I need to debrief myself: I made more of a point than I should have about which seat Erik was in. You can be a PIC from either seat. As a career-long fighter guy, I never had to think about left/right seat until I retired and moved to the airlines. In this tragedy, I’m not sure how much CFI time Erik had. Maybe he was very comfortable in the right seat, maybe not. His primary job for several months leading up to the crash was using his ATP as a PIC/SIC and not as a CFI. Either way, the flight shouldn’t have taken place, but when it did, James shouldn’t have been allowed on the controls on takeoff (assuming he was on them). I was only able to debrief myself because of your comments. So keep them coming. I try to read them all because I know I’m not perfect and your feedback helps me make the next video better. This terrible tragedy took place on April 9, 2018. My condolences to families and friends of everyone whose lives were lost that day and my hope is this debrief helps other pilots avoid a similar fate. If you want to learn more, then please check out these other pilot reckless mistakes! 👉Pilot Reckless Mistakes End in Deadly Disaster! kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZXemrNilnd2sgLw.html 👉 Pilot's Reckless Mistakes Caught on Camera! kzread.info/dash/bejne/c4B8o9hunZzWYco.html

@Theeporkchopxprezz

4 ай бұрын

I am James Pedroza's older brother. I had never expected to see this on your channel because it happened years ago. I had wondered if you had heard about it the other day and here we are. What you reported absolutely correct. I appreciate your point of view on this crash. Thank you for an honest evaluation of this crash.

@iancarisi8342

4 ай бұрын

As a fellow pilot and CFI with over 5,000 hours dual given, even when I fly with my friends for fun I sit in the right seat as I am more comfortable flying from the right seat.

@guy999

4 ай бұрын

I will tell you my certified flying instructor always flies from the right seat. He says he feels more comfortable over there.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

To James’s brother. Thank you for your comment and I’m sorry for your loss. I’m glad you found this to be an honest assessment as I always do my best to be as accurate as possible as I know friends and family of those in my videos, like you, might end up watching them.

@douglaswhitcomb9729

4 ай бұрын

Excellent points here. The 260 Comanche is also a complex/high performance airplane. It’s not what I would call a good choice for a primary training platform. Add to this a scenario where a student pilot who hasn’t soloed, an unfamiliar CFI, above maximum payload, high DA, an under performing engine, and high terrain that surrounds KSDL. The holes all lined up. I always talk about humility being the cornerstone of flight deck discipline and SMS. CFIs need to stress this on day one of training. I also brought this up in dialogue around the KA-350 accident at KADS. If you are involved with someone/something that you know doesn’t meet the basic requirements of aviation standards and safety, walk away from it. You really feel for those who were lost and their families. The passengers were just looking to have a great time. Thank you, Hoover. You’re a positive and impactful proponent of aviation safety and knowledge.

As a flight instructor I tell my students probably one of the most difficult maneuvers in flying isn't an actual maneuver. It's saying no when everyone wants you to say yes. Whether it's weight, weather, or whatever, it's really difficult to disappoint. Flying just doesn't tolerate too many mistakes. A very sad story for sure.

@Cunningstunts23

4 ай бұрын

Well said

@InmateHunterBiden

4 ай бұрын

Good to know. 🫡

@johnbravo7542

4 ай бұрын

You're the kind of pilot I want fly with.

@simonf8902

4 ай бұрын

As soon as you said student in left seat I went 😢

@amamdawhatever

4 ай бұрын

100% yes!!! Nothing will challenge a pilot more than saying "no"!

I get the feeling many accidents have one thing in common. Complete disegard for rules and SOP.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

Yep, definitely a big factor in a lot of mishaps!

@mikev4089

4 ай бұрын

Also these female pilots are not that good and smart people avoid them.

@Phiyedough

4 ай бұрын

I get the feeling that US culture tends to prioritise individual freedom above collective responsibility and there is consequently a fairly relaxed attitude to rules.

@H2R5GSXR

4 ай бұрын

Yes, you are correct. How I am still alive is a mystery to me.

@mikev4089

4 ай бұрын

@@Phiyedoughyeah, maybe you should move to North Korea where they really prioritize collectivism.

I'm not a pilot but have been an aircraft enthusiast since I was five years old (I'm 85 now). I find these Pilot Debrief videos some of the most interesting viewing on this platform. Thank you Hoover.

Flying is like boating; it is unforgiving. No matter how many times you have done a task, the 1st time you make a mistake it might be your last. I quit flying because it was not practical for me any longer. We had a small plane I could fly,but when it came to renting one it got to be too much. I have flown with pilots who have a lot of experience, so they take shot cuts to get in the air. I flew with a plot who flew between Maine to Boston running a diaper service. He used to joke the plane could fly itself because of the number of flight he had made. A few weeks after I quit to return to college, he flipped the tops off some trees while coming into land at a friends runway. He tried to recover the plane but it was too damaged to climb. He was killed when the plane nose dived into a barn and burst into flames. He was 55 years old and a former fighter pilot. His wife sold his other planes,and never allowed his kids to fly. His youngest is a pilot for Ryan Air in Europe and I see him once or twice a year. He is the only one who flies,but he has told me many times that his dad's death made him a by the book pilot who never skips a step. He even declares silence on landing and take off in his private plane. I write this to say you do a service with these videos,and I would bet you have saved lives with the information and advice you give. So, thanks.

@Chicharrera.

14 күн бұрын

I demand silence while driving my car. If I'm driving I don't allow any talking to me, no radio, no eating, nobody is allowed to touch their phones. I don't want a single distraction while I'm driving. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't get to sit in my car. It's non negotiable. I'm 53 years old and have never been in a crash.

@lawv804

5 күн бұрын

​@Chicharrera. Your car, your rules. I've been called lame and a nerd for making all my passengers buckle their seatbelts

@WiscoKnight0806

4 күн бұрын

@@lawv804 My life was saved by the belt twice, because no matter how safe you are, other people can ruin your day. I refuse to move my vehicle until everyone is buckled up. Cousin of mine thought it would be cute to unbuckle after we got on the road, so I pulled over and we sat there until he buckled. No exceptions.

Being in the Air Force myself, it’s nice seeing our pilots out here putting out clear and concise information about mishaps. Keep it up!

@jerryboics9550

4 ай бұрын

You dudes lost a jet fighter plane a month ago and had to appeal to the public to help find it ..

@davidlawson3400

4 ай бұрын

@@jerryboics9550 I’m not a pilot and that wasn’t the Air Force.

@fornhunkle

4 ай бұрын

​@@jerryboics9550 the thing crashed... You act like someone stole it or literally lost it

@cagneybillingsley2165

4 ай бұрын

as standards decline across the board, this will happen more and more

@user-de7mb9rn9w

4 ай бұрын

Gay

Here in Brazil a lot of fishermen rent planes to take them into remote areas for fishing. Usually on Senecas, they ALWAYS try to take the fish back with them and the pilot ALWAYS has to explain that the plane is not a car or truck. Just because there is space it doesnt mean the plane can carry it. Cargo capacity is by weight, not volume.

@MixologistMilo

4 ай бұрын

Great example 👍

@jamescaron6465

4 ай бұрын

And balance. 25kg in the wrong spot can shift the center of gravity to the point to where that plane isn’t gonna be stable

@jjr1728

4 ай бұрын

​@@jamescaron6465and labradors. It's always good practice to have a labrador with you as labradors bring good luck and are a pilots best friend

@renancervi7954

12 күн бұрын

I would be disappointed at the pilot if they tell me that just after I was done fishing, it’s the whole purpose of the trip! They could have said no before taking off.

@Omni_Shambles

9 күн бұрын

Where I'm from you use a boat to go fishing. You Brazilians should try it sometime. 🤣🤡

I take a shot every time you say “we’ll talk more about this later” in your videos. I’m now deceased.

@apodolsky08

2 ай бұрын

😂

@calicatus7556

2 ай бұрын

🤣

@Cyntdarling

2 ай бұрын

I know. I was like where are we going now Jeez lol he talking in circles

@teddyt

2 ай бұрын

yet here you are...🙄🤡

@simrdownmon6431

2 ай бұрын

You should try using tequila instead of you glock.

As a former saftey instructor, I find your videos immensley instructive in the purpose of any training period, to prevent injury, destruction of property, and loss of life or live's. Thank You for maintaining the seriousness of being safe and responsible. MOST EXCELLENT!!!

