Their public statement is the worst... Another clear example of planned obsolescence: "your product is fine, but it hurts our business that you are not buying the much more expensive one we just released, so we are gonna punish you for that, now pay for Rekordbox"

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

It certainly doesn't seem to be pleasing many people

@neosean9984

Ай бұрын

Welcome to Adobe. I mean the new Pioneer... Pay top dollar to still not own a damn thing... Ridiculous.

@markstephenson9280

Ай бұрын

If they actually released Some new gear instead of trying to flog 2016 tech to everyone they might make more money

@Bedrock1966

Ай бұрын

My ddj-rr is so good, I've just had some pots repaired and I'll stick with rb6! My laptop can't handle stems anyway. ​@@markstephenson9280

@NexuJin

Ай бұрын

@@neosean9984 No no no no. We don't go there mate. What Adobe does is in another league. I don't like what Pioneer is doing either. But it's by far not as malicious as what Adobe is doing. (not yet)

Glad I left Pioneer DJ and went to Denon...thanks for confirming my decision to switch once again Alpha Theta

@dj_paultuk7052

Ай бұрын

Exactly the same here. Now with Denon DJ kit.

@rkashby78

Ай бұрын

Same here, moved over to Denon last year and now would never go back, the engine dj library management software is so much better and nicer to use plus it’s free!!! and I don’t need to mention dual layer deck mode on their players something that the so called industry standard Pioneer still haven’t done! Bye bye Pioneer

@JeremiahHartmanPhotography

Ай бұрын

@@rkashby78 yeah their processors in even the CDJ3000 are laggy just loading waveforms and jumping hot cues theres no way it could manage having dual layers😐

@BlueHawk80

Ай бұрын

SC5000 released in 2017 (!) still gets full and FREE major updates… just fu*k Pioneer, lol

@DjStinger

Ай бұрын

Same here, I bought the SC LIVE 4. Great piece of kit. No regrets for leaving pioneer.

The beginning of the end for Pioneer DJ. Well done, AlphaTheta!

@MadelnMachines

Ай бұрын

@@mivandi3059 Until all of the major clubs get rid of CDJs and Pioneer mixers I just can’t see an end. It’s basically their USP along with the imagine and branding that goes with it. I don’t think they could sustain the company just from venue sales though but as long as they maintain this monopoly they will always be a reluctant only choice for club djs.

@AverageFourty

Ай бұрын

They don't see it that way, in fact I see if your way as well. They don't. Usually companies who don't realize it, are headed for a major loss. I do think however B2B (business 2 business) they may survive, but the next DJ equipment I purchase won't be pioneer! Already put in around $15,000 into Pioneer in 20 years, I'm done with them.

@GamerNycteris

Ай бұрын

And Serato don't forget that they bought them

@mwiz100

Ай бұрын

And with this I honestly hope Denon picks up on things and really progresses with their product. They've got an already great set of players, they just need to keep pushing and we could very well see the standard change with this greedy move by the new holding company.

@DutchFreeman

Ай бұрын

@@GamerNycteris they didn't buy it yet, inMusic filed a lawsuit in NZ to stop it.

I'm a software developer, there is no good technical reason for locking out the older hardware. None at all. This is a purposeful approach to get people to upgrade to newer Pioneer gear and/or subscribe to Rekordbox

@aaronb9630

Ай бұрын

I wish I could like this 1000 time and it was at the top.

@dmp4096

Ай бұрын

EXACTLY!!! I’m a developer as well. The code that handles the login, the old hardware ID and the license could have been carried forward. No doubt in my mind. But AlphaTheta said why they did this… I’m affected, I have an -RX. My long term plan was to continue running Rekordbox 5.8 and only recently loaded 6 on my laptop. I believe that my -RX will work with dJay Pro (on a laptop anyway) and may transition to dJay…

@NexuJin

Ай бұрын

For the longest time, I have been wondering how hard it would be to write a virtual USB driver device that mimic to be something else.

@djkeithjust

Ай бұрын

As a developer you do know when MS and APL said they were moving to 64bit if made everything prior obsolete?

@djkeithjust

Ай бұрын

Also why waste resources on trying to keep older devices and software working? All the devices aren’t even made or sold anymore. We ask for all this new shite and don’t expect to old stuff to be left out.

That's why I appreciate Engine Dj/Denon Dj team for their care and advanced technology ❤️ Old prime series still get the last firmware for free, imagine 🙂

@isotoxin

Ай бұрын

This is blasphemy!!! 😡

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't evenb have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

@lostalienmusic

Ай бұрын

@@TheFunkloft it's not just a software thing, it's all about their approach towards their customers.

@hardkore360

28 күн бұрын

​@@TheFunklofttheir built in Engine OS gear does a whole lot more than any Pioneer unit does, even when hooked up to a PC. Just look at the SC6000m, dual layer, stand alone unit, analyses files on the unit, has Wifi, and a ton of more features Pioneer can only dream of. You are giving Pioneer too much credit, and that's why they take advantage of loyal customers based on branding alone 😅😅😅

I'd accept the "not possible for technical reasons" explanation, if the same gear didn't work just fine once you subscribe. It's greed.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Basically if you pay for Rekordbox, you can use any controller you can get to work with it (or none at all) - the only possible defence from them here would be "the new Rekordbox is incapable of knowing if you have an older controller plugged in" - which does, in all honesty, seem a little implausible, I agree.

