I think the main advantage of Hymn of Healing is that it allows the bard to do a lot of out-of-combat healing.

@RyanKingofAnything

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Hymn of Healing compares to Lay on Hands, not to Heal

@PlaneswalkerTARDIS

3 жыл бұрын

It's even better! It heals 8/level as opposed to Lay on Hands 6/level. In combat, they play different rolls, but this is really good outside of combat.

I highly disagree with what you said about the bard spellbook. I feel like you might not have been so negative of it just said they get 1 more signature spell of any level per day. Yet it does even more than that. And it's one of the only reasons that characters might find spellbooks that aren't on Wizards. But more importantly the learning if extra spells means you can add a lot of circumstancial spells to your book as well. Such as a raise dead spell that you don't need to occupy your repertoire every day. Or the reverse with say, only knowing invisibility as as 4th level spell and bring able to make it signature to cast *down* rather than always have invisibility for infiltration. The spellbook offers a lot of options and is great for rounding out your repertoire without dedicating to specific niche spells.

@decimusdrake5791

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. The ability to have a bonus spell/signature spell that you can switch out each day on a spontaneous spell caster with a limited variety of spells is really good.

I've lost count of how many times counter performance has saved my weak-willed fighter from some nasty mental shenanigans. Very useful!

I really don't understand your stance on bards in this video. You keep saying that they're not jacks of all trades, but then describe feats that give them a lore skill they can use as literally any other like skill, adding their level to untrained skill checks and letting them use trained and even expert actions for those skills, being able to use performance for all charisma skill checks and giving access to the feats that require those skills to be trained or higher and getting not only assurance but automatic knowledge for all recall knowledge skills. As far as I can see it, this makes up more than enough for the lack of extra skill training and makes the 2e bard a much better jack of all trades than the DnD 5e bard. Then I have to disagree with your seeming dislike for the warrior muse. To me it just seems silly to expect a subclass for a spellcasting to make them as effective in martial combat as a martial class. If this was the case then there'd be almost no reason to play a martial class at that point, as then playing a bard would be just as good a playing, say, a swashbuckler but you get full spellcasting as well. I also really disagree with you saying some of the 20th level feats are underwhelming, specifically the one that makes all your spells signature spells. The bard is the only class that can do this, making it unique and special enough already, but combine that with the feats that give extra spell slots as well as spells from other domains, this makes the bard the most versatile spellcaster of them all, in my opinion at least. Anyways, great video as always, just felt like sharing my own feelings on the bard.

@Frog_Wizard801

5 ай бұрын

Actually really interesting and helpful to hear this perspective

@joshsmit2890

5 ай бұрын

does anyone know why he has such a distain for bards in general?

I’d really love to see a return to this video and reassessment of the class. A lot of the criticism thrown at the class doesn’t seem warranted at all?

The bard in one of the games I run every combat turn one "inspire defense> inspire competence> Harmonize" and I can say it is pretty insane, the group essentially is a level higher than they actually are aside from spell levels and feats. Add to that the spell soothe and he is essentially able to buff the party by an entire level for combats. The fighter has only gone down in two fights through the entirety of Age of Ashes thanks to the Bard.

The Escoteric Polymath line of feats is AMAZING too if you want to be a Caster bard. You essentially end up with a spellbook that allows you to swap in spells from ANY magical tradition. Additionally every spell that you have in your repertoire is a signature spell. It gets crazy and I love it.

@nolanstrife7350

2 жыл бұрын

What?.. What?!. Is this for real?!.. I didn't know bards could learn any spell in the game. And upon this realisationy head hurts so bad...

Witches also get focus cantrips with their hex cantrips.

Versatile Performance isn't a jack of all trades feat itself, but it does free up three skill training slots for the Polymath at first level.

