For you to solve the problem of the pins that come out of the atx connector, just solder the connector on a piece of perforated PCB board, they are cheap, come in various sizes and provide stability and firmness to the connector pins. and also has a good aesthetic

Very good information in this video! 👍👍👍

Great video, full of info needed. As for the +and- 12 volt rails I would suggest adding the appropiate fuses or even PTZ "breakers". Do you have any info on a DIY circuit for the -5 volt rail? I am planning on having my old 286 machine shipped to me. I have a spare AT supply on hand as well but it has not been powered up in years. Best way to bring up these old supplies is to power it up through a 100 watt incandescent light bulb as wee as through a variable transformer. One brings up the power slowly to "reform" the electrolytic capacitors inside. The light will light up brightly if there is a short in the supply hopefully without damaging any critical components within.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

Hi! Thank you. If you choose a good PSU, you don't need any additional fuses, since the breakers are built in. That's what I was talking about in the video. The PSU I tried there wasn't that great, it didn't had short circuit detection on all rails, but the video should give an idea, what I was talking about. Meanwhile I found one PSU by Enermax, which fully matches my expectations. It has short circuit detection on all rails, it has -5V, is powerful enough, has a lot of connectors and so on. Talking about -5V DIY circuit, please watch my other video about Voltage Blaster, a project, which I made together with Phil from PhilsComputerLabs YT channel. kzread.info/dash/bejne/aGV9sNqtc7W0eso.html

@davidp4456

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Voltage blaster takes a valuable slot in old systems☹

Thanks for the video, very informative and full of tips others usually don't mention, especially about short-circuit protection! I might have use for the info inside, as I want to restore an XT clone (Sinclair PC200) and I think I should fit it with a newer PSU. Do you have any info if anybody still makes AT-style connectors, and a guide on how to insert pins on them? I've been looking all over for that because the PC200 has its own pinout on the power pins (it's not 100% AT-like).

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you liked it! A similar adapter from ATX to AT as I made in this video can be bought on Ebay or Aliexpress. I just made it because I had some spare parts flying around. You could buy such a cable and rewire it the way you need. May be another video I made a month ago could help you with this question. There I made a PSU for a Tandy 1000 RSX, which also doesn't have a standard AT PSU: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X6Cqw5mgqrrbgqg.html

@nickwallette6201

2 жыл бұрын

Most of the classic PC connectors are still available: The ATX 20-pin and 24-pin connectors are Molex Mini Fit Jr. 5557 series. E.g... - 0039012200 is the 20-pin connector - 0039012240 is the 24-pin connector - 0039012040 is the 4-pin ATX12V connector - 0039012080 is the 8-pin PCI-Express 12V connector * - 39000038 is (one of) the matching 18-24awg crimp pins * The 4-pin PCIe connector is a modified version of the ATX12V connector with different keying. The keying is a repeating pattern of alternating square and chamfered sockets, so you can remove part of a longer connector to get to the segments keyed in the same way, if you don't mind not having the clasp. The +4 connector on some 20/24-pin connectors is also not available separately (that I've found) but you can make using the same hack. The AT power connectors are Molex 90331 series: - 0903311003 for the connector housing * - 0008520071 is (one of) the matching 18-24awg crimp pins * The IBM PC standard P8 and P9 connectors sometimes use different keying, so you can't insert them in each others' connectors. The standard Molex part has a single key, so you may have to clip the key pegs off the side of the connector to get it to fit one of the headers. The 5.25" and 3.5" HDD connector is made by lots of manufacturers, including Molex, but I actually prefer the TE Connectivity Mate N Lok series: - 1-480424-0 is the shell (white) - 1-480424-9 if your prefer a more modern black - 60619-1 for 14-20awg pins The Berg connector for 3.5" drives is also made by TE Connectivity, in the EI series: - 171822-4 in white - 2-171822-4 or black - 170262-1 for 20-26awg pins Polulu makes 0.1" headers compatible with jumpers and motherboard front panel headers: - Item #1901 - 2-pin housing - Item #1902 - 3-pin housing - Item #1903 - 4-pin housing - Item #1904 - you get the idea - Item #1930 - 100-pack of crimp pins Fan / speaker headers, and things like that, use something that is usually compatible with Molex SPOX 5102 series: - 0022011024 - 2-pin housing (speakers, LED headers, 2-wire fans, etc.) - 0022011034 - 3-pin housing (case fans with tach) - 0022011044 - 4-pin housing (case fans with PWM* ) - 0008700056 - 22-28awg crimp pins * PC-style 4-pin connectors are actually keyed for a 3-pin header, to make it backward compatible with non-PWM headers that only have 3-pins. The standard Molex 4-pin shells are keyed for a 4-pin header, so while they will fit a 3-pin header just fine, you do have to be careful that the unused pin goes to the correct side when plugging a 4-pin fan into a 3-pin header. Since the motherboard header's guide is only 3 pins wide, you also have to be a little more careful inserting a 4-pin cable onto a 4-pin header, since the plug won't stop you from missing the last pin on one side. Of course, there are tons of 0.1" pitch IDC connectors for floppy (2x17), IDE (2x20), SCSI (2x25), VGA feature connectors (2x13), motherboard headers, etc., so pick up some 0.05" pitch ribbon cable, and a cheap crimp tool from eBay, and make your own -- cut to the exact length you need. Unfortunately, Ultra ATA connectors are bespoke, and a little harder to come by these days.

