This wasn't a fun video topic, but I felt it was necessary, hopefully helpful and if nothing else - informative as usual ;) You'll probably be able to tell that I'm sick of wasting money on paints that weren't suppose to limit me to prints/sketchbooks... These were sold as appropriate for wall art/to sell, but were not lightfast as advertised! I realize not everyone is interested in this aspect of watercolor quality, but it's still good to be aware of the problems and rating systems. There's not enough information out there about the way artists are generally mislead when buying paints. I hope this will help some artists make informed decisions. It is not my intention to call out any specific company, though I am sad that big well known companies like these are making such mistakes. White Nights is pretty new to trying to fix their lightfastness issues by removing old fugitive colors from their catalog. They and Roman Szmal lack some of the years of experience that Schmincke and Rembrandt have with regards to the nuances of longterm lightfast testing and a broader/longer history of customer usage/reporting. I hope to see improvements in all of their testing as well as being open to changing label ratings once negative reports are verified.For those of you who want to do simple home testing: By running your home tests in a window that gets direct sunlight for 1 full year, you can most fairly compare all of your paints (with different test-start times) to each other. Without a UV measuring meter or Blue Wool Scale panel, this is the easiest method to get *roughly comparable amounts of UV per test (*weather/UV-index unavoidably varies). In the case of PO64 the diluted range completely disappeared between months 6-9 as if it was never painted (can't get worse in that regard, thus my pre-1 year reporting).Each paint strip with masstone and diluted swatches gets daily sunlight all spring, summer, fall and winter before final comparison (checks at 3 summer/6 winter months can tell you the most fugitive colors). This method isolates the best lightfast colors from the worst fugitive ones. BW6-8 colors will still be performing well at 1 year (LFII colors will show MINOR fading/hue shifts which do not typically appear until months 6-12). Anything showing dramatic fading before 1 year is not ideal for wall art/to sell. Hundreds of colors in Daniel Smith's catalog can withstand 3+ years of Florida sun (indoor normal vertical window lighting, not outdoor box horizontal skyward facing/40 degree angle tests). Even the majority of the Paul Rubens 48 pan set has remained unchanged after 2 years of exposure. There's a ton of great colors out there! Truly lightfast colors are durable, they don't fade like PO64 in just a few weeks. I'd love to hear if you've had any surprising results that conflicted with brand ratings?

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

PS. Shout out to Miranda Watson - Alkali Creek Art who is also trying to help the artist community out by going back and swatching all the masstone/diluted stripes of her old watercolor sets to LF test them for us all!!! I love seeing this kzread.info/dash/bejne/lH1-2qeRhpPZp7Q.html

@Anna-be9cr

3 жыл бұрын

Fugitive colours are not for everyone. They don't limit you. They don't meet with your expectations which is a totally different thing! For artists like myself who make experimental art these colours are ideal.

@mariram

3 жыл бұрын

The irony is that White Nights introduced the new Orange instead of their fading Orange Lake on PO17. Not the best choice of a lightfast pigment, it's a pity they didn't do tests.

@McQuizzical

3 жыл бұрын

I totally hear you! This isn't something to be taken lightly, if we sell our work we could come in for a major backlash from our customers. These paint manufacturers need to get their finger out, before people start seeking lawsuits!

@Shesvii

3 жыл бұрын

We're with you, Kimberly. You're doing a huge amount of work and we're grateful for it! It's unfair and unprofessional how they mislabel products. It limits us.

You do a good job. To the point a tactful. Remember, your not the one that made this a difficult conversation to have. It's only difficult cuz the ones that made it difficult aren't having it. Keep up the good work

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, that makes me feel better. Sadly I don't know if any of these companies will listen to me, sometimes it seems like all paint companies want is positive feedback and not someone to help identify problems. In the meantime at least artists can help each other stay informed. Happy painting :)

@FaerieDust

3 жыл бұрын

Yes to all of this. There's no blame on the person pointing out an issue, it's all one the people who actually caused it!

@kristiw.1823

3 жыл бұрын

Well said! It's infuriating that the companies with much more extensive resources aren't doing the most basic work to ensure their products is properly vetted.

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

@@kristiw.1823 costs them much less to check their own paint, for one thing 😂

@DAYbreaking_Ideas

3 жыл бұрын

Here here! Your doing is great job that really informs us. 💕

Oh no no no. Not me who just invested in a tube of this color. Why?! :( thank you so much for your work! We have to keep these companies accountable. They cannot continue selling to us whatever they put in the tube and on the packaging. Schmincke really disappointed me, it's not what I expect from a German company.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I'm very surprised by this too. Schmincke was the first to add it to their catalog in 2017 and has had the most time to perform tests. I hope that they will fix the mistake one day and label it correctly.

You've come up with the perfect video format in my opinion. The small paintings are detailed enough to keep me interested but still simple enough to really let the paint/pigment that you're showcasing stand out and reveal its unique qualities. Your level of research and knowledge is unmatched and you present it all in a way that is easy to understand.

Your work is so much more helpful than any tube or box of paint I've ever purchased! Thank you for your diligence on lightfastedness!

I did a 3 mo lightfast test on the white nights orange and it faded in that time, in mass tone. Not significantly, but faded none the less. I do not really use orange paint often, as I normally mix my own, so the orange just sits in my paint bin. The winsor and newton cadmium free colors, I take issue with. I feel like they are using people's fear of cad colors to sell subpar pigments as lightfast and then hiding behind proprietary labeling all while charging premium prices. That just rubs me the wrong way! Anyway, thank you for your continued dedication to lightfast testing. I use your database the most when looking at colors!

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

It's really sad that this pigment fades so quickly with such a good rating on all of these brands. I'm with you on the W&N Cadmium Free Colors.... that was infuriating and I had to re-write my speech to sound less angry. This whole thing rubbed me the wrong way!

@fidgetyhuman

3 жыл бұрын

I have to say that WN has to be my least preferable company to buy paint from now. As Kimberly had said in her WN video, they are incredibly expensive even for basic colors and don’t offer anything unique against their competition. Now with the issue with these cadmium free colors, it feels like the company is begging me not to buy from them again.

@waymire01

3 жыл бұрын

The only positive I can pull from the winsor newton situation is at least they didn't lie about the pigments.. unlike daniel smith. At least I knew going in I had no idea what was in the paint.. which is why I never bought them. Of course the lightfast rating is wrong too so it's a pale commendation.

Another great video! All things about lightfast testing no one ever tells you. I have previously thought to myself, something along the lines of, She's just one woman in her window, how can she be more accurate than companies with whole roofs and teams devoted to this as a job? Well, now I know! Thank you for doing this work and shame on these companies for NOT doing it! BTW, I seemed to have dodged a bullet with this particular pigment, tons of PO73, and PO48, but no PO64, I checked twice. :)

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Lol yeah, companies are a lot less organized and diligent about their testing than most people realize. It's sad how much I catch that they miss. I'm glad you dodged this bullet, I was SHOCKED when it fully disappeared as if I never painted it. Happy painting :)

I'm thankful that I personally don't own this color and I'm excited to hear that Golden's testing is so carefully done! They've been a favorite brand of mine and this news just adds to that.

