main character in a story, have friends, and be worthy of love without having some kind of special disability superpower. Rain Man is bad representation because it shows that people with neurodivergence are worthy of love if they have super powered mathematic abilities. Quest for Camelot is bad representation because it shows that people with blindness are worthy of love if their sense of echolocation is so adept that they're, in practice, not blind. Robin is good representation because she's just neurodivergent and there, and people identify with her.

@eleanorf443

11 ай бұрын

Personally (coming from a neurodivergent person) I found Robin to be "bad representation" still, despite totally seeing my experiences in how she was written in season 4. However relatable she was, it felt entirely inauthentic given how little it matched her character from the previous season. It was insulting not because of her no longer being "cool", but because I'd rather be allowed to see characters appear genuinely neurodivergent, rather than suddenly be given a strange facade of neurodivergent traits when the writers decide to completely turn them into comic relief. (not to say that characters can't appear neurodivergent AND be comedic - many of my favourite characters are!)

@cookiecat7759

4 ай бұрын

def agree@@eleanorf443

Dudeee, the personality change thing is such a GOOD point! They could've added things to her personality and storyline, not subtracted. The crush part bummed me out so much, even more so since they teased such a popular actress (Amybeth Mcnulty - from Anne with an E) in it and ended up giving her almost no relevant screen time 😒

the duffers have such an issue with any personality type that doesnt fit the exact nerdom they identified with as kids growing up and it shows, because literally every character who doesnt subscribe to that gets punished, whether it be being killed off or getting an entirely personality transplant (they gave robin the steve treatment and its so tragic)

oooh excited for this!!!! i definitely have felt a lack of satisfaction with how the show depicts her queer identity... like whenever it comes up, it feels like the writers/showrunners are trying to "get it over with" as quick as possible. even robin not using the word "lesbian" -- i know no one has to identify any particular way, but it feels like a conscious choice, since robin's not the one making that decision, the writers are -- like there's a sense they think the word itself is "too much" or "inappropriate" or something. anyway -- very excited to hear your thoughts and analysis :)

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the excitement! I'll talk a bit about the rushed aspect, or as I call it - the lack of screentime and effort. The whole "lesbian" discourse is really interesting! I know a lot of lesbians are reacting to everyone saying sapphic or gay instead, and that's really valid. I do not talk about that aspect regarding Robin, but I agree that she not saying it absolutely could be because it's "too much". As you will see in the video my main problem with Robins representation is that I feel it's very adjusted to the comfort levels of heterosexuals. And your idea about them avoiding the word lesbian absolutely fits into that.

@foxymoon7860

Жыл бұрын

@@obviouslyqueer I am excited to hear your opinion. I think it is kind of weird that the show refuses to use the word 'lesbian' or 'gay'. The only time the word 'gay' was used was in S1 while the characters mock Will Byers's perceived sexuality. There were also explicit usage of homophobic words. So it rather comes off as weird that words like 'gay' or other slurs can be openly used but the characters themselves cannot say the words 'lesbian' or 'gay'. S4 was also pretty underwhelming in terms of queer portrayal. Robin's love interest (Vickie) only has a 2-3 minute screentime at most, and she's spent most of her screentime kissing her (ex)boyfriend. She's also given almost next to no personality or screentime, and her interactions with Robin were minimum and pales in comparison to how the heterosexual romances are dealt with. Now, ofc, there is Season 5 and the writers can give them more screentime, however, this season could also have portrayed that, the season was way too long already with many filler or unnecessarily dragged moments on the show. I have so much to say about how the queer characters and their queerness are written on the show, lol, so sorry if this answer comes of as way too long. Would you also consider making a video about Will Byers or Vickie, if you are interested?

@asterismos5451

Жыл бұрын

It is one of my favourite things in heartstopper that the lesbians always call themselves lesbians and the bisexuals always call themselves bisexual (instead of shortening it to bi to sanitize it). Ofc you can call yourself what you like but we shouldn't write other people's identities to use different words to seem sanitized when there's nothing inappropriate with the identity in the first place.