One thing about Warrior Muse: since it gives Trained in Martial Weapons, you can get Marshal from the start, then mix and match different buffs. You could say open with a Stance, follow up with a Marshal Action like Steel Yourself! or Cadence Call, and end with an Inspire Courage. Or you could do something like Triple Time and Coordinated Charge if your allies need a bit of extra speed to close in. Or you could use both Courageous Advance and To Battle to allow two different allies to Stride as a reaction, not to mention if an enemy is already surrounded, you have two different ways to make an ally attack with a reaction. Plus, while Forced Cadence is strong, it’s once a minute, so Allegro let’s you keep up the quickened status on an ally after using Forced Cadence. To me, it seems like the Marshal Warrior Bard (even without the Free Archetype variant rule) can let you give some silly buffs and allow you to move around allies or let them attack with their reactions a lot more than they’d normally be able to.

"There are so many c-words!" *Australians:* Heavy breathing

Coming back to this, bard in 2e really does capture all the flavours I want. Of course I’m going to miss being the most busted (imo) support class in 5th edition when my current campaign ends but the maestro is everything I want for a mystical npc (bards as important npcs are my favourites) or just a player character in general

The way I usually play Call and Response extends the spell for ALL of the allies affected by the spell. Fun thing there is that you can use it to juggle composition effects or cast a spell while your ally sustains your song for you. It can be fun in roleplay too. :)

Dirge of Doom is amazing when paired with a Rogue using Dread Striker considering anything that is Frightened is also Flat-Footed against their attacks. It's one of the few times I could see someone pick up the Multiclass Bard Archetype and spending a level 12 feat on Dirge of Doom. You can basically be the person whistling down the road inspiring fear in all of your enemies.

@christophergibson4429

3 жыл бұрын

Me and a friend are thinking about doing just this

With Hymn of Healing, I think you are missing something. You can heal, out of combat, 8 hp, EVERY 10 minutes. No spell slots are used up.

@rabidhellhound9714

Жыл бұрын

But that's pretty low compared to a medicine check for the same length of time but no focus points spent.

@itsmefirefox

Жыл бұрын

Why only do one of these if you do both one person fixes x then one person gives y a bump so they don't bleed out.

I never liked Bards in D&D but the Pathfinder 2 version is excellent. I am now inspired to play one!

I would have liked for you to give an example of how a bard will typically act each turn in combat. Or how it combines spells and abilities outside of it. Bards are far more complicated now and I'm only half understanding them, even after watching this video.

"Jack of All Trades" bards are still totally a thing when you get Versatile Performance, Bardic Lore, or Eclectic Skill from their muses. It definitely helps you spread those skills around! Bardic Lore is especially great as you get a special Lore that you're trained in that can be used for anything. Later on when you upgrade them to Eclectic Skill which lets you add your level modifier to all skills AND attempt things that normally require you to be trained. Once you level up your Occultism skill to Occult that feat upgrades and allows you to attempt things that normally require you to be an expert too! Totally fits within the theme of the Jack of All Trades. Also, Focus Cantrips are now also on the Witch class too. They're great spells!

@Porphyrogenitus1

3 жыл бұрын

This is true, but where he's right is a Bard is no longer really a "Gish" - ymmv as to whether in the 3X system it pulled off Gishing effectively (that depended in no small part on build), but PF(and 3X) always rewarded specialization more than versatility (at least in "builds" - again, one's milage may vary as to what actually ended up being effective in tabletop play. For example, tier lists often ranked classes near the bottom that did just fine in actual gameplay at the level almost all campaigns played at, but I digress). To make Bards a full caster meant making them not as good at fighting or at being a rogue-substitute. Even though you're correct that with the right feat choices, a Bard is still effective at JoTing in skills and lore (again, depending on the difficulty of the checks in question, and also the spell choices). You *can* make a Bard that is: Jack of All Trades and Master of One, which is arguably an improvement on the old chassis of being okay at everything (Jack of All Trades and master of none, except through very special build choices). PF1E Bards were among my favorite since they finally could come into their own - again, with the right choices (not easymode). But I think this is an improvement overall. You just won't find yourself gishing, which I miss a lot. (Yes, not even with the new-ish Warrior Muse, since your weapon skills will lag badly).

