I explained to a fellow rescue worker once that untreatable aggression is the same as an uncomfortable end of life illness. A dangerous dog is forced to live in isolation. Dogs are social. Unrelieved isolation is very stressful. A gentle kind end is, imo, respectful of the needs of that dog, in exactly the same way that we’ll do the same for an animal experiencing unrelieved pain.

@Kuro_Reaper

Ай бұрын

In rescue you also have to be realistic and understand that there are not many people willing to adopt an animal with extreme/rdangerous behaviour problems. But that one animal living in a rescue long-term is holding a space which means turning away multiple other animals which could have been rehomed. It's not a nice thing and no-one working in rescues wants to put animals to sleep, it's just unfortunatly something that is sometimes the more practical/kinder option.

When I was a kid, we adopted a dog who sounded great on paper but the previous owners had lied to the humane society when they brought her in. She was great with people but hated other animals. She went crazy when she saw one and all you could do was hang onto her leash for dear life. This was before the internet and no one mentioned behavioural modification for dogs to us. We tried our best but after a couple of years, my mother had the dog put down because she was a ticking time bomb. She didn't want the dog to get loose and attack an animal or someone with an animal. It was traumatizing for her to have to make that decision and it was so wrong and dangerous of the previous owners to lie.

This 100%. A dear friend does rescue work and is a professional trainer. She was involved in a case recently with a pittie who’d been (very poorly) trained as a combination fighting ring and guard dog by his former ne’er do well owner. Dog was incredibly reactive with all people, all animals, would bite with no warning, paced night and day, when crated would lick his front paws endlessly. Vet went over him, fine other than sore paws from incessant pacing and licking, and skinny because the ne’er do wells hadn’t fed him properly. Referred to a veterinary behaviorist a 6 hr drive away. They put him on a cocktail of psychotropic meds which did at least help the pacing and the paw licking. My friend worked daily with that dog for a year and made very little progress. He had to be kept on his own at the back of her property a good 50 feet from all the other dogs or he’d be jumping and growling at the fence constantly. She did manage to teach him to play with toys, walk on a leash, and calmly put his head through a small door in his run to be muzzled and leashed so she didn’t have to get a second person and a catch pole and tackle him everytime she wanted to work with him. The last 6 months at least he could go for a long walk with her very early every morning sporting his custom wire cage heavy duty muzzle and a bright orange vest warning everyone to stay away because he was dangerous. About half the days they’d encounter no one on the carefully chosen route. But the other days there would be near misses where she’d end up hanging on for dear life and screaming at people to get themselves and their pets away from him. She kept hoping in time he might grow more tolerant. But a year of all the love and support she could give him and several med changes and he still would still go absolutely insane if any living creature came within 20 feet of him. He grew to tolerate her, but any other people she tried to introduce would set him off. He especially distrusted men and anyone wearing hats. She had a trainer who specifically trains for guard work come see him to see if they could perhaps help. That trainer said his best guess was that the former owners had basically reverse socialized him. Had gone out of their way to teach him through repeated negative and painful experiences that everyone was a mortal threat. Likened it to the doggy version of surviving the hunger games. The decision was finally made to euthanize him. Being penned up alone with no one, being too afraid to let even your most trusted human give you tummy rubs, never getting to run and play with other dogs, always being restricted to a short strong leash and muzzle. That’s no life for a dog. The previous owners had utterly destroyed him. They left a shell of a dog who was so terrified of everything and so conditioned to bite first and bark later that no amount of love was ever likely to give him back a life that wasn’t sad and isolated. She’s worked with thousands of dogs and had to euthanize dozens of pets over the years. I’ve never seen her more upset than over that one. She was so frustrated that she couldn’t fix the damage done by some horrible people who I sincerely hope one day get what they have coming.

@lollybirdy

Ай бұрын

I wish more people understood this about pits. They are not inherently evil. They have trauma just like humans.

@mylifewithmarmalade4624

Ай бұрын

@@lollybirdyExactly. Just like in humans, trauma leaves an indelible mark. Time and attention from skilled people willing to put in the effort can help immensely, but often that trauma becomes something that will always be simmering somewhere beneath the surface and will need to be accounted for and managed for the rest of the life span. It doesn’t make the dog or the breed bad. Just a situation where there are going to be some special needs that humans ignore at their peril.

