This was all researched and recorded on Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896

The placebo noblestalk has got to be one of the funniest things in the game

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

She just gets a good whiff of it from your hands

My girl is so complicated.

@What_do_I_Think

Ай бұрын

Every is.

@ultimatequestions._

22 күн бұрын

She has borderline.

@ultimatequestions._

22 күн бұрын

Curse you, Bayle...

Okay so now I know why she wanted to kill her parents even with max approval and all of her dialogues in the city

@MoonsongReverb

Ай бұрын

I think it’s her default decision, she doesn’t know anything else until that creates point Unfortunately the room with the Night orchids was bugged even with patch 6. It didn’t trigger any reaction. I hope they fixed it by now The noblestalk you can give it to her, and another to Derith. KZread is full of videos about that :D

@UsuallyDestroyer

Ай бұрын

​You can also give noblestalk to the wife of Derith and eat it yourselg as durge. Anyway I am starting to spawn 10 noblestalks ​@@MoonsongReverb

lol the "strap in" with the giant list of different stuff I paused and was like holy shit looking it all over amazed at how many areas there were. then unpause "just kidding".

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

;)

One of my most favourite moments through the 30 or so playthoughs was when sharran shadowheart saved her parents by herself. I havent managed to repeat that since. Thanks for the explanation. It is super interesting because the extra NOT could be both a feature and a bug :D Thanks.

Isnt Shar straight up says that this is a lose-lose choice. Either sac parents and get rid of me, or save them and i stay. Am i imagining that? So for me this last confusing part about flags interaction seems very intentional and only mistake could be that Devs forgot to edit these checks for the sharran shadowheart.

@4m4n40

21 күн бұрын

That’s based on what Shar and her emotionally defeated dad say. More like a lose nothing or lose a lot situation with keeping or tossing away the parents.

@alexanderinoa7850

15 күн бұрын

From what I understand, if she kills her parents and sends them to Selune as moon motes she and her parents will be free from Shar's influence, and she won't suffer the Sharran wound every day for the rest of her life. if she saves them, then she continues to feel the pain for other est of her life. I also heard something about the wound dulling her emotions but I don't know where they got that from.

All I've ever had is dead Shadowheart parents. Now I know it's because of a couple of missed chats from city rambling, good to know!

@MoonsongReverb

17 күн бұрын

In my last play through i had to convince her not to kill her parents. The dialogue in the Or hid room was bugged for me. But knowing of that hidden graphity will help a lot ^^ I think it’s n intention done by the developers. If you want her to become Dark Justicicar, ahe will have to sacrifice her parents to Shar. If you want her to convert to Selune, well,… i feel the devs could have done better. Still Shar is also a godess of Forgetting, so keeping them alive despite the curse is more a decision that favors Selune. In my eyes at least

Thanks. Definitely don’t want to mess this up. The quality of life her parents would have, especially her mother, it honestly feels like mercy to let them go. Especially since they plead with her to do so

Gale also has a hidden points system, that might be worth a look

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yep, that's what I have my sights on, next

@galenibble

Ай бұрын

And Astarion too: if we give leave him after Cazador is defeated and give him the chance to decide for himself, he makes a choice about 7000 victims.

@colorfulsomething5008

21 күн бұрын

@@galenibble Oh! Also, is there points for wether he even wants to do the ritual? Or is it only approval? I could easily convince him as a lover, but I saw the scene in my friends game who COULD not convince him to not do it. So it was do the ritual or lose him

@galenibble

21 күн бұрын

@@colorfulsomething5008 if you let him talk with Cazador alone and stay somewhere in the ballroom upstairs, for example, he won't be able to do the ritual. And no repercussions for the player. He wants to do the ritual anyway: it's the whole point of this part of his journey, to be almost consumed by rage and despair in this critical moment.

Ugh, I had the option but decided to let her "free" her parents... and ending their misery.

@appelofdoom8211

Ай бұрын

I mean honestly neither are really "bad" outcomes for selunite shart as a character.

@cosmic_drone

20 күн бұрын

@@appelofdoom8211 I mean, in one ending she is happy, in the other she still feels the burden of her actions and regrets killing them.

@alexanderinoa7850

15 күн бұрын

@@cosmic_drone But she's also going to feel the pain of the Sharran wound for the rest of her life, and that might not be worth it when she eventually outlives her parents.

@cosmic_drone

15 күн бұрын

@@alexanderinoa7850 Pain is just that, pain. There are people who live with constant chronic pain that would not give up loved ones to be free of it, and that would even bear more of it for a chance to see a relative again. Bearing the curse and still being happy weakens Shar and is a big middle finger to her, and also SH reclaims her agency by not doing what Shar wants for once, which is also very important. As SH says: "She can twist the knife all she wants, I know I can survive her worst. (her punishment after freeing the nightsong). Nothing she does can sour the fact that have my family again." Her father is an 400-ish years old elf, and elves live more than 750, chances are her father will outlive her. tldr Shar is the goddess of Loss so basically: killing them > loss to avoid pain > SH still feels pain because of said loss (emotional) > Shar got what she wanted saving them > no loss to avoid pain > SH still feels pain, despite that continues to do good and is happy > Shar did not get what she wanted

These series of videos are amazing! Thank you!

I wonder if other origin characters also use this hidden points system to make decisions

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

From what I have seen so far, no other character is as complex as Shadowheart, at least not with this sort of "scoring" system. Of course, there are many different flags that get set and checked based on your actions that affect the companion interactions.

Can confirm ! My Shart ate the noblestalk (but bugged) and started the trials, I believe I got 3 Nightsong points total (cause bugs), but I got the 3 Parent points. I let her choose and she saved her parents.

@Azylys-

Ай бұрын

So blessed be the bugs of the Selunite chest and noblestalk 🤣

Thanks so much for this video!! You've yet again solved a mystery that had me baffled, it seems I be getting too many nightsong points for her to spare her parents when it is left up to her. The complexity of these scoring systems is fascinating, even if some things don't make sense or are potentially bugged.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I'm really not sure what they were thinking with that seemingly counterintuitive restriction on Nightsong Points, but at least knowing about it means you can decide which events and options you want to go for.