Ugh, I recently sent some watercolour paintings to a friend in Australia...I think I used mostly light fast paints on them, but I'm probably going to send her a message to be wary of putting them in full sun. It shouldn't be a thing we have to do when we use paints marked 'lightfast'.

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

Good call on warning her. What a thoughtful gift! I am sure she loves them

@nancyloomis3046

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I think NOT putting ANY artwork in direct sunlight is a recommendation that I would offer for ANY artwork I sell or gift. We cannot possibly know or guarantee how each and every single color (especially for hue mixes) we use may or may not fade a little or a lot. And especially if the paint makers aren't giving us totally accurate information.

Really fascinating. You really broke down how all that is done and cataloged in a way I hadn't heard explained. Thanks. Something about cadmium and vermillion hues really appeal to me, which I've always thought was funny because the colors are naturally so toxic.

It's unfortunate that these companies continue to give false information. I hope that with artist's (like yourself) testing and sharing this information, that it will strongly encourage companies to step it up! You've definitely encouraged me to do my own lightfast testing, especially for those questionable colors. Thankyou for all that you do! 🙏🏻

a few days ago, I finished Lightfastness test (8 months south-side) for 54 white nights watercolors, I made two sets, one was outside the window and other behind doble-glass uv, pigments like PV3 (violet) or PO13 (golden) always has a color shift within 2 or 3 months (no matter where) inside or outside window, PG8 (green) slightly shifted, only happens in outside window, PR170:1 (carmine) slightly fades inside, faded far more on the outside test results from pigment PO64 (orange) were very interesting; in full application did not fade (outside or inside the window), however, the gradation test in the outside window shows clear sun worn-out was visibly faded and color shift, the PO64 gradations inside (protected by double glass) was hardly visible, it was noticeable very diluted (not faded but color shift from orange to peach) in the one single application PO64 is no light fast reliable as cadmium, quinacridones or earthtones, uv glass should be used to protect the color from shifting (if you have a house with double-glass, and you use PO64 more than for one glazed watercolor, I think it would be ok to hang out your artwork almost anywhere in your home) -

Thank you for your hard and time consuming work and for sharing your experiencies. I have White Nights PO64 in my travelling limited palette with PY150 (for yellow - oranges) and PR122 (reds, warm reds) etc. (totally 8 colours). I use it in my scetchbook, but it is useful to know about its problematic lightfastness. Thank you.

I really appreciate yours and a few other creators' work in this area! Thank you for the effort! I really just want as accurate info as possible from the companies and get frustrated when they don't provide that. Sometimes I feel like watercolours don't get taken seriously. There's no doubt that any pigment is less protected when it comes to lightfastness when it's suspended in gum Arabic compared to an acrylic polymer emulsion, for example. It really seems to me like we do need lightfastness tests especially made for watercolours. They do seem especially vulnerable. Love your videos!

That was an awesome video. Details are important. I am starting out for my pleasure and I want to use quality paint, so I began researching which paints to invest in. I really had no idea there was so much difference but in the end don't we all want the work we do to last and continue as vibrant as we intended. Thank you so much for taking the time to share.

Thank you so much for these videos, you’ve taught me so much and I feel like I’m learning more all the time! I’ve started doing lightfastness tests of all the colours I own, and was shocked to see that some of the colours I really liked just straight up disappeared from the paper 😅 it felt good to use the ones that were “safe” afterwards instead 😌

I don't particularly care about lightfastness, to be honest. I work in sketchbooks a lot, I use fugitive paints, it's just not an issue for me. If I like a paint I'll use it, regardless of permanence. I do, however, very much mind misleading or outright false advertising. I'd much rather the companies just didn't put any information on the labels at all, rather than mislead and lie about their products. That, at least, would be honest.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed about the false advertising, because these high ratings are the reason some artists justify the purchase. I still use fugitive colors for sketchbooks or personal works, but only when I know ahead of time that's the case. There's certain pigments like opera pink or green PG8 that every once in a while I just want to play with, fading potential be damned. I get personally offended though when it feels like I was lied to, accidentally misleading or not.

@Finkeldinken

3 жыл бұрын

Same here. It's the laziness and/or deliberate misleading that irks me.

Good for you that you're talking about this. I don't have time to do my own LF testing, so I do rely on the makers to give me accurate info. It's very disappointing when we find out they don't. In the race to sell, sell, sell, too many paint maker are simply not doing their homework. 😡

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I'm surprised that a big successful company like Schmincke (who also happens to talk about their carefulness regarding LF testing and posted images of their rooftop lightfast testing online) has had PO64 for 4 years now and not noticed. It's common that the people running paint companies don't actually know the nuances of testing to get accurate results. In the case of White Nights and Roman Szmal, they only recently added it and they likely thought someone else who "knew better" tested this pigment for them already. Sad for them and us that the pigment powder source advertises PO64 as BW7/LFI. Hopefully this kind of video will spark some better action, since so many artists are relying on them to be more accurate! Luckily there's lightfast alternatives for us to confidently use for selling original art. With or without the paint companies help, we'll figure it out as an art community. Happy painting :)

You are the greatest! I’m so glad you exist.

Thank you very much for this, Kimberly - I am not yet very experienced in watercolour and am really shocked by the testing deficiencies you've exposed in this particular video. In the UK, we have Trading Standards and Advertising authorities who could maybe challenge paint brands on these issues but don't know what is available to artists/customers in other countries. It seems that these testing standards are simply not fit for purpose! I have watched several of your videos now (recent subscriber) and am really impressed and very grateful for your time spent researching, demonstrating and explaining these issues.

Thank you for your diligence in testing these pigments and for sharing the results of your research so that we all benefit! Beautiful butterfly! I love the gold accents.

Thank you for all your hard work and knowledge. I am so grateful that you share your knowledge through KZread and your fascinating website!