As a long-time instructor, examiner, private, and commercial, this reminded me of a sad incident which started in the UK and ended in four deaths in a field in France almost 35 years ago. The low-hours owner and pilot of a Becch Bonanza was planning a trip to the South of France with his wife and two teenage daughters. I was in charge of the FTO on the field but had no authority over private pilots and privately owned aircraft. I knew the owner, mostly by sight, and asked him whether he needed any advice in the planning room. I was alarmed that the synoptic showed a well-defined cold front over France, which was positioned 90 degrees to his track, and he would be approaching from the cold sector and that he would be flying VFR as he was not instrument rated. I asked him to seriously consider the flight as he would almost certainly encounter cloud associated with the front. His response was that the Bonanza was a powerful aircraft and he would climb above the cloud. And off they went. Three hours later they were all dead.

@Deadfoot-Dan

4 ай бұрын

Reckless arrogance has led to many deaths. Some folks are just not the kind of people who should be in charge of others safety.

@richardkudrna7503

4 ай бұрын

Climb above the cloud on his VFR ticket. Sad.

@davebox588

4 ай бұрын

Was he maybe on an FAA license/certificate? Otherwise 'VFR on top' is not a thing here. Also, up to maybe FL300 in a Bonanza? Craziness.

@Pete-tq6in

4 ай бұрын

There seems to be a personality issue with a lot of low time pilots who can afford to buy high performance aircraft. The sort of people with that kind of wealth are used to getting their own way and they’re extremely self-assured. They’ve succeeded financially and socially better than the vast majority and they develop superiority complexes as a result. This invariably leads them to get into dangerous situations that a more level-headed and less self-confident pilot wouldn’t. Also, most pilots who start flying with limited resources tend to likewise be constrained to flying aircraft with limited performance, which completely remove the option of flying above bad weather and tend to give the low-time pilot a bit more decision making time. ‘Get-there-itis’ is a confirmed killer, as is the need to show off in front of pretty girls. It seems that both of these were factors in this unfortunate incident.

@tomarmstrong1281

4 ай бұрын

@@Pete-tq6in My personal experience leads me to agree in all departments. Sadly there is no cure for the overestimation of personal ability. Also right seat/left seat is an Airline thing. It ought not to matter overly in the private field, except maybe for complex types with a panel layout customised by an advanced owner/ pilot.

Having more than 3000 hours of flight, even thinking about doing flight lessons in a overgrossed out of CG , with 6 people at night is enoght to preventing me from sleep tonight. This was one crazy flight.

@mr.ginnationfunlifestyle3891

4 ай бұрын

And one stupid instructor with a dandy student pilot. What a horrible Szenario.

@johnl9977

4 ай бұрын

It's OK, there are plenty of up and coming "Influencers" ready to take their place. They are already forgotten by now.

@ChasingRainbows67

4 ай бұрын

​@@johnl9977... Yup, everyday!!

@OnerousEthic

4 ай бұрын

…not to mention Density Altitude of 3,300 msl!

@therealrobinc

4 ай бұрын

​​@@OnerousEthicyou're so right! DA must be understood & respected. It affects the performance envelope of your aircraft by altering the stall speed & rate of climb.

I think it's no coincidence this flight was directed to Vegas. This is about a casual, almost reckless approach to flying. Here's then how even the traces of drugs in the student pilot became relevant: not directly, but as a symptom of a wrong attitude. Imagine for instance Eric deciding to abort the flight. The reactions from the passengers, the trouble trying to explain the highly irregular situation to airport authorities...

I don't know if "enjoy" is the correct word, because Hoover's videos always detail some tragedy, but I do find these to be interesting and informative. Every student pilot should be required to watch these to hopefully learn not to make the mistakes that may kill them and their passengers. Great work from Pilot Debrief.

@placidbeach

3 ай бұрын

Amen to that I've been flying many decades but not enough hours only 600 or so. But I've always flown in spurts with a lot of instruction each time to get back in the air. But the more years go by without flying regularly enough, and the more videos like this I watch, the more nervous I get and the more I want to just give up flying. It scares the crap out of me which is a good thing I guess.

It’s shocking to me just how many people treat aviation so recklessly. It’s not a game. As tragic as the loss of life was, what if they plowed into a house or a crowded store? Aircraft are engineered with limits for a reason. If you don’t obey those limitations, you are a fool. No way in hell I’d climb in that plane with 5 passengers. And if no weight and balance was performed, inexcusable.

@tjroelsma

4 ай бұрын

Could it be that private aviation is so common in the US? I mean: the sheer number of privately own and flown aircraft is staggering, which might make it seem to aspiring pilots that "flying is as easy as driving a car" and therefore they severely underestimate the risks and dangers of flying. If your car is overweight, that's not much of a problem, but especially in small airplanes, weight is a crucial factor.

@daves4589

4 ай бұрын

@@tjroelsma I think you are exactly correct. I live by a general aviation airport and it’s incredible how busy it is. I think some do equate flying to driving as the old saying goes, “it’s safer”. But it’s only safer when you stick to the protocols and limits. This appears to be a young guy wanting to show off for some pretty girls and a young instructor scared to say no. Seems to be not so out of the ordinary and that’s scary. As instructor, you are ultimately responsible. Grow a pair and say no. I do understand though that the vast majority of instructors are by the book. So not a criticism of all.

@e.l.norton

4 ай бұрын

In brief, people are STUPID. Not reckless. They're stupid. Flat-out imbeciles. People don't know what they don't know, and they're perfectly fine with that. Knowledge is so totally "Boomer". Oh, my Goooood. It's cool to be a moron.

@kch01-oo4xe

4 ай бұрын

A lot of these incidents are caused by a series of events where the person responsible has repeatedly ignored the rules/SOP’s. People get away with small things, which then snowball into bigger things, until you start taking massive risks which will inevitably lead to people being killed.

@dallasbristol62

4 ай бұрын

Hate to say it but FAFO. Humans are notoriously stupid.

Years ago, I belonged to a flying club that had two Comanche 260s, and three Piper Arrows. The Comanches had a thrilling amount of power and a reputation for being able to takeoff no matter what you were able to cram in the door. However, one of the reasons I'm still around today is because I refused to exceed the weight restrictions in the Pilot Operating Handbook.

@richardkudrna7503

4 ай бұрын

Exactly. Any exceeded limit reduces margins. Sure a twin can actually take off overweight, but what happens with one engine out? Is it even flyable? I talked to a pilot who told me his turn radius by turning into his good engine was miles. Tower was asking him what he was doing, answer was “flying safely”.

@zipper978

4 ай бұрын

Well no shit. You should never exceed limits. If you do you’re a dumbass

@mowtivatedmechanic1172

4 ай бұрын

@@richardkudrna75032-5 degrees bañó into the good engine typically when an engine dies. Regular turning is around 20-30°’s for context.

@theboiiiiiiiiiiiiii3870

4 ай бұрын

Fly straight ahead don’t turn! Loved the Comanche 400 but the 250/260 was the better joice

@dwaynemcallister7231

4 ай бұрын

If that Comanche had been firing on all cylinders it may not have ended this way, and as Hoover said, setting it back on the runway was the correct thing to do here, otherwise on the available power it would have required perfect technique and even then, flight safety was not assured. The aft C of G would make it sensitive in pitch.

Great content. As someone who has read about, and watched many different bad things that can happen anytime, anywhere in the world, the best advice I can give is: Take your time doing proper checks, take your time driving, whether it's a plane, truck, motorcycle, drone, bicycle, boat, or any vehicle. A few minutes of irritation, road rage, "being a wet blanket", or annoyance is not worth a life, or lives lost. We seem to live in a world where we all have to keep rushing to our next quest, and finishing it as quickly as possible in the game of life. Except it's no game. Take your time. Don't road rage. Do things the proper way. Don't dwell on the minor things. I truly wish for the best for us all. But the cynical side of me usually wins.

A guy being foolish to impress “little” girls. That flashy tat spoke volumes. You can’t undo fatal errors made on the ground once airborne. A plane/flight is an extension of a pilot’s personal input and control. No control here.

@josepablolunasanchez1283

12 күн бұрын

About 40 years ago I knew about 2 accidents where pilot tried to impress a tourist woman in Costa Rica. One flew too close to the steep cone of an active volcano and a side wind threw him against the cone. The other one tried to fly near ground, probably playing Luke Skywalker skimming the surface on the death star, but he did not have an ekranoplane and ground effect killed them. Tragic and sad and avoidable.

