I worked in a craft/fabric store some years ago. One day I was working at the cutting counter in the fabric area of the store. This older man and woman came up with some fabric to be cut. So the woman started up some small talk with me while I was measuring the fabric and she proudly told me her husband was a retired pastor. Oh my gosh, as soon as that came out of her mouth her husband blurted out in a very loud and angry voice that he was so happy to be retired and didn't have to put up with all those people and their problems anymore. I was stunned and i looked over at his wife standing next to him. She looked totally embarrassed! Nothing more was said and I finished cutting the fabric for her. I felt that he totally hated being a pastor all of those years and just got through it because it was all he knew. This guy may have still been a believer but he sure didn't believe in what he was doing.

@jonathancardy9941

2 жыл бұрын

People get burned out. It would be interesting to know how long he was burmed out before he retired.

@crystalheart9

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathancardy9941 I wish you could have seen how he said it. He just blurted it out in such an angry way. It sounded like he never was into it in the first place and was bitter about it. I've heard of pastors, priests etc. wanting out but don't know anything else and feel stuck. His wife looked stunned and I know I had a shocked look on my face because it was so startling to me. I worked with a lady who was engaged to a man who was studying to become a pastor and she said he decided to give it up because he couldn't take the pressure of everyone coming to him with their problems. I think he made the right decision for himself.

I can identify with Dan and also you Seth. During my deconversion I went from denomination to denomination (when I was in the Navy) and saw that so many of these churches contradict each other yet they all claim to have THE TRUTH while most of them read from the same version of the Bible. Seeing the contradictions in the Bible, the mental gymnastics of the apologists, the lies they tell about people in other religions and also the lies they tell about Atheists, the cop out bumper sticker answers to my very real questions. Always telling me I "think too much" which became crystal clear that this was merely a way to try and stop me from asking questions.The total insensitivity of other people to my problems with cop outs like "just turn it over to God" where I went to the ends of the earth to "just turn it over to God" much farther than those other people were willing to go (destroying video games, movies, CD's etc) and my situation only got worse and their answer to me is again "just turn it over to God". Then condemning me when I try other things (NLP, meditation) that don't actually contradict the Bible, and it is only THEIR interpretation and they don't like me going against their interpretation. The politics within the group (I give resistance due to my needs, I get the cold shoulder, treated differently, etc). You get to the point of just saying FUCK THIS SHIT!!! So glad I got out.

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

Good to hear you're free of that. The "don't think too much" thing is so much bullshit. There's a school of thought that says any thought more than x levels deep is too deep and ought to be stopped. It can apply to programming and AI research for example. Setting a limit like that in programming can stop a runaway process, which could be said to be the same as someone being so lost in thought they can't get out. Deep thoughts. Set it too shallow however and you make the program completely useless. It effectively becomes a vegetable. It might be a very happy vegetable, but it's still a vegetable. As for every church having a different take on their Truth.. Cristianity is True, but each version is True in a different way. And each church in each version is different. And each preacher in each church is different. And each believer is different under each preacher. In the end, there are millions, if not billions of One True Gods. There's an argument that God is actually the self. A reflection of one's own ego. It's pretty deep to go down that rabbithole, but one of the things it explains is why God always seems to agree with what you really want, and where morality comes from, and why it's sometimes okay to sin and so on and so forth. "God" is internal. On a related note, holy books. I'm reminded of a line from Terry Pratchett's book Small Gods (Definately a great read, hits many faith based nails on the head) - A character's thought on the new librarys collection of holy books. "There were one thousand, two hundred and eighty-three religious books in there now, each one-according to itself-the only book any man need ever read. It was sort of nice to see them all together." Hope this prompts a thought or two. Glad to hear you're out.

"More and more people are waking up and smelling the coffee. This grand awakening is going to be the ruin nation of religious faith. And I am overjoyed that this is happening!"

@rstevewarmorycom

4 жыл бұрын

ruination (sp)

@beckyepelle8030

4 жыл бұрын

@@rstevewarmorycom Thanks for doing it gently.

@karz12

3 жыл бұрын

The more we discover about the universe, the more and more we discover that we don't know.

@jestermoon

Жыл бұрын

❤🎉 100% 7:44 Stay Safe and Speech is vital 8:39 11:01 Stay Free

@zyrover

8 ай бұрын

It can't happen soon enough.

Hm, this makes me glad I was never religious and thus have nothing to miss.

