I liked when jimmy showed us the difference between pitching from a windup and from a stretch!

@macblastoff7700

8 ай бұрын

All kinds of guys would post this at half the length and say "Look at this guy, he fell down in front of XX,XXX fans." Not Jomboy. He takes us through the inning to contrast the pitcher's performance before runners on base, with runners on base, and then the root cause of the problem. So love not only the what but the why.

@icefalcon2243

8 ай бұрын

Good point . I learned so much from this video

@fang_shi_tong

8 ай бұрын

Fabulous explainer! I’ve been watching baseball for years, but never understood the difference between the stretch and the wind up. Thank you!

@kyuka67

8 ай бұрын

Who tf is Jimmy

@jacrispy8008

8 ай бұрын

@@kyuka67No way you’re serious

"Hey whatever you do just don't fall down and throw the ball away mid wind up" and then he fell down and threw the ball away mid wind up..I died jomboy is literally the best and funniest sports commentator out there.

The fact that they let him on the mound after the first wild pitch is beyond belief.

@MrJack-nd7hc

8 ай бұрын

It’s despicable really, he damn well could’ve thrown out his arm, he was nervous out there on the mound, the coaching staff should’ve recognized that, he just didn’t want to acknowledge it out loud, due of embarrassment

@spanzotab

8 ай бұрын

@@MrJack-nd7hc Hard to fault the staff for taking the man at his word

@brentholmes5412

8 ай бұрын

This is the state of the royals pitching coaching since the WS. Absolute trash.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

They must've thought he was channeling Mitch Williams.

@Scoots1994

8 ай бұрын

Nah, he's an adult and he said he was good. What he should have done is say that he's having a problem with the mound.

This right here shows you the huge difference in why its important to have certain managers in your organization. Now a good manager isnt gonna let his rookie pitcher tell Him "Im good Im good" after he just fell on the mound. Hes gonna go out there and see wtf is wrong with the pitcher or whats wrong with the mound. Either way theres no way the rook gets to make that decision for the team. Thats not showing the rook up. Its trying to secure the win

@Lank2thepast

8 ай бұрын

Say rook one more time

@PopOutPaulie

8 ай бұрын

@@Lank2thepast Haha

@lrut5274

8 ай бұрын

already had a mound visit

@Josh.WDW.

8 ай бұрын

But you can go out to check for injury. Traded for this young Starter, don't want him trying to 'tough it out'. If you pitch with your back or legs hurt you can really f**ck up your shoulder and possibly cause an injury requiring surgery.

@PopOutPaulie

8 ай бұрын

@@Josh.WDW. I swear I thought I had responded with the same thing but I guess it didn't post. You're 100% right. They still had a injury visit and it was definitely time to use it.

When this happened, I turned to my gf and said, “Can’t wait to see this on Jomboy.”

@sethhull881

8 ай бұрын

I'm glad we're at the point that when we see something, our first thought is "Can't wait to see Jomboy cover this." And will be right a lot of the time. Lol

@raynb0w6

8 ай бұрын

there was one time me and my dad said that to each other and jomboy never covered it 😭

@willionaire73

8 ай бұрын

Yes!!! Was watching this live and I’m like: Yup, this is going to be on Jomboy 😂

@Blueshirt38

8 ай бұрын

Most surprising part of this is 54 people watching a KC - TOR game.

@Thisisbailie

8 ай бұрын

​@@Blueshirt38blue jays are only one of the most popular teams in mlb but go on.

I think it turned from a physical to mental thing quite quickly.

@drxp6544

8 ай бұрын

Yep definitely had a mini case of the yips

If you start feeling the mound is a foot taller than it was before, it is definitely time to come out. Pretty sure they didn't add a bunch of dirt mid game. Unless there is a sinkhole under the rubber and that is sinking.

it was really sad seeing a 20+ scoreless inning streak go away like this

@138senomar

8 ай бұрын

True but it made for an excellent, excellent breakdown though

I was hoping for a Mark Fidrych reference but I think Jimmy’s right about the fatigue. Rest easy Bird.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

I thought about him, too. The Bird would've done some extra mound grooming in order to get the mound feeling right. The grounds crew had come out right before the pitch sequence in this video, and probably messed up what he was getting used to out there.

