I wonder how different itd be if the m3 was being slowed out of turn 4 and had to take a narrow line into turn 5

That was a very great comparison video, underrated. Thank you.

Was an oil cooler ever installed, I don’t see it on the mod list.

Sean, do you have a baffle installed in the oil pan? Getting ready to track my car for the first time and am slightly worried about starvation.

Sean your 335i the actual springs and shocks did you modify them to aftermarket or was it stock?

Great video Seans54! This is exactly the video I was hoping you might do. Thanks. I was also happy to see that my own decision of choosing the E46 M3 over my old 335i proves wise in a tracked situation. (In Calgary we will have a new track opening in 2018 the Rocky Mountain Motorsports Park but until then "sigh") I did love my 335i and the power but the design of the E46 chassis (barring the subframe follies) is just to excellent in my experience as well. I hope this video gets many views as it should. Thumbs way up! Oh and your builds on your cars are excellent as well. I'm always checking you for more content.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks Greg! I'm open to any other ideas or questions you may have so let me know- I'm always open to content ideas and ways to help the community. The new track sounds exciting! Eventually I plan to tour some other tracks down in So Cal and maybe up north towards OR or WA. Yeah, the 335i is a great car but the E46 M3 is better overall on a road course. I can use more power in the straights, otherwise I love it!

I know it's a little late now... But did you ever try tracking a 335is? Cuz they have that extra radiator on the driver side, and then you could put whatever awesome oil cooler you wanted to on the other side. I don't track my 335is but I do drag and roll race it often enough and I've never had cooling problems. With all stock cooling I think that extra radiator BMW threw in on the IS models really helped out a lot.

Oh shit I LOVE this man now. Very nice & helpful videos man! XD

What was your oil temperatures on track with 335i?

Hello, I want to go with a set of Apex EC-7R forged 18x9.5+35 with a 265 square, I have BC Racing DS specs with swift spring upgrade, I noticed you have 255 on your E90, a lot of others have told me I will rub on the suspension, what is your input, I have camber front top hats and I am planning on going with m3 ads front and rear

Hi, I have a 335i like the one you had and i was just at Laguna Seca this past weekend. I see on the mod list you had a beefier front sway bar, did that cause more understeer or oversteer? If understeer, how did you compensate?

@bapr3887

3 жыл бұрын

Bigger sway bar on front = more understeer. Bmw is naturally way too oversteer, so beefier front sway bar is itself compensator.

You have any resources to share on how you wired the electric fan on the m3? Did you just plug in instead of aux fan?Any overheating issues? I think I would like to keep aux, so looking at which wiring kit to get and how to get the additional electric fan wired. Thanks, Sean.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

HI Stas, I followed the Mishimoto Electric fan installation video found here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/foCcvKqmfKXJhLQ.html. With the upgraded CSF Radiator, CSF Oil cooler, and Mishimoto Electric fan I have zero overheating issues. I got rid of the aux fan because it blocks airflow to the radiator and oil cooler and you don't need it. AC still works just fine.

anyone knows how much the OEM intercooler weighs on a 335i?

Hi Sean, I've got a similarly setup manual 335i LCI E90 with stock turbos at about 18-20psi on a protune with the full M3 suspension and all the FBO mods and brakes upgraded. I certainly don't have the awesome cooling mods that you had but I've come to a point after a number of track days where I'm unsure of how much further the car can achieve without upgrading to Pure Turbos. I've often disregarded the ability of a LCI E90 M3 but solely as a track toy (4-5) times in summer, would I better of evaluating moving to a LCI M3 (DCT) and doing a few upgrades to the M3 e.g track pads, exhaust and suspension as a track toy?

@1compaqedr8

5 жыл бұрын

Seems wiser to wait until you can get a f80 m3 instead so you can still have the turbo tuning potential plus M handling instead of being limited by the e90 m3 v8's lack of upgrade potential without a supercharger $$$. Unless you would be content with the power of the e90 m3 compared to your tuned 335i.

@FactionGreen

Жыл бұрын

How have the stock turbos hold on that boost? Mine's peaking at 18,6 PSI but I'm a bit afraid it could be too much for track purpose?

