I’m Ethiopian Orthodox, and how the Coptic fathers are always at the forefront defending our faith with humility and Christ-like love and respect is just so amazing! Copts>>>>>

@yenenehw

7 күн бұрын

Naaa!! It appears that you're either being dishonest or have limited knowledge about the principles of defending one's faith. The young priest, who has a lighter skin tone, referred to the EO Church as "our family" and claimed that both the OO and EO churches are guided by the same Spirit. This statement is misleading and leads the OO faithful into error - the entire EO consider us heretics, so tell me, how on earth are we the same family? *_Essentially, the OO priest is acknowledging and subtly defending the EO - It is like a chicken defending KFC._* Additionally, the slim priest considers the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church (EOTC) as a diversity, seemingly implying that the EOTC differs from the Coptic OO Church in a manner similar to the EO. I'm outraged by such statement, the EOTC is not a diversity, it is in the same family of Churches with the other OO churches. Furthermore, when questioned about the distinctions b/n the OO and EO traditions, all members of the panel displayed a lack of conviction and resorted to evasive responses. *_Such a lack of faith and feeble behavior only serves to strengthen the EO's misconceptions, leading them to openly and consistently hammer the entire OO family as heretics._* The reality is that, the OO and EO Churches are fundamentally distinct, and given the significant Christological differences, achieving unity between the two is impossible. The Coptic OO's approach to seeking ecumenism with the EO and Roman Catholic Church is concerning, as it ultimately lead to a denial of our Church Fathers' teachings and a compromise of our established dogma, potentially resulting in a fracturing of our faith. FYI - I'm a proud Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido faithful and since my childhood, our revered saintly monks have instilled in me the belief that Leo of Rome is a heretic - it is disheartening to observe that none of the OO priests in this panel had the courage to address this issue, while rightfully criticizing Eutychus as a heretic on multiple occasions.

@junicornplays980

5 күн бұрын

​@@yenenehw I'd rather trust the priest on this than a random KZread comment.

I’m Catholic and the I really really like the how Miaphysitism approaches the unity of Christ’s Divine and Human Natures and it seems to be a better way of articulating things

@Metascetic

7 күн бұрын

Of course you like it. Because you’re already a heretic lol

Greatings from Malankara ( Indian) Orthodox Syrian Church to our brothers Coptic Orthodox Church and all other oriental Orthodox Churches as well as Eastern (Byzantine) Orthodox Churches May Holy Spirit help us to be in communion with each other.

Big thanks to Coptic Orthodox Answers for inviting me to participate in this dialogue. I’m grateful for the friendship we all share and the work that our Lord has called each of us to do. I pray that the dialogue on here would remain charitable, as we all seek to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

@franthonymourad5870

19 күн бұрын

@frmichaelsorial Thank you for joining us for such an important discussion. I am looking forward to future collaborations!

@KonstantinosPhillippikos

17 күн бұрын

Love you and support you Fr Michael Χριστὸς Aνέστη ☦

@georgevarghese4189

14 күн бұрын

Amen!

As an Eastern Orthodox, I pray for unity.

We are standing on the shoulders of pillars The batton of our faith was passed from Christ, taught by the apostles, and held by our ancestors. These pillars carried the gem of the faith. The diamond of our salvation. St. Mark was dragged through the streets for us. Thousands of our ancestors killed by Decius and Diocletian. The saying was that the blood of our ancestors was up to knees of the horses. Numerous patriarchs living a very poor life of continuous exile rather than renounce the faith. Coptic Pope St. Athanasius the Apostolic who was exiled 5 times and continuously persecuted by the Arians. Coptic Popes St Cyril and St Dioscorus choosing a life of being constantly slandered and not caring about anything except preserving the only faith that reunites us with God. Surrender to Satan was not an option. Pope St Theodosius I who Justinian tried tempting to renounce the nonchalcedonian faith. The emperor was going to make him governor over all of Egypt and Africa. St. Theodosius responded that Satan tried something similar with the Lord. Not gonna happen. St. Pope Theodosius was exiled. The emperor sent a fake patriarch who was also a general who killed 200,000 copts. We stand on their shoulders. Centuries of persecution under Islam where our ancestors chose to die or pay the jizya rather than denounce their creator. Not to mention all the shoulders we stand on of our parents and grandparents who established the churches we are now in. Let us not even dare to make their sacrifices cheap. In the liturgy we say “As it was and shall be….” Shame on us if we cause our descendants to squander this gem (our eternal life) that was handed to us on a silver platter. The gem in our hands is the Lord our God, covered in the blood and sweat of our ancestors. Coptic, Syrian, Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Malankaran, human.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

Beautifully said, dear brother. The best way to honor our ancestors is to remain faithful and to uncover the beauty and the wealth of our Oriental Orthodox faith! God bless you

@yenenehw

7 күн бұрын

Thanks a lot, you made my day, my brother! It is deeply upsetting when the EO, who consistently label us as heretics, are referred to as "our family" and claimed to be guided by the same Spirit as our own church - the priests participating in the panel were behaving like a chicken defending KFC. Moreover, here in the USA, Caucasian politicians who are a touch racist often try to appear all-embracing and use terms like diversity, inclusion, and minority to describe African Americans, including individuals of African descent like myself. So, for this Coptic OO priest to refer to my cherished Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church (EOTC) as a diversity infuriated me. I aint born yesterday, I got the ability to read b/n the lines, and it is evident to me that the priest employed the term "diversity" when referring to the EOTC as a means of appeasing the EO Church. The EOTC is not a diversity; it is an OO church. I would willingly face a million deaths rather than deny even the slightest aspect of the teachings of St. Cyril, St. Dioscorus and St. Severus to accommodate the EO.

EO here, but this conversation opened my eyes quite a bit to the failure of some of the simplistic EO polemical stances as well as the other side of EO who are actually working towards communion. I’ve grown in my respect for OO as a result, thank you.

@CarolineJoyAmico

10 күн бұрын

@@orthochap9124 same. My journey started a few years ago, but this video was a nice icing. I feel exactly as you said. In fact, I'm Coptic now.

Thank you, dear Fathers, for making a defense of our Faith. May the Light be shown to all who seek it in honesty and truth, through our holy saints Saweris, Dioscoros, Gregory of Tatev, Elijah of Antioch, Barsauma, Theodora, and those who fought for the True Orthodox Faith.

@SmilingCamperVan-fn4em

19 күн бұрын

I'm interested in orthodoxy i don't know where to start..

@MinaDKSBMSB

19 күн бұрын

​@@SmilingCamperVan-fn4em consider visiting a church near you or reach out to a priest. Dont hesitate. Is there something in particular you are looking for?

@Aprilfool1982

19 күн бұрын

@@SmilingCamperVan-fn4em where are you based? Start by reaching out to the closest parish

@sakogekchyan7366

18 күн бұрын

I'm glad you mentioned Gregory. I often feel like we are minions don't get as much attention as our Coptic and Ethiopian brethren when it comes to these discussions.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

@dioscorus Thank you for your support. Rest assured there is a lot more to cover on this important subject. For those who don't know, Dioscorus and others have covered this subject at length on @TheLionsDen. Excellent work is being don't there

As an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian, I was initially furious about what Fr. John Mahfouz said regarding the Oriental Orthodox churches. However, after watching this, I was reminded to be humble and to let go of feelings of hatred towards those who mistreat you, whether intentionally or unintentionally. I appreciate that you approach this not from a place of trying to disprove the other side, but with a spirit of understanding. It becomes an act of pride, not one guided by the Holy Spirit, when we intentionally speak falsehoods about one another. Thank you!

@lyralong

7 күн бұрын

Pray for God to release him from this rigorism and hate really. Pray pride is broken…

It's out! full 2-hour response to a video stating that the Oriental Orthodox are neither Orthodox, nor are they part of the Church...and that we need to repent! Enjoy the discussion between the 4 panelists and see for yourselves whether or not such accusations are true.

@sfappetrupavelandrei

15 күн бұрын

I think that your interpretation regarding what fr. John Mahfouz said in that video, is not the best. There are 2 views about the Church: one is the one mentioned by fr. John which it states that there is only one Church or the so called theory of branches. The same way fr. John says that the (Eastern) Orthodox Church is the only Church, a catholic may say that the Catholic Church is the only Church. The idea behind it, it is that there is only one truth and the Holy Spirit takes care of the Church in preserving that truth. So as long as we don't share the same dogmatic view, we either accept that there are more than one truth or that the Holy Spirit doesn't really care about the Church having the correct dogmatic view. And there are differences. Even if you claim that you have the same view regarding the natures of Christ, from what I understand from Copts writing in comments on that video with Fr. John, there are differences regarding Christ having one or 2 wills. So there is still dogmatic differences. Am I mistaken? From my understanding you believe that Christ had one will while we (EO) believe that Christ preserved both His divine will and His human will as it happened with His natures. Now the fact that a lot of these denominations claim to have miracles and saints through which the Holy Spirit works, it is something which we, humans, don't have a solution for it. We will probably understand everything at the end of times. I can have a lot of respect and appreciation for a Catholic or Oriental Orthodox without accepting their dogmas. I don't know what happens in other denominations but what I know is that here (in the Eastern Orthodox Church) it is Christ and this is the only path for me to follow Christ.

