Speaking generally, when there is so much money to be made through betting, corruption follows - we've seen it in other sports, too, such as cricket. To my mind, it stinks when SkySports and other channels promote betting and then feign indignation when it comes to light, and besides the whole corruption aspect, there are plenty os stories of individuals whose addiction has ruined their lives. And the Government rakes in the betting tax. Spoiling the game.

@claudiushempstead9893

Ай бұрын

Beautifully put. I salute you.

@makeshift112000

Ай бұрын

there's no financial incentive for a footballer to do this though, unlike other sports. They get paid a fortune & their pay isnt even reliant upon winning.

Might just be something more sinister here. Pressured into this. Organised crime . Threats to his family. Who knows what happens in Brazil. Just a thought.

@Steve-K.G.

Ай бұрын

I thought the same with the snooker. Too many involved, all Chinese, so I feel there's something going on there. Two of them were great players and had great careers ahead. Money. Money ruins so much.

@nickgoatham7981

Ай бұрын

My thoughts too. Very few top sportspeople need to become embroiled in these practices for money.

@Davidov1967

Ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking. Who knows

@derelict06

Ай бұрын

Get your tin foil hats out

@user-pe2pt2bs7x

Ай бұрын

Thought the same

In my opinion Paqueta already paid his £50m back when he did that ball roll and threaded through ball to Bowen in the final.

@stopher101

Ай бұрын

The silver lining. Well done my friend

@DC-uf6ve

Ай бұрын

Turn it in.

@akwamarsunzal

Ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@paulsage6851

Ай бұрын

Unfortunately true in our eyes but it didn’t make us that much

@dalesaunders8458

Ай бұрын

A great moment really was, but moving forward having to replace a 50m player will hurt the team and budget going forward with this new westham feeling

Do you think the drop in form in the last few months was because he knew this was coming?

@michaelmcleod3433

Ай бұрын

Makes you wonder don't it

@dannyboyboar6320

Ай бұрын

No doubt,he has looked a shadow of his former self

@jasonmendelli6023

Ай бұрын

Thought the same

@SethBartonSEF

Ай бұрын

Yes.

@markthornemarmaduke

Ай бұрын

Thought the same

Get in a decent LW, play Kudus through the centre and Bowen out right and we look dangerous even without Paquetá. Glass half full moment.

@kevinbarker7915

Ай бұрын

Apart from the fact that we now won't have £80m to buy those players.

@charlieanthony9367

Ай бұрын

And the fact Kudus isn’t a striker

@dapotch

Ай бұрын

Totally agree. Kudus being the CAM could really unlock him. Looking forward to seeing what this coaching staff can come up with without Paqueta. Almost have to treat this like a career-ending injury to the guy and go from there.

@chadhoy

Ай бұрын

@@kevinbarker7915 85*, and I still expect to see WH spend close to 100M this summer. Well in with FFP now and can operate somewhere around 190M at a LOSS this season. That's after ticket revenue, concessions, etc., etc., etc.

Ok, bit of a long post but hope this helps. When the allegations first came up, I spoke to a friend of mine who is a football lawyer and works for several Premier League clubs (not WH). He didn’t know anything about the actual case, but he did tell me how serious the allegations were because spot fixing is a criminal offence (unlike Toney) In his opinion, Paqueta was in big trouble because the FA would not have even bothered investigating unless there was firm evidence. Also Man City would have been aware as we would have been obliged to inform them by laws governing transfers I always knew this would come back to bite us . Ignore the nature of the 4 bookings themselves - these do not constitute evidence even if they look quite damning. You cannot prove somebody has deliberately sought to be booked. Obviously bookmakers have records of strange patterns and would have alerted the FA to this,but this is also inconclusive as you could argue he got booked regularly & the punter was simply lucky I just spoke to my friend again and he believes Paqueta will be found guilty because the person who made the bets in Brazil on his behalf has confessed and they have seen messages on his phone etc. This is quite likely as that person was probably offered a plea bargain deal. In other words, the FA would not have gone ahead and made these charges until Paqueta was grassed up. Its his word v the other guy. But if there is a paper trail this means he will be found guilty. Not only will his football career effectively end, but he could and probably will face arrest in Brazil and possibly here. Sadly we are fucked. we will never get the money from his transfer required to replace him, and we won’t see him play for us again. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

@alldone1116

Ай бұрын

Unless he gets injured in a match surely insurance claim

@dicaniowhu

Ай бұрын

Belmarsh will have a great 5 a side team

@jackcornuto4760

Ай бұрын

@@alldone1116 Best bet is to claim duress and say his family was in danger - we won;t get a penny if he is banned unless we sack him and save contract money, No insurance against this sadly

Remember, these are civil hearings. Therefore, tried/determined on the balance of probability rather than reasonable doubt

@sp4rksmontana486

Ай бұрын

Does this mean the threshold is lower?