@chrisrioux6436

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips I think this especially falls apart given the XP2 is still a hardware unlock and the XP1 is not. I guarantee you there’s little to no difference hardware wise in those units that would limit the XP1 in Rekordbox 7 that wouldn’t also affect the XP2.

@grizeldiSLO

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips If it sucessfully picks the correct midi mappings to use once a controller is connected to RB with subscription, then it clearly knows what controller is plugged in. The only technical reason I can see in this case would be the fact that some of the older controllers used easily spoofable methods of identification (SX2 and SX3 only needed you to name a MIDI device correctly and RB would pick it up), but those are so old that you already needed a subscription for them in RB6.

@ChipJam

Ай бұрын

Iirc the first corporation to create a subscription model was Autodesk, the owners of Maya, which they did after they bought up all the competing software. Once they saw that, Adobe and Avid soon followed suit, (along with a bunch of others, I’m sure). The 3D world responded with Blender, an open-source application, which just keeps getting better. At least Avid had the decency to make the older version of Pro Tools compatible with the subscription-based version (I think they knew there would be a riot otherwise.) And of course everyone knows how much Adobe sucks - charging you money so they can steal your work to feed their AI learning. We need some smart people to create an open-source solution for DJ software that is hardware-agnostic. (Unless that already exists - I’m not really in the loop in that world) They are all vampires!

@grizeldiSLO

Ай бұрын

@@ChipJam Mixxx exists as an open source DJ software solution (I even contributed to it briefly), but unless your DJ style consists only of EQing, you're gonna have a rather bad time with it. FX workflow and quality is pretty bad and scratching on the pioneer controllers I tried to use with it had so much latency it was unusable.

This feels like a cash grab. Either pay them consistently for the subscription or buy current gear. Time to switch to Virtual DJ permanently.

@playeveryday01

Ай бұрын

$19 a month for VJ or $300 for a license which is insane for dj software.

@chrisrioux6436

Ай бұрын

@@playeveryday01 Yes, but depends how long term you look. The cheapest you can subscribe to Rekordbox is $120 a year. So if you think you are going to be at this for 3+ years, you start saving again with Virtual DJ.

@playeveryday01

Ай бұрын

@@chrisrioux6436 Ive used Record box for 6 years and never subscribed. Kind of shocked people need to do this.

@drumrush

Ай бұрын

@@playeveryday01Serato DJ Pro has entered the chat.

@GatisGirdenis

Ай бұрын

​@@drumrushyou mean, the Serato owned by AlphaTheta?

This is why the acquisition of serato needs to be stopped

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

That is another story entirely! Keep an eye on the site as we learn more about that...

@InkyDaCaT

Ай бұрын

Yeah I've got mine time locked on mac....but not goid!

@pepedlux

Ай бұрын

Precisely my concern as well. When I first heard about this, my immediate thought was "well thank goodness Serato still respects lifetime licenses" and then the penny dropped and my blood ran cold.

@JamesMincey

Ай бұрын

​@@pepedluxDoes Serato no longer have lifetime licenses??

@kizzfdz1991

Ай бұрын

@@JamesMincey it still has life time licenses but alpha theta/pioneer are trying to buy serato. if that happens you can pretty much say goodbye to those life time licenses.

I sure hope regulators do not allow alphatheta to buy Serato. Alpha is pulling the smartphone trick of killing your battery. Smdh. This is the exact kind of thing that is leading farmers to sue John Deere over right to repair. It also reminds me of buying a 50-60k car and then having to subscribe to heated and AC seats. We need to push back against this death from 1000 cuts.

@ruk2023--

Ай бұрын

Take off your tinfoil hat for a minute. Batteries degrade over time. That's just a fact.

@IamPreacherMan

Ай бұрын

@@ruk2023-- I guess you never heard of batterygate. But yeah I know batteries die. I’m a mechanic for the last 25 years or so. ✌🏻

@ruk2023--

Ай бұрын

​@@IamPreacherMan Batterygate is when Apple slow down the processor in your phone when your battery is too old to keep up with it due to it degrading over time. It is an effect of your battery dying not the cause of it.

Perfect opportunity for virtual dj and djay pro

@badfoot

Ай бұрын

Djay Pro full feature set is subscription only

@VJXess

Ай бұрын

@@badfoot and it cheaper compare Rekordbox Core plan.

@josephtoronto7753

Ай бұрын

Virtual DJ is so underrated.

@cyberphonic

Ай бұрын

You should'nt have to buy Virtual DJ, You have already brought the gear for it to work with Pioneer own software.

@DJStanSteel

Ай бұрын

@@cyberphonicdon’t be silly. How does that help the developers of VDJ? the company have nothing to do with pioneer. DUH!

Vdj works well with your old pioneer gear

@jakl10

Ай бұрын

always has and always will

@Santen_

Ай бұрын

It works even better than rekordbox

@gamingheadztvMediaHeadztv

Ай бұрын

@@Santen_ i love how i had 16 year old gear and it still worked on vdj .. pioneer is crazy for making people pay for that

@ddridder

18 күн бұрын

Even has export mode to usb for CDJ usage.

subscription software without a full price/buy own option should be ditched away.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

I think if peope know upfront then that is fine, otherwise you can see why people get upset.

@TinVoid

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips Yes also that, it's kind of a change of terms that never asked for your consent.

I was so sick of buying,downloading, and prepping music via multiple software programs, that i switched back to vinyl, vinyl is so instant, and the feeling i get from it, is just so much better then playing with my cdj’s, it gives me so much more joy 🙏🏼

@eyespy3001

Ай бұрын

And it never fails! I’ve watched so many DJs fall flat in their faces at gigs because their laptop crashed, or they had to install some new software update…🤦‍♂️ That’s always my cue to step in and throw some records on.