@u1teixeirat559

9 күн бұрын

Fiquei em dúvida em marcar seu comentário como "gostei", ainda que sua afirmação tenha um fundo de verdade, porém o fiz. O fato é que quando se é jovem e se vê belas garotas, milhões de coisas passam pela cabeça, e as possibilidades do pós-vôo pareciam boas demais para serem desperdiçadas. Infelizmente, essa atitude individual de um dos ocupantes do vôo, resultou na perda de todas essas vidas. Trágico e devastador para suas famílias.

@Kwauhn.

6 күн бұрын

I disagree about his appearance being telling. Your capability as a pilot is conveyed through your actions, and the "flashiness" of your tattoos is completely irrelevant.

Anyone that’s begging you to go on a flight to a nightclub is probably not someone that is capable of making good decisions/judgment

@onemoremisfit

4 ай бұрын

And the report said the student pilot having hard drugs in his system was probably not a factor in the crash, but that fact would raise questions of decision/judgement insofar as allowing him to be a student pilot or at the controls of the aircraft at all. The whole flight was a party junket of reckless attitudes in an overloaded bad engine aircraft.

@stefkadank-derpjr1453

4 ай бұрын

Not to mention the cocaine and ecstasy. I'm an old lady now, I've never done ecstasy, I wasn't a saint at that age but I also wasn't attempting to learn to fly an airplane. Reminds me of the Aaliyah crash, short trip, pilot not very experienced with the airplane, low levels of cocaine in his blood, 7 passengers in airplane with 6 seats. The passengers included a music video crew with their various equipment---camera crew, make up artist, costume artist, body guard. Flight lasting just about one minute. Many things done NOT the correct way ends horribly.

One of the best aviation qoute"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

@moosecat

4 ай бұрын

I'm a dried up Merchant Marine. One of the sayings I had to learn in college was: "The sea is selective: slow in recognition of effort and achievement, but fast in sinking the unfit." I guess the more modern equivalent to that is "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

@dre32pitt

4 ай бұрын

Dudes will do almost anything and ignore warning signs when the possibility of getting laid, let alone getting laid by 1 or more IG stars... that lil head is going to override a lot of common sense

@dre32pitt

4 ай бұрын

@@mikecollon100 I think in this case.. the potential of laying with one or more of the IG models was too much and the lil heads took over and overrode logic.. pretty normal if you think about it.

@LTVoyager

4 ай бұрын

@@mikecollon100Isn’t that true of every thing in life? Pretty much everything bad that happens to us is due to a bad choice somewhere along the way.

@davidferrara1105

2 ай бұрын

well said @mikecollon100

"Make sure you guys aren't overweight or anything." James: "How do I do that?" He really just asked that question. A guy who wants to be a pilot cannot figure out how to add and subtract. Apparently, James spent more time in the tattoo parlor than school.

@rturner9

Ай бұрын

Also spent more time with his nose in the booger sugar, popping ecstasy, and chasing Instagram models.

@TRUTHandLIGHT4809

Ай бұрын

James was a show off with no experience and Erik let him

@Mysterious-Outdoors

29 күн бұрын

Pretty lame of you to insult a dead man. Reaching new lows as a society each day and your part of that.

@rturner9

29 күн бұрын

@@Mysterious-Outdoors pretty lame of James to take the lives of 4 innocent people because he couldn’t see through his ego enough to do some simple calculations that would have saved everyone and allowed these young folks to continue enjoying life and their parents could hug and kiss their children again. The lows we are reaching as a society are what James is a part of. Aviation safety is paid for in blood and the only silver lining here is that others within the aviation community won’t let senseless accidents like this happen again. James is lucky he crashed on a golf course at night and not directly into the highway, murdering countless others.

@jimhaney6384

14 күн бұрын

​@Mysterious-Outdoors dumbasses die every day. You aren't a saint for dying, everybody dies, there are more dumbasses than smart asses. Smartasses live to gloat, so...

It’s hard to believe that it’s been 6 years since this horrific accident. Helena was my best friend, and I miss her so much. She was more than a “part-time model.” Helena was at the top of her class in her business program at UNLV. A decorated scholar, and business owner. She launched Rebel Fruits, an international produce importing business that was beginning to take off. She was so close to graduating college. But most importantly, she was a devoted daughter and only child. Her loss continues to be felt deeply by her family everyday. If you’re reading this, say a prayer for her mom. It doesn’t get easier. RIH Helena 💜

@helbent4

Ай бұрын

Please accept my condolences. All those people have stories and had lives and families.

@meep3709

Ай бұрын

Beautiful tribute. Wishing you the best❤

@f.l3450

Ай бұрын

Prayers to her loved ones for their loss. 😢

@kreterakete

Ай бұрын

Hugs from bohemian forest. ❤

@alucardcount9478

Ай бұрын

Y was she attracted to drug fuelled tattoos....

I once had a delightful conversation with Yvonne Craig, the actress, who was a kind, funny, and very smart lady. She told me that whenever she was flying in a plane small enough that she had to give her weight, she always added 20 pounds to it because she knew that there would always be one or two people who would underestimate theirs.

@sister_bertrille911

4 ай бұрын

@@deruberschwarze3943 Heh. She was a very practical lady!

@mowtivatedmechanic1172

4 ай бұрын

We add 10lbs to all weights too 😂

@sarahalbers5555

4 ай бұрын

She was so right.

@andreahighsides7756

4 ай бұрын

They should make people stand on a scale. You can fluctuate 10lbs of water weight pretty easily and I have a pair of chippewa boots that weighs 6lbs. Pretty common for regular jeans and a jacket to be 6-8lbs, heavy clothing could be a lot more.

@Currancchs

4 ай бұрын

Great idea! I think I'll do this next time I'm in a similar situation.

An other lesson learned: stay away from people who call themselves influencers and people who claim to have bought a plane but actually only bought a fractional interest.

@EdwardSnortin

4 ай бұрын

The world needs less "influencers" so I see this as a win.

@sl-nz3kh

2 ай бұрын

Exactly what a looser.

@ryanduray1

2 ай бұрын

​@bearinch Definitely not a good idea to jump in a plane when the guy behind the stick does blow and X, unless it's Denzel Washington.

@sgtjonzo

Ай бұрын

​@@EdwardSnortinyou're talking about 4 people who died horrifically here, have some fucking respect

@helbent4

Ай бұрын

@@sgtjonzo Six people. I was going to make a similar joke about how influencers don't count. But even I have standards.

This is so scary and watching that footage gave me goosebumps. Did this twice back in the early 2010s in HS when friend got their pilot license. But he told me about being very meticulous in preparations and never rushing through protocol.

Wow, stumbled upon this video while looking for something else. First of all, subbed. Secondly, there's an adage that many people learn fairly early in life when it comes to making decisions: "It is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." However, what people often miss is that its creator (the great Grace Hopper) was ultimately referring to doing the right thing. The ability to say no despite fear of eliciting disdain or dislike is effectively the contrapositive to Hopper's words. We all probably find ourselves facing that dilemma, but doing it in a literal life-or-death situation is a taller ask. One of my best friends is just like you: a retired USAF pilot who now flies for a commercial airliner. He has always had a relatively devil-may-care attitude to him, but not when it comes to flight. This channel is pretty much a public service for many people, so good on ya.

@LesterHall-kx2yt

Ай бұрын

Why fly a plane that old? Anything could go wrong.

Watching your channel has brought so many memories back flying with my Dad. He had been a flight instructor my whole life. My flying time with him one summer when I was 15 was on Tues and Thursdays. He flew to a resort about 1 hr away to give flying lessons to surrounding pilots. He ALWAYS did his check list. I asked him why he did that and his answer was... it's too easy to overlook something. I am so grateful to the Lord for protecting my Dad during all his years of being an instructor. He passed in 2017 and alot of his students attended his funeral. He was an Awesome Dad and a Great instructor!!!!