@Gloomfall

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Porphyrogenitus1 I will happily disagree with you about Bards not being a Gish character option. They've got full casting as well as up to Expert Proficiency with Medium Armor and a large number of weapons (All Martial Weapons as well with the Warrior Muse). It doesn't need to have as good of martial progression as a martial character in order to make it a decent Gish. You can combine a number of its class features to make sure that AC penalties to the enemies and attack bonuses to you and your allies are always being applied to help even the playing field, and you have plenty of useful buffs, debuffs, and attack spells.

I'm usually biased against casters but with the remaster looking at bards. This really helps me understand it even if I know some things are changing. Warrior muse seem a lot better now.

I would agree with you if Pathfinder 2e had not created some of the coolest social feats ever. But a bard can use versatile performance to take all of those social feats while still doing their bard thing. it makes bards really quite good at pretty much everything except melee combat, I agree with the martial performer archetype of bard though. it is garbage.

Just built a bard up to 20 to learn the system, and i agree that the general and skill feats clunk the build if you dont have a vision for the endstate.

I mean, between Bardic Lore, Versatile Performance, and Eclectic Skill, they can be a fantastic skill monkey. They don't have the level of skill feats of a Rogue or Investigator, sure, but they can do a little of everything decently well. Since they can grab any muse later on with Multifarious Muse, they're pretty open.

0:00 intro 1:18 discussion of non-feat class features 8:35 1st Level Feats 12:47 2nd Level Feats 21:37 4th Level Feats 23:51 6th Level Feats 28:03 8th Level Feats 33:09 10th Level Feats 38:03 12th Level Feats 40:28 14th Level Feats 43:35 16th Level Feats 45:17 18th Level Feats 48:41 20th Level Feats 54:35 Final thoughts and outro

For True Hypercognition it is also useful because one Recall Knowledge check only gives you one piece of information. After that you can make more Recall Knowledge checks (each one at a higher difficulty) to lear more.

I am curious to why you say the warrior bard sucks. The Warrior bard is actually pretty good. Especially for highly aggressive bards, and bards whom took an martial archetype. For a battle bard, the idea is less of focusing on the bard as a support unit. But making the bard into a force multiplier. Alone, you can't do a whole lot. But with others, you can accomplish pretty massive feats that you cannot normally do. Additionally. The large majority of the spells that the bard has do not require two hands, or any hand to be empty in fact. Most need only one hand. If it requires a somatic component, it says that your hands do not need to be empty, which means you can flourish the weapon in your hand as the somatic. Which means you're able to use a Greatsword and still cast spells as it is a free action for you to simply release the weapon for a moment. For example, you maintain the ability to cast the Shield Cantrip while both your hands are full with a pike, greatsword, glaive, halberd, what have you. You can approach, Color Spray, and then smash them into the ground with a Great Club. etc. This allows you to strongly abuse features other classes can get on the fly. Fighter's Aggressive Block without a proper shield, combat maneuvers involving shove, grab, trip, disarm, etc. Finally. Bard in my experience of playing it for several months, works best under a more frantic playstyle... where you put everything the bard can do to use, and combine them for effect. When combined with my spells, I found myself being able to hold my own quite well with the martial classes. I transformed my bard into what I endearingly called Son of Honor. He was a Bard with Champion Archetype.

The way 2e math works, it's hard to make "okay at everything" work. You said yourself that the Warrior muse being ONE proficiency level behind barbarians and rangers is "garbage." How much granularity were you really expecting here? Half a proficiency rank?

@anyoneatall3488

3 жыл бұрын

Why?

@jhonea6535

3 жыл бұрын

@@anyoneatall3488 so say they did get the same proficiency progression as other martials. Suddenly they're strictly better because they ALSO have full spell progression. And inspire courage on top of that. Which is kind of the gag here. A +1 from inspire is literally the equivalent of half a proficiency step.

Great video! A lot of good insights on one of my favorite classes in PF2. On a complete side note, I think your interpretation of Studious Capacity is a little off (either that or mine is.) The way I read it, it allows you to cast 1 extra spell per day at any level other than your highest spell level, rather than one for every spell level. Still pretty solid, as it can potentially be an extra 9th level spell at top levels, but significantly less punchy than it would be if it were potentially 9 extra spells.