I am a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, which is a part of the Oriental Orthodox communion. This podcast is one of my favorites, and I really enjoy listening to it. I feel empathy for the concerns expressed by the father from the Eastern Orthodox tradition. Despite our theological differences, both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox traditions have a rich history of producing saints and guiding us on how to lead godly lives in this world. It's important to focus on our commonalities in order to protect our followers from the influences of the world. I am eager to hear more from this team, and I suggest that they consider featuring theologians from other Oriental Orthodox traditions, such as Ethiopian, Syrian, Indian, Armenian, and Eritrean, depending on the topic being discussed.

@yenenehw

7 күн бұрын

You feel empathy towards the EO Church who labels all the OO churches, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church (EOTC), as heretics? Bizarre!!! They condemn St. Dioscorus, St. Phlixonues, St. Severus and our Miaphysite Christology in their daily mass - do you understand the weight of the accusation? So tell us Mr. empathy, should we, then, abandon a portion of our Christology and our fathers to appease the EO? They totally reject our Christology and they consistently label us as heretics, so why is that the Coptic OO side endlessly pleads with them for unity, putting us in embarrassing situations that suggest a lack of faith and confidence? As you're aligned with these Coptic OO priests, you may respond on their behalf. If you have spent some time in our monasteries, you must be aware of the unwavering conviction held by our holy monks and their critical perspective on the Christology of the EO Church. We should demonstrate self-respect and faith in our Christology and in our dear fathers. We should humbly and respectfully distance ourselves from them but hammer them hard when they overstep boundaries.

I am from ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH please continue such podcasts

Fathers,your discussion was wonderful and constructive. After saying this,I also fill the pain when Fr John compare orthodox church to Mormons.I wish he personally and Eastern Orthodox as a church study our christology in detail as some scholars do and stop accusing us Monophysite. We are Miaphysit.A brother from Ethiopian orthodox Tewahdo church.

@hayatkatrib4378

15 күн бұрын

Thank you fathers for this friendly conversation. We need more of this and we need all of us to pray together to the guidance of the Holy Spirit with love and humbleness. For our leaders who are afraid of being crucified with Christ, if you really believe in the judgment of the second coming of Christ , what will be your defense at that moment. Part of my daily prayer I pray for the unity of all Christians , Orthodox, Catholics, and all versions of Protestants , I felt deeply injured by the apparent division of Orthodoxy although I knew about it from before, but didn’t realize that it is hurting to this extent. Please fathers continue your discussions with hearts full of the love of Christ and with the humbleness that He directed us to be and show.

As an Ethiopian orthodox Christian , thank you for defending our faith my coptic fathers.

Amazing work Abounas!!, May the Holy Church of God continue bearing good fruits!!

I love Egyptian Christians only cause they suffered the same islamic invation we Greek suffered too the arabs tried to destroy Coptics the same way Turks tried to destroy Greeks but they both failed cause our only lord JesusChrist never leave us alone ☦

@CyrilMatthai-jr8lw

17 күн бұрын

The Turks tried to destroy the Copts, the Ethiopians, and Armenians too.

@juarbemike77

15 күн бұрын

In 711, the Muslim Umayyad Caliphate invaded the Iberian Peninsula, initiating centuries of Muslim rule in Spain. During this period, Muslims sought to establish their dominance and spread Islam, leading to conflicts with the Christian kingdoms in northern Spain. The reconquista, a gradual process of Christian reconquest, began in the 8th century and continued for over seven centuries. In 1492, the Catholic Monarchs, Queen Isabella I of Castile and King Ferdinand II of Aragon, completed the reconquista with the conquest of the Nasrid Kingdom of Granada, marking the end of Muslim rule in Spain. The reconquista had a profound impact on Spanish history, shaping its religious, cultural, and political landscape.

@nenem.5165

14 күн бұрын

@@CyrilMatthai-jr8lwalso Assyrians

Thank you COA for this work! I pray this response reaches those who struggle to see us as who we really are.

God Bless ! Starting to Listen. When Fr. John Mahfouz says the Coptic Church is not the Church, He includes each of us the Non- Chalcedonian commune from the Malankara (Indian) Orthodox , Armenian , Ethiopian, Eritrean ,Syrian and the Coptic. Beyond dialogue is life and living our faith. This was the faith and ask of each of us when our fathers met in 1965 Addis Ababa Conference. .It is going to 40 Years this coming January 15 - 21, 1965. The question we need to ask if if we are living it. For one of the greatest proponent for bringing a understanding on this dialogue, Our Father V.C Samuel of Blessed Memory in his life was requesting us his children from the Indian Orthodox Church. In fact, the effort should be focused first within us who are in communion.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

Fr VC Damuel is a legend. And yes, I agree, I know relationships among us are very positive and loving, but more and more dialogue will surely help.

@georgevarghese4189

16 күн бұрын

@@franthonymourad5870 ,With you blessing Father

Thank you our beloved fathers for your great discussion and may the Lord Jesus help us to be united with EO.

Thank you fathers for your wonderful response video. Very classy, very peaceable, it’s exactly the manner of behaviour Christ would be happy to see in the church. I pray for unity and I hope one day, humanity will stop trying to tear one part of the body down to prop up another 🙏✝️📈 Big fan of Roots of Orthodoxy (just not that interview in particular) and a huge fan of COA! ❤️

Pray for him as love always wins.

This is a great podcast. I think it also presents an opportunity for more videos to discuss some of these topics in-depth. Happy to help make this happen in any way I can.

Thank you fathers for a highly informative, loving, and charitable discussion. May God guide our mothers back to unity so that we may display the true desire of the Father. Through the intercessions of St. Athanasius, St. Cyril, St. Dioscorus, St. Severus, and all the Holy fathers who have defended the true Orthodox faith.

When I converted to Orthodoxy, I was baptized in an OCA church in WA. I went back to Honolulu where I was raised and attended a Greek Orthodox Church. I discovered a Coptic Orthodox Church and was Chrismated. I was the only person who could take Communion at all the Orthodox churches. To prevent an Orthodox Christian in good standing and who believes in and declares the same Creed is unconscionable! A seminary divided in Communion is no seminary at all!

@meina0614

13 күн бұрын

The oriental churches nor the eastern orthodox churches would give you communion from what you just stated. We dont have the same creeds. We may share the Nicene Creed in common but the eastern churches and the catholic churches confess a chalcedonian creed. We do not.

Thank you for organizing this so essential forum of discussion. The world needs clarity on profoundly fundamental aspects of humanity, which is Christianity.

I wish yall knew how much I needed this video ❤ God has answered my prayers with this beautiful video full of answers to my doubts!! God bless y’all

Us not being in communion makes me sad. It's time we came together again.

@dp34576

10 сағат бұрын

Fancy seeing you here, Raph!

@OrthodoxReview

9 сағат бұрын

​@@dp34576 I do a little lurking 😉

Dear Fathers, thank you very much for this talk! I'm a Serbian Orthodox, I visited Egypt recently, and I was completely amazed with the life of your Church, and with your theology. I read your theological explanations (F. Theodore Malaty and others) and I realized: you are not heretics at all! This is also obvoius from the fact that you haven't fallen in any additional (later, new) heresy, unlike Roman Catholics who keep falling deeper and deeper. I felt our spiritual unity very much. I'm in favor of leaving ridiculous (and heretical) ecumenical dialogue with completely confused western Christians who have less and less traces of original genuine Christianity: we should achieve unity among the Eastern Orthodox Churches and abandon futile talks and heretical prayers with the people that now don't know which sex they are, let alone any true theological issue. However, there are some current very serious problems: Patriarchate of Constantinople is directed by USA (and some other western states) to destroy the unity of the Orthodox, while procuring a complete unity of Greek Churches with the heresy of Roman Catholicism. The other grave issue is the ecclesiological and theological position of the Armenian Church: recently they entered a full eucharistic union with the Catholics, and several modern Armenian theologians openly advocate the heresy of aphtharodocetism (Julian of Halicarnassus & co.). However, I hope these obstacles are not insurmountable, if there is genuine will! All the best to all of you!

Dialogue between the two branches is much needed! Not by individuals like that lady in the video, or that other gentleman. That is not a criteria. We need church councils and monastics, to start talking to each other! That one will count. We need the clear up all the (naturally) piled up animosities and differences over the centuries / millennia! That's what happens when people STOP talking to each other. There probably WILL be details that will look like roadblocks along the way, but I am positive that the Lord can unite us through our good will and honest dialogues. Some kind of unity is so much needed here, instead of anathemas.

@sfappetrupavelandrei

15 күн бұрын

Most of the Eastern Orthodox monastics reject the idea of a Church with multiple branches. This view of multiple branches rejects the idea that the Holy Spirit preserves the purity of the dogmas in the Church. There was a couple of years ago a moment where from the theologians' point of view, an unity between EO and OO was very close. But then monks from Holy Mount Athos, monastics from various monasteries and lay people were strongly against it so the dialogue kind of froze.

I wish he could speak Amharic and come to Ethiopia. I would've taken him to monasteries where there are monks who learned the Bible and other books by heart and have been teaching christology like for 30 and 40 years. Imagine he speak to them like you guys don't know who Christ is and you have to come to the true church. I am pretty sure that they will obliterate him with overwhelming theological answers and he would be speechless in less than an hour. He asks them one question, they will give him ten correct answers.😂

@jonathanmeena6662

17 күн бұрын

Are you speaking of John Mahfouz?