Those numbers (HP & TQ) seem a bit low for the 335i especially with the e85. I've seen cars with those mods dyno well into the 400's. Maybe something is off with the tune? Is it custom or an OTS map?

@famousmidnight

4 жыл бұрын

For a mild tune, those numbers are spot on. Running the hottest tune possible on track is just plain stupid. 380whp would be pretty close to 450hp at the crank.. His cooling issue is kind of strange though with his mods he shouldn't be overheating

@mogulme6190

2 жыл бұрын

@@famousmidnight 380 is right for stage 2 on E? Nah

I know this is an old video. i was wondering if MHD stage 2+ with the selection of maximum race cooling mode would help this N54? Or did you have something similar already running?

@jacobhauenstein

Жыл бұрын

If the car is in limp mode, or near it, the water pump is already at 100% duty cycle. Max cooling mode can’t make the oil cooler open sooner, so you’re just slightly extending the time till limp mode by having the car hold water temps around 180 instead of the normal 200-210* I wouldn’t waste time on CSF radiator, have two friends who noticed negligible improvements and later had leaks. Get an oil cooler upgrade that opens the thermostat earlier, has good flow, and doesn’t drop pressure. Automatic trans cars have a cooler that uses the coolant to heat the ATF when cold and cool it when hot. So on a track day your overheated 240* ZF is also dumping extra temp into the radiator. Build the car to take the heat, max cooling mode shines inbetween sessions when you need to quickly cool the car back off. Idle for a minute then engine off ignition on hood open mac cooling mode to recover limp mode temps fastest

Good video, man. What about the new 335i? Good for track? I'm thinking of getting some Bmw for the track, 125i, 328i, 335i or maybe M135i... What do you think?

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I think any BMW is good for the track. It's just about how serious you get, how you modify it, and how much you push it. Generally speaking, all motor would be more reliable than force induction because there's less stuff to go wrong. I would got with anything "M" or choose the one with more power. LOL

@Headxoxote

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Sean. I’ll try to save for a E92 M3 then.

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

Great idea! :-)

Is there any way to tell the ecu to reduce its temprature to about 90c? Rather than 120+ as it is?

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Not sure. However, I ran a custom oil cooler with a custom thermostat (to open at a lower temp) but I still suffered limp mode. Honestly, I think with stock boost it would probably be ok but who wants to run stock boost on track? LOL

nice, would like to see you thoughts on supercharger for e46 m3 and the track.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

The E46 M3 can definitely use more power in the straights! However, I don't think I'll go force induction (supercharger or turbo) because of potential reliability and over heating issues. I'll rather go all motor like a V8. :-)

Both quick cars but the 335i had the other bmw bmw slowing it down for longer than the m3 had the corvette slowing it down. Only real way to test this is to have the track to itself on both cars

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

I've tracked the 335i numerous times at Laguna and 1.46 was the best I could run. The car in front of me didn't really "slow" me down or alter my line- I got the point by fairly quick. Either way, 600 lb difference on track is huge!

@zacharybrowning2576

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 like I said both are very quick, I couldn't do any better lol

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

I really like the 335i and had plans to turn it into a serious track car. But there were many track days where I could not finish a full session (20 min each session) let alone a full day (5 sessions).

@Rolandswebkro

7 жыл бұрын

have you tryed the m3 hood on the 335i to get more air flow out. i run that on my 330d

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

I had a custom vented hood (3 large vents to suck air out) but that didn't help. Hard to see them but it's a 0.31 of this video.

didnt see your mods on the 335i, but did you change the factory intercooler yet? if not then upgrade it to 7" fmic

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Yes, it has a 7" FMIC. Mod list starts at 0.43 of this video.

@KozmikEl7

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 wow and still over heating?? man...your really running it!

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Yes that's for sure. LOL It has a 7" FMIC, upgraded Radiator, upgraded/huge custom oil cooler, and vented hood- still over heats when driven hard.

Excellent point about limp mode. I never thought of it. What were the reasons for it?

@gh-cu1jh

5 жыл бұрын

Just pure heat soak to be honest, I've had it happen on my e90 n54 oil temps go over 260°f and mine has a oil cooler on a 45°f night from just going for some midnight hauls and launches in mexico ;) and shortly after that my car went into limp mode. So I'm guessing that that being in a hot track day were your constantly pushing the car would overload the stock cooling system as the turbos are a huge heat source, I've swapped the radiator on mine and the radiator is beyond tiny and so is the oil cooler.