Was listening to this on the radio as a Jays fan and was super confused by this sequence, was fully expecting him to get pulled after walking 2, but this was a whole nother level of wtf is going on here? Seeing this helps clear up what happened, highlights didn't show nuances like his foot getting caught on the mound. Keep it up!

@Apollo55_

8 ай бұрын

What is this 2008? Who's listening to anything on the radio anymore. That was your first problem.

@martelkapo

8 ай бұрын

@@Apollo55_ how else does someone catch a game while driving or working?? Even a quick Google search shows that radio listenership for MLB is up this year lol

@redngold3005

8 ай бұрын

@@Apollo55_ Yeah, it's not like people still drive cars or anything.

@Apollo55_

8 ай бұрын

@@redngold3005 Yeah? Wow I didn't know. Did you know that car dealers report 80% of people are insisting on having Android auto and Apple car play in their vehicles? No radio on there. And having the radio on in your car and actually listening to it are 2 totally different things.

@malcolmsvensson6585

8 ай бұрын

@@Apollo55_ Wanting Android Auto / Apple Car Play is not the same as never using your radio. If I want to listen to music I want to listen to my music rather than what a station decides I should listen to, but I'm happy to turn on the radio to listen to a game or other talk radio broadcast.

Jomboy always has the highlights I’m looking for.

Great breakdown, especially the side-by-side of windup vs stretch.

I would have taken him out after the first time he fell down. He was going to be thinking about falling with every pitch after that. Young starting pitchers are too valuable, to be messing around with them at this time in the season. Protect him him for the future.

@andrewroberts7428

8 ай бұрын

good learning moment tho, coming at a relatively inconsequential time

@mercster

8 ай бұрын

Alternatively, you set a bad precedent. Young players also need to learn to work their way back after an issue.

@Neotenico

8 ай бұрын

@@mercster But when the issue involves him rolling his ankle during the delivery like that, you have to prioritize the kid's health over training good mental. That's something that can be developed over multiple games (games that he'll miss if he sprains his ankle).

@mercster

8 ай бұрын

@@Neotenico Fair enough... I'm not saying the decision made was right or wrong, just... there's several considerations.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

They could've at least done an injury check and have the ump allow a practice throw or two in order to get comfortable again after the first fall. If something about the mound didn't look or feel right, the grounds crew can come out and check on it. In any case, I agree that something needed to be done after the first fall.

I'm a Jays fan and this was wild and tough to see! Ragans was destroying the Blue Jays until this insane sequence of events!

@mikero14_gaming

8 ай бұрын

They tied it 2-2 with 0 hits lmao, the crowd was going insane

The young man has a good arm, 98 mph fastball 👍🏻 I think you are correct, he was getting tired. Looked like he was throwing a good game. Still threw a good game.

I played this entire clip back in slow mo a few times. There are a bunch of different things going on here. The first thing I noticed were flaws and inconsistencies in Ragans' mechanics. His pitch count was getting up there, but he was still lighting up the gun in the high 90s. Jimmy noted how Ragans looked at the ground but didn't offer an explanation for why he did that. Ragans was looking at his landing spot (the spot where his front foot lands as he strides toward the plate). It's awfully tough to be accurate if you are trying to throw to the ball the same way but from a different spot every time, or every other time. When a pitcher has sound mechanics, his stride foot will land in the same exact spot on the mound no matter which pitch he throws, no matter if he's in the windup or the stretch. The stretch is simply an abbreviated version of the windup. A pitcher goes to the stretch with runners on base so he can be quicker to the plate. Some guys only pitch out of the stretch because it's easier to stay balanced and keep all of the other mechanics under control when you pitch from the stretch. Less moving parts. Even if the pitcher mixes in a slide step out of the stretch, he should still land in the same spot. Ironically, the first time Ragans gave the ground a dirty look was after his best pitch of the inning. The pitch was out of the zone, but his fundamentals were sound. The pitch was down, and the movement was sharp and late in the zone. The action he got from this pitch was due to his posture and where his arm and body weight were at the release point. Ragans didn't like it because the indentation at the bottom of the hill where he normally lands was probably a little deeper than it was in prior innings. Which is why he kicks some dirt into it. The last thing I noticed is where Ragans was located on the slab. When Ragans winds up he slightly slides his left foot (plant foot) backward on the slab before he lifts, strides, and fires. He wasn't adjusting for this slight relocation when pitching from the stretch. Maybe it was because his landing hole was compromised. Maybe it was because he, and his pitching coach, failed to recognize this tiny important detail. Subconsciously his body noticed it though, and we see what happens when the body and mind are not on the page in this breakdown. And people think baseball is a simple easy game. LOL