Awesome!! I had subscriber notifications on for this lol, thanks for the great breakdown! You finally solved the great mystery of that bugged conversation not happening.

My girl really is the most overworked one out of the rest)) Thanks for the detailed explanation! It's funny how in my first playthrough I didn't get enough Nighsong points but enough Parent Points, so when my Tav said, "You know the right thing to do," she saved her parents. Truly, it's bizarre to know how all worked out within the code, so I had little to no bags at all in regard to Shadowheart's quest. I can't say which ending for her is the best (from the lore perspective, it's open to interpretation to say the least, especially considering the epilogue party and how Shar, it seems, harm less her wound). Both have their ups and downs, but I think I prefer saving parents. In the end, my Tav would support Shadowheart's choice, no matter what she chose.

You are a godsend once again, thank you so much! It’s so interesting to learn about how the game decides what our companions will and won’t do. I wish I knew more about code because it’s such a fascinating topic to me.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

There's a lottttt of data, but I enjoy going through it, so I'm happy to keep making more videos like this as long as people wanna watch hahah.

Another ineresting video! Saw so many theories about his floating around, this is the first one with some hard facts though.

It might be a dev mistake to put the AND NOT there but it also might be intentional. Her parents are what keeps her away from faith in the Shar path and the abandon Shar path. With her parents gone she either becomes Shar's chosen or a travelling Selunite in the epilogue. If her parents are around she will move into a small cottage with them and she won't even mention her faith. Which outcome you prefer depends on your opinion on the gods in general and not on solely morality.

I've never had her choose to kill them even though I'm sure I've never had the smells of the city dialogue trigger after getting all parents points and giving her noblestalk

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The smells of the city dialogue itself isn't needed to set the flag (the way the other dialogues are), but just lets you know that you do have the flag set.

Fascinating, as always.

This excellent information.

I gotta try the noblestalk trick now!

The mystery is solved! Much appreciated, thank you!

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

But what would Shadowheart be without a little mystery

Glad my comment made it into the video, and it was really interesting to see why it works the way it does when I've only ever triggered it by accident.

I'd like to mention the Shadowheart dialogue option: "I want to talk about all that's happened to us". After using this dialogue option once, she will ever after respond with "Fine, what's on your mind?" But there are actually several unique first time responses to this from early act 1, late act 1, early act 2, late act 2, early act 3, entering lower city act 3. I'd love to see a video from you exploring upon this as it's an interesting treat that might be a fault in the coding. Thanks for making these videos.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

I have seen some oddly specific dialogue lines from her. For example, there actually is a way to see if you currently have 4+ Nightsong Points, but only if you specifically have between 40 and 50 approval with Shadowheart. I could take a look at the bit you're asking about, sure.

Would love to see similar videos on other companions!

This is interesting. In my playthrough, Shadowheart spared the Nightsong on her own, and I got the parents points “smells” conversation (and of course, she decided to save her parents). I guess my approval with her was high enough that she spared Nightsong even though I didn't have enough Nightsong points - I probably got 3 rather than 4, but I don't remember. Thanks for these videos. It really brings a new level of insight into the story.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yeah, the 40+ Approval is the important thing when it comes to sparing Nightsong, so unless you know the specific things to look for regarding Nightsong Points, it's not easy to notice how many you have.

I’ve done both choices with Shadowheart and her parents. I feel like her saving them is a better option. Especially as she settles down with them (and you if you romance her) and from the epilogue party and the dialogue available, Shadowheart’s wound is lessened, and she seems to deal with it pretty well. With Tav/Redeemed Durge, they have a great cottage core life together.

Ugh ;-; thanks for solving the parent trap

I think both options play well with Selûne as a goddess, just like how a Selûnite in the game can tell Shadowheart to kill the Nightsong. I think about how Selûne values self-reliance and making your own choices, that we all have changing moods and natures depending on each situation (just like Selûne does herself with the waxing and waning of Selûne the moon). "Let all on whom my light falls be welcome if they desire to be so. As the silver moon waxes and wanes, so too does all life. Trust in my radiance, and know that all love alive under my light shall know my blessing. Turn to the moon, and I will be your true guide." Great video, just like the previous one!

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The fact that, "Remain silent" always leads to her killing them does make it seem like it's the proper outcome. But we'll probably never know what Larian was thinking with this particular choice (just like the odd scenario in Act 2 where you have no option to avoid killing Nightsong).

Aah, this makes so much sense! Loved your video on the Nightsong points and you explain everything so well again in this one. What tool did you use to browse the game's code/scripts at 2:50?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

That is actually just a text editor, Notepad++. Much of the more code-ish scripts that I have seen are what the game files call, "Goals" and they can be extracted as basic text files.

Wow I was not super through in my first playthrough, I'm surprised I passed this check unintentionally

Thanks for the noblestalk tip. I tried to steal the noblestalk from derryth after giving it to her, but when I reached act3, her shop was poor as if I had never given it to her. so the devs expected this.

I would really be interested in seeing what if anything determines how Wyll makes his choice about whether to leave the pact or not? I know a lot of people complain that you have to choose for him but I think other people have gotten him to choose himself

@SlimXG

22 күн бұрын

During the cutscene in camp when Mizora shows up with her friends, the only options are to choose for him, and he always agrees with your choice. I'm planning to put together some of those (relatively) simpler options for the other companions into a single video, in the future.

You can also put the Noblestalk inside a container inside a container to let Shadowheart use it before selling it to Derryth, or you could switch characters and have someone else give it to Derryth in the middle of the conversation with Shadowheart.