@famousmidnight

3 жыл бұрын

Anyone tracking a 335i needs proper oil cooling capabliity... a single radiator isn't always enough which is why they make large dual radiators. if you overheat with that setup you're doing something wrong. Plenty of n54's out there that can go lap after lap... if your serious about tracking a e90 you either need a widebody kit and full interior delete or just buy a e90/92 m3 which will smoke the e46

Id really liek to see a comparison of an e39 m5 and a 335i

Sean, did you weigh the 335i? Just curious because I think you may be a little lighter than 3600lbs after your weight reduction items.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

I didn't weigh the 335i but I think it's close to the 3600 lbs, plus or minus. It has full interior and navigation. However, the carbon roof & sunroof delete shed about 40lbs and the trunk about 8-10lbs. The 17's made a huge difference though, not just in weight but in upsprung mass. I did weigh the M3 though, it's just about 3000lbs flat with a half tank of gas.

@Bernooo_

7 жыл бұрын

My 335i is 3530 lbs with 3/4 tank of gas, full interior, nav and sunroof. You're not far off. What carbon roof did you use? Did you run a non sunroof headliner after?

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Nice weight! I ran the IND Distribution full carbon fiber roof. I kept the stock sunroof headliner with the stock sliding shade. Check out the video here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/iZuG0pVvh6mcoco.html

@innagumenyuk8497

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 your way off with the parts you have. your about 3450 lbs

Sean, I'm curious how your custom oil cooler compared to the OE? I have a 135is I'd like to track and was told the cooling system had significant upgrades. Just curious what you know about these

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Hi Derek, I ran a huge Setrab oil cooler with a custom thermostat (to open sooner) and it helped but didn't solve the cooling issues. Check out my Instagram post dated Oct 1st, 2015. I've heard about the 135is and the extra small radiator... I think if you're running stock boost you'll probably be ok. Once you're tuned and running over stock boost it starts to put extra heat and stress into the motor.

good video thanks for the info

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

For sure!

Only time I’ve been in limp mode was when something was wrong.... that’s street racing back to back and circuit racing in 90 degree weather

50WHP is not a lot of less power. with 3000/3600 and 310/360 the power ration is 4.55 hp per kilogram and 4.19 per kilogram. without watching the clip over the cars overview, the e46 has a full welded roll cage which for everyone that has tracked BMW knows that help with the rear working properly especially in e46. Plus one of the cars is N/A the other one is FI, there is so much difference in these two cars.... Is the 335i 6at? maual? dct? as we can see the m3 being SMG.

The suspension is certainly an advantage to the m3 beyond just weight. Weight is a huge equalizer but the more serious suspension is an even more colossal advantage when paired with less weight. Sucks you have idrive, that paired with lighter seats is another 200lbs easy, open dump exhaust is another 50lbs. Are both the weights race weight with you on the scale or the car alone? I'd love to see a 335 with a bit more serious suspension and maxed out stock turbos on the track...

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Suspension is definitely important and the 335i had full M3 suspension bits (M3 front arms, M3 rear arms, M3 subframe bushings, etc). With the tune it was also running over double boost so the stock turbos were maxed out. The weight of both cars were without driver. The 335i has potential but overheating is a major problem.

@evanmillett6857

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 Did it have full M3? Because there are a lot of little pieces that add up... but beyond that, the M3 guys have plenty of their own stuff to upgrade. The same caliber suspension work on the e90 I feel like would close the gap a good bit. But man you ain't kidding about the heat. A stage 2 lpfp getting you to a e50-60 mix will help close in that gap on heat power loss, but overheating limp mod is still a big issue. Btw both these cars would stomp a stock e90 m3. If you're running jb4, map 7 likes the track with e50. Inlets also def have the most bang for buck on the track as well, opening up the power in the lower and higher revs

@evanmillett6857

7 жыл бұрын

Stock turbos conservatively max at 500whp with a tuner who knows what he's doing, I'd recommend a BEF with some custom good maps, makes a hell of a difference.. if you're not already on the 335i mods FB page, get on it lol, AJ is a good tuner on there

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Pretty much full M3 suspension bits besides the rear M3 spring arm. It also had a Wavetrac LSD. I think the 335i could go faster, it would just constantly limp before I could get there. My buddy has an E92 M3 and yes, the highly modded 335i would stomp on it.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Power wasn't the issue for me, it was the overheating. I think the only other option was to have a company build me a huge custom radiator but I didn't get that far.

