I did Mid Volume SSB on trainer road. It eventually burnt me out. Just too much intensity. My new coach has me doing polarized on just 5-6 hours a week. 2 days of intensity, 3 days z2. I feel more rested and I can tackle the V02 and SS sessions comfortably. I've gained about 30 watts in 8 months and just hit 4 watt/kg on 5-6 hours. This is actually sustainable for me.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

awesome, glad you guys found a great recipe that works for you! keep crushing it!

I'm 100% on your boat. Did SS for 3-4 years (burned out every one of them), and then moved to a Polarized approach, which is getting me faster (AND it's manageable -I can see myself keeping up with it for years down the road).

@EVOQBIKE

9 ай бұрын

glad you've been able to make some changes to get faster!!! keep up the great work!

@thomashald8000

6 ай бұрын

Did you recover enough between training rides?

Classic case of people falling in love with their own ideas and not being able to accept anything else. Which is find funny because polarised / pyramidal is pretty much the way most endurance athletes have trained for decades...

I did my first CPET test the other day and the basic outcome was that I was doing my zone 2 rides too hard. They were still zone 2, but always the upper end (67% FTP, 75% MHR) which is right on my LT1 threshold! This is fine sometimes but I have been doing every z2 ride like this which for me is nearly every ride and I hadn't been doing any vo2 max work, just occasional anaerobic intervals! I now need to bring the z2 rides down a bit and introduce more vo2 work, in other words, I need to be MORE polarized, even though I spend very little time doing sweet spot/TH work, my z2 rides have been creeping into that grey tempo area and I should have been classing the longer ones over 2 hours as 'hard' workouts! It also turns out that despite being a big fasted z2 advocate and low carb eater, because my z2 rides were on the edge of turning glycolitic (from glycogen storage and gluconeogenesis), I'm actually no better at burning fat than I would have been fuelling with carbs and riding slower!! I would HIGHLY recommend anyone do a CPET test, it's the best money I've spent on cycling since getting a power meter!

Right on the money!! Many riders don’t know how hard a proper z2 endurance ride can actually be until they follow your advice on how to execute it. And the benefit is massive once you start cranking them out on a regular basis.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

glad they are working for you Dan!! keep getting after it!

@PhiyackYuh

Жыл бұрын

How do you define “proper z2”? What is it based on? Percentage of hr max or based on ftp? Or both? Show me someone who trains 3-4 hours a week who can get faster on polarised training. Theres a reason why pyramidal work. Any single sport, you can do polarised at 10 hours training and improve. Try doing that with triathlon and see where it takes you. These people know 3-4 hours aint going to improve your cycling with polarised training.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

@@PhiyackYuh hey Tyrone, you could define zone 2 based on how you define all your zones, whether using power (preferred) or HR. We have lots of videos going more in depth on that. 3-4 hours a week is tough to get faster on period, no matter what you do. This is not a triathlon channel, and so I don't really have any comment for a triathlete, but good luck. Also, I just posted a video on 6h a week training.

@gerrysecure5874

10 ай бұрын

​@@PhiyackYuhNonsense, I do polarized on 6hrs per week and it works well. Don't talk about things you only have opinion but no experience.

@gerrysecure5874

5 ай бұрын

A 4hr ride at 65% vo2max is not a walk in the park.

Excellent video Brendan! Thanks!

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure! thanks for checking in with us!

Love all of the content. I am doing tons of endurance and my coach has me doing some Vo2Max, because I hate it so much.....LOL. However, with me, you are spot on that the endurance helps the other numbers, specially Vo2Max, as it doesn't seem as bad for me now. I never coast on my training rides, no matter how long they are. That constant presser is the game changer. Also, I am aim for 70-75% FTP on those rides, though I have built up to that. I had one of my cycling buddies pedal the entire 3 plus hour ride and he was just totally done. So, now, that's how he trains as well. I told him that he can coast in the group rides to recover. Anyway, keep up the great work and the awesome insight!!

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

haha some vo2 is great! constant pressure for the win! thanks for the comments and good luck with the training!

You said that in 6 months people wouldn't want to touch the bike. I'd say 3 or 4 months for you to burn out. I think people sees the value on that model proposed by Allen in instant returns because we are very impatient and want to perform well right now and not go through the process. I've even ridden 1 hour a day indoors during 4 weekdays, and then on the weekend 3 to 4 hour rides each day, everything in Z2 and worked wonders in the long run. Here we have like 10 to 20, even 30 km climbs that my friends want to do now and I say no because that's too much at this time of the year. Even riding at Z2, climbing very slowly, wouldn't be as fun as an actual group ride with everyone on everyone's wheels. Thanks as always for your content!

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

you're probably right ;-) I was trying to give some extra grace time 😀. thanks for checking out the video and good luck!!