In my latest evil Dark Urge playthrough, i had full evil SH, killed the Nightsong, helped destroy the grove and last Last Light Inn, you name it. I did catch the 3 memory dialogues for her and by default she wanted to save her parents. But being evil i insisted she kill them. By default she would save them. I didn't do the night cave until after the parents. But the smells of the city did occur right after the graveyard. I didn't do the mushroom with her.

As long as she gets the memories in the city, she's always spared her parents, in both paths, in my experience. As long as you leave it up to her. I only tried giving her the Noblestalk in Act I once, & I think that was an early playthrough, before I'd figured out where the memories were, so I have no idea how that factors in.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Right, you probably didn't get 4+ Nightsong Points in those playthroughs, which is pretty common, especially without including the Noblestalk.

@charlesboots6508

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG Granted, she's only ever killed Nightsong because I told her to. But it was fascinating to watch her turn against Shar in the House of Grief. So much better than sparing Nightsong in the Shadowfell, which IMO comes out of nowhere. I understand why they made it that way, game mechanics wise, but I think it's a better narrative to have her kill Nightsong (because why would she trust anything this Moon Witch devotee says?) then, when she has something personal at stake (her parents) decide to think for herself.

I did all of these and I never got her to spare her parents voluntarily

OR it's supposed to be a second chance kind of thing. If you didn't get enough Nightsong points in the first 2 acts, it gives you another way to convince her.

Fantastic and informative video. Been reading through everyone’s takes on the subject, whether the nightsong part of it is a bug or not, and I’m of two minds. On the one hand, the argument could be made that in order to fully devote herself to Selûne, Shadowheart has to rid herself of any sharran influence (in this case the “incurable” wound). This is in my head, is a justification from a purely religious standpoint. I'll go into more depth on this in a bit. From a gameplay perspective, this sort of seems like a bug. What are the Nightsong points really? They're points that indicate Shar losing her grip on Shadowheart, whether it be through her remembering her past or the player’s influence, resulting in her “spurning the Dark Lady”, as Nightsong herself puts it. Parent points, in this light, are just are a second set of memories/triggers used to see whether or not Shadowheart sacrifices not just her parents, but her past. When not enough parent points are obtained, from her perspective, she’s really sacrificing the “idea” of her past, represented in the form of her parents - the last direct link. However, the more she remembers of her past, the more inclined she is to save it. Which choice is right? Like many have said, it’s perspective. Her parents are willing to sacrifice themselves to rid their daughter of her physical pain. This is the noble and “what you'd expect a parent would say” answer. Analyzing the situation more closely, you realize it’s more complicated than that. Shar is really forcing Shadowheart to substitute the physical pain of the wound with emotional pain. It’s not simply grief, it’s guilt. It’s the idea that she could have saved her family and chose not to, making her in some way, complicit in their deaths. This is why Shar doesn't just kill Shadowheart’s parents herself. She wants to continue manipulating Shadowheart in either outcome. Shadowheart confirms this herself by stating Shar is hoping the insurmountable emotional pain will force her back into her embrace. Its the reason Shar actually restores many of Shadowheart’s horrible memories. In this sense, no ending really rids Shadowheart of Shar completely. Like many have stated, it’s a lose-lose. It strikes me as odd that the devs would intend for high nightsong points to cancel out the parent points. If you turn Shadowheart away from Shar sooner, why should that result in her sacrificing her parent? Shadowheart has no knowledge of her parents while you're gaining nightsong points. The two don't seem to have any correlation, except if you look at it from a religious standpoint. Gaining more nightsong points means you’re pushing Shadowheart closer to fully embracing Selûne, with her first act being saving Selûne’s daughter. Given Selûne’s nature of valuing life and family, it seems counterintuitive that gaining favor with her would result in Shadowheart feeling she has to sacrifice her own parents, unless Ketheric Thorm was right. Ketheric states that when his wife - and later his daughter - died, Selûne did nothing about it, despite them being faithful servants. He states that they're all just pawns of the gods. “Pieces to be moved around,” I think he says. If Selûne is really so petty as to not wholly welcome Shadowheart because she still has her rival sister’s curse, to me makes me question whether Selûne is even worth following. Lorewise, I don't think this accurately portrays the Moonmaiden, but that's what the effect the nightsong points end up having in regards to the parent situation.

Nice video. Have you looked into the KarLach 4th wall break? I want to trigger it again i feel strongly ive seen the scene organically in my first playthrough. I know this because of how much of a completionist i am knowing all the details of this video for example from my first playthrough with shadowheart just being observant. I bet you could crack that puzzle and get the $500 prize!

@SlimXG

26 күн бұрын

I have looked into it. The dialogue script file for that scene has a developer note that says, "CURRENTLY CAN NOT BE TRIGGERED!", the dialogue trigger is flagged as "IMPOSSIBLE" (a flag used to block unused content), and the camera positions during the scene are clearly unfinished, popping around to random spots. It seems very unlikely that the scene is intended to be seen, in its current form. And it seems likely that anyone that thinks they saw the scene in-game is either misremembering or somehow stumbled into a bug where the wrong scene played.

I enjoy your videos so much! Even though I was a little disappointed that this wasn't gonna be an hour long technical deep dive on parent points 😅 I'd be interested if there is a similar mechanic for Lae'zel and Vlaakith, as I am currently doing a Gith run and want Lae'zel to follow Vlaaktih and always tried to encourage that, but when I let her choose freely wether to believe Voss or trust in Vlaaktih after the Créche, she chose to abandon Vlaaktih, so I had to reload and gaslight her :( Also, though I'm not sure if you can even leave this choice to Wyll, but when he has to decide to break the pact or continue the pact to save his father and even later when he has to choose between Blade of Avernus or the politician life, does this also have a hidden mechanic? And, since all the original companions have at least one important choice to make during their adventure, do similar mechanics exist for Astarion's ascension, Gale's ascension and Karlach's "descension" (= going back to Avernus)?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The only one that I have seen so far with any kind of similar "scoring" system is Gale, regarding his attitude toward the crown. The rest either have binary flags that lead them one way or the other (like Lae'zel) or are less than meets the eye and always favor one action unless you specifically talk them out of it, like Astarion ascending. The game seems to want Lae'zel to follow the path of Orpheus, since when Voss shows up, every option causes her to go down that route other than telling her to kill Voss. But you do have the later cutscene with Vlaakith in camp, where you can pass a skill check to swap Lae'zel's path. When Mizora presents the choice in camp about Wyll's father, there is no option to say nothing; you can only encourage Wyll to save him or to let him die/stay dead.