I feel that’s more a matter of Stranger Things oversimplifying its characters’ personalities because the cast is too crowded. There are way too many characters, they refuse to get rid of most of them and add more every season. Jonathan, Will, Robin and others weren’t really necessary for the main plot of season four, but the writers kept them there. Will’s character on season four can be defined as “gay and sad”. He’s sad all the time and he has a crush on Mike, that’s all (this has even become a meme in Brazil because a streamer made the same critics). Robin is quirky and a lesbian. Jonathan is Nancy’s boyfriend, he doesn’t have a compelling storyline outside his relationship with Nancy since season one. We are heading to season five, the final season, and half of the characters should’ve been gone by now, they aren’t really doing anything. The way Will’s sexuality has been handled particularly bothers me because the writers refuse to make it explicit on the show. So the get kudos for being inclusive but they don’t get the backlash from homophobes. I’ve seen so many people thinking that Will is actually in love with Eleven because they simply can’t remember that gay people exist and the show won’t remind them. I feel that I’m watching the ending of Destiel right in front of me, but now they’re in the 80s and Castiel has a bad haircut. I wouldn’t be surprise if Will confesses that he’s in love with Mike and then gets sent to turbo upside down during season five final episodes.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Hahah agree on everything you say. I'm so sick of these kind of enormous ensamble casts, it never gets any good cause you can't tell a proper story when 15 people with different storylines are going into a one hour episode. I would put it past the creators to do a Destiel send off hahaha, we'll see. I'm scared and excited for the shitshow

@varianmidoriya1194

3 ай бұрын

Would it be worse if they pulled a Destiel move and it was heroic or if Will never got with Mike but some random person? I don’t know why I feel like with what they did to Robin. It will be either of these two options for it as his fate- no in between.

8:48 to be fair they did a real shit job at writing the Mileven “love story” seeing as they’re only together based off circumstances

I also fully believe that Robin was originally meant to be Steve's love interest and was intended to be 'competition' to Nancy. That obviously didn't happen, hence why almost Nancy broke up with Jonathan in season 4 (which I also found weird but it makes sense, since Steve was left single and he's a fan favourite.) They set this up in order for her to get back with Steve in season 5. I think they changed Robin's character in season 4 because she would've been too similar to Nancy and they dumbed her down in order to make Nancy seem more 'smart' especially the scene where they have to sneak into the psych ward,

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Yeah 100% agree. They needed to make her less of a "threat" when she wasn't the love interest anymore.

I think Robin still has the same personality and we just see the other side of her. The only thing that bothers me is that the writers kinda forgot that she was really smart.

1:24 I feel like it’s quite realistic though. When you first come out, you’re finally allowed to be yourself. So “cool” Robin was likely a front and season 4 Robin was the real Robin.

i actually understand why they switched up her personality, i relate to her a lot as someone with autism and i think that was their decision with that. also it would make sense if because she was mean to steve at the beginning that could just be her way to avoid men getting feelings for her, and also how she’s a closed off person until the friendship gets closer. i understand the rockie hate, i just love amybeth mcnulty so much and that’s the only reason i ship it sm 💪i think their relationship was lazy. also, nancy is the only character that finds robin annoying. which was pushed to show nancy’s fear of robin and steve being together and also is just something nancy would feel because of her upbringing she didn’t just show up suddenly as an annoying character, keith explicitly states that steve used to bully “kids like them” and it’s stated she’s an unpopular band kid loser in s3 multiple times

And the MALE GAZE when it comes to this character is such a trigger!! First of all, the fact that Steve has to APPROVE of her being a lesbian is disgusting. Her coming out scene is much more about showing how cool Steve is than showing anything really about Robin. And the fact that after that, Steve is present EVERY TIME she sees Vicky, that's, again, disgusting, how he has to like support her, approve of her being a lesbian and also approve her crush, wtf, if they're lesbians, why is there a man right there every single time they meet, even if he's Vicky's friend tbh. She could have been more sure of herself, more independent, even if she, of course, talks to her male friend about being a lesbian and her crush, and she could have met Vicky without this man being right there next to her and having to push her. Yes, she might still be accepting herself and it's cool her friend's supportive, but this is a TV show and with Steve always being there and having to kind of approve her crushes, it's reinforcing the patriarchy and also Robin is indeed a shallow character, the writers didn't put any effort into her and clearly no lesbian ever gave her opinion in what was happening with the Steve-Robin relationship and Robin's crushes. Just, I find this character's scenes in regards to her being a lesbian so so bad.