@mskat1954

4 ай бұрын

Have memories of flying with my dad too. Lots of flight hours. My dad had the 1st helicopter service at Lake Tahoe in the late 60s

@ViaSandee

4 ай бұрын

@cyndymalouf1638 ... Cyndy, so sorry to hear your Dad passed away - my Father passed away a few months ago. Both my parents were private pilots, but I never got a chance to fly with either of them - and they were also "by the book". My father even had notes on the dashboard of his truck, sorta like a mini check list. Anyway, your comment reminded me of my Dad, sigh. All the best! ❤‍🩹

@ahole5388

4 ай бұрын

sounds exciting

@ahole5388

4 ай бұрын

​@@mskat19540:18 sounds exciting

@hogglinebulldoggs361

4 ай бұрын

In sorry for your loss sounds like he was a great man ❤

I actually face-palmed when you showed the back row HAD NO SEATS. Too many questions about why this flight went ahead.

@richardpetty9159

4 ай бұрын

The people in the back were cargo.

@paladinhill

4 ай бұрын

The Commanche 260C has 4 normal seats and an additional two seats which consist of seat cushions on a ledge with back cushions for comfort. All 6 seats have FAA approved seat belts. The rearmost 2 seats were designed for children or small adults. The seats were not the problem, nor were the passengers. The weight & balance and CG issues were the key factors, along with a/c familiarity, night flight, and a weak engine, as well as PIC judgement. Hard to believe an ATP would have conducted this flight.

@CharlesFreck

4 ай бұрын

Money. It went ahead for money. "Oh you don't want to do an instructional flight tonight? You have reservations about this situation? How about I pay you an extra $1000 dollars in cash right now?". Money can make someone forget a lot of reservations.

@bobfangio4713

4 ай бұрын

Darwinism is uncaring and unforgiving, but effective.

@golfwhiskey871

4 ай бұрын

@@paladinhillsounds about as dangerous an attitude as those killed. Just because a light aircraft may be a hare within the maximum legal Weight & CG doesn’t make it prudent or wise with others lives that are trusting you to demonstrate good judgment and safety margins. I have a 324HP 6 seat 185 Skywagon with a useful load of 1,600lbs, 400 more than this plane. I’ll fly at gross, I don’t like it, and never with 6 passengers!

Another great video from you, thank you. There are so many mistakes in this entire sequence that it's hard to digest them all. I live here, and it was all over the news. We played the golf course the next week and there was still a giant burn smudge. 6 sets of parents devastated.

Thank you for uploading these videos. It's interesting enough for me to stop watching my usual videos and replace them with yours. Huge fan.

I have been a pilot for 57 years, and years ago I owned the same type of aircraft (Comanche 260). A couple of corrections: The Comanche 260 was available from the factory with the rear seats mentioned in the video. It had 6 sets of seatbelts and the aircraft was certified to carry 6 people. However, there is a weight limitation to the rear seat area (which also serves as the baggage compartment). As I recall it was 125 or 150 pounds, which limited the rear seat to at most one adult or two children. Since both the instructor pilot and the student had almost zero experience with this aircraft, they were probably ignorant of this weight limit. By illegally putting two adults in the rear seats, the airplane was automaitically overloaded and out of balance. Clearly they did not do a weight and balance calculation as required by FAA regulations. Likewise, the instructor's unfamiliarity with the aircraft may be why he was unaware that the engine was not producing full power. If he had been in experienced in the aircraft, he may have known that the performance he was getting the first time flew it was sub-par. Second correction, this aircraft was not a 1964 Comanche as mentioned on the video. The FAA recoirds show it as a 1970 A-24-260 Comanche. This fact is trivial and did not contribute to the accident. The risk factors on this flight were many and compounded each other. An overloaded and out of balance aircraft, flown by a student and commanded by a pilot inexperienced in the aircraft, at night, and without proper pre-flight preparation. What could go possibly wrong? The fact that the engine was not making full power was a contributor to the accident, but the outcome would almost surely been the same even if the engine were 100%. As soon as all those people boarded the airplane, this flight was doomed. Very sad.

@lightwaters

4 ай бұрын

How come aircrafts like this requiring a weight balance dont show an instrument saying aircraft above required weight limit....The Industry should mandate all old aircrafts to have simple measures like this built in to mitigate such scenarios from happening.......elevators have this built in ...I am shocked an aircraft a flying elevator essentially does not

@fredbloggs545

4 ай бұрын

@@lightwaters Or signage indicating the weight limit of each seat.

@darrinkulyk9560

4 ай бұрын

Think Proper Loading Is PART Of The Preflight .

@ZeitGeist_TV

4 ай бұрын

​@@lightwatersYou can also add that the pilot was clearly showing off and that peer pressure and narcissistic behavior wouldn't allow him to simply abort the takeout. To have nearly a mile of runway left and not immediately abort is crazy.

@MoneyLine_Clay

4 ай бұрын

@lightwaters or…. They could do the weight and balance, a required item to fly any aircraft legally… and you don’t have this happen.

This would have so easily been avoided with better judgement. 6 adults in a Comanche sounds like a recipe for disaster and a pilot with that level of experience should have been damn sure about the weights and balance when intuition suggests they’d likely be overweight. The urge to not be a wet blanket in front of the IG models may have been what cost them their lives.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

It was surprising to me that without real seats in the back that they thought it was a good idea to try that flight.

@user-it7lf7kk8m

4 ай бұрын

Two extra passengers behind the normal ones isn't going to do CG calcs much good.

@tommytutone2584

4 ай бұрын

Rip, but these younger folks have no common sense at all....plus any type of so called social media influencer does NOT have my respect.

@steveo20007

4 ай бұрын

The drive for pussy has killed so many people thoughout history. Sad

@carlwilliams6977

4 ай бұрын

​@@pilot-debriefMore 'thinking" is being done by AI devices than internet influencers lately, and most trips to Vegas are not "good ideas"!😊 Wasn't the "instructor" breaking the law by not having restraints for the rear passengers?

Instagram influencer deaths, I'm not sure the world can ever recover from such a loss 😞

@shrapnel77

2 ай бұрын

It's very hard to like influencers.

Another Reckless mistake is to ever take those so-called influencers with you anywhere.

@Kwauhn.

6 күн бұрын

Why? You're responsible for your own actions as a pilot. This story would be no different if the pilot agreed to fly 6 accountants under the same conditions. The pilot got everyone killed, not the influencer.

It's getting harder and harder to tell people, particularly young ones, that rules exist for good reasons. But I guess when you're rich enough to afford flight lessons, stake in your own plane, and a cocaine habit, rules mean even less.

@NoSaysJo

4 ай бұрын

Yall drank lead..

@OnceShy_TwiceBitten

4 ай бұрын

huh?@@NoSaysJo

@andyharpist2938

4 ай бұрын

Especially when they are social media stars or have been overprotected from lifes lessons for all their little lives.

@E_Static

4 ай бұрын

​@@NoSaysJoAnd yall take or need drugs for ADHD/ADD

@NoSaysJo

4 ай бұрын

@E_Static nah I'm chilling bruh, wbu?

I am not a pilot but you are so clear on explaining everything i can pretty much understand everything in your commentary.

@fidelcatsro6948

4 ай бұрын

Same same

@KimtheElder

4 ай бұрын

I feel the same and it clarifies that I would never pass a pilots examination. So many details, so much calculation. Mad respect for pilots. 🫡😊

@BillGreenAZ

4 ай бұрын

He was so clear on explaining everything that I feel I can fly now. :D

I must be brutally honest, when watching your channel for the first time my thoughts were: 1. This guy is too young to have all that knowledge. 2. This guy is too young to have retired from the Air Force.spent 3. This guy is too young to have graduated from the Air Force Academy. 4. This guy is too young to have done all that stuff, AND fly the F-18 AND fly the F-15 Strike Eagle. 5. Oh yea, he now flys for an Airline after doing all that stuff. Boy was I wrong. You are one special man. I am only guessing how you got call sign " Hoover". You sucked up information like nobody's business making everyone else look silly. I'm not a pilot and don't intend to be one, I just like watching interesting presentations. Respect for you.

I respect your post accident debriefings, and want to thank you for your dedication to aviation safety. I have one point that concerns this and so many other accidents, a point in which seems to be missed most of the time. It simply involves a pilots decision to initiate a turn while low to the ground and at a low airspeed. Looking at the radar return of this flight, this is one of the factors that led to the crash. Banking, turning an airplane increases its stall speed. Even a slight 10 degree bank angle can put the airplane into a stall, given the right circumstances. As a CFII of 32 years, I place a huge emphasis on this with all of those who I instruct. The temptation to start a turn back to the runway, while low and slow is a fatal mistake. I drill, 1) power confirmed full forward, prop full fine, gear up 2) push the nose down 3) pick a point to land straight ahead.. I want to see the first 2 points achieved immediately, no hesitation. As for picking a point to land, knowing the airport surroundings and being able to tell me the most viable place to land as part of the pre departure briefing is a must. Using the excuse, unfamiliar with the airport and area after departure is no excuse and an immediate fail.