@djsubculture2786

Ай бұрын

How do you back-up your vinyl?

@Funky1ism

Ай бұрын

@@djsubculture2786 what do you mean? Why would you back-up vinyl? If ever i buy a 2 copies, and if i play and older records from like 15-20 years ago, wich has a lot of wear and tear, and you hear some crackles and pops, well, thats the charm of vinyl for me.

@sebastiaanvandingenen1472

Ай бұрын

How does this even make sense. Looking for vinyl, ordering vinyl, waiting for vinyl to arrive, ordering your vinyl boxes, dragging your vinyl, looking for the right vinyl when you're playing... I get that you want to be old school but your reasoning doesn't make any sense at all

@Funky1ism

Ай бұрын

@@sebastiaanvandingenen1472 no, i don’t want to be oldschool, thats why i also play with cdj’s. And yes, you make valid points, but listening/searching/ and ordering vinyl i find more fun then searching/downloading/prepping digital music. And i don’t mind carrying a record bag. Also, i said, i got sick of it, my opinion, if others prefer digital music, fine. I just get more joy and a better feeling playing vinyl.

And Denon DJ are still updating the SC5000s from 2017...

@JeremiahHartmanPhotography

Ай бұрын

Yup, just updated my SC5000s to Engine 4.0 😁

@djLovelyTime

Ай бұрын

@@JeremiahHartmanPhotography Engine 4.0 is an OS for the player, not software. False equivalence.

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

@@djLovelyTime the point still stands. denon loses out by limiting themselves to the older hardware, but they still do it

@chrisrioux6436

Ай бұрын

In my opinion, that’s even more impressive. Denon is working with an older chip and still updating them. Where-as most of these are just MIDI devices, there shouldn’t be technical limitations to keep them upgraded. The DDJ-XP1 came out in 2017 as well and is now unsupported without a subscription! Crazy!

@Aves_1

Ай бұрын

@@djLovelyTimeengine is both the os and the software

Locking older stuff out is a choice, it doesn't suddenly become too old for it to work, it still works perfectly, to say they have to leave stuff behind is utter bollocks

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

To be clear, the reason for this is locking out of Rekordbox 7 (it still all works with Rekordbox 6).

@Psyclic.

Ай бұрын

Designed obsolescence is a business decision for a better revenue stream. The problem is you piss your user base off this losing customers and decreasing revenue. Honestly they are doing this because they make no money post sale on a dj controller and as a company that makes stuff the upgrade cycle of hardware isn’t anywhere near what they can make with a software subscription.

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

@@Psyclic. People that are still using one of the affected controllers are highly unlikely their main target audience.

more reasons for me to stay with Denon

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't evenb have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

@alexzanderking1556

Ай бұрын

@@TheFunkloft you're right Denon doesn't charge a subscription.

Bad for pioneer😱👎, but I use the XDJ-R1 for ten years as the main dj controller, I've been using virtual dj since the beginning and it works without any problems...💪

@johnnychipello919

22 сағат бұрын

👌

Get Virtual DJ infinity pretty much all controllers will work and it's a one time payment that includes all future updates and they often first to implement new stuff like stems for example.

Switched from Pioneer to Denon and haven’t looked back. Using Prime go and has replaced my XDJ-XZ.

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

You so called Denon users are so full of shit. How can you say you "switched and never looked back" after going from a fully featured XZ to the crappy Prime Go?

Here is what you can do...buy Virtual DJ PRO Infiniti for a one time $300 fee and you own it for life(with all upgrades) Way better than rekordbox

@DJMJM

Ай бұрын

That's what I did and it was worth the value. Even my Pioneer DDJ-SZ (a controller that ended up being discontinued three/four years later after it was released), works perfectly on VirtualDJ, just that the controls can be confusing at times, but you get used to it overtime.

@No--0--Spin

Ай бұрын

​@@DJMJM what do you mean by controls can be confusing? They should be mapped pretty close if not exact. Drop their support a note and see if there is something they can fix or point you too. The VDJ team have been great supporting me with any questions, thoughts, or expressions of anger :)

@DJMJM

Ай бұрын

@@No--0--Spin What I mean by that is, I'm used to adjusting the controls for specific DJ controllers. It's just that whenever you have two other people that are not used to DJaying with a controller made for Serato but it's also compatible with VirtualDJ, it's a learning curve considering VirtualDJ8 gives you just as many options as Engine and Rekordbox does, but a lot and I mean A LOT more controls than Serato DJ has in the software. Considering the DDJ-SZ and SR controllers are over ten years old, they don't have the bells and whistles that many recent DJ controllers have, especially when it comes to stems. Thankfully VirtualDJ8 can do this with another cue point window option, just not with serato sadly.

The biggest corporations often seem to behave in the most unscrupulous ways

Just switch to virtual dj and call it a day.

@jakl10

Ай бұрын

this.

@Lordblanca

Ай бұрын

Do Not understand your response. Virtual Dj works with 99 percent of the dj equipment. Don't have to worry about pioneer trying to get more money from you.

@rjmn1

Ай бұрын

​@Lordblanca they're agreeing with you mate

@robertschnobert9090

Ай бұрын

This ​@@rjmn1

@rrrichiexl

Ай бұрын

Haha yep, just fired it up again last nite. Had fun again. Time to cancel some subscriptions...