@yoshiman9521

3 жыл бұрын

yea i agree with this interpretation cuz it says one spell per day.

The bard in my campaign makes good use of Inspire Courage and Inspire Defense. His +1 has helped negate crits or even hits many, many times.

We need a Nonat "It's not great" hat.

So looking at it now Fatal Aria is Identical to power word kill cast at 10th level

I can see where you're coming from on the idea that its kind of a let down on the combat proficiency. The idea that I have though is that they are still spellcasters. Spellcasters in general are very strong in most aspects. Give a spellcaster the ability to smack a fighter or barbarian on more equal footing and where are the weaknesses? Thats the problem I had with D&D 5e bards, where they were literally able to do anything and they only grew stronger the higher levels you go. With 2e, they are still more skill proficient and more melee able then the other spellcasters(oracles I think are worthy opponents but they're not getting it from purely physical means).

@stephhanley3167

3 жыл бұрын

I think that any improvement to their combat proficiency comes online way to late. Having their weapon proficiency increase to expert before 13th level would have been nice; even if it never went beyond that. That way, it could allow the bard to then dip into more combat focused archetypes. I don't think that the Bard needs more than expert proficiency in weapons, but it should get them sooner.

@RyanKingofAnything

3 жыл бұрын

The fighter multiclass archetype only ever gets you to expert in weapons. The warrior muse saves you a level 12 feat over going fighter for weapon access.

@Captainpigraven

3 жыл бұрын

@@stephhanley3167 Their weapon proficiency increases at 11th-level, not 13th. I agree, that's still pretty late. However, think of it this way.. The Bard doesn't lose any spellcasting even by taking the Martial Muse/Martial Performance feat. They're a full-fledged Level 10 caster, at the same progression as all the other level 10 casters. They can use their spells in addition to their Performance feats, etc. But with that Martial Performance feat they can now use any martial weapon they want as early as..level 1. Tired of the Longsword with your 1d8 damage die? Pick up a Greatsword and swing that 1d12 weapon around. Again, they don't lose any regular Bard features. So they're still casting spells, and they're still handing out 1-round buffs like candy to anyone within 60 feet of them. Speaking of spells and level 11 shenanigans... Level 11 is when they can start casting Heroism in its sixth-level slot. That's a +2 to Status to attack, lasting ten minutes per cast. So they automatically bump up to Expert in their weapon, and then receive a +2 status bonus. That +2 status bonus effectively works as an increase in weapon proficiency to Master, something all the other main martial characters (save Fighter) won't get for another two levels. And that's just assuming you stopped using Inspire Courage--which you were probably starting to hit the +2 mark pretty regularly using Inspire Heroics--in favor of another Cantrip Focus Spell, like Inspire Defense, Dirge of Doom, or even Triple Time. Of course, if you took some of the Warrior Muse feats, then at level 11 you're probably using Inspire Courage. That way you're granting that +2 to your allies nearly each time, so you can use Courageous Assault, handing out free Melee strikes as reactions to an ally of your choice. I feel like people just assume the Martial-based Bard is suddenly supposed to replace the fighter in sheer martial damage, despite the fact the Bard is still a 10th-level caster class. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

I don't like the fact, that Nonat always treats dice like they roll max damage. "This spell heals 5 damage in a single action. But if you compare it a heal, which can heal up to 8 damage in a single action, it seems a little weak. A d8 statistically heals/ deals 4.5 damage. A d4 heals/ deals 2.5 and a d12 heals/ deals 6.5 on average. Please stop comparing flat values to maximum values. Compare them to average values please. 2d6 does not always roll a 12. Most likely it will roll 7. 13:20 A level 1, 2-action heal, will heal on average 12-13 hit points. If you compare that to 24, that almost double.

You definetly can MAKE the jack of all at least as far as skill points go with ancestry and int

Hi Nonat! 👋

Let's go deep dive halfling!!!