This always a complicated topic. I’ve come across dogs that were lawsuits waiting to happen. We’ve had animals turned over to our rescue who were just unadoptable because after we did a full disclosure to potential adopters that the dog snaps at children or occasionally zones in and tries to kill someone for no apparent reason…you rarely find an adopter willing to take the risk. You can spend lots of money working with, training and consulting specialists for these dogs but it’s really hard . And since thousands of really good dogs are being euthanized at shelters each year and you’re fostering a time bomb it makes it difficult to justify trying to continue trying to find it a home. I know it may seem harsh but I no longer pull a dog from the shelter into my rescue if I know will never be adoptable.

I'm actually working with one of my dogs because she was physically abused before we rescued her. She's still grouchy and stiff sometimes, but she's come a long way

Thanks for continuing this conversation, it's so important.

Thank you for this video. Its reinforced a conversation I had recently with our vet. xxx

The problem with LIMA is that it can be used as an "out" to just use aversive techniques when they aren't necessary. Aversive trainers dont always necessarily use aversive techniques, they could still start off with non aversive ones but because the option is there, they end up using it. It might even be subconscious that they dont put in enough effort with non aversive techniques as they can just move onto the aversive ones, and they would feel justified. LIMA could end up justifying training that wasn't given a full effort so that aversives could be used. So it's always good to be cautious and look at the full code of conduct that an association a trainer is with has, and consider how that could work in practice.

Unless you're Kristi Noem.

For the first 18 sec I thought this might be a good idea, but than you said something about agressions from the pet

I had a dog who started getting aggressive to me, I went to the vet and asked if there was something that could be causing it. The vet told me that there was nothing that physical that would cause it. My dog started having seizers a few months later and we had to him to sleep. A few years later I started working a animal emergency .A few weeks later a dog came in who was starting to be aggressive to it owner. One of the vets said she mostly had a brain tumor which was causing it. My vet was an idiot and wrong and I never when back there.

I’m really curious about your thoughts on a cat that is somewhat unpredictably aggressive. If medications don’t work, is there a place for disarming them (*cough* k9 tooth removal, declawing *cough*) as opposed to the alternative? This is very hypothetical as the owner doesn’t think anything needs done, since the cat isn’t aggressive with them and their partner.

What is a behaviour? Define it for us? I want to know your science.

Is it the same process for feline aggression?

❤️

How would you euthanize an aggressive dog safely?

@a.k7889

Ай бұрын

I’m not a qualified vet, but here are my guesses… First, an aggressive dog may only be dangerously aggressive at certain times. So risk could be minimised by various factors such as the owner putting a muzzle on the dog before leaving the house, choosing the gender of the veterinarian, choosing the location of the euthanasia (e.g. at a clinic or in their own home), choosing the time of the euthanasia (e.g. at a time when there are no other clients or pets at the clinic), having the vet and their staff professionally restrain the animal (sounds much worse than it is), allowing the owner to administer a prescribed sedative to the pet to help calm them before the euthanasia appointment, etc. If EVERY POSSIBLE SOLUTION failed and NO ONE could get close to the dog due to its dangerous aggression, imagine it being treated like a tiger in a wildlife sanctuary who needed veterinary care. In a case such as this, a vet is able to position themselves safely on the outside of the fence/enclosure and with a dart 🎯 loaded with a strong sedative medication, “shoot” this dart/needle into the exterior of the tiger. Within a few minutes, the tiger will be sedated to the point of unconsciousness, during which time it can be transported to the operating table. There it is given more general anaesthetic to keep it unconscious until the treatment is complete, before being returned to its home, then allowed to wake up (by which time the humans are out of the way). Obviously with a euthanasia of an aggressive dog, after they are sedated by the dart, they would be euthanised instead of treated. Hope that helps!

@deeanna8448

Ай бұрын

Lots of sedation beforehand.

@adiabozman9635

24 күн бұрын

@@a.k7889 do you work in vet med? I was a vet assistant but I've never seen a behavioral euth so I wasn't sure how it would go. But the sedative dart makes a lot of sense!!

Call Cesar. Interesting how one of his videos was right after yours. 😜