@yenenehw

16 күн бұрын

@@jonathanmeena6662 Yeah he is speaking of the EO priest who disrespected us. To add to his point, these Coptic priest panelists seem begging for acceptance and they reflect poorly on our faith. Their lack of faith and feeble behavior only serves to strengthen the EO's misconceptions, leading them to openly and consistently hammer and label the entire OO family as heretics. The OO and EO Churches are fundamentally distinct, Leo of Chalcedon remains a heretic and given the significant Christological differences, achieving unity between the OO and EO is impossible. The Coptic OO's approach to seeking ecumenism with the EO and Roman Catholic Church is concerning.

@sfappetrupavelandrei

15 күн бұрын

If you talk about obliterating someone who believes that the truth is owned by his Church, I feel that you may not have the right spirit. Even the Apostles warned to keep the teachings we received. Now someone is bad because he does that. I have no desire to obliterate a Catholic who says that the only Church is the Catholic Church. I will strongly disagree with him but I will have a deep respect for his love towards his Church.

@biniam_hailu

15 күн бұрын

@@sfappetrupavelandrei Please don't twist what I said. it's obvious that I wasn't talking about physical altercation or something like that. What I said was if he knew Amharic language and willing to come to Ethiopia to debate about christology, I am glad to take him to renowned monks who teach theology. And that's it. We are the children of St. Athanasius and St. Cyril, we don't need a naughty priest to tell us that he right and we are wrong. Because they are apostolic, I have big respect for Eastern Orthodox churches as well as the Catholic church. We have a lot in common.

Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch Armenian Orthodox Church Tawhedo Orthodox Church Long live miaphysitism

@mdreagazit6794

18 күн бұрын

U forgot the other sister church, malankara, Eritrea Tewahdo , Ethiopian Tewahdo

@noblemottythomas7664

17 күн бұрын

@@mdreagazit6794 malankara church is a fraction of universal Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch and I have already mentioned Tawhedo Orthodox Church

@CyrilMatthai-jr8lw

17 күн бұрын

And the Indian Orthodox Church, the church of arguably the greatest Oriental theologians of the previous century - Fr. VC Samuel, HG Paulose Mar Gregorios, and HG Gregorios Mar Osthathios.

@mdreagazit6794

14 күн бұрын

@@CyrilMatthai-jr8lw is the Indian Orthodox Church a member of the oriental churches, what is the difference between the Indian Orthodox Church and the malankara Orthodox Church

@aaronc235

14 күн бұрын

⁠@@mdreagazit6794Yes. The Indian Orthodox Syrian Church (aka malankara Orthodox Syrian Church) is an autocephalous church and is part of the Oriental Orthodox Church. The Jacobite Church (aka malankara Syrian Orthodox Church) is part of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church. There is currently a schism between both factions unfortunately.

What a wonderful explanation and approach! Full of humility, love and facts. Very informative and very well said.

I appreciate the humbleness put into some of the reactions. However, my strict belief is that regarding the fundamental dogmatic matters, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches are different, and the latter is really orthodox in the sense that we follow the original Christian teaching being fundamentalist. As a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, I am not allowed to participate in communion service of the Easter orthodox church.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and I appreciate your response, my friend. Rest assured, there is so much more to unpack on this subject: a proper historical narrative of all that happened and was taught at Epehesus and all that led up to Chaceldon. Not to mention the turmoil introduced by the chelcedionian formula which led to unrest accoress the empire for almost 100 years.... you are not wrong - we were not saying the same thing, and that needs to be properly explained. Yes, language and terminology played a role, so did politics and power struggles, but so did theology! And all this will hopefully be unpacked in future videos. God bless you!

@user-dx9nr1jm9c

18 күн бұрын

@@franthonymourad5870 Fr Anthony are you here saying that Oriental Orthodoxy is “better” than Eastern Orthodoxy? If so, is that not just the flip side of what Fr John M. was, in essence, saying?

@franthonymourad5870

17 күн бұрын

​@user-dx9nr1jm9c The process of any good dialogue is twofold: to defend and give proper perspective on one's position and to also allow the same from the person sitting accross from you (while sincerely listening to their said claim). I believe my intention in my reply was to demonstrate that the Non-chalcedonian Oriental Churches have very good historical and theological reasons to hold the miaphysite position, and we intend to show that perspective to give the audience a chance to hear our side of the story. Now, as for "better", that's not the point at all. As we've said in the video, non of this is an a attempt to say "our mom is better", but rather "she is beautiful ". Therefore we are declaring here is the truth we've held on to. In so doing, we pray that we would never again be accused of a heresy "monophysitism" - which we are unjustly often accused of. To us this is a matter of truth and a defense of it. Ultimately, we hope that in sharing that, it may increase an openness to dialogue and ultimately increase the chances of union.

LONG LIVE ORTHODOXY, i'm from ethiopia living under ethiopian orthodox tewahido church. tewahido means miaphysitism in geez language of ethiopia. i think the problem here is most of us are afraid of uniting and condemn each other with strong words. they condemn us of the same thing that we condemn them of, it's clear there was a historical misunderstanding of brothers and we should be one again, their is only one orthodox church.

Evangelizing to non believers is the key to solve many issues

A lovely and charitable discussion. I always find the dialogue by the clergy on this channel charitable toward all Christians, focusing on what is good, godly, and positive instead of pointing out what is (supposedly) faulty. Due to a recommendation by Fr. Anthony several months ago in his Q&A, I read Fr. V. C. Samuel, "The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined," and wrote extensively about this book. I have waiting on my shelf a second book on the same topic, by Archbishop Karekin Sarkissian (later, Catholicos of all Armenians): "The Council of Chalcedon and the Armenian Church." I will write on this book as well. My heart aches hearing of the OO students unable to take communion at the EO seminary. What a sad statement, brothers sharing everything except that which is most fruitful and nourishing. I agree that Christology is important, but beyond recognizing that Jesus is both God and man, it is difficult for me to imagine that St. Peter will be standing at the gate testing us on giving the perfect definition of Christology as a condition of entry. To think that comprehending the incomprehensible is a cause of division is beyond my understanding.

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

Indeed Judges 13:18 "Why do you ask my name?" "It is too wonderful for you to understand." 1 Tim 3:16 "Great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh"

Fathers, could you, please, give a list of literature regarding Chalcedon from the Coptic point of view. Thank you!

@Lawrence-Gabriel

15 күн бұрын

Forgive me fathers for answering but I know abouna Anthony recommends this book The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined Book by V. C. Samuel

@MinaDKSBMSB

15 күн бұрын

Fr. Shenouda Maher’s Christology and the Council of Chalcedon, Roman Catholic priest Richard Price’s minutes of Chalcedon with commentary (I give this as a Coptic viewpoint because Price is actually honest and many times shows the contradictions and incongruence of Ephesus I and Chalcedon.). After that, read St. Cyril’s letters after the formula of reunion and go backwards chronologically through his many Christological writings (Letters to Succensus I and II, letter to Acacius, letter to Eulogius, letter to Valerian, “That Christ is One” also Chalcedonianly titled “On the Unity of Christ”). Then go through his writings surrounding Ephesus I (Letters to Nestorius, 12 anathemas, Responses to Theodoret’s refutations of the 12 anathemas). Then when you have a basic grasp of Christology, and you want to meet God face to face, read St. Severus in his entirety.

@VladimirKartayev

15 күн бұрын

@MinaDKSBMSB thank you very much

I love how the EO priest mr “they’re in darkness” was happy to slander the OO but when he gets offered to come on the show & discuss it he declines..

@georgegorgi1152

16 күн бұрын

Sad

@meina0614

13 күн бұрын

They think ecumenical dialogue is heretical. Its hard to not just call the new generation of EO catechumens as nothing more than reactionaries.

@lyralong

6 күн бұрын

Fr. Peter Heers has taught him to be rigorist and ungracious in a narrow and exclusionary way. Love always wins. Pray for them.

@thestudiooftamraglaser5390

6 күн бұрын

@@lyralong sadly this is the truth; the rigorism of fr. Heers has infiltrated into the EO Church

Would love to see Fr. Abraham Wassef from NJ part of these discussions. I believe he would add much richness and insight to these discussions in a digestible and fitting way for the audience.

May God keep “Otsiks”for us all!

I love you all from Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

Anyone has access to the 10 anathema’s of St. Gregory?

Ethiopia/Eritrea Tewahedo Orthodox Church the word Tewahedo translated into the divinity and humanity United as one ☝️! Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Christian were with us until the fourth ecumenical council just because we decided not to attend the fourth ecumenical councils to avoid Arianism and Nestorian Hersey all of the sudden Oreintal Churches seen as hectic by Caledonian Churches ⛪️! The funny part is that the fifth ecumenical councils held to fix the fourth ecumenical council’s problems! Still what bothered me is that both Eastern and Catholic Churches accepted the first three ecumenical councils that define the chritolgy of Christ but Caledonian churches call us Monophysite and Diphysite. We’re stubborn like mule and we keep all teaching and traditions we’ve received from Christ and his Apostles as it is and pass it to the next generation until the end of the day!

Thanks I love this KZread channel! Can you do a video on Christ’s trinity?