@metatron478

5 жыл бұрын

I truly envy you in that aspect. I grew up Christian and I would give anything to do away with a lifetime of guilt and repression.

@scottsmith2235

3 жыл бұрын

You are lucky. 🍀

Seth and Jerry, so down to earth. So much to learn. Thank you both. Wonderful segment

This is a really good reminder why we atheists should avoid just calling someone stupid if they are part of a religion. We can never know what is their story.

I had a friend who told me she was an atheist. I did not make fun of her, my only statement was I did not understand. I was a true believer at the time. I understand now, and wish she was still around to have these discussions with.

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

One of my best friends in school was such a hardcore fundamentalist believer. We'd have arm waving almost-shouting arguements quite often, but were still good friends. He reinforced my lack of belief. I reinforced his belief. In our odd ways, we supported and helped each other. He's good people, just misguided. Seems to be how we viewed each other.

Former Anglican Priest here... been atheist since 2013. Never been happier.

This is such an awesome presentation! Thank you thank you! It was excrutiatingly painful for me to let go of Christianity, and I'm not in the clergy. I can't even imagine how much more difficult it would be for someone who preaches for a living!

I am an atheist,have been for a few years,but I grew up in Church of Christ. This show makes me wonder if some of the preachers, and teachers I grew up hearing had doubt, This was an eye opener! Loved it!

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

I've never been to church, but I do know many of the preacher types I've encountered were pro-humanist and very low-key on the god front. Makes one wonder.

Excellent podcast! That must be such a difficult position in which to be.

@jeffhough7460

3 жыл бұрын

Id still just quit... i have no family dependent on me tho... it has to be hard, definitely necessary though

It is just a job for there is a demand. Not every used car salesman is enthusiastic to sale their wares. Like the "closet atheist" they are making the only living they know. That being said; the "for reasons" fence needs to be prodded a little. We all need to stand and state what is important to the people we share our lives with. Otherwise we live a shallow life.

THANK YOU! Literally took 5 seconds to find and install...I'm FREE at last!

How does this affect peoples marriages though? I could imagine leaving the faith would shatter a marriage that is also rooted in the faith.

My belief started falling apart when I had to do a paper in college about how the Bible was cannonized. I had to go and read all those books that were well thought of and not put in. Like Barnabas, Clement, and the Shepherd of Hermes. Then I read the book "When Jesus became God" by Richard Rubenstein. I became more liberal and eventually left, but it took me about 20 years

hour and a half! aweeeeesome! and now these are every week!?!? YEEEEEEEES

Thanks so much for doing this show!

Seth, you are such an inspiration. I love that what you do is so current!

I am not a pastor but the “the first year is the hardest…”. Dan Barker I can so relate! When I started to deconstruct from religion, it was like a death, but not the death of another person, a death of the me that believed. The first 3 years were the hardest. And now six years after, I am still in the process but at the end of the process and coming to acceptance. I am not some well known person and all but I am starting to write a book about grief after deconstruction. For now it is just for me. But one day I may put it out there for the world to see too. I just wanted to say that for some it may take longer than a year!

I always had the feeling that the pastors of the church my family went to were skeptics. They just seemed to be going through the motions. You can tell when someone doesn't believe what they're saying.

MrOnionterror "Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheist".

Great show, Seth. I really enjoyed it.

@ 16:10> "moral dilemma / conflict of values" >> not only a great point, but well put; also, hearing the other guests contemplating exit strategies, the saying "don't cut what you can untie" comes to mind... best wishes to them in their struggles...

I feel for those who are seeking to come out as atheists, but are so caught up in the Christian Cult community that it could mean being shunned by everyone they know and love and especially those who will be walking away from the only career they’ve ever had. That’s got to be really hard. The Atheist community should be supportive and understanding. A lot of people really are caught between a rock and a hard place and having real problems that make it impossible to just walk away. You can’t eat principles or live in them, principles won’t pay the bills. My heart goes out to anyone in that position.

Funny as it sounds, i love hearing these deconversionstories as well. Even though i was never religious or raised that way Its fascinating, no 2 stories are the same but still follow the same path

I’m so proud to be an Atheist and the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. I’m so glad I left the INSANITY of Christianity and that’s exactly what it is is INSANE! Even after losing 2 of my adult kids who both passed away over the last few years I know for a fact that if I was still a Christian I’d either be permanently in a mental hospital or I would have slit my own throat because of the evil Christian belief systems…yeah Christianity is an evil hateful mindset! There’s no such hate like Christian love.

