Hello. I do not often leave a comment but today I shall. From what I have observed regarding your passion for scripture, it seems to be genuinely unbiased. For this reason I, and I’m sure that many others, both present subscribers and future ones, would love to hear from you regarding this issue. I addressed this topic some time ago myself and have concluded the same (that Revelation was written prior to AD 70); so, it would be exciting to get further perspective, especially from the original words as they were given to John.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks brother!

@jimmytiler5522

2 ай бұрын

Hes fooled you my friend he himself knows only lies.

Welcome to the fold, brother. I changed my view about 2 years ago. I was a futurist for 3 decades until I studied Revelation for myself.

I can't think of a topic I would rather hear you cover. I am also a partial preterist whose mind was changed by reading Gentry along with Gary DeMar and some R.C. Sproul. Thanks again for great content!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Sounds like fun!

I think it is often harder to unlearn what we have been taught so we can be open to what it really says than it is to learn something fresh. Most people that teach Revelation are simply teaching what someone else says. I would definitely try to follow up if you do more videos on Revelation.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I intend to do some!

I'd definitely love to hear what you find in the Greek. I think it takes great humility to try and study a book like this without bringing along preconceived ideas, but honestly wanting to hear what the text says.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Steve. I’m excited to get back into this one!

Yes please expand upon your research into Revelation. I am trying to look at eschatology with “fresh eyes” and follow the evidence.

This is very compelling information. Nevertheless, to me the best and most honest answer is ultimately I don't know. No one really knows when The Apostle wrote it and the author of The Revelation does not disclose when he wrote it. So that begs the question: Why? Not having the Apostle help me with the date, makes the Revelation even more of a book I need to approach very carefully.

Excited to hear more!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like fun! Thanks for watching

As an occasional viewer of your channel, yes I for one would like to hear your exegetical views on Revelation (also, why you are now persuaded as to its earlier dating).

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds good! Thanks for watching!

One thing to keep in mind is this: Pitting preterism against futurism is a false dilemma/dichotomy. Those who do so are generally oblivious to the very nature of Biblical prophecy; which can oftentimes have a dual fulfilment. Prophetic fulfilments (or types) of the past, *do not* necessarily negate the possibility of more complete (and perhaps more literal) fulfilments in the future. Besides, having everyone focus on the distant past or the unknown future-takes their eyes away from the present.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Brother! I always value your comments and thoughts. I keep running into your comments on other things that I follow, and I always find them thought provoking! I hope to receive more of your feedback as I go along, if you have time! Blessings!

@matthewmurphyrose4793

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews absolutely, you're welcome! Never thought a KZread comment could elicit such a wonderful compliment, thank you.

Yes would love to hear what you find in Revelation

Working through Revelation at the moment. (First time doing so in Greek properly - that is - with some level of comfort) Definitely interested in your thoughts.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Behold, they come quickly! 😂

I'd like to see more on this.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Lord willing, I will post more on it! Thanks!

Yes! thank you! this is very interesting! 🤓

That book and When the Man Comes Around: A Commentary on the Book of Revelation by Doug Wilson are my favorite books on Revelation.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Pastor Wilson’s book is a gem indeed!

@diegovalleperez3360

3 жыл бұрын

@Biblical Studies and Reviews Yes! Love the channel

Recently switched views to preterist post mill after having read He Shall Have Dominion, The Beast of Revelation and Paradise Restored. I am convinced that scripture supports this early writing of Revelation probably near AD 65 and would love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

I’m still unsettled on the millennium but it’s exciting to hear about your journey

Yes to your questions, I would love to hear any unbiased, in-depth view of Revelations.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I will do my best. :)

The book of Revelation use to be Greek to me until I was overwhelmed by pre 70 AD timeframes were exposed. Now Revelation flows just as it should and I enjoy reading it over and over. This is what John saw that was forthcoming and not 2000 years+ down the road. The 80-90 ad teaching has cost the Christian community dearly over the years and it is happening again today and as we speak. The pundits make a big deal out of Israel and that gets old after a while.We appear to be ignorant on the topic or outright misleading/dishonest. I believe everyone should at least look in to the 63 AD position and make their own decision. It is actually very exciting.