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

@@sp4rksmontana486yes. Needs to be probable (ie more than 50% chance), whereas in criminal law it must be beyond reasonable doubt

@pazdylan1873

Ай бұрын

Outrageous if civil balance rather than criminal threshold...something that leads to a career destroying verdict and it's not the criminal threshold?...Totally wrong.

@SethBartonSEF

Ай бұрын

Yes! Made this point over on Reddit. They don't need to prove it absolutely, or beyond reasonable doubt. If they can show that the chances of both patterns of behaviour coinciding would be incredibly unlikely (and with multiple bets and multiple cards they likely are) then he's in big trouble. Seems possible this has been going on for years and he's caught up in something unpleasant. But his absolute denials mean it's likely too late to plead blackmail or extortion.

@ricochet2977

Ай бұрын

Can you go to prison in civil court cases?

If we can’t have him…NO ONE is having him!

@thelittlepikachu8241

Ай бұрын

Bro, your team lost 70 Milions for cannot sell him.

@JustinMurray170fin

Ай бұрын

🤣❤it!

@scottbarnard4659

Ай бұрын

​@@thelittlepikachu8241who cares he might win this and still no one wants him and he stays with us for the rest of he's career.

@thelittlepikachu8241

Ай бұрын

@@scottbarnard4659 He win, your club lose him to City for 70M. He lose, you club lose him for nothing.

@scottbarnard4659

Ай бұрын

@@thelittlepikachu8241 yes but we could keep him for another season and still gain 70 million. And who knows with City 115 charges what is City outcome. He might be innocent and in the end stay at West Ham.

Didn’t granit Xhaka get away with spot fixing ? Ludicrous that paqueta could have brought a Brazilian following and "BETWAY" being on the clubs shirt could give the fellow paqueta island people an idea to dip into betway? Moyes should be investigated for the 70+ goals conceded. Paqueta would have the best legal team around him, surely if they thought they had something on paqueta they’d tell him to plead guilty?

The FA will be aware of whether SUBSTANTIAL bets were placed on Paqueta getting booked in games he didn't get booked, and whether those bets were placed by people connected to him, be it immediately or by proxy. If lots of money was lost on multiple games that he didn't end up getting booked, then he may very likely be innocent and in my view should be given the benefit of the doubt. If large bets were only placed on those four games then it doesn't look good for him.

@grege8318

Ай бұрын

I don't know if I would be super targeted on those 4 games rather than an overall view of the season or whole time in the EPL. It doesn't take much to wind him up, and for all we know someone was dripping poison in his ear on the phone, or had a fight with his wife and he was lashing out. I'm a pretty big perk, and I gaurentee you, it wouldn't take much to wind me up before a game and before the whistle blows, I know I'm getting a card. I'm a kids coach now, and there are certain other coaches that always get me carded because they play dirty.

@StonyStevenson75

29 күн бұрын

@@grege8318 Sure, but the question for me is not the likelihood of him getting booked, it's whether 'substantial' bets were indeed placed on those particular games in which he did get get booked, and secondly if large bets were placed on him getting booked when it transpired that he didn't. I don't know if he's guilty or not, I only know that the FA have enough evidence to suspect him of being guilty. Suppose we just have to wait and see.

@grege8318

29 күн бұрын

I just want to know how they are gonna prove it. He turned in his phone right away, but absent a recording of his calls, or text messages left on the phone like an amateur, just making phone calls isn't enough to do anything. Especially if he's calling half a dozen people a day back home. He can't be responsible for what happens at home if he don't know. The other thing is define substantial bet. 2500 bucks could be life altering in Brazil in a small place, but he makes 20 times that a week, so he could pay off his entire family's debts by Xmas. Unless there's a mob extortion thing going on, and there needs to be something put in place by FIFA about that, especially with more and more mega players coming from poor countries......

@StonyStevenson75

28 күн бұрын

@@grege8318 You answered your own question there - 2500 placed by an average Brazilian would be a substantial amount. It's not Paqueta being accused of placing the bets, but people on Paqueta Island, but where that money is coming from or who exactly is placing the bets is something we're not privvy to, nor are we privvy to what evidence the FA think they have about LC's involvement. I agree that he could just give his money away and be above board, but sure enough, we as outsiders are well outta the loop. If there's mob involvement then that's something that Lucas needs to come clean about because if that's indeed the case, it's something that FIFA along with law enforcement do need to investigate.

@grege8318

28 күн бұрын

@StonyStevenson75 yeah man, 1000% but the FA I'd targeting g him and his immediate family, not just random people on his home island. I a. Super willing to bet there's criminal activity, just not directly tied to him and his. FIFA needs to step in publicly and do something about the threats against players families from gangsters. You would have to be a hell of a player to move half your village to Europe and keep them all alive and cared for without being a superstar, and then there's always another person to chase for money. You never met your grandmother's sister but half your family is begging you to take the dive to save someone that half the family knows and loves. Hard to say no to that. I'm hopeful that we will see him cleared. Certainly didn't seem to be super different this year, so who knows. But FIFA has to do something because no one else is and we r seeing more and more players coming from places where 1 years salary for a first team bench player at city is enough to live forever like a king back home in Ghana or the Ivory coast. Same in South America, and like I said, there's always gonna be a hot button to push to make mobsters money. You see a lot of ex partners extorting players as well. Don't know if that's on players being bigger assholes or people being bigger thieves