‘The warm end of the spectrum absorbs more up light’. I just 💛 your channel. I learn So much. Thank you

Thank you for sharing this with us. It's important to know when the manufacturer rating conflicts with the reality. Great and informative video as always ☺️🙏

greetings! while the video is over a year old, i still wanted to say that i found this really interesting. its nothing that is important for me as i am merely creating art for myself and the process of it, but this kind of topic still fascinates me, thank you for the video and the great explanations! i felt like i learned alot after watching =)

Thanks Kim! I appreciate all the work you do, and I do my own lightfast tests too. I wish I’d seen this before I bought that tube of Saturn red, tho…. I’ve certainly come to realize that most testing should be taken with large grains of salt. Xenon lamp testing just gets so far, and that’s what most mfgs are using if they do testing, like Daniel Smith. And the ratings are for museum conditions, which are on a different planet than where we hang our artwork. Your point about looking at what other artists have used is the best one. I was lucky enough to see a Winslow Homer exhibit at the Freer Sackler 2 years ago - very rarely exhibited watercolors. So many had faded, but in others you could see the good pigments as vibrant as the day put down. That’s where I fell for PG18 Veridian. It’s also why I have great respect for and trust the traditional brands. They may not be as snazzy, but they have the grizzled experience. Still doesn’t stop me from buying the snazzy stuff tho, I’m a pigment nerd.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Gotta love PG18 and the old school gang of colors! I definitely like to try all pigments, fugitive or not, new or old... but I hate feeling misled about lightfastness. Yeah, I rolled my eyes reading about so much accelerated xenon lamp testing because it is not only more gentle and the "stopping at 100 years of museum lighting" amount of UV is laughable... but also it takes out the important bits of heat, humidity and air pollution/acidity/ph fluctuations in peoples home environments. Thanks for your input :)

Thank you so much for doing this testing for us. I check your website before buying new colors now.

Thanks ever so much for your work, your channel is a wealth of information! How sad though... Quite frustrating that companies don't provide accurate information about a crucial quality of their products, and that we as customers have to double check everything having already spent the money. I own the White Nights version, but thankfully I don't use oranges too much and not used it in any important works yet. It was so pretty... But off to the dump pile it'll go tomorrow. Back to good old boring cadmium orange it is then...

Thank you for the warning and your hard work

Yes, this was helpful! Thank you SO much for doing this in so much detail. I appreciate it!

This is very helpful I didn’t know about the Saturn read I just recently received a pan of that in the botanical special edition set by Schmincke so I’m surprised to hear that it is not light fast

Thank you for the warning! I just bought a set of White Night watercolors this week.

A gorgeous butterfly. I don’t know what pigment was used in an orange coloured pencil I have. In my test, it faded a lot even when applied thickly. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us about these paints.

This is really surprising, esp considering that Schminke, W and N, and Roman Szmal are so highly esteemed as brands, and Schminke in particular is so expensive. I'm just beginning with watercolor, and not really concerned with lightfastness now, as most of what I do is sketchbook or loose sheets that I save in a notebook (away from light). Still, good to know these things.

Thank you! I will listen to this in detail when I am not headed off to work lol. And will be following you from now on. I’ve noticed on Holbein, any watercolor name with the title “brilliant” in front is stated by company as one star. Which I was sorry to notice after I had bought a couple tubes. I love following artist tutorials on KZread, but don’t understand why they continue to use fugitive colors.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I've noticed that about Brilliant Holbein colors... Rembrandt does not usually provide the kind of bright and pastel colors that Holbein is known for. It was very surprising to see Rembrandt fail in providing a lightfast color because they are one of those companies that had a really boring stable catalog for a hundred years. I think they are trying to offer more modern and unique things in the last couple years (ie. glass glitter!) to help create excitement for their catalog. I honestly don't think any of these brands knew how fugitive PO64 was going to be. I suspect they all trusted a 3rd party rating. As for other artists using fugitives, I know that some may feel that it provides an effect they can't otherwise replicate. There are definitely some colors (particularly opera/neon ones) that we all realize just can't be replaced with a lightfast one... but there are definitely certain choices that surprise me because there are stable alternatives. I get a bit sad when I see the original paintings go up for sale with no warnings to the buyers. Thanks for stopping by! Happy painting :)

i inmediatelt subscribed. recently ive been improving in my watercolor skills and im more dedicsted into getting paints that wouldnt fade because i want to start hanging art at home... this is extremely useful thank you

Most of my paints are Daniel Smith. I have two M.Graham’s, two or three DaVinci and a few Jackson’s own brand. I’ll be doing my own lightfast tests from now on then. Thanks for the info 👍🏼

I am always truly grateful for your effort and thorough information about lightfastness test. I run the test myself but to me it's very exhausting and boring thing to do and aesthetically unpleasing to have papers taped on one of just a few windows in my flat all the time. I do it because I have to be responsible with what I offer and paint brands don't seem to feel that way. While I really appreciate fellow artists sharing information like yourself, I even feel a little angry with paint brands not being honest about one of the most basic information they should offer.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

It should not be our job to test these pigments properly, I think a lot of people will be upset. I hope that by pointing out problems, and telling the paint companies what we artists need and want from them, they will make better efforts in the future. Feel free to let me know if you want me to test a certain color for you, my windows are trashed anyway lol.

@yuikoh.9905

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate your kindness. I am sure your window looks like an artwork with so many colour index cards. I am also sure that paint companies are already aware of your channel and the precious database.

very well said. I appreciate your works. it's bec of you that made me curate a lightfast pigments on my pallete. I'm glad it wasn't the golden orange that I just got from Roman Szmal lol. keep up the good work!

Ugghhh! 🤨 Thank you! 😘 The butterfly is beautiful! 🦋

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Lol, yeah, pretty much the response I was expecting "UGH... GEE THANKS!" Thank you :D

@ChrissieNicely

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick Yep, I have the Schmincke Saturn Red. Such a huge disappointment in the manufacturer and brand I rely on... as you said in the video.

I’m currently running my own lightfast tests and my Schmincke paints are up for 7 months now. I only compare the masstone, but my Saturn Red still looks exactly the same, so I’m surprised that you noticed fading after a few months.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

It's the diluted that fades, there's nearly no problems with masstone. It's a good reason to test everything in tints or diluted washes, very different results. Let me know if you try again with it watered down, I'd love to hear how fast you notice a change.

@brigitteitg

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick I will start another trial soon which will definitely include diluted versions. Thanks for pointing it out, quite scary to think the colour can just disappear…

Thanks for the warning! Too bad we can't trust companies... Even if its negative I'd rather be warned before investing in an expensive paint. Good to see watercolour watered down tested as it's actually commonly used that way! Seems like they tested thick or masstone only and shrugged and said good enough. I wish we could trust the rating on the tube but instead we must trust fellow artists. I've mixed my own lightfast moonglow rather than purchasing the original and non lightfast tube. I've been collecting and mixing my own colours. If I get fugitive colours I want to Know they are fugitive and use them in sketchbooks or for prints not original hung art. I feel I can still sell original art with questionable lightfastness ONLY if I thoroughly warn them about fading issues.

Thanks for the great work you do.

OMG. It was my favorite color. I did so many commercial works with it. It is so bad news. I really need to do my own watercolor tests. Don't trust to art brands.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry, I'm glad I could help you find out now though. It is very bad news, the paint brands are not looking out for us properly!

Thank you for sharing this awesome video & info! While I am disappointed about the Orange, I'm much more bothered by what you said about the ASTM rating info. Companies can seriously just copy results from potentially 30 years ago? With how different each material, manufacturer or test can be, that is ABSURD. If you copy someone else's work in school, it's considered CHEATING & WRONG. Why do these companies think it's ok here!? Alright, rant complete. Marvelous video, and gorgeous artwork as always! I always love how you present information... hurt myself laughing at the toaster image at 6:12. So hilarious to me that they can give us a lightfast rating for watercolor paint based on how something performed as a household appliance!