My man got tired carrying the Royals pitching staff

My dad sometimes helps maintain and setup a AA baseball field and it's kind of crazy how precise they have to be in every aspect of the field. The Pitcher's mound is the most important, but also the hardest to get exactly right, and its important to get it right because the pitchers are used to a very spectific geometry. IDK if thats the case here, but you gotta know the field crew is going to be triple checking their mounds for the next couple weeks at least.

@Eh-ot4vz

8 ай бұрын

The guy threw 5+ excellent innings from the same mound. Every other pitcher had no issues either. To me it's pretty obvious that he was tired and should likely have been pulled after the first wild pitch, if not sooner.

@feelincrispy7053

8 ай бұрын

@@Eh-ot4vzalright alright you didn’t have pull his pants down and spank him. He just wanted to give his dad a shout out and that’s fair lol

@schwamforfreedom

8 ай бұрын

@@Eh-ot4vz None of that means that the mound is to specification. Is this the first time he's ever been tired pitching? Probably not, but he probably does get closer to the mound than other pitchers and is the first to have problems if the mound is out of spec. Could have been just fatigue or something else but other pitchers not having problems just as easily be a difference of mechanics, not lack of fatigue.

@benjaminwirth1208

8 ай бұрын

If the mound wasn’t watered correctly there could’ve been dry clay chunks at the bottom. Might be indicated by the way he’s kicking the dirt around his landing spot. Sometimes the metal cleats can’t break through it.

@AEMoreira81

8 ай бұрын

Interesting that you mention that. In MLB's minor league realignment, that is a large reason why the Yankees moved their AA affiliation from Trenton to a then-independent Somerset; the Trenton field is horrible while the Somerset field is pristine.

Always appreciate your explanations for us non-American sports fans watching these baseball videos out of curiosity.

To give some context, which Jomboy kinda alludes to, Ragans was pitching an absolute gem and making the Blue Jays look clueless, this came from absolutely nowhere. I don't think the Royals had anyone even warming up, as it seemed like he'd finish the 6th with ease.

Speaking of pitching from the stretch: I would love a video analyzing how pitchers do from the stretch vs windup. I wonder which pitchers have the most and least drastic differences 🧐

Sometimes as a coach/ parent you have to do things the player/child doesn’t want. You know what’s best for them, but more as a coach for the team. Doesn’t matter what they say they can do, you can see as a coach when you need to step in.

Imagine having your player insist that he's fine, you trust him because hey he's been a great asset to the team so far and you don't want to show him up, and then he throws a couple more wild pitches and another dolphin dive just to really make you look like a fool

I appreciate the explanation of difference between "pitching from the windup" and "from the stretch". If you did a video on that, it would be great. I never understood that before.

Fatigue sounds reasonable. Very weird though

Middle and right on the last segment show how pro these guys are. Such a perfectly mirrored motion. Untold thousands of reps to get there. Even the worst of MLB (mostly) are artists at this.

I’ve been waiting for this Breakdown all week. The second I saw this I requested it to be made into a breakdown, now I’m super glad it is! Well done as always Jomboy

The grounds crew at Rogers Centre come out to quickly groom the field every five innings, which would've been right before the pitch sequence we see in this video. I don't know how much they smooth and fill in on the mound, though. Divots, grooves, and the landing spot could've all been altered right before the pitch sequence we see in this video.

@rustylee1836

8 ай бұрын

Very interesting! It still makes sense that it was fatigue some (he's been a reliever so shouldn't be throwing over a hundred pitches when he's still throwing 98mph) but a pitcher's mental state and mechanics can definitely be thrown off by a change like that!

Haha. "Footage" 😂

"Wild thing, you walk everything"

I forget who it was but there used to be a manager who always sent his pitching coach out to pull the pitcher. He was afraid if he went out himself the pitcher might talk him out of it but he knew that if he ordered the pitching coach to do it, the pitching coach wasn't going to come back to the dugout and say "he wants to know if he can stay in."