this is just how paqueta plays. hes always an aggressive player. Since he isnt fast or has pace he has to use his strength and skill to beat defenders. as a west ham fan this is the passion we want in football. remember that moment he celebrated that corner against chelsea on his knee? bare in mind he is an attacking mid but david moyes put him in a defensive role too since we do not play with possession. Of course the temperature is going to rise high in the game when playing at a high level, let alone without possession for 70-80 mins of the game just running around chasing balls you are going to see angry and aggressive play. And i hear people compare him to alvarez with the amount of bookings he gets in a game too and say well he doesnt make it look like its on purpose? how can you say that when his job that he is comfortable in is that kind of defensive role. he knows how to tackle in midfield and thats what we brought him in to do. in no way at all did we bring paqueta in to become a defensive mid. you see how he plays in brazil... hes a completely different player. he isnt running around chasing balls for 80 minutes of the game. and i must say his defensive play has become amazing at times, but he is a passionate player, some would get confused with the 2 words passionate and hot headed. this is how football used to be and we fans love seeing these tackles. and even his game against England too, he was a dangerous player and thats because he uses his skill to get infront of the ball to win freekicks, or to keep the ball close to lob it over for a counter attack. hes a world class player and is in my opinion being framed.

I didn't realize he came from a small island and all these big bets came directly from there. Defiantly looks dodgy. Was probably helping out some mates back home and has now lost his career over it.

@ricochet2977

Ай бұрын

Nor did I, I’ve just read up about the group of islands, fascinating stuff if you’re interested.

@kevinbarker7915

Ай бұрын

No excuses players know the rules. Enough of them have been banned recently.

@d.b.cooper1

Ай бұрын

Yep deffo this. Probably tryna help out this mates without doing blatant handouts. Awareness is key.

@claudiushempstead9893

Ай бұрын

If this is the case he has acted as a fool and as such his career is over and we should take him to the cleaners, because he has sullied our football club.

Unfortunately I think Paqueta is finished. What a shame and what a waste of a career.

@alldone1116

Ай бұрын

I'm sure somehow Saudi FC can afford it

God that escalates so fast I thought I would be a year or 2 max

@JasperB12

Ай бұрын

For Matchfixing?

Paqueta is toast. There is no way, after over a year, that the F.A. would have charged him if they didn’t have the evidence.

@stephenboyd4934

Ай бұрын

While City evade this type of thing every year

@DC-uf6ve

Ай бұрын

@@stephenboyd4934 city are spot fixing are they? Turn it in grandma

@stephenboyd4934

Ай бұрын

@@DC-uf6ve what City are doing is worse Paqueta was a naughty boy, city are serial killers in comparison.

@davidclerihew3539

Ай бұрын

@@stephenboyd4934 totally different issues. City are accused of making hidden payments & manipulating FFP submissions. Paqueta is accused of taking deliberate bookings to spot fix & defraud bookmakers. One is “lying” (City) & one is “match fixing” (Paqueta).

@Saraband-

Ай бұрын

That is what logic suggests, but i can't even imagine what kind of hard evidence they might have.

Ivan Toney didn't get a year for 1000s of bets against his own team

@LeeAll-vd9yt

Ай бұрын

To win totally different,

@yogihightower

Ай бұрын

Betting on anything football related is wrong but there are levels to this. Betting on an outcome to win is wrong even though that's what players are playing to do. Betting on an outcome to loose is potentially match fixing and spot fixing is getting carded or sent off and makes betters insane odds so is looked at very seriously. This could be career ending and potentially could result in prison time because that is a criminal act.

The FA cannot drop surprises on Paquetta, they have to let him know in advance what evidence they will be presenting. Also if found guilty I doubt it will stop there. This isn’t a legal charge but you can bet (ha) that Paquetta will challenge legally if found guilty. Didn’t City do something similar to EUFA? The FA can convict if they have reasonable suspicion but that isn’t good enough legally. Looking a bit dodgy isn’t enough in a real court where I suspect this will end up.

@ricochet2977

Ай бұрын

Agree, I don’t want Geo as my defence lawyer 😂 the prosecutors have a duty of disclosure, which requires them to provide the defence with all relevant information and evidence that may be helpful, even if it hurts the prosecutor's case and prosecutor must give you a copy of all the relevant evidence against you before the date of your trial. Relevant evidence means anything that you could use to defend.

@grege8318

Ай бұрын

The beautiful thing about City's problems is that it's an FA charge rather than a legal one. All 115 breaches are in FA conduct, not law, so they can not be challenged legally. Paquéta if he is guilty, could face legal trouble. City can't take the FA to court, it's up to the FA to recognize city as a team in the first place. They have every right to throw City out of the FA, and no repercussions. Private organization. (You can tell I hate City). Lol.