I have the DDJ Rev5, and I discovered this a month ago. I only use rekordbox for one gig. I tried RB 7 and it worked for 30 days, then it told me to pick a subscription plan. Now I use RB 6 for that gig, and continue to use Serato DJ Peo for everything else.

This is a dirty move that is disappointing but not entirely surprising.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Do you think it's dirty or just clumsy?

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips I think there’s a certain ‘we can do what we want’ element to their decisions these days…. Club standard and all that.

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips this is just dirty. i started DJing over 10 years ago, but half of that time i was on a hiatus for work. i always wanted to get the cdj 2000s to play on, but could never justify the cost. and i still cant justify the cost, but they are starting to go down in price, and there are a lot of companies that i dont support, but will buy their products used, like apple, and even meta, as im considering getting a quest pro. that way they dont get my money, and i still get their product, and someone else gets a little bit for their old stuff. now, i dont use rekordbox, i switch between virtualdj and traktor, the latter of the 2, offered me a huge discount to upgrade to the newest version, even though the latest version came out maybe a year ago. they didnt have to do that, and i wouldve been just fine using the version i had, because it still works fine, but because of the discount, i definitely bought it. i plan to mainly dj in VR, but what if i was asked to dj a convention? im not sure if i would be bringing my own equipment or if theyre supplying it for us. ive seen both happen. apple and meta do stupid things that can be overlooked, and these are things that wont see the light of day. im hesitant to even show brand loyalty to a company that forces people to pay for a subscription to use their hardware with their software, when they previously allowed it. i dont care if its limited functionality. this is an act of heresy. and in fact, just recently, sony betrayed the gaming community with helldivers 2. they had almost half a million dedicated players, they were all into the lore, until sony decided to force everyone to create a psn account, and in under a year, they went to having a game of the year candidate, to struggling to even have 50 thousand players on at any given time. now, i know that all the big name djs are used to using pioneer, but im sure that some of these djs are going to fall out of favor with them. and James Hype does not like the cdj 3000s. he said it on his own video, they dont work with his style of djing

@Ireful

Ай бұрын

Totally dirty! They’re asking for 20 bucks a month yet DJay Pro is 50 bucks… A YEAR!

@SonicWalkerMix

Ай бұрын

Guess they figured out that one time controller payments are not a sustainable way to finance lifetime software updates.

I would love for nothing more than Pioneer and Serato to be knocked off their perch and seriously challenged by ambitious companies with innovative products. Their dominance in the market has been a detriment for quite some time.

@NexuJin

Ай бұрын

Native Instruments gave it a good run for a while with their Traktor products line.

@robertrivera5597

Ай бұрын

Because you choose to use their gear.

@hardkore360

28 күн бұрын

Denon Prime Series (2, 4, 4+) and the SC-6000M blow any Pioneer gear out. Not even close 😂

Between hearing this and Spotify bricking their CarThing device I think I need to save up for a hardware set up. Soon they'll charge $2 a month for effects lol

@ramonrichie9683

Ай бұрын

You already have to.

Thanks for being so honest Phil. I love that you don’t feel you have to be in anyone’s pocket. So refreshing.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Here is why: djtips.co/funding

The fact that virtualdj will work with all those units and that they are not natively made for virtualdj says to me that pioneer is just plain greedy. Plain talk

There's always Virtual DJ ;-)

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

That's true, even Mixxx apparently works with this (not tried it though). There are always options!

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips if it doesnt work with mixxx, it will soon

One day Virtual DJ will be the standard for Djing. It’s been a bumpy road. But they will be on top.

I rented the FLX6 recently (i love playing with effects and wanted to try the effect knobs) and aside from the controller not being for me, it was really off-putting that Rekordbox would consistently shove the subscriptions down my throat, begging me to give them money. I went with the Traktor Kontrol S4 and I'm honestly really glad i did seeing this video. I don't want to pay $1400AUD for a controller that i won't be able to use in 4 years' time because AlphaTheta want me to buy a new one. It's as bad as Apple slowing down older iphones so you'll upgrade!

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

The FLX6 is a hardware unlock device so your rant doesn't make any sense.

Pioneer did this before (I think it was Rekordbox 5 to 6) where if you'd paid for addon effects and enhancements to 5, they no longer worked in 6. People moaned - they'd paid to own these addons - yet Pioneer didn't budge. I was one of the victims.

@ramonrichie9683

Ай бұрын

Yep I paid for all the RB5 add-ons just to find, needed to pay again, and then a subscription model RB6

@djdv8inthemix

Ай бұрын

Same here. Time to switch.

@johnhaill7206

Ай бұрын

@@djdv8inthemix well when I was using RB four when I got my RX I paid for the effect pack which I think is wrong now that we have to pay for subscriptions

@mautrindade

Ай бұрын

the only way they would budge is with a class action

jutst got a new dj controller without paying a cent! my prime 4 got engine os 4 and it's still going strong!

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't even have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

@mathewst3979

Ай бұрын

​@@TheFunkloft If I need something like a "fully fledged digital DJ suite", I connect my prime 4 to my PC and open Serato. The Prime 4 is a standalone console. There's no strict need for a DJ suite. I could throw music files on a USB drive and start DJing. If I'm serious, I prepare and sync my music to with Denon's Engine DJ. It does everything I've ever done with rekordbox, better and faster. I've been a Pioneer user and have never looked back since switching -- I suppose hearing Pioneer paywalling things got me more passionate about my Denon, resulting in my somewhat off-topic comment.