@LeoTheDarkAngel

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG Thank you very much for that explanation, or rather, those explanations!

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

@@LeoTheDarkAngel I've seen a few people ask about those character topics, so I may collect them into a video about how they're simpler than you'd think hahah.

@LeoTheDarkAngel

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG I've just started a new playthrough with Gale and now I'm wondering...are there certain mechanics for triggering the arcane hunger? I've read some posts online of people trying to make sense of what seems to trigger the hunger but so far couldn't find a conclusive answer (someone even suspected it has to do with their Tav's class). Maybe that is a little more complex than the story triggers for the other origin characters? :)

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

@@LeoTheDarkAngel Ah, I've seen a bit of that, though hadn't dug into it properly. That's actually a good idea to include in a Gale video, along with the crown/bomb attitude. I do know that moving from region to region is at least one of the triggers.

If you haven't I think maybe you should do Lazeel. In my recent play through I had her stay true to vlakith & be devoted. She killed Orpheus, and when given the choice for her to decide her fate without my input she decided to stay in Faerun

@SlimXG

26 күн бұрын

My current plan is to follow the Gale video with one that collects the other four companions to describe their relatively simpler decision systems/common questions. If one of them ends up more complex than I think after digging in further, I'll give 'em a dedicated video.

Huh so my first playthrough I think I didn’t get enough nightsong points because my character was trying to be not judge and see where she was coming from. I did that like DC30 check to tell her to not kill nightsong. Then in act 3 I think the only parent point I got was the orchid grove, but I distinctly remember getting the convo about the smells of the city earlier when roaming around. Maybe I did one of the other parent points and I forgot. Then when the time came she did decide to save her parents. Interesting that I got that really only through a bug.

Giving Shadowheart the noblestalk bugs the trigger for the "smells of the city" dialogue and will not appear when the conditions are met. There's a fix you can find online (and the test done to find that out), but Larian needs to patch it. Her interactions during the trials doesn't affect her choice in the House of Grief, neither the nightsong points (as my experience on my runs, had all points > got the "smells" convo > she chose to free her parents).

@SlimXG

20 күн бұрын

This video shows exactly what's going on in the code, and I tested it thoroughly. I even tested it again right now to confirm. The only connection the Noblestalk has is that it's one of the Nightsong Points. However, the "smells" conversation popping up is also blocked by the same "background" flag that I discussed in the Nightsong Points video. If that is set at the time you get the second Parent Point, you won't see the smells talk. That may be what is confusing some people. But even if that happens, the Enough Parent Points flag is still set, so the sparing the parents for free can still happen.

Tbh I got her killing her parents and I thought that was just the "best" outcome, i.e the one that she really wanted. I know for a fact that I most likely missed the graveyard point but got the other two points but I also got the Nightsong points so when I let her choose she chose to kill them since I couldn't get the cutscene. However I don't exactly think that's a glitch, it might be but it's also just a really bittersweet and in character moment of Shadowheart letting go and having to deal with losing her parents in exchange for finally being free of Shar. It hurt but I don't think it was a bad ending to that plot point. Sometimes love is loss.

I interested in Gale God points. There has to a mechanism as to why Gale is so ready to reject Mystra in some runs, while he will willingly sacrifice himself at the end in others, to the point that dissuading him needs a skillcheck

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

I'm'a already workin' on it. And yeah, there are multiple opportunities to push him in one direction of the other, particularly if you are in a romance with him.

Now I'd like to know why in my playthrough she killed her parents, but at the reunion party she said that her father takes care of the animals back home while we're away (or something similar, but clearly stating that her father is alive).

@SlimXG

24 күн бұрын

Maybe the animals are also dead

@SereglothIV

24 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG bruh 💀

Next time, could you please explore the system behind Gale's decision regarding the Orb?

@SlimXG

27 күн бұрын

That video is already well under way, so, yes. =)

@theawickward2255

26 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG Thank you.

Very interesting, shes so complicated gd

interesting! i'm curious, is there anything like this that influences wyll's actions regarding his soul vs. his father in act 3?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

In the camp scene with Mizora, it's always up to the player to choose.

@Mary97574

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG 😭aww poor wyll, thanks though :')

Well this explains a lot. I’ve always let Shadowheart choose and she’s always killed her parents but spoke to others about it and I was confused by what they said as it counteracted what happened on my playthroughs now I know why. Edit: to edit in all of those people had romanced Shadowheart but I hadn’t so we assumed that was the reason why but clearly not.

Can you do a vid on how to make jaheira call you cub? I play like 3 save now and only my first playthrough she call cub.

@SlimXG

29 күн бұрын

From a quick glance, it appears to be as simple as recruiting Minsc into your team, talking to Jaheira about him, and then having 40+ Approval with Jaheira. I can test it for sure once I've got a save setup for those conditions.

@lhectorzl2928

29 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG thanks

I had some really weird bugs in my first playthrough ( no mods or cheats) The graffiti convo triggered twice. Once where it is supposed to and the second after I killed Raphael in the house of hope. A ! came up and she talked about the graffiti. I was confused at first because I thought ahead been there and tagged somewhere so I was looking for it.

please do not feel rushed at all but i would love an act 3 honor mode guide made by you.

@SlimXG

24 күн бұрын

I have begun working on it, though I've also got more videos like this one that I want to make, so I'm not sure when the Act 3 guide will get finished. The honor mode guide videos take wayyyy more work hahah.