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I giggled while making that toaster image, I’m so glad someone else got a chuckle out of it. It is completely bonkers that it’s allowed and worse - is common - to just copy established ratings. While I was on the topic of fading I figured it would be good to cover general lightfast testing procedures and problems. It’s so easy for things to get mislabeled in this chaos!

I don't sell originals so paint being fugitive is not a big deal for me, unless i paint something for the wall. If I was selling originals I would be extremely angry about paints sold as lightfast but were not. Making videos like this is extremely helpful and hopefully cause people to not but these paints making companies change (doubt that tho since they have gotten away with this for so long)

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I was very upset about this, as I try to make sure I sell originals that will not immediately fade. It would make me feel so guilty to know someone invested in my art, just to have the colors disappear so soon. I have high hopes for a couple of these companies. Roman Szmal is pretty new to the watercolor world and just didn't realize the problems with trusting others ratings (he wants to fix that). White Nights seems to care more and more about lightfastness recently... but we'll see if Schmincke and Rembrandt react (I'm not confident they'll even respond to me).

this makes it sound like making art is a losing battle, just creating something that will fade no matter what you do.

Oh no, you just confirmed the bad feelings I had about my saturn red.... I made quite a big painting with it :( Thank you for testing and sharing your results.

Thank you for your work! It's very important to understand if the colours are lightfast or not.

Well we always need to keep in mind lightfastness tests are done in museum conditions ,controlled temperature and light and not direct sunlight.And decent framers use UVA protective glass to protect artworks cos most people don’t have museum conditions in homes,so good to remind clients to frame with UVA glass if they frame it or just frame with UVA glass and no worries.. still cool to see you’re videos,experiments,still some paints change colour even with UVA glass or even in sketchbook over time and nothing to see with lightfastness just bad formulas,not decent pigments,reason I love you’re videos to see surprises paints give-absolutely loved you’re review on those Chinese granulating paints(supervision or something like that brand was named),you saved me ton of money,time and nerves and I just fallowed you’re advice and mixed my own using Brushos and granulating watercolours I had(used contrasting colours to get more contrasts and practically recreated all colours I wanted,so thanks a lot for that 💐 Grate Chanel 🍀

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, Hope this might help clear up any misunderstandings: Chemical manufacturers can test in special light boxes that help control heat, however they also secondarily test weatherfastness in normal sun heat and humidity scenarios. ASTM (the major authority for making ratings like "LFI-V" instead of independent Blue Wool numbers BW1-8) and large companies like Schmincke actually also DO run tests under real sunlight. Schmincke places paint swatches on the roof of their factory in a skyward facing glass box. ASTM LF ratings include results from outdoor tests done in the most sunny parts of the year in Arizona or Florida. Both masstone and diluted range swatches are outside in a clear box under the sun for about 3-4 months. These conditions are critical for more accurate real-world results. Golden, the maker of Qor watercolor, takes the average LF durability based on multiple tests performed both from machines AND outside direct sunlight. Museum conditions are not used for testing. It is just a term used for the lighting condition estimate of how long until a color fades (ie pb29 will not fade for 100 years in museum low light conditions). You are correct, our homes are not museum conditions, so colors will fade faster than they are advertised to last. Lightfast tests are not performed in museum conditions, but the test results are rated to survive a set amount of years in museum lighting. Lightfast tests are done many ways and ASTM ratings are not assigned based on one testing method alone. Unfortunately very few UVA glass frames are effective for the average user, as the cheap affordable ones don't offer much protection. There are museum quality framers that make glass with the ability to bend UV light away from art, but these are often very expensive. UV spray sealers offer very little to no protection and can actually result in color changes or yellowing over time. The only affordable solution is to use lightfast pigments to begin with so you don't have to worry about the sealer or frames. I have seen people who love to work with fugitive colors use pouring resin as a way to protect fugitive colors though (alcohol inks for instance covered in resin, a thick layer that bends the UV light before it can hit the fragile inks). That is a lot of work I'd only do if the medium doesn't offer lightfast pigments.

@ligaskirbauska8652

2 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick wow,thanks a lot for all that info,that was very educational and interesting to read.I had no idea lightfastness tests where run in soo many ways.. Well I totally agree with you manufacturing companies shouldn’t put higher rating that pigments and paints really are.And when we pay premium price we must receive product we don’t have to worry about over time.. As for resins and UVA sealants ,as I’m buy idea VIP level nail artist teacher,since tried those sealants on French nails I know they all yellow and alter colour,it’s like first day we put it on it makes the whites more like blue tint and adds that blue-purple tint,but in couple days those frenchies will be more yellow than if we wouldn’t use it,that yellowing is mostly that UVA sealant changing colour.Basic White gels and acrylics(resins)don’t yellow soo fast,it’s been really frustrating using those products on clients,cos buy idea we add product that promises to do something it does for day or two,we spend more money and client in 2-3 days is not happy,comes and wants it to be removed and prefers then basic French without any UVA.so yeah,from all resin,nail works I have done wouldn’t advise those products to use,idea is good but technology is not there yet to last even week on hands,so much less for years on artwork and yes they will alter colours and yellow soon..Sad about info on UVA glass,I was hopping glass I get is good glass and now I’m thinking I pay extra for not good protection and for it to work would need very expensive glass..so yeah..durable pigments is only choice then..thanks for guiding me back to basics and thanks for all info,as I’m not any scientist or specialist in pigments just self thought,I was just genuinely thinking UVA glass I get is doing work 🤦🏼‍♀️ now I know I’m not rich enough to get good glass that really works..so will keep eye on you’re Chanel and updates on those pigment lightfastness tests you run to chose better pigments-thanks a lot for work you do 💐

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

@@ligaskirbauska8652 That is so interesting about the UVA sealants for nails! Thank you for sharing your experience with me. Happy painting :)

@ligaskirbauska8652

2 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick Most materials for nails are same technology resins are,all very similar polymers.nail gels,stamping gels,nail products can be used in resin arts same UVA resin can be used to mix own gels too 😉 I make ton of own experiments,always checking how can mix things.worked for brands developing products and lines,during years used loads of mixed techniques,so really if you love resin arts,try out chameleon,magnetic nail polishes here and there 😉 can use stamping plates and stamping gels and colour like Vitrail glass effects,add sparkles with whatever you have,I love nail foils,cos they very skinny,many just stick,leave such a cool effects..well all nail art techniques also can go into resin art..You easy can make earrings or some necklaces look like you’re nail set or even if you’re not into wearing nail art,can wear that art on accessories and so on..so if you like to play with resin now and then don’t hesitate to get inspiration from nail art tutorials and materials and tools really.well hope it can inspire to experiment and enjoy all that too..I love to do and learn it all and just mix all I can,and learn from what comes out and how to problem shot and make it work,just love to invent new ways and experiments all together,so naturally have to love you’re Chanel and info you put out 😉💐🍀

Perhaps the paint manufacturers aren't doing their own tests and just copy lightfastness information from the supplier of the pigment, out of lazyness and/or cost reduction.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, many do just trust the lightfast info they get from 3rd parties... but also a lot of paint companies are run by business/marketing people and art fans, not pigment nerds. Even if they decide to test it later just to fact check, they very likely didn't realize they needed to be testing pigments diluted. Several brands only show their brand tests were done in thick masstone stripes. I hope one day they'll fix this!