Very interesting and I don't disagree except Maya said by the time she got there Robin wasn't seriously meant as a love interest, and she only agreed that she should be a lesbian and never pitched it herself, that was a misunderstanding of some comments taken out of context. Edit: Also I'd consider Russian military capturing and torturing someone right before being thrown into a supernatural battle with a huge meat monster is trauma enough to bring out the more anxious traits of someone, or to make an inherently ND character drop the mask (Also autistic is not a slur, identity first language is preferred anyway. You don't have to stumble around with "on the spectrum coded", I'd rather you called me an actual slur tbh)

@truthseeker9249

Жыл бұрын

Yes yes and yes. I can't believe they are actually trying to do away with the word Autistic as if it's an insult and not just a basic description. And I am also Autistic myself. Today's generation is weak indeed.

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your thoughts! I don't think autistic is a slur either, or should be treated as such, so appreciate you highlighting that!

Stranger Things having bad writing? Perish the thought 😂

thank you so much for your input on this!! i had noticed these things about her, but couldn't place a finger on it. you did! while i think much of what you said is true, i honestly think that most of the issues with her "character change" and lack of screentime simply fell victim to the common story telling flaw big series often develop over time: too many characters. The first season was so magical because there were so many diverse and interesting characters, and they all made sense. they all had space to develop and grow, and we as viewers had time to get to know them. i think a big part of what happened to robin comes together from a combination of different things: 1. she wasn't in the "main cast", as she was only introduced in season 3, 2. there were even more new characters and settings introduced that needed time to get fleshed out and developed, and 3. all of the things you mentioned in the video. So by default, she becomes "less interesting" because she doesn't really stand out in that way, which in turn shifts the writers' focus away from her. but since Robin was still a fan favorite, they felt a need to make her prominant in some way; they just miserably failed. Since there were more "serious" roles than comic relief, they decided to give her a bit more of the "funny" characteristics to keep the show balanced. But for me, a lot of this can actually be applied to most of the characters. I wasn't really happy with any of the characters in season 4, simply because everyone had been stripped down to a face, a name, and a few shallow character traits. This goes for Robin, but really anyone after the third season. I'm not saying the screenwriters are justified for the bad lesbian rep, i just don't think it's necessarily only about that, because I think a lot of interesting and compelling characters lost essential parts of themselves after the start of the fourth season. Robin is no different in this situation.

"You can be starved and still reject trash" That's how I feel about The First Kill, to be honest. Also, I agree with most of your criticism but at the same time, the way you described Robin in season 4 is also the way a lot of neurodivergent people are described. Like, maybe I have thin skin, but as a person with ADHD, I was also "that girl that talks too much", and "the annoying one". Is it that you specifically dislike that Robin is like that, or maybe these traits are just not appealing to you? Like, I dunno, the way you spoke about it just made me a bit sad. Robin is, of course, made up, she's just a character, but there are people like "her in season 4", you know? And you very specifically said how horrible it is that they made her that way.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

I don't think her personality type is the issue. Its not common in media but like recently portrayed Nimona in well... Nimona, Jesper Fahey in Shadow and Bone and Alex in RWRB (even though I hated the acting) are some examples of ADHD being portrayed well and thoughtfully. Robin was not such an example. Its not about her talking to much that makes her annoying it's the way she's doing it that lacks intention. Its so clear (for me) that the writers did not know what to do with her, and that's just annoying. But I hear you! that's not the point I was trying to make. Thanks for your comment!

I'm not the only comment talking this, but I agree and see your point and still have another understanding of Robin's personality. Personality wise: you can very well be perceived as cool and wow people with your talents and then start to annoy them a little as soon as you get comfortable with them, as an Autistic woman this had happen to me and this showcase of Robin is my reality: I was told that before they really know me I was so cool for people bc i looked mysterious and talented, but as soon as I get comfortable I'm anxious, talkative, uncomfortable and etc. It would tie everything together IF they went deeply on the representation, but i doubt. The romance i agree completely, it was really a case of just putting it there. Good video overall!

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Thank you! And thanks for your thoughts! As you say many people highlight this perspective, and I hear you! I just don't think I read her as comfortable in many of these situations? Like she barely knows Nancy, Nancy outright doesn't like her in the beginning, she's forced to wear clothes she doesn't like in environments she hasn't chosen nor like. So I just think it's not... thought about at all from the creators. But, as said, many see it like her relaxing and I buy that in some aspects. Thank you for your perspective as an autistic woman, appreciate it!