ADD a fuse for -5V line and a diode with a resistor to signal You that the line is working. If you give 50% power fuse after shortcut you got blown fuse and no signal light on PSU. You may even give a s lov fuse as the normal work stand if you get something more consuming you just put higher fuse instead of blown for this tests. It is always better to change fuse for few cents than use a fire extinguisher. Nice fuse holder will help in event of changing fuse. But the signaling diode is good idea that protects You from lokking problems at the board when the fuse is blown.

Hi, thank you for the video. It was very educational. I also have issue with old power supply, and retro hardware, it's very difficult to find good ones, and you are risking so precisious old hardware with crappy ones. I would so much like to see company, that makes good retro stuff and accesories. Anyway, video was educational, and I've learned something new. Also good comment discussion under. I didnt know, old capacitors can short circuits, and it seems dangerous with power supply without overcurrent protection. Back in 90's , we also didnt care about power supplies, only about speed of computer, don't know why situation changed in late 2000's, but that's exaclty in 2006, where I first time spent much money on power supply also, and took very good one and branded. Before it, I just used any power supply. Maybe, computers were not very power hungry before, my Pentium 2 system draws 65 watts, so they didnt have to put so much attention to power supply. But it start to be problem, when hardware start to age, but that didn't probably bother them back then, it's interesting. And before mid 90's, power supplies were maybe more quality, because they need to power also monitor usually... I never run monitor out of power supply, but directly, to stress power supply least possible.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

You are welcome. Meanwhile I found a PSU with a short circuit protection on all rails, Enermax has everything I need. Regarding the bad PSUs in 2000s, we never think about any PSU we are using in the house. Did you check your phone USB charger? Is it properly protected? You just never know and as long as the device is working, everything's fine. The same was with PSUs for the computers, the companies wanted to save couple of cents on each machine and released that crap. The machines did their job for two years, until it's out of warranty and that is what counts, even today. Unfortunately the retro tinkerers have now to deal with such issues, because we are the ones, who use the tech years after it should go to trash. Unfortunately, with a bad PSU you risk to damage the rare and old hardware, which is connected to it, so for a lab, it is more important, than for anything else. Regarding the monitor through the PSU, you don't need to worry. You can just connect the monitor to the PSU as well, if possible, because the mains are just wired to the output, without going through the circuits of the PSU. So, inside it's just a plain 230V cable which connects the input and the output. Some have a switch and a fuse in between, but it doesn't change anything. The load on the PSU is not higher, if you connect your monitor to it. You can see it as a usual power strip integrated into the PSU and it doesn't matter if it's outside, or inside of your computer.

@warrax111

3 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Thank for information about PSU and monitor. Then it's interesting, why they stop include monitor jack at power supplies, but probably because so it can be better cooled. Which doesn't matter on old 200W power supplies. But even on them, they could be quiter with larger fans and holes, but probably noone wanted ultra-silent computer back then, I remember how it was normal that computer have such noice (probably because of hard-drives, that would be load anyway). Anyway, keep up good with old hardware, I just starting to care about it, and buying staff like mad, before it start to dissapear. :) We would need some "re-creation" company of old stuff, and needed stuff for retro computer, that would be super-needed. For example, they could be making brand new very quality power supplies for retro computers (strong 5V rail, -5V rail, all protection standards, good effectivity (old power supplies had terrible effectivity), while still sucking enough air (modern power supplies are slowing fan, but old computers relies on sucking air out by power supply). Also CRT monitors with best technology for retro computers would be needed. I have long in mind such company, unfortunately, I have no skills to found one. What I dreaming about is to make re-creation of 3dfx card, so those crazy prices like 400$ for voodoo4 dissapears, and also retro maniacs would have easy time to find one for their computer. We could maybe collect broken cards with working chips and making new cards, basicaly what chinese companies on alliexpress doing with old X58 motherboards, they are collecting working chipsets and chips, and building brand new X58 motherboards for good prices, ranging from $60 to 100$.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