@hardkore360

28 күн бұрын

​@@TheFunkloftbro you literally cut and paste the same comment on here wtf? 😂😂😂

Well.. At least my pair of Technics SL1200 MK2 will not require a subscription, so I am safe.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Not so easy to find all of today's music on vinyl, though

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips it’s definitely getting more easy though:)

@Blaulicht1120

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips DVS helps here. But i was tired of connecting my laptop each time i wanted to play some new track so i added one CDJ400 and use it with USB stick for this.

@OutlandishWayZ

Ай бұрын

Sounds like your going to have to break out the back breaking crates again😂😂😂😂

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

@@OutlandishWayZ I already am, and DJing feels fun again.

It's been two years since Serato abandoned support on my Numark NS6. Yeah, I use ancient gear. I still have the same turntables that I bought in 2001.

It's obvious Pioneer want to push their users towards a subscription model, and in time more and more equipment will "no longer work" with the latest version of the software, unless you pay the subscription of course. If this was the purchasing model Pioneer started with it would be totally acceptable, users would choose to pay this way, but switching from a model where users buy their hardware once and received continual updates with no suggestion of obsolescence, to one where the only way to continue using the equipment purchased is to pay even more money, and doing so by stealth in such an underhand manor, is disgraceful and likely to be the beginning of the end for Pioneer. Lets hope other vendors don't follow suit.

@aaronb9630

Ай бұрын

They are trying to buy Serato and force the same thing there as well. The hobby will be killed by corporations

Just like apple was forcing people to upgrade to the latest. And they got caught. And fine . Pioneer and other companies are resulting in this. Not allowing the hardware to work with the latest software and users are forced to upgrade the software because of apple's so-called security parches, etc... it's plain robbery. If you want people to buy your new gear? Make it worth the upgrade and affordable. Don't just add 2 buttons and 🎉 voilà!! The new thing that does exactly the same thing as the old but in shiny colour! We understand that you need to survive as company. But it means that you have to milk your own customers to make a profit? Big respect to all the companies who don't exploit their customers in this way!

@davidlandrum

Ай бұрын

What Apple hardware are you referring to?

@rubendacostaesilva8442

Ай бұрын

@@davidlandrum any MacBook or iPhone, basically. But I don't regard they've been fined for it, quite the contrary.

@DerEIitepartner

Ай бұрын

Out of curiosity: What's so special about Apple in that instance? Look at Microsoft (Windows) - support for legacy versions will end sooner or later there as well. And btw, I am still using my 2017 MacBook Pro and it's working totally fine without anyone at Apple forcing me to upgrade lol

@davidlandrum

Ай бұрын

@@rubendacostaesilva8442 But, the current release of MacOS supports Macs from 2018.

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

2015 MacBook user here, still works extremely well.

Sounds about right for this “industry standard”. ..

If they can unlock it for a price, they can unlock it for free. This is forced upgrading, not cool

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

We would be interested to hear their response to this question, as it is at the heart of things.

@aaronb9630

Ай бұрын

They spent extra money on their new gear to change the signal slightly so they could discern it from old gear so they could then charge you more. It's more than forced upgrading, it's a planned attack on the people who bought Pioneer gear before it was owned by AlphaTheta. They are going to get your money or your not using Pioneer stuff anymore if it's up to them. Its dirty as fuck.

I changed to Denon some months ago. Best decision

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't even have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

@hardkore360

28 күн бұрын

100% agree, engine software analyzed my entire 1TB SSD of music in a matter of minutes, Serato and other software needs to step up their game.

I have to still update my DENON sc5000s..love my DENON DECKS I only use usb's and stream live ..no sofware required..

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't even have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

Reloop is my go to brand

Glad I haven't upgraded by DDJ1000 from version 6... My next purchase won't be Pioneer.

This is the kind of stuff I add to the growing list of why I’ve shunned all sorts of digital djing and have once again fallen head over heels in love with playing vinyl.

@kevbocat5621

Ай бұрын

I would do this as well but I live on an island in Portugal so hunting for vinyl is non existent. I opted for getting Phase DJ and it's actually pretty incredible. This is minimal drift but nothing that will hinder you.

VIRTUAL DJ!!!!! 🎉 it's better anyway

That's why Denon DJ is the best

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

How can you even compare regarding this subject? Denon doesn't even have a fully fledged digital DJ suite so your comparison doesn't make any sense.

@hardkore360

28 күн бұрын

​@@TheFunkloft😂😂😂😂😂

This is the exact reason I have concerns as a Rane user with Pioneer/Alpha owning Serato. They could get funky at any moment, especially if they do this to their own Pioneer users. The new Rane Performer could take a surprising hit like this. Hope InMusic have a backup plan...

@Julezliddell

Ай бұрын

I think virtual DJ is their current back up plan as a fellow rane user I'm prepared to switch if they pull this with Serato.

@BoomDocs14K

Ай бұрын

@@Julezliddell You know what... I didn't think about VDJ! I think I will follow your lead on this to be prepared as well. They say if you "fail to plan" then you're "planning to fail." So being fluent with backup software is clutch planning! Thanks!!

I was absolutely STUNNED when my DDJ-RR stopped working before my last gig, because the RB7 'trial period' ended. I played for 1 month with the DDJ-RR and RB7 and everything worked like a charm. Then suddenly everything is locked?! I was forced back to RB6 (which works fine, and luckily was still on my laptop) to do the gig, but quite unsettled. Now I consider to buy a FLX4 just to unlock the software, but that's EXACTLY what they want me to do, forcing us to new gear (hope not towards the Omnis-Duo)... as it is preferred to paying a subscription. The reasoning of AlphaTheta leaves me unsettled. Too bad, because I love(d) their equipment, maybe even more the older gear.