I'm pretty sure Studious Capacity only gives you one extra spell slot total, not one extra spell slot per level. It says "you can cast one spell per day" not mentioning per level.

I really love bards, and have been playing them since the AD&D. The 2E bard really does get away from the jack of all trades motif of other editions. In 5E, they are 9th level spell casters, but they have features that let them dabble in everything. In 5E, they can grab spells from other traditions, gain bonuses to skills they aren't proficient with, have limited weapon proficiencies, and can use light armor and shields. The fact that the Warrior Muse doesn't grant expert weapon proficiency at level 7 and master at level 13 is insane! The raise a shield feat needing inspire courage is so dumb! I feel like all of the Warrior Muse's feats were all just diet versions of its level 16 capstone; essentially making the entire feat tree nothing but feat tax! The worst part is that those feats basically just replace each other instead of expanding upon each other. Also, where was the Warrior Muse feat that gives you medium armor proficiency?! The Maestro Muse feels the most reminiscent of Pathfinder 1E's bard features, like Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, and others. Inspire Defense is so stupidly broken. Seriously, why isn't Bardic Lore a stinking class feature for the Bard? I do like that they gave the Bard so many reaction abilities; those were a sorely needed improvement from PF1. I like compositions being cantrips, and doing away with rounds of Bardic Performance. It does make me think that Lingering Performance should have just been made into a class feature, with how tied compositions are into the class as a whole. The Maestro Muse definitely should be the muse that gets to improve it specifically, but it just makes more sense to me as a class feature. I think that the Bard needed something else to really help out with its jack of all trades tradition. Something like getting two extra skill feats, and two additional general feats would have given it something unique. They also got a feat specifically tied to Ritual Magic. I would have liked them to get a class feat that lets them learn one or two rituals. Being the only class that gets Ritual Magic baked in would have at least given them something different and unique. Since the Sorcerer gets access to the Occult spell list, Occult spells cannot be a defining feature of the Bard; they need more. The Bard's class features are so disgustingly bare bones. Even the Fighter gets more! If this is what they did to the Bard, I am dreading how they will treat the Skald from the PF1 Advanced Class Guide! I wanted the Warrior Muse to armor up and then take the Martial archetype. Unfortunately, the Warrior Muse just falls flat.

Here's a dumb use of pied piping, they gain the minion trait if they crit fail, you could on a subsequent turn use final sacrifice targeting that creature that just became your minion, killing them instantly and exploding them for basically a fireball, it affects all creatures within 20ft and deals 6d6 fire damage and it's only a 2nd level spell Works best of course if the target would normally be a hostile enemy as it removes them from the combat entirely and you don't have to worry about them being smacked out of your control

Considering there are 2 feats for untrained skills Untrained improvisation which gives bonus or the human feat clever improviser a jack of all trades can be done by anyone now. Bards can get bardic knowledge which is a useful thibg

I suddenly want to play a Bard

The warrior bard muse isn't awesome by itself, but has some great exclusive feats for manipulating the battlefield.

So I'm converting my current campaign from 5e to PF2e and I have a group of NPC adventurers that are kind of like rivals to the group of PCs. One of the NPCs is a Bard from 5e. I recreated him in 2e using the Oracle archetype as their free archetype dedication.....would really like your opinion on if you think this is viable?

Fascinating performance.... what does it do? I am confused about incapacitated

Bard with Enigma-Fox muse

Warrior muse is a lot better as a choice with the bard archetype, as it gives martial weapons on top of skills and a couple occult cantrips.

where was the leftover pizza from? Edit: and was it good?

Bardic Lore is fun with Dubious Knowledge.

Am I the only one not wanting to ruin the only Warrior Muse feat liked in that video? He says "when your ally critically hits", but the feat says "when you critically hit" which is always at least 10% less probable than your fighter. 20% if you're that high in levels since just one level after that the fighter will get legendary with one weapon group. And you get just expert at the same level.

inspire competence is actually quite good

17:43 Didn't you play D&D 3.5, Nat? Inspire Competence has been around for a bit.