@customstoryteller

9 сағат бұрын

It used to be Greek to everyone until it was translated. 😂

Have been frustrated with the gymnastics of dispensationalism since a teenager. Recently have been studying more about other eschatological views. About halfway through this book right now.

Yes, because I havent come to a conclusion on Revelation myself, I dont wanna share anything that's unbiblical or contradictory.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I’ll be happy to share what I’m learning.

@theChadRamroq

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews I used to share with people about post tribulation rapture from what I learned from the steven anderson documentary "After the Tribulation". After reading more and listening to other perspectives, idk what to believe to be honest. I struggle with most minor Theological issues because of this and it keeps me from giving input or sharing the Bible with others because I take James 3:1 very seriously

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

@@theChadRamroq I can totally understand that. I think we should keep in my mind that the 12 disciples were sent out before they understood every little detail. Just a thought :-)

@theChadRamroq

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Thanks, that's a great perspective

@AtiShard16

3 жыл бұрын

@@theChadRamroq I believe in post-trib rapture

ASMR I have recently started to learn Greek I have chosen beginning Greek with markle and Plummer as my grammar you mentioned getting a flash card app is there a specific one you recommend right now I’m not going to do any online courses I’m going at it alone so I may need a stand alone app or maybe not that’s why I’m asking you thanks for your help

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Sure, here is one suggestion for you: app.memrise.com/course/5486107/beginning-with-new-testament-greek/

Yes, more revelation videos please!

I see more and more people who truly study God's word, getting away from Darbyism and into historism.

Brother consider doing a series of videos on Isaiah please! It's one of most quoted books in the Bible yet many don't teach it

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like fun! Maybe I can get to that as well. Isaiah is one of my favorite books.

@mirjanabosnjak8064

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Please do. I found only one decent playlist on Isaiah. There is a famine out there

I would be interested in the pros and cons for dating the book of revelation prior to the fall of Jerusalem.

@mirjanabosnjak8064

3 жыл бұрын

Who is woman clothed with sun? Start from there and compare Rev and OT

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I’ll try to get a video like that going

@Biblical Studies and Reviews Thanks so much. One question that has always been in mind is this: How can we defend the sufficiency of Scriptures, when we say that we require knowledge of a non biblical historical event in order to rightly interpret the book of Revelation? I mean, you must have absolute faith in 70AD as a historical event if you want to base your interpretation of the book of revelation on it. I mean, what if everything that we think we know about 70AD is a lie? which is at least a possibility taking into account that all of it is (fallen) human history. I am not sure if it makes sense. But what I mean is this... many brothers and sisters in the third world have no access to historical data, only the Bible. So, if we say or assume that for us to interpret correctly the book of revelation we need to have access/knowledge to/of the historical event of 70AD (non biblical history), then how can many brothers and sisters (who will never have access to this fact) rightly interpret a book in the Bible? How is the Scriptures sufficient then for a big part of the church of the LORD? Thanks so much for taking the time to read and answer. The LORD reigns!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I think the sufficiency of scripture regards salvation and Godliness. It gives every thing we need to know in order that we might live Godly lives and everything we need to know pertaining to salvation. However, Jesus gives prophecy about the fall of Jerusalem but we have no accounts of its fall in scripture. Much of the book of Daniel finds fulfillment in events which are found in history but are not described in scripture. Now whether or not Revelation applies to AD 70 is something I hope to explore in this series. Any way I hope that helps some.

Yes I’m interested, I would listen

I believe in the early date of Revelation based on Scripture (see verses listed). I believe the Apostle John was martyred around the time of Jesus’ coming in judgment in AD 70. Matthew 20:20-23; Matthew 16:28; John 21:21-23.

If it’s not self dating from within the Bible then does the date matter?