I've discovered that most clergy who cause so much harm to the Orthodox Church are from the Eastern Orthodox, with all love and respect I say that. It's very sad. 😢

@CarolineJoyAmico

16 күн бұрын

I noticed that too. I'm Coptic now, but I was EO before. I see what you mean, although they are all my brothers.

@kikikaakau-delizo8152

16 күн бұрын

@@CarolineJoyAmico yes, and they all need our prayers. God bless you!

@CarolineJoyAmico

16 күн бұрын

@@kikikaakau-delizo8152 God Bless you too! 🙏

@sfappetrupavelandrei

13 күн бұрын

Which Orthodox Church? Oriental Orthodox Church? So you expect that priests in the Eastern Orthodox Church to agree with those with who they are not in communion? There are clear difference between EO and OO so, at this point, there is no Orthodox Church as there is no Catholic Orthodox Church. Or in other words everyone thinks that they are part of the Catholic Orthodox Church and those with which they are not in communion are not part of the Church of Christ.

Wait, what was the point about Theodoret of Cyrhus? Could the Fathers develop? I didn't catch that

I am asking an Honest question here please, because i dont understand and need clarification. As regarding the producing of Saints through the Grace that is in the Church, are we saying that there are no saints in the Roman Catholic church, because it seems to me that we finds saints there too, and people of deep devotion and humility. I am only asking to understand if that understanding that only the Church produces saints could be extended to roman Catholic and probably other Heterodox circles too. Thank you

@franthonymourad5870

14 күн бұрын

This is a fabulous question that I know can be very controversial for some. I have personally come to believe that the Holy Spirit works freely with all those who faithfully pursue the truth of God. There are very sincere and holy people in every tradition, and so God had indeed demonstrated that He does not deprive them of His grace. So, while I will continue to say that I believe "the fullness of the truth" is found in the Oriental Orthodox Church, this does not in any way mean that God is not working to produce saints among all those who love Him with all their hearts. I believe all this to be part of the mystery of how the Holy Spirit is at work in our world.

Fathers, can we get a detailed discussion on the teachings of Severus of Antioch, because some Chalcedonians claim that his theology leads to nominalism and tritheism. Thank you

Thank you our fathers for defending the Faith of our ancestors who died and shed their blood for it. Thank you our fathers for defending the youth who is being messed with into thinking they are not part of the Body of Christ, through your prayers, may they be protected. This is a good and proper video responding to the many attacks our Church faces today. One thing I will humbly say, my ears were a little bit uncomfortable hearing the term, “two mothers.” If Christ is one, and has one Body, then there can only be one mother, as the Father of Ecclesiology’, St. Cyprian teaches. Although this is my only point for the video. Also, I spoke to some of the fathers and bishops who were around during the time of the dialogue and they said it was not accepted by many of the churches when taken back to the Synod’s, and they expressed this was because there is a true and real difference and God was protecting His Church. I just wish to humbly share these thoughts, I pray they may be of value and edification. Thank you again fathers. May God reward you in this life and the next.

Abouna I have a question. I am a Syriac Orthodox. The closest church in reasonable distance is Antioch Orthodox. Can I take communion because I remember reading about an agreement but I would just like to know. Thanks Abouna

@CarolineJoyAmico

16 күн бұрын

I am now Coptic. I was EO. My Godfather is EO, Antiochian. And he communed copts. But then I moved to an OCA church with a priest who wouldn't do it. It seems to be up to each priest. I love being Coptic. So much love!

@junicornplays980

5 күн бұрын

The Middle Eastern churches tend to be more reasonable about it, the Antiochian church I attend communes Eritrean Orthodox and Melkite Catholics, because they don't really have much options in my city.

@WaybetterthanBron23

5 күн бұрын

@@junicornplays980 Yeah same. I found a Coptic Church about half hour away so I am going there. But that was good to know thank you. Schlomo A’Laykum

51:10 thank you, Father for correctly titling Leo I as Archbishop of Rome, which is what he was called then. I hope all of us can refer to our fathers Pope St. Athanasius, Pope St. Cyril, and Pope St. Dioscorus with their correct titles when having these discussions - the archbishops of Alexandria were called Pope from the second century, long before the archbishops of Rome were. In fact, even in the edict of Thessaloniki, the latter was referred to as Pontifex (priest, per the old Roman usage).

And yes, we do say "They are not THE Church!" on one hand, but on the other we've worn out those Father El-Anthony videos of yours. He has many secret fans in our numbers. 🤐 Let us figure this problem out!

In the Eastern Orthodox view they can never go back on a previous council and accept Chalcedon because in their understanding of ecclesiology and the Church, the Holy Synod is infallible and cannot make mistakes. Therefore to go back on something said previously, would prove this aspect to be false.

@DMCRPF

18 күн бұрын

like 3rd council of Constantinople in which Severus and the Oriental Orthodox as a whole were further anathematized for believing Christ has one will. At 40:59 the scholar that is being puffed up in this video called us heretics and was not called out. I hope Abouna will respond.

Well done!

At 4059 Dr. Bouteneff says that it is heresy to believe Christ has one will. Why did none of our priests contest this when asked to comment?

@franthonymourad5870

17 күн бұрын

On the matter of One or Two Wills in Christ, we decided not to address it in this video but to have a separate video on this subject as it deserves more time and attention. Im sure you will agree that there is a lot to unpack on this subject. Hence why Fr Michael said at the end of our video that we could have said and discussed many more things, but we chose to limit our conversations to those in this podcast. Indeed, we, too, noticed that Dr. Bouteneff states that Monothelitism is a 6th C. heresy and he also mentions in the video that in dialoguing with Oriental Theologians, they have confessed that Christ has two wills. We can not speak for Dr. Bouteneff nor those he dialogued with, although we would have liked to know what was meant by those who made the statement... And to be clear, if what is meant here is one simple will - implying that Christ does not have real and perfect human will - then we too condemn this. Nevertheless, we know that as Oriental Orthodox, our Miaphysite Christology informs our understanding of the one Theandric activity in Christ Jesus our Lord. In Him is united a perfectly divine and human will, ineffably. As St Severus teaches us: "...the Logos of God has united to himself not only to the flesh but also to the soul, which is endowed with will and understanding, in order to allow our souls, which are inclined towards evil, to lean towards choosing good and turning away from evil." This union in no way erases or diminishes the very real and perfect human will that Christ assumed in order to heal (as St Gregory teaches). All this and more will be discussed in future videos.

@drkhalil8466

17 күн бұрын

Thanks Abouna. Looking forward to it. Some requests: 1) Can you please explain in the video how Agatho misinterpreted the church fathers? He had several quotes from them though I didn't see how they supported his position. 2) Define 'will' and where it comes from. If a faculty originating from the soul (per St. Severus) then doesn't two wills mean two souls? 3) St. Severus was anathematized by the Chalcedonians in the 3rd council at Constantinople. Yet he is the first father we commemorate in liturgy. Was his belief in one will of Christ the only reason for his excom, and where can one find his writings in English? 4) in future Abouna, please call out the erroneous ideas lest your children get confused. "We don't agree with this but will explain in another video". Consistently painting someone in good light, incl immediately after an erroneous statement gives the impression that we should agree with he said. Salam

@meina0614

13 күн бұрын

⁠@@drkhalil8466St. Severus was never anathematized by our church let alone in a council that is not even ours. The third council of Constantinople is a chalcedonian council that rejects monoenergism and monothelitism. The only thing that comes close to an anathema of Severus in the oriental church was done by the Armenians and this was due to a misunderstanding of Severus’s teaching due to how his theology was presented to them by a disciple of Julian.

@drkhalil8466

10 күн бұрын

@@meina0614 sorry about that, I added 'non' for no proper reason. I meant those conducting the 3rd council of constantinople (i.e. NOT oriental orthodox), were the ones that anathematized him.

@meina0614

10 күн бұрын

@@drkhalil8466 the reason Severus was condemned was because he was a miaphysite and thus he believed in a theandric will rather than a two will Christology. What was specifically condemned was the monothelite heresy that claimed that there was only a divine will only in Christ. Since the oriental split with the Roman Church during Chalcedon, it was presumed that we believed in such heresies and thus Severus was condemned as a result. The chalcedonian church believes in two activities in the incarnated christ, while we believe in a singular composite activity in Christ. Two activities in Christ cannot be accepted in our church as this would be a confession of Nestorianism.

We have to see diverse Orthodoxy

Why are you showing other drs or professors . Are they Oriental Orthodox if not i dont want to learn from them about what My religion is about

Bookmark 45:00

That priest's inflammatory language is not uncommon among other Chalcedonian clergy; at least, not uncommon among those online. Many even insist that we are saying two very different things, and they may very well be right. For where in the Scriptures is Dualism taught? that Christ has two independently acting wills, as Leo taught. Does this doctrine of a dualistic Christ have any place in Christianity?

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

James 1:8 "he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways"

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

@Troy-Moses Thank you for that comment. The question of "are we saying the same thing" will indeed be investigated further in future videos. Today, we may very well have the same chriatilogical goals, but we go about expressing them differently. But was the case in the 5th and 6th century?...We're we just saying the same thing?... more to come on that. Stay tuned.

@kmj2000

18 күн бұрын

@@franthonymourad5870 The full context (James 1: 5-8) is "5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." It has nothing to do with Christology, but with faith and doubt.

That's the position of the councils regardless of scholars. Must correct confession

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

Agreed. Constantinople II tried to correct the false confession made at Chalcedon but failed.