@@warrax111 I guess, they simply removed the monitor power connector from the PSU to save money. Every plug and internal wiring costs couple of cents and if you sell millions of PSUs you can save quite an amount. Regarding the retro hardware company, it's a lot of effort, which in my opinion is not economically beneficial. The retro community is not big enough to cover the costs. There are however some online shops, like Serdashop, where you can buy at least some things.

hey i have and 1995 IBM and inside i need 4 AT pins.2 go into powering and 1 into that other board.How i make another one or two AT pins from new PSU?

Nice video. Wish I could find a PSU that's primarily 3.3 and 5 volt+ for the retro build I would like to do.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

You could take an ATX PSU and ignore everything else, but 3.3V and 5V, or you can take any 5V PSU, which is powerful enough for your aims and use a buck converter or linear voltage regulator to get down to 3.3V. It's quite easy to do. You can buy it from an Arduino store for example.

@SOU6900

3 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Honestly for what I wanted to build I would prefer to get my hands on an older ATX12V 1.0 type PSU because I was planning on using an old Slot A Athlon Thunderbird CPU or perhaps a Socket 7 or Socket A board that doesn't have the 4 pin for CPU power. Anyway I managed to get my hands on a Socket A board that has the 4 pin CPU connector so I can atleast use the more modern PSUs that are mainly +12V. I don't trust myself with rigging up stuff to get the results I want.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

@@SOU6900 I guess, I didn't quite understand, what was your aim, but I'm glad you manged to get a solution :)

@SOU6900

3 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Not the setup I really wanted to go with but sometimes you just have to go with what's easiest to make work. Shame too because I found a nice complete ATX board for Slot A Athlon Classic and Athlon Thunderbird processors. Even had the back plate for the rear I/O ports. Now just wondering what OS and GPU to use.

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

@@SOU6900 I think, I'm tired, because I just can get any idea from your comments :) Sorry pal, but first you say, that you want a PSU without 12V, then you say, that you want to use it in a system, which needs primarily 12V. Now you jump to OS and GPU. Either you think too fast, or I think too slow and I have a feeling, that it's me, because I'm really tired :)

Is it possible to add short circuit protection for the rails where it is missing in that power supply?

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

Sure, everything is possible, but a good solution would cost you something. The easy way is just to add some fuses, however, they will burn through each time you have a short. And that happens quite often, if you repairing old stuff, so you will have to change fuses all the time. That would be annoying. A batter way would be to introduce electronic protection, which would power off the PSU, each time a short was detected. Long story short, it's easier and cheaper to find a PSU with such protection already included. Meanwhile I found two of those and I don't use the PSU I showed in this video. However, the ATX->AT adapter is in use every day :)

@yosuhara

3 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware glad to hear that :) are those suitable psu's af any recognizable name brand?

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

@@yosuhara One was Enermax, and the other a no name (?) "Laitronic". Enermax is very good, but also the no name one turned out to be very good as well. It has everything I need, -5V, short circuit protection on all rails, most power at 5V rail and not on 12V, as most of the new PSUs would have. It runs very stable and shows, that sometimes no names can also be very good :)

My Delta PSU 335W is rated for 18A on +5v, a max of 120W combined on 3.3 and 5, and it's very stable on my SS7 with an AMD K6-2 500 cpu, a Soltek SL-54U5 board with a VIA MVP3 chipset and voodoo 3 2000. I tried to find out how much power I actually need but I could only find very vague and conflicting information. Is there a more precise way to understand how much I actually need?

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

Don't worry about Super Socket 7, 120W is enough. It starts to be really bad with the Athlon CPUs. They were incredibly hungry on the 5V rail. The proper way to find out the power consumption is to calculate every part on it's own and take a sum. You can find all the data you need in the datasheets and the CPU is the most power hungry component. Later GPUs came to the equation as well.

@linoxyard

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Thanks! I do have a more modern build with an Athlon 64 socket 939, but for that I read that what matters the most is the 12v rail, since it's from 2005. I'm purchasing a brand new evga PSU for it, because the 400W one that it has now gets really hot when running for a while, needing to power a gf4 ti 4200 and all

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

@@linoxyard Exactly, that is the problem, since new PSUs are designed to bring the most power on the 12V and the PSUs from the time of the Socket A (462) needed everything on the 5V. Many tinkerers today buy a new powerful 500W PSU and wonder why it is too weak for a 20 years old Athlon. Because 500W PSU today can have less, than 250W had back then on the 5V rail.