A professor in Bible Colege gave me a book by Gentry- "The Beast of Reverlation." and that book chaged everything for me. That book and Hank Hanagraff (Old Hnak) and other like Jeff Durban and others have have reshape my worldview on this topic. Thank you for this video.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Have moved to a post millennial position if you don’t mind me asking?

@PastorEdwinTheProverbiallife

2 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews yes, i have fully embraced the Postmil position.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

@@PastorEdwinTheProverbiallife interesting! I haven’t landed on a millennial position. I was staunchly premillennial but my reading has really made a significant challenge to this.

For sure I would like to hear what you find in your research. I definitely don’t believe the Book of Revelation has been 100% fulfilled.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with you there!

Would love your opinion on the book “Inmillennialism” by Michael Rogers.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

5 ай бұрын

I haven’t read that one.

Take note that Jesus specifically said that one of the seven churches that existed back then was to be spared from going through the tribulation. Which obviously means that the tribulation had to happen while those churches were still in existence. Meaning first century time-period for the tribulation to take place. MT 24 identifies the tribulation as being when Jerusalem would be destroyed by the Romans in 70AD. Therefore, REVs had to be written before then or it would make no sense at all!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Amen

Revelation has fascinated me since the 1967 Israeli War against Islam--when I was a teenager. Gentry's book is argued perfectly but I've been convinced of the pre-70 AD date since reading C.C.Torrey's Apocalypse in 1970 as a university freshman. [I have typed up the entire book and would love to send you a copy by snail-mail ! It's breath taking !] Followers of GENTRY are eagerly waiting the publication of his full verse-by-verse analysis of Revelation this month after sending it to the press in 2017! I am convinced that secular 'scholarship' on Revelation, pushing the date to the 90s, is a deliberate conspiracy against the TRUTH of Scripture, yet everyone from Jehovah's Witnesses to Roman Catholics take it in ! I am a 100% believer in Christ, also interested in this topic.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Here is my email address stephen.hackett@outlook.com. We can talk more there if you like.

@jd4evr2001

2 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Shall do ! Thank you

I am not persuaded. But, dates are provisional because our knowledge is incomplete.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I think a strong case can be made for either date. On balance I land on an early date

@christopherskipp1525

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Thank you for your feedback.

How to work out if a view wont be popular amongst scholars: Just ask "Does the view require assuming prophesy is real?" 🙈

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Too true!!

Yes do that topic! Read C. Marvin Pates eschatology (Eclectic/Holistic/omni). You'll find it most interesting.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion!

YES, please.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I’m surprised how much support is here for this. Thank you!

Definitely

I would like to hear the basis for your conclusion. Folks more learned than I have come down on both sides of that question.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Which conclusion, do you mean? Are you talking about the meaning of μετάνοια?

@johngeverett

2 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews the date the Apocalypse was written.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

@@johngeverett oh I’m sorry! I was thinking about another video that I made. Just a sec.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

Here are some of my reasons. kzread.info/dash/bejne/d3isj9GJh7ealdI.html I made a whole video on it.

In my mind eschatology fails if Israel’s timeline of Daniel 9:24 through 27 is not correctly interpreted

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 ай бұрын

I think that is a pivotal verse. How one lands on that will determine a number of things.

Yes please!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Lord willing, I shall. Thanks for watching!

I believe all the evidence points toward a writing date of about A.D. 95 on Patmos during the reign of Domitian. I am also a pre-millenialist and futurist. The seven churches represent the 7 church ages. We are now in Laodicia, near the end. The early 2nd century church was also pre-millenial and futurist, at least according to Iranaeus.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Ireneaus is the best reason to accept a late date for the book of Revelation, as well. Lord willing, I’ll be discussing him in more detail in the future. We could also add Justin Martyr to the list of premillennialists. However, Justin adds: "many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise" (ANF, vol. 1, p. 239)”. So I regard the testimony of some these earlier writers important and a strong point in favor of premillennialism, but in fairness I think we shouldn’t presume that everyone in the second century church held to premillennialism, because one of earliest witnesses is clear that did not. Personally I’m hoping to have to clarity for myself on the millennium. I’m not sure I have a strong stance at the moment. Though I had a premillennialist for most of my life.