@PaulaBean

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick Yes. And until that happens, the artists have to rely on their own research and testing. Thank you for that! Also, I was never concerned about lightfastness, but when the're pigments out there that fade so quickly it becomes an issue even for work that doesn't receive direct sunlight.

Thank you so much. I was going to complete my White Nights collection, but it seems I won't be getting the PO64. I already hav the peach, but I will put it in a separate palette with my fading colors.

Apology to any science enthusiasts, I had an absent minded speech slip up. I said the word "refract" again around 2:30 (I often think of that term when light changes direction/is reflected back at me). It should be "fluorescence" (PO64 will "fluoresce" under UV light). The pigment particles get excited under black light which causes them to have a glowing appearance. No major damage to the overall message, but I wanted to clarify.

Your work is precious and I highly recommend your videos and website to the fellow watercolour artists. For me as a beginer in the watercolour world this is valubale to know. All the companies want to make money that is for sure , but I thought that there are some ethics when you sell something to people. Recently I was looking to buy some paints from a private handmade brand from UK and want to support them but the P.R 177 is marked as AAA superlightfast and we know that it is not :). I will still purchase some paints from there but defenetly not that one :).

😱 That fading is so bad holy crap man, thank you for the warning! Man, when I was building my Schmincke palette I had really wanted to get the Saturn Red, boy did I dodge a bullet with that one...

Such a bummer. I love Schmincke's Saturn red and am not an artist... but if I paint something and put time into it - and my watercolour paintings are usually something I put in a frame and on a wall, just not in direct light - I don't want it to completely fade on me :/ I guess, I really have to think about replacing it on my palette 😖

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

It is a bummer since it's so very sensitive in pale washes. I was shocked to see those diluted strokes completely disappear. I had better luck with W&N transparent orange or Roman Szmal's aquarius orange (DPP/PO N/A) if you happen to look for a nice orange replacement.

@LunaBianca1805

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick I'll totally look for a replacement, I mean, I kinda know that a lot of watercolours are fugitive, but I explicitly chose the supposedly most lightfast ones from Schmincke's range to be on my palette. So having one colour that is supposed to be a 4 out of 5 stars in their rating system, feels real shitty - especially since eeing able to work with watered down, translucent washes of the colours is kind of the point of using watercolours 🙄 I'd be using my cheap-ass acrylics or gouache if I wanted to only ever paint with my colours at mass tone pigment load.... I mean, people are already pretty pissed with DS for not really using genuine mineral pigments only in their Primateks, couldn't companies just look at each other and learn from others' mistakes? They should know by now that not only professional artists but even the average spare-time amateur painter that invests a lot of time into creating something and probably giving it to friends and family members as presents care about colour stability and lightfastness. Especially if they invest their hard-earned money in artist grade paints and if those are labelled as highly lightfast!

Thank You Very Much!

Thank you!

Wow i just recently got saturn red by schminke, thank you for making these videos! Im sad about my favourite brands but I nerd to know these for my work, it educates me as to what to watch in my other mediums too. Thank you

You are amazing, your work is so helpful

Super useful and informative, thank you very much.

companies are much more likely to change if sales of fugitive colours simply fail to sell. So one way or another our opinions will be heard.

i've always found winsor and newton's cadmium free colors suspicious. i don't really care about lightfastness as all of my paintings stay in a sketchbook (at least i can enjoy opera rose, yay), but i hate it when companies mislead people.

I made a comment yesterday but after giving this some thought I was thinking you could use this color in a creative way as a revealing glaze over another vibrant color, for example, say you paint a fall scene using this color as the top layer and as it sits in the sunshine it slowly reveals spring flowers underneath as it fades. I'm sure it could be used by clever artists as a cover for something underneath... Just a thought 🤔

Thank you! I'm also so tired of buying paint that turns out not to be as advertised.

TY so much!

Tremendously informative. Thank you!

I really appreciate your thorough research Kimberly... Thank You so much! I feel that if these companies would be more honest in thier light fast testing and shared pigment information, they'd lose customers....

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile, they've lost customers because we're all learning their word is garbage

@waymire01

3 жыл бұрын

There are many who buy known fugitive pigments on purpose.. it's not an issue for work that will be reproduced digitally. I think they are doing more damage by not testing. I know it's has completely changed my buying habits knowing I can't be sure what I'm getting.

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

@@waymire01 I spent $600 on an original that had multiple fugitive pigments in it before I knew better. Kept it in a dark room and it still changed. That ALSO affects your buying habits. Shout out to Stephanie Law and her love affair with Aureolin and Alizarin. "Nothing performs like them" and nothing performs like them on a wall 🙃 Using fugitive pigments for prints is one thing, and I am totally down with it. Fact is, a LOT of artists don't care, sell them with no caution or warning and laugh their way to the bank. It's even more sad when people who are being careful to buy lightfast paints are being taken advantage of as well. Artists who care are getting burned, and consumers who trust us ALL are getting burned too.

@waymire01

3 жыл бұрын

@@annedavis3340 I just pointed out the issues with aureolin recently to a very popular YT/patreon artist who stated she had no idea.. but she put the tutorial out anyway not only on her channel but on her patreon even after she knew. It's not even necessary, she used it to mix browns and a glaze or two.. could have been any transparent yellow instead...but no mention whatsoever to her subscribers that it will ruin their painting. It's a shame, and it does affect everyone especially those who are in the business of selling either their work or their instruction.

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

@@waymire01 I really wish I felt surprised by this. Awful.

I never buy sets, but I did recently -- I bought a Schmincke square tin with PO 64 in it! Crap, I'd forgotten how terrible this one was. Thanks for reminding me. Bruce from Handprint suggests -- if you have no blue wool scale -- using real Alizarin as a control. Seems like you could use this one as a control too. Dang, I really need to get my lightfast tests going!!! Especially my Qor.

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

Oh no! I had bought several brands of PO64 before figuring this out, definitely a bummer to waste the money. The diluted range can be a decent indicator of about LFIII-IV. I agree, without a blue wool testing panel, it's definitely good to compare everything to Alizarin and Aureolin PY40 - if any of your other colors fade that bad it's fugitive for sure! I expect Qor to do very well, I haven't seen any notable fading with their colors. Golden is an amazing company with a lot of integrity, honesty and really open to communication with anyone who emails them. They have the best lab department I've ever communicated with (and I think I've emailed every paint company at some point lol).