@Dlee-eo5vv

18 күн бұрын

@@MinaDKSBMSB that's called revision.

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

@@Dlee-eo5vv the Holy Spirit doesn't need revision of previous lies. He only speaks truth in His church.

Some people, including so-called church leaders, actually WANT the division of Christ's Body to continue. This is what the devil wants and IT MUST STOP! It's ego and pride that fuels this and unbelievers see it and it's a stumbling block.

Is it truly humble to assert that modern scholars know better than the unanimous voices of Saints and Councils for over a thousand years?

@franthonymourad5870

14 күн бұрын

I don't believe that's the claim we are making. This video was a response to show that opinions shared by Fr John Mahfouz and others don't actually allign with many honest hierarchs, clergymen, and theologians from the EO church. We were demonstrating the contrast between both approaches. Hope that clarifies. Also, the voices of the saints and even the councils are not "unanimous". If anything, the post-Chalcedonian era was one that clearly demonstrated that many in the church were not at ease with what was pronounced at Chalcedon. Case and point : the "fifth ecumenical council". There's lots to unpack here. Stay tuned for future videos. God bless

@brotheraugustine

14 күн бұрын

Fr. John was sharing the perspective of 100% of our Saints and Councils - that’s the point I was attempting to make. Modern Eastern Orthodox academics may claim they know better, but I think the humble path is to accept the teachings of those who we universally recognize as inspired and illumined.

As an ethiopian orthodox..a youtube video by living orthodoxy i saw an eastern teacher accusing as monophysite..he said as if we believe 2 natures are mutated to 1nature ..so u seem monophysite hesaid .i was very sad.why the misrepresentation ??

People people people you have to be very careful not to be like the protestants accepting everybody they have divided Jesus Christ in two . They say he has two natures if they are lying about Jesus Christ that is done there is no debate. The Coptic side is saying oh we are the same the other side is saying no you're wrong That's how you should be talking to people who are missing up you have to tell them you are wrong we are not the same and you should correct your errors.

kzread.info/dash/bejne/noNskqhxipiumJM.html μεσα

kzread.info/dash/bejne/fW2l17eqibqYXZM.html μεσα

I think you all open the door and these podcasts should continue weekly or by weekly. It should also include scholars from all oriental( 8:37 Armenia 🇦🇲 , Syria 🇸🇾, India 🇮🇳, Ethiopia 🇪🇹 Eritrea 🇪🇷 England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 and others )churches. We stand still and never change for over 2000 years. Wow I think the spirit of God is speaking through you all! I think as Ethiopian orthodox Christian I totally agree it’s okay to have diversity! Diversity is not division! Evan though we have almost no difference with Catholic and Easter Orthodox but 1500 years separation is not easy to reconcile in a day or year or decade we should not rush or force union with them.

9:15 who are you to say we are one with Eastern Orthodox. saint dioscorus didn't say we are one. You need to ask the holy Spirit.

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

Abouna is correct in his statement. What we have to be careful with is how the Holy Spirit is working in the Byzantines, Latin, or any other tradition outside of the Church. For example, in Acts 10:19 the Holy Spirit tells St. Peter that there are 3 men looking for him. The Holy Spirit was with these men and working in them to bring them to the Church before they received the mysteries. It is appropriate to say that the Holy Spirit works in their traditions at this level to point them to the truth. The church is here when they are ready to conform and, indeed, modify their erroneous declarations of faith (faith they had to fix or revise because of errors they made previously as in the example of the three chapters) to comply with that of the first three ecumenical councils and Holy Spirit breathed Scripture.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

​@MinaDKSBMSB well said Mina!

@idontknowname-rl8yb

18 күн бұрын

​The guy is saying that the spirit is the same it can't be the same if they are saying Jesus Christ has two natures . . There's only one truth. He is trying to sound loving and caring. How did he judge that their spirit is the same. If you divide Christ in two you are wrong it's simple as that. ​@@MinaDKSBMSB

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

@@idontknowname-rl8yb that's not what his reverence stated. He stated that the Holy Spirit is One and the same who works. He is the same Spirit who even works in atheists and pagans to point them to the truth as shown in that passage in Acts 10. Another example is when St. Paul baptized the Ephesian church. Do we equate the Ephesian church to atheists or pagans before St. Paul gave them the mysteries? No, there was a certain level of work the Holy Spirit graced them with even before St. Paul gave them the fullness of the grace. The same thing is what we see in those three people brought to St. Peter. Also, I ask that you maintain respect for the great amount of grace Abouna is giving the Byzantines in his indeed generous, but nonetheless true, statement. None of these fathers deny that we have the fullness of the Spirit of truth in our tradition. It is beyond clear.

@idontknowname-rl8yb

16 күн бұрын

​@@MinaDKSBMSB1:17:19 is there anything impossible for the holy Spirit or God ? . Both side . Is he the middle guy . There is wrong and there is right. This is about the nature of Jesus Christ. God died for us . He can't be dividing him into two.

The Coptic church really doesn’t understand the Chalcedonians, nor do they understand Saint Cyril and constantly misquote him. When Cyril says one nature, incarnate, God the word, it just means that before the incarnation there was only one divine nature, no human nature in the Godhead. There was no human nature in the Trinity. Also when Cyril says “kata physin” which means “according to nature”, it doesn’t mean a natural union, it means a hypostatic (tropos) union, meaning the way that nature exists, either according to nature or contrary to nature, in this case according to nature means according to what God willed/intended (logos of nature). There’s a simplicity to Copts that they just don’t get the chalcedonian definition.

@franthonymourad5870

14 күн бұрын

This argument that you pose has been made many times over by those who would challenge the Oriental faith. It's unfortunately a weak and misinformed argument. Anyone who is in the least bit acquainted with the corpus of writings if St Cyril will know that was indeed a leader of Miaphysite Christilogy. If you doubt this, then I urge you, please read all three of his responses to Nestorius, read the Acts of Ephesus, and read his work "That Chris is One" also known as "On the Unity of Christ". All these and many more of his writings demonstrate that if anything, we, the Oriental Orthodox, understand St Cyril best. God bless you

@Draketeen196

14 күн бұрын

@@franthonymourad5870 until this day I have heard no coherent argument about myaphysitism from the Copts. It is never explained and you just saying weak and uninformed, you have made absolutely no argument. Actually I made no argument at all, just corrected the misunderstanding of Cyril. It means nothing what you said. You are providing no argument. Typical response from Copts is to just misquote Cyril. I have read his corpus and you need to take all of it into account instead of taking one part and saying here you see. That’s what protestants do with scripture to justify false doctrine. You need sound Greek philosophical background to understand Chalcedon. I suggest you read Saint Maximus the confessor in order to better understand the holy council of Chalcedon. You will better understand that the union of natures is hypostatic not natural/essential. Until this day I still don’t understand what orientals are holding on to, makes no sense, we say that Christ is one and we also believe in the unity of Christ. Just saying you understand Cyril best, you are saying nothing. It’s just arrogance. It’s the most weak argument you can provide to say I understand best. Give me sound doctrine instead. The only reason Chalcedon is not accepted is for political reasons not theological reasons. Perception of byzantines is that they are persecutors and unfortunately put us in the same category as Arab Muslims. Church Fathers like Maximus the confessor defended Chalcedon and paid the price, they cut off his hand and his tongue, so this idea that the imperial Byzantine church was forcing dyaphysitism down everyone’s throat is absolutely wrong.

@Draketeen196

14 күн бұрын

@@franthonymourad5870interestingly enough comment I made before has been deleted. I guess the Coptic church is cancelling people now. I went to a Coptic church and yes they are a bit too charismatic and WOKE. There is misinformation in this podcast. The Eastern church is a lot better with dealing with plurality. We have autocephalous churches that are independent and autonomous. We are not pledging allegiance to Constantinople. This is misinformation. Actually we are good with plurality, that is the reason we can grasp two natures united in one hypostasis. Unity is not at the level of nature but the person. Because Coptic church cannot deal with plurality, they are obsessed and stuck on this false doctrine of myaphysitism.

@franthonymourad5870

14 күн бұрын

​@@Draketeen196​ My friend, you did make an argument, and that's what I responded too. Please re-read your first post. You're making an accusation against us, one that I believe to be the same one made over and over again by many who challenge Miaphysite Christology. In regards to St. Cyril, you say you've read his corpus, and I do not doubt that you may have, but I can't wrap my mind around how you've missed his very obvious teaching. St Cyril very emphatically says that 1) We do not speak of two after the union 2) and that we can contemplate two in theory alone - not it reality - for Christ has one incarnate nature! This is the foundational teaching in all of St Cyrils writings on this topic. If you deny this, then I believe you are misreading his teachings. As for you not understanding Oriental Orthodox Miaphysite Christology, if you are sincere in wanting to understand our position, please consider reading some of the following: That Christ is One (On the Unity of Christ) by St. Cyril of Alexandria Three Christological Treatises (Fathers of the Church Patristic Series) by St. Cyril of Alexandria The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined by V.C. Samuel Christology according to the Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches by Fr Tadros Malaty Orthodox Christology by Father Peter Farrington The Life and Works of Severus of Antioch in the Coptic and Copto-arabic Tradition: Texts and Commentaries by Youhanna Youssef The Acts of the Council of Ephesus by Richard Price - lots to discover in regards to the very clear Miaphysite Christology of the Universal church! The Acts of the Council of Chalcedon by Richard Price also shows the actual narrative of how Dioscorus was falsely accused and they could not pin him down on any theological grounds, but was deposed rather than excommunicated. In addition to these, if you would like to know what we teach through video format, @TheLionsDen channel released an 8-part video series explaining the Oriental Orthodox position. We'll worth your time. Finally, please rest assured that when I say we know St Cyril best, it's because historically, the Coptic Orthodox Church are those who inherited St Cyrils own Synod of bishops accross all of Egypt. Chalcedon took place only 7 years after his death, the Alexandrian Orthodox Church of Egypt (the Coptic Church) was still filled with the disciples and bishops that Cyril ordained and served alongside. We knew what he taught and handed down to us because he was literally our patriarch. And we have no doubt that he would have opposed the Christological innovations put forward at Chalcedon. So when I say we know him, there's historical precedence that cannot be denied. Please know that it's not meant to be a jab of any sort, but a fact that ought to be considered.