@deejayskye

Ай бұрын

I say, go for virtual dj. Works like a charm with DDJ-RR and of course also with Flex

@kevbocat5621

Ай бұрын

The money you would spend on a FLX4 will allow you to buy Virtual DJ infinity outright and not have to worry about this BS ever again. Lifetime updates. This is why I left Rekordbox. I'm not playing their stupid games so their CEO's can buy new houses or cars every year. Let them lose it all. The same thing is happening in the gaming industry. They want to start subscription services. They can subscribe themselves all the way to the unemployment line.

Aaaaaaaand there we have it, will the real AlphaBravoCharlieTheta please stand up!

Good luck with understanding and digesting Marketing LOL. But it's very simple : Hardware and Software should be 2 different things and same as the user chooses his preferred hardware, he should be able to select his preferred software. Nothing is for free in this world. So when you paid for your DDJ-R , you also paid for the "free" Rekordbox, so practically if Rekordbox decided to stop this "free" software, they should give you some money back ;) . Thank God, VirtualDJ still gives you the opportunity to get a lifetime Pro License.

If the software works through a paid subscription with older hardware then I'm gonna say it's not obsolete it's just a way to make money either A, force a subscription B, force new hardware.

Those subscription rates are absurd for what they are. So glad I moved on from Pioneer gear. So glad to see so many others moving away from what USED to be a club standard.

What I want to know is now that Alpha Theta owns Serato will the same thing happen to us longtime Serato user😮

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

probably

@scowlistic

Ай бұрын

damn

@aaronb9630

Ай бұрын

Yep, and the subscription fees will continuously rise, then the ads will be another charge to get rid of. They saw software and saw a userbase that had no choice but to subscribe and pay whatever they wanted. They are looking at the top level djs, they don't care about the pleebs, they want their cut of the industry not just the gear.

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

@@aaronb9630 James Hype is not using the cdj 3000s. he does not like them

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

They don’t own Serato, at the minute.

Just wait for an R2R version then

I've been trying to decide to pull the trigger on a djm450 for home.... Nope! Will look at alternatives and vdj

I’ve been stuck on Rekordbox 5 for a few years with my DDJ RR.

@LarsErikOsterud

Ай бұрын

Don't be sad. RB5 is faster and has less trouble and better user interface

I don't mind using older software at least in theory, but will streaming services continue to work on the older versions?

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

i doubt it

Even for the "free" version if Rekorbox 7, we need to submit our credit card details, is that correct? I am still using the old CDJ2000NXS, so just use RB in export mode at the time... Would it be recommended to keep RB 6 and to avoid upgrading to 7?

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Not sure about this

@aurelm

Ай бұрын

Maybe for the free trial but i dont even think so, and not for the free version.

That's why you always want to have an older computer with an older OS with the original version of rekordbox for your gear. You might miss out on new features but you can still DJ no problem

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

That is true

Phil, do you think paying to play is becoming the new trend ? l personally don’t like it. Thanks for your advice.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Only if we let it

Suddenly all the whining and posturing over InMusic not enabling Bluetooth on all devices doesn’t seem as catastrophic does it 🤔

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Frankly who wants Bluetooth on DJ gear anyway?!

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips I’m certainly not bothered, I love a good sturdy XLR cable and prefer my music to be on a physically connected drive :) I feel like it’s being made out to be more important than it actually is.

@chrisrioux6436

Ай бұрын

The thing is too, at least they tried to enable Bluetooth for all devices. Engine DJ had a beta out for that had Bluetooth for all devices (including the Prime 4 and SC5000s), but ended up disabling it in the final release due to stutters in playback and limitations with the older Bluetooth chip. It wasn’t done out of greed.

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

@@chrisrioux6436 exactly.

Planned obsolescence, except completely unnecessary. It’s like saying a word processor is no longer compatible with older USB Keyboards. Lol

@tlkshowhst

Ай бұрын

Standalone gear is the future.

Yep DDJ-RR owner here and looking into other DJ-Apps. (DJay Pro or VDJ) For the moment still on RB6.

@deejayskye

Ай бұрын

Virtual Dj has A Pro license for DDJ-RR. Either life time license or subscription Benifit is if you change controller license will still be valid

Never had liked Rekordbox. Sort of unlogicak software. So when I had my first controller DDJ-RR my decision was to go with Virtual Dj and lifetime license. Big investment back then but no subscription needed ever whatever gear I'm using. Now on a Prime 4 but still use the Ddj-rr in smaller bar Dj gigs That investment is now paying out. Few years laterrealize I did the right thing. Somehow I felt what was coming with subscriptions and Pioneer...

So let me get this straight. If I bring my FLX10 and external HD to some gig and use the laptop and rekordbox on site, (odd scenario, I know, but indulge me), it will not let me use my gear because it isn't registered to that laptop's login? We would have to log that user out and log our credentials in to use the gear? Seems dodgy

@djstuc

Ай бұрын

Not that odd really, a perfectly acceptable scenario and good point well made, it sounds like that jumping on a mates controller is done now, especially weird seeing as quite a few have dual usb ports to connect.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Yes, The dual USB question is an excellent one though.

I have always been with Rane, but recently, I have been HEAVILY flirting with getting the Rev 7 over the Rane Perfomer because of their battle style layout. Well with this bit of info, Pioneer just shot that right in the @$$!!!