I'm presuming Lopetegui would have been well briefed on the Pacqueta situation months in advance if it's true he's been preparing for West ham for ages. And I doubt it's a shock to the club that the FA have charged him. They must've known it was coming. So that said I reckon JLo and club are planning the season already without the player.

@simonmatthews5791

Ай бұрын

I think it would be foolish to plan otherwise, maybe this could be EARTHY time to shine?? ...or is too soon?

Not a surprise? I remember Gonzo talking about the Paqueta investigation last summer!

Paqueta is just another Payet he would fk off to city in a heartbeat,if he’s guilty he owes the club his transfer fee, all this bollox on here about he’s paid his dues to us with 1 pass , or he’s under the influence of a crime family to get bookings, I’ve supported this club 45 years and some of our fan base are turning into sympathetic melts

We are cattle trucked. Those bookings were well iffy and the people placing the bets were on the island where he is from… A spade is a spade. I remember at least one if not more of those bookings caused Moyes to substitute him out of the game, totally weakening the team on the day… No, sorry he gets absolutely no support from me…

There is no chance that west ham haven't planned for all eventualities regarding this matter.

For several months I have indicated my personal opinion in various discussions that, for me and solely in my opinion, something was not quite right with some of West Ham's performances this season. Even the results pattern, especially for the second half of the season, should be questioned in my opinion. If a player is proved to be a bad apple, and IMHO the FA will need to find out where, and to whom, the payments/benefits were made, I would be very surprised if he is the only one in the barrel. I would be even more surprised if none of his teammates did not realize something was going on? Add to that the alleged involvement of (of all people) West Ham's major sponsor Betway and this could blow up into one of the biggest scandals in British football history.

I think if found guilty the FA will throw the book at him....... He will be hit to the maximum to show that this is what's going to happen to anyone who does this in the future. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that this will be the end of his career.

It should be remembered that Paqueta is not his surname, as we understand them. In many cultures when individuals leave their community they adopt the name of their town as a surname.

Anyone know how long before the trial?

Gonzo -you are resembling Duke Caboom from Toy Story 4 😅

@dicaniowhu

Ай бұрын

😂 👏

Well put lads

When do we get the verdict?

Do you think any players might be aware on inside

The funny thing is,when the fa were looking into charging paqueta,the 4 bookings they are looking at was after they said charges could be made.

Doesn’t look too good for sponsor Betway either, club should reconsider if they still want them on the strip.

I believe FA has a high and difficult burden of proof to meet, as it's subjectively assessed. We'll see!

Thought! We've been told that Paqueta is facing charges upon 4 specific games where bets were placed upon him receiving a yellow card but what we have not seen is whether bets were also placed upon him receiving a card in games where he was not cautioned! Have Betway (or the FA) released this information at all? The answer to this question could be decisive as in, if bets were only placed upon games where he was cautioned, then power to the prosecution but if bets were placed on games where he was not cautioned then the power clearly swings in Paqueta's favour! ... Wouldn't you agree?

Even as a neutral i remember seeing him get booked pointlessly a few times this season. Pretty obviously guilty it just depends will he be caught

Taking into account that the FA could take away this man’s livelihood I think Paqueta’s legal team will mire the FA in legal arguments for a long, long time. He will be starting for us in the first game of the season !!!

If it is true, then he may not have been banned for the Leverkusen game and things may have turned out differently… which in my eyes is unforgivable.

Pure greed I’m afraid isn’t 100k + a week enough for someone who’s come from nothing.

@jimmyburch87

Ай бұрын

I agree, however it looks like it’s for his friends rather than himself. Probably had a what’s app group with his pals and told them all to back him to get booked to earn them some wonga.

@gc9017

Ай бұрын

@@jimmyburch87 I get you but this is the premier league and West Ham not a back street team in Brazil where it probably goes on every week, I’ve watched the videos now and it looks well dodgy.

Gut feeling is he is guilty, we can just hope they can’t prove it and we can sell him and wash our hands of him. We could try and sue him if guilty but we won’t get close to the £85m we could have got for him. What a terrible way to potentially destroy a career and legacy.

How do we approach the transfer window now. Shit storm.

West Ham will have no choice and sue Paqueta if he’s found guilty

The FA must have something on him.i hope his clean but we wish him well. After 9 months its clear they have something on him

It’s good that it’s now that this is happening and not nearer the end of the transfer window. We can plan our transfers without him. I personally hope he isn’t guilty and we can offload him to some other club.

I'm oddly ambivalent. I think Paqueta has been good in patches, but also an embarrassment in greater patches (diving, nasty fouls, laziness etc).

If found guilty he will never play again the ban would be very long 6 plus years

This will be on balance of probabilities as it is a civil matter, not beyond reasonable doubt (criminal matter). Essentially there needs to be more than a 50% chance. Liability is easier to establish than guilt. Will these “coincidences” be enough? No idea

@SuperALBSURE

Ай бұрын

It’s a civil case but then the outcome becomes an actual crime right? And there is a 10 yr ban at stake. This goes to appeal for me regardless of the outcome. It has to be pretty water tight for you to ruin a career.