@AtiShard16

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Yeah, not everyone in the early church agreed with pre-millenialism for sure. Early church history is very complicated. Iranaeus was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John, so the fact that he was a pre-millenialist is very significant to me.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

@@AtiShard16 I think that's a very reasonable position to take.

@frc744

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Regarding Justin's comment, many false doctrine arise quickly when Christianity started as you can find in the Bible itself: e.g. Judaizers, people saying the resurrection already happened (Hymenaeus and Philetus) , people saying there is no resurrection (1 Cor 15:12), Gnosticism, Nicolaitans, etc... We can't take the early writings as a tool to determine what was sound doctrine and what was not. The only thing that could be used for is to show that the false doctrine we are targeting had a post-apostolic development. But before doing that, we show what the sound and true doctrine is with the Bible alone, then we show historical evidences that the opposite false doctrine was a post-apostolic development, which again could be as early as the second century, or even earlier, as apostles themselves fought quick false doctrine development during their lifetime.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

@@frc744 amen!

Is it possible it could have been written late but written in a way to sound prophetic to fool people as being Devine prophecy?

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

Жыл бұрын

I can’t recall anyone saying that before. It’s not possible in my framework of understanding, but I could imagine someone having a low view of scripture making that claim.

I would love to here different takes on Revelation. As well as exegesis

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Ok sounds like fun!

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

@Christoferus the historicist position has fallen on very hard times. I think many hardcore futurist might be surprised to find out how many of the reformers were actually historicists. I have a book by Isaac Newton and his speculations in a historicist vein. I think it doesn't get a fair hearing anymore.

@frc744

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Stephen, many historicist are and were (passed away) still premillenial, awaiting the literal coming of Christ with great power and the promised resurrection, a resurrection as He did: with flesh and bones, and leaving an empty tomb. That was key in the apostolic message, as you can see in the book of Acts, and the Epistles.

Watching from Accra Ghana.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Wow! Thanks for watching!!

Is there interest in exegeting the book of Revelation? Yes! At the same time a wise person wrote that prophecy is best understood after it has been fulfilled.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Yes that tends to be the case. Thanks Jeremy!

Interested

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Eschatology is always interesting

Great vid, i grew up as a LDS, (dispensational-futurist)...found mainstream Chritsianity (for a short while) then Preterism...this book is in my library...to me Gentry goes soft in this book, as he still beleives in a yet future coming of the lord. It will be a complete vindication of the early veiw when "Isreal Only" doctine starts realy breaking out, as "hyper" Preterism (your words) is just a gateway drug to what many are calling the real truth. If it can be difinitivley be accepted that the eniterty of the biblical text, and tragectory was only about the redemtption and salvation of exculsivley the 12 tribes and not mankind, then and only then the position early position will be vindicated.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and your input!

Most Christians say 9 out of 10 havent a clue what Revelation has to say. Only one church the SDA is knowledgeable on this subject. Example who is where is America in chapter 13? I gave the chapter now tell me of the two beast which one is your country.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 ай бұрын

Hi Jimmy, I’m a bit surprised to find a Seven day Adventist watching my channel. But thanks for popping in.

I grew as a pretrib dispy. Now, I am futurist prewrath premillenial progressive dispy. What are your eschatological stances, Stephen? P.S. I like to claim we are all Pan-millenial (it all pans out in the end 🤪).

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

For most of my life, I was premillennial-futurist on Revelation. I’m not so sure anymore where I land on everything. Where I’m leaning is partial-preterism, but a brand of preterism which allows Revelation to speak into the future as well. I’m firmly a panmillenialist. I’m no longer sure where I land on the millennium.