@moonieverso

10 ай бұрын

@@obviouslyqueer comfortable is not the right word... is just spending time with me? Especially if I'm doing something, autistic ppl don't even need to feel okay with you and they will still give you weird energy if you need to spend time with us. But absolutely, I don't see it as the show runners wanting for representation, and if it was they would still have to tight some screws to be a good one. When you said that it looks more like she not being a desirable straight character for the writers I totally see it, I was just a bit surprised that people found her so annoying, it didn't covey like that for me but again, I'm autistic and I don't usually interpret well when I'm being the annoying one. It would be more natural if she was more neutral towards Nancy but I see it as "this person is important for my bff so she's important to be as well even if she's not warmed up to me yet" been there done that 😬 As I said, thank you for the video, this type of criticism is important and sparks good conversation on whether or not this or that is good representation.

I noticed the switch up although I admit I didn’t think critically about it. It’s as if they have a “tested” script for queer representation that they consciously or subconsciously won’t deviate from

The reason why her personality changed is because she “friend zoned” and felt more comfortable around Steve. In season 3 they were more of co worker friends. In season 4 they are best friends. But that’s just my opinion

SO GLAD SOMEONE IS FINALLY TALKING ABOUT THIS!!!! when season 4 came out i felt like i was going crazy as no one i talked to seemed to have noticed the personality shift. it felt so odd to see robin have her "useless lesbian" arc (ugh i hate the language around that trope) just to have her fit a comfortable niche of comic relief. its not that i needed her to be the perfect, most capable human being on the planet- i myself love a girlfailure now and then- but yeah it was the fact that it was such a hard pivot away from her portrayal in season 3 that bothered me. the flanderization of it all

@obviouslyqueer

29 күн бұрын

Thank you! I'm glad this resonated with you! 🙏💕

This was an interesting take! I did not notice Robin's personality change actually, it was just too long between seasons for me to remember. I was thinking that I don't remember her speaking in her hyper, non stop way in S3 at all. I remembered that she was distant in S3 but I think her becoming more open made sense. Like some of the commenters, I thought Robin's 'cool' personality in S3 was due to her being closed off and not having friends, but in S4, she has Steve, so she no longer needed this 'cool' mask. I agree that she was definitely a comic relief character in S4. But I thought she was a little too 'cool' and perfect in S3. Do that many people find Robin annoying? In S4 I think it was mostly Nancy's character who found her annoying. The way Robin recognized Nancy's annoyance with her might be due to her close relationship with Steve was an example of her being as smart and perceptive as she was in the previous season. Robin's love story is barely even a story. I feel like it just gave her something to do and to give her and Steve something to talk about to cement their friendship. They might do something with it in S5, but I feel like they don't have enough time in the narrative. Honestly, I mostly just care about how they handle Will.

I like the relaxed style btw and the checking before canceling edit choice was hilarious 😂

@obviouslyqueer

Жыл бұрын

Hahah thank you!

Obsessed with all your videos. You’re so smart and your takes are so underrated. Glad I found you early on so I can annoying and say I was with you from the beginning when you eventually have a million followers

@obviouslyqueer

11 ай бұрын

Oh thank you so much! This made me very happy to read!

On first impression, I also felt like Robin’s representation wouldn’t have changed anything if it was removed. whereas Ellie in The Last of Us has her queerness as pretty central to her character and story.

@riley9698

6 ай бұрын

Also agree the coming out scene was great :)

If they make Byler canon all will be forgiven for me cause that love story is amazing

honestly i clicked on this video ready to fully disagree with it, however you've completely opened my eyes to this issue. i definitely noticed and hated that they had changed her character so much in season 4 (and disliked the lazy shoehorned romance) but i hadn't realised the link it had with her as queer representation. you are so right that they decided to make her "annoying" and less "cool" and definitely undermined her intelligence once they decided she was a lesbian and no longer a viable love interest to steve. it's really gross of the writers. also, it would have been amazing to see them have the neurodivergent traits WITH her "cool persona" from the third season, as the limited representation of neurodivergency is almost always the complete opposite of that. to end, i just wanna say this is a great video and thanks for helping me realise this issue lol

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

At season 3 Robin seemed to me to be writen as a type of pixie dream trope and written mainly as a prize to Steve to get at the end. Her coming out, although positively surprising, was also based on nothing from the start. It was so clear to me, since s3 aired, that they did not care to write good representation (I mean we all know how they've been treating Will since s1) or even a good character at all. The best part of her was actually in function of Steve's storyline, because he had to "earn" her respect as you said. Anyway, you gave me even more reasons to judge the writers/creators and to be upset with this show. I really rather not be under the table, fuck their crumbs and scraps.