@franthonymourad5870

14 күн бұрын

​​@@Draketeen196Rest assured nothing was deleted. And I for one would love to hear your comments. Please feel free to repost. As for your claims of Coptic Churches being WOKE, I'm sorry if you had a negative experience at a specific parish. But please, let's not resort to generalized accusations of that sort. Let's continue having constructive exchange. God bless you

You said near the end that the thing Fr John M said that you found so deeply hurtful, offensive, and harmful to the Body of Christ…is also said by Oriental Orthodox about the Eastern Orthodox, namely that they are incorrect, in darkness in some sense and not fully the Church. So there are people in both “church families” believe that the others are in the wrong. Would you make a video to correct an Oriental Orthodox priest who teaches that the Eastern Orthodox are wrong? If so, than I think you would be fair- minded. But if you don’t, not so much. So what do you four actually believe? A) the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are both fully Orthodox and fully the Body of Christ (as the Eastern Orthodox professors in your video seem to believe) Or B) the Oriental Orthodox is more correct than the Eastern Orthodox ? I suspect Fr Anthony you believe the latter, based on a comment you made here. If so, than how are you different from Fr John M, except that he said it plainly and honestly (and with no malice)? Please clarify your beliefs in future videos. May the dialogue continue, and deeper friendships among us form by God’s grace and to His glory

@franthonymourad5870

17 күн бұрын

Thank you for your question, dear brother. I can not speak for my fathers on the panel, but I will share my position, which I believe is a middle ground between the options you offered. To be clear, I will always choose the Oriental Orthodox perspective and expression of the faith. I assume this comes as no surprise to anyone because, after all, I chose to devote my life to the service of this, my beloved Coptic Orthodox Church. This, however, does not translate in any way to any animosity or condescending view towards my brothers and sisters in the Chalcedonian churches. From my very limited knowledge, I believe in my heart of hearts that in today's modern dialogue, both families of Churches "WANT" many of the same things. For instance, we want to defend and clearly teach the following: 1. We want to ensure that no one confesses two persons in Christ. There are not two sons, rather One Incarnate Word and Eternal Son of God. 2. We want to ensure that it is clear that this One Son is perfectly divine and perfectly human - the God-Man, Jesus Christ - inseparable, without change, and this is an ineffable mystery. 3. His humanity - including a real human will - was not swallowed up by his divinity. In Him was no confusion, mingling, or alteration. 4. This One Lord Jesus Christ whom we confess in our Creed, is consubstantial with us and consubstantial with the Father. 5. We both want to faithfully denounce Apollinarianism, Adoptionism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, etc. And many other important points that I am sure could be enumerated and discussed at length... All this being said, I believe our common desire - what we WANT - is the common ground we must recognize in each other for the sake of dialoguing towards union. Now, in regards to how we express ourselves and explain "what we want," this is where conflict can and often arises. We do not agree on how best to express these truths that we both deeply desire to defend. What makes this even more complicated is that there is a long and painful history that we do not interpret in the same way that has major implications on how we express the faith we both have. So, to be clear yet again, I do not deny that there are indeed important differences that must be discussed among our Theologians. I also don't sweep these differences under the rug as if it's only a matter of semantics because, as I have said, history and theology are interpreted through language. To diminish the importance of our expressions is to potentially do harm to our faith - which should never be considered as the truth above all else matters to the Church. Semantics does indeed play a role in the conflict, but it is far more complicated than "mere words"... At a personal level, I believe the Holy Spirit is at work in both families. I believe that divine grace is accessible in both families. I believe both families are producing faithful disciples and saints for the kingdom of God. I believe all this… while simultaneously believing that the "fullness of the truth" is perfectly expressed and preserved in the Oriental Orthodox Church. I pray this offends no one, but nevertheless, this is my conviction. As you said, may the Lord continue to guide and guard all his children and lead us to union with Him and with each other.

The Definition of the Council of Chalcedon was not accepted by the extreme disciples of Saint Cyril of Alexandria, nor by those who later came to be associated with them. These Christians were called by the Chalcedonians Monophysites, because of their insistence on Saint Cyril’s phrase “one nature of the Word of God Incarnate” (“one nature” in Greek is “mia physis”). Hence they rejected the Chalcedonian Definition, which speaks of Christ being “in two natures.” The supporters of Chalcedon claimed and still claim that the Chalcedonian Definition is fully in accord with the thought of Saint Cyril, who did not insist on the Monophysites’ hallmark phrase “one nature of the Word of God Incarnate” in his letters to Nestorius, or at the Council of Ephesus, or in the Formulary of Peace. And from other things he wrote, it is clear that when he used this problematic phrase, his actual meaning was “one hypostasis of the Word of God Incarnate,” which is just what Chalcedon proclaimed and defended.

@MinaDKSBMSB

7 күн бұрын

Chalcedon contradicted Ephesus I and Ephesus II.

@csizzle24377

7 күн бұрын

@@MinaDKSBMSB Ephesus II is not an ecumenical council. It was not inspired by the Holy Spirirt. In fact, an old man named Flavian was beaten so badly by Dioscorus’ followers that he ultimately ended up dying not long after that so called council.

@MinaDKSBMSB

7 күн бұрын

@@csizzle24377 Flavian wrote a letter to Leo several months after Ephesus II. Why doesn’t he mention being beaten by St. Pope Dioscorus or any clergy? The letters between Leo, Flavian, Pulcheria, and Anatolius are still in existence. None of them indicate Flavian being killed at Ephesus II. Also, Chalcedon’s minutes indicate 9 conflicting tales about Flavian being killed. They also show us bishops repenting for lying about what they stated happened at Ephesus II. So you are choosing to side with liars and false accusers? Like the Pharisees when they put our Lord on trial? You like that side?

@csizzle24377

7 күн бұрын

@@MinaDKSBMSB I am not disputing that there are sins on both sides. I am not referring here to the action of the 630 Holy Fathers of Chalcedon guided by the Holy Spirit or the outcome of the Council, which the one True Church affirms and I believe. I am referring here to likely isolated and independent provocative actions of fallen human beings that may have led to the Copts hardening their hearts to the council and losing faith in it. Of course, where ever we fallen humans are, there will be plenty of horror and sin. However, the Holy Spirit like you correctly said is not the author of confusion. It is we, fallen and sinful man, who bring about all confusion. The Holy Spirit speaks through the authority of the Ecumenical councils to accurately pronounce a judgement. The Church is perfect but the blemishes on it are from us fallen human beings. Nonetheless, the Holy Spirit is triumphant and does not need us to be perfect to work and bring about beauty from our misery. All things work to good.

@MinaDKSBMSB

7 күн бұрын

@@csizzle24377 God bless you.

Sorry but fr John didn't say anything incorrect. Being one of the first major splits in the early church is difficult to reconcile unless you denounce the errors which made you excommed in the first place. Upholding the true faith and apostolic succession is essential because christ hasn't changed and never will, he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Not believing in the ecumenical council , who had the infallibility of the holy spirit isn't something that can be taken lightly. We pray for your reconcile.

@themoseschannel5951

18 күн бұрын

Yes, rejecting a holy council is a big deal. Yet, the Byzantine Orthodox Church rejects Ephesus II (449 AD). The whole first session of Chalcedon is all about rejecting this holy council.

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

@Fac35437 Indeed recognition of the Holy Councils is of immense importance. We agree with that so much, that this is precisely why we, the Oriental Orthodox, could not reconcile what was being exclaimed at Chalcedon. To us, the formula demanded at Chalcedon could not be reconciled to the very clear Miaphysite teachings of the Holy Fathers at Ephesus. And when being confronted with that reality, we could not accept the Chalcedonian expression of Christology. Now if you feel that this doesn't make sense to you, can I suggest that you futher investigate these claims by reading the acts of Ephesus 431? You will see that the teachings of St Cyril andSt Theodtus and others all point to the churches belief was always miaphysitism. Please consider reading these acts so you can have a more accurate picture of our interpretation of Church history.

@kmj2000

18 күн бұрын

He did. He said a lot of incorrect things, even I could point them out as a Catholic.

@hermonymusofsparta

18 күн бұрын

The early ecumenical councils were political tools used by Roman Emperors who were more interested in unity than doctrine. Constantinus betrayed the bishops for arguing over unscriptural terms (substance). The outcomes of the councils were preset by the Emperor by picking the Bishops he wanted and setting the ratio. They were rigged essentially, and don't have apostolic succession or the Holy Spirit.