If this book changed your views on the date of Revelation, then you will believe anything. He provides cursory-not substantive-evidence. Believe me, I could go either way on the date. Read “ The 10 Cesars”

Preterism is such a pit to climb out of. Everything is a foreshadowing of a future prophecy. If you can't see the prophecy unfolding around you then you're faith is not coming first in life.

Ok 2 things. Rev 17. There are kings. 5 is fallen ONE IS. The eighth and seventh is of. This MEANS the ONE IS meaning that the 6TH king of the 7 MOUNTAINS ROME is the time JOHN WROTE rev. Middle year of 66 AD.

@brettlovett6011

Ай бұрын

Right. And we know that the 6th Caesar of Rome was Nero who reigned 54 - 68 AD. Another clue is 666 (Rev. 13:18) - 666 adds up to Caesar Neron according to Hebrew gematria.

This why Gentry's eschatology is appealing due to his progressive covenantalism.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

His case for a pre-70 date…was so compelling to me.

@christopherskipp1525

3 жыл бұрын

You mean he is some kind of Calvinist?

Written 95 ad.

Brother, there are plenty of solid responses to Gentry's arguments out there.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve read some of the responses. By no means all. Thanks for watching brother! Feel free to add your input along the way!

Definitely from UK do it

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

An alternate viewpoint by Dr. Andy Woods : kzread.info/dash/bejne/m56l19itf5WrYJc.html

I have a concept for you to think over with this. It’s pretty simple too, I hope it helps. We are nearing 2000 years to the death of Jesus Christ now. No matter what scholar you talk to, they’ll essentially agree he died about 30-33 AD, I lean to 30 AD and a Wednesday death myself, but that’s erroneous to my point. The point is this, we know now that at minimum we’ve come this far since Jesus death. So consider this. The book of Revelation needs to be true for every single generation. So there’s going to be a lot of times where GOD ensures that events of the Revelation see a partial fulfillment for the mere sake of each and every generation believing that his word is truth. So then, consider that GOD needed the original Church to see his truth and consider that every generation since needed to be able to see his truth and you’ll start to realize that throughout history to now GOD has been ensuring that each generation sees a partial fulfillment and a possible sign that he’s right at the door and ready to bring us home. Then consider that maybe both things are true. That the Pretorist perspective should in fact not discount the inevitability of a complete fulfillment of all those things foretold to us. So far I truly believe every generation has only seen partial fulfillment’s. Ours might indeed see the full fulfillment, or we might just see more partial fulfillments. Either way, GOD shows us his word is true in every age. GOD Bless 🙏🏼

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that very much. I think some of the things I might say in this study will complement what you just said. Blessings!

@narrowistheway77

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Yes, I watched. I guess what I was trying to say was I think it ultimately doesn’t matter whether the Revelation came before or after the fall of Jerusalem because either way the events of the Revelation will ultimately see a full completion. I think these things are on a repeating cycle for those who know where in history to look for them until we see the ultimate completion of the Revelation where all the events will see a clear and concise completion, which won’t be good for the world but will ultimately be good for the believers 🙏🏼

@narrowistheway77

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews I have a side question for you about Septuagint Greek btw! It’s about Psalm 33:6 I have a ton of English Bible versions that I do comparisons with and although I can’t personally speak or read Greek/Hebrew I do have access to the online interlinear texts. So I guess my question is straight forward and simple. Do you think it’s talking about angels or literal stars in the sky? Because if it’s angelic hosts of heaven then it proves creation was creation for all and fully removes the notion that many have that angels and their fall precede creation, which seems absurd since the fall appears to be in progress until the end of time on a deeper Bible reading, and also I don’t think GOD would have been commenting that things were good during the creation repeatedly if things were already not good. Just a question I’m hoping the Greek Septuagint sheds more defined light on. Hebrew is very ambiguous, but Greek should be much more literal and purposefully discernible on the matter. GOD Bless 😁🙏🏼

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

@@narrowistheway77 I will check it out when I get back in my office and let you know

@narrowistheway77

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Thank you 😁👍🏼

It's either Nero or Domitian. Seems more likely Nero.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