All of your podcasts are great but this one was especially. Very hopeful and inspiring.

My mom watches the Hal Lindsy report, what a coincedence.

When it comes to not leaving voluntary roles, for me it was that leaving the position would mean that something I'd put time into and that was actually a community service would close because no one would take my position (I was a youth worker at my church), thankfully in some ways church politics pushed me away, I was going to get it up and running again after the pandemic and after a year pass it over to someone else who I taught to run it properly (we never got super religious, our goal was purely providing a service and promoting jesus through actions and we were pro lgbt and had a few openly lgbt kids and everyone there understood mental health issues, so for a church run program it was very secular, we even had openly atheist kids who came cause they enjoyed it and liked talking about issues with us, we probably got away with it because we were just left to our own devices and never really bothered much) but they had decided without even talking to me that they'd close it after the other person running it quit during lockdown (they'd realised how much time it had taken up and they only joined as a temporary volunteer years ago), that combined with them no longer classing me as a responsible adult due to my eyesight just made me rage quit, that combined with the fact that everything to do with youth work has dropped to nothing over the last few years and a few other failed youth projects due to others badly running them, I just walked, that was the last straw. I'd still enjoy doing youth work but not in the church as it would be dishonest. So I can understand not wanting to leave a volunteer role. As said there might also be a family pressure element to that specific case but it's not as simple as just leaving.

For an infinite god, it’s crazy how Christian’s have such a finite number of arguments to defend their faith

My family and my significant others family is very religious, right wing people and I would LOVE to have conversations with them about this sort of thing because it's so important for others to understand why people aren't believing in this stuff anymore but I don't want to start a rift in between relationships. I don't want them to think of me differently because I dont believe in it. I feel like I would be stepping on people toes and all of their belief systems. The amount of times I've heard just stupid statements that I want to challenge is unreal. One day I'll be brave enough to speak out. I just hope that those I love have enough respect and understanding to see where I am coming from.

@stevendavis1940

5 жыл бұрын

You don't have to "come out," as it were, about being an atheist. At some point, just tell someone that you don't believe what he/she believes. If they ask you why, tell them. And, they will think of you differently. You either tell the truth, at the right time, and keep you integrity, or you continue letting people you love believe the wrong thing about you. Beliefs don't have to come between family who love each other.

When i left the ministry, i still believed it all. My heart breaks for people, in this situation.

i hope jerrys had some financial help and got his group to spread to many out there around him. To be a pastor leaving your faith couldn't be easy, it's like the captain leaving his ship its a huge bound to leave.

Same stuff in the country where i live (somewhere in Europe) ..hundreds of priests etc. still in religious functions who don't believe anything they tell and preach, they are non-believers. But they put their "moral teachings" into people - horrible! Monks, nuns same story. But they don't leave. Just because they are afraid, they have to look for a job etc. In the country where i live: only 2 of 10 christian religious teachers in schools believe that 'god' exists...!!!! But still they put the "stuff" in children...how sad!

@rstevewarmorycom

4 жыл бұрын

Many old priests in the USA are stuck, the Vatican made a deal with the Social Security Administration. The pope pays no FICA or Medicare, SO priests get no SS retirement. They only have a retirement if they stay in the church. If they leave, they have nothing, no SSR no Medicare. They are homeless and have only charity.

Imabeliever- have you read the old testament? Do you just ignore all the bad stuff about slavery, genocide and rape that God condones or even at times commands?

@irishgypsy25701

10 жыл бұрын

Women captives were allowed to be forced into slavery or marriage.

@captaink5217

6 жыл бұрын

Mindcrak Really, it’s readily available to be found and I think you know it, all you have to do is search the internet for “god supports rape” and bam all the verses in the buybull will be there to read at your heart’s content. It’s hard for me to believe in the Information Age as long as you know how to use a search tool that you honestly can’t find the relevant verses or is it that you choose to ignore them?

This is the best podcast yet.

Great show!

Seth, keep the deconversion stories coming. Very interesting stuff and uplifting that people are thinking and questioning...and this is coming from a person who was pretty much always an agnostic/atheist at heart.

I love every single caller. Wow!!!!!!

In the UK virtually no one deconverts as about 80 per cent of people don't believe in any religion.