@robertbryant1735

Ай бұрын

So are Man City’s charges civil or criminal coz if that’s the case then Man City will become extinct when they are found guilty ….💁‍♂️

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

@@SuperALBSURE Criminal would be a separate matter - it could be possible that someone is found liable under civil law but not guilty under criminal law, even in the same incident, as they have different standards of proof. So e.g. FA may have enough proof here but CPS may not

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

@@robertbryant1735 difficult really, I think there’s is a bit of both. FA have their own rules and I believe some of the charges relate to fraud, which would be criminal

Something else to think about that I’m not sure has been highlighted is the possible outcome of our season and results as some of he’s tackles that were yellow could of easily been red which could of got him match bans which would of impacted our league position which spring to mind don’t bite the hand that feeds you, cheating us fans and the club 😡⚒️⚒️⚒️

The max you can bet as a new customer is 200 pounds. Looking at that and working out how many people live on the island, the earnings from this would be minimal. Maybe 100,000 if two hundred people bet on him to get booked. The sums don't add up.

I feel the threat of the legal action may well have forced the FA to kick the investigation into the long grass and batted off to an independant panel to make the decision, can see this dragging on for a long time, if Paqueta is found guilty, unless the evidence is so cast iron there's no refuting it, can see this ending up in court with the Sport of Arbitration

I do think if found guilty, and there was a ban. The club would be in a position to sue Lucas for breach of contract. I do hope it's not true, but it's looking more likely. I remember Mutu for Chelsea was found guilty of drugs etc, Chelsea sued him for breach of contract.

the real proof of evidence will be in the betting patterns on him getting a yellow. Large bets from his home town/island only made on those four occasions when he received the yellow cars mean he is guilty. Regular large bets on him getting a yellow which he then didn't receive a yellow card would indicate he isn't guilty. He cant stop people from his home town/island from placing bets on him. He is a hot headed player that often will make heavy reckless tackles. Look at Alvarez...he does the same, he is a physical type player. So if people in Tlalnepantla, Mexico (Alvarez home town) place bets on him getting a yellow and he does then does that make Alvarez guilty of spot fixing? Of course it doesn't. Difficult to prove whether any of Paquetas yellow cards were intentional or just rash but where the FA can prove guilt is if there are large bets placed on those games and just on those games...

I always bet on certain players to get bookings. Also bet on players personally know to get a goal etc.

@liambrammall1764

Ай бұрын

How often do you win?

been telling u guys earthy is & will be a legend. trust me. my son has played with him for years!

Without sounding biased….. it shouldn’t take this long for charges to be brought on circumstantial evidence.

A storm in a tea cup. It will blow over and he could well be at West Ham for at least another season while the thing goes through its process, which would be good news for the fans.

May be I'm just clutching at straws, but it seems to me that if there was strong evidence against Pacqueta these charges would have been brought long ago, not just after his people had started to show impatience with the length of the delay to making a decision. That may be just a coincidence of course, but it could mean that they don't really have a case. Even if he is guilty it is difficult to imagine what evidence they might have, short of a betting sling in his handwriting or phone records linking him to the people who had placed the suspicious bets. Only time will tell; let's hope it's not too much time.

I wonder if they paid out the bets?

So Gonzo, Can I get your closing words and all important prediction please.. .is he guilty???

Didn't the investigation start before the last allegations in games actually occurred??

Might be a blessing. Good chance to get the young lads rolling. If paqueta is that dodgy, we don't want him at the club. Innocent until proven guilty though. I thought losing 40 quid on the slots today was bad.

@zanussidish5685

Ай бұрын

Find it hard to find a positive considering we were expecting him to be gone in the summer anyway and have £85m in the kitty.

@Anonymous-is2qb

Ай бұрын

@@zanussidish5685 I honestly think Lopetegui and Tim are going to bring the best out of our club no matter what the team sheet says.

@zanussidish5685

Ай бұрын

@@Anonymous-is2qb I agree but not knowing whether you have the money or the player isn't a positive.

@Anonymous-is2qb

Ай бұрын

@@zanussidish5685 yeah interesting couple of weeks ahead. Backs against the walls mould great people though.

These stupid bets on yellow cards and similar should be scrapped, it's pathetic.

@SethBartonSEF

Ай бұрын

Agreed. Spot fixing could be wiped out if they prevented these spurious bets on stupid things, particularly those that can be affected by a single player.

@davidwebster5946

Ай бұрын

..or players can stop trying to commit fraud?

@garino881

Ай бұрын

Said the same. Only way to stop it. In fact, go one step further and ban betting in football altogether, but they won't cos as we know football is only interested in the £

@davidwebster5946

Ай бұрын

@@garino881 so you ban the entire betting industry from betting on sport because 1 player out of thousands tried to commit fraud and failed?

@DC-uf6ve

Ай бұрын

I wish I could bet on the number of poor takes on a given subject after each video. Money printer.