2 жыл бұрын

It does to me too. I’m hoping to make a video soon arguing for the early date of Revelation

The preterist hermeneutic has some fundamental flaws, not the least of which is the view on the temple in Revelation because it fails to take into account the fact that when you look at all of the passages that speak of the temple, there's no possible way this is referring to the 2nd temple. First off, it lacks sound reasoning to say that one must have still stood because of a temple being measured in the vision shown to John. This is because Ezekiel was also shown a temple starting in Ezekiel 40 which was years after the first temple had already been destroyed, and yet a temple was being measured in the vision. It clearly wasn't the first temple since it was already destroyed, but applying the preterist version of reasoning one would have to say that this vision had to have been received while the first temple still stood. This was shown to Ezekiel 25 years into captivity (ch 40, verse 1). He went into exile around 597 B.C., and the first temple was destroyed in 586 B.C. only 11 years later. Take an honest reading of Revelation 3:12, 7:15, 14:15, 14:17, 15:5, 16:1, 16:17. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.'- Rev 3:12 Is Jesus saying that those who overcome will literally become pillars in the 2nd temple? Obviously not. What about metaphoric pillars in the 2nd temple? And what about He shall go out no more? New Jerusalem? Clearly this is not set in the earthly Jerusalem. '“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.' from Rev 7:14-15 Those who went through the Great Tribulation are all here literally serving God round the clock in the 2nd temple in Jerusalem? Even if they were to all fit, which they wouldn't, you need to take into account just where they all come from as it says in verse 9. 'After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands' Rev 7:9 Key word here ALL nations, ALL tribes, ALL peoples, ALL languages. This was not in the first century A.D., because the Neronic persecution was centered in Rome. It did not extend to all parts of the Roman Empire, let alone outside of it. 'And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”' Rev 14:15 Was this angel literally coming out of the 2nd temple? Please look up each reference and study them. How were these definitely not referring to the 2nd temple but in Revelation 11 somehow it was? Have preterists even read chapter 11 in its entirety? Rev 11:1 "Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD, the altar, and those who worship there." (emphasis added) and from Rev 11:19 "Then the TEMPLE OF GOD was opened IN HEAVEN, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple." (emphasis added again) The scene was set in Heaven, not the earthly Jerusalem. The ark of the covenant was lost after the Babylonian destruction of the first temple in 586 A.D., which is enough all by itself to poke a giant hole through this preterist interpretation in Revelation. This was in no way, shape, or form referring to the 2nd temple in earthly Jerusalem which was Ichabod for some 40 years after the cross and no longer forgave sins with the sacrifices that were being made during that period.

@brettlovett6011

Ай бұрын

There are two temples mentioned in Revelation - one in Heaven and one on earth. The one talked about in Revelation 11 is apparently the one on earth because verse 2 places it in the "holy city" that shall be "tread down 42 months". Verses 8 and 12 verify that the "holy city" in this passage is earthly Jerusalem. If that temple is still standing while John is writing then it has to be before 70AD, unless you assume that John is looking thousands of years into the future to some hypothetical future temple. But that's unlikely because the book of Revelation is about things that "must quickly take place" (Rev. 1:1).