Why is this one less

My take away is that a 4 door 5 seater is close to the same as a coup. I am happy to loss 2 second to have a practical daily.

What oil you using? Oil can makes difference on the engine temperature.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Mobil 1 0W40 Fully Synthetic

@skytech7404

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 you need to change the oil, mobile 1 0w40 is not good

@skytech7404

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 try use the Liqui Moly 5w40

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

0W40 is quite popular for this car. Thanks for the suggestion on the Liqui Moly.

@skytech7404

7 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 ya, they were, I used them before, but try the Liqui Moly if you have a chance, you will see the difference, it's pretty big difference in the temperature

I fixed my limp mode problem. I made an air current go through my car... costume made with plastic and glue. I have never seen my oil temp heat go above the half way mark. I could share this info with you?

@Lu-e

4 жыл бұрын

Email me please l.fuentes79@yahoo.com

@zacrichards3604

3 жыл бұрын

How did you do it?

i think it was a bit unfair since the e46 had no traffic

@Chrischone2

2 жыл бұрын

I think you ignored the part where he stated the best time he was able to do on the car in general

Would've liked to see them on the same tires. Bit weird the heavier car is only on a 255

@OwenChernoff

2 жыл бұрын

E90 can't fit a larger tire than that, especially square

@TheCorington

2 жыл бұрын

you can't realistically fit more tire in the front of a 335 without seriously rolling and pulling fenders. Yes you can put a bigger tire on a smaller wheel, but you want to keep a 1:1 ratio or slightly less

Cool video dude, but you are comparing a fully stripped out car to a car with a full interior.... Why not strip the 335i? I am sure u can get another 200-300 pounds off it.

Why haven't you try dual oil cooler?

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

Dual OCs were $1500 so I built my own with a huge Setrab Oil Cooler and custom thermostat (opens at a lower temp). Guys on the forums have dual OCs and the car still goes into limp mode. The 335i isn't meant to be a serious track car. Of course anything is possible with an unlimited budget but after spending thousands and thousands of dollars I realized there are better options for a serious track car. Check this out: kzread.info/dash/bejne/e46Y2bWgiNngeqQ.html

@GoncaloSaSilva

6 жыл бұрын

Check out this www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1684/Berk-Technologys-BMW-135i-Time-Attack-Demonstrator.aspx They track the car with dual oil cooler and no issues. What do you think?

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

Yes I read that awhile back. The dual OCs may work but it depends on if the car is stock power/boost, driver (how hard is he going), and track conditions (cooler ambient). Serious track guys run the dual oil coolers WITH additional modifications (lower thermostat, upgraded radiator, vented hood, etc) so that tells me it's not a simple plug and play kit. www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404220

Vid title *paddle shift VS 6sp manual*

My e92 scales at 3550 lbs

E46 m3 is rated at 333hp stock

Chassis of the e46 is so much more agile

Sean, I'd just like to thank you for the great videos you put together. It seems you helped out countless BMW owners like myself who work on their own cars and track. I'd like to provide some hope for the 335 owners out there with limp mode problems. I've been tracking my 2007 335i with 14lbs of boost. After installing the a second Setrab 625 oil cooler on the drivers side and deleting the oil thermostat the limp mode has not reappeared. Here is my Laguna Seca video with oil temperature overlaid. There is a description of what I done to the car in the description. kzread.info/dash/bejne/epqNyc5wYcadiNo.html

@SeanS54

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! After spending thousands of dollars trying to solve/prevent the overheating issues I gave up. I'm sure it's possible with a bigger budget and some faith. :-) Also, as you get faster and faster you will start to put more stress on the system. Keep an eye on the temps!