@jennw6809

2 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick I think I might have a tendency to assume that newer pigments would be more lightfast, but I guess not!! I bought the set really for the tin, which is lovely and a great deal. I was already annoyed and ejected the PY3, now the orange has gotta go :-)

I've rewatched so many of your videos this evening. Car's outta the shop! I had days to "fun paint" and, while I don't even like reds that much (blues, umbers ❤️) the one I really love to paint with (skies, lighthouses, wildlife, mixtures for landscapes) is PR83. I just love that stuff. Do you have any thought as to why even _Daniel Smith_ who concocts nearly every kind of paint out there can't come up with a "stable" PR83 alternative. 😭 But yes please keep us up to date on the lightfast tests. My husband doesn't appreciate "his" house (it's "ours") having the skylights taped with "papers" so your work is very much appreciated. Now that Schminke's got (?) 180 paints with the super-granulatings included, I have a suspicion that they make up different PB29s and Br11s &c to chuck in some of those super-granulatings. And they're SO expensive (though I don't think I'll regret the galaxy pink at all), I've decided to stop buying more of them until at least the latest lots (Shire, etc) have been hanging a year in someone's window. 😄👍

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

Oh man, I used to have a house with sky lights, but the roof started leaking and they just roofing tiled right over them! I forgot how much of a pain those could be for shining onto art in the home. So Daniel Smith doesn't make any pigments, they just buy pigments from chemical and mining companies to mix with gum arabic into paints. The problem is chemically reds are very hard to make strong enough to withstand the sun's UV because red as a color absorbs the most amount of UV, actively breaking down the molecules (effectively bleaching them, as the color disappears on a LF test). There's a few chemical groups that do quite well - cadmiums, quins and pyrrols. There are a couple PV19 versions that come very close to imitating PR83 (see davinci permanent alizarin, it's like PR177 but much more LF).

Hi I read a lot on your blog, and learnt so much. Thank you. Btw Have you tested po71 schmincke transparent orange ?

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I'm currently running tests for over a thousand colors, including schmincke's full catalog. No other brand of PO71 has been flagged for unusual fading as of yet. I'll make a video for Schmincke's 140 color results as soon as I'm ready to go over the results. If you're ever curious about which pages of www.kimcrick.com recently got a review or lightfast test update, I make update announcement posts every couple weeks at www.patreon.com/KimberlyCrickArt (free, public view posts that can be viewed by periodically checking or following to get notified). Happy painting :)

I'm curious if there is a fixative or sealer that you have yet to try, (or anyone reading this) or something else you would recommend, and would uv glass help stop fading? I'm reading a lot of these comments and I'm also new to watercolor so I appreciate this video because I often thought what if I sell something and it fades and this has been very helpful.

Does anyone know of a deep dark very cool red comparable to pr177 that IS actually very lightfast? PR254 isn't ever cool enough, pr264 is too opaque, the Perylene red and Perylene dark reds I have really aren't dark at all, and pr209,and 206 in cooler red hues aren't as strong or intense as anthraquinoid and I'm having a hard time finding a closely comparable red. On a separate note, I wonder what happens to Daniel Smith's "Permanent" Alizarin Crimson as it uses pr177 and I know of a few professional artists that use it frequently. Im guessing it gets much warmer as the anthraquinoid fades away. Such a hard pill to swallow how dishonest basically all the brands have been. Careless or dishonest but either way it sucks. I've done a 30x40inch watercolor and while back and I can't remember now if I used Saturn red or pyrrole orange red shade and I'm hoping to god right now it was the ladder.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I've been using a mixture, W&Newton's Permanent Alizarin since they used a more stable PV19/PR206 combo instead of PR177. I understand not being happy with the alternatives though, none of the other reds - especially single pigments - are quite right. I'll keep looking into it, if I figure out the perfect solution I'll make a video about it. DS does get warmer as it fades. I hope your painting was pyrrole orange too!!!

@StrawberryLegacy

3 жыл бұрын

Have you tried PR187? :)

@hannahthufvesson

3 жыл бұрын

Both PR187 and DS Permanent Alizarin Crimson become duller. I like the Schminke Permanent Carmine (PV19), mixed with White Nights Venice Purple (PR179) when I want it slightly warmer.

@Nik.66

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick thanks so much for the reply :) I actually just found a small tube I have of the WN perm Alizarin, swatched it, and you're right, it's definitely the closest match Ive seen. I'll be using that one a lot more now! I'm so glad you did these videos because I had fallen in love with anthraquinoid red a few months before you're video about it/moonglow and I'm just so glad I found your video before I used it in many more paintings! Thank you on behalf of all the future art your channel will be saving!!

@Nik.66

3 жыл бұрын

@@StrawberryLegacy I have that one, but only by Turners watercolor and it has a bit of a granulation in the masstone, I know winsornewton did a watercolor called "sanguine" red as a special collection of something years ago that was pr187 and I've been searching online and stores for while now trying to find it to try out

Thank you for the info 🙌

Its a shame that it is such a beautiful colour that cannot be retained :(

I love buying special edition schmincke but most are Academy paints. When I look at them, most seem the same as the professional grade. Is there a difference in just some? Like lemon, Ultra marine, may green I can't tell the difference at all. Only Carmine seems slightly less pigmented but layers are available still.

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

For the most part many of the colors between academy and pro will look the same if they are using the same pigment code numbers. The main difference is two things: 1) flow/disperse in horadam line is increased slightly in wet washes due to the addition of ox gall, where the academy is vegan and doesnt have that additive. 2) the academy has a slightly lower pigment load to higher binder ratio, so you may find that you run out of that pan a little quicker than the pro version. Happy painting :)

Your question about whether testing is done only with masstones or also with dilute washes is important. I know that QoR is committed to testing using ASTM standards; to quote them: "... only ASTM Standards are peer reviewed by a broad group of manufacturers, scientists, and other consultants and experts in the field, and only approved and published after substantial testing can confirm that the results are reliable and repeatable." (This is in reference to how they do their own testing, which they submit to ASTM, and why they don't put much stock in other, non-ASTM ratings that some paint companies report on their labels. [See their Just Paint article from 2015.]) They also make the point that ASTM testing is separate for different media (watercolor, acrylic, etc.) which is good. But this doesn't answer the question about masstone versus washes. I don't know what the ASTM standards are for washes versus masstones. Of all the brands, I trust QoR/Golden the most on technical issues like lightfastness by far the most, but there are still questions to be answered, of course. The testing done by individual artists like you is an invaluable addition to the standard testing (and, sometimes, wildly non-standard "testing") done by manufacturers. (Some companies just seem to make things up. I forget the brand, but one seemingly reputable brand listed a *genuine indigo* watercolor with the highest lightfast rating - so I knew to not trust any of their ratings!)