Excellent advice. My view is the same. Too much high intensity is more likely to break you down than build you up. For now I'm sticking to 1 OU, 1 TH and 2 EN. This should get me back in shape ;)

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

good luck Jibba! your plan sounds great!

I finally took the plunge and had a lab lactate profile test. it was very eye opening, my Lt1 (63% FTP) was lower than I'd been training at roughly 7-8 bpm below where i thought it was and my LT2 or Lactate turn point was also much lower and closer to my LT1 than I expected. Platforms/Garmin had my LTHR at 150-160 where as in reality my LT1 is around 127 bpm and my LT2 is 138 bpm. It's a very narrow window i have to work with. My 'easy' rides are now done at just below LT1 and I complement these with harder session some V02 / Threshold but another session I've incorporated is working just below my LT2 at around 75% of FTP with the idea from my blood markers that I can work on 'pushing' up my LT2 number by working just below it. It looks to be responding and i can now push slightly harder watts and for longer before I start to breach the LT2 point. But I will say without actually having a lab test to get these numbers you can work in rough area but you may be over or under shooting. Most surprising to me was the narrow window between Lt1 and Lt2 as before the test i was training in the window thinking I was in the correct zones.

@EVOQBIKE

11 ай бұрын

the key will be going back to the lab...one off tests have bias even based on who provided the test, so make sure you're double checking all of this as you continue to train. and TBH 150-160 sounds SUPER high to start, 130 much more reasonable! thanks for posting these insights!

Coggan and Hunter leaned out the window some 15 years ago writing a book, becoming famous with their sweetspot claim. They are simply not able to admit being wrong after such a long time.

I look at it this way: I need 2-3 days of recovery between high intensity rides. Either I stay at home and do nothing or I do an endurance ride. This way I naturally accumulate the percentage you are suggesting.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

that's awesome! and by no means are my %'s perfect, but just a ballpark. Good luck with the training, and the broken shifter cable 😆😆😆

@BrokenShifterCable

Жыл бұрын

@@EVOQBIKE my shifter cable broke in the middle of Alps on a 7 day 1200km ride 🙂

Great video as always. I've always felt like trainer road is a little stuck and now can't admit they might have it wrong.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

thanks for the kind words and keep smashing the training!

@DavidSaundersPosts

10 ай бұрын

Trainerroad 100% offers a polarized plan. They don't deny that it works. What they are saying is that Sweet Spot plans work better--because consistency and compliance are higher among their subscribers. I tried it this past Winter, and found that doing steady Z2 on the trainer was impossibly boring. Doing Z2 steady outside is somewhat easier, but still boring unless it's with friends. Next Winter going back to SS. Sweet spot is just hard enough that you can stay focused for some weird reason.

You're going to blow up in the cycling youtube niche mon ami. Great stuff.

@EVOQBIKE

2 ай бұрын

You think so? Thanks for your super kind words! Good luck with your training and racing!

You're making a lot of sense. Just the other day I saw a video on youtube, It's a coverage a of weekly local uphill fun race (10-15KM avg 8-9%). So, a very famous randonneur came to participate. And he smashed it. Didn't get the KOM I guess, but he finished the race with no difficulties at all. Like he barely put any efforts at all. Passed so many cyclist along the way. And by the way he finished first of the recent 1500KM race on late 2022, so yeah. Z2 all the way from now on for me.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

that's wild! thanks for sharing! z2 is amazing

It works. More then 20 hrs of endueance a week, one hard session (crit) and race simulation on the weekend, and i see only inceeasing numbers, and feel.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

heck yeah, awesome! glad you've found something that works for you!

Well said Champ

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

thank you Zaahier!

Saying trainerroad model is a sweetspot model is a bit wrong, they should rename it because there isnt much sweetspot in the plan at all. Even in their "sweetspot base" plans its only sweetspot once per week. If you pick the low volume which they prefer most atheletes do its 3-4 hours structured workouts per week where one of the w/o is sweetspot usually. If you feel you can add more volume trainerroad prefer you add on zone 2 days or extend your w/o with zon 2.

@EVOQBIKE

11 ай бұрын

thanks for highlighting this! hmm that's interesting, I've seen some crazy high amt's of SS and the usual complaint from TR people in the forum; notes tho! Thanks Fish!

Great video dude, I got injured recently and completely lost my fitness, when I was able to ride again I went Sweetspot all the way and made quick rapid improvements, but as soon as I felt that inevitable fatigue setting in I switched to a more polarised approach and consequently have continued to improve at a much slower but sustainable rate without burn out. Question for you ? I live in a very undulating part of England so keeping the power steady Z2 outside is a nightmare, is it ok to use my Training Peaks Heart rate Z2 ? my max HR is 174, Lactate threshold 156 ( some platforms estimate it at 162 ) my Z2 is 126 - 137bpm, is it ok to ride for 3-4hrs staying within those parameters and classify that as Z2 ? thanx in advance.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

hey Wayne, you could do it by HR, but also just focus on the power as much as you can, and use the gears to avoid big surges in Z4. you should be on target then! and don't overly try to be robotic with it, you'll be good IMO.