@Ronniezim

Ай бұрын

I literally just ordered the performer. Feeling pretty good about it.

It's outrageous that Pioneer/AlphaTheta is just pulling the plug like this. They should've definitely mentioned the life cycle & roadmap when selling these units. The fact that the units still work if you get a paid subscription only makes it worse: clearly, the hardware isn't the issue. This is just a dirty trick to make more money. This is not "earning" money; it's stealing. I don't know if my next unit will be a Pioneer/AlphaTheta if they're this unreliable as a supplier. Thanks for explaining Digital DJ Tips!

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Pioneer DJ is at pains to point out that it still works with RB6, so they would say users still have a free option.

Good thing I haven’t updated - I’ve been planning to incorporate the XP1 into my routine.

In otherwords, move over to other software. VDJ is better.

it seems like alphatheta and pioneer dj are too used to be on top. denon is still supporting their older all-in-one units with firmware updates. the PC gaming industry had their shakeup when "the guy she told you not to worry about" started going to the gym. intel and amd got so used to being on top that they stopped paying attention to what amd was doing, and completely blindsided the competition. intel slashed their prices on their CPUs just to keep up and it took 5-6 years before things balanced out again. im thinking that denon, or maybe another company, is going to blindside pioneer dj and take them off their throne, at least for a little while. theres no reason that a dj controller shouldnt be able to work, ESPECIALLY since it uses midi

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

You're right in a way, they are really very simple boxes at heart.

@TheFunkloft

Ай бұрын

So is Pioneer. The CDJ2000 just got a firmware update a couple of months ago. Don't campare apples with oranges.

This is why I’m still using Rekordbox 5. I knew they were gonna pull something like this

@mcsmithy

20 күн бұрын

How do you go back to rekordbox 5

@bytesabre

20 күн бұрын

@@mcsmithy Dunno, never left it. I already had the serial numbers for my gear activated on this system so I don’t even know if you still can activate them

That explained why when I tried Rekordbox 7 with my controller (DDJ-RR) it said trial version. I was considering subscribing just to be able to use Rekordbox for streaming Beatport as I didn’t like using Beatport DJ with my controller. In the end I’m happy to still use version 5.

@digitaldjtips

22 күн бұрын

Fair enough Michael!

Next stop Denon

@bboymac84

Ай бұрын

Lol yuuuup!!

So the software gets worse, but the price goes up? Interesting tactic.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Wouldn't say the software has got worse...

I have both and they both have pros n cones. Software and hardware but i like both

They want to make more money, Long story short!

Greedy. Just like many other electronics stuff like mobile phone and pc operating system. So much for green environment they claim they are.

MIXXX is the way!

@erikopnemer

Ай бұрын

Caveat emptor of course, but yes.

@johnnychipello919

22 сағат бұрын

ITS FREE!! :)))

As a person whom has used VirtualDJ8 for the past 11+ years, I often see myself using older controllers to use on VirtualDJ than Pioneer's exclusive DJ program (which is why I've been avoiding certain Pioneer gear if I can't use it on other DJ programs than Rekordbox, but that's just me). Either way, I'm glad I didn't buy rekordbox exclusive controllers and DJ gig because it's not worth the value of a product over $500.00 to use only for one DJ program and not the others. And while VirtualDJ has limits of which DJ controllers use what, it's still usable with keyboard and mouse.

Within 12months will have to pay with any pioneer controller.

Rekordbox 7 is complete trash. Extremely buggy

@djsasha.remix.mashups

Ай бұрын

Using daily for a 4 hr open format set...not a single problem.

@RedDawg246

Ай бұрын

@@djsasha.remix.mashups good for you. I use for 30 mins and the playlist flicker. Audio quality drops. It freezes and a host more of issues.

6:00 let's be honest, Rekordbox 6 never actually worked with new apple hardware. It took them this update to version 7 to get Apple Silicon support

@ramonrichie9683

Ай бұрын

RB6 works fine on my M1 Macbook. I find RB7 more sluggish and random pauzes. And sorting doesn't work most of time. And ctrl-f doesn't work like it used to...

But what Pioneer equipment is available to buy right now?

That's why I returned my flx4 when recordbox wanted me to pay for cue,(listening to the music through the headphones while djing😂 that's a standard design for DJing no thanks

@DmitryPuffin

Ай бұрын

What? Really? Wtf 🫤

@blackistheword7

Ай бұрын

@@DmitryPuffin true

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

This is not the case

I have a DJ school and for the kids it's a disaster!! It used to be free, now after 30 days they are forced to buy... 11 years old kits just want to taste how it is to be a DJ are now forced their parents to buy the 'FREE' plan. Pioneer or sorry Alpha Theta is ripping us and those new DJ's off! Disgusting!

Ahhh, the good old vinyl + serato/traktor set up :)

i got 4 pioneer DJ gear , ddj RB, ddj RR, ddj 800 and ddj Rev 5 i think i ll move to rane or algorhtym controler. i just dont wanna use serato. i m in that game since 1996

@djBroRay

Ай бұрын

Djaypro is my next move.. with the rev5

I guess manufacturers of computers and phones do this so it's not suprising although a shame. I still use my DDJ-RX and will be fine just using the older version of Rekordbox I think. It's still an amazing controller which has held its value over time, much more intuitive way of loading tracks than DDJ-1000.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

you probably have nothing to worry about in the shorter term, so all good - for now anyway!