@JohnnyDoe1012

29 күн бұрын

@@brettlovett6011 you didn't address a single point that I made. Everything I wrote disproves the possibility of the interpretation of the temple description referring to an earthly one. "The one talked about in Revelation 11 is apparently the one on earth because verse 2 places it in the "holy city" that shall be "tread down 42 months" Except the math on this is an inexcusably pathetic excuse for an interpretation. Jerusalem was under siege for about 6 or 7 months in 70 A.D., over in the same year it began! Not even close to 42 months. The war itself lasted for about 48 months by some estimates, if the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is the ending point and 66 A.D. is the starting point. Some say it officially ended in 73 A.D with the fall of Masada. So either way, any attempt to manipulate the definition of a city being under siege or the math falls drastically short. The Bible doesn't make mistakes. "If that temple is still standing while John is writing then it has to be before 70AD, unless you assume that John is looking thousands of years into the future to some hypothetical future temple. But that's unlikely because the book of Revelation is about things that "must quickly take place" (Rev. 1:1)." Lots to unpack there, not the least of which is all the ways it's impossible for any earthly temple to meet the descriptions of any temple described in Revelation. I refer you to my previous comment which you completely ignored. Did you see Christ return yourself in the first century or did someone tell you about this supposed return? I know I sure didn't, and neither did you. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24 vs 23-28 that if anyone has to tell about about it, then it wasn't Him. There's also no evidence that His return will be invisible, any more than lightning is invisible or the people who saw Christ ascend into Heaven 'saw' Him ascend invisibly (see Acts 1). 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. He says repeatedly 'DO NOT BELIEVE IT' if someone alleges that He has returned. That's called a false christ. The false Jesus of full preterism. Again, is lightning visible or invisible? Did those who saw Him ascend in Acts 1 see Him with their own physical eyes? (look up the Greek. It means visible. Not to be spiritualized, not to be interpreted as 'invisible') This supposed invisible return of Jesus teaching is utterly absurd.

@JohnnyDoe1012

29 күн бұрын

@@brettlovett6011 and besides the whole temple issue, the post-70 A.D. dating of the book of Revelation renders all preterist thought null and void. For over 400 years after John died there were a large number of debates and schisms in the early church, but none concerning whether or not it was Nero who exiled John to Patmos instead of Domitian. This is extremely significant. The earliest claim for a Neronic dating was comparable to a hypothetical and spurious claim that the Pilgrims came to America on a ship called the Junedaisy instead of the Mayflower over 400 years ago. How seriously would this get taken today after such a large gap of time? The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd. The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the Neronic date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot. In addition to Hegessippus (who, notably, wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters). There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. Also, what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels. The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to go against the overwhelming consensus of the past 2000 years? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 54 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all in light of the historicity of the late date. The indefensible early date theory is full of enough holes to sink preterism to the bottom of the Dead Sea.

@brettlovett6011

28 күн бұрын

@@JohnnyDoe1012 I addressed what you were saying when I wrote that there are two temples in Revelation. I agree with you that there is a Heavenly Temple mentioned in Revelation. But the one in chapter 11 is in Jerusalem - the holy city "where also our Lord was crucified" (v. 8). What you wrote may prove that there is a Heavenly Temple but it does not disprove that there is an earthly temple also mentioned. The return of Christ during the Jewish war was not invisible. Josephus records the event in his book Wars VI - 5 - "For before sunset throughout all parts of the country everywhere throughout Judea, chariots were seen in the air and armed battalions hurtling through the clouds and encompassing the cities". Also Tacitus in his Histories, Book 5, v.13 - "In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armor. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the temple." I believe these are historical records of the return of Christ with his messengers during the Jewish War. It must be, because the Lord said "Truly truly I tell you, this generation will not pass until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34). These accounts also fulfill Daniel 12:1. That was a local return focused on Israel, not His final return, when the entire world will be destroyed with fire (2 Peter 3:4 -10). Then he will sit on His great white throne and judge all the resurrected dead from EVERY nation (Matthew 25, Rev 20).

@brettlovett6011

28 күн бұрын

@@JohnnyDoe1012 Concerning the dating of the book of Revelation, I put more stock in John's account than in the church fathers. And John gives several clues as to the dating of the book: 1. 666 = Caesar Nero. 2. The temple is still standing. 3. Rev. 17:10 - The 6th Caesar (the one that "is") would be Nero.

I think it would be a good idea. I think your subscribers would like it, and I bet the videos would get a lot of views and comments-helping your channel. Just be prepared to watch the gloves come off in the comments.... The Christian KZread community can be vicious (sadly...)

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I’m actually surprised how many people are saying they are interested. And yes I’m guessing this will bring out some strong feelings 😂