I love watching your videos and here are a few reasons for that. You don't waste my time with pointless opening sequences etc. You get to the point and share detailed but relevant information. I can learn and understand everything there is to know about a situation in a short amount of time. I appreciate your work and your approach to making videos. You respect my time and I respect you for that.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for that!

@kevinallen1699

4 ай бұрын

Same ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

@RM-el3gw

4 ай бұрын

Agreed, it's great you keep things simple and straight to the point. @@pilot-debrief

@atticusgq

4 ай бұрын

I agree

@bballhlightz2964

4 ай бұрын

I’m not a pilot but I enjoy your videos for the same reason. Very informative and you do a great job of explaining to make even non pilots understand what went wrong and just how complex flying is. It makes me appreciate all my safe flights I have had in my life!

As soon as you said social media influencer that was all I needed to know. Yes Eric should have said no.

Great video Hoover as always. Your analyses are always succinct and brilliant. I love the way you state the immediate cause(s) of the crash but then go on to talk about the underlying and the root causes. So many accounts of accidents and incidents are misleadingly superficial; stopping after identifying the immediate cause. This tends to feed the fallacy that every problem is caused by some "bloody fool" - get rid of them and you get rid of the problem. Not so.

The growing incompetence in this world is extremely scary....

I did my private pilot's license when I was 17, with the intention of becoming a commercial pilot. I quickly realized that piloting an aircraft is a weighty responsibility and takes a lot of effort, diligence and intelligence to do safely. I struggled with some elements of flying and I found the instructors to be largely disinterested in actually teaching proficiency. I decided not to pursue a career in flying. Now 55, I spent my working life dealing with both people and machinery, and given their inherent shortcomings am genuinely surprised that flying-related accidents and deaths are not much higher.

@user-vd5fq6tf2b

4 ай бұрын

you literally have zero knowledge on being a pilot and you use to be one?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? how could you possibly be surprised ????????????? its a fucking computer flying the plane like did you just fall out of the stoneage or?

@fritzmuller8246

4 ай бұрын

As a 747 driver I can assure you , you did well and made the right decision in my opinion

@sugar_tomato

4 ай бұрын

This doesn't help with my flying anxiety at all 😅

@wills7817

4 ай бұрын

"Driver" ​@@fritzmuller8246

@almightyem8757

4 ай бұрын

⁠@@fritzmuller8246why is that? Is it not worth it in your opinion?

Just seems like a prime example of the reckless narcissism of the social media generation. However, I’ve met pilots in their 50’s who treat flying with the same recklessness. There’s a difference between confidence and arrogance.

@StringerCourier

4 ай бұрын

That's the lesson I'm starting to take away from the increasing number of tragic accidents that involve "influencers" and "social media stars" who rate their lives not in experience or common sense but in "followers" and "patreon supporters" and a huge amount of unwarranted wealth.

@JungleYT

4 ай бұрын

*I like that, "a difference between confidence and arrogance..." Well said...*

@williammullinax6130

4 ай бұрын

Yeah... Because people weren't being reckless while flying before social media... As you state, this isn't a generational issue. There has always been and there will always be those who are reckless regardless of generation. If anything GA is safer today than previous generations...

@180mph9

4 ай бұрын

This accident is cut and dry, the PIC made several bad decisions, the partial owner was not at fault, as he was technically only a passenger.

@vaderladyl

4 ай бұрын

They are hardly "stars" , just social media content creators@@StringerCourier

The observation of witnesses that the aircraft looked unstable but then smoothed out would make sense if Erik let James take off and then realizing he was out of his pay grade; took over. That the plane still crashed with possibly Erik at the controls still makes sense. Erik was apparently stressed about the flight before even boarding; at the last minute he is possibly presented with a request from James to fly the take off. The take off itself is interrupted by the controller(for good reason) so at the same time that Erik is possibly trying to salvage the takeoff, he also has to respond to the controller. I doubt everyone in the plane were absolutely quiet during this time which would add even more confusion. Once achieving some measure of stability(briefly) Erik is then met with the limits of the plane which were not only overloaded, but probably had somewhat compromised power due to the broken valve spring. Add to that that it appeared to be a nighttime flight, so visibility for situational awareness was reduced. Your previous videos citing the dangerous attitudes of pilots seems to be at play here as well. James may have had a dose of macho wanting to impress the girls and Erik wanting to complete the mission even though his instincts were probably saying to decline the flight.

@Vickzq

26 күн бұрын

There is almost always more going on than people assume. The _girlies_ certainly _selfied_ and screamed later.

That flight was meant to be a “LOOK AT ME!” moment for their egos on social media.

There’s bound to be more cell phone footage from inside the plane. Her phone was recovered, there’s no way an IG influencer isn’t recording that takeoff from the back seat.

@nogames8982

2 ай бұрын

I am sure that all four passengers had their phones going at once.

@alwaysflying6540

Ай бұрын

I agree

@cinyarko

Ай бұрын

Most modern phones are encrypted so unless these influencers had no password/pin/fingerprint the data is likely inaccessible.

@alwaysflying6540

Ай бұрын

@cinyarko on what planet, lol. Police and emergency services can access your phone with no problems

@cinyarko

Ай бұрын

@@alwaysflying6540 is that why governments around the world are trying to make E2E encryption illegal?

Tragic loss of six young men and ladies, watching this channel had made me more aware as a passenger on a race team , we fly in twin engine king air and I always sit where I can see the pilot and listen to him on the head sets, the information from this channel helps and makes me more aware of what’s going on ! Thank you

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

You’re most welcome!

@LetsAct2013

4 ай бұрын

More like tragic loss of Eric. Can’t say I shed a tear for the other 5 narcissists.

Thank you so very much for making known the pros @ cons involved with flying. My son is a student pilot working towards his PPL he is not scared of your message & education about becoming a pilot my sons focus is “if it predictable it’s preventable..! “

This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌

A plane full of Instagram stars? Legends in their own mind. 🤦🏻‍♂️

@Crowbrother7

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, like what could go wrong!

@Kazuya720

4 ай бұрын

Anyway, at least 4 innocent people did for nothing. Famous or not.

@robarmstrong5404

4 ай бұрын

"Stars"

@awxiety

4 ай бұрын

Hate on instagram influencers all you want but they are using modern technologies to make more money than ever before using the internet. Your lack of appreciation for young entrepreneurs using new tools to leverage their careers is not a healthy mindset

@michealtimmann88

4 ай бұрын

@@awxiety valid point it's just that theyre usually not very smart when it comes to the real world

My son in law is a navy pilot. We rented a small aircraft to fly to Palm Springs from SD for lunch. An old guy from WW2 and a pilot, heard of our plans and cautioned us that the wind was too strong and dangerous and to not go. Of course, we listened to him and flew to Carlsbad instead.

@iwaswrongabouteveryhthing

4 ай бұрын

nice

@tysonpadilla8406

4 ай бұрын

Yeah man, the Santanas get pretty bad out there over the mountains!! Take it from me lol I used to fly a Cherokee 140 out of KSEE

@gulfstream7235

4 ай бұрын

Good to hear the son in law, regardless of his experience, took advice from an old timer

@kimchristensen3727

4 ай бұрын

Good choice. The Banning Pass can be a dangerous roller coaster often with severe turbulence.

@benjaminperez1149

4 ай бұрын

@@kimchristensen3727 it was in the winter and that desert wind meeting that cold mountain air was just a recipe for disaster and that exactly what the old veteran said.

⭐️🏆⭐️ You did a brilliant job telling this story! You provided excellent information, photos, video & extra notations. TY!

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” George Santayana.

The unsaid thing about this scenario is what peer/social pressure was placed on the licensed pilot. I can almost promise that the "VIP Casino Guy" sitting in the command seat was exhibiting all sorts of "Alpha" behavior to impress the attractive women on the flight, and that the real pilot was ground down to accept this scenario as what was going to happen. Wanting to look good in front of others and being a "people pleaser" is what killed every one of them.