You could put a fuse on the +5V rail..

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

This is a good way for a normally used PSU, however, when repairing old hardware, shorts are very common and I don't want to change the fuse every time.

@catsspat

3 жыл бұрын

A simple circuit to detect current through the 5V rail that can cut of a relay at the mains if the current exceeds certain amount, perhaps?

@ochykysh

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Thermistor might be a a good alternative

Please name and kind of that switch...I cant find it and it looks similar to the original. Did the old one from the AT psu will work?, so I dont have to modify the case to place a diferent one.

@necro_ware

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that would work. You need a toggle switch or something similar

hmm, food for thought.

Great video. However getting a ATX to AT Adapter board that includes -5V for $30 on ebay would be worth it.

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

Or use a voltage blaster for 1$

@kageofkonoha

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Interesting. I really need to catch up on your videos.. You should put a link about the Voltage Blaster in this videos Description.

@n646n

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Shipping board to Canada is $20. Shipping parts to Canada is $15. Might as well buy Ebay vblaster clone.

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

@@n646n Five boards cost 2$, shipping costs are around 6$. As for parts, you need only a 7905 and two caps. A resistor and an LED is optional. You can find this stuff in the scrap, or an electronics store for about 25 Cent. Build 5 parts and sell 4 of them for 3$ each. Keep one VB and you have your costs back.

@n646n

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Maybe it's like that in other countries. I checked shipping costs, to get the board created even just 3 boards costs around $20-$30 total. The voltage regulator is also out of stock everywhere and incredibly hard to find. I even tried to get PCBA since I couldn't find it and it couldn't be found.

12:42 I'm getting nervous when Germans start talking about "final solutions". No offense, buddy, I'm just kidding. :-D

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

Don't worry I'm not quite German ;)

@LambertZero

2 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware Sorry, I might've misread your accent. :-D

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

@@LambertZero No problem, my accent is ambiguous, usually nobody can exactly say, where I'm from. Doesn't matter which language I'm speaking ;)

That Trust PSU looks very cheap, I'm not sure if you should really ... trust ... what it says on its label x) I'm sure it'll blow up if you load it to the marketed 420W

@necro_ware

4 жыл бұрын

Hi! I am absolutely the same opinion as you. It does look cheap and I guess, the power supply will not stand 420W. However the computers, which I usually repair are something between XT and Pentium, sometimes I take a look at Pentium II. None of them usually need more, than 150W and if I have to test something beefier I would probably take more powerful PSU then. This happens one time a year :) My bigger problem is indeed, as I mentioned in the video, that this PSU doesn't have proper short circuit protection on all rails. You know, old capacitors are getting bad and tend to produce shorts. This is a very common issue and I don't want to celebrate every shorted hardware I get with fireworks in my workshop :) This video is about the idea, the power supply I thought would be sufficient is quite universal, but it is crap due to told reasons. I will replace it as soon as I can, however, currently I have a problem to find a good ATX power supply from the time, where they still have had -5V rail. I looked now at 6 ATX power supplies and they are all crap. It is interesting, looks like the power supplies in the first half of 90s were good and then, with the begin of ATX time, they all were crap. No OVP, no SCP and other issues. Even the expensive ones are crap. I have here Seasonic and Enermax, they both were expensive back in the days and even have all the German safety stickers on it, but they all lack SCP on +/-5V and -12V rails. Looks like any modern no name ATX PSU from China is better, than anything from Pentium 4 times :) I'll keep searching, and may be give an update on this video once I have something, but if you know a power supply with SCP on all rails, at least 120W on 5V rail and with -5V support, please tell me.

@Dxceor2486

4 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware I see ^^ I use myself a cheap AT PSU and indeed some board turn into firework experiments xD You might be interested by the outcome of this project : kzread.info/dash/bejne/mISYr9iJpafeYtI.html In the meantime, I am working on this project : www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=74070 As you seem to have quite a lot of hardware, would you like to help us ? ^^

@necro_ware

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Dxceor2486 Looks like an interesting idea, I will keep an eye on the forum and see if I can help somehow. However, if I'm allowed to ask, why did you choose win3x.org? Isn't it a French forum a la vogons.org? I guess such project needs to be better internationally available and will scare everybody, who doesn't know French. Just imagine, I'd put something like this on a German forum. I guess, everybody in the world would be scared and gone before he/she would have a chance to learn more about it :)