@MinaDKSBMSB

18 күн бұрын

Chalcedon isn’t a church council. Why did the next gathering condemn actions they did in Chalcedon that were already done by the Holy Spirit and the church in Ephesus II? You are accepting a big contradiction. That tradition is clearly broken and violates everything you think you are upholding in your comment.

You’re in darkness

The young lighter skin priest, while referring to the EO Church as our family and asserting that the guiding Spirit for both churches (OO & EO) is the same, fails to acknowledge that all of EO consider the OO as heretics due to differences in Christology. Additionally, the slim priest, in discussing diversity, uses the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church (EOTC) as an example, seemingly implying that the EOTC differs from the Coptic OO Church in a manner similar to the EO. Both priests' statements are embarrassing and reflect poorly on our faith. Furthermore, when questioned about the distinctions b/n the OO and EO traditions, all members of the panel displayed a lack of conviction and resorted to evasive responses. *_Such a lack of faith and feeble behavior only serves to strengthen the EO's misconceptions, leading them to openly and consistently hammer the entire OO family as heretics -- the EO have little to no respect for our tradition._* However, I'll confess the truth --- At the Council of Chalcedon, the EO fathers deviated from the teachings of the pre-451 Church Fathers, such as St. Cyril the great, the two St. Gregories, St. Ephrem, St. Hilary,...etc., who advocated for the "One Nature of God the Word Incarnate" and instead, they adopted Leo's formula of Two natures following the union. *_In accepting the heretic Leo's Tome which says, "Christ is two: God and man, the One astonished us with miracles and the other received disgrace and suffering," thereby emphasizing a divine nature performing its functions and a human nature fulfilling its role in Two natures, the EO persisted to this day in the heresy of Dyophysitism Christology._* In defense of the OO's church, I'll quote a few pre-451 Church Fathers:- ✝St. Cyril of Alexandria: - After The union has occurred, however, *_we do not divide the Natures from one another, nor do we sever the One and Indivisible into two Sons, but we say that there is One Son, and as the holy Fathers have stated, "One Incarnate Nature of The Word"_* [First letter to Succensus] ✝St. Cyril of Alexandria: - So just as everything is spoken of the One person, *_for One Nature is recognized as existing after the union namely that of the Word Incarnate._* [Second Tome against Nestorius] ✝St. Cyril of Alexandria: - So, if we talk of a union, we confess it to be between flesh endowed with a rational soul and the Word; and those who speak of “two natures” understand it in this way. However, *_once we have confessed the union, the things that have been united are no longer separated from one another but are thereafter One Son; and One is His Nature since the Word has been made flesh._* [Letter to Eulogius] ✝St. Cyril of Alexandria: - Surely, it is beyond dispute that the Only-Begotten, being by Nature God became man by a genuine union, in a manner beyond explanation or understanding. *_For as soon as this union has taken place, there is A single nature presented to our minds, the Incarnate Nature of The Word Himself._* [Against Nestorius 2.(Preface)] ✝St. Ephrem the Syrian: - *_Though your nature is One, its interpretations are many._* There are narratives exalted, intermediate, and lowly. [Hymns on Faith 10:3] ✝St. Ephrem the Syrian: - *_Glorious is the Wise One Who allied and joined Divinity with humanity, one from the height and the other from the depth. He mingled (united) the Natures like pigments and an image (One Nature) came into being: the God-Man._* [Hymns on Incarnation 8:2] ✝St. Gregory of Nazianzus: - To sum up the matter: there are two separate elements of which the Savior is composed (the invisible is not identical with the visible or the timeless with the temporal), but there are not two separate beings; emphatically not. *_Both elements (Natures) are blended (united) into One, the Divinity taking on Humanity, the Humanity receiving Divinity._* [Letter 101.5-6, to Cledonius.] ✝St. Gregory of Nazianzus: - ... *_He is not two Persons, God forbid! For both Natures are One by the combination (unity), the Deity being made Man, and the Manhood deified or however one should express it._* [To Cledonius the Priest Against Apollinarius. (Ep. CI.)] ✝St. Gregory of Nyssa: - So how could the unity be separated into a duality, since *_no numerical distinction can be made?_* [Letter to St. Theophilus of Alexandria] ✝St. Hilary of Poitiers: - We have Christ working in Himself the very things which God works in Him, for *_it was Christ who died, stripping from Himself His flesh…it was none other who raised Christ from the dead but Christ Himself._* [Book IX On the Trinity]. Leo of Chalcedon (EO) on the other hand presents a division within Christ depicting one aspect of Christ performing awe-inspiring miracles such as raising the dead while another aspect endures suffering and humiliation. ✝St. Hilary of Poitiers states: -Thus, *_God was born to take us into Himself, suffered to justify us, and died to avenge us…, God had assumed our weakness... God chose to die of His own will…. since God died through the flesh._* [Book IX On the Trinity]. Leo of Chalcedon (EO) expressed the notion that Christ the man was born, suffered, and died. Although the acts of being born, suffering, and dying are intrinsic to flesh, St. Hilary attributed them to God, recognizing that the flesh of Jesus Christ is none other than the flesh of God the Son in One Incarnate Nature. *_The OO and EO Churches are fundamentally distinct, and given the significant Christological differences, achieving unity between the two is impossible. Unfortunately, almost every Coptic OO monk and priest have developed a habit of downplaying the differences b/n the EO and OO, which greatly serves to confuse the OO laity. The Coptic OO's approach to seeking ecumenism with the EO and Roman Catholic Church is concerning, as it ultimately lead to a denial of our Church Fathers' teachings and a compromise of our established dogma, potentially resulting in a fracturing of our faith._* FYI - I'm a proud Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido faithful and since my childhood, our revered saintly monks have instilled in me the belief that Leo of Rome is a heretic - it is disheartening to observe that none of the OO priests in this panel had the courage to address this issue, while rightfully criticizing Eutychus as a heretic on multiple occasions.

@MinaDKSBMSB

15 күн бұрын

Brother, when St. Cyril began addressing the Nestorian controversy, he wrote to his monks confirming them in the use of the title Theotokos without calling Nestorius a heretic. Nestorius at this point had accepted the condemnation of the “theotokos” title and had made erroneous declarations about the nature of Christ. When St. Cyril writes to Nestorius, he calls him brother and he gives him his titles befitting the bishopric. Even at the council of Ephesus I they speak of Nestorius with his honorific titles up until the point he is anathematized. Your tone and addressing of these holy fathers is unacceptable and requires revision. While your message is indeed orthodox, this tone and insulting address of the fathers is unbefitting of the Holy Spirit that is in you.

@yenenehw

15 күн бұрын

@@MinaDKSBMSB Are you upset about my addressing of Leo and Nestorius, or the Coptic OO priests on the panel? If you’re an EO and feel uneasy regarding my remarks about Leo and Nestorius, I regret to inform you that I’ll not retract my perspective. However, if your concern relates to my critical assessment of the Coptic OO priests - I get it brother. Yeah, I may have been somewhat extreme in my approach, but I had specific reasons for doing so. Allow me to explain - over the past few years, I’ve noticed a growing discontent within Ethiopian community here in the USA, with some doubting the OO tradition. Others even compare and question the devotion of our saintly hermits in the caves and monasteries of Ethiopia in comparison to the inhabitants of EO monks in Mount Athos - the sad part is that none even attempted to visit the caves and desert dwellers of the Ethiopian hermits. I don’t intend to show disrespect to anyone at Mount Athos, but the Ethiopian hermits are exceptional. For instance, my spiritual father has dedicated himself to praying outdoors, from dusk till dawn, completely naked except for his undergarments, with his legs (knee down) submerged in water, for an impressive 25 years. I have also had the privilege of encountering a monk who has kept a stone in his mouth for 30 years, speaking not a single word, removing it only to consume food and partake in communion, following the example of St. Abba Agathon of Scetis. So knowing these facts you may understand my sentiments when my OO tradition and the virtues of my saintly fathers are questioned by fellow OO brothers and sisters who are inclined to the EO tradition. I was never much of a social media enthusiast, but I learned that my brothers and sisters have been heavily influenced by KZread, Twitter and TikTok content that disparages the OO tradition, disseminated by EO priests and monks. Furthermore, I learned that the feeble and timid response of the Coptic OO priests in addressing these issues has resulted in a loss of faith among my brothers and sisters. Consequently, I became actively involved and began to hammer the EO hard while mildly reprimanding the Coptic OO priests. You see, the EO perceive the feebleness of the Coptic OO priests as a Christological vulnerability and emboldened by it, they continue to address us as heretics in every KZread content they roll out. Consequently, OO brothers and sisters who are not firmly grounded in their Christology observe the weak response of the Coptic OO priests and begin to entertain doubts about our tradition, allowing uncertainty to seep into their hearts. Have you noticed? Instead of finishing strong, the priest towards the end nearly shed tears while addressing the EO priest who labeled us as heretics, essentially begging for acceptance. Regardless of one's perspective, this demonstrates a lack of confidence and faith. When will these Coptic priests accept the truth? It is clear that we can never achieve unity unless one of us renounces our Christology - it is important to acknowledge that the EO will never accept the "One Nature" formula. Furthermore they’ll never cease anathematizing the esteemed St. Severus, St. Dioscorus, and St. Philoxenus during their mass. So what is the point of bending backward for acceptance at the expense of losing our faithful? Observe how the EO priests and monks exude confidence and assurance in their Christology. It is crucial that we remain resolute in our Christology and work towards the preservation of our brothers and sisters. If anyone want to observe the fullness of faith in the OO church then one should visit the caves and remote monasteries of Ethiopia to witness the extreme ascetic practices, unwavering pursuit of spiritual perfection encompassing complete detachment from worldly desires, engagement in solitude, rigorous fasting, prayer, and self-discipline of the Ethiopian monks-characteristics reminiscent of the asceticism of the early desert Fathers of Egypt.