@MrYport

4 ай бұрын

no doubt. probably why he took the conventional captains seat, and wanted to do the take off

@austinlevi3452

4 ай бұрын

Yea, still Erik’s fault in the end as the only licensed pilot. And you’re making a lot of assumptions here. I may agree that you’re probably right but it’s still best not to assume. Like my mother always said when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

@gextreme2381

4 ай бұрын

Honestly, doesn't matter if that happened or not. Even if they were both professional and not showing off and there was no alpha behavior they were doomed because they were too heavy. I also agree left/right seat doesn't matter in situation - it's who had control of the aircraft. The fact is that weight was calculated wrong, they missed a heavy person and had, no luggage in the calc ! I also can't imagine that a proper run up wouldn't have shown a cylinder problem, but perhaps, with only flying the plan once he might not have - or he did not do, one. Which was the first hole in the Swiss cheese. So sad, condolences to the family and friends. source: am PPL.

@johndor7793

4 ай бұрын

@@gextreme2381 How can you say they were doomed from being too heavy if they lifted off the ground? I would assume the mistake they made was turning the aircraft before it gained maximum speed

@gwkdad

4 ай бұрын

100% agreement. From the Look what I just bought embellishment to the drug life and under-reporting the weight, this kid was an accident waiting to happen. Too bad Eric has to take 100% of the blame, but ultimately he failed to protect precious cargo.

I worked at Scottsdale Airport at the time, and I remember this accident well. This is the first time I've seen a breakdown of the crash. Very tragic what happened.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

Thank you and I’m sorry you had to be there when it happened.

@BLESSINGSAREDESERVED

4 ай бұрын

the video is on live gore. KZread is for kids.

When I was a new but licensed pilot I flew a 172 with an instructor in the right seat out of Miami FL with two people in the back. We were right at max weight and i remember how sluggish the controls were and how long it took to climb out. Having that experience i can easily see how that plane crashed especially with a brand new student pilot, he would have likely not even known that the plane was not responding properly. This is a fascinating story and sad.

There is so much to learn from these videos.

There is a HUGE difference between tried and true character growth and wisdom and the immaturity of so-called "Instagram Stars."

@shrimpflea

4 ай бұрын

What's your point?

@MrYport

4 ай бұрын

some influences spout 'wisdom' when they don't have it, or show fake lifestyles for the clicks. lack of being genuine and having real human experience. prioritizing the dopamine click machine over being real @@shrimpflea

@gingerjessy

4 ай бұрын

@@shrimpflea Social media inflates people's egos. You ego is not your amigo.

@arnelgelera242

4 ай бұрын

Yep...ego = dead

@tropicthndr

4 ай бұрын

What happened was they had an absolutely beautiful passenger crew, and they completely ruined it with that disgusting darky, an oddball that brought bad luck to the whole crew. Ugh.

Reality is a cruel mistress. She always wants respect and attention. If you don't, she may f*** you.

@JustMe-fo4ev

4 ай бұрын

cringe

@sludge8506

4 ай бұрын

Lesson taught by the late sam kinison.

@carlosenriqueulloa

4 ай бұрын

Physics doesn't care about your likes.

@JustMe-fo4ev

4 ай бұрын

@@carlosenriqueulloa cringe

'Instagram' and 'Stars' in the same sentence is hilarious ....Im also a legend in my own lunch time...

I'll never forget what Michael Bloomberg said about flying. ( he owns and flies a helicopter): "I like aviation because if you don't follow the rules, you die". I myself maintain a attitude somewhere between fear of and respect for flying. I know it will try to kill me, and that keeps me sharp and focused.

@makaveli087

4 ай бұрын

*Reminds me of that time Bloomberg noted* "Well, I've been gay my entire life but I actually became a Registered Democrat in 2018. My boyfriend thinks Donald Trump is kinda cute so I've always disliked him for that. It's also my Daddy issues."

@ehombane

4 ай бұрын

Flying is just impressive, but I think that it is not more dangerous than driving or cooking. Statistics may prove or disprove my hunch. But car crashes happens a lot more often. Sure, cars are a lot more than planes, and this is why a statistic is needed. Anyway, flying was not that killed them, but teribilism. When you cook and your butane tank explodes is just an accident. You really need to eat. When you drive to work and a drunkard jumps on your lane, also, it is an accident. You really need to go to work. But when you are an cool kid and take a trip just for the chills, well, you do not really need it. So, what we have here, an instagram celebrity. Was she famous for her math skills? And we have an tattooed drug addict. Yes, he was not stoned right now, but it reveals his lifestyle. Now, the pilot could have been an serious and responsible guy. But the entire fault seems to lie on his head. As a cool kid you know that gust of wind, or a big bird can take you out of the sky, but is unlikely, and you take the risk. But as a trained pilot, you know better then to load a plane at capacity and then toy around. But he did it though. Why? For sure because of the crowd mood. They were cheerful, but he was the macho man, and he could not step down from the high stool. He would have looked like a sissy if he would not accepted the job, or ditched two passengers. So he took the risk. And he paid the ultimate price for it. I may be wrong. But this is how I see it.

@swoosh4644

4 ай бұрын

@ehombane I don’t do drugs or drink and have a couple tattoos. Sooo what’s my life style like? 😒

@AntonioPerales-bb8pm

4 ай бұрын

​@@makaveli087His obviously crappy boyfriend has crappy taste. Bloomberg also alleged that Ukraine "is a democracy (not hardly!) which needs to be protected." He should just shut up.

@makaveli087

4 ай бұрын

@@AntonioPerales-bb8pm Ukraine? You mean *More Russia?*

Love these videos man just found your channel i know nothing about the world of Aeronautics so this is very interesting

What is also amazing to me is that any "certified" GA pilot - not necessarily a student pilot - after doing weight and balances and progressing to becoming a pilot learns & knows that a 4 place is a 2 place and a 6 place is a 4 place. So I have to think that psychological pressure in the case of the CFI was in play here. Weight and balance should have been done in 1 second... 6 adults - NO CAN DO !! You want to check that 1 second summation, do a weight and balance. Down right sad this had to happen. Clearly there was only 1 single person who had the knowledge to make a flying decision. Everyone else was clearly a passenger and trusting the only pilot aboard. I just found your channel. Lots of good work and sharing going on here... Will be sharing with my pilot friends.

As a student pilot, I love watching your videos and am learning so much. Thank you! I’ve finished ground school and find it surprising that the student pilot was claiming to need only a few more hours before his solo, yet he didn’t seem to understand the importance of doing accurate the weight and balance calculations. It’s even more astonishing that the instructor didn’t know they were overweight. Condolences to the families…so sad that these young lives were lost.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

Great point! James definitely should have known how to do weight and balance!

@OMGWTFLOLSMH

4 ай бұрын

@@pilot-debrief - Yep, the blame lies solely with him. He screwed up a bunch of times here. So much for being "by the book."

@PriusTurbo

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, James was trying to impress the friends and also get laid in Vegas. He was definitely one of those "it's all good bro!" types that thinks you can just use positive vibes to make everything happen including keeping an overweight aircraft aloft. I find great pleasure in telling people "NO" and being a voice of reason. People in general are dumb and unreasonable and if you don't stop them, they will treat a plane like it's an SUV. "C'mon guys we can fit! Vegas awaits!"

There’s no such thing as a instagram star .

@vaderladyl

4 ай бұрын

I agree. Stars? Hardly.

@hkfan4596

28 күн бұрын

instagram should be shut down as a net negative to society

@indyd98

23 күн бұрын

@@vaderladyl Yeah, unfortunately thats the meaning of 'stars' and 'celebrities' today. People who gather mass following of the dumb and narcissistic gen z are celebrated today, instead of people who genuinely contribute to the society. So we have these tiktok and instagram 'stars' who find their place in the garbage bin of history soon after.

@indyd98

23 күн бұрын

@@hkfan4596 Agreed. But the real problem is the idiots who use instagram. Even after instagram shuts down, these kids won't be of any use to anyone anyways.

Thank you I am going watch all your videos.. as a trainee pilot who does a few lessons each year 😢... You install in everyone importance of safety ... and debrief. I am always extra careful so I suppose that's a good thing... and always asked the instructor to do a debrief many can't be bothered now I know I was doing the right thing

I’m not a pilot and I don’t know much about planes, but even I immediately knew they were most likely overloaded.

Gravity has a massively larger inarguable influence than anyone on that plane did.