I mean at least you don't have to CONCENTRATE on Heroism

Esoteric polymath should be one additional spell or spells equal to your spellcasting level. If you can cast level 9 spells you take a level 6 and a level 3 spell. Or level 8 and level 1. That way it's not game breaking. A 4th level spellcaster could take 2 level 2's or 1 level 1 and a level 3 or a Level 4.

@BakerLegate-zh6bh

11 ай бұрын

Sounds like te name of a prog rock band lmao

To be fair, a bard could easily take untrained improvisation, which I feel like should just be renamed Jack of All Trades and made a Bard Class Feat.

The warrior muse is a garbage trap then?

@stephhanley3167

3 жыл бұрын

Yes

@Gloomfall

3 жыл бұрын

Warrior Muse isn't entirely a trap if you want to play a very combat focused bard. I'd typically recommend going down either the Sentinel archetype or one of the other combat focused archetypes if you do it. I think one thing that most people don't think about is that there are no full casters in the game that have higher than Expert proficiency in Armor or Weapons. The primary reason to take Warrior Muse is because you want access to the Warrior Muse class feats. Song of Strength Courageous Advance Defensive Coordination Courageous Opportunity Courageous Assault Triumphant Inspiration Those feats allow you to get a lot of combat support abilities. Song of Strength isn't too great... but.. Courageous Advance lets you take an action along with your Inspire Courage to let an ally use their reaction to Stride.. getting them into a potentially much better position. Defensive Coordination lets you use an action along with your Inspire Defense cantrip to have both you and another ally raise your shields. Courageous Opportunity basically gives you the Attack of Opportunity feat so long as you're under the effective of Inspire Courage. Courageous Assault lets you use an action along with your Inspire Courage to allow an ally affected by it to use their reaction to Strike an enemy gaining potentially a free attack. Triumphant Inspiration is probably one of the best ones. If you critically hit an enemy with a melee weapon or unarmed combat you can cast any one of your composition cantrips as a free action. The Warrior Muse is all about manipulating the action economy for you and your allies to gain an advantage in combat.. It's just not immediately apparent.

You totally skipped trained in unarmed attacks

Comment for the algorithm

47:13 So, at level 18 the PF 2e bard subclass can do what is the core of the DnD 5e Bard. Yeah, now I understand why you initially said that you don't like it.