@ritchie6162

2 ай бұрын

It’s ironic that America was founded to get away from the church’s control and from the UK and now we in the US are the ones struggling with evangelical nonsense 😭 I’m jealous of the UK for that.

What specific book did one of the callers read about early church history? Does anyone know the title?

@AgnosticPastor Lynn, thanks of coming on the show to tell your story. Your posts here make me wonder how much service to people drew you into your career, and if possibly folks like you could help lead to the development of non-theistic alternatives to church, where local groups that meet to share, support each other, socialize, do good works, learn lessons of moral and ethical nature and about the world. There is a need for these things, just not for the religion part.

incredible answer.

The references to Recovering from Religion and AA's journey to sobriety is profoundly understated.

this one was worth favoriting, love it!

Maybe it would be easier for some people not to admit to being a non-believer but just say that they are burnt out. They could even say that they need a break from church for a while.

Amazing

Interesting podcast...the one thing I wanted to comment on. The missing church thing, and the need for community. I went to and now run a pay it forward group.... I suppose in many ways this has replaced my "church" Huge collection of strangers from all over the US that reach out and help each other and others out.

Great episode. Jerry is from my part of the world. The Clergy Project now has over 350 members and a large waiting list to get in. The clergy are coming to reality by the droves! A couple of people in my office recently were talking about their methodist pastor just up and quiting their church. I said nothing but I knew he probably joined The Clergy Project.

I can't find the clip he's talking about with Dan Barker at TED...

@AgnosticPastor Wishing You all the best and good luck!

I really regret missing this podcast, I really wanted to hug a lot of the callers. :(

Wish I had more time for reading, I'd love to read Losing Faith in Faith.

Glad you used the lyrics I shared with you on your FB page! I think I may have gotten my wires crossed when crediting the song on your page, the lyricist is actually Nick Hornby, who is normally a best-selling novelist, and was tapped by Ben Folds to write lyrics to this album. Hornby is best known for the novels "High Fidelity" and "About a Boy," both best-sellers which were turned into movies.Not sure if copyright prevented you from playing, but you read it beautifully nonetheless! - David

Now, that's courage. I hear ya.

@NitsuaNaed Got some inside info that might support that notion?

Seth, what is your impression of someone such as John Shelby Spong?

I have reached the part of the podcast where Seth is speaking about how he's not one of the atheists that is angry. I dislike those types as well on both sides. I really get annoyed by the creationist who pounces at every opportunity to say "see? he's real!" then, the atheist who always takes the opportunity to do the same but for the opposing view. Patton Oswalt was on Craig Ferguson once and said those types of atheists (he identifies as an atheist) are just absolute assholes. I don't like to talk politics either because I get annoyed by both sides and, eventually want either side to STFU. My father and I actually share the same view(s) on politics, but he gets so passionate and "revved up" that I just wind up "rolling away" (I'm in a wheelchair lol).

I really feel for ministers of religion who live in small towns and who have young children. Some of them simply have to relocate.

Dan Barker truly is a remarkable man

Can some one tell me when The Thinking Atheist airs?

@waltermh111 It may very well not be the only way for society overall, but for some people, being religious leaders is all they know how to do. Would you be willing to help a person in such a situation keep a roof over his or her head and those of his or her family while going back to school?

As for your shows being about ex-believers, I think that is more important than ANY other content. I am very alone and although this show is not enough, it does help.

I actually debated against a person I know about religion (on Facebook) on this very issue. She ended up agreeing with slavery and the concept of eternal torture. That, saying I'm not from an ape, etc, and I had to end the conversation. I almost removed her from friends. Shocking to see otherwise an intelligent person stoop so low. (She even made personal attacks at me)

I just came across this very interesting topic. My question is... "is it a requirement for the pastor / preacher to be a believer?" If so... why?

Very good show, especially the callers. They all had great, as in significant, stories to tell. And something that came up a number of times, church without religion. I like the idea of church, people meeting for moral/philosophical lessons and discussions, people that support each other, maybe sing, do good works for the community. Too bad about the deity stuff and the sick and twisted ethics.

1:18:00 if they let you go from your job because of your atheism that is messed up

Sorry, what was the name of his book again?

@keithff1 If they were “sorry” what possible good would it be to the family for him to tell them so?