@junicornplays980

5 күн бұрын

​@@yenenehw I've seen your comments, on various videos and truthfully they (and comments from other OO accounts) tended to make me feel a bit hopeless and sad. But now that you have explained what you are seeing I understand you a bit better. I am mixed Black and Native American so I know what it's like to see members of your community continually idealize a foreign community while neglecting their own. But I actually thought the behavior of the Coptic priests in this video was impressive, and it caused me, (a Catholic, and thus a Chalcedonian) to look more into the Oriental churches. After doing so I realized that the OO are only holding to the Cyrillian definition, and thus are not wrong. The behavior you see as "feeble'' and "weak", I see as Christ-like and made me get to the truth of the situation. I was considering switching to EO, but thanks to the bad behavior of this EO priest and many online Orthodox I'm re-evaluating. While I know that not all EO are like this, it's troubling that it's from a priest, and what's even more troubling is the silence of other EO in response to it. (Catholics don't get a pass either, but I don't see much behavior like this towards the OO. They behave like this towards the EO.) By contrast all of the Oriental Orthodox people I have had encounters with have all been incredibly good Christian people. No, I'm not naive to believe that all OO are saints, but I think it's telling that there less bad behavior coming from the OO side. And the OO that do try and act like that have to be anonymous. That says a lot about the type of Christianity you have. I'm sorry to hear that you see some Ethiopian Orthodox doubting their faith. I've noticed that too. But I think there is a better way to go about resolving it, and it's not by acting as bad as the Chalcedoinians. The OO communion come from the oldest Petrine sees (Alexandria and Antioch). This is a fact and this is your leg to stand on. Whether they are conscious of it or not, the Chalcedonian churches find that threatening because it challenges their claim that they are the oldest church. Especially Constantinople, since it wasn't a Petrine see. Plus it's threatening that the Coptic church is growing both here in the US and abroad. Please educate us more about the Ethiopian traditions. I know many are thirsty for knowledge about the Ethiopian Orthodox, but a lot of it is in Amharic. On my part, I will speak up more whenever I see ignorance directed to the Oriental Orthodox.

@yenenehw

5 күн бұрын

​@@junicornplays980 ​I'm compelled to explain myself due to your honest, humble and brotherly response to me. This post is the first time I strongly criticized the Coptic OO priests. I once strongly criticized Deacon Daniel Kakish, a Syrian OO brother, for his lackluster debating performance against David Ehran of the EO. However, I witnessed a remarkable transformation in him, and I removed that comment 8 months ago. I now feel immense pride and give praise to Christ whenever I’ve the opportunity, witnessing the valiant defense of our OO faith by Daniel Kakish and his Lion's Den brothers. If you believe I’m being dishonest, I kindly request you to provide a single piece of evidence to prove me wrong. Apart from the two occasions I mentioned above, I’ve never criticized my OO fathers or brothers. The rest of my comments were directed towards EO content creators in defense of the OO tradition, clearly presenting our Christology supported by numerous quotes from pre-Chalcedonian Church fathers. My style of defense is tough, I call a spade a spade, so, the EO community feels shaken by it and expresses hostility towards me, they hate me. They view me as arrogant due to my unwavering conviction in OO Christology and my refusal to seek their acceptance. They label us as heretics, and in response, I highlight their errors and refer to them as heretics as well. I personally know a close brother who became greatly disturbed and filled with doubt regarding the OO Christology due largely to the lackluster response of our priests when confronted with EO priests and their Christology - it feels like the OO priests are pleading for acceptance, consequently, individuals like that brother begin to question the correctness of the OO Christology - they wonder why the OO priests, instead of addressing the differences b/n the two with firmness and conviction, resort to an almost begging-like response towards the EO. This is one of the reasons why I felt furious about the priests in this panel. Okay, I accept that their approach have been effective in your case, but not for a few others, so perhaps they need to strike a balance. Fortunately, Christ saved that brother through other means and he is now at ease. On a few occasions, I've defended Roman Catholics when they were under attack from Protestants, and by the grace of God, I was able to defend the belief in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Mary and other aspect of faith that are shared b/n the EOTC and Roman Catholic Church. In contrast to the EO, the Catholics display humility and refrain from labeling the OO as heretics. Therefore, you will never hear me referring to them as heretics, despite our differences in Christology. I appreciate the positive aspects of their faith, and I reciprocate with the same charity and respect. Privately, I offer prayers for their return to Cyrillian Christology. Regardless, believe me, I respect the EO and Roman Catholic Churches - although the EOTC is home to thousands of hermits whom I deeply desire to imitate their dedication to seclusion and rigorous spiritual struggle in pursuit of perfection, I acknowledge that similar men are found within the Roman Catholic and EO churches, and I hold them in high regard. I recognize the mysterious ways in which the Lord works, and it is through this understanding that I extend my respect to them. By the way, it has been just over a year since my graduation from school after 8 years of education, so, I primarily work double shifts to earn a substantial income, aiming to permanently return to my beloved Ethiopia within the next 5 to 6 years. Therefore, I sincerely apologize as it is impossible for me to dedicate myself fully to translating the teachings and traditions of the EOTC's faith, or to consistently engage with platforms like KZread and other media. I only have the opportunity to comment during breaks b/n patients or on my day of rest, which is Sundays. I'm glad and give praise to Christ for revealing the truth to you and guiding you to accept the authentic Cyrillian definition. God be with you brother and also I kindly request your prayers so that Christ may preserve me and make me a worthy servant of His upon my return to my country.

What a waste of 2 hours. Anyone that rejects an ecumenical council is a heretic and not in the fullness of the Churxh. If I reject the first or 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th,6th or 7th, I would become a heretic. There is nothing redeeming about only following the 1st three councils or only the 1st two like the Nestorians. You may be our Christian brothers but you are outside the Church. It’s very sad because you don’t have any idea how much you are missing out on being alienated. So much time has passed from Chalcedon, you have no clue. Ph.D holders cannot talk their way to a solution. These are matters of the Spirit and not the rational mind. The Holy Spirit guides the Church through the councils. In 451, the Holy Spirit guided the 630 Holy Fathers of Chalcedon to the correct understanding of Christology. We follow the Holy Spirit more than St. Cyril. Not everything a Saint ever did and says is correct. Saint doesn’t mean perfect like God is perfect. Saint Cyril kicked the Jews out of Alexandria but he is still regarded as a Saint when weighing the totality of his life i.e. the good he did with what he did and said that may have missed the mark. most copts understand implicitly that Saint means you follow every single thing that person ever said and did blindly. Pope Shenouda who many of you treat as a Saint spoke against theosis. Saints are people too and they can be wrong about things especially when taken out of context.

@MinaDKSBMSB

7 күн бұрын

Why do you reject Ephesus II then?

@csizzle24377

7 күн бұрын

@@MinaDKSBMSB Ephesus II?? You mean the council known as the Robber’s council that led to the Council of Chalcedon? If The Council of Chalcedon would have accepted Ephesus II as a legitimate council, I would accept it as legitimate. You see, the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, informs us what to accept; not our own rational mind. This requires discernment; not nationalistic pride. Coptic isn’t a soccer team like Ahly or Zamalek that you ride or die with. The True Church is what you ride or die with. The True Church transcends ethnicity and nationality.

@MinaDKSBMSB

7 күн бұрын

@@csizzle24377 the True Church declared Ephesus II an ecumenical council. What makes you believe the Holy Spirit wasn't there? Actually why did Chalcedon reinstate Ibas and Theodoret only to embarrassingly reverse their decisions at Constantinople II? Isn't that a sign of confusion? Is the Holy Spirit you believe in the author of confusion?

@junicornplays980

5 күн бұрын

It's not for random Internet commenters to declare people heretics, ya'll love throwing that word around too much.

Silly non chalcedonians.

@Joshua_Burdono

2 күн бұрын

Silly Chalcedonians

would love to see a debate with @therealMedWhite

@granthillman4998

19 күн бұрын

David Erhan has already been debated by Subdeacon Daniel Kakish (check out his KZread channel, the Lion's Den) and every single claim he and his EO clan have trotted out against us OOs over the past several years has been thoroughly debunked at this point. Definitely check out the recent series Sam Shamoun did with Lion's Den on his channel regarding the differences between Ephesus (431) and Chalcedon (451), and also other videos exposing the Nestorianism of Pope Leo.

@wedi-set577

19 күн бұрын

No debate, discussion!

@majesticrainmaker1460

18 күн бұрын

Daniel Kakish already made that, watch it, Check Lion's Den

@franthonymourad5870

18 күн бұрын

​@@majesticrainmaker1460Daniel and the crew are wonderful. God bless their work

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