please make extra content during the elections. We need the distraction

I have to admit, I'm completely lost with your take on the Bard in this video. You're biggest gripe seems to be that they aren't Jacks of All Trades. And yet, pretty much every feat they have offers evidence to the contrary. If you want I'll list them, but you basically cover them all. I don't know if you're downplaying certain feats on purpose, or simply don't see how they are useful? Whether you find a particular feat to be boring doesn't mean it isn't versatile or mechanically excellent. You expect a spontaneous-based class--whose whole schtick is limited spells but the ability to cast what they know as the situation arises--to offer more than one spell per day to freely swap out with a learned spell at level 2? Esoteric Polymath is extremely versatile, letting the Bard take a page from the Wizard as far as the benefits of being prepared. This actually synergizes well with Bardic Lore and just game knowledge in general, understanding what you need to prepare for a coming battle or unique situation. And the entire Esoteric line of feats only gets even more versatile as the Bard increases in level. Heck, at level 20 with Ultimate Polymath, you can do something no other caster can do. And you can take that feat without having invested in any of the other Polymath feats. Inspire Competence - While it's still a pretty solid out of combat ability, it appears this no longer helps certain Athletics skill checks like Grapple and the like during combat. It's a shame. This is classic Paizo 1e meddling that actively nerfed things that didn't need nerfed, and thus reduced the amount people who used them. Been knee deep in PF2e campaigns since its release, with plenty of Bards (and other classes) aiding in this way, and not once has it seemed overpowered. In my opinion, these are the types of moves Paizo makes that can rot out the fun. They should be ashamed of themselves and their families. Warrior Muse doesn't suck. And Martial Performance and its chain of feats doesn't suck. The base feat allows the Bard to start swinging around a greatsword, which takes the highest damaging weapon a Bard can typically use (Longsword, 1d8) and raises it up to a possible 1d12. Expert proficiency is the highest weapon proficiency any full caster reaches, including the Druid and the Cloistered Cleric. In addition, the scaling is the same as the Druid and Cloistered Cleric. The main benefit of the Warrior Muse is access to some really niche, but really nice combat feats that still retain the flavor of a Bard. After all, a Bard isn't likely to ever be the best martial character in the group. It's a support character at it's core. And the feats Warrior Muse provides stay true to that core. Are there archetypes that provide better combat feats for a Bard? Sure. Just as there are some archetypes that provide, overall, better combat support feats. But sometimes that means burning feats on things that you don't want. The Marshall archetype, for example, has a dedication feat that is subpar for a Bard. You're likely to already be trained in Diplomacy and Intimidation if you're looking to raise your battle prowess. So the free skill increase to Expert in one of them is nice. But the 10-foot save aura on Fear effect saving throws is dwarfed by the 60-foot range of Inspire Courage. Anyways... a player who chooses Warrior Muse understands that they're still keeping the most powerful aspects of the Bard, that precious 10-th level caster progression and powerful combat support. Level 10 casters, by default, are diverse and provide their own version of jack-of-all-trades. All the Warrior Muse and it's chain of feats does is allow the Bard to be a better support martial in the thick of the battle. To gain higher weapon proficiency and earlier access to it, the Bard would need to be stripped down a bit in casting ability. That's a fair idea, but at that point wouldn't it be better just to play a Cleric Warpriest? FWIW, nobody should take the Warrior Muse as their initial muse anyway, given that I still agree that from a Skills perspective, the Bard is lacking. I love Bardic Lore, and it is incredibly powerful with Lore on any subject, but... given how useful but specific Versatile Performance is, I think it should have been rolled into the actual Bard chassis and not required the expenditure of a feat. Speaking of suck... I think Studious Capacity only applies to one spell total. Paizo pulled a Paizo and went with the worst possible wording they could find.

I don't think Bardic Lore should target specific or even unspecific DC. Mainly because it's a skill that covers the broadest of broad subjects. I'd argue that with Bardic Lore, the DC should be a little more difficult than the base DC. It still has the major upside of being a Recall Knowledge skill that can cover a lot of areas you aren't proficient in. Wide coverage for little investment, but slightly harder DC is a fair trade off imo. If you allowed Bardic Lore to target easier DC for all topics, then it would be way too powerful for skill monkeys to pick up, and it makes all other skills with Recall Knowledge moot.

I regret choosing warrior muse before seeing this video

Finished up the last few minutes. Reflecting back on this super long video, I'm convinced you just don't like Bards. Again, you keep invoking this Jack-of-all-trades motif throughout the video. But...can you point me to an example of what it's missing that other versions had? The only thing it's clearly missing (from Pathfinder 1e and D&D 3.5, at least) is a higher number of initially trained spells. Versatile Performer kinda, sorta makes up for it. But it still feels pretty weak. Investigator handled this better, giving you extra skill increases to be used on your character-defining skills, allowing a player not to feel as boxed in to wasting their regular skill increases on one specific play style. As I type this I think I'm going to house-rule that Bards follow the same extra skill increases as Investigators. But aside from an abundance of skills, does anything specific stick out that's missing?

honestly, I dont like pf2's bard as much as 5e's bard bc the subclasses dont really feel that different and it specifically favours musical performance over any other kind. I was converting an npc from a 5e campaign to a 2e campaign but bc she was a combat focused valor bard, Magus ended up being a better choice for her core class.

Hmm, after watching this Bards don't seem to terribly interesting to me.

Honestly, it says so much about pathfinder 2.0 that this is the worst class in the game. This isn't near the 5e sorcerer in levels of meh (and let's not even speak of rangers).

WOW so bard in 5e and PF2e are garbage nice that no one can get them right

Bards are boring

If I want to play a Bard, I'll stick to 5e. This was just uninspiring.