I was like wtf I got all parent points and she still turned them into moon motes, but there was a cutscene missing or something suddenly they were just moon motes. Damn bug.

Everyone thought it was weird that she chose to kill her parents. Turns out yes, it absolutely was. Well done. I'm convinced this is a developer error.

@Tuskbumper

Ай бұрын

Honestly I thought it was fine that she chose to listen to her parents wishes

@Sylvantess

Ай бұрын

She didn't "kill" her parents. She respected their wishes. She also respected Selune's guidance, because in doing this she had rid herself from Shar's influence permanently. The wound on her hand disappears. I'm not saying this is necessarily a "good" choice, but the operative word here is exactly that - choice. Shadowheart's parents chose to let go, no second thought. If someone chooses something knowing full consequences of their choice, then you have to respect that. Otherwise you're being selfish.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The "true" path being that she lets her parents go doesn't seem hard to believe. The odd part, in my opinion, is that there's no difference on the Shar path. Pushing her away from Shar by getting Nightsong Points then makes her more likely to follow Shar and kill her parents.

@brandonlopina7733

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG To me personally, I feel like the idea was that in the Dark Justiciar line, Shar has a win-win situation. If Shadowheart has attachment to her parents then Shar can hold them over her and easily manipulate her. If Shadowheart gives up her last familial attachments and kills them then Shar has truly cut her off from her last attachments to her former life. This Shadowheart is likely to cut off the Party itself if or when Shar calls for it in the future. A fine replacement for Viconia Devir. I wonder if something must be special about Shadowheart. Viconia was made to sacrifice a whole Cloister just to move shop and set up a new one in Baldur's Gate. I wonder if Viconia had a journal on each member of the Cloister, only on Shadowheart, or on the more promising members. Dark Shadowheart reminds me of Anakin Skywalker falling down the path to darkness. Familial bonds to bind them and then cutting them off/killing them to finalize their fall, rising as an agent to a dark power. Its not a one to one comparison but similar themes.

@stranger6822

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG you know more about it than I do. I'm just commenting that it seems odd to the point of being seemingly unintentional. If my understanding is correct, it would be difficult to have SH, on a good path, choose to spare both the Nightsong and her parents. That to me seems odd. If these extra cutscenes and flags are there to determine the outcome with her parents, why have them tied to Nightsong points on a good path? It sounds to me like it works this way, to have her choose to spare her parents: 1. SH must have required approval 2. She must NOT have had the necessary flags to spare the Nightsong, hence the player talked her into that 3. She must have seen specific scenes in act 3. Why tie this to the Nightsong at all in the good path? If she has already spared the Nightsong then having her choice tied to unlocking memories of growing up (parent flags) makes sense, but why should sparing the Nightsong impact that? On the other hand, if on the evil path and assuming she had to be talked into killing the Nightsong, then I could see why she might choose to save her parents or at least refuse to kill them. But is that even what happens? This is all confusing.

So if you want Shadowheart to free the Nightsong and her parents, you have to pick between a Persuasion check in the Shadowfell or a Persuasion check in the House of Grief.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Well, no. You only need 40+ Approval to spare Nightsong with no skill check. Just trust Shadowheart at the first option, and tell her that Nightsong knows something about her at the second option. Without 4 Nightsong Points, the second options will include a Persuasion check, but you can just ignore it.

So I have to choose between Persuading her to not kill the Nightsong, or Persuading her to not kill her parents. This is why I chose Lore Bard for my HM attempts; I'd be screwed without Persuasion Expertise. Also it's nice to finally have an answer as to why that "City Smells" conversation seems like such a crapshoot; so many people, myself included, just figured it was bugged.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Well, as long as you have 40+ Approval with Shadowheart, you can still guarantee she spares Nightsong with no check. Just trust her at the first choice and then tell her that Nightsong knows something at the second choice. Without 4+ Nightsong Points, the second set of options will present a Persuade, but you can ignore it.

I also could’ve sworn I found the little grove and the graffiti but she still killed her parents, but perhaps I found one of them afterwards. But I did have enough nightsong points and she spared her as well, so that’s probably the bug/mystery you mentioned. So does this mean you have to have her kill the Nightsong for her to spare her parents? Sorry it’s been a while since I did that first playthrough, can’t quite remember how things go down lol.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

There's always the option to pass one of the skill checks to spare her parents, but that option I highlighted in the video is the one that either spares or kills depending on the conditions I described. It's not about killing the Nightsong (though that does radically change the rest of Shadowheart's story and attitude for the rest of the game), but if you did or didn't get 4+ Nightsong Points and then if you found two of the memories in Act 3. For whatever reason, getting 4+ Nightsong Points (which is seemingly the "good" thing to do) will stop the Act 3 memories from setting Shadowheart up to spare her parents, if you pick that option to let her do her own thing. But since, "Remain silent" also *always* leads to her killing her parents, it may be the "good" thing to do, in the end.

@GabbyPlaysGames02

Ай бұрын

That’s a good point. Ironically that’s what I did my first playthrough, as I was mostly thinking pragmatically. Her parents have been suffering greatly, they want to die so their daughter can be free. I can’t imagine the guilt they feel if she ends up sparing them. So by killing them, Shadowheart is (relatively) free of Shar, and her parents are no longer suffering. The little “orbs” her parents turn into was also a touching scene. But her epilogue of being able to settle down and live out her Noah’s Ark fantasies with her parents sounds nicer for her than having to constantly move out of fear of angry Sharrans.

I only have a bit of coding experience, but I am looking to explore some of the script files similar to what you are doing (just for fun because I think this kind of stuff is super interesting). Where do you find these script files? I've started looking through the package contents, but I'm not sure where I would find the script that would show, say, the Nightsong points. I am on a mac, so I am additionally working to figure out how to extract the pak files. Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

@SlimXG

13 күн бұрын

I'm not sure what tools are available for Mac. The files you see in the text editor in the video(s) with lines like "PROC_CounterIncreased("ORI_Shadowheart_ParentPoints")" come from the "Goals" files, which are extracted from a save file.