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

That highly rated indigo brand was probably Maimeri Blu from Italy. Though even ShinHan rates it ** (2/3 stars) and I really hate the 3 star system as it doesn't properly convey ratings, leading people to only really take note of no/1 star colors as fugitive. ASTM does require diluted tint testing, I think it was somewhere around 40% reflectivity based on the original color strength. I bet it's error prone regarding the samples they receive from paint suppliers though. Some pigment powder suppliers do it as a 1:10 ratio (often paint:white tint) though golden/qor will go beyond that and test their paints all the way down to 1:20 and properly dilute watercolors with water. Unfortunately there are many manufacturers that have copied ratings from old acrylic or oil tests for their watercolor products. There's times where only one "official" test was ever done for a certain pigment, maybe 30 years ago using different chemical production methods and that sole rating gets copy pasted over and over. It's so sad that many paint companies who make so much money from us artists aren't doing the basic testing you could do on a window. They could just spend $20 on a blue wool panel and take one single day of their time to swatch all their paints both diluted and full strength to verify their BW ratings. Why that hasn't become common practice for supposedly "professional" grade products is beyond me.

I had a incident last winter where i thought my dog had eaten some of my daniel smith paint. I spent the day franticly calling the national pet poison hotline ($80 a case) and daniel smith with my vet doing the same. Despite many attempts on our side to call and email for the list of ingredients in that particular paint the company never responded. Luckily it turns out my dog had brought the watercolor half pan into her den, but had never ‘sampled’ it. She was okay! I still haven’t forgiven DS though for not responding though. 😒

Great, I just found out that my Aquarius Brilliant Orange (PO 67,) despite Szmal rating it BW 8/7 is only marginally lightfast ;/

Thank you

Dishonesty is rampant amongst manufacturers. I hate that Daniel Smith claims that Rhodanite is lightfast which may or may not be true since no one can tell if it fades because the pigment oxidizes and turns brown. Sure, it may or may not fade, but most artists would be aghast to think that the pretty red color they paint with will become a dirty brown in time. I also think that there are a lot of reporting ATSM ratings for the color in oil paint, and choosing to ignore ATSM in watercolor. Many pigments are far more lightfast in oil than watercolor where there is no protection from the binder. I actually prefer British Woolscale ratings as it more clearly shows pigment performance. in a more granular way than the relatively blunt ATSM methodology.

Disappointed in Schminke. It's one of those companies you really hoped went out of their way to do the basics like extensive LF testing, especially when their color names are nearly inscrutable. I love your LF testing videos. I'm 7 months in and was gifted paints to start my 'covid hobby', and cringe looking at some of my earlier sketchbooks (color shifting). I put too much time and effort into painting to drop $15+ on a tube of trash. It's a lot of effort for me, anyway. Yes I have fun painting (mostly), but it's NOT fun looking at some personal favorites as they hang and wonder if/when they will turn into a garish nightmare. So I'm very happy to see videos like this so I can better sort my palettes.

@MelanCholy2001

3 жыл бұрын

@UCaPO49_gA_FNdklAUEvbi_g Oh, I'd rather know about PO64: it gets a sort of "automatic pass" for lightfastness because it's a "benzimidazolone" - on handprint, that name gets a stamp of approval, and on artiscreation PO64 is named with the relatively high lightfastness. I appreciate the warnings. I shouldn't just say Schminke, either: White Nights is becoming rather popular, and really there's no excuse for any manufacturer to "just assume" a pigment's LF. You did good!

I would like to note, when your sound volume is rather low, like in this video, the ads inbetween - esp. those with music - are so loud in comparison, that it feels at least twice as enerving. as I don't use adblockers, and don't want to use them (to support), thisi something that I like to mention, when it happens.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you I had no idea!

@nursen2106

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick I assumed that. just watching other videos of yours now. interesting content

I think this one is slightly reactive to black light

I have a sample of DCC PO64 pure dry pigment and it does NOT fluoresce under UV or black light. That would indicate other adulterants or brighteners in paint formulas. Binders can also be a major factor in the lightfastness of pigments. In their TDS the pigment is advertised as having excellent lightfastness and weather fastness in full strength but also drops to "poor" weather fastness in light tints. It does not address the lightfastness in the light tint. This could indicate to me the pigment is suffering from the long term heat and environmental factors of your testing rather than solely the UV light exposure. Hence, the pigment would perform well in a controlled xenon arc testing used by artists paint manufacturers that do not factor in the heat and humidity. So the pigment could also be lightfast just on the wall of an air conditioned room under glass as is the preferred method of presenting watercolor works in museums. Watercolor being the least protective medium, PO64 would seem to be one of the pigments that are more lightfast in much more protective and enveloping binders as oil or acrylic the "seal" the pigment off more so from the environment beyond UV. For example, Golden pulled PY3 from their acrylic lines while leaving it in their Williamsburg oils as the moderns productions of PY3 performs to an acceptable level in oil, while not so in acrylic, which it used to. I will be testing my PO64 in oil and report back on my results in a year. :-)

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

I have tested this pigment in direct and indirect light (all of my tests complete multiple durations in both shady and sunlit window environments). Both have faded with or without heat. All are tested on acid free cotton watercolor paper with spacers away from glass to be certain no condensation touches the samples. Indirect light tests are in a temperature controlled climate with low indoor humidity. Diluted fading in any medium means this pigment should not be labeled as lightfast, even if it's more stable in masstone. The fluorescent effect is very subtle and may vary by powder supplier rather than paint formula. While the chemical manufacturer for these samples may be the same for all of these brands to account for some level of fluorescent activity, it is extremely unlikely that these brands that don't typically add any brighteners to their paints suddenly decided to do so for this one color. I'd be very interested in how the tints and glazes for your oil paint turn out!

@FIRTHDESIGN

2 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick Well, I had previously written a reply but apparently it got lost somehow. Anyways, It does seem this pigment is not suitable for watercolor paints, glaringly so, however it is quite curious that it would pass so many manufacturers QC to make it into their lines. I do hold Schmincke in particularly high regard for their testing and products and even they approved it. Have any of the manufactures replied to these poor results?

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

@@FIRTHDESIGN Sometimes KZreads spam filter is too aggressive, comments get automatically deleted if they have capitalized words, links to external site, emojis and key words - who knows lol. You might be surprised to find that most companies do not actually do their own LF testing, but rather rely on the manufacturer of the pigment to supply them with a blue wool rating. This is sometimes performed improperly, not up to ASTM standards, for all mediums and diluted ranges. For instance Roman Szmal was very upset to find this out about PO64 because he hadn't done any of his own tests, but was mislead by the chemical company. Schmincke, Sennelier and Daniel Smith all provide copy paste ratings from ASTM or pigment sources and only Schmincke double checks paint swatches on their roof in masstone. Since PO64 doesn't have an obvious problem in masstone for many months, it's likely they just never discovered the diluted issue before offering paints with a high rating.