@randomentity6553

4 ай бұрын

Gravity - the ultimate influencer.

@ramonmoreno8014

4 ай бұрын

Gravity has over eight billion followers

I'm so tired of all these social media people trying to get attention at the cost of safety and common sense. I was an Airline Pilot for 25 years and was never concerned with trying to show off.

@pandorin2348

4 ай бұрын

they got their *attention* alright 🤣

@SevastianNandez

4 ай бұрын

Its just kids with childhood issues most their parents absent or children even at old age.

@kentuckybowl-o-sticks

4 ай бұрын

BINGO! "Get a GoPro!", they said. "You'll be famous!", they said. They worry about "global warming" killing us all, but can't seem to make it past their thirties.

@linanicolia1363

4 ай бұрын

GA is risky......lots of rookies who feel the sky is theirs, right after getting their single engine land certification. They ignore the importance of the weight , often, bad weather and making a turn, too close to the ground when their engine quits....No recovery for that stall, just waiting for them........Bonanzas are not what killed the doctors, but it was the stalls or the contact with unexpected terrain......Yeah. Lost lots of people I knew.....who felt flying was like driving their Mercedes, with wings. Ha...ha..... ...

@ttdenadaabba2149

4 ай бұрын

YEA ECXACTLY!! I just got through posting a similar comment! 😮

I'm an international touring artist. I think what I'm learning from your channel is that if I need to charter a plane I should book a flight through proper channels, and make sure that the pilot isn't someone who is trying to impress me.

This is so scary. When i was young I wouldn't allow extra people in cars or when some dumb person would put someone in the trunk of a car I'd threaten to walk (in the country) some people just lack self preservation. But to think they did this on a plane is a whole other level.

I'm just starting my training for my PPL, videos like these really prove just how important procedures are and how serious your mind set needs to be if you plan on arriving anywhere safely. I greatly appreciate having a fighter pilot guide me towards being the safest and best pilot I hope to become through these debriefs.

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

Glad to help! Stay focused and you got this!

@dougtaylor7724

4 ай бұрын

Never bend the rules. They break easily. Broken rules can mean dead people. The data for an aircraft took many talented people hundreds of hours to write. They are rarely wrong. Someone needed to be the adult that said no. I’m sure a passenger would have been mad to be told they couldn’t go. But they would have lived long enough to get over it.

@wootle

4 ай бұрын

Never feel pressured to do a flight. Specially with friends and family. You WILL face these situations. If you dont feel comfortable and confident DO NOT DO IT. Fly like an airline pilot , always use the checklist (even if you've flown that plane a million times), do the weight and balance, check the weather, do a good preflight, do a good safety talk, dont do high risk flights (flying into canyons, scud running, buzzing) ,always have an out. If something goes wrong FLY the plane first. Memorize essential emergency drills checklists. If you can - get the IFR rating. Happy flights!

@richardwarnertx

4 ай бұрын

Hey, new pilot, welcome to the flying world. I started flying in 1960 and I have some suggestions for you: (1) follow procedures and (2) until you get 1,500 hours, don't ever buzz, and after you get 1,500 hours, don't ever buzz.

@ILruffian

4 ай бұрын

Agree 100% about not bending rules. I got subjected to a wrong surgery. Checklist designed to prevent it caught the problem, and the POS orthopedic surgeon involved was able to talk the OR nurse into allowing him to proceed. Later found out the guy had prior discipline for a another wrong surgery. @@dougtaylor7724

There's seems to be a big difference between those that want to learn to fly because they really enjoy it and take it seriously and those who do it to just be cool.

@gentryhansen9020

4 ай бұрын

All the "likes" that he got from posting influential photos as a student pilot in the cockpit filled his head with dead weight and that threw off the W&B.

Appreciate your really clear presentation .

So sad! Such young lives with their whole lives ahead of them!! Very tragic!!

Hoover, you do more to inform us about flying and dumb things people should not do when flying. As another pilot once said: don't do anything dumb, different, or dangerous. Thank you sir!

@pilot-debrief

4 ай бұрын

You’re welcome! I appreciate it!

@mxslick50

4 ай бұрын

My instructor used to call it the 4D rule: Dumb or different or dangerous equals death. No maybe or probable about it.

Many years ago, after I returned from a night flight, I met 3 students at my local flight club about to go on a night instrument cross country lesson with their instructor. Later, watching the news, I heard that a plane had crashed on take off from my airport, with no survivors. There was a temperature inversion that night and sadly the aircraft didn’t have the performance to climb. Flying is easy, being a pilot requires so much more than simple flying skills.

@johndough1703

4 ай бұрын

It’s amazing how your average nobody has 700hp in his twin turbo mustang just to go to the gas station for cigarettes, and people who are at the pinnacle of “risking your life” are willing to go up with such 💩 engines

@DivinityAwakened

4 ай бұрын

Yea, thats not worth it.

@AbuHajarAlBugatti

4 ай бұрын

😂 people dont belong in the sky. Have only flown twice in my life to get to vacation. And the chinese garbage I buy is shipped over the seas. Flying is just a fancy luxury

@animula6908

3 ай бұрын

I thought you were going to say flying is easy; not crashing is hard.

@mymodel6

3 ай бұрын

@@adspur Are you broken..?

Just found your channel. I appreciate your study and explanation.

Great video...many lessons here for everyone, young and old.

Here's another element of this tragedy: it's a 4-hour drive from Scottsdale to Las Vegas. The pilot could have refused the flight and they could have taken a fairly short drive and been in Vegas.

@nelsonmuntz3194

4 ай бұрын

But then there would have been no video and photos to post on social media bragging about flying private.

Instagram’model’as a job title 😂😂😂

@sarahalbers5555

4 ай бұрын

That and "influencer".

Excellent review on a tragic story!

I developed a huge fear of flying late in life even though I hsve flown countless times since I was a kid. This video makes me feel better thst pilots do have a ton of training. Thanks for making things like this make sense.

15 years earlier I was an instructor at this airport. It looks like they were trying to turn back to the airport on partial power and stalled out trying to maintain altitude. Probably the biggest reason I'd turn that flight down was because they wanted to fly single engine at night over mountainous terrain. There's no place to set down an aircraft between Phoenix and Vegas, it's all mountains and you can't see the ground to find an area to land if the engine fails as there aren't any lights or highways. So as instructor asked to fly a plane that I wasn't familiar with (wasn't a plane I few everyday etc) and I had no idea if it was even maintained properly, I'd at least say we'll fly during the day (so I can see where to try to land if the engine craps out) and everything else would also be by the book (weight, fuel, CG, etc). Every flight lesson I ever gave one we started emergency procedure training, I'd ask the student before we took off, "Where are we going to land if the engine fails immediately after takeoff with no runway remaining?" and my students would confirm with me where the best possible area to aim for would be, (I had told them in prior lessons where the best chance to land was, generally straight ahead). Even later flying jets pilots had a standard takeoff briefing every flight; it was an SOP and had to be briefed. In this case a bunch of innocent passengers died because of the, "kick the tire, light the fire' mentality.

@greatcollector9362

4 ай бұрын

Good headwork,,,,,,always review the performance section and have a plan "b" ,,,,

@78tag

4 ай бұрын

My take away from this is that there were no adults involved the decision making of that flight.

How in the world can they take off, without doing a weight and balance? As a student pilot myself, it is drilled into me that before any flight, even doing circuits, you do a weight and balance. This was 100% preventable.

@sgtbrown4273

4 ай бұрын

It's literally one of the first things you're taught in ground school.

@hydraulics

4 ай бұрын

Hot girls and peer pressure seems like

@ld1994

4 ай бұрын

Narcissists like them NEVER think rules or Laws of Physics apply to them

@therealrobinc

4 ай бұрын

Be thankful you've a professional, conscientious & safe CFI.

@Radiogirl1931

4 ай бұрын

I only do a weight and balance if something has changed like, I'm flying by myself, vs flying with an instructor, not before every flight. But if something drastic like fuel and luggage or something changes I do one.

Excellent video. Very good informative.

As a fairly new private pilot, I love watching all of your videos. It makes me think how every day scenarios can end in tragedy if you aren't careful. I appreciate the truthful yet respectful way you review each situation.