@paulsteller6508

13 күн бұрын

@@SlimXGthank you so much! That’s very helpful!

Huh, this is super interesting. As much as I was surprised that she chose to kill her parents in my game, I'm kind of inclined to think that this was intentional. Saving them would result in Shar permanently having a degree of control and influence on her, and her parents were telling her that they were at peace and were ready for her to let them go.

now can you explain how Shadowheart knows how to swim even if you never teach her how to swim? that's the only mystery left for me

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Maybe's there's a SwimmingPoints system . .

I would be interested if Gale has god points, if Lae'zel has Vlaakith points (can you even actually be on Vlaakiths side?) or "stay in faerun" points. And for Astarion, if his willingness to not do the ritual is based on points or only approval. It feels like you can push him in a direction in dialogues, long before the actual scene. Also his own descision about the other spawn can differ from what I've heard

@SlimXG

21 күн бұрын

Gale does have a score that affects his attitude about the crown and the bomb. I'm workin' on that video right now. As for the others, they don't have a score like that, but you can influence those various decisions through choices. I'll probably be covering the other origin companions together in one video, unless I find something more complex for one of them once I start digging deeper.

@colorfulsomething5008

20 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG nice! Looking forward to that

Could you look into the code for the Mirror of Night and demystify that a bit? I find it so odd that you can pass the DC 25 Religion Check and still not always get an ASI

@SlimXG

27 күн бұрын

This request sent me down quite the rabbit hole of code. Stuff that _would_ be simple, if I knew just a bit more about Larian's scripting system, but I was able to eventually figure it out. This woulda been a good thing to include in this video, had I thought about it beforehand. But after all the digging into it I did, today, I do kinda wanna make a video about it, now hahah. Lemme see what I can whip up.

How did you get the flaming fist armor??????

@SlimXG

27 күн бұрын

It's in a chest in southwest corner of Wyrm's Rock Fortress. It's guarded and locked up, so you can either sneak in, or wait until you've cleared out the place to get it.

I take issue with the idea that to follow the Moonmaiden Shadowheart HAS to kill her parents. That's nonsense to me and is the antithesis of Selûnite doctrine. The only reason she has to make the choice at all is because of Shar's spite and cruelty. She wants Shadowheart to kill them so that the pain of loss will send her running back to Shar for relief. By saving them however Shadowheart is spurning Shar and Shar's doctrine and chooses to live a life of love and happiness she wanted. And Selûne empowers Shadowheart regardless. No, Shadowheart follows the Moonmaiden in the end with either choice and it's beautiful.

@Wathon1884

22 күн бұрын

My thoughts exactly.

How did you reverse engineer to get the osiris code?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

I used a variety of tools created by people much more experienced in that department than I am. Norbyte, for example.

This is pretty off-topic, but - do you know what the trigger for Astarion's mirror scene in Act 1 is? I can never manage to trigger it in my playthroughs, and I'm curious what I'm doing to keep missing it.

@SlimXG

8 күн бұрын

The requirements are that you know he's a vampire and that he's told you that Cazador was his master. He'll tell you about Cazador as soon as you first talk to Raphael, but only if you already know he's a vampire before that. Otherwise, the Gur hunter in the swamp is the way to find out. But there are also other events that can queue in front of the mirror scene, like when Astarion is drunk on bear blood or his first romance invitation. So you may need to Long Rest multiple times to get to the mirror scene, even after you have the requirements met.

@b.lightyear3455

4 күн бұрын

@@SlimXGThanks!

i guess i wont ever have shadowheart save her parents willingly as i always seem to surpass with nightsong points, i hope they fix it bc I've been trying to see her talking about the city smells lmfao

@VoFALT

Ай бұрын

She still does it willingly. You just have to pass the persuasion check.

I wonder if its possible theres a bug to make her dark justiciar save parents happen?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

For the Dark Justiciar version, the checks play out the same way. You can get the same Parent Points from around the city, and the "Enough" flag is always blocked if you got enough Nightsong Points. When it comes to the parents scene, you have a similar dialogue option to the one on the Selune path ("Do whatever you feel is right, Shadowheart."), and it makes the same checks: 50 Approval and Enough Parent Points for Shadowheart to spare her parents. That's what makes the whole thing seem strange, since enough Parent Points flag = NOT enough Nightsong Points, which should mean she's more Sharish and more likely to obey Shar and kill her parents.

@fathurrachman9498

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG seems like she will get "good for her" ending if we already meet the requirement point. If shart go to selune path her best decision is to sacrifice her parent while for dark justiciar path she will safe her parent instead. Both will lead her to be free of shar for the rest of her life.

Can you fish out if Karlach's 4th wall breaking dialogue can be triggered ingame, without modifying the game files? Somebody announced a 500$ for it, and I think you can claim it (if it's possible) :P

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Hah, yeah, I even commented about the topic on that video. The camera positions during the scene look clearly unfinished, popping around to weird spots and angles. The trigger is flagged as "IMPOSSIBLE" and the dialogue file itself has a developer note that says, "CURRENTLY CAN NOT BE TRIGGERED!" so I'm thinking it probably currently can not be triggered.

How do you meet Nocturne before getting to the house of grief?

@TheLanceUppercut

Ай бұрын

I think he meant talking to Nocturne before or after finding the little night orchid cave

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Correct

Thanks, that's why in my run she killed her parents. I am sure I had at least two parent points, but that "and not" crosscheck with nightsong points probably altered my run. I was still planning to do a second run as dark urge with patch 7, so maybe it will be fixed for that date :) P.s.: no way I am giving the noblestalk to Baelen, that wife abuser can rot in hell.

@SlimXG

24 күн бұрын

Derryth is the wife . .