100% agree with u. thank you for saying it.

as a bisexual inclined to dating women i felt so seen with robin’s character and specially her personality, then i watched season four and that just vanished for the reasons you listed here. also, i’m a big hater of the whole vicky storyline lmao, if you could even call it that

What i didnt really like apart from Robins whole personality change. Yeah it could be argued shes finally became comfortable amongst others but it wasn't done neatly it was a straight smack in the face, who is this girl ?? Kinda thing. It was her interest in befrending Nancy, season 3 Robin wouldn't care for anyones validation, but she was seeking out a friendship with Nancy even when Nancy was being rude to her. And secondly, her coming out scene, it seemed like more justification for Steves development as in "its the 80s" but i still accept my lesbian bestfriend. Instead of a scene just being about Robin coming out :/:/

I was about to disagree with you (I loved Robin and her being a lesbian) but I realized you were right. I didn't realize how much they actually changed her appearance and personality from S3 to S4. I think people (including me) watched the seasons immediately after they came out and so had forgotten her actual personality by the time S4 came out. If I binged watched the series from S1 to S4 then I think the change would be much more evident and jarring. In S4 they wrote her as a female copy of Steve, I would have much preferred her actual character to be a cooler contrast to Steve.

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Right! Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your comment!

Interesting. I've never thought abt her personality changes from S3 to S4. When i think about it, i maybe thought that her in S3 was a little but put on personality. You know like we only got to know her and maube S4 is really her. I think she also could definitely be on the ADHD spectrum. I ahree abount the screen time and the gay side character thing. I mean we know nothing about Vicky, she isn't even part of the Story. It's totally uninteresting bc we're not invested. I mean I personally don't think we can even call this a couple or whatever. Same as the whole Will is gay thing and Byler thing. I feel they want Brownie points for having gay characters(one confirmed) bc Will was not clear enough for me. That's my main problem. Like you said, no physical affection, barely any Story.

faz um vídeo sobre wenclair de Wednesday eu imploroo😢

Wow, I have watched the last seasons of this show (up to s5) so absentmindedly that I competely missed that Robin is supposed to be neurodivergent. I did notice she was annoying in season 4, but so were a bunch of other characters. I also agree she should get a real, meaningful relationship/connection with someone or none at all.

I think you jave a lot of really good points but i think the one thing thet isn't out of character is her being awkward and unpopular because in season 3 she wasn't really the popular girl either BUT that doesn't excuse the wruteres throwing her brain put of the window....

i def agree

É exatamente oq eu senti

They already have quite a few comic relief characters in season, four like Argo. So they probably didn’t need another one. But I don’t think of her as a comic relief character sense stuff she didn’t seems funny.

if they had kept her as Steve's love interest the fandom would have still shipped her with Nancy so

I honestly don't like the whole "robins personality changed" take 😭

Very important video!!!

@obviouslyqueer

11 ай бұрын

Thank you 🙏

I'm kind of glad know I didn't watch the last season. It would have be so hurtfull to see that change of character 😢 She was the best in 3S

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

She was a queen in season 3 💔

Honestly could not quite put my finger on why Robin changed so much for me and I didn’t like her. This videos essay sums it up perfectly! Love your channel!

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! 💞

I love robin bro

Now i understand why i loved Robin in season 3 but hated her in season 4

The entirety of Season Four was trash. They ruined Robin, Jonathan, Mike….

@obviouslyqueer

4 ай бұрын

Stranger Things was great at season 1 and then has gone straight down hill

@IonIsFalling7217

4 ай бұрын

Oh Season three was by far my fav! @@obviouslyqueer

@obviouslyqueer

4 ай бұрын

@@IonIsFalling7217 nice!

Tell me you hate neurodiverse people without telling me you hate neurodiverse people

@obviouslyqueer

10 ай бұрын

Oh don't simplify it. There's been some good neurodivergent rep lately. Rare, but it happens, both intentional and characters being read as so, and Robin in my opinion are not one of those.

Yeeeeeeah, I see your point, but I heavily disagree. Maya had something to say about Robin herself. And I'm sorry, but there's more to Robin then the fact she's gay. Robin was written around Maya herself to make her more comfortable to a degree. And the character was significant, yes, but there is thing called, surprise surprise, relationship development. I honestly must say that this video is absolutely off mark and you actually don't actually know what you're talking about. Sorry.