I have been using Pioneer products since around 1997. Over the years, with changes in the company's ownership, after 2014, we have witnessed a decline in the build quality of Pioneer products. You can easily compare the build quality of the CDJ-1000 MK2 with the new Pioneer product, the CDJ-3000. Certainly, none of the DJ hardware manufacturers, except for Denon, have taken professional action, but I think the new owners of Pioneer have decided to bid farewell to professional DJs. Recently, I worked with Virtual DJ software, and I can confidently say that it is five times better than Pioneer's Rekordbox software. We will wait to see what the company's policies are to determine our stance.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Disagree with the abandoning pro DJs thing, they utterly dominate that part of the market

@DjMamsi

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips The reason I said this is because the company is far behind its competitors in software updates and is currently focused on making money. One day, amateur DJs will become professionals, and by that time, Pioneer will not be by their side.

I still use my Technics SL1200s that I bought in 1994...they still work. No need to send them to landfill...Alpha Theta suck! My DDJ1000 is probably next to be made obsolete. The roadcase I bought with it will last longer than the controller.

@kevbocat5621

Ай бұрын

I also have a DDJ1000 and switched to Virtual DJ. Works like a dream, includes DVS and the stems are amazing. I'm going to hook up my Technics 1210's very soon as I just bought Phase DJ as well.

I realised this a few weeks ago already (I have a DDJ-RR). I'm really surprised this hasn't been more clearly communicated by Pioneer or even channels like yours any earlier and clearer. Their plan works though, I'm now considering upgrading to a new controller or even standalone system.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Well, as soon as we heard about it we reported it, clearly.

Absolute madness that they would cut support for my rzx I JUST got it! I've always been subscribed so I can use it with my extra pre unlock gear. But I'll never subscribe again. I'm switching to VDJ which I've been very impressed with the customizability of. It also supports the screens on my rzx incredibly well.

I suspect these particular hardware units are being treated like third party hardware. As hardware from different brands also get unlocked when you have a subscription plan. It feels nasty because its one of their own products. Similar how the DJM900NXS doesn't unlock Performance Mode despite being inoat clubs.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

This is what we think too. The "native" bit has been turned off. Maybe continuing to maintain drivers to unlock them was too costly for older gear? Who knows.

@thedjnamedves

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips at least Pioneer DJ has a better track record on supporting hardware through firmware than Rane

Monopolies should not be allowed! Pioneer and Alpha Theta is buying up everything to monetize for profit

I work at a DJ shop and last week I had to test out a used XDJ-XZ that someone traded in, and all I had within reach for music was my phone. So I fired up Djay Pro and linked the XZ to my phone and the decks just started working, zero messing around. Then I remembered "oh, I also have rekordbox on my phone, might as well test the Pioneer hardware with its own software, that should be even more seamless! Nope. Nothing worked whatsoever. I found it kind of baffling that their app, which is designed exclusively to work with their hardware, felt so unintuitive. I'm sure I could have figured it out, but with Djay there was no figuring out to do, it just mapped the controls to do what you'd expect them to do. Sorry if this is a semi-off-topic rant, I guess my point is if Pioneer is going to force existing customers who already own a license to their software to pay them more to continue to use said software, it had better work absolutely flawlessly.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

This seems to be a theme that is emerging - many not actually that impressed with the software, so feel aggrieved when the terms of use change in a way that costs them more. People say they don't like subscriptions, for instance, but maybe they don't like subscriptions to things they need but aren't very happy with in the first place?

Engineered obsolescence … without notice at time of purchase. Which jurisdiction is Rekordbox head office in? In any case, public outcry/backlash required …

As a software developer, keeping older hardware supported can be taxing on resources. That being said this feels like a first step to going only subscription. I'd be willing to bet the "free" version will be gone within the next couple of updates. Less hardware being made, they have to find ways to keep revenue coming in.

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

the problem is that these are just controllers, that use midi. the controller can easily just ignore the features it doesnt know what to do with, and denon supports their newest OS on their older standalone units

@atypical_blk_guy

Ай бұрын

@@masterbond9 absolutely right. It's dirty but slightly genius of pioneer if you think about it. Everyone that bought the ddj 400 will most likely get the flex 4 instead of doing the subscription. That's a huge amount of money for the company.

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Interesting theory, let's see!

@masterbond9

Ай бұрын

@@atypical_blk_guy yea, and thats the problem. theyre going to get away with it for a little bit, but theyre just putting themselves in a risky position for themselves. all denon has to do is push out a better, more responsive flagship cdj. and while i havent personally messed with any of the newer gear yet, im really liking the way engineOS looks and feels. i dont think it would be difficult for them to slap that into a CDJ, maybe give it wifi and integrate streaming directly into it? hell why not give it a NIC? pioneer has been using ethernet to link everything for years now, why not just give it basic internet access? James Hype already said that he does not like the cdj3000s just recently

@ramonrichie9683

Ай бұрын

Well, seing if you pay a few bucks it suddenly works again, it seems more of a marketing decision.

As a user of rekordbox 6.8.5 with an DDJ-RR i''m double screwed! Can't even record my own sets anymore without upgrading to a subscription plan! Big fail for rekordbox!

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

It all still works in 6.8.5, right?

@thomascanton8257

Ай бұрын

@@digitaldjtips rekordbox works, but recording your own set is locked behind a subscription🤯

Can you still prep the music and use a usb in standalone without paying?

@digitaldjtips

Ай бұрын

Yes

First step into bringing all ppl using rekordbox with hardware to get a subscription plan. 100% this will come for every user.