@Dxceor2486

4 жыл бұрын

​@@necro_ware Well that's because I'm from the staff of Win3x.org ^^ (so I'm french). Win3x.org has a forum part, but it's also a WinworldPC "competitor" I initially wanted to improve Win3x.org on the software side, and I developped this on my free time, but in the end we'll try to improve the international part of win3x We already have a international part, since at least the late 2000's but it never took off. I'm not exactly sure why, but we'll try to improve things. One of the probable reason is that we had to build a international base from scratch and there was probably little interest because there were alternatives existing already. This time there is no equivalent to this ^^ (and once the project is public, the forum will be just a part of the site, not the entire site, kinda like vcfed.org for example). I'll do my best to guide non french people to the right place :D

@necro_ware

4 жыл бұрын

@@Dxceor2486 Ok, understood, sounds great! I'll see, what I can do.

@Necroware 8:43 Oh rly? Many this kind of PSUs claim to have let's say 20A on 5V and inside there is 10A Shottky diode, so my question is how... By the way I took some day a wires out from cheap PSU where theoretically the strongest voltage rail claimed to be 20A and melted after 5A after a few mins. LMAO

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

True. Well one should take something, that delivers, what it advertises. I ended up using an Enermax PSU in my workshop, but the basics, which I was talking about in this video are the same.

Switching 120v is not dangerous for the user. every light switch in the us preforms that task without any issues, I think your statement is more than a little dramatic.

@necro_ware

2 жыл бұрын

Well, obviously you never got shocked by that yet. Sure, every switch on the wall is working with bare 120/230V too. But if you work in an open case (what often happens, if you repair computers) and the ribbon tubes on the contacts on the back of the switch slightly slide off, you'll get a really memorable moment in your life as soon as you touch it to switch the power. Believe me, that will wake you up better than 3 cups of black coffee. Modern ATX supplies keep mains voltage only in the PSU housing and outside is only low DC voltage, which is far more secure for us meat bags.

Hi, i have been watching your videos and you are doing a very nice work....just a remark here at 4:38...its arguable...220v or 110 is not high voltage....maybe you should say mains voltage....and its as dangerous as any atx power supply...on an atx there is also a possibility of mains shorting to the psu case.....nowadays millenial kisds freak out about anything that might have a hint of danger and also content creators especially in america seem to have a major fear about someone in their audience getting hurt and sueing them because they did something identical to what they watched in a video.....

@necro_ware

3 жыл бұрын

Hi thank you for the advise, next time I'll try to remember to say mains voltage instead. But if you ask me 230V is already high enough, at least it can easily kill someone. From this point of view, if a viewer gets more attention to it, if I say high voltage, it's probably not bad. If someone knows on the other hand if 230V can be counted as high or not, is probably well prepared already. And in regards of suing someone for doing something "like in that video", good luck with that in the EU. Luckily we don't have such stupid laws here as in the US :D

@MrHBSoftware

3 жыл бұрын

@@necro_ware hi its just my 2 cents:)...I watch a lot of retro hardware channels and it always annoys me the time they spend warning people about mains voltage and that they should discharge the capacitors and this and that...yes there is danger involved, but the way they talk and the time they spend just on those types of disclaimers just annoys me...i am glad you have common sense about it, the mainstream channels just seem to make a storm on a cup of water about the safety aspect of repairs....viewers should be warned but not scared to the point were some modern people cannot stand being next to a crt screen because it causes cancer and may implode and cut them etc......i repair vaccum tube tvs as a hobby, they are hot chassis, the high voltage for the anode of the crt goes from 12kv to 25kv, and the valves have mains derived voltages, ( virtually unlimited current), and there is a boosted voltage , that although low current can go from 300v to 1kv depending on the set, most of those are point to point wired. so they can be quite dangerous....a couple of days ago i was watching adrian digital basement messing around with some crt monitors and i thought i was watching someone defusing a bomb :)).....knowledge of the real dangers+ common sense = safety....for example discharging the anode before touching the inside of the crt should be done but it will not kill you unless you already have a severe condition....the voltage there is in the microamps range with the monitor on, with the monitor off , a charge is stored but its even lower current and it will last for a fraction of a second, enough to make you jump, trip, and hurt yourself in the process but it wont stop your heart and it wont burn your skin..discharging can be done with a long plastic handle screwdriver, 8 bit guy when he did that procedure he used a long wood stick taped to a screwdriver, its ridiculous...if someone loves retro hardware they have to really know it inside and out...... PS sorry for the long text, keep the good work, cheers from Portugal