I wonder if it's because of the state church system, but in our country there's a term that translates roughly as "bread priest", meaning a preacher who does his job merely to get by. Not because he believes what he preaches, not because he thinks it's the right thing, but because he needs to eat too. It's such a well known concept that non-believing priests must have been quite a common phenomenon here.

love it

Audio in 480p! Wish KZread had just an Audio mode to save all that bandwidth. Don't get me wrong, I love TheThinkingAtheist re-broadcast hear on youtube.

Good episode. I would encourage folks not to ponder too long. While you worry about supporting your family or what the neighbors would say, your time to do the right thing runs shorter and shorter. Your family and friends deserve to know the real you and you deserve the chance to become responsible for yourself and know what that really means. Show them how it's done.

Take A Moment Stay Safe Stay Free 🎉

Half my family is in the clergy here in Rio, brazil... preaching or working for a chruch, and i am the ATHEIST of the family. They always try to treat me good... and i just feel terrible to tell them what i know... but i still do. Thats what i would like to people do with me, tell me the truth, even if it make their work tough(and it does).

why can't i comment or post anymore on the facebook page? =O

@Scyntist You have introduced me to a new variety of awesome.

Seth, you should do a video about the Reason Rally

Thinking on your own is forbidden by the cult leaders and enforced among the members.

@Rarae192 What's a luchador if you don't mind me asking

@Ceenymeeny In these situations, what is most important is the pastor's well-being and their family's well-being, not the fact that they feed an audience exactly what they want to hear about things they would believe regardless. Getting rid of pastors won't get rid of belief. Advertising strong ideas is what combats belief.

Once I worked at a small local paper, and one of my jobs was picking the weekly pre-written horoscopes out of a drawer and typing them up. I always added a line or two to them about "Look both ways before crossing the street" or "be sure to floss". I figure non-believing ministers can do something like that.

Good show

Great topic. I think I know a few myself.

I recommend the YT channel....Freedom From Religion Foundation - Dan Barker is a co-president. Also, you can join their separation of church and state focus at FFRG.org.

You really need to get Penn & Teller on the show!!

That is all emotional appeal and sound and fury signifying nothing. There were Jesus-like stories of Pagan tradition circulating the Mediterranean for centuries before him, eg, Horus, Zoroaster, Dionysus and others. He is not original. The gospel writers never even met Jesus and are still unknown. The church added the names in after the fact and no historian contemporary to him even mentions him. I realize you've built a belief system based on lies as a defense against your fear of.....

Thanks.

I was trying to find the lyrics of the song ¨Get Off Your Knees¨ in Google and Yahoo even in Bing, it is like they were erased from the internet, maybe the way they mention about TAXING THE CHURCHES is a Very Very Very Catchy Phrase, they should do T-shirts with those words.

You're welcome.........but nothing in the past is wasted today because we only live at this moment forward and can move past any previous tribulation even if it leaves us with some physical liabities...................keep using your mind that's what is great about the human experience.

Oh yeah, my favorite was "quit going to so many different denominations" which never made sense to me as if "God is not the author of confusion", this shouldn't be an issue...maybe they all know on some level that it's all bullshit, or at least are in denial of the fact.

Balance. Between your voice and theirs.

I still was a member of church leadership [unpaid] for a while after I no longer believed it. I was playing the bass for the music at a mega church of around 8,000 on Sunday mornings. Three services, and I had to sit through sermons each of those times because we had to come back up at the end. I felt hypocritical, but still enjoyed the music. Eventually, an incident happened that caused me to lose any remaining respect for the church, and I left, never going to a church again.

Thanks for the very interesting podcast. Where I live people do not really care that much about religion, so it's not that big of a deal for me but I can still understand that some people do really have to go through a lot of trouble when "coming out" as atheists. The more I admire them for doing it anyways. And the example of the son being happy that the dad is no atheist gives hope.

Seth - speaking of good song lyrics ... do you know "Free Will", from Rush? Check'em out (and listen to the great music), if you haven't yet ;-)

You mean this? "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

Those of you, who are losing or have lost faith in "God" may hear believers tell you that you're being brainwashed or misled by ungodly apostates. Remember that it's not you, who agree with atheism! It's atheism that agrees with you. You were led here by your own skepticism with open eyes and ears. You have a gift!

It is in you past...........manage how you can now and if you still have your mind you still have your creativity..............use it and enjoy it.

@WWZenaDo In fact he wouldn't drive the $65,000 car the "Church" gave him, because he said "The Church didn't buy it, the parishioners did and I'm not driving it.."

@Alexp0wns that response made me laugh a little inside.