@paulazmudzinski9225

8 ай бұрын

Charlie Dressen of the Brooklyn Dodgers had that rule. When Charlie went out to the mound the pitchers were not aloud to speak. -mikenotpaula.

@opie32958

8 ай бұрын

@@paulazmudzinski9225 Ah. And I remember that name but hadn't thought about him in years. Thanks!

After the game Ragans blamed it on the mound crumbling away but Blue Jays starter Jose Berrios disagreed. "Sometimes that mound gets really weird because when they open the roof and it's a day game it starts getting hard and the hole starts getting bigger but today it was not bad," said Berrios.

Pitch tracker was going crazy this AB lol

That 3rd batter looked like a oompa loompa lol

I appreciate how Jimmy shows what he is talking about. I like baseball but I do not have time to watch it much and I forget all these nuances and its nice to see examples with a good explaination!

I was at this game and had to explain to my non baseball fan friend that what they just witnessed was a once in a lifetime event akin to Rick Ankiel. Ragans had the Jays on lock down the entire game. The moment he fell off the mound was the moment all the momentum swung to the Jays. I love baseball.

Fantastic look at this. I saw this highlight and guessed the mound was messed up.

He got flustered after 2 consecutive walks and was more focused on keeping the ball over the plate than he was on his delivery, which combined with fatigue led to him falling mid-delivery. Once he fell once it was all he could think about and was destined to keep happening. Pitching is hard man, it's a constant mental battle with yourself that can very easily turn south.

Good on Cole for not flopping and acting like he was hurt; he just shook it off, like an adult/professional, and kept going.

@douglass1221

8 ай бұрын

Huh? The adult would have realized that something was wrong with him (tired) and gotten himself outta there. He did the EXACT OPPOSITE of what an adult/professional should do. You have the same mentality that Cole had which cost them those runs….

@stashito

8 ай бұрын

@@douglass1221 I can’t think of any pitcher that would take them selves out in that instance. Well maybe De Grom, but he would have hurt himself somehow. He is young and a little embarrassed doing that in the show but a veteran would have had the mound measured to kill time and gain composure after the first one. Definitely after the second time

I was watching that game live. Jays' broadcasters were saying how the Royals got a potential gem from the Rangers (got him for Aroldis Chapman). Apparently, the Rangers did not want him to throw a changeup. So the Royals say, throw your changeup more and we'll make you a starter. Worked out well for them. Well, at least until the sixth inning of that game. He pitched kind of well against Astros on Saturday, until the 7th, so I'm curious to see what he'll do in his next start, should be Friday in Houston. What I don't understand, if you look down multiple times after a pitch, you think there may be something wrong with the mound, ask the groundskeepers to fix it. If you fell, even more so, now's the time. He likely cost his team a win but I'm glad it was against the Jays who needed a win. I hope it will be a learning lesson for Ragans.

Coaches should have noticed something sooner that there was something wrong in his mechanics, probably because they don’t know him well enough yet. As usual, Jomboy’s insight and video skills are the clear winner here.

Thanks Jimmy

Only good detective work on this play. Love you Jomboy

3:06 that look on his face was great

I watched this live and was instantly hoping you would do a breakdown... thanks.

Guy pitching has the same delivery motion as Cole Hamels. Couldn’t stop seeing it after the 3rd pitch I saw.

Baseball gods with Jays ;o) When this happened I was shocked. Worried about his health bc there was no prob with the mound. NEVER seen anything like it.

Braves fan here, can we please have this guy? I like his spirit

this started to feel like the SNL Olympics ice skating sketch with jason priestly

Speaking as a former HS pitcher, I feel very qualified to answer this quandry. I will say from my recollection, windup felt so much more natural than from the stretch. You have more momentum and power it seems than from the stretch. That, along with fatigue, probably didn't help Ragans.

@Apollo55_

8 ай бұрын

High school pitcher here super fucking qualified 😂😂😂

@danielhoward4566

8 ай бұрын

@@Apollo55_ Beats being a former little league player. lol

@Apollo55_

8 ай бұрын

@@danielhoward4566 Lmao I guess You're not wrong.