Maybe if it was an E92 and an auto it would of had a better chance

335 💪

Too many variables. Not a great comparison. Especially with traffic.

e46 is still a good car ,but the SMG is Crap,luckily you can covert to manual

there is no way 335i is 3600 weight. i know a guy who has one and weighted and was 3400. plus don't forget you got light weight parts so it should definitely should be 3300. and the 335i with m3 control arms and arc8 rims should take the e46 m3 on a track easy. they driver jest sucks. stock on stock 335i vs e46 m3 on nuberghine track have almost dentical time recorded.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Multiple sources (motortrend, car & driver, wiki, e90 forums) state the 335i weighs 3600-3650 lbs. No way your friend's stock 335i weighs 3400.

@HPAddict

6 жыл бұрын

SeanS54 I meassured my E92 335i with moonroof and navi and it was 3589lbs. But Without a moonroof and navigation you might really be around 3400 lbs I would love to see a measurement

@NoSmileification

5 жыл бұрын

@@HPAddict Nav weighs what, 20-30 lbs TOPS? And the weight savings of a carbon fiber roof vs stock with moon roof is 40lbs, verified on various forums.So in your case a generous 60lb weight savings would still be at 3500+

@beamerandthebeast3979

5 жыл бұрын

@@NoSmileification i mean if i take my seats out, carbon fiber it up, and light expensive rims, i may be 3400 pounds but i am at 3600 with the xi model, even with lighter M3 rims and a lighter exhaust system... I can definetly beat a lot of cars from a dig or on a straight away with all the mods I did as well as the weight reduction, but on a track, older m3's, s4s, and even a couple civics hurl past me on corners....one time, a miata got me too...

@NoSmileification

5 жыл бұрын

@@beamerandthebeast3979 ye awd systems will have an advantage for sure during a dig. Around corners the best hp/weight will win though.

335i 1,05 whp to 1 lbs M3 1,03 whp to 1 lbs.

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

The torque makes a huge difference in acceleration. I can definitely use more power in the E46 M3.

440i modded would beat any track car, thoughts?

Pretty bs comparison when having 335i stuck behind a car

If m3 was 6sp man ten 335 would smoke it

My 335 is 3550 and the MOST important handling advantage is tires. #1 Funny how the M3 had a square 275 setup and the 335 had a square 255 setup. #2 the 335 is also manual (brings down your times by a fair amount). #3 the 335 has 380whp in the MID range not top end, like the M3. What im trying to say is the difference in power bands can make a huge impact in track times so you should not just pay attention to peak power dyno numbers. Im surpised this guy thinks his anecdotal evidence is even valid...

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

It's personal empirical data from owning and tracking both cars. The 335i couldn't fit anything wider than a 255 up front with fender rolled and max camber. I took the wheels from the 335i and put them on the E46 M3 (255/40/17) in the beginning before switching to 275/35/18. I've owned and loved the 335i for over 5 years and it's a great car. The fact still remains that regardless of upgrades and mods the car will overheat on track. The E46 M3 has NOT overheated on me once. BTW, now that I've worked out the bugs on my E46 M3, the 335i lap times are not even close. ;-)

@a4Audi2153

6 жыл бұрын

But its not empirical data because this video is trying to show the difference between power and weight and all constants are not equal. 275's do fit on the 335 you just have to get the right offset and wheel size. Forgot to mention the 335 was probably heat soaking and putting out less than 380 the whole time, also at 7k rpm im sure it was putting out way less than 380whp (what i was talking about before with dyno numbers). What tires were you running on the M3 and 335? im assuming they were the same kind...

@SeanS54

6 жыл бұрын

275's do not fit on the front 335i regardless of offset and camber. You need over-fenders or wide body to run 275s in the front. It's not just the fenders, it's the wheel arch and suspension geometry. Tires were Nitto NT-01 on both sets.

@a4Audi2153

6 жыл бұрын

Simply not true, check out this thread. 275's will fit. www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1152837&page=2

@oceansidepirates23

6 жыл бұрын

Nate kp read that thread man. Even the company of the rim he's running suggests not running that big of a tire on a 8.5 rim. Wayy to much sidewall. To fit it you need a 9.5 inch rim in the front, causing u to need camber plates spacers etc etc

Its arguable that m3 is also faster with automatic and paddle shift

@SeanS54

7 жыл бұрын

Yes, that definitely helps.