@FIRTHDESIGN

2 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick no, Schmincke does independent testing in an xenon arc test. As well Astm standards for watercolor are to test in a diluted wash as well. I would contact them for further explanation. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qKGuq82BY7Lbk8Y.html

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

@@FIRTHDESIGN It is in that video that shows they are only testing in masstone, there's not a single diluted range swatch on that rooftop testing display. There's simply no way they could have tested this diluted and still rated it highly, though I understand brand loyalty and it's no fun when someone points out that your favorite brand made a mistake. I did not say they used ASTM standards, plainly they did not. They more likely copied the manufacturer blue wool scale rating and only verified it in masstone. There's no other good explanation for why they missed this problem, as it fades very quickly when diluted.

Are you aware of any convenience colors sold with PO64?

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

As of right now the only one I know of is Peach, a pastel tint mixed with PW6 from White Nights.

I guess Saturn Red will be relegated exclusively to my sketchbook from now on!

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

If we had bought it with that usage in mind it wouldn't feel so bad to say that... but knowing it could disappear in washes doesn't exactly motivate me to create masterpieces with it to hang on my wall lol :)

I have Saturn red. Not one I use at all…when I got it in the limited edition tin…meh, really…

Hi Mijiello mission gold is fungitive?

@KimberlyCrick

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think Mission Gold offers PO64, but they do have about a dozen or so fugitive colors in their catalog. Most of them are labeled with low stars on their color charts.

What would be an alternative to PO64, would any other orange pigment be an alternative such as PO20 PO34 PO36 PO43 PO59 PO61 PO62 PO65 PO67 PO71 PO73 PO107. I don't know why they label aureloin, Prussian blue, anthraquinone red, as lightfast as well when they are fugitive. If you love rose of ultramarine, try using Ultramarine violet and quinacridone magenta PV15 PR122 as the colour has a separation

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Avoid PO34, it's fugitive as well. I'm not a big fan of PO43 since it darkens/has a hue shift. I really love Cadmium Orange PO20 (or combinations of cad yellow+red when brands make orange from py35+pr108)... PO107/DPP (W&Newton Transparent Orange or Roman Szmal's Aquarius Orange) is my favorite orange. I use it for the butterfly in the video. You've got some freedom though if you don't mind extremely minor LFII fading since PO71/73 have a lot less fading than the really bad oranges like PO64 and PO13 which fade way too fast.

and if we put a fixative ? do we still get the same problem ? thanks

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

Krylon uv spray is terrible and still resulted in fading just a little later, it also changed several colors in my paintings so I no longer use it. Golden makes a good varnish and gel, but honestly you run the risk of completely ruining watercolors if using varnish so it's better to just use lightfast pigments to start. If using acrylic it has to be a pretty thick final coat or resin to provide good protection.

@knowthyselfandyoullknowthe8216

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick thank you

@FaerieDust

3 жыл бұрын

You're probably better off framing your art behind UV protective glass, but I don't know how effective that actually is tbh

Golden gets my money because I don't make enough to waste it, even if I'm not a professional artist.

I wonder if everyone will try to ruin these companies for false advertising like they did Daniel Smith recently? Or is there a double standard? It will be interesting to see.

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

I really hope some artists complain to all the companies to bring more attention to the problem. As an individual alone I'm pretty easy to ignore lol. Not to ruin them though, but because it would be good for any brand to listen to feedback. It'll give them the opportunity to show they care to fix errors that affect their customers. Particularly lightfast problems like this that can hurt professional artists reputations who frequently sell their work. We never know if the client intends to hang it on a wall in a potentially bright environment (like office buildings). They could still sell the color, just re-evaluate the rating so only the people who don't mind it fading buy it.

@waymire01

3 жыл бұрын

I have no issue blasting any company that lies to me and steals my money by selling me product that is not as represented. Daniel Smith has not only ignored everything they have done (multiple colors with false pigments, multiple colors with false lightfastness, and undisclosed fugitive additives and toxic ingredients) they have blatantly lied after the fact and attacked or disparaged anyone who has asked for change. Despicable company. I wish the backlash had more of an effect than it did.

@loveandlife4222

3 жыл бұрын

Waymire 01 - while I respect that you have your own opinion, that is not what my statement and question to Kimberly said. You changed it to blast Daniel Smith when this video isn’t about Daniel Smith as much as the other watercolor companies she mentioned. But you confirmed my thoughts - nobody really gets as angry at the other companies, but if it’s Daniel Smith people have a lot to say. Like I said, there is a double standard. All companies should be held accountable including Daniel Smith.

@waymire01

3 жыл бұрын

@@loveandlife4222 YOU are the one who brought up Daniel Smith, not me. Ridiculous to accuse me of twisting the narrative when you used them as a direct comparison. I also clearly stated any company should be held responsible for their actions. This video is clearly addressing failures from other companies, yet you are somehow still finding a way to paint DS as a victim. In my case almost half my paint collection was affected by DS's lies.. so yeah.. not quite the same thing as one pigment from another company. If I had purchased the entire new line from White Nights which is filled with falsely labelled fugitive colors I would be just as angry.

Hi ! I think I posted recently a comment and is not here, maybe I didn't posted it at teh end, maybe you deleted it (?) or maybe was deleted automatically because I included a link to a KZread channel (not mine). You allow to insert links in comments ? If not, I'll not do it again, of course, Ups ! Hehehe ! :D Cheers !

@KimberlyCrick

3 жыл бұрын

You can try writing a new comment without the link and just type a creator name or video title you're trying to tell me about. I don't even see any notices of another comment from you and can't see my own response about not deleting comments from 5 minutes ago. Sigh, stupid s p a m filter

@brainfornothing

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick With your permission, I'm gonna write this comment and another one with a link, to test if is that. You don't need to do anything, I don't want to bother you with this, I'll check later if my comment is deleted :)

@brainfornothing

3 жыл бұрын

@@KimberlyCrick OK, this is the link I posted recently, because maybe you are interested, maybe you even know this guy already : [ kzread.infovideos ]. We'll see if is deleted :)

The only options for Artist is *never* to promise a buyer that the art being sold is lightfast. The buyer buys the art for the joy of the art it brings to them *knowing* that it may not be lightfast. As for the lying producers of these high priced supposedly *lightfast* art supplies, call them on their lies: *Stop buying their lies and products. GOD BLESS*

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

You should still TRY to use lightfast pigments on work you sell. I bought a piece from Stephanie Law, and only LATER learned precisely what paints she likes working with. I am STILL mad. I kept it in a dark room and that hasn't been enough.

@annedavis3340

3 жыл бұрын

People aren't going to keep buying watercolors if we ALL don't do better. I've already seen them dismissed many times by buyers as "ALL fugitive" which is a giant stigma for fine artists who want to sell their works. If we all don't do better, we, and those who come after us, won't be able to sell anything but prints

saturn red was the first professional watercolour paint i bought for my first (and main) palette 🥲gonna replace it, thank you!

@KimberlyCrick

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry for the bad news on PO64, but I'm glad to help. Happy painting :)