@danielhoward4566

8 ай бұрын

@@Apollo55_ High School, one step above Middle School. 🤣

Looking at the side by side comparison of when he fell versus when he didn't, the later pitches he had his lead leg quite a bit straighter at the knee when he caught the mound. Wouldn't surprise me if that was just fatigue.

Saw this live at the game. We were all blown away!

Certified Jomboy Classic

Remember going to the kitchen for some snacks after the Schneider walk, came back and it was 2-2 and the graphic showed we still had 1 hit (from earlier)?? Couldn't have been more confused, and then trying to come to terms there were actually 3 wild pitches and that the 3rd one was not a replay of the 1st...

Awesome breakdown

Great breakdown!

I was watching this live and thought the third passed ball was just a replay of the first. Wild night

:02 Cole “Raygun” Ragans, my homie. Dude K’s up the zone and is such a steal for the team via trade acquisition!

Eesh, I don't know. First time could be random, maybe I leave him in maybe I don't. 2nd time in a row is obviously a pattern though. I take him out for sure, specially with the tying run on 3rd.

Yeah I hope it was just fatigue too. I was at that game, it was the craziest thing to see and until then he had been pitching really well.

excellent breakdown

This is a fatigue thing. You'll see different guys show it different ways, particularly in the stretch. For me my rotation above my waist gets a bit behind and pitches that were hitting the outside corner (on righties as a RHP) start to move in and up. When you get tired, some part of your body gets out of sync and stuff like this happens. My HS pitching coach was a 9 year pro and he always had us running on non-bullpen days to build stamina. Play with some former college and one or two minor league guys in rec. now and it's the same.

I live your content keep it up

Have you ever been walking on a surface you expect to be level, and slightest little raise in the ground trips you up? We don't realize how precise our steps are till something like that happens. The pitcher clearly had a problem with the mound before tripping, as you can see him continually looking down at it and kicking the dirt. Something was off. Fatigue might have made it worse, causing him to trip, and then conscious overstepping threw off his accuracy when he did clear the spot.

I was so happy when this happened. This won the game for the jays

His hips are lower from the stretch, so where the leg would normally clear because his hips are higher, from the stretch they are lower with less room for the foot to clear the stride to impact. It also messes with the plant of the foot and the rest of his mechanics.

Maybe he recently changed cleats? I have several pairs of running shoes, and one pair, it seems I always catch my right foot on something when I run, stumble, almost fall. After three times, I never ran in them again. Never happens with other shoes...

Mechanics issue possibly caused by fatigue and some mental. You can see he wasn’t as upright at the apex of his stretch motion. Caused his foot to drag and his pitches going high. Whether this is a mental thing to try and gain more momentum from the stretch… well they’re figuring it all out right now.

Typically when you pitch from the stretch you don't lift your leg up as much. You're trying to have a quicker motion towards the plate, so your foot is typically lower. The mound was obviously a problem before he fell, so he had probably felt it already, probably clipping it with his cleats, that's why he threw that one in the dirt. I can't think of any other reason why he would have tripped since he's pitched thousands of times before. When I pitched in high school you sometimes had to go work the mound a bit where your foot would land depending on the other pitcher's stride. Sometimes there'd be spots that other pitchers had kinda dug out where your foot could catch in or you'd land awkwardly.

I'm curious what the side angle looks like, that is, from the first-base side. I wonder if his stride was shorter from the stretch, and so he wasn't clearing the mound? The guy must have thrown tens of thousands of pitches though. It seems strange that this problem would crop up now all of a sudden.

The stretch only decreases the time to deliver the pitch, making it more difficult for the runners to steal, which is why all pitchers switch to it with men on base. Some use it without, but everybody uses it with men on base!

I think it was Jose Berrios who said sometimes the mound get weird at Rogers Centre when the roof is open. The analysis in this video looks pretty good, and the side by side stuff was telling, but he was kicking at that spot on the mound. The Sportsnet TV announcers were (iirc) saying why wasn't he asking grounds crew to come out a see to it?

I'm not sure if it's unique to the Jays, but the ads that are infront of the first row aren't actually green screens. They seem to be on some kind of belt that rolls from top to bottom during the comercial breaks

I just want to say it's nice to see that KC doesn't have any ugly sleeve patch ad.

I like how Jomboy says “I’m not a pitching coach… at all”. Like, not part time or nothing.