Trainer Road is just some american, short term, no pain no gain bs. 4 weeks, maybe 8 yes, but not a sustained improvement over 5-10 years.

re: including heart rate. Over the last year my coach has had me working with DFA alpha1 for heart rate info. It has been a great way to know what sustained effort you're working at. yes, I still watch power, and general HR. Having the DFAa number on my Garmin is great as an extra tool for endurance ride pacing.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

that's awesome! glad you guys have found something that is working well for you!! thanks for sharing that Zyzzzzzz!

For certain types of riders, especially long-distance triathlon or ultra-racers, would more time at tempo be better? I mean, there is the principle of specificity, and a lot of them are probably aiming to spend their races at tempo. My understanding is that marathoners do a lot of tempo intervals.

I can only hope that my competition doesn't watch this video

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

haha, you'll still get em!! good luck Gene!

While I agree with lots of stuff you say, I think you got that bell curve distribution wrong. I train 5 times a week and it is about 12 hours. I do 30% sweetspot. That does not mean I do 4 hours of sweetspot. That means that every even week there is one sweetspot workout and every uneven workout there are two of them. The sweetspot workout is either 3x20@90% FTP or the "Medium" Hour of Power workouts on Xert. That is about 1-2 of the 12 hours I am doing; still it is 30% because the point of reference is the amount of sessions dedicated to sweetsport, not the accurate "time in zone".

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

it's okay to not agree with everything! That is not how those percentages are laid out, as I'm talking total training time, TiZ. Counting it as sessions is another way of tracking it though, and therefore you wouldn't be 30%.

Oh...and the hrt, went down 20 bits for the same watts

If I had 6 hours per week to train, would I still go with the polarized approach or SS, VO2 and Threshold/Over unders?

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

I'd pick 2 of those per week, so prob vo2 and over unders...skip the Sweet Spot IMO

Read about Nils Van der Poel training program.

@EVOQBIKE

5 ай бұрын

a great read! that's pyramidal, slightly different (more z4 included)

@cracked229

3 ай бұрын

Nils did 5x threshold days for like 4 weeks? And this was after months of 30+ hour weeks of zone 2 so he had an incredible base to support the intensity. Not even remotely close to what Hunter Allen proposes time crunched folks attempt.

@edgibbs3229

3 ай бұрын

@@EVOQBIKE Greatly appreciate your wonderfully informative videos! Let’s get it!!! Love that energy…

I don't know what to do tbh lol. I do 3x 2hour zone 2 rides a week and 2x 2by15min 91% of FTP sessions per week (this will be upped to 2x20min @100% FTP after a few weeks). Maybe I would be better switching 1 of my threshold rides to a VO2 ride.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

yes I would!

Not enough Z4

What if you only have 4-5 hours because you are a time crunched parent?

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

that's a tough one since I don't know your natural capacities or goals! but I would highly consider 2 higher intensity sessions (FTP work or above based on your needs) and the remainder endurance. Good luck Jack!

by the way some elite cyclists train at 49% of their 450 w ftp

@EVOQBIKE

8 ай бұрын

that's right! the higher the FTP the lower the % often goes. when my FTP was around 420, riding at 75% for endurance just wasn't possible for me. it's down a bit towards 405 now and even 300w is a big ask for my legs lol. thanks for your comment!

Trainer road is not for people with 10-12 hours a week. Their biggest plan is 9 hours a week and they don't recommend it for almost anyone. Generally they recommend the mid and low volume plans which are 6.5 and 3.5 hours a week respectively. 10-12 hours a week is a crazy luxury and can't be considered "time-crunched". I do low volume with trainer road (3.5 hours) a week and the intensity seems very reasonable and has been sustainable for a few years now with a decent progression in FTP. I would love to do a polarized plan and invest more hours to training but life is too busy right now. I know some people who have done their mid volume plans and its been pretty hard on them, I don't think I would go that route if I had the time and would probably move to a polarized plan above 5 hours. Dylan Johnson had a good interview with a coach who recommend moving to polarized above 5 hours.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

9 vs 10....I mean, pretty close. Good luck with the training!

Lol 10 hours per week for me would be awesome if I had the time. I’m more around 6-7 hrs per week, have to fit in the gym and a few easy runs in as well.

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

keep crushing on the time that you have!! 🚀🚀🚀

where are you riding in the video?

@EVOQBIKE

Жыл бұрын

a mish mash of rides, FL NC and maybe some other spots!

@fultonlopez7846

Жыл бұрын

@EVOQBIKE i am jealous of your wide roads. SC has very narrow roads

Coggan beligerant boomer