Thought lopa 's interview was positive especially with steiten but this is bollox not the start of things we need

Hopefully it will drag in City think it's will be dandy and they end up losing points along with other 115 charges... Pep doesn't want to be for any of it.

West Ham; never boring except on the pitch!

@liambrammall1764

Ай бұрын

Ahahah RIP Moyesaurus

Can we not sue him for loss of transfer fee ??

@dannyboyboar6320

Ай бұрын

If he is found guilty we can sue him for contract breaches

@stephenboyd4934

Ай бұрын

No as that's pie in the sky but his contact is a different puppy. He abused his connection with the club & his contract. But saying this the FA are as bent as a ten bob note, just look at the way City are treated compared too other clubs.

@Gma2021

Ай бұрын

Even if we could he’s not gonna have 50 million quid spare is he. Especially if he can’t work for 10 years.

I don't know how you can connect getting a card with fixing the results of a game when so many cards are given out on a regular basis week in week out And bet was when he will get a yellow card that not match fixing Is bettin West Ham to lose and he miss a sitter or scores an own goal you could push getting sent off but not picking up a yellow card

@yogihightower

Ай бұрын

Its very easy because they look at betting patterns by time, amount and location and if there is a spike in betting compared to usual in a certain location, certain time and the amount people are betting then the connections from players to that area or group will be looked at, you can't hide your online footprint very well from authorities in this day and age.

My guess is the FA don’t have actual evidence that connects him. The case was brought because of the deadline and they are hoping that a trial exposes him rather than they have concrete evidence. If they had actual evidence they would have brought it to Paquetas team a while ago and they would have pleaded guiltily to try and get a shorter ban. Just like Toney and Tonali. I think the FA need to be seen to prosecute in order to make sure people don’t try this. So I’m not surprised they go through anyway. I don’t think any of this will stick even if he did do it because it’s actually a crime not some civil matter. So proof has to be water tight (or he admits it).

@SethBartonSEF

Ай бұрын

He can be sanctioned on civil law (with lower burden of proof) and fined/banned. And then separately fail to be made guilty on criminal law. The two verdicts don't have to match. Most famously see OJ Simpson, innocent of murder at criminal trial but then responsible in civil court and fined $34m. Yes, it's America but the principle is the same in the UK.

@SuperALBSURE

Ай бұрын

@@SethBartonSEF yes. Say he gets banned and loses his career for 10 yrs. if the two cases don’t match we are saying a man is guilty of criminal behaviour but not tried in a criminal court? The CPS would have to prosecute as a crime has happened. At which point the FA would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did this. If they lose that then he can go back to court and ask for the FA to overturn their ban and pay damages. They actually need evidence or a confession or it’s a no go in the long run. This can’t be an internal matter for the fa and just some breaching of rules that they have. At the end of the day this is an actual crime and will be dealt with as such.

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

@@SuperALBSURE No, we would not be saying he is guilty of criminal behaviour. He would be liable under civil law and the punishment (10 year ban) would be civil, not criminal. Civil law and criminal law are 2 separate things - it is entirely possible for a person to be liable under civil law but not criminal law. Winning in a criminal case does not overturn the civil law decision

@SuperALBSURE

Ай бұрын

@@jamesgunn7 I just don’t understand how the FA are saying something illegal has happened which is a crime and yet not refer it to a criminal court? There’s one thing to bring a civil claim over a business dispute but this is actually a crime they are talking about here. It doesn’t make much sense to me at all.

How many times do we read that the CPS (different organisation I know) have dropped charges against X, Y, or Z, due to lack of evidence or other reasons, after initially charging the person(s). That’s my hope here, but, as you’ve said Geo, 4 coincidences including that booking vs Bournemouth, doesn’t bode well. All we can hope is that he gets a fair hearing and whatever the outcome, it’s just and right.

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

True, but standard of proof required by CPS and standard of proof in civil matters are totally different - a lot easier to prove liability in civil law than prove guilt in criminal law

@bangkokney8708

Ай бұрын

@@jamesgunn7 I agree totally. Given the 4 games under scrutiny that have been made public, and the fact that on a small island off Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, people have allegedly opened accounts with a gambling company, and placed bets on what, on the face of it, was a dead cert IF, and I stress IF, a certain WHU player was/is involved. It would take a huge leap of faith not to consider the evidence, albeit possibly circumstantial, damning. What would help his case is if he has co-operated with the FA and given up his phone records and any other documents requested. But they'd only help if they didn't incriminate him obviously. An interesting few days and weeks ahead.

@liambrammall1764

Ай бұрын

IF ?

Football clubs have to have liability insurance for player misconduct although to what extent player misconduct is covered, I don't know - definitely conduct of the player on the pitch...may be worth you boys finding a sports lawyer who'd be willing to comment?

If he is found guilty, what happens to the club and the contract?

A bookmaker loses some money. Doesn't like it, contacts the FA to complain. Do bookmakers go to the FA every time they lose money. One of the bookings wasn't even a booking, is the referee in on it too. There have been similar allegations over the years that have come to nothing.