@SupaaRaphael

18 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG Oh f, sorry ahaha I meant Baelen. Got my wires mixed up :)

@SlimXG

18 күн бұрын

@@SupaaRaphael Well, you *can* kill Baelen and still give the noblestalk to Derryth, if that'll make you feel better

@SupaaRaphael

18 күн бұрын

@@SlimXG and that's what I did in the last run :P

@SlimXG

18 күн бұрын

@@SupaaRaphael Everybody wins!

What is the blue armor with the orange/blue badge ? Is that from a mod?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The armor Shadowheart is wearing? That's the Flame Enamelled Armour from Act 3, with some kinda dye. Dark Amethyst, maybe.

@doloresabernathy9809

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG Thanks!

This is amazing thank you! Any insight on convincing Gale to take the crown or not?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yep, I've begun writing down notes for that very topic. I can say, so far, that it's mostly impactful if you're in a romance with Gale.

@mim9000

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG yay! Thank youuu!

i doubt it but i hope shadowheart has a 3rd secret point system.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

>.>

@kyla2990

Ай бұрын

Does the wolf dream point system count?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I mean, she has Wound Flares, Wolf Dream Points, Nightsong Points, Parent Points

@bmetallaoui

Ай бұрын

I forgot about those. She has points to see if you get points lol. Surely she doesn't have *looks at notebook* a fifth point system

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

@@bmetallaoui She's also got a lot of Exclamation Points

hey, unrelated but your voice sounds extremely similar to youtuber Blaine Locklair to me, are you the same person? 😅

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

o_o I didn't know who that was, but looked him up and listened a bit. I'm also old, but c'mon, I don't sound *that* southern . . (Even I have to admit how noticeable my accent is when I say the word, "parent")

3:15 there's no way this is correct. I (on my honour mode run so there's no way savescumming was involved either) did have the Nightsong points to have Shadowheart spare the Nightsong without a check but I also did these interactions and picked the dialogue where she gets to choose. She saved her parents. Unless there's an amount of Nightsong points that's below 4 that gets her to still spare the Nightsong? Looking back at the other video about Nightsong points it shouldn't be possible according to these videos yet it happened in my run.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Yes, Nightsong Points are not required to spare the Nightsong, even with no skill check. The important thing is having 40+ Approval with Shadowheart. Having 4+ Nightsong points on top of that just changes some of the dialogue lines and completely removes any Persuasion options at all from the second set of choices.

@kinggamereon653

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG I see, that explains then. I am completely sure I got at least 3 Nightsong points but I can't recall if I got the 4th or not since I can't recall if some actions were on that honour run or another run.

When I saw the title of this video I got really angry because I was like "they are just ripping off the work that one guy did in his secret Shadowheart mechanics breakdown" then I realized that you are actually the same person and I feel better now. lol

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Give me some more time and I'll keep ripping myself off even more!

Can you please find how to trigger the Karlach breaking the 4th wall dialogue.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The trigger is flagged as "IMPOSSIBLE" and the dialogue file itself has a developer note that says, "CURRENTLY CAN NOT BE TRIGGERED!" so I'm thinking it probably can not be triggered.

Here's my take on the Nightsong points check. More Nightsong points means that Shadowheart is more mistrustful of Shar. Thus, it also means that she's more likely to want to be completely free of Shar, and kill her parents. I think the best ending for her is to reject Shar, but also not give in to her hate of Shar, freeing her parents without losing her ties to Shar

Imaginary mushroom😂

Yay, I requested this one. Nice work! Here’s another suggestion: will Wyll ever choose to become grand Duke if you tell him to decide for himself after the Wyrmway? If so, what does the game check?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

If you tell him to follow his heart, he will always choose to be the Blade of Frontiers if he's hornless and Blade of Avernus if he's horny.

@nonarygaming9520

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG a shame. Gale surely has more interesting variables?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

@nonarygaming9520 Gale is the distant second place of complexity after Shadowheart. He does have a sliding scale of attitude about the crown, and about the idea of blowing himself up. I've started digging into that one for a likely video.

finally someone makes a video about this. I feel like I was the only one who knows this lmao

Evidence that saving her parents is correct... the damn effort it takes. Good thing we all play Charisma characters, eh?

Even though I've never managed to get her to save her parents by herself (due to this weird 'bug' in the code), I still convince her to do so. Finding her parents again, only to have to sacrifice them is Shar's final fuck you for trying to leave her service. My attitude is, fuck Shar. Don't let her have the satisfaction. Taking her parents out of the cloister and enduring the wound anyway is Shadowheart's only way of giving the middle finger back to Shar. Her only way of actually saying no and sticking it to Shar. She'll be in pain, because Shar is petty like that, but if it were me, it would be worth it just to spite Shar.

@What_do_I_Think

Ай бұрын

Even when the parents want to die? Just for a "FU". I think, the better FU is to cross Shars plans, to free Níghtsong and SH and also tear doen her temples.

@TheLanceUppercut

Ай бұрын

@@What_do_I_Think Her parents are willing to sacrifice themselves to free her from Shar. Because of course they are, they're her parents. That's not the same thing as wanting to die.

@What_do_I_Think

Ай бұрын

@@TheLanceUppercut The motivation of the parents is not so clear, as you depict it. It can be both IMHO. Or can you give clear prove? I guess, no. It is just your personal impression / opinion.

@TheLanceUppercut

29 күн бұрын

@@What_do_I_Think I guess my proof is how happy they are as a family if they survive.

@What_do_I_Think

29 күн бұрын

@@TheLanceUppercut Did you expect them to whine all day, just to show you differently. No proof at all.

Thank GOD its a bug. I always allow the characters to do what they want, but if they make a decision that very obviously hurts them it always hurts me too. I couldnt let Shadowheart kill her parents so I reloaded and did the persuasion check, and felt really bad. If I'd done everything right, surely she would've spared them? Now I know it was the game's fault and I did do everything right. What a relief.