My dad reminded it and showed me and my first thought was “I hope Jimmy covers this”

Good diagnosis Dr Jomboy. Maybe he has a wooden leg. Perhaps a move to Pittsburg for him?

That third clip on the right his foot cleared but the dirt broke hard when his toes made contact

I believe fatigue was only part of it. The mound being hard is probably another factor. That is the reason he was kicking the mound and looking down. Sometimes they get a little dried out throughout the game. In extreme situations it will be hard to land cleanly with your cleats. Too bad he did not make it to the seventh inning stretch so they wound add a little water to mound as they redo the dirt in the infield.

This is a mound issue. Key indicator he keeps kicking the dirt around his landing spot. What can happen especially later in games is you can get dry clay chunks that sometimes your metal cleats can’t break through causing your landing foot to feel like it’s on ice. It’s a very unnerving feeling.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

The grounds crew at Rogers Centre come out to quickly groom the field every five innings, which would've been right before the pitch sequence we see in this video. I don't know how much they smooth and fill in on the mound, though. Divots, grooves, and the landing spot could've all been altered right before he went out there.

@Math.Bandit

8 ай бұрын

His landing foot wasn't even landing was the problem. Jomboy breaks it down very clearly in the video; he wasn't getting his foot high enough so it dragged. Had nothing to do with where it came down. But sure, must have been an issue with the mound that popped up mid-inning out of nowhere and then went away without anyone working on it as soon as a not-gassed pitcher came into the game.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

@@Math.Bandit Or the next pitcher noticed the routine 5th inning field grooming had added a bit too much dirt back on the mound, and used their cleats to shape it up better.

@Math.Bandit

8 ай бұрын

@@Dulcimerist and the "routine 5th inning grooming" was fine for nine batters until suddenly on the 10th batter it caused the pitcher to drag his front leg and get less lift than he had two batters earlier?

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

@@Math.Bandit The video clearly showed something was not fine, since he kept looking down at the mound several times after pitches, as if something wasn't right with it. He kicked at the dirt a bit, and if things weren't feeling right, it would slightly change his mechanics. Then he went into the stretch and changed how he set up on the mound, which set up the fall. Watch the video, dude!

The mud is building up on his shoe too, so it’s like he’s goin an extra inch of heel.

2:32 #30 on Toronto looks like he is straight out of Backyard Baseball.

Been waiting for this one

Not surprised the Royals had a Jomboy breakdown of something like this.

"Hey, whatever you do, just don't fall down mid-windup and throw the ball away, ok?" "The next pitch...oh no! He fell down mid-windup! Threw the ball away!" LMAO

I was at this game and it was like watching a car crash in slow motion. I have never seen anything like it.

His pitching motion looks a lot like Sidd Finch's

So speaking as someone with MS… someone needs to get him under an MRI asap. Super easy to treat if caught early.

I keep imagining the scene from Major League “Juuuuuust a bit outside”

as a newbie baseball fan, i thank you

His anchor left leg is also bending a lot more in the stretch. Like he’s getting deeper into it

bro i thought i was in a dream when he dropped a second time! LIKE WHAA get em out he's in his own head lmao. great vid

It may have been fatigue but Ragans was also looking at the mound constantly, aren't you allowed to take a timeout and get the grounds crew to flatten or fix up the mound a bit before your next pitch? Or am I wrong.

Seems like that mound wasn’t crowned correctly. With him kicking at it so early on, he knew something didn’t feel right. The rubber might even have been wiggling a little bit.

@Dulcimerist

8 ай бұрын

The grounds crew at Rogers Centre come out to quickly groom the field every five innings. Curious to see camera footage of what they did. If they had filled or smoothed the landing spot and other divots Ragans had been getting used to, it would've happened right before the pitch sequence in this video.

This is so much more eventful than the title seems.

It's entertaining and educational - Matt

Man, finally see the royals on a breakdown and it's us with egg on our faces. Pretty on brand I guess.

Looks to me like his wind-up is ahead of his feet and he tries to catch up by twisting. Problem is you get tired faster and the tiniest missstep causes complete chaos.

Looks like he is landing slightly positioned to the left more when he was comin outta the stretch. He's a bit more to the right comin outta the wind up. Maybe that had something to do with his landing of the front foot

I was at this game. What a weird situation.