Can he play now he has been charged with this or is he out for the start of the season??

Even watching the games where he got booked I thought he got the cards on purpose, what a waste and what a financial loss for the club.

I am surprised Alvarez hasn't been investigated on yellow cards.... As i'm sure a few hammers supporters have won a few quid on him

if he is guilty that's it , no doubt whu thru d.o.f has done a series of scenarios and probability risk factor and have plans in place.

Lets hope that Steidten does intensive due diligence on any potential future signing. I wouldn't sign (and Man Utd take note) any player who has any kind of criminal conviction however minor ( I'd make an exception for Big Dunc!) who comes with an "entourage", has his dad and ten brothers representing him, has a known dodgy agent, ridiculous coloured hair, has a stroppy partner, has several kids by several different women (not a crime but for me indicates a feckless attitude) is often late for bus, airport, training, wants his own clothing line before he has even won anything (Jesse Lingard anyone?). Have I missed anything? No I'm not Roy Keane in disguise.

@snorkz455

Ай бұрын

Tim for the win

...but he passed the Moyes MoT!!!

Gonzo and Geo, you need to consider all yellow cards given to players in other teams, for comparison purposes, and how many of these were incurred unnecessarily. It is always easy to find something adrift. How many times, after excessive delays, have VAR reviewed many issues leading to a goal, to possibly discover some erroneous action somewhere in the build up. This is not saying he is definitely innocent, but rather commenting that investigating in depth, can always find some fault. Innocent until properly proved guilty by actual hard evidence, and not mere conjecture.

Wonder what FA action would have been taken, had transfer to Man City gone through. Always easier to attack those in less defensive positions. Even if guilty, which is currently debatable, a yellow card does not fix the game result, it could only result in a betting yellow card issue, unless Paqueta actually got sent off. Surely given Paqueta earnings, and even greater potential earnings at Man City, how can he personally sensibly benefit from others betting, where the rewards, by comparison, are insignificant. Time to use common sense FA.

Lads, who is coming to Tampa?

The charges will be dropped on transfer deadline day só he never went to City as they have over 100 charges against them

@GermanChickenwing

Ай бұрын

I wonder how you come out with such bs..

It can 'look a bit suspicious' all it wants. Prove it!

Ted lasso new series material oh what fun to be at hammer it.. 😂

Let's wait till the verdict before we are writing he's obiterty

Think Bradley Wood got a 6 year ban for deliberately getting booked twice??

What's happening to the guy in Spain has he been charged aswell

Too many coincidences for me; why it has taken 9 months to compile a case is a mystery but his agents poked the tiger and the tiger was not going to back down; they may live to regret that if the FA were hesitating.

If he's found guilty and banned , would the club attempt to sue him for loss of earnings?

I guess Loppy will be off if he 100 mill.he was promised is not there.Pity we didn’t get Potch.

My eyesight is getting worse at my age. How much are these West Ham spectacles going for?

To be fair though, would you say that overall Paqueta's tackles/trying to get intentional yellow cards have been much worse than Alvarez's? I would argue Alvarez's have been worse; at times it seemed he really wanted a yellow card

@kevinbarker7915

Ай бұрын

That's the way Alvarez plays. He's always been reckless for club and country.

@drawde5762

Ай бұрын

@@kevinbarker7915 yeh but I mean for Paqueta judging him purely based of his footage isnt enough as others do similar tackles. They will need some sort of paper trail (messages etc) connecting Paqueta to the people in Brazil making the bets

@thenightcreeper

Ай бұрын

@@drawde5762 I get what your saying, but Alvarez didn't have 4 huge bets come in from Alvarez island in Mexico the exact games when he got booked, Paqueta was hacking 2 or 3 players down in a rampage or deliberately handballing from a goal kick to get his yellows, they were beyond ridiculous, it depends when the bets came in too, if they were in play bets for Paqueta to get booked placed after the 90th minute and that's when the money went on (at much higher odds because there's no time left to get booked) and the handball was in the 93rd minute and Paqueta spent all of stoppage time trying to get booked, it makes the case much more indefensible. The likelihood of these bets being a coincidence...4 separate times must be 6 million to 1 and in a civil case they don't need a paper trail they just need it to be more likely than unlikely to have happened. It will be put to Paqueta to explain how people on Paqueta island that may well be his friends, family or known contacts (we don't know but they will have found out by now), how come they are the only people in the world winning huge money on him getting carded with huge amounts going on him to be carded with (possibly) in play bets just before he got carded in a ridiculous way....4 separate times, all from Paqueta Island. Our only hope is if our legal team can find a loophole, like someone's life was in danger or they find out if there were also huge bets that lost from Paqueta Island so then we can argue that the probability of our highest tackling player getting carded in 4 games when there were bets in lots of games isn't so improbable. Lets be real here, the only way these highly unlikely large bets from Paqueta Island combined with his highly questionable yellow cards could happen so regularly possibly with 100% success (that is key, so something they will look at) + if they were laid in play just before the bookings occurred (that is key too) is with inside information and only 1 person in the world could give them that information. There doesn't need to be a paper trail, they will just argue he could've told them in person or went through a 3rd party to pass on the information, if statistically they come to the conclusion the likelihood of it all being a coincidence is 8 billion to 1 then he is done We will have to hope the bets were not placed in play immediately before the bookings happened and that there were some losing bets too, the more losing bets the better, add that to his nature (temperamental, most tackles = most likely to get a card), hope they found no paper trail and no witnesses, then maybe we could argue people who knew Paqueta best might be able to make money from him getting booked because they know him best, BUT if the FA have gone back to 2022 and have been investigating for 9 month something tells me they know something more than we do that points to him being guilty