@therealrobinc

4 ай бұрын

Stay humble, keep learning & stay alert. 👍🏻👍🏻

This happened decades ago. When I was in training for my pilots license, my instructor, who was in his early 20s and a friend, was going to fly me and my brother up to my grandparents for the day. It was about a hundred miles and skies were clear. My instructor wanted me to fly left seat to log as much flight time as possible. On the return trip, I was also in the left seat. Most of the trip was over rural terrain and we had not seen another aircraft. My instructor wanted my brother, who had no training to have a little time behind the controls and so we were going to switch seats while in flight. I assumed my instructor would take the controls and I would climb in the back and my brother would climb up front. However, my flight instructor wanted me to log as much time as possible, so he said he would get in the back. I was not comfortable with this and voiced my concern, but he said it was okay. Well we did this and flew for ten minutes or so and everything was good. Then, my instructor asked me about the route and I looked down to check the charts. Thirty or so seconds later, my brother said, “There’s a plane.” I looked up thinking it would be a mile away, but it was right their at our altitude and on a crossing collision course. I didn’t do anything, because I thought my brother would react to avoid the aircraft. Thank God, my instructor reached over from the rear seat and pulled up just in time. It was a miracle we missed the guy. To give you an idea of how close it was, we could not agree on the color of the guys airplane or if it was high or low wing, but we all agreed he was wearing Rayban sunglasses. We had screwed up royally and by shear luck had avoided death. My instructor switched back to the right seat and the rest of the trip was very quiet as each of us pondered how close we had come to death.

@ryanpenrod1859

4 ай бұрын

Your instructor sounds like a complacent idiot.

@vampiresforesl

4 ай бұрын

That flight instructor sounds less competent than Erik in the video above. He was in the back seat??

@tmayorca8770

4 ай бұрын

You and the flight instructor screwed up and got lucky

@glasshalffull2930

4 ай бұрын

@@tmayorca8770 I think I mentioned that.

@glasshalffull2930

4 ай бұрын

@@vampiresforesl I’d say Eric made a series of significant mistakes, whereas my instructor made one bad mistake.

Saddest reality: six lives were lost. Please, follow the rules. For each one life lost, many more people’s lives are deeply impacted. There is no room for unprofessionalism when transporting passengers in any mode of transportation. Thanks for the sobering debrief, Sir.

Excelent video. Tank you.From Brazil

Also I think it’s worth calling out that the turn is likely what did them in. Wings level and keep the minuscule climb going would have likely been another way out once in the air. Obviously never take off over gross to begin with, but also don’t give up what little lift you have by turning when you need all the lift you can get.

@BrandyBalloon

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. And if you have to turn, keep it shallow. A steep turn when on the wrong side of the power curve is never a good idea. I notice it was also a left turn - assuming the prop on that plane rotates clockwise, a right turn might've been a better idea.

@DurzoBlunts

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely

Some few channels are doing this, but this must be the best, highlighting what pilots and passengers get up to under social pressure.

Some takeaways: 1. Never board an aircraft to be flown by a student pilot. 2. Never board an aircraft that exceeds its allowance for maximum gross weight 3. Never board an aircraft that exceeds its limits for center of gravity. 4. Never board an aircraft that is not airworthy. Unclear as to why the engine cylinder valve spring failure was not detected on any earlier flight.

Sad story. Thanks for the excellent video. Pressure to fly can be a killer especially when you are just starting your career. I had an old chief pilot tell me when I flew medevac helicopters, "I don't pay you to fly, I pay you to know when not to fly."

I took a couple of lessons, felt I knew the basics, so having built a private air strip on my land I took delivery of a brand new Piper Trainer, I flew under the radar around my lake for years, then one morning on approach I nose dived rapidly into the tarmac destroying 70% of my plane and giving myself a near heart attack. It took only a few hours to conclude that metal fatigue on the trim tan link was the root cause. Well I didn’t waste any time I went straight out an purchased an updated version of this 1970’s Trainer , took a few weeks to prepare and the gloss sunshine off the wings paint was spectacular, probably the best Radio Control Model Plane I ever built….ya see I know my limits….she should have known her’s…..

@WingsOverTO

4 ай бұрын

She? Why is this the fault of the IG stars? I’m not one to defend the (mostly) vacuous influencers out there, but there’s no evidence that the passengers knew anything about flying a small plane, and no reason they should have. This is squarely on that student pilot and instructor.

@PeteDavidson-yl3ps

4 ай бұрын

Have ya seen the scale of, I hate to say Model Planes like forget 1/25 or 1/8 these are now 20+ feet in length with twin to quad turbine jet engines at 100mph ground speed….and the clubs are only getting bigger with Air Shows, Sponsors, Exhibits, Food Courts, Camping, Competitions weekend events fun for the entire family every scale including for the little kids rubber band wind up. I went on a Hamburger Run with a buddy from New Hampshire, we brought the wives flew 50 miles landed walked around ate a hamburgers drank Pepsi flew back…ok sat in some not so cool planes there were 34 planes in total but Honestly, participating in a RC event with 400 people was a blast, and the Swap Meet was even better, enough bargains to keep me building umpteen planes and projects all cold winter in my heated garage……

@ravenzyblack

4 ай бұрын

@@WingsOverTO- How much you want to bet they were pressuring him with money. YOU try telling an “influencer” no. They can be very very spiteful and they actually have influence. That’s the sad part.

@crooked-halo

4 ай бұрын

That was _spectacular!_ Thank you! I was so pissed off, ready to curse you in my reply, until I read the word "radio!"

@PeteDavidson-yl3ps

4 ай бұрын

Exactly! That DIRTY 2 letter word NO and you’d have an Influencer of 11 year olds threatening oneself with total Armageddon on Social as well Non- Social Media….From Free this to Free That to Free Samples Gifts Trinkets. A friend of mine owns a Hotel in Jamaica, he’s done really well for himself, he does any work needed from repair of toilets to door locks to arborist to food prep, and low and behold every once and a while some “ IG Influencer “ will show up demanding courtesy accommodations, oh he also doubles as Security lol and makes sure the door smacks their ass Male or Female on the way out into the street. He’s come 20 years with no IG 👎 nada. :)

My father owned and flew a Cessna 172 in the mid to late 60’s early 70’s. He and his buddy traded it in on a 1966 Comanche 260B in 1973 in which I flew in as a young kid up to 1975. Financially, he sold his share then, being the last time he flew a plane, in which he dearly loved to do. When they purchased the Comanche he had well over 300 hrs flying and was THOROUGHLY instructed by a CFI in the Comanche’s performance. He always told me, “that plane was a different ballgame”. You had to stay ahead of it due to its high performance. Almost 200 mph plane. That everything around you happened so much more quicker in that plane. Unfortunately, I found out a few years ago and just before my father’s passing at age 95, a family of 4 were killed in that same plane in a crash 2015. I was about the same age as their youngest the last I flew in that Comanche. COMANCHES AND OTHER SIMILAR AIRPLANES ARE BIG BOY/GIRL PLANES…PLEASE BUILD YOUR HOURS UP BEFORE TRANSITIONING…

Very good analysis and explanations as always.

Steve-O is killin it with this flight reviews nowdays🤙

Living in Scottsdale I remember this accident. In 2003 there was another crash where Piper N3636Q took off from the same airport and flew right into the McDowell Mts. Thousands of people witnessed it as it was at sunset over a busy area. You should do a Debrief on that accident.

@bdberg

Ай бұрын

I remember that one.

I can really appreciate the pressure Erik felt by James to go ahead with the flight. It is really hard to say "NO" when everyone around you is wanting this to happen.

@CharlesAnsman

4 ай бұрын

Too many pretty girls, clouded his mind, He was thinking with his little head

@numb0t

4 ай бұрын

Man's just a simple noob. Anyone can say no. It's your pride, that got him killed

@jonkaminsky8382

4 ай бұрын

⁠@@whatsMyNameAgainAgain I’m glad you’re here to chastise Charles for expressing his own opinion. How dare he say such things! Keep up the great work! 💪🏻

@awesomeblossom2417

4 ай бұрын

Its really hard to say no when you have a bunch of hot girls looking at your. If there were a bunch of old grandmas and grandpas, Erik would have felt more comfortable.

@drogers5511

4 ай бұрын

@@CharlesAnsman just guessing... I think it was probably more complicated than the pretty girls. Sure, your point is valid, but also the owner chimed in and also gave, if only tacit, his approval. I will go out on a limb and say he didn't have the courage to cancel the flight in the face of all of the opposition.