I must say, that the question if the parents should be killed or not is still a mystery to me. For one, the parents clearly state that they want their lifes ended and also the dialog seems to imply that as long as the parents live, SH is still under the influence of Shar, even when she serves Selune. Also what happens to the (dead) parents seem to indicate that this might be the correct fate for them. Maybe that is the reason, the NS points block those parent points. It is still somewhat unclear, what a better ending is -- dead parents or living parents -- for SH herself. At least one thing is absolute clear for me: The ending with SH becoming a Dark Justiciar is a BAD one for her. That is imperative from the dialogs you get with her when you have romanced her -- and just also look what the Nightsong says aboujt the Shar service, which is absolutely true from I have seen of all of it. Shar throws away even her most devoted servants -- just for kicks.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

Right, Shadowheart being pushed more toward Selune making her want to let her parents go seems to make sense. It's just odd the way the checks are actually made in the code, and the fact that the mechanic works the same way if she's on the Shar path. With how complex all the flag checks can be for a lot of other choices, I'm surprised it was coded in this particular way, rather than with multiple specific permutations.

@What_do_I_Think

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG I am just wondering. The coding is in clear text in the game? Or is there some scrambling / unscrambling involved? What language is that?

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

@What_do_I_Think The actual game executable code I've made no efforts to gain access to. The game's data files are in PAK format and can be extracted to find script files that are fairly readable. To put together the full picture on most stuff, I look through the dialogue files, the "Goals" files, and local save files.

@What_do_I_Think

Ай бұрын

@@SlimXG Thank you very much. Interesting. I may also have some look, when I have time to do that. Sounds real interesting. Nice that you already have looked for us! I really profited from the last ones with the Nightsong points. I am currently testing it also -- at least the Wound flares and the resulting dialog have triggered as expected.

The parents' wish is to be let go. There's no mystery here.

@Finckelstein

Ай бұрын

Yeah, what parent wants their child to be in pain forever? If my daughter needed an organ from me, it'd be an all you can eat buffet. But in Shadowheart's case it's even worse, since her dad is an Elf and she's a Half-Elf. He'd outlive Shadowheart and watch her be in pain for all her life before finally digging a grave for his daughter. Yeah, no, gimme that ball of light transformation.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

The mystery is just in the odd way it's coded. Having enough Nightsong Points prevents you from triggering Shadowheart's dialogue about her feelings about Baldur's Gate (and how it smells). And that NSP are ostensibly related to her faith in Shar, but pushing her farther from Shar makes her more likely to obey Shar and angrily kill her parents if she's a Dark Justiciar.

@VoFALT

Ай бұрын

Yes there is and no they don't. They want their daughter back. Being locked up and tortured for 40 years broke their spirits and all hope they had of getting out alive and so are ready to resign themselves to death without for a moment considering that Shadowheart needs her family. It's only until after Shadowheart presses them by reaffirming her wish to save them and have them live does her mom recognize it. They may SAY they want to be let go, but given their state of mind, that's simply not reliable. When someone is in that state, the right thing to do is try to convince them to push on, not indulge their despair.

My Shart killed her parents, and I agree. They are now watching their daughter constantly locking lips with my Tav.

@SlimXG

Ай бұрын

As it should be

My guess would be that this is on purpose. If she stays "dark shart", saving her parents is the harder, and more empathetic choice for her. She can't really change her path at this point (Haven't played dark shart, is it correct?). For "light shart", the harder choice is to kill them, since she wanted to save them all this time, but now their will is to die for her. And it's the last step to be free from shar. So this would make sense to me

@cosmic_drone

20 күн бұрын

I disagree. Her choosing on saving them is the best path for Selunite SH, since 1. she is not doing what Shar wants from her for once 2. she is not embracing loss to avoiding pain (and thus weakening Shar) 3. SH and her parents are actually very happy after being saved.

@colorfulsomething5008

19 күн бұрын

@@cosmic_drone But doesn't she basically sell her soul to shar to save them...? I don't remember the exact wording, but there was a downside. She'll never be completely free of shar. There is no real winning situation for SH, no clear better or worse. That's the whole dilemma.

@cosmic_drone

19 күн бұрын

@@colorfulsomething5008 No, per D&D lore, her soul is not bound to Shar/Shar has no claim over it. Her curse is just the occasional pain (SH writer has confirmed this as well), that by the time of the epilogue has become less frequent.

I think the logic is that Shadowheart can't truly serve either goddess with her parents still alive. Shar is the goddess of loss so Shadowheart must kill her parents to continue as a true devotee of Shar. On the flip side, if her parents live, Shar will always have a hold over Shadowheart via the curse, so Shadowheart isn't free to truly serve Selune (and she'll concentrate on her parents' welfare once they've been freed instead of serving Selune). Only by freeing her parents of their torture and allowing them to become moon wisps for Selune (I forget what the game called them), is Shadowheart free of Shar's curse and her mortal, familial duties - thus able to serve Selune. The Shadowsong points are, therefore, also an indicator of how much Shadowheart is aligning with her divine duty (of facing and [killing || freeing] the Nightsong). If she gets more Nightsong points vs. Parent points, serving a goddess takes precedence over caretaking for her parents.

I don't think pushing Shadowheart away from Shaa= kills her parents is a mistake. Her parents wanted to raise her as a Selunite and her parents asked her to release them. The path towards SH being 'good' is freeing her parents from Shaa's clutches and not damning their daughter to that evil goddess forever. The way she kills her parents "evil" is fully different from when she is "good". As a Selunite they become lights that help those in needs..... following Shaa the seem to die horribly.

There is no mistake in the code my friend, killing her parents, bonds her to either Selune or Shar. Not sacrificing her parents makes her an outlaw, she will live with the pain and the horrible memories but she is reunited with her family. This is probably best ending for her, because she is at peace. Choosing Shar and killing her parents turns her into a pawn, choosing Selune and sending their spirits to the light goddess makes the pain go, but the sadness is there and her life is empty. Devotion requires full sacrifice, in the end it doesn't matter if you have chosen light or darkness. Kedrick Thorn was kind of right about them :)