If he did do it he's a complete tool. The man's a multi millionaire so if he wanted to help his friends financially he could have easily given them some money

The yellow in europe? Hes a loose cannon sometimes.

He would have to be provided with the evidence in advance under natural justice, not now maybe but in advance for sure

Hope he isnt found guilty. Shames me to think that a 5 mill a year player would get involved in gambling on their career sport and then GF they .lose that. career or most of their future in it. I remember a yellow card this season , but I thought the ref was being hard on paqueta as he had been antagonised by the opposing player , don't tell me the player and the ref were linked to the unproven so far , bet.

@alldone1116

Ай бұрын

They never change do they...

@ellisrochlin2267

Ай бұрын

@@alldone1116 his a absolute major in the team if he was on the move out of wanting CL football he would have fetched 50 mill minimum . If he gets banned , he football wise will be on ice for seasons . Hammers board must be fuming as if he gets banned he has a transfer value of 0 zilch , nada .

My personal opinion is that he is guilty as hell. The FA must have enough evidence to have charged him in the first place. Career ending. Silly boy. I presume if he is found guilty West Ham will sack him for gross misconduct?

I don't know if Paqueta is guilty or not but what are these footballers thinking when they get involved in these betting scandals. Players like Ivan Toney are multi-millionaires, why risk all of that to try and make a bit more by betting. If he is found guilty then it is a huge blow for the club. Whatever the outcome he owes the club and the fans for standing by him, instead of trying to get out the door to join City on a mega money deal.

I cannot see how he can be found guilty on circumstantial evidence only. I believe the only evidence that can convict him is with undisputable proof he told one of the people that gambled on him picking up a, yellow or anyone associated with that person. I'm just wondering if they believe he did it and ends up in a kind of plea bargain. I just can't seeing him being found guilty in this basis providing he gets a fair hearing....If he's FOUND not guilty the FA coukd face lawsuits, from Paqueta, West Ham and Man City.... As far as West Ham, we've got time to make a plan B. Kudus could drop into Paqueta place. Then recruit carefully so we are covered with or without Paqueta. .

@jamesgunn7

Ай бұрын

You don’t need indisputable proof in civil matters. The FA need to establish on balance of probabilities that charges are true - that’s it.

@pazdylan1873

Ай бұрын

I just hope the FA move is a face saver and they will back down...any idea about whenn hearing would be?

@johnexpatthailand2142

Ай бұрын

@@jamesgunn7 Thanks for that. I didn't know. Well done. But that's still a very grey area in my opinion. How can anyone tell what is balance of probability as opposed to coincidences with this case. A man's footballing career depends on this. For example if me and my family each bet 5k on Alvarez to receive a yellow card every game abd we win the vet. Will Alvarez be investigated. With Paqueta he's, always likely to pick up a yellow card so my point is that's it's not totally alien to the way he plays. I just hope he gets, a fair hearing and West Ham don't get damaged in the process.

Its okay for the FA to ban a non league player for 10 years, who can't afford world class legal representation, who no one really knows. And then a world class player who plays for Brazil, who can afford to pay for the best legal representation. Paqueta will not get a 10 year ban. It doesn't look good no doubt. He could still get a year ban, but it won't be 10 years. And if the people in Brazil betted "substantial sums" where did the money come from to place the bets? I thought the whole idea of placing the bets was to help these people out financially as they don't have a lot of money. Did Paqueta give them the money to place the bets?

I just can't fathom why on earth paqueta would do such things - he i s a multi millionaire, he has got so much money he will not be able to spend it all in his lifetime - why? It makes a little more sense with tonali and toney as they had gambling addictions, but this is so strange - almost to the point where you would think paqueta was bribed into it - why else would he risk his career over this?

@liambrammall1764

Ай бұрын

At risk of sounding mean, latinos be like that.

@liambrammall1764

Ай бұрын

In that, they grow up and live in a world where corruption is rife, inequality is rife, people who bend the rules never seem to be held to account and ‘the rules’ themselves are seen more as minor inconveniences to circumnavigate than things to obey. Which isn’t a bad thing. If I grew up in a world like that, I’d probably do the same.

@11East

Ай бұрын

I doubt he made any money from it himself